thanks for having me.
Keith Jopling:Now, whereabouts in the world. Are you at the minute?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I'm in Spain at the moment?
Keith Jopling:Okay, okay, great. What are you just taking a break because you're not touring right now? You don't think you're going back on the road shortly?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:We are going back out in about 10 days. So yeah, just around the states and looking forward to that.
Keith Jopling:Well, congratulations the other side of make believe Ben out for a little while now, what's the reaction that you felt to the new album?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I don't know. You know, to me, it's like, I'm not the greatest barometer as far as reactions. I mean, and this is something this is nothing new, I just don't put my foot in the water, so to speak, and try to see how people are feeling. It's always nice to hear when people are feeling it, you know, and friends say something to you or someone and just in general. And so, so far, people have been saying nice things to me. But I'm not definitely you know, I've never been someone like scours for reviews or scour for feedback and social media and stuff like this. It's something I've been doing really since turn on the bright lights days. And it was not because I was reading anything bad around, then it just, I was sensing the change, and just the anticipation of like, when, you know, just being curious about what was out there. Like in the early days, I think bright lights, and it was always, you know, predominantly positive. But it seemed like I was noticing the way I was changing by just being like a little bit nervous beforehand, or the anticipation. And I just kind of was like wait for self preservation, nothing should change whether it's good or bad. And I should keep doing what I want to be doing, you know what I'm doing, which is what's important to me. And that's what I've been doing since then. And it's just kind of like, just puts these like little blinders on my, you know, my eyes and just lets me going forward and keeps on writing and so forth. So to me, it's just like, I guess, self preservation. But ultimately, it's also sort of when you do the long division on things, that's what's important. Like I can't control how people react. As I said, it's always nice when people say positive things, but I totally respect that not everyone will love something that you do. And that's fair game, as long as I'm, and we are good with what we put out there, then that's all I can control. You know?
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I guess your records are a little bit slow burn anyway, I find like it takes a while for any one record that you've released to bed in. So I can't quite place it yet into resign, I'm not going to ask you to try and do that. But you don't look at the numbers, then you kind of look at the streaming numbers now and say, Hey, how are we doing?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I don't I don't look at it. I mean, it's, you know, I used to work in the music industry. I used to work at record labels and things like that. And, I mean, obviously, the music industry has changed about about a billion times, you know, over since then it's just keeps changing and evolving. And it's like insane. So, no, it's not something it's not a science that I want to you know, it's I feel like you're it's either you're gonna be all in on this as far as like wanting to know everything and all the data for you're going to be like, This is so out of my hands. And I don't know, like I don't I don't think my mood should change one way or the other. I feel very good about the record. Do you know what I mean? I mean, sincerely from the bottom, my heart. I know we wouldn't put anything out there that we don't feel is as good as anything we've done previously. And I really do feel like it holds us down and I think it's a very strong record and I love it and we love them really proud of it. And so like that's all I can do. I've said that makes it a chi I'd feel a lot more insecure if you're putting something else something out there that you know, I had some uncertainty about because then I feel like if someone didn't like it, they achieve. We're tapping into my insecurity about something that you know what I mean, but like if I feel good about and someone else doesn't like it, but I feel good about it. Like I can respect that someone else might prefer something else because empiricists totally fair game so no, I don't I don't follow the numbers, any of that stuff, you know? Yeah,
Keith Jopling:it's kind of reassuring to hear in a way especially with your record industry background, because I guess creators shouldn't but I know a lot of creators that do obsess over the numbers so no, I was just interested I do read the reviews I don't know why I've been kind of addicted to reading reviews just out of interest I think I just enjoy reading what writers how writers express a record and you know my go to is Alexei portrayed as the guardian now he said of the other side of make believe that our quote here Interpol a long past the point where they're in the business of attracting new fans nevertheless, they keep moving albeit subtly. Do you think that's fair?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Keep moving like keeping a band is that they can mean is that the implication or I
Keith Jopling:think what he's saying is the changes are subtle. I kind of agree with that. You know, I first got into into Paul actually is a bit of a listening experiment because I didn't really take to turn on the bright lights and we'll talk about that in a second. What I read was was amazing so I checked it out. I listened to antics on heavy rotation and that started to make sense and I think that's the thing is your music takes time to bed in and the songs take a lot of time to separate and it definitely takes some time to distinguish between the record but it's there. Do you feel like your change from album to album is subtle? Or do you know that you're going through a different direction a different sound?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I feel like this is more of a case when you're like in the forest you just you know you it's hard for you to have the true perspective on how much you're evolving or changing and so forth. May was a surprise when we finished this record. It wasn't surprised like the you know when our our management heard it and record label heard him coming into the studio and him well, we're but he couldn't they were very enthusiastic. They were really excited like, oh, that sounds really, really different from something that I'm previously. That was a surprise me. I was like, Oh, I didn't think it sounded the same. And I knew there was elements that were different such as like Tony and something changed, which have Kano, and I'm not playing guitar on those songs. And I know, there's some other songs that just showed an evolution and a progression, like into the night and, and so forth. But I was surprised by so you know, I was like, I, you know, that they would have said that, on this record, maybe more than the previous record. So, but that's where I recognize it's like, you're just not, I'm just not objective. As long as I feel good about what we're doing. Like I said, that's the only thing that I do trust my sixth sense, as far as when I'm writing it, where I know, it's the same thing like when I'm writing like, work on a new piece of music just on my own before the band's, you know, taps into, it's the same, the same sort of engagement has to happen that's been happening with me since I was a teenager, which is just sort of like, this euphoric excitement has to happen when like, oh, this thing and it can't happen very often, I can't get up every day. I'm not a prolific person who's just writing 14 songs, this but I go fishing, or you know, every day I try to figure something out, and that's it's part of the process. But when I do, it's the same sort of emotion and excitement where the world's got a little bit more even keel everything's a little more balanced. Like, you're I'm like, a little nicer to everyone the world, everything's, you know, a little bit rounder. And that's something that I see. So to me, it's like, and it's like, almost like an addictive quality to have that. So I had those when I was writing these songs. And we certainly had those when the songs were coming together and retreat, put, you know, forming them into Interpol pieces of music. So those are the things as long as like, and I'm very grateful for those moments. And I'm also kind of in awe that we still have those moments where they remind me again, it takes me back to the early days of Interpol, when you leave rehearsal on your, you know, your your boolean about something that happened, like, Oh, my God, I can't do that song took this turn, I would never seen that coming. But and we had those and so to me, I'm like, Oh, those feelings are, you know, I know, I recognize that those are those those emotional that that excitement, that happiness, that euphoria, again, which is just something amazing for any human experience. But when you put it in the, the like the the paradigm of the bet, you know, the band's life, it's like I recognize those high moments. And so I know that we're on the right course. So I'm not sure if I answered anything there.
