Thank you, Keith.
Keith Jopling:How are you Mike and whereabouts are you?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I'm recovering from about of COVID about three weeks ago and I still get a cough. And I mean, I'm at home in Dublin.
Keith Jopling:You just did Glastonbury though last weekend, so will you still recovering?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:No, no, I was fine by last week it was but three weeks ago.
Keith Jopling:All right. So, you played Glasgow, you headlined the acoustic stage there. 2022. I think you've been there many, many times before, haven't
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:you? My 11th Glastonbury. Yeah.
Keith Jopling:So how was this performance? How did it go down? It was great
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:with the luck of the draw put us plan at the same time as Mica. So, but you know, there must have been probably 30 or 40 performances going on in the festival at that time. 930 on the Saturday night, so we were only one of many eights, hoping that we would get full hosts, despite markers best efforts. And I'm pleased to say we did was great. Absolutely great.
Keith Jopling:Did you see markers performance?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Now I didn't someone the band ran over after we finished and caught the last half hour. Yeah,
Keith Jopling:try and catch it on iPlayer. It's interesting, you know, it didn't compromise for the first hour or so. You mean, he
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:played his his more recent songs as well
Keith Jopling:played his more recent songs as well, a couple of obscure things that he pulled back from the wings days. But in doing that, I think he made the crowd appreciate him for doing that anyway. But then, of course, the moment of euphoria just arrived even it was even bigger when it arrived when he did you know, Beatles stuff. So you've done it 11 times before, there's been quite a lot of changes and water under the bridge since Glasgow closed down for two years. How did you pick your setlist for this year?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, I know the acoustic stage, this is our fourth or fifth time at the acoustic stage. So I know what it's going to be like. And I know the audience was easy to select the songs.
Keith Jopling:I haven't seen it because you can't I don't think they put it on iPlayer did they never
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:film or broadcast the acoustic stage? No. Is there a reason for Nadina I think is maybe maybe not sexy enough for them. I think perhaps because it's generally older artists. It's not like the pyramid stage where you get a mix of old artists like McCartney, and also all the latest artists is very much mature artists in the acoustic stage. It's just not that interesting for the BBC. They used to film it when Channel Four did Glastonbury 20 years ago, we played the Pyramid Stage in our last visit, and that was on the iPlayer. That was all filmed. Here's the stages. If you weren't at the festival, you wouldn't even know the acoustic stage existed.
Keith Jopling:I read somewhere when you played the Pyramid Stage. You said it played you? I thought that was that was a cool idea. I like that.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, it's my sense. When I've played that stage, I get a sense that unique quality of the event and perhaps the history of the stage, because it's the same enclosure that has held all these events. You know, Radiohead famous performers in in 1997 happened under the same piece of metal frame, The Rolling Stones in 2013, and so on, boy in 2000, whatever it was. And there's something about it, it feels like all those events have been sort of held in the space. And when I walk out on that stage, I can feel it. something extra that that isn't there at other venues and other stages, is working through the artists. Yeah,
Keith Jopling:it's a nice idea channeling that. And I guess when you've got a bit of experience under your belt, you've been going for a while you can channel that in a really positive way. It's not going to rattle your nerves because I'm thinking of someone like Sam fender, playing there this year. And the first time he's been on a stage like that, I mean, to think that you you're in the same shoes, as all those classic artists that have gone before is probably quite overwhelming. But if you know what you're doing, you know, it's probably a really good way of channeling inspiration. Yeah,
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:well, I remember my first time in the Pyramid Stage in 1984. That was very nerve wracking, and it was the biggest audience we'd ever played to. But but then we came back a couple of years later. It was the stage was like an old friend. There's a warmth there.
Keith Jopling:Well, you mentioned that Radiohead performance in Glastonbury fair, the song that you wrote leading up to this class, though, I thought that was nice. It seemed to capture the spirit of the way that you've been writing quite a few songs in recent years, which is autobiographical. Do you know you seem to be telling your story very literal in a very literal sense, you know, recounting memories and, and even name checking people that you know, have been part of your life? Is that something that's just come on in recent years?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I don't know why I'd have to think back through all my old records and see where it started to happen. Well, there's a couple of tracks on on where that alarm where the action is in 2019 that's got Ladbroke Grove symphony and London MC.
