Hello, hello. Good to be here.
Keith Jopling:I hope you're feeling longevity
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:this long, long. Yeah, longevity is I will say think of in other words around longevity, but long. Yeah, long.
Keith Jopling:Well, it's great to have you on the show. I was trying to get ahold of you guys a while back. So you are about to go on tour on you the this is not a dream. Actually, technically,
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:we have started we played in Glasgow last night, possibly on the tour. But yes, we're about to go on the road for the next five and a half weeks, which is something we haven't done for a long time because of the pandemic, the album that we're touring now, was released almost a year ago, when we didn't get a chance to to to properly so this has we're gonna get that opportunity now. And so we're really pleased about that, as you can imagine. And yeah, and it was really good playing again last night. You know, it's like, say it's been a while. Yeah,
Keith Jopling:cuz this tour has been aborted. But three, or maybe even four times I've lost count. Yeah.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:Because originally, this tour was meant to happen in October 2020, and has been rescheduled three times or whatever. It's crazy thinking that some people these dates we're done, will have bought a ticket for it more than two years ago. I think it originally went on sale, early 2020. So hopefully they haven't lost them. Well, you
Keith Jopling:played Glasgow last night. So a kind of Homecoming gig but imaginatively named SW G three, and you hadn't played there before? So what's it like playing in a new venue in Glasgow?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:It's something we haven't done for a while. Even not just your hometown, you know, there's lots and lots of times we go into or missing, or Yeah, we haven't played that venue before then we realize we have to play you know, plays in Glasgow, but never played before. was really unusual isn't a nice venue, but a bit of a concrete box under the ground, you know, so but it was kind of quite brittleness, and it's a architectural style. Load on stage to load on stage. Children. This show was fun, and it was good. It was really low. Yeah, it was a bit some ringing yours backstage afterwards. But yeah, novelty value and cleaning, new venue.
Keith Jopling:Well, normal, as you said, you're touring this album, endless arcade, which is now a year old. I guess that's unusual, because normally you'd finish a record and then just take it straight out on the road. So I mean, what's the feeling about this record now? I mean, have you already moved on? Because I know you've got new songs out already?
Raymond McGinley, Teenage Fanclub:Sure. I mean, I think you're always moving forward, you know, and so looking to write new songs, but we have been the thing about this record is that we haven't really had the chance to play the songs live. So making the LPS one thing but then touring them and playing them live, but you know, that's a kind of different experience for us. And we've got the opportunity to do that. So, in a way, it's easy got to move on from it. Because me Norman spoke about this in the other guys as well renovate a time when the album came out, but then go on tour with speak to each other and say, I feel really kind of depressed, this is really weird. The album comes out, then you go into, and we've been doing that for 30 years or more. And not doing it felt really weird, but also the going on tour. But let's move on from the album, in a way as well. So we haven't quite arrived at that point yet. But yeah, we'd always think and, you know, after you're finished recording something, you're always thinking of what you might do next,
Keith Jopling:the new song I left the lights on, was that recorded at the same time? Or is that a new song.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:So that was recorded afterwards. And but it was actually written when we were mixing the last record the rock, we make some of the rock fields and worked in some of the rock fields. And I just happen to read the same guy, really nice piano there. This was not the Bohemian Rhapsody piano, but there's been a number of other Queen recordings, and it's a great pianist. So it's always I always like to mess around without putting them down there. And I think it was we were just doing a bit mixing, I just went in the room and sat down for a bit and come up with the idea. So in a way, it's a nice segue from the last album to the next lot of work that we'll do. Even though we are predominantly touring endless arcade, it's nice to have something new to offer as well, people haven't heard.
Keith Jopling:So you wrote that on the piano. Yeah, I just started piano and
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:was messing around and come up with the melody idea and deliver cakes that pretty much at the same time. And then we went back and recorded that there. So it was too so felt quite nice to do that. And it's sort of in a week, you know, we feel as though that kind of ties, the last album to the next thing that we do in a way, you know, it's a kind of little bridge there.
Keith Jopling:Do you think you'll be doing more writing on the piano in the future? I mean, when did you start writing that way?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:You know, I've written other things in the piano roll was, you know, I played piano when I was young, actually. But you know, didn't do many grades. But you know, when I was you know, as a schoolboy, and I've always liked playing and I can play a bit a moment, I'm not particularly proficient on it. But I think sometimes nice as a songwriter to write on a different instrument, you know, on guitar, tend to find yourself going to the same sort of chord sequences, the ways that I tried to run that, as I think, does this to somebody with maybe diction to try different tunings sometimes, or, you know, stick a cap on or sometimes even try and write on a national tuning. And it was just another way of sort of, so it's just another way of writing because you'll maybe come up with different chord sequences. So it's not again, a conscious decision to try and break born piano, which just happened to be that there was a piano there, actually. And that's like, the probably wasn't a guitar there.
Keith Jopling:You're right. I mean, some of my favorite albums have been done that way, like classic guitar based artists, who then decided to write on the piano and just gives you a completely different feel.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:There is a surprising amount of the creative process make music that is based on what is available to you at the time and making use of what's out. You know, someone may say, Oh, why did you decide to go for that sound on the record was the organ or the Hammond organ? Well, it was a nice one in the studio. So we used it. You know, it's not like these things. You know, I'm sure, Norman you I'm thinking, maybe I'll go and write a song on the piano. No, not at all. As a piano, you sit down at it, you start using it. I'll share that with something where like Gary Numan and the CIB, we are me record only ended up with many more go on it because it was one of the studio. Yeah,
Keith Jopling:I think he told us that.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:You can't imagine it without that. Yeah. It's like the Beatles using Mellotron or whatever. You know, it's just because it's the only using ISense kill use it. You know, it doesn't come from a place of predetermination.