Keith Jopling:It is interesting, especially hearing that you're writing in those euphoric moments and feeling the excitement about the music. And I guess, maybe one of the things about this band is over 25 years, but obviously, you're all 25 years older, and you were kind of known for, but also badged as kind of angsty and aren't Rocky and deep and dark and moody at the beginning, but you're not going to necessarily be in that place. 25 years older and down the line.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I think it's like, this is kinda like, you know, it's saying that when you put it into the Grand umbrella of arts, you know, it's like these moments of when talking about euphoria, or feeling a bit better. This is a moment, this is expression, this is things that make me feel better, right? When I come, you know, when I write a piece of music, it makes me feel better. I'm like, expressing something I mean, Excite, you know, and I think that's just kind of probably you put that over the centuries, that's how artists would probably, you know, imagine when they could Picasso, you know, tap in something new or get excited about something that's, you know, this is not so much because he was feeling heavy, and so forth. As much as these are the modes that sort of help us through our our existence a little bit. And so I think this is something that's linear, that's probably not going to go away. That's that I'm very grateful that you get all these things can go away, the fact that they can still rank them into, you know, recognizing these moments. So you know, euphoria or excitement or the band's progress, and so forth, that we still have this and that we're so amongst us, while we're writing pieces of music is definitely something we take for granted. I mean, we wouldn't be doing this if we didn't have the same way like we would. We're not we didn't make a record because it was time to go make a record. We made a record because I'd run a batch of songs, I shared it with my bandmates they got they respond to them, they worked on them, they you know, and then the songs were already on the course. And then all sudden, you're like, you're just thinking about what you're doing. And you're really excited about what you feel you do feel. There's a sense of like, amen. This is as good as or better than anything we've done previously, which I think that's what you should feel as an artist, you know, so. But those things, you can't take those things for granted. Because they'd be it's quite reasonable that one day, 25 years after you started the band, you would no longer feel this way. And if it really became like a job like well, I guess you want to go touring, so we should make a wreck. We would stop we wouldn't I know we wouldn't do this just and I know there's plenty of and said that that's just what happens and there's nothing wrong with that. But I know that we wouldn't we wouldn't be able to go through this process. Just the kind of individuals that we are just it would be. It'd be difficult be trying and it would be for the first time I think it would feel like a job and that's we can't you know, they just wouldn't work for us. They just wouldn't work and they'd be it'd be a weird kind of it'd be like effort coming from a Long for place
Keith Jopling:yeah the industry is meant to be a fun it's entertainment at the end of the day let's not get to
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:you want to do this you should want to do this not have to do this it's a shame to do something that you were you know, as a teenager you dreamt of doing and then you had this and then you worked so hard to have the opportunity to make a record you know, which thing come easy for us and took a long time and then when you do and then and then you never really dreamt before beyond making that record then here we are 25 years after the fact that 20 years after our first record came out having this conversation that's like wild to me, but it's also extremely privileged to still feel like yeah, I love our last record I really do. And I do feel like it's as good as anything we've done and I hope I feel that way about our next record because and that means that like I'm you know, I'm still in it to win and I love what I do and I you know and I still have this this deep need and I do feel like my bandmates have that too as well. And I you know, I see them improving as artists as well which is pretty I guess he Paul just evolving all the time as a as an artist just always going forward and progressing. It's really remarkable.
Keith Jopling:The ultimate longevity is presented with Bowers and Wilkins, a premium British audio brand. Bowers and Wilkins loudspeakers are trusted by some of the world's leading recording studios, including Abbey Road. It's a pleasure to have Bowers and Wilkins supporting the show. I recently saw you at the Roundhouse in London, you've been touring a lot. You know, when you tour you are a pretty hardcore touring band. Are you making up for lost time? To some extent with the touring right now? No,
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I mean, you know, I think in I mean, just it's strange with the pandemic and everything. It didn't it didn't interrupt our schedule so much. We average you know, putting out a record every three and a half, four years. And we're right on that says, you know that this latest record came out about the same amount of time so it didn't it didn't affect us on that. And so we're not really making up for you know, for last time, but as you said, we when we when we put out a record we normally try to really support it and get out there and plays you know, to as many people as as possible.
Keith Jopling:I wanted to ask you about this tour you did last year with spoon.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:We're about to do we haven't done that last year. We're about to do it in a couple of weeks.
Keith Jopling:Is that the tour coming up with spoon I thought that had already happened. Now
Unknown:that starts in about two weeks.
Keith Jopling:I guess I need to look closer at the days because I'm looking at this at the shedule thinking I'm just feeling envious that all of these us fans are getting two of the coolest bands on Earth touring together and I mean I can't go because I'm stuck here in the UK but Okay, so that's about to happen.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Exactly. Yeah. So as a US and one date air Yeah, I think just one day in Canada.