Keith Jopling:And Dennis Hopper, as well, as some of those characters have recurred in your songs from time to time, but you do seem to be reflecting on on your life through song in many ways.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Yeah, maybe so and you see events that that were Monday Even when they were happening in 1982, seen through the prism of, of almost 40 years later, they take on a new, a new dimension, because the mask is interesting. The past is so different. It's interesting. And when I was walking around Ladbroke Grove in 1982, to me, it was It wasn't what it had been six years before. But now when I look back, and I think my God, it was an amazing time. And for me as a young man, it was absolutely brilliant to be there. And so it bears writing about and so on.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, there's something about a place. I mean, as we were just talking about with the Pyramid Stage, where there's a, you know, some places channel that consistency and, and others just keep on changing. We'll come away from Glastonbury at that in a minute, but did 1986 come back to your to your mind because that's gone down in folklore. Glastonbury folklore has been one of the great performances, the you know, it must feel good to have that on do. That was
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:our best one. Yeah. Just the right moment for us.
Keith Jopling:You know, I was watching that again, before the last time we were meant to have a chat. And I noticed that the dedication be my enemy to Ronald Reagan. And I was kind of thinking, Well, some things do change, some things stay the same. So there's always a kind of president or a UK pm for you to rail against. So let's talk about all souls Hill. It's been out for a while. I mean, you're going through a prolific stage as well, when you put a record out there. How does it last for you? Or have you kind of moved on to the next thing?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, all sorts Hill for me is the record I made a year ago, was deep in it a year ago, working on the songs every day, overdub, a mixing. That was my summer last year. And since then, I've been working on on different things. And then it gets released. And I have to sort of go back to it and focus on it again, even though I've moved past it. And that's just my job. It's alright. I don't mind doing that. But but it's not so exciting for me as it was a year ago. You're
Keith Jopling:obviously going to play it live. And it's exciting for the fans. So how do you keep those songs interesting for you? I mean, I guess playing them live.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:They're still sufficiently new that it's interesting live. Of course, all this album hasn't got many that work live. Unusually for me, I didn't write all the music on this record. Usually I write songs on guitar or piano, and then I take them to the band. But in this record, I don't think I wrote any of the music. I wrote the top line melodies. And if I overdubbed an instrument myself, I made that up, but I didn't actually write the chord sequences or the structures of the songs. They were collaborations. Before we went and played our first shows this summer, I had to learn the songs. I do listen to the record and workouts like like working at someone else's sophomore.
Keith Jopling:Within Simon dine that wrote the songs. He
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:did the music on six of them. Another collaborator did the music on another one was and to recover versions.
Keith Jopling:How did the collaboration with Simon come about?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:He heard an interview that I did on Soho radio with Pete puffiness about five years ago. And he said Pete an email saying he liked the interview and he liked worboys music. He liked the way that I made records and so I got in touch with him and we ended up we've done a lot of collaborations actually done maybe a dozen tracks now he's he worked on five tracks of what will be the next war boys album as well.
Keith Jopling:The ultimate longevity is presented with Bowers and Wilkins of premium British audio Brown, Bowers and Wilkins loudspeakers are trusted by some of the world's leading recording studios, including Abbey Road. It's a pleasure to have Bowers and Wilkins supporting the show. So wanted to ask you about the cover version of the Robbie Robertson track once were brothers because you wrote new lyrics for that. I mean, did Robbie give you his whole spiel about you know, casting his songs as filmed? Did he tell you about that? No.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:He just said okay.
Keith Jopling:So in one of these interviews, I did a recent one with Bruce Hornsby, because he covered a Robbie track as well. He said Robbie sort of said to me, I like to think of my songs as films and then cast who might play on them so I guess he cast Mike Skye that was called to cast you on that song?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Wow, can I cast myself really? We recorded it with with the Larry changes and then sent it to Robbie to ask his permission,
Keith Jopling:or dreams of our song.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I saw it in the documentary of the same name, the great band documentary that Robbie did. And I fell in love with its core essential ages tennis core is in my head for days and weeks. And when I when I revisited the song I bought Robbie's album cinematic so that I could listen to the song again and When I listened to a wished he'd written more lyrics, I wished he'd said more. Especially when he got to the end of the song. He did that beautiful middle eight. We already do today between the north and south. And, and when it came to the end of that, that Middle East section, instead of going into what I was expecting was going to be the last payoff, verse, the emotional Touchstone verse, He went back to the chorus, and it was all over. It was still very beautiful, but But I thought, Oh my God, If only he'd written that extra verse, and I found the words coming in, I wrote the verse. And then I went back and I fiddled around with some of the earlier words as well, and recorded it with one of my band members. And we didn't think for a moment that Robbie's gonna say, Yes, it was really just an exercise. But he didn't say yes, very
Keith Jopling:cool. Now, all souls Hill came off the back of a trilogy of albums. And again, these were recorded in quite close proximity. You've been quite prolific in recent years. 2017 out of all this blue 2019 is where the action is. 2020 is good luck seeker. So they were kind of seen as a trilogy, you move along in phases and your fans kind of might have been expecting, okay, what's the next phase? Where does all souls hell fit into that? Because it's not the album you expected to make yourself? In some ways?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:That's right. Well, all sorts Hill was an accidental album that came out of the Simon Dane collaborations Simon has sent me he sends me these zipped folders of 10 or 20, instrumentals are all very short. And I listened to them. And about one or two out of every set speaks to me and says, Okay, you can write lyrics to this, you know, I hear the lyrics begin to deform in my mind, and I started working on it. And so so suddenly, the only Simon collaborations died happening. And, and I had another album half finished, which, which I'm still working on now. And I spoke to my manager, Danny, and we decided to come with the Simon album first, just because it was going to be ready more quickly. So it wasn't the album that I was expecting, that was going to change into a new phase. In a way it really also ZIL is a fourth album of the same of the same style, I think it feels like
Keith Jopling:it was written in the same way even though you know with some of it was written by Simon because it sounds quite fresh, you're using beats differently. These days, you're bringing in quite a lot of spoken word lyric, which I find is interesting. What's behind that.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I really love working with spoken words. I've always loved it. I did it a couple of times, many years ago. And it's come to the fore for me as a creative edge in recent years. Good luck seeker. I think there's seven spoken word tracks. The whole second half of the album is one of this one in my dreams. There was one on where the action is. Now I just love working with spoken word. I can do it and I enjoy doing it.