Keith Jopling:If what's been used around you as a piano that was once played by Freddie Mercury. I guess you can't Yeah,
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:that's, that's great. I mean, he, of course, has been there for a long, long time. Lots of people have played that piano. And, you know, lots of great music has been written and recorded using an app here. Here's a particularly nice piano. It's a pitch in and it sounds really great, you know, sounds really, really nice. They're just rock fields, a great shoe we love on a rock field, and we've got a really good relationship with the ward family who own and run the studio. I think actually, it was the first residential recording studio in the world, I believe, and Kingsley as an amazing guy build character. And, you know, I don't know whether Kingsley Ward Rockfield has done a proper interview exploring his knowledge of the process of making music because he has for someone that was in a studio with Joe Meek talking about even the technical processes and stuff that his stories are, are amazing. Actually, we always ask him questions about stuff and it may be something he hasn't thought about. Well, when you were in the studio with your MC, would you win in headphones? Only but no, no, we were we just had the door open a little bit. You could hear that from the control room or wherever. You know, you told us a story about how it was when he there's band the Charles Kingsley creation of going to see EMI this whole long conduit is solely going to see EMI and 60s. And he wanted to go and see nor a partner who is a producer. And they were disappointed because they saw this guy called George Martin and saying, oh, yeah, he does the comedy stuff. You know, I think this must be pre Beatles. Yeah. So yeah, yeah. Saying, Oh, yeah, we were really disappointed. Besides, we were in George Martin's office, you know, and I think they didn't use the band. But he said, Could you boys do some recording for us if we send some artists don't say, Yeah, you know, and I think that's kind of how it all got started. But yeah, but Kingsley has some amazing stories, but I think we probably do before we ask him about all the usual things that you said, you know, it's the same thing me Normandin stuff. Sometimes you end up the stuff you forget that you're done, because you end up there's certain things you talked about you spoken about mold before bank Kingsley's got a great if someone could sit them down and ask him about a lot of stuff maybe that you've kind of forgotten about and no one's asked him about before because he's, he's worked with so many people, whether it's like Hawk when he's got so many stories.
Keith Jopling:The ultimate longevity is presented with Bowers and Wilkins. The premium British audio Brown, Bowers and Wilkins loudspeakers are trusted by some of the world's leading recording studios, including Abbey Road. It's a pleasure to have Bowers and Wilkins supporting the show. Didn't I read once you tried to do a gig without guitars
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:with MTL, we had seen eights, I think it was Camden underworld. And we've had electric guitars, acoustic guitars, and no guitars. We thought let's do a gig with no guitars. And we managed to bid that I think we did about five songs. There's no guitars. And we had remember normally we had someone playing the saw that St. Miracle saw. Yeah. And you know, we had like Omni chord. And I think we managed four or five songs and was like, listen, that's as much as we can do. You know, but yeah, we have no,
Keith Jopling:I have five songs. And it's pretty good. Yeah. So what did you enjoy playing last night?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:Pierce personally, the new songs as a musician, wherever they went, the other songs, the older ones became a new ensay though, that doesn't mean we still enjoy playing them, we do enjoy playing them. But you know, with a couple of the newer ones, there are still a couple of things from, you know, not 100% sure of where the chord changes go. And yeah, just I think just the freshness of playing new songs is what I enjoy doing. You know, it's funny sometimes, as a first show the tour yourself in in the mode of, you're kind of thinking about it a little bit as you as you go along, you know, but I felt there wasn't as much of that, as I expected, it felt really comfortable, it felt really good. And
Keith Jopling:the new songs are really great. And I think there's something in the water at the minute because a lot of bands that have been around for a few decades, and a couple of them I've had on the show are just making really, really strong records.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:There is the thing, I think people are more accepting of pull that out as it is, you know, in the way that you know that you haven't been sent off to the old folks home when you're 40. And the way that you were in the past, you know, when I was young and get into music, punk rock thing was happening. And you know, that would be like 19, maybe when the mid to late 70s. So you think but that team, Paul McCartney and The Beatles, and all those people for that generation, they were all in the mid 30s at that point. But they were sort of seen as being past that. And over the hill, whatever. And other forms of art people think that artists develop and get better or hone the craft is the goal of the people don't think the music in that way. So obviously going No, you're good when you're young, and then you can innocent, any of that is gone. But I see another way out. I mean, I'm certainly in terms of being a musician, my better musician than it was, you know, and I think people are thinking about it. Definitely no, they won't dismiss all the music coming from older artists now in a way they may have in the past.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, well, as you say, you know, you get better at the craft. And I mean, creativity ebbs and flows. And I guess the Muse comes and goes, but you know, having that problem at the moment, you know, there's just some beautiful songs on there.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:And I think we do look at it, like, why shouldn't we didn't things know that as good? Or if not better than anything we've done in the past? You know, you know, and that thing is Norman saying, I think people generally are more accepting of the possibility that just because someone's been on the go for over 30 years, they shouldn't still be doing something that's fresh as it were, whatever plus, the other thing, we don't try to pretend to be the people we were in 1989 when the band started, we'd have to been who we are now, writing songs as we are now making music. As as the people that we are no we're not trying to pretend to be those guys in the 20s. I think if you do things and you're not trying to make a pastiche of what you used to be, if it's genuine in inverted commas, if your intent missions ending are the same as your intentions everywhere. And we can do pretty much the way we've always done it. We're certainly not thinking, oh God, we're about to do another album, do we love it? You know, the whole process, the studio we sell feel as excited about it as we have a bed. And we don't approach it as kind of the same approach that football was hard, you just kind of gotten to that moment, and you do what you feel like doing at the time? You know, it's