Keith Jopling:Okay, the Lights Camera faction. Whose idea was that?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Well, I mean, we've known those guys for forever since turn the bright lights days. I mean, they had a record come out around I think the same month and a half was the same day but the same month as Erica called killed the moonlight which is a tremendous, we all love the when it came out. And and then consequently we you know, we got to meet those guys, because you put out a record soon. Around the same time you're gonna find yourselves a similar, you know, festival stops and, and we're already fans to them and became friends. And then I've been friends with Brit, the singer and guitarist since that time, and then we did one tour with them in on antics. Actually, they supported us and in Europe. And so that was really fun. And and then yeah, and now we're on the same, you know, we're on both on Matador and it just felt like a great thing to do. And it just made a lot of sense. And, you know, it's rare that you get to tour with your longtime friends, but it's definitely makes it you know, a lot, not a lot more fun, but it makes it more fun for sure. You
Keith Jopling:don't see it very often. It's kind of I guess, you know, essentially, joint building as I said, two really cool bands with two followings. I would imagine the overlap in the fan base is pretty big as well. So you know, it's kind of a treat, and then post pandemic to be able to get a hey, I still got a chance to come and just hop on a flight. Oh, good. I'm gonna look into that. Okay, Daniel, the conversation is meant to follow. A very rarely does. But it's meant to follow a kind of narrative arc, which is now being referred to on the show and people around it as Brett's curve. Because it's based on a quote from Brett Anderson of suede. Who said that, you know band's career trajectory follows a certain narrative, which is the struggle, the stratospheric rise to the top, the crash to the bottom or the backlash, and then the Renaissance. How much of that the EU kind of recognized in the 25 years of Interpol.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Well, the struggle for sure at the beginning, just because, you know, we were a band for five years and not getting anywhere really. I mean, for the first four years, three and a half years. We're just Really, we started played our first show in early 98, like March 98, put out our first demo and the summer and Ida and we were already kind of we had our identity, you know, on the first time we had PDA rolling, that would end up on turning the bright lights, those not those recordings of it, but the songs hadn't really changed. But the timing maybe just wasn't right. You know, we you know, and then on the second day, we recorded PVA, and then we had, I can't remember the sounds we added to it. But Consequently, we just couldn't find a home, every record label in the world just rejected us. We were playing these shows, you know, the that time in New York, there were like two clubs that you really wanted to play. Now, there's a plethora of them. By that time, there's just really two and we just bounced around. And, you know, they would count how many unit the doorman would count how many people were coming to see you and who you here to see. And then it was really important that you had all your friends come down, because if you didn't have enough people, you were gonna get booked the next time. And then we're ever you know, we're really buying to open up for you know, when and when you notice by the show that came to town we really wanted open for them and Mogwai and countless fans, we would always try to get the opening slots just trying to build a fine, but it was a really slow burn, just no one was always counting on your friends to come. So that and then even the label that we're still signed to Matt or rejected us three times before they finally signed us. So it's a I don't regret that thing. The all these things were like good things for us. It kind of allowed us to form identity and get comfortable in the process. And for the moment that when the work we did put out finally, we did put our first record, I think we're already you know, our process was I can't I can't say this completely solidified because we just weren't expecting people to respond to bright lights as they did. But at the same time, something was secure that just kind of we just, you know, kept on. We didn't we weren't too fast by the attention, you know, and I was always very wary that like this could happen. And you know, I didn't know how if I would be able to write another piece of music, if knowing that there was someone else out there waiting for it. Or, you know, I was just I wasn't sure about this. And but having those years I think kind of allowed us to like, you know, formulate and get a little bit comfortable in this whole thing. But so yeah, I think the struggle they identify with, yeah,
Keith Jopling:five years is a long time to kind of get on the ladder, so to speak with an album release. I know you've had a couple of EPs, but from your personal perspective, because you've worked in the record industry, right, you've been you've had a job at Domino's, so you knew how things work? You put the band together? I mean, did you feel like in that five year period, do you ever feel like this is just not going to happen felt like giving up. i
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:It was never about like for me giving up but the goal is definitely shifted from all I wanted was to make a record. That's it. I never wanted anything more that was someone give us the opportunity to make a record. But I never thought about giving up and then I also just want to keep the band together because it's just you know, your your four guys in New York, you know, no one has money, you know, rehearsal spaces cost money, it's your all the gigs you're doing you're like, you know, spending money to get the car to get the gear, the gig, no one cares. So you know, it's easy. There's, there's all these reasons be like, well, maybe we should solve give up and but, you know, for me, it's more I think I came to the conclusion that I really love this man, I really believe in what we're doing. And if no one ever hears it, I just found it strange. They found like a piece of that, like, Oh, I'm getting something out of it. And you know, it shouldn't be about other people getting out. I mean, it would be I'd love for people to have a reaction to but that's just not happening right now. So, for me, it was more about Well, I really believe in what we're doing. And if you know, all that happens is that we make music that we enjoy and that we believe in and that's that and then you know, it's, that's okay, I was really trying to find the peace in that because, yeah, there wasn't much to go on. beyond that. And, and just, you know, and I really want just keep this together. So I actually became, I did find the piece of that, you know, I just which is strange, but I did like I just really wanted to enjoy it. And so there was a purity to that as well or, you know, just doing it for you and not for cause and effects. And that's the only thing that gets you I could control them or I can control how people are going to react and fans. You know, we weren't building a fan base by playing these shows. Or, you know, I don't know so that's the only thing that like yeah, that's all I did get. I didn't I just wanted to keep together just for us to play music because I love what we're doing.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I think that's the crucial thing in that five years as you were building a core fan base. Probably a lot of those people are still with you today, I'm sure and that's the hard thing for bands these days. I mean patience and hard work without seeing the rewards you know, in the kind of instant gratification world we live in and where the pressure is to succeed. It's
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:also like a different time like it I mean, for one I wouldn't say we haven't we're building up a fan base for five years I feel like I really mean that my my friends for this first four years and like the last year I feel like you know, things were kind of changing a little bit in New York obviously the you know, the strokes were starting to get a lot more attention people. There was a spotlight in the city and so the last year before we reported our you know, the year I guess probably like 2001 was was, you know, things are heating up for sure in New York, but it took a long time until then. But also, as part of the old architecture in the music industry, where it was sort of like a word of mouth, things are slow build, people hadn't really figured out how to use the internet. So it was kind of pre social media, all these things. So in one way, it's like, you know, and to the extent that, you know, all these bands could exist in New York City, for instance, unbeknownst to each other, like, and not like, you know, because it was just like, there wasn't this network and so forth. So I think the way people discovered us and our music has more in common with the way people discover music in the 70s 80s and 90s. Do you know what I mean? And then after that, from, you know, 2002 onwards, it's just like, you've had downloads, you've had piracy. You've had streaming, you've had social media?