Keith Jopling:You know, it's very on trend musically at the moment. Have you realized that now? Well, a whole crop of modern bands, including, I mean, there's bands like wet Lake who were on at Glastonbury as well, who were kind of a bit of a boss band at the moment that's, you know, two young women just just kind of doing a post punk thing. Dry cleaning another one yard act another one. I mean, they all kind of have the moment, but a good bands. But yeah, with the spoken word thing going on. You're on a trend at the minute. But you'd obviously did it in a vacuum. But it's amazing how these things kind of come around, I think. So the other thing that I wanted to talk to you about is locking into a groove, which is something I think the water boys do incredibly well. And recently you know examples of that would be a my wanderings in the weary land. From Good luck seeker, which I know when you play live, you kind of extend that groove that outro groove out. Where does that come from? Is that something that you again, do intentionally or do you kind of find a groove and go okay, let's just play this on for for a few more bars.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, I do like the hypnotic aspect of music, but I like when a groove goes on. For a long time. I like to live in a groove. I'm forever saying to the musicians stop changing it. We used to do a long improv at the end if we would do Prince's Purple Rain. And it was beautiful note the fiddle and as don't change it, hold it. The audience wants you to hold it, hold it for 32 bars, eight times round. And he'd always want to change it after four and that'd be playing not it's the climax, hold it there. Keep us in a high place. So I'm always asking the musicians to slow down the rate of change to keep it there.
Keith Jopling:You have directed that musically because that's I think that's that As we're all tempted to keep changing things up, we're kind of afraid to repeat the same thing as a kind of mantra, it taps into an ancient feeling, you know, yeah, there are ways
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:of changing while maintaining the dynamic as well, that morning came too soon, the guitar solo at the end of that is extended is with three minutes long. There's a lot of movement in the guitar solo, but the intensity never changes. And I never take it to a place in the guitar. So where I completely change the intensity changes are quite methodical, the great influence for me in that music is Marquis Moon by television with the long five minute guitar solo and the way that Tamburlaine orchestrates the build. And often when I've got musicians in the band, they think that to get to a climax, you go to a higher note, but I shouldn't, or Verlin proved a marquee moon that you build it up. And then if you flip it down an octave into maybe more of a chordal pattern that has the effect of actually building it up and taking us closer to CLI myself. So I learned from masters like him are from the Velvet Underground, with of underground are absolute masters of the hell dynamic. What goes on on the 1969 live album, where do they hold it for about six minutes, this is not even a lead instrument, it's just chords. And they hold the whole the place. And I always think it's like sex, groove and sex and you stay there. And you don't come too soon. You can come too soon. Yeah,
Keith Jopling:and it's so rare on records these days, but you can do it live. That's the place where you know, the audience's there, it's locked in. But they I mean, they kind of experience it, I think as a form of sort of transcendence, which is, which is great. You can't do it on record these days. Going back to also selling the trilogy before it's as I say, your your songs sound really fresh these days, and you've been in this game for for decades. So is your style of writing change to kind of create that because I know you've kind of recently or maybe not recently, but when you mastered GarageBand, you can kind of start putting beats down and things like that. Does that change the way you write?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, it all helps. Yeah, having a recording studio at home effectively, does change things and being able to correspond with musicians and have them send me emails of of what they're working on. Yeah, I just I still love being in a room and playing with people as well. Of course. For me, a big moment was in 2015, when I had three Americans in my band had brother Paul on keyboards. Zach Aaron's from from Austin on guitar, and David hood, from Muscle Shoals and bass and David played on all his classic Muscle Shoals records in the 60s and 70s. And Zach was a student of the 60s, southern soul music. Paul from Memphis, played with Al Green and Isaac Hayes and on Peebles. So I have these three people with direct experience of working with that, that form of music in my band, and I found that particularly inspiring, and it, it caused a big bang for me of songwriting, that, that still reverberating. And there was a period in the summer of 2015, when I was writing a song a day. And it was like when I was a teenager, he said, these, these were better songs like morning came too soon out of all his blue London make every day is a different song, I'd be in the restaurant and an idea would hit it right, you don't have to get home fast. And it's not quite as fast as that No, although it's still it's still carrying on. But that was incredibly exciting. And I put it down to the thrill of having these authentic, firsthand American musicians in my band, feeding all this inspiration and lore, musical lore into The Waterboy sound. Brother Paul is still with us. The other two moved on Zach is now a venue manager in Austin and David hood, still playing but stop touring because of his age. But the influence of the left is still there.