Keith Jopling:really interesting, you say that, because the thing is, there's always a prevailing narrative around a band that's been around for a while, the narrative is you had a peak, at some point for you guys would have been, you know, Grand Prix songs for Northern Britain. That's just the narrative that you read about. There's a whole bunch of narratives across your audience. I mean, yeah, I'm a fan of your recent albums. You know, if I go to play a teenage fanclub album, it'll be anything from how the since I don't really go back to those albums very often at all. The
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:other thing as well as we have met people, young people, people in their early 20s, and they may only have heard their last album, they don't know anything else about it, as you know. So those narratives are not implanted in their brain. They've just heard that song, you know, and I think a lot younger people know, are, they can get anything they want, whenever they want, and maybe less uptight, but they can some sing, or, you know, so we have met people that like, oh, yeah, I don't know anything about that stuff you did in the 90s. I liked the new record. Yeah, you know, that's always refreshing. But you kind of forget that because I think and yourself, we don't subscribe to the narrative that, as you say, some people may see or they had that peak or whatever. But you know, you're aware of all that. Yeah. And sometimes I think you have to kind of forget that and realize that, as far as the average person likes our band, and likes, what we do, what we've done in the past, you kind of never really meet that average person, because there's people out there that like what you do, and he doesn't really know what they take from it. You know, it's good when you meet people, and they say, the pickup and songs that you maybe wouldn't think people would pick up on them as much. But people in the world outside the band, people have their own take on the albums that you like, and the albums that do not that they don't like, but people will, you know, choose the things that they happen, they want to interact first. And it's not always what you expect. So I think there are lots of different narratives. The problem is, if someone wants to maybe write about the band or something, and they don't have much time or whatever, they may go to some preconceived narrative. But yeah, definitely, I think there's, you know, there are lots of different things that exists in the minds of people that like, all kinds of different music. And some, in some cases, well, it's like, you know, equal things that you might have in the past this messy don't like you go back two years later and find out that you love it.
Keith Jopling:It's the the gift of hindsight and perspective, I guess, as well. Because, you know, when you've made a new record, the other thing is, you're obliged to believe in that record, right. And at the time, your perspective is all focused on that. So you need to give it some time before you look back and go okay, you know, we weren't on it back then. But but we're back on it now. Yeah,
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:I think if you're confident about the music you've made, then it's not difficult to go from that, that music, you know, and I suppose thinking about every band has, you know, the peak years and, you know, it's an all the band, you're never gonna go back there. It's just, it's just not the way it works anyway. And that's good as it should be. contemporary pop culture should be created by young people in a way, you know, there's no way you can sit and relax and we get an older artist, we can just do we want No, we have no expectations. You know, it really we'd love like people to like the music we make we leave on the bay, the music, we make come and see us. But what can happy where we are, you know, we just try and be honest and rates, good songs. That's all that is our main objective, to make good sounding records and have good arrangements. And, you know, and we derive a lot of pleasure from that if other people do that, that's brilliant. But there's no same sort of way that we was thinking about trying to be as big successful band and a big hits, because that has been theirs. That's not gonna happen. And that's fine. That's just the way things are. It's all good. So whenever we make an album, we're never thought, oh, did that last album, people said that one was really good. We'll try and do something as good as that last. Because everything we do, we think we wouldn't let out the door if we didn't think it was any good. But you also think, all year, you know, the next one is going to be different or better or whatever. But we're always just never really tried never to refer back to what we've done before. We always want it to just be who we are, in that moment. And what we do, we don't get reflective on ourself or, you know, because you can disappear down a rabbit hole of self delusion or narcissism or whatever, didn't that we just kind of try and do what's in front of us, you know, satisfy ourselves in that moment. We did the same thing. In that respect since 1989.
Keith Jopling:What about curating setlist for the tour, how do you kind of go through that process when you've got so many albums and so many songs? Well,
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:we're kind of conscious that people will be there to release certain albums and maybe not other ones, they don't make so much or whatever. So we try to release something from each of their records, we definitely trying to focus on the latest record. So we'll clean I think five songs from the new album, something like that. And if we include the left, delete on song, that's six things. So that's maybe a funk diverse set of new new music, and then the rest will choose, you know, from across the top two years or whatever, there's pretty much something from every outfit, and we did try to change it as well, you know, you know, we are aware that people will go simple shoes, but sometimes, the good thing about being around a long team is that we have to lots of songs, you know, to choose from Yeah. And it's nice for us to sometimes to maybe resurrect a song that hasn't been played live for 20 years, there are a couple of things that I would like to play one of them songs in particular that I'd like to do that we've spoken about. We haven't done yet song called middle of the road. Maybe in this tour, we can walk through it in soundcheck so who knows? Yeah, and I think I think in terms of playing new songs, and old songs, I think we've always been lucky with the people have come to see us live, Phillip, people do want to hear as the new stuff. And we're lucky as well that we've never had like one big hit song or anything or one thing that people have said, Oh, that's what the band are all about. And then there's our stuff. You know, we've been quite lucky in the mega things that we've done, and the people have come to see us seem like they, you know, we would sense on stage if he felt like people were getting bored or whatever, you know, that's our thing, as well as things. Sometimes people who come to see alive are surprised how much we observe when we are on stage of the audience and people's facial expressions. And, you know, sometimes sometimes people in audiences don't realize that the people on stage can see them and look at them. Very well. Not very well. And actually, there's something about that moment that you did pick up on some case of someone standing right there in the front, and the kind of yearning and the family shows you feel drawn towards someone.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, let's, let's speed this one up this guy.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:But you know, but I think we would know, if people were not digging it, you know, and I think we'd be lucky that people seem to want to go with whatever we want to do. And I think we're lucky in that respect.