Keith Jopling:Yeah, like, as you say, you know, it's been constant flux ever since. Yeah, 25 years on out of that New York scene, even including the strokes in the conversation, a lot of bands that went by the wayside, you know, into post doing pretty well. Relatively, you got to a healthy place, I want to kind of get to to that in a bit. But let's just get on to turn on the bright lights. Because having gone through the five year struggle, and relying on your friends and then feeling like something was was happening, I mean, you put together a phenomenal debut. I mean, I'm sure that 9.5 out of 10 scoring pitchfork was was part of it, but you were critically received, and then you did have a kind of a stratospheric, no, maybe not a stratospheric rise, but definitely a moment. How did you react to that personally, after kind of five years, just trying to make it happen.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I mean, it's, it's, it's a funny thing, because when I think back to those five years, I can think all the stages, I could think of the slowness of the moments, I could think of the, you know, putting on like stuffing all those demos, putting them in envelopes, writing to the record label, go into the post office sending, following up with the record label, you know, all those things I remember very clearly, and then finally putting out you know, getting to make the record was sort of like was such a dream again, make the record format, it was just insane to me was just like this is it was my favorite record label, and it just couldn't believe it. So it was almost like that was like the end of the movie for me. Like I never dreamt further than that. So then going on tour, and then doing this as it's like, wow, I can't believe you know, the end, it's happening. Well, that's all that for that. So everything that happened afterwards, just the fact that people actually had a positive reaction to the album was just insane to me, especially since no one really cared about the demos and the demos weren't terribly different than what's on the album just better executed. But ultimately we had our identity for it since day one you know, we then get I mean, like the early you the early traces of Interpol are there since you know, our since our first show, I guess the one thing I will say is like it didn't happen like overnight, you know, I mean, I think there was a tension on us just because of all the detention in New York City was getting but it felt like you know, we want that first tour in a van around the states. And you can see us getting, you know, the shows getting busier and busier as a tour went on and then like you know, and then like the next year we did we did it in a bus but again like the venue's just went up like a stage and then went up it felt like kind of still, you felt like the vapors of the old music industry was so strong in the sense that it was college radio sort of supporting us record in the record source or putting us like on end caps and being like, recommending to me a Silikal word of mouth sort of speak kind of thing going on by the end of it. Yeah, we reached a certain like level and playing some big shows and it was pretty exciting. But I think the fact that it wasn't overnight I think you know I'm really grateful that it wasn't one of the situations you know was praised you know, the way they you know, the way social media was even five seven years later where all the senses patient for even recorded and no that would have been in the saints man thing that would have been Yeah, that would be like really terrible. So I was really happy about like a I was happy about having nights that I was happy about having those five years leading up to making our first record that was a good thing that solidified our process and then beat the we put out bright lights I think the fact that it was still word of mouth, it felt like a word of mouth kind of thing going on just felt like people were excited about us but that felt you know, I just felt good and exciting. And then I think what we did that was was smarter and that we were very mindful of was even though we toured pretty hard on the back of bright lights whenever after he finished like one run around the states and before going a year we'd go back to a rehearsal space in Williamsburg and we started writing and that was really just be like let's start writing before there's too much attention let's just have some ideas and have some songs under our belts before so we don't finish touring and now there's everyone's like wait and you know waiting for our next record and we have a blank slate and that was something that we're really we were very cognizant about doing and just being really ready and consequently that's what led to you know we put out antics literally two years after bright lights and we toward really almost suck till the you know, the Hmong we started recording so I think it was a doubt that sort of helped us just kind of bridge we're very wary about like yeah, At the, you know, yeah, what happens when people you know, they anticipate I think it's I don't know if people talk about so much now, but back then people will talk about a lot, the sophomore slump kind of thing. And I think that was very much in the minds of like, let's, you know, let's build something towards the second record before we can even think have time to think about that. Yeah,
Keith Jopling:I had Stuart Murdoch, Bill and Sebastian on the show, actually. And still was saying same thing, because they, again, took a while to get going made the first record, but he had a bunch of songs in the pocket already for the second record. That was in a sense that the kind of trip to why their second record was so good and built the momentum, which was a similar story for Interpol. I mean, I mentioned, you know, antics is one of my favorites anyway, because I listened to it so much at the time. But it is a really strong second album. And you did manage to avoid that sophomore slump. So in hindsight, you were doing all the right things. Maybe there was a deliberate smart decision on that basis. Let's just go back and write let's not get carried away.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I think so. I think it was like just a good move. And then you I think we even on the even what, we're still touring on turning bright lights, I think we started playing at least one if not two, songs that we would end up recording. Yeah. So I think so. I mean, you know, it's, I can't believe we even found the time to write in between tours, like, you know, on bright laces, because we toured pretty heavy and, you know, going to Australia and Japan and doing like a lot of stuff. But I think we just, you know, somehow we were all on the same page about being like, this is important. And we should try to do this. And we should try to get ahead of this. And I think it served us well, because yeah, I don't I just think coming back to a blank slate would have been a bit daunting, maybe would have been fine. But it certainly felt a lot better. Having a bit, you know, having some songs in RSO. And then having a bit of a plan to go back and record with in the same studio, the same person that recorded