Keith Jopling:I wanted to come on to the commercial setup these days, because you've been through the wringer the whole ups and downs of you know, being signed to labels being you know, independent being, you know, pushed as you know, the next big thing in the early days even you know, being a pop star even in those days, what, what have you kind of settled into because you're obviously, you know, as we said, you're in a prolific creative period. What's the commercial setup these days?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:What's the commercial the warboys is a long time act is very hard for us. It's very hard to break through on radio, especially because our past works against us. We no longer and haven't had for many decades, the the allure of newness, which is such a great assets in the music business. I
Keith Jopling:don't know catalogue music has kind of seen a resurgence as well, right? I mean, I think it is, is incredible these days, because you right? I mean, the industry has always been attached to the next new thing or the next big thing. But it sits alongside a lot of bands that have are in the long game and and are just hitting new creative peaks. It does feel like the industry accommodates that in some way. And I just, I'm intrigued from the artists perspective, whether you feel it's better these days than it was in the old days when you had to be funneled through a system and, you know, selected by a label and pushed out to an audience. Well,
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:the warboys is a is an individual case, really, I had my battles with record companies back in the 80s, and won the right to make the records I wanted when I was still in my 20s. And I've never, I've never gone back from that. So I made the records I want anyway, I think the music tells me what to do. That's my boss, and I follow the musical instructions. If I veer from that I make make bad records. So I try and follow the music and keep it fresh. And it does. And, as you say is nice, nice to be on trend with the spoken word is a bit like like I've observed Neil Young, he's much better known that the word boys which is very, very useful for him, but I noticed also that he goes in and out of being on trend in the early 90s. He was he was with the grunge, the grunge branded, chimed with his Crazy Horse record. And he even made an album with peril jobs. So that was a good time for Neil. And then he goes out of fashion. And he comes back in and he has a and I think the word boys are like that will do whatever, whatever the music is suggesting or wherever whatever phase the music is going through. And if it chimes with public tastes, that's great. If it doesn't Tough luck.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I guess you did start to do that from the early days when you kind of set a new course with fishermen to blues.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Even before that, on this is the sea. That was the first record I had control over. And I hired a manager, an American chap called Gary CareFirst. To keep the label at bay. That was his brief, keep getting them out the studio wanted to make and I never stopped after that.
Keith Jopling:Keith here, thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please tell your friends, listen back to the other episodes. And don't forget to subscribe on whatever podcast platform back to the conversation. Well, let's just get into these the phases if you like, because I'm interested in whether you look back and you see it like that. So you know, the first three albums were kind of seen as this big music phase, which you know, was was all about the production and the wall of sound and all of that. And then you changed it up a bit with fisherman's blues with you know, bringing in the acoustic and when you look back at do you accept that as being Yeah, okay, was there's a clear phasing to my career or it just sort of came up at the time you did what you felt was right. Well, it's both
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I did what I felt was right, and this is a clear change. It slowly blurred because there's plenty acoustic guitar on the first three albums sounds like C or acoustic anyway based on the acoustic guitar. So I was already working with that sort of troubadour model of writing singing songs on acoustic guitar. In those early records is also a strong element of, of traditional instruments, piano saxophone, I wasn't hardly using synthesizers at all, we'd call Wallander in a band. And he was fantastic. At Oregon, I prefer to when he would play Oregon or piano, he was always wanting to play synth and everything, and as not on Blair, Oregon, in this one place. And then, when Steve Wickham joined and brought the fiddle into the band that enabled us to go much deeper into the acoustic and roots music, which coincided with my my listening at the time. So yes, there's a clear change there.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, again, I think it's something that a lot of bands these days aspire to, but you've got to be, it's actually hard one to say, because if you look at I know, people like Bowie and Dylan have been an inspiration in that sense for you as well, because they've changed and they've been through those remarkable phases. It's interesting to kind of think, well, does that give you the longevity because you're brave enough or inspired enough to change and you bring the audience with you or you don't? Or do you earn that right through longevity? Because when bands try it these days, I mean, I'm, you know, Kanye West just tried to just put out a downside and it's been absolutely pounded. knows both the fans and the critics are going like What are you playing? It feels like, you know, musicians are much more of a lane these days.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, I grew up listening to The Beatles, and every album was different. It was an incredible evolution, I suppose I was lucky to grow up in the 60s, where music as a whole was evolving at that incredible depths and rate. So to me, it's natural that it changes that was always my plan with the warboys. But I think there are two two kinds of changes as an organic change, where it's coming from the inspiration or the fascination. And then there's a contrived change. I see Madonna as an artist who perfected the art of the contrived change, the image changes, some of the collaborators change, but actually, the records don't really change. And, boy, he was an anomaly because his changes were contrived. They were thought out. And yet, most of them were inspirational as well, Bill and Neil Young, and the people who were organic, the change comes from inside is making the suggestion. And I would be like that. Now