Keith Jopling:You know, when we're there in the audience, we're not thinking that way. Course. Yeah, there's a relationship with the band and the audience every night. And it's different. And that's why you get those really magic Nights is where something happens, right? That did just hasn't happened on the other nights?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:Absolutely. Cuz here's the thing, because obviously, we teams members have an audience as well. So I know that when I'm watching someone, I'm keen to know that the people on stage I think, and I know that that kind of thinking the same things that we're thinking memorizes, looking at people looking at people's reactions, sometimes maybe looking around the room and I find myself doing this, you look around you think that's really unusual, late for an overview. Or whatever, you know, the one thing you do lose into being a musician on stage is that we can all hear all walks in the back room, then I remember being young and going to see bands, I didn't do any of that stuff was something magical, but I went to the clash of other teams. And, you know, you just see them perform there. And it's a real event. But no, and all the stuff that goes into putting that show on and you know, and you can lose a bit the magic as an audience member because I do see bands and I can look at it from a technical viewpoint. There's always something to look at what's going on there. I wonder what's happening to the Cubans who have lost the channel and that scene, or whatever, you know, I remember going to see the who and the only thing we've ever seen the who is fairly recent years can't remember this kind of terrible because a guy Simon said in the monitor as we know because we watch the Simon when we going to see even going to see the her. You're gonna see all the things behind the weather devices coming in as well. And you know, and Roger Daltrey was going crazy, like with his with any monitors. And so it's time and time and I can't hear what I'm doing. And you can see Simon at the side of the stage, you know, and he's been Simon has been berated by Roger Daltrey in front of 10,000 people. And yeah, you know, I'm thinking about how Simon is feeling standard to say the stage you know, because you see it from that other from that other side of the thing you know, so as Norman says it does. Most people in audiences don't see it that way. Yeah, we they see it from the other side, even when we are in the audience,
Keith Jopling:but I mean, Raven, what you said earlier, it's really interesting because bands of longevity usually have one or two big songs and their career is attached to that song and the fans are attached to that song you don't really have that. So you don't have that dilemma to face. No
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:sound things that would pretty much always play a little play. The concepts are in play addressing floors or because something Meet people, or we're not normally the same, but we don't really talk about what we do if you meet someone that doesn't really know, but the band that you meet. So are you in the band? Yeah, that would have had any of your songs. You know, what's your big song? You don't know, I don't think you would know anything. It's kind of lucky in a way that we've done really pretty well. And we do. We've managed to keep the nice thing that we do. We do it all over the world. But we have kind of flown under the radar, radar and most people's consciousness, you know, that guy like the band and no, but the band or your addition to the band really, I don't think but a band that people saying, oh, them, I hate them. Most people probably like them. Who are these
Keith Jopling:people know the name as well. And there's sometimes just not quite sure where to place you. They know you're important. And they know that you're from the 90s. The fans who listen to this will know but then your story is interesting from a number of different perspectives. Right back at the start, it gets interesting already, because you got together in 89. That was an interesting time for music. It's kind of the late 80s is pretty enough. And it was pre grunge, pre Britpop, so there wasn't that whole revival. But there was something going on in Glasgow though wasn't there.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:There was stuff happening in Glasgow, kind of 8586 in terms of say where me and Norman Mayer are met. Lot of people don't use it, there was a club called Splash 1.9 bands, you know, like Sonic use in 1985, or whatever it was a lot of bands came to Glasgow and those things happening with a five a six. But a time we were in a band called The boy hairdressers, the sexy seven. The thing by the time we got to ATA nine, there wasn't a lot happening locally. So it did feel that we were just kind of doing this thing and a bit of a vacuum. It really wasn't like we were part of a scene or anything. So we were just kind of doing this thing that we wanted to do but wasn't there wasn't a lot of context around us. In fact, I'm kind of struggling to remember really what much of what else was happening around us at that time. It wasn't like, you know, a lot of times bands commit have some similar as loads of other bands around. It didn't feel it that at the time, I don't think now I
Keith Jopling:think that's what's interesting about it. I mean, did you have a manifesto, so to speak at the beginning of what you wanted to sound like,
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:our manifesto was more or less we wanted to to an album. And we didn't want you to do our own thing before we interacted with other people's expectations of us. Because we'd been in a band called The boy hairdressers, we didn't really do much the single but we ended up in a band with a band is kind of feels a bit too much like a concept rather than, rather than a reality. We wanted to more than just kind of make an album go on to do stuff in the real world. Before we did our thing, music play that we were talking about, it became like, you know, a band that people would talk about, we want to have done some some fast. So we wanted to we had this crazy idea would make an album, and then we put it out. And then it's like, what made the album here we are, you know, we've got this thing, we don't need to say what the band is gonna be like, what we are going to do is I've already done it, you know, we'll play the songs live. It's that simple. There's no There's no concept, you know, so that that was a manifesto, in a way it was just to kind of do stuff, rather than talk about
Keith Jopling:stuff. And that was a Catholic education. So you made that record. And then he ended up putting that out on paper house, which was an imprint of fire records at the time. And that's when there was a lot of interesting things going on with indie labels and imprints and you know, it was reading Richard King's book, How soon is now and you're, you're kind of quite pivotal in that book, in a sense, because you were one of the bands that was talked about a lot and particularly between, it felt like there was some sort of hotline going on between Glasgow and the US where you had a bit of a buzz.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:Yeah. And also, Catholic education was one of the early records permitted by Matador records. Yeah. The good thing is, well, we got that happening over there kind of at the same time. And that made us look a bit more exotic. There was a certain amount of exotic pneus both ways, you know, and I think we didn't really realize say we went to New York in July 1998. You know, and we were just a bunch of guys Glasgow in the 20s. And I think, I don't think you realize when you're young and you can adult care, that it's actually quite attractive to people. People kind of got interested but we were just gonna concentrate them. Oh, wow. We're in New York and no one we're doing all this stuff. We were just kind of, we had no career plan our been we've made the album. We've done the thing we wanted to do. If we put it out, and then we were, we had achieved success at that moment, because we were in New York. You know, as soon as we put the album out, as soon as we got in the back of the van went to went to move around, wherever some store and car so I'm going to governors in New York, they're driving up and down the East Coast of the US, we had achieved the success that we wanted. And that moment wasn't like we were there. Looking to do something else. We had already arrived at what we wanted to do.