Keith Jopling:around the bright lights. Yeah, because there's so many second albums that do okay, because, you know, there's a bigger production around it, or, you know, the band gets in a big producer or whatever it sounds they sound good. I think on antics, I genuinely feel like the, you know, the songs were really strong on the album, which is what builds momentum from there. And I guess in your case, it did absolutely that because that was the point where you assign them to a major write for the third album, so you were suddenly on a major label, and possibly global stars. But that didn't quite work out. So on reflection, now, how do you kind of go back to that time what happened?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Well, I mean, nothing changed. As far as a record, we made, we would have made the same record whether as an independent or not, or love to my or whatever change, you know, the decisions that we made, you know, we have complete autonomy, and we, you know, we made the decisions based on what we wanted to do as a band. So, nothing would have changed there artistically. I felt like we were just unafraid to try to do something a bit different, like work with like a different team and just try to be open to it. And knowing that nothing was going to change on the artistic side, and that we had complete control of everything we wanted to do. And I guess we just had a little bit also bad luck in the sense, like some of the things that happen in major labels. Worlds happened, like the, you know, where, you know, one label sort of merged with another label, and a lot of people that were enthusiastic about signing us were no longer at the record company. And so that kind of just changed the spectrum. You know, right, as we were releasing, I love to admire, but I, you know, as much as I did work in the music industry and so forth, I always looked at as like, just and also, you know, coupled with the fact that you know, by the time we actually even released and before release antics by time, you know, two weeks after we recorded antics three months before we were due to release antics elites online, you know, and so people were already reviewing it, like Elite version of the record online, we were doing like a tour beforehand. So to me, my brain my mindset, like sincerely was easy come easy go, you know, I felt very, you know, grateful that I was able to, you know, put out bright lights kind of the under the umbrella of the old way, you know, the word of mouth thing, college radio, people getting, you know, moving forward and so forth. So, if no one's gonna buy antiques, you know, people did buy it and so forth. But I was like, easy come easy go. And I think I felt the same way about her loved her Meyer as far as like, being on a major label, and you know, things kind of go in one way or the other. But I was like, you know, I don't know if it's, you know, spiraling into the category of like, I can't control this. But I do. I do accept I made decisions to sign to a major label and just to do something different. And I don't have regrets about that. You know, it was, it was like it was an experience I have and the most important thing to me is it didn't affect the record we made. I'm very proud of our loved admirer. And I think there's like some great, great songs and songs that we play, you know, to this day. Yeah,
Keith Jopling:it's a good album. I actually didn't mind that. don't have more commercial sound.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I don't think that's I mean, this is where I would disagree with you. I don't think it's I don't think I mean, we just changed from working maybe, you know, we worked a rich costume on them. And we just gave the record to capital and then they put it out there was no, it wouldn't the same thing is what would have happened with Matadero we would have made the same record and the guy who worked with rich Cossie and he came recommended to cheat me from Lawrence from Domino. And he had like, you know, so I was like, Oh, cool. Yeah, we just we're just open to trying to do something new to work with new people. And so, but it wasn't because we had sort of designs on commercial success or doing like, I mean, if you listen to like pioneer the falls the first song on that record, it's, it's pretty out there. It's a pretty different kind of architecture. But I think it shows a band trying to push forward to progress and to be open to like new directions and new sounds and so forth.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I think actually, that's probably where it marks itself in different territory from the first two records. It just felt like you were trying to branch out into something else. So maybe I'm just putting the maybe commercial stamp on it just for the perceptions of being associated with the major and all of that. So yeah, definitely accept that. That it's a very familiar story, by the way band goes to major label, and it's not it's not any one in particular or anything. It's just a series of events that as you say, are out of your control. And that's that's the thing. I think that is disorientating for bands in that situation.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I guess and I guess for me because I was well aware of the history repeats you know, these things happened. I'm like, right when I you know, it was one label kind of gobbles up now the label this that you're like, oh, yeah, okay, it's that old chestnut? You know, like, Alright, oh, well, you know,
Keith Jopling:it's corporate shenanigans, you know, your band making music and he caught up in it all.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:And as I said, your thing is I can accept this like, oh, yeah, we did decide signed to Capitol record. So chalk this up to experience and so forth. But it all worked out. You know, we signed again with Matt or an album for and and now our love to admire is that she you know, we've licensed it to matter or so. So groovy.
Keith Jopling:Keith, here, thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please tell your friends, listen back to the other episodes. And don't forget to subscribe on whatever podcast platform you're listening to the conversation. Just want to sort of take a diversion into your own guitar playing style, which I really like. It's very distinctive, to How did you arrive at that sound? Like, who were your influences? And how did you kind of channel those into the way you play?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Thank you. It's always a difficult one for me to answer those. I mean, for one part, like, I still write the same way that I I was writing as a teenager, which is like a classical guitar. Like a really shabby, like classical guitar that's not necessarily good, but it's, it's comfortable to me so I like to try and write songs as well I don't write with like, plugged in amplify and all this net, I write and, you know, I'm like watching films and just like plugging away drinking coffee in the morning. So it's like, the way I like to do things. If I can detect a little piece of music or a little bit of a trail of like, oh, this could be a great direction or there's something down here then just indeed sort of like Bear set up as a classical guitar me plucking away on it, then to me, I feel like okay, well that you know, if I can sense something emotional and something to be discovered then then that says a lot that to me makes you feel like as soon as I amplify and give it a bit of like character and so forth. I can sort of like chisel away and find you know, something a bit more yearning there. From a guitar sounds I would say I don't know for me it's like I love like the Moto corny like spaghetti western guitar sounds to me those things were always like the greatest I love the hollow body like sounds you know from 50s and 60s I love like, like rumble to me is you know by link right is like one of the greatest guitar sounds and guitar moments ever. That kind of vibe to me is like really it for me like I really love it or you know, even like the those abandoned nines called Jonathan fired or like when I was like a, you know, a college student or like a teenager and in New York, Midnight in Seattle, and if you were hurting but there were like all the attention in the world they had who was the bandit Jonathan fire
Keith Jopling:either. Okay, okay. No, I don't know that.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Very exciting then and that she, three of the guys went on to be in the Walkman. And so putting the guitar
Keith Jopling:right Okay, good. Well, now that makes total sense. I mean, the Walkman I loved
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:the Walkman meter big one straw and the when they called it a day Yeah. Well, Paul, like Paul, the guitarist, I feel like he's got great, great guitar sound and yet a similar guitar sound and job part or two and, like that kind of, you know, 50s 60s timeless kind of vibe I love.