Keith Jopling:that's interesting, have it be interesting to kind of go back and see who has made those types of changes work. But again, yeah, it's a difficult thing to do these days. So there's another kind of thing that I've been finding through these conversations about longevity, and that is to see lineup changes as being potentially transformational, or just embracing them as part of the band's evolution. And I think The Waterboy is, is the most extreme version of anyone that I've looked at or spoken with here, because I think you counted yourself, you've had 70 members, actually
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:over 80
Keith Jopling:that have come and gone and sometimes come back. And I think you said, you know, Santana and the fall of the two behind you, but I mean, nowhere near 80, even below so what's the art of kind of managing that? I guess there's aspect to collaborating well, so there's an obviously a knack to how you bring people on board and and start to work with them, but also how you get over the loss once somebody's decided to move on.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:While I'm a bandleader, and it's my job to make the combination of members work well, that's part of my job. And, and I've worked with so many musicians have so much experience with so many tricks for dealing with different kinds of musicians, conch versus trained rock versus fork, I can blend them all if they're in the band. At the same time, I can deal with difficult personalities, easy personalities, just just because so much experience it's, it's actually good fun. Having a good challenge in a band lineup got a challenge going on just now because for the first time in many years, we've two keyboard players, and they're both incredibly creative. Both great collaborators of mine are write songs with both of them. And yet, for the first time, this summer, we're going out with both of them onstage. So the challenge is to integrate the musically for them to be aware of what each other is playing to respond accordingly. And it's interesting because the one who has been there longer Brother Paul, is be an unbroken member, site member of the band and an unbroken tendency for about seven or eight years. He's got all his parts fixed. He's used to play the songs he plays in a certain way. But I'm encouraging him. Okay, now, James, on the other side, is there just plan, be flexible in what you're playing, don't stick to your parts play different because he's playing really good fun. I'm really enjoying it, as
Keith Jopling:you say, kind of seeing your role as a band leader. When did that first strike you? Yours? Essentially, The Waterboy? Is is is Mike Scott, in a way?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, I don't agree with that. Because it wouldn't be it wouldn't be the same without the musicians and I did work under the name Mike Scott for a few years didn't enjoy it at all. I even had a band under the name Mike Scott and Mike Scott solo band that are what you would call them. And really it's much more fun when the when they're the water boys and they have a certain status and and there is something about a musician who plays in a particular way that is a waterboy. And so really, it's an extra bonus.
Keith Jopling:So is that part of your kind of discussion where people like James, to kind of take on a bit of that water boys? Listen, so never.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:It's an unspoken magic. As much as can be unspoken will be. That's part of my style as a bandleader. I will, I will nudge musicians in a certain direction. But if I can do it without saying anything I will.
Keith Jopling:Okay, so it's unspoken, but is it literally just is there a language to it? How do you kind of communicate what you want particularly to new members of the band,
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:by the way I play Oh, yeah, the information is all in my rhythm guitar playing, or in the temple. We have a new drummer, he's been with us for nine months now, Amon. And that's another great challenge working with a young drummer, he's he's 30, full of energy full of talent. And I'm drawing him out of his old habits. I'm encouraging him, don't let the Fill where the listener expects you to play the fill, don't play short fill, play along fill, let the Fill go over the downbeat into the first for the next bar, put a fill where play for 20 split a film that lasts for 20 seconds and so on and trying to get into to think in a different musical way.
Keith Jopling:I mean, there must be an excitement, then because your fans are being coming to see you. You know that extremely low become deceived for many years through many lineups, when you have a new lineup or a new, a new version of The Waterboy is to kind of show show off, that must be a thrilling thing.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I hope so. I know that some fans want it to always be the same as well. But of course, they're always gonna be disappointed with the warboys, if that's the case.