Keith Jopling:Keith here, thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please tell your friends, listen back to the other episodes. And don't forget to subscribe on whatever podcast platform you listen to. Back to the conversation. Is that how Thurston Moore came across you because he then invited you to support Sonic Youth in Europe didn't know
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:we met first on that trip. The reason that came about was the son the guy who ran peoplehood shakers is a guy called Dave Barker. And Dave had, or was in the process of putting on our music of a band called gumball. Who had as a member, a guy called Don flaming who we were introduced to, and we don ended up there producing a bandwagon esque album. And Don was good friends with her. And they were all part of that in a New York scene at the time. Don was also involved in how Japanese Chad fare all those people too. But we met Dustin Sonic gift, probably on that first trip Iceland to New York. Yeah. And we've sort of hung out with them a bit. We'll make you all attenuates. Then we make we our first show proper show in New York was a CBGB put as part of the matador launch night. But the night before that, we put in a little rehearsal space and we made your tango that night. We've been friends with them ever since. You know? Yeah,
Keith Jopling:that's what you were saying Raymond is the exoticism in a way there seem to be a connection between you and those bands. And it was that pre grunge era, it was getting quite exciting. That
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:also partly came through Steven pastels connections with Calvin Johnson and key records and Washington State. Actually, Stephen had released the beat hardening album on his 50 Top label. And I actually, I guess you could call me tour manager, actually, the beat hunting bionics version of the UK was kind of the tour manager that couldn't drive. And I had someone else has done the drive, and I just basically putting them places, you know, to floors to sleep on, you know, but um, there was a connection here, and then Kelvin per the vassal NS records in the US. And so that was one of the initial connections. And of course, the key reference was Washington with the grannies thing subpop was happening. And that's how we kind of met Nirvana and those people for the first time too, so yeah, always kind of direct line between Glasgow, Washington and New York in the middle. And in London was really part of it at that point. And we owe that other than that would see the park, of course, was in London. And that was an important part for us. But, but we had an initial success in the US think of remember that properly. Pretty much.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, it sounds like it. And you know, Kurt Cobain famously was a fan of the Vaseline first, and he was a friend of yours, because they, you know, he played the Vaseline song on their MTV album and all of that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it was an exciting time. So just being there at the very in the very heart of it, in a sense, is quite interesting for me to explore with you, because you then obviously went on to sign with creation records. So there was a, there's a bit of a journey to be had there. But at the same time, you were signed to a major in the US Geffen Records.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:Yeah, yeah, we spoke to, you know, the worst possibility of is to another album of Matador. But they were fake, small at the time. And we weren't people of means or whatever. So if we wanted to keep the band going, we had to get some funds in from somewhere to stay alive and to be able to make another record. And so yeah, we did what we recorded the bandwagon esque album, before actually before we sang to Matador Ed's sang to creation, or we sang together and we made the album first. And we were talking to people as we went along, and we had this whole mad circus going on. That dated back to our first trip to New York in July 1990. With all these us majors got interested in us, and we had a New York lawyer called Rachel Grable, we had all this stuff going on and at the top to lectured on the phone, you know, and I was living in a tower block council house then with my mom and dad and Mary Helen Glasgow tone to my mum, would I ask your lawyer on the phone, you know, you know, so it was all about unreal. And I'd be talking to this guy in New York and his office about these major label deals and at the time, I didn't have enough money to get the train to first go to rehearsals or whatever, we'll really skim ad but with no one Alan McGee, creation and all that because when we were in the boy hairdressers, there was actually some talk about possibly doing something with creation. You before the boy here dresses blob and when you know, Bobby and stuff, and we've been talking to Bobby Gillespie and said, Oh, we're looking for our label, whatever I'm saying, Alan got in touch. Bobby told Alan and Alan got in touch said, I don't think you'd be available. And we all felt really natural, then it was Alan and DEC in creation and stuff. And that was, that was great. But we didn't actually conclude those arrangements until after we made the bandwagon esque album, we have this thing where we like to make the record first, in any kind of deal stuff. Do afterwards, so that no one's got, you know, we're just kind of only thinking about the record. And afterwards someone says, Hey, if you don't like it, don't don't bother, you know, because that's how the band started. We've tried to keep it going that way, as far as possible, so that nobody tries to interfere with your process. Because it's like, if you don't like the record, don't worry about it. We'll pay for it. And then we'll get someone else to put it does like, Yeah,
Keith Jopling:and again, but we're bandwagon asked it seem that the US was the place that took to it first. I mean, it was sort of one of those records that was in every college kids dorm, and and it was doing well on college, radio and all of that, wasn't it?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:No, I think partly DGC was kind of hot at the time, the team Sonic Nirvana had happened. And so I think they it was a lot easier for them to get us places that we may not have been a we, I mean, we did Saturday Night Live, which is getting nuts. That would obviously be part of the deal to get the van on there or whatever, you know. So but it was, it was yeah, it was amazing to do that. But so yeah, we I think we because the label was for bands associated with it got maybe a bit more pressing and made him spin me around mountain of the year. And we always we find that funny because the team Steven Daly, who was the Domino's just was I think the reviews editor at spend. The two we always think Steven can destroy on some of the journalists to pick around. But but maybe like, I don't know, for who knows, but and we yeah, we seem to get we did pretty well with that. Oh,
Keith Jopling:well. I mean, point being it was it was up there, wasn't it with those great albums of that year, it was on all those lists, whether it was number one or top 10? Or for sure,