Keith Jopling:I don't know, it's kind of it's different from the that sort of 27 And as well, you know, when I was at the Roundhouse show, something struck me that I hadn't heard before in your playing in in the sound, it sounded like it was actually quite African. Like, almost like the Marley you know, the ALI Farka Toure, that kind of style. You know, just the looping riffs. Kind of a little bit trend. See, I guess that's not a conscious thing. But that's what I heard live for sure.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I mean, that's like me on my greatest like, fantasy days, wishing I could do but yeah. Man, like, No, I mean, I'm a huge admirer. And yeah, now that's like, that's everyone. And when you listen to some of those records, you know, they're just like, epic guitar playing. And I would love to be able to imitate some of that, you know, but if you could hear any sort of detections, I would definitely say that there's an influence, and my guitar playing. And,
Keith Jopling:you know, I think part of it is the balance in the band as well, which I I really admire. So. Yes, that's the way you play guitar. But also with Paul banks, you know, yes, he's the frontman, but neither of you dominate. And with Danford Arena on the drums as a trio, now, you seem very balanced. It's very even on stage on the record. How did that happen? Is that a deliberate decision? Or did that happen? You know, after Carlos left? How did that come about? That kind of balance?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Probably after Carlos, that's somewhat I would say, I mean, a, you know, the band has always been looked at as like, you know, a democracy. Everyone has an ownership, everyone has a feeling of like, it's theirs is not, you know, it's never meant to be one person and other parts. So it's, you know, and I think this was very important since inception, since, you know, way before, we, you know, we were assigned to record label or anything like that. So I think that's just part of our DNA. And it's important that people feel that way. And this is part of, I would say, is the reason why we're still advances say, and I think this is something that we, I certainly was very conscientious of, like, you know, you really, you know, you don't to read much to kind of get into the whole, like, Oh, and this is how fans broke up over time. Well, they made one record, then boom, and so to me, it was like, let's not have these things, like everyone, it's just not, it's silly, and it's dumb. And everyone should feel like, this is theirs, and a sense of belonging and ownership. And so, let's remove this, you know, and I think it's definitely part of what's made us so make records to stay and everyone feeling like, you know, this is their baby, it's important, but then certainly, yeah, when it became just the three of us Yeah, the circle had to close a little bit where we had to feel the balance and there's only three of us number one writing music and But that said, when that happened, you know, a lot of things revealed themselves, you know, we, we knew that we owed it to ourselves to give this a whirl, but we also knew that we had to be honest to see whether there was something there was possible. We then take anything we weren't just expecting to be like to carry on how could we you know, clothes is a huge part of the band and you know, in a formidable artists, musicians, so we had to see and, but that said, like, when the early days of me when I started playing Paul, sante written, you know, in advance developing tour, and then, you know, at that time, we didn't know if Paul's gonna play bass. But you know, first day he came for guitar, and it's just like, we need something else here. And he's like, Oh, I have a, you know, baseball played baseball, I'm like, Okay, let's try this. And then, you know, Sam was even better. And then right away from like, that second day, we, you know, made great headway into what would become my desire, and anywhere from helping tour and it just felt like, wow, this is there's something here and it's not, you know, and it's just like, I didn't know, Paul could play bass, I will. And I use a great artist. And he's someone that just in general can pick up things very quickly, whether it's like something flooded, or artistic and right, they're like, Wow, this is I wouldn't predicted this, you know, I was thinking probably get someone else and then like, you know, just some sort of form of that way. And it just, you know, when that happened, and Sam came up, maybe like two weeks later, and then from there, we're kind of off to the races and things were just wow, this is maybe yeah, something just, you know, we were put into the situation and but we were finding out a lot of each other and about the band dynamic and, and how we could continue. Yeah,
Keith Jopling:I always think it's fascinating just the way there's a reaction to you know, when a founding member leaves and as definitely is a key part of the sound the way Karl has played bass and for you know, pullbacks to take up the bass, it's sort of the sort of thing that almost worries fans a little bit like, Ah, this is gonna, this is now going to be off kilter. You know, we're not going to hear two guitars chiming. But actually, I think you definitely, as a player seem to react really well on Alpin tour. I think that's a good moment for you as, as a guitar player, I'm thinking of, I mean, you mentioned my desire to get that kind of climbing riff. And then there's the riff on anywhere, you know, you felt like you were having a bit bit of a moment on that record.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Yeah, you know, I I feel like it was an emotional time in our band's life. And I don't know, it just said maybe even in my life or something like that. And we're emotional unnecessarily, like, in a bad way either just like in an expressive, like, deeply expressive way. And I still love, like, the riffs, my desires, like is so hits me hard in a way that's like, it taps into something. And, and then also, just like, you know, I'm not someone who like you double down, like, okay pushing the corner or double down or it's like I didn't know, but because maybe there was like a lot of uncertainty. And I it was a very raw moment. This is kind of why I picked up the guitar in the first place, even as a teenager, you know, like, unhappy, teenage years. And so portrait makes you This is like your outlet. And so I had a lot to probably Express.