Keith Jopling:Well, another theme of longevity is is whether there are big songs in the picture. Or not sometimes, but more often than not, there's a big song in the picture. And with the water boys, of course, it looms very large. I'm just interested in your relationship with the whole of the moon these days, and how you keep that a fresh thing.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Fortunately, for me, the whole of the Moon is a song that never lets me down in life, it's really great to play some of the songs from now either or bastards to play, like the big music, for example, I haven't played it live since about 1985. Because it's just so difficult to play, it's unrewarding hold of the moon, and on the other hand, is a thrill to play. And not just because of the audience's recognition, but because musically it's got legs. So I like to play it so lucky for me. I
Keith Jopling:think it resonates so much because we've all had that Brilliant Friend, at some time in our lives, who seems to shine, you know, so much brighter than we do. Another was no specific inspiration around it. But what made you kind of focus in on that as a song subject?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I don't know. Just got the idea from seeing the moon in the sky. I think I think yes, we all have known those people. Or we can we can think of archetypes of that type like Jimi Hendrix has them. And but I think we've all known the experience of change of perspective as well. You know that the examples that are in the song, I side, but you swooned, we've all had experiences where actually we swooned or something hit us so hard. We swooned. So we all have experience of the difference, the growth that's that's in the song. Okay, so
Keith Jopling:I've got one more thing to say about the whole of the moon, because we're in the age of where songs like that kind of become super hits. So that's the one you know, if you look at the water boys, on streaming platforms, it's like 100 million streams. And those songs have become bigger than ever. They're reaching kind of younger audiences than ever, when you play it and you see kind of people's reaction to it. I mean, how do you feel about kind of reaching new generations with with a song like that and what it means to them having written it so long ago.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I don't really think of it as long as I just think of it as a song I wrote, time isn't really part of the equation for me. And I'm really happy that people like it. I'm also happy they discovered through other artists like the killers playing at Apple's version. Well, this
Keith Jopling:is the see kind of represented a bit of a rise to the top at the time, even though I know that, you know, that track was a kind of a hit second time around, actually with a hit after there was played by DJs. In the Balearic Islands wasn't.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:That's right. Yeah.
Keith Jopling:Were you aware of that? Other time?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I knew it was getting played at raves. And I knew it was becoming a cult record, because people would tell me, the
Keith Jopling:piano demos for this as the sea were a something of a discovery for me. Because for all the way they recorded that time with that big sound, they come across as on the piano demo. So it's just like, you know, beautiful balance, but with a really interesting piano style, which is rhythmic. Where did that come from? Were they some of them compose on the piano at the time. When did you record that piano demo version?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, those are all the songs in the album that were written on piano, recording those demos on the first two days of the album set shins in park gate studio, end of February start of March 1985. With my co producer John brand, he was the audience. And then he and I went through the songs and decided which ones were going to work best was kind of like a dry run for the album to to make selections. And those piano styles are my own self taught piano styles.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, it's very unusual the way that you play the piano like that.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Yeah, none of the trained warboys piano players can copy it.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I can imagine it's quite hard to do that.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Yeah, it's one finger and three fingers. Okay. You
Keith Jopling:had that spell as well, where songs were coming to you on a daily basis. I read somewhere you had 100 songs when you wrote fisherman's blue. So clearly, songs are just keep on coming out of you for the new material. How do they happen? Is it just constant music in your head of Do you switch off? Can you switch off? Do you want to switch that off at any time?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:No music is in my head all the time. And lyrics. In the last seven or eight years lyrics will come very, very fast. Yeah, if I've got an idea and the motivation, and it comes very fast, I was writing a lyric this morning. Because I'm working on this next warboys album. And it's a theme records. It's an album One says tells a story. And I identified a possible point in the story where I could write an extra song to tell another part of the tale with a particular artist in mind who we might ask to do a guest vocal. So I needed a lyric that would work that would tell this part of the story but which would also sound good in his artists voice. And it came remarkably quickly. For me very quickly, 20 minutes before versus sewn up nicely. So I sent it to James on one of the two keyboard players in the band very enjoyed the music with this particular singer in mind, so we'll see what happens. So
Keith Jopling:you always kind of carrying a notebook around in case something comes to you. You need to get it down. How do you get those ideas? Initially, it
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:used to be a notebook, Keith, it used to be a basil and bond notebook that went everywhere with me. But these days, it's the record facility on my iPhone, or it's my computer.