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:yeah, it was actually at 70, which was great again, you know, unexpected, we literally never have any expectation. So really, really great to be for that to happen for the record. I don't know if that translated to sales as such, you know, don't make that okay, but not compared to the likes of nirvana. We're selling millions of albums. Because Nirvana was selling millions of albums. And there were some people that thought maybe we could do the same, you know, but we didn't, but we didn't have an expectation that suddenly we were going to be because before people would only look at bands. They might sell millions of albums been like Bon Jovi or something not like nirvana or Sonic years or something, you know? Yeah,
Keith Jopling:it was before that whole scene just took off and went huge. But I mean, so you had pretty low expectations anyway, you know, as you say, you would live in the dream already after a Catholic education, because you'd made a record and then you were signed to creation. But then you did see all these bands around you, including later Oasis, of course, just become massive. Was there a feeling that he we should be there? Or was there pressure for labels to try and get you at that level?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:Yeah, no, I think there's not a lot you can do to control that either. Either takes up traction, and people go with it. And the way that through eAssist, that became the thing to them too late, the record was supposed to, you know, and just kind of snowballed from there. But that's, you know, enough people can't predict that. I mean, they make a one of those away for every 100 bands, they say, it's difficult to quantify exactly. What makes a record become massive, you know, or whatever. We tweet, no expectation of that at all. But you know, and so we weren't disappointed, because we didn't expect that we weren't planning to be the biggest band in the world. I think it's, well, we've been quite lucky. Over the years, I've been having a perception of as as underachievers while at the same time, we've actually done okay, you know, it's better, I think, to be thought of as, as a band that should have been much more successful than than the other way around, you know, we just kind of blow their own fire or whatever, around other people's expectations, whether high or low or whatever, we just, it's just this kind of noise around us, you know, we just gotta keep doing our thing. So even you think of the the narrative surrounds as a top male around bands and what records were like and it's even think of the recent The Beatles get back thing, you know, and it was like, yeah, they're all fighting with each other in the studio and it was terrible and it's depressing or whatever. Then you watch to get back thing and you think they are absolutely amazed. And then the liquid are really working together really well, you know, but in terms of success or no success or whatever, we've kind of gone along and you know, I suppose we're still moving slightly boggled that after ambition and 80, it was to put an album, but here we are, suddenly, three years later talking about it, oh, you know, I'm still doing it. And we're just about to, you know, get in the van tomorrow and go off, do it again, thankfully, people still want to come and see us.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, there's a line in the song in our dreams, which is we live the dream, but we never knew. And it's sort of, as you said, No, and you can't really control it.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:You can't at all, you know, it's, it's not up to you, whether you reckon become successful, it's up to a number of different factors, you know, I'm, you know, the stars aligning, or whatever, you know, there's no point worrying about it. If the important thing to do something musician is think of it in a way. I mean, and not even if you ever think about your legacy, but all you're gonna have, at the end of the day, the end of the whole thing, that's even bigger loads of money in the bank, you're gonna be dead at some point. So all you leave behind really is your music, you know, the music that you made notes should always be the most important thing. That's all that matters, really, as a musician, you know, but at least at the end of the day, if you have integrity, or whatever you do, are honest and do the best work that you can, then you'll have that, you know, it
Keith Jopling:sounds like neither of you got attached to the idea of that having that big success, even though people believe that you might get it labels believe you might get it and you saw it around you. Was that the case for the rest of the band? Were you just philosophical about it? Yeah,
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:I mean, we were, there is an element of it. You know, it's not quite the, you know, the John's best thing. It's like, I'm drinking champagne mess world in a hotel room, and someone's saying, where'd it all go wrong? You know, you know, we we just think we've been pretty lucky, you know, compared to the last people that we sell, and we do still spend a bit of time and money making records and masters and we're still happy to do that. And for years, that's been our money, and it started being on my NSL money. Now, we are quite happy to take a bet on ourselves. Yeah, yeah. And we're not really looking for other people to fund a lifestyle or whatever. You know,
Keith Jopling:that must have been a crucial point because you formed your own label, Pima. And I think you must have been one of the very early bands to do that. Because you've had an amazing run yet Grand Prix songs from Northern Britain. And then Howdy, which I think is a really strong album, which was made under a major label because Sony had bought creation at that time. And then after all, that you were sort of still you're a bit high and dry. So was manmade, a reset? How did you go through the process of kind of forming your own label and saying that let's just do it for ourselves?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:Well, well, basically, it was how the album we made that we're on creation. And then towards the end of that process, making the album creation ended. And then we ended up on Columbia, that kind of fell into their lap, because they've taken over but didn't really feel it didn't feel like a home to us. Then after that there was still a kind of contractual obligation album left over, we reached an agreement with them that we would just do a compilation album, called three new songs for that. They, we didn't want to do a whole new album with them. And they didn't necessarily want to pay to make a whole new album with us. So we agreed that we would put that out. And then we would go back to just do a little and sing again. For us. It's like, okay, what makes the new album, I forgot some money and the bank to pay for that. Yeah, let's go to Chicago, make an album, we'll figure out what to do with it afterwards. It's the same kind of naive view that we've taken all along, we have no thought about what's going to come out or where it's going to come in. And then after the end of that, we'll finish the record. I think someone from Ian duck from vital distribution got in touch to say that we're doing this thing is kind of like a label services thing do you want to do we could do this on your own label? And, you know, yeah, sounds really good. And then merge, sent it to merge records in there. And us and we've known the Mac and Laura from superchunk Since 1998 and said, hey, you know, Joy put this record out. And they said, Yeah, and we're still working without records now. And yeah, it was really simple. We, you know, we kind of like to wait to try and find the simple path forward to get to where we need to go.