Keith Jopling:Okay, I get that, because I was wondering, you know, whether that was a sense of everybody stepping up a little bit, which I've heard before, I mean, you know, when, when a key member of a band leaves, there is a sense of the other musicians are going to rally around and, and they're going to step up to the plate, do something different, but also, just
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:be better. Yeah. And also, it's like, it's so it's, you know, it's like, every time you get to make a run, write a record, I think it's like an opportunity to do something better. And you're done previously saved. I mean, like, it's, it doesn't really, really matter what you did previously, it's not like, I'm sitting, there's so much thinking about what last happened, I just don't, you know, like, I've started writing some new songs now. And it's not because I'm really thinking about the other side of me believe it's because I kind of I'm, I still love writing songs. And then when you're writing songs, really, you're just kind of like, oh, this thing, you know, you're sort of just chiseling away, and it sort of becomes this little project in your brain, and it takes up a good portion of, and it just, it's kind of bizarrely healthy for me, you know, it feels like good. And I get very excited about that. And, and not to keep saying the same thing, but I'm very appreciative, they still have the same thing. But it's because it's something that I relate to, since I was like a teenager. And and that's how I relate to him. But I think also, maybe quite often, though, like, I think, like, on open tour, too, in general, like, the fourth record was, I do really love that record, too. But it's a very different kind of records. And I think it felt kind of exciting to write a very different record, from that record, do something, maybe have a little bit more guitar riffs. And I think maybe I was just ready for that and just kind of make it like a bit, you know, like bet on us bet on like us playing as playing in a room. And I think that record sounds like us playing together. It really does. It has a strong liveliness to it. And it's a really, you know, we produced that record, we, you know, we put everything we had into it, and it's like, kind of like a betting on us sort of moment, you know, we're, you know, didn't know what's going to happen. But, you know, I would bet on Sam and Paul any day in a row as as artists and as, like, as, as mentioned before they evolve, you know, continuously evolving artists. And I think that record kind of showcases that, you know,
Keith Jopling:yeah, I do, too. I think it's a really, really great record that one, thank you. The art of longevity is a team effort. show is produced by the songs Abellio. That's me, with Project Manager. It's audio engineered and edited by audio culture. Our amazing cover up by the wonderful Nick Clark, and original music for the show, is by Andrew James Johnson. So when you went back to Matador after the adventure with you know, being signed to a major and all of that, the other thing that and I could be completely wrong here because I'm just looking particularly at album covers for one thing, because you have a particular styling. So I will have to admire was, you know, it was lions taking down a deer. And you know, it was no black, no red, no white, no gray. And then that that's come back. And I just wanted to talk to you a little bit bit about that. Because actually, it is important. I think for longevity, there is a brand there that is Interpol. It may not be manufactured as such, but there's some styling going on. What do you think, first of all about the role that plays and how did those aesthetics come along? Because you also you know, you turn up on in pretty smart suits. And people don't bother with that these days. There's a distinctive look and brand to Interpol.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's pretty individual as far as like suits and things like that, and clothes, all this and that. I mean, I wear like a suit every day. Pretty hot out here. But I do still wear a suit jacket, when I go outside. That's just to me, that's just my comfort. This is my thing. So that's just that's something made in the early days, like we just had in common. And I think, you know, we definitely, we individually liked our own, you know, sense of style and so forth. And we also liked having this cohesive thing or kind of like something that made us a band like a little gang aesthetically as far as a record season so for Yeah, I mean to me, it's like the other side of me believe I really love the the artwork on that. I think it's like great and the color scheme. To me, it's like a timeless thing like I will never tire that and I do think it's like a it's a I don't wanna say brand recognition aspect, but it doesn't feel like
Keith Jopling:you know, it's interesting like you say you don't want to see it but essentially there's there is nothing wrong with it. I mean, you'll have you'll Look at the Rolling Stones logo. I mean, they they're proud of that now that it's pretty iconic how it all came about. So I think it's a it's a cool thing. And I think it's an important thing for bands to have a font, a distinctive, consistent look and feel. And especially these days, because there's so much fucking music, that's the thing. You know, if I was sort of flicking through a, in a record store, just based on the cover, like you sometimes do with books, I'd kind of pick out an Interpol record. And it delivers what, what there is on the cover. So somehow, the music inside is it reflected there.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I mean, I feel like the way you I mean, that's interesting that what you just said, that reminds you of being a kid and like, you know, picking up record when you are when you did go to a record store, and then you would put, you know, pick up a piece of vinyl or a CD or whatever. And then you got a sense about what this was about up and pull something out there. You didn't know the band name, you didn't know anything about it. But something about the sleeve. And the design, and maybe the name or whatnot gave you a sense of what it was about. And quite often you were you on point, you're close enough, you know, maybe maybe you didn't love it, or maybe but you know, I mean, you had an idea about that. And there's something that I would imagine these I mean, I don't know, I can't say he I mean it's maybe there are things that he just hit that mark where you know, right away what this is about, for sure. But I don't know if it's same thing, part of what I think what I was even talking about is actually maybe the physical aspect of it, too. We're nowadays obviously we're flooded with like streaming stuff, and every day there's like, you know, so much so so how do you stick out but I agree. I mean, I mean, it's also it's not like we you know, you're talking about our lives or mine when there's like diagramas and so forth and and even before it's pretty different, like 3d, Interpol being like chevre all about, but at the end of the day, I think we're probably known for like, yeah, the red way black. aesthetic, and then I do you know, but then again, like a Murata. We had like, you know, sort of like a Gary Winogrand like photograph who's like, Well, my favorite photograph photographers, and I just can't believe we got to licensed one of his and in a political sort of moments on the cover itself. And so that was kind of a cool thing to do, too. I don't think we have a premise of how we exist. But I felt pretty good. As I was mentioning with what we ended up on for the other side of the make believe does feel like a very in a pool sort of cover. But I love those man, I love the image between fellas in a museum. And I saw that image with the mirror and the knife and staring and I probably would stop and consider for a second.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I mean, I like it too. And I think it's coming back, which is a good thing. I think it's coming back because of the vinyl resurgence, mostly. But also, I think it's just important in that, you know, standing out and representing the art, you know, it's back to those days of hypnosis. Before it was a company that bought up music rights. It was a design agency that did all those kinds of 70s, classic Pink Floyd, covers and UFO and, you know, all those bands, and they would literally be paid, you know, 10s of 1000s, like a design agency and a brief and it's been weeks and weeks and that, you know, but it's sort of, it's built to last because of that, which is cool, I
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:think. I agree. I agree. And and maybe even more. So as I said, like, I haven't really, really examined, I don't spend that much time examining what is out there and how many 1000s of releases there are per day and what that covers look like and so, but I would imagine have Yes, yeah, so my hobby, but I would imagine having a little bit of a strong identity and something that kind of like, speaks to the aesthetic of the band, you know, that's recognizable, you know, aesthetically, is an important thing to have in this in this day and age in this. Yeah. Yeah.
Keith Jopling:It's cool. All right, Daniel, we don't have too much time left. I'm aware of that. So it's really just about wrapping up and finding what's next. Really, I guess, you know, 2022 is an interesting year for you. It's 20th anniversary of your debut album. But a few years ago, you toured that whole album. So you kind of have done that. And 25 years as a as a band. So how are you celebrating if you're celebrating?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I mean, I feel it's the celebration is the fact that you know, you make a new record and that you feel very enthusiastic about that you feel pretty, you know, very strong about that. You're very excited about that people. So yeah, have a visceral reaction to it. So to me that's like that celebration that you get so do this and that you still feel very incentivized for what you're doing. Right. Like that's crazy to you know, to be here talking to you be doing this you are going on on a tourist spoon. It's amazing. Like who you know, if you told me this 20 years ago, they're like, No way. So that said that it really is a celebration. Now.