Keith Jopling:I wanted to ask you about love songs because when I've kind of done some of the reading around this it's amazing how your songs pop up as people's favorite love songs. I'm thinking that a man is in love. How long will I love you from room to room? The music and author Daniel Levitan picked out bring them all in I don't know if you're you're aware of him talking and writing about that when you go away as well. Is there an art to writing a love song that's different from other songs?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I'm allergic to the subject matter but that's the same with any song and a love song may or may not be from my own experience a man is in love isn't and how long I love you and not from my experience. I find it very easy to see how long I love you these days just think of my daughter but from my experience whereas other songs on the volleys blue album we're all we're all autobiographical but love walks in mourning came too soon rocker Dinesh go didn't we walk on water all those songs from my own life.
Keith Jopling:Okay, and the literary references that come through in your songs. I think that came from your mom being an English teacher didn't it?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Certainly came from growing up in a house full of books. Yeah, yeah, I was taught to respect without anyone hitting me in the head with a book I was taught to respect the written word.
Keith Jopling:Do you think it's kind of helped you write songs that have that sense of wonder to them? Is that coming from your sense of wonder of the of those original literary works? No,
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I think it's just the way I write songs must just be part of my psychological makeup.
Keith Jopling:The art of longevity is a team effort. show is produced by the songs of Lea, that's me. With project manager. It's audio engineered and edited by audio culture. Our amazing cover up by the wonderful Mick Clark, and original music for the show is by Andrew James Johnson. So what's next for you, Mike? We talked about all souls Hill being you know, you recorded it a year ago, you're making the new album. Obviously, you'd be taking a new band on tour. How do you think about the future as the water boys just in terms of the what's next and then where you might go where you might take it next?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I think we've put out too many records too quickly. The law test three, certainly. And I want to hold the next one back a little bit longer. I don't want to, I don't want that to be another warboys new album next summer, it's got to be 2024 or perhaps early 2025, we need a break. I just think people, people are not paying attention to the world, boys can very easily zone off when there are too many records. And coming with them so quickly exhausts the degree of media interest that we can reasonably expect. Yeah, we need a break, because I need to come back with his next record. And people be, Oh, what have you been doing? It's got to feel like that again. So we'll do probably a lot of touring next year, without a new record out, and maybe the year after that. And that's always good fun. Anyway, I love being on the road, evolving the music. And another project that I've got cooking is a boxset of this is the sea with a book to accompany it in the same style as we did one last year called The Magnificent Seven, which was the late 80s warboys. lineup. And there was a coffee table size book company. Yeah. So I've written the book about this as the CDs were 50 50,000 words. And I've done all the musical research, and I've done all the edits. And I've prepared all the music is really ready to go. It just needs just needs the book to be designed. And photographic clearances, things like that. So I suppose we'll have to work out when that's going to come out. Is it going to be Christmas at 23? Or is it sometime in 24? We haven't decided,
Keith Jopling:I'm sure you know, the fans will be looking forward to that. Again, putting a really classic record into different forms. I think, like books is definitely another perspective. You know, it's another way to encourage you to dive deep back into a record and discover new things that you haven't even over a long period of time. So when you were creating the book, what was your focus for that? Did you go back to the lyrics the creation of the record, to capturing the sense of the time? Well,
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I did the music first. And the music work is a it's a five CD set of all the music that we made in the build up to this as the see, and then during the creation of this as the see. And there are about 100 tracks on it, the CDs are very, very full. And it struck me that the forum for the book should be I should use the Track track list to tell the story. Each track is the heading of the next part of the story doesn't necessarily mean that the entire piece of Texas onto the track is about the duration of that track, although that will be included. But it's it's the next part of the story. And when I set out to do it, I thought that's not really have very much to say about this album because it was a studio work and how much can you say about being in a recording studio. But actually, once I started to delve in, I found there was a lot of period and personality background that was interesting and funny and, and so on and a lot of history of the warboys. And even of the years leading up to the workplace culturally, could be told,
Keith Jopling:did you go back and interview band members and and your studio team and others about their experience as well.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I wouldn't say I interviewed people, but certainly email people to ask what happens here? What were you thinking here and so on? Yes.
Keith Jopling:I think it's a great way to celebrate a record. I really do. So I look forward to seeing that. And the new album. I know what you mean, I think there's so much music these days, that it seems like new records, which are, you know, beautifully crafted, both the way they're written, recorded, put on the market, even if they're done quickly, right. There's still a significant body of work there. And they just sort of sort of aha that seemed to come and go very quickly for for us listeners in a in a kind of waterfall of music. So I know what you mean about sort of holding on for a little bit and making more of an event out of it. But I mean, if you've got any ideas, how will you do that?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, I'll just let the time lapse first, that people are more interested. Oh, you have made a record for a while What's this one about? And I know that it's a theme record. I know what's coming as an interesting theme. And the the record that we made that probably got the most attention in the last 15 years was an appointment with Mr. Yates because it was a theme record and and writers and and audience alike could grasp the purpose of it and then there was a it was notable because of that it was interesting because of that and This is it's not someone's poetry or someone's lyrics. But it is a it's a story. And so I hope that it will be found interesting in the same way.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I mean, I think that you have the appointment with Mr. Yeas went down really well didn't I think, just going back to that, because it wasn't something that I was immediately drawn to, but you made it very accessible musically?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Yeah, I think so to record in four years. So people were wondering what The Waterboy has been doing. So we had that on our side as well. And this record also has a number of distinguished guest artists, I didn't set out to do that it's not one of these dreaded duets albums or anything like that. But there are a number of interesting and intriguing guests. And I'm very excited about that. The opening track and the album isn't sung by me.