Keith Jopling:I mean, looking back on it, it was the best decision you could have made because back in the early days of label services and strong albums ever since, I mean, they're every five years so they're not coming around thick and fast.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:We're trying we're trying to speed up but not know, you know. I think it's because that's how our band started. The idea that we just go into the studio or paying for ourselves is no big deal, because that's what that's what we did from the start. I think some bands may ultimate thing of all was the we don't even set a budget, we just decide what we want to go and do and try and find the thing, the money for it. You know, so far it's worked out, it's getting harder to make money out of records, but we're not going to say let's make a cheap album so we can make more money, we don't think that we just think will sell, we want to make whatever point make it and we just kind of make it happen, then we think about the money afterwards.
Keith Jopling:The art of longevity is a team effort. show is produced by the song cibilia. That's me. With project melody. It's audio engineered and edited by audio culture. Our amazing cover up is by the wonderful Mick Clark. And original music for the show, is by Andrew James Johnson. Was there ever a moment from that point on since 2005, from man made where you thought we've had enough of this, we can't quite find a way forward? Or did you just not think about that you just carried on?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:Yes, pretty straightforward. In that sense, it's always been able to find the money to make an album. And I can see that change. And actually, it's, you know, the only way to bond in any way will lend this if we feel that any one of us feels that we don't want to do any more. We haven't got any ideas. If we make an album, I think we'd be honest with ourselves. If we do some recording, and we don't think it's up to scratch, we will we will put it out, you know, the other we will look at the band as it's only a band, this is just a thing that we do we get together make songs, we put them out. There's this thing, you know, we don't really think that far ahead. Really, I suppose. Do we just kind of Yeah. And I think sometimes it's Well, someone makes an announcement, or the band has ended. And it's part of you think, well, so? Yeah. Are the Beatles, you know, yeah, they have no in bands in the million people out there making records. It's not necessarily what the world needs, you know, but it's what we need to do we feel a need to do this thing. This is, for whatever reason, this thing we do that we feel this kind of need to do this. But if we stop feeling that need to do it, or feeling like a plate, we feel excited about doing it. We're just kind of wouldn't do it, we probably wouldn't make any big announcement about it just like, What do you think we'll make another record? And then a few years will go by to say now they probably one?
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I guess one of the secrets of longevity, if it's a secret, or a lesson learned is just is not to get attached to the industry metrics and markers of success, you know, keep on doing it, because you enjoy doing it. But also, you've got a fan base, who enjoy what you do. And you've got that, right. So I guess every time you've made a record, you are touring it for a long time in many, many countries, and the fans are out there.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:I think another aspect of longevity is it's about the personalities, isn't that, you know, it's Yep, depending on the feature, I think you can be around for a long time with it hadn't been hadn't sunk in and should have been sympathetic, personality wise, or whatever. We've been lucky in that sense, you know, humbly been tantrums or whatever in the band, or wherever we get one play. Well,
Keith Jopling:it feels like it because a lot of bands do get to a place as well, where the relationship is very businesslike.
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:That would not be as we've never, we're never going to do that. That's not going to happen. You know, and we've never, I mean, good luck to them as Lysa bands, put out a couple of albums and split up and 25 years later, they get back together again, no, because they can make some money or whatever. You know, I wouldn't criticize anyone for that. But that's we've never split up or whatever is felt, even though people from the outside looking and thinking I'd spent five years it's been an album, surely they went away. And then the band kind of stopped or whatever. But it doesn't really kind of felt like a continuous thing for us, you know, but again, we we just kind of live by our own expectations of what we want to do. And we're just success for us this thing can be in a rehearsal room or in a studio working on something to be saying, Yes, this feels really good. That was really good. And it's that moment of feeling that fulfillment of doing something musically. You know, we're kind of together business enough to get the shutdown that we need to do. You just do it in the background, that's not a focus for us. You know, we just do that stuff to get it out of the way so we can do the thing that we want to do is like feeling good that being those people four or five people in a room playing something not seeing and talking about and feeling like you're creating something that has some kind of wash that maybe wash it and where the rest of the world the other stuff beyond that it's just, it's like washing the dishes or something. This is something you have to do. Where
Keith Jopling:you've been really lucky as you've got all the time in the world to make those albums since man made as I said, they're the album's I've enjoyed they're always strong so you can take your time making them where you know there's a pressure on bands to just keep making music constantly. and putting stuff out there constantly in case they're forgotten about. You've obviously got beyond that point. There's a resurgence of guitar bands. Now many of them would look at teenage fanclub and see you as role models, musically and for the way you've done things. What do you say to them? What do you pass on?