Keith Jopling:It was really interesting to hear you say that turn on the bright lights was kind of an ending for you. You know, it's like almost closure was right there. So it's kind of nice to think about that being out of No, you didn't expect it to be the beginning of the 20 year The journey but you're in a place that I know from the conversations I have with bands that are starting out now. And they're God knows how many of them, you're in a place they want to be, you know, you're not reliant on anything, you know, you're not even reliant on a hit, because you don't need hits. How do you reflect on the band's success?
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:I mean, to me, it's, it's, it's a little bit unreal, it's very dreamlike, I don't want to keep saying we're like, it's, it's, it's a really humbling kind of in place to be in in some and a very privileged one. Again, it's not lost on me. And I do feel very grateful for you know, like I was saying before, those first five years in hindsight, were put this foundation and I do sympathize for those bands that are breaking out now. Like, it'd be really hard or if you started getting too much attention, or if you start getting too much attention too soon. And this, this error, I feel like that's like that could be like a death hold a little bit. Because, you know, you know, it's like, Oh, my God, you don't you haven't been given that time to sort of formulate to get to know each other, maybe as a band, maybe you just met months ago, and now everyone's like, trying to sign you and I don't know, it just feels like a little strange. And I think it's, it's, you need that time. So to the Yeah, to me, it's like, it's crazy, we get to still do this, and, and to still have this feeling of like, this is really important. To me, this is a big part of my life, and maybe even more so now than ever, in the sense that when you are playing shows, and you do look out there, it's like, it's an amazing thing to go up on sliders, you know, to play songs that resonate with people, and you see it on their faces globally, you know, and culturally, it's just really, it's such a, it transcends cultures and languages and so forth. And I think maybe even I was like, maybe like, when you're like in your 20s, whatever you're doing this, you, maybe you're thinking about those things, but you're not thinking about these terms like this sort of, like, you know, what, you know, the sort of very barren sort of, like, wow, this is what, uh, what, what is it about music that even resonates with humans? Why do we have the sort of reactions and crazy things, so it'd be up here doing this. And I will say, though, as much as we have, you know, our fans, really the best fans are, you know, the very, you know, they're so loyal, and they're just really so supportive. I do think, you know, one thing I have in those things, since we started playing shows this year, there's a lot of young fans out there. There's a lot of people coming in to shows, and it's really incredible. See, because we don't put our records that frequently, you know, every, like, average of four years. So you'll see fans and the audience close up, that are mounting, every single word says, you know, not just like, the evils in slow hands, but like songs like deep cuts, and they're really owning it. And it's something that like, it makes me think of my teenage years when I felt that way, when I was, you know, like, you know, like, they're like, Pete, they're like the some of these, I would say they're like 18 year olds, and it makes me think, Okay, well, four years ago, they were like, 14, they probably didn't know we were for it, you know, you know, when they were 14. So in that time, they might have had like this musical journey, and they had that discovery. And then maybe they went down that rabbit hole where you start, like discovering bands, and then you start owning those bands. And that's what it looks like to me in the audience. So it's a really amazing thing to see this in several countries now that resonating with young fans. So that's I know, that's a rarity in the same age, because it's just like, the music genres have really shifted and so forth.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I mean, a rarity in some ways, but I think probably is happening more easily, and others because of streaming, like, you know, the 90s or having a moment for sure. I mean, if you look at kids in Nirvana T shirts, and the amount of Cher kids listening to Nirvana. And actually the period that we're you came through in the early 2000s is having a moment as well, because it's starting to appeal to that generation, they realized that's what comes next. And so we got to Primavera sound, and you're, you're playing on the same bill as the strokes and all these bands that have its kids in the audience. And it's, that must be really great, but it is, I think it's part of the streaming culture, which I think that's one of the many benefits of streaming whilst there's, you know, many evils that we know of, but that's for sure. It's just the way you reach new audiences. And
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:for me, even when when antics elite two weeks after we finished recording it, there was a part of me that you know, one part was like, oh, yeah, it's unfortunate. Another part I was like, well, in some ways that she's pretty amazing. It's kidding maybe Liz like in a remote part of the world or has tastes for you know, certain types of music and so forth, but isn't punished by that your geographical location and there isn't like, a cool record store that they can now if they have the desire to find the music, they can find it and those like, oh, so one part music has potential to be uh, you know, at an all time popularity because if you live in a remote part of the world that you don't you know, you can you have access to it. And there's something very exciting about that, and I still hold fast to that idea.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, I didn't want to get too metaphorical about it. But on the closer the new album, there's a track which I really like or go easy, which has a positive note to it, but but it is kind of what we're talking about. Only pull back to singing. I'll keep pushing forward all the ups Because in my way have been falling, which is part of it as well, I was thinking, well, is that a hark back to obstacles one or two? Or am I reading too much into that? You
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:might be reading too much. But I do think it's a positive. Like, I feel like there was like when we're writing and before and Paul started writing the verses, it was just, you know, it was it was kind of like he was seeing Go Easy over and over again. And it was sort of I think it was like maybe the first time that we sort of working on of the new batch, and this kind of felt like a mantra, and it felt like definitely a mantra for the last few years. And yeah, it's something that we all probably can relate to an extent. Yeah, like
Keith Jopling:that. Yes. Something of a kind of a tonic in a way. Okay. Well, look, I mean, Daniel has been a real pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for coming on the show. Whatever you do next, I'll look forward to it. But I particularly will look forward to Interpol and spoon because I thought it had happened already.
Unknown:booked your ticket come
Keith Jopling:out. I gotta get myself over to the US. Do it.
Daniel Kessler, Interpol:Let us know. Okay, man, thank you so much for the time. Thanks for the questions. Thanks, Daniel.
Unknown:Take care