Keith Jopling:Again, that's a whole cry. That's that's an intro something that make an interesting story around us when we do it. For that reason, it just Yeah. But it's not it's nice to have it. I think it's those records that have got a strong theme or concepts, or, you know, they have some interesting people kind of come into the mix. Yeah, that's what makes a record interesting. These days, I do think albums are getting better, maybe because, you know, there needs to be more thought process going into them to sort of stand out from the crowd. So my last question, Mike really is just like, in recent times, you seem so vital, you haven't lost any, you know, I mean, I know creativity and commercial success kind of ebbs and flows. But do you have any advice or inspiration for kind of younger artists setting out these days with, with the goal of longevity in mind, it's interesting, I just met in the studios here, I just met a young singer. And I overheard him talking about, you know, just doing a trip to LA to do some recordings. And he mentioned, you know, I need to kind of figure out my longevity story. And that's what they all think about, because they want to be career musicians.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, I never doubted that I would still be a musician when I was older. I'm afraid I never made any decisions to build in longevity. But, but for me, the key to still enjoying what I do and still feel uninspired is to do what the music tells me. That's my modus operandi. And when I go away from that, as I say, I make bad records or, or I get stuck or blocked. But when I do what the music tells me, it opens up a path for me to walk. And
Keith Jopling:is that about getting that music down and then developing it from there? Or is it letting it just sort of sit there for a bit until that message is sort of distilled?
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:It could be either, I've recognized that the music has a lot of inner voice that's telling me what to do. And when I was 16, or 17, that that inner voice was my fascination with the new record by so and so. Or wanting to sound like this or wanting to sound like the clash. That was the music was telling me to go that way. And then, and then as I became more sophisticated, as a writer and a performer, the instructions were more original. And I just learned to be able to perceive those. Now, of course, they're just there all the time. They're just with me all the time. And I structured my life. So I don't have a lot of interference, and never have the TV on. I just, I don't actually there is a TV in the room, I might watch a DVD now and then, but but I don't actually know how to get TV channels on it, and never listen to the radio. It's never on. If I listen to music, it's because I've put a record on or want to listen to something. And most of the time, I'm in the company of the music in my mind or my own thoughts. And that's where I'm comfortable. I had to go to the hospital a few days ago. It's nothing serious. But But I had to be in a waiting room in the morning was on Tuesday morning. And they had morning TV on and and it's something that I probably haven't seen for 30 or 40 years. And I would have found it so much less stressful if the room had been silent. But I realized that I'm not normal and that most people are uncomfortable with their own thoughts or certainly not as comfortable as I am. And so the TV might be a necessary distraction for them if they're nervous or afraid going to hospital. So for me, I like my own company. And, and because I'm so accustomed to noticing every every cloud that passes the sky of my mind, and very attuned to what the music is telling me. And I've chosen to make my life like that.
Keith Jopling:I mean, it sounds quite simple to sort of say Avoid distractions and kind of listen to what's going on in your head. But I think it's, it's actually really good advice because it's getting harder for people to do that, because, and young artists saying what they're permanently distracted because they're being asked to do this and that and you know, make a tick tock and and it's just insane. I wonder how much time they have to really sit down and write a good song. Yeah.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Well, it's the version of what happened to artists in the past. You know, in the 60s, it was the stones and the Beatles on the one night isn't the photo sessions and the recording sessions and the radio stations, they never had a chance to draw breath. And of course, some of them did go completely crazy. Artists need space, and also space to not just listen to what's going on in your head because I have a lot of thoughts and ideas. But if the idea isn't confirmed by a feeling in my gut, I don't do it. It has to be that extra confirmation in my guts. That's that's the kicker. So
Keith Jopling:just taking a bit of time to tap into your instinct.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:I have to be quiet enough that I can hear all that going on.
Keith Jopling:Well, fantastic, Mike. It's been a pleasure to have you on I'm so glad we could make it happen at last. And yeah, good luck with this is to see the book and the book set. And the new record. Yeah, look forward to seeing you out on the road. And, and thanks for coming on. All right, man. Cheers, Mike.
Mike Scott, The Waterboys:Thanks so long. Bye bye.