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:The only advice I would give to anyone is just do what you feel is right. That will be right. You know, do your own thing, be yourself, I've never been one for single, yeah, you know, you need you should really think about telling people what to do musically. Just do what comes naturally, do what feels like, you'll be happy, at least you'll be happy. Even if it's not as successful, you'll be happy that point you then there's something that you like, or whatever, you know, those are people that would give people advice, and they say, Don't you want to be successful? And it's like, no, we do want to be successful. That's why I'm saying we're not gonna do that claps and you're asking us to do, because we know better. We know better than you about what constitutes success for us. But also, this was your setting on do what you want to do, what makes you feel great to do but also don't do anything? That doesn't feel right. Yeah, I think our role as F instinctively, it feels you shouldn't do it, trust your instincts, and don't do something. Because there's the idea that, Oh, no other people will advise you to do things. And by listening to their advice, you will be successful, in spite of your instinctive reaction that it's wrong. Those are people that ask people to do things, if it doesn't work for you, you'll just move on to another band. But lots of people out there that think that genius is better or not, but I think as a band, as an artist, or whatever, if you do some some, in spite of instinctively, it feels wrong. That's failure, right there, and you've created it yourself. You know, if you listen to somebody else telling you what to do, and you go along with it, in spite of feeling that it's wrong, then you're failed. But you've kind of did it to yourself. You know, as I'd like people saying, Oh, my manager wanted me to do that. So I did that and all that. So well, you don't have to do people tell you what to do. And if you go along with what someone else says to do, it's your own failure. Don't blame anyone else for it. You know, from the
Keith Jopling:very beginning, you took your influences, and you kind of merge them into something that was your sound. I mean, over recent years, we've got into streaming and, and there's a relationship between teenage fanclub and a lot of modern bands. I mean, where do you take your influences from? Now? Do you think all around
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:the environment music that you hear conversations that you have things that you read in the newspapers, or were blessed? Pretty much, you know, the simplicity also, the one thing I would say, though, is that when you're young, young bands out there, some of the influences from the start, you know, no one arrives fully formed? You know, that's been, when we started, we were first out, we were listening to exhale, and Main Street, and the Sonic Youth will make love as well. And, you know, and then I suppose we get to sort of combine those things, your own kind of version of those, and then eventually, you find out what you're good at. And that becomes your thing, you know, but in terms of musical insufficiency, you know, just Yeah, life and the environment. Yeah. So I guess, I think as well, in terms of inspiration, if you're in terms of coming up with songs and stuff, you just have to give yourself the space to be self indulgent. You shouldn't have to go looking for inspiration is kind of already and yet, you know, you just have to set them play guitar, I play piano or mess around. They are musically it's everything you've ever had in your life.
Keith Jopling:You're about to go on tour. It's been a long time. Since you did that. Good to see you in in London at the Union chapel. Have you played there before? By the way? No, we
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:haven't. No, no. Yeah.
Keith Jopling:Is that going to be deliberately more mellow, when you get there or you're not going to change the set for the venue, we
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:might need to see what the acoustics are like accent check. You know, as far as as far as going to place you might be able to put in a couple extra songs of a certain kind of way that we're probably want to think about it too much. You know, I think there's quite a reverb Bay. Nas, obviously, Chuck ChessBase because that sucks, you know. So we'll see how it goes.
Keith Jopling:Can I put a bid in for Come with me?
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:We're still there with Sal to work that one out properly. But yeah, we'll see what we can do. Yeah, why not? Yeah.
Keith Jopling:It would sound beautiful there. That's for sure. Well, look, what's next beyond the tour, what is next for teenage fanclub? Well,
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:the coordinate you know, we'll look to make new music, you know, but right now, we're focused on the tour. Obviously, this is exciting for us to go and do that again. But yeah, one thing leads into another, you go on tour, and then you look into they want to do more music as soon. You know, we talked earlier about an album every five years that has been we've done that for quite a number of years. We want to you know, do something about that and we'd like to make new music and have that soon because that also allows us to more often you know, and legacy this is what we do know. Whilst it was it has been more Very, more acutely aware of that. And also the older you get, you just sort of want to make the most of the time that you have, I'm not planning to become deceased anytime soon. But you know, you want to, you know, just say, Okay, well listen, you know, it's like, I'm going to have the opportunity to go out and play, music are very fortunate to be able to do that. So you may as well make the most of that.
Keith Jopling:Well, I mean, to your point, though, longevity and mortality are connected, right, and it is about enjoying every day. And I think, you know, just in recent times, where we've lost really, really key musicians, and there's been a lot of sadness in the world, that is important. And it's important for you to keep doing it for your fan base as well. Yeah,
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:because we, I mean, you know, not to dwell on the concept of death, but is something that we normally talk about, I said, a second enjoy it, because we're alive, we can't do my bed, you know, we are aware of mortality, you do have to remember that you're gonna die, because it's easy to forget. It's part of the human experience that you can have, you know, whether humans are the only species that are aware of their own mortality, but it's also part of the human experience to try to not think about it too much.
Keith Jopling:I think musicians and artists, especially though, because it's partly your job to remind the rest of us, you know, I really do feel that way. And that's why we come to shows when we put records on the
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:record since that recording, you know, yeah, of course, at a moment, you're recording a moment in time. When you hear music from the past. You can sort of usually know where you were when that music was being made. That establishes a big part of music.
Keith Jopling:Yeah. And you've made classic records. You know, you've been really really important to musics culture. And I think we're very grateful for that and glad to see you're still around and thriving and looking forward to carrying on so it's been absolutely fabulous to talk with you. And good luck with the tour. We'll see you in London. And whatever you do next. Look forward to hearing it. Thanks a lot. Thank
Norman Blake, Teenage Fanclub:you. Thank you,
Keith Jopling:guys.