Keith Jopling: 5:47

to the Art of longevity. How are you, Danny?

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 5:49

I'm very good. Mr. Good. How are you?

Keith Jopling: 5:52

Yeah, I'm good. Thanks. Now looking forward to this conversation. So we're about a year the minute I'm

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 5:58

at the studio, Mitch, actually, Bob is got studio and I'm there. We're gonna be editing the video for the next album track after this interview, so that's why I'm here. Yes,

Keith Jopling: 6:11

it's been a busy time for you, you've got a new record coming out how to be a person like other people. So tell me a little bit about that. Is this sort of guide for life's introverts and misfits? That sounds like it?

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 6:26

Yeah, it's, it's kind of weird to come to that conclusion about myself that I'm an introvert. Given that, you know, I'm a singer in a band who sings in front of 1000s of people and, and, but the truth is probably Yeah, I am introverted. I find I'm much more comfortable in my own company than I am. Particularly when there's a crowd of people who I don't know, they're, I don't really enjoy social situations normally. So yeah. And the album is, because I would never you know, if you'd have asked me, even five years ago, if you'd have said I was an extra five years ago, I would probably said, Well, yeah, that makes and so I'm a singer in a band. I'm quite, I'm quite outwardly competent. You know, I've got a lot of, I'm a frontman, for God's sake, you know. But actually, like, as I've gotten to know, myself, which is something that's kind of happened over the last few years, I've discovered quite a lot of things about me, and one of them is that I am actually an introvert. It's weird to learn these kinds of things, like when you like 50. But most people know this about themselves, probably in their teens. So it's kind of odd that I was so unconnected to who I am and how I connect to the rest of the planet that I haven't sort of realized this. But yeah, realizing it's been a bit of an eye opener, and I kinda, I'm able to deal a lot better, like a lot of things mix. And now, you know, like, for instance, in the pandemic, when everyone else was really suffering because of the social isolation, I didn't suffer from that aspect of it all, you know, I actually quite enjoyed that aspect of it. Which is really weird. And I also found like, other introverts were the same, you know, there was a lot of people SOPs, and that and that's kind of where I started to learn that, you know, maybe I'm maybe I'm introvert. How's

Keith Jopling: 8:39

it been for you going out on stage, since you've had this revelation?

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 8:44

That was telling us, you know, I'm still, I can still perform, I can still, the funny thing is, is being on stage is one of the few places where I feel really comfortable. I feel I feel alive. I feel like I've got purpose. I feel like, this is my dog, man, you know, realize much more of a fish out of water. You know, there's which is I suppose ironic, because like a normal person, you know, so for instance, my wife, even when there's no one in the audience, even soundcheck just walking on the stage to bring me a bottle of water is scary. Because there's all the lights and you know, you're on stage. And I've had, like, bring this stuff on stage when there's been a crowd there and she can hardly walk. She's sort of terrified. But I think I think, you know, the normal response to that, you know, whereas for me, yeah, you know, I have some trepidation and some sort of anxiety, you know, anticipation and nerves before you go onstage, of course, but once once you've done a song or two and everything's work in is sort of settle into this magical place where, you know, I just feel a hug, you know?

Keith Jopling: 10:06

I mean, I guess as an introvert, you know, you still need that human connection. And maybe you can get that even better, as you say, in a crowd of strangers than you can face to face with someone in a room, a party, you know, because that's where it's awful for introverts. That's the worst.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 10:23

The human connection thing is thing that I've been missing and how to be a professional like other people is basically what my wife has on me. And, and therapy. And, yeah, I'm from shaved red, this bike came from the script, the joke. In it, he's watch Maura, the talk show host introduces guests, and is, is wondering how he's going to behave when he's a guest on it later on. So he's watching the guests walk on and shake hands and how this fit and is learning how to be a person like other people. And I thought that really, that line just really caught me and made me think that's what I'm doing right now. Yeah, it was a real, a real epiphany. And it just felt like even though it's a long title, it just felt really perfect as the title for the album, because it kind of encapsulates everything that the album is about. It's great that you can

Keith Jopling: 11:28

do that, you know, that you can sort of take inspiration from any walk of life, be it a film, or just a passing remark and turn it into a theme for a record, I find that you know, just totally magical, really.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 11:41

Wow, thanks very much. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the gig, really. I mean, that was one time when I was with, I was with this girl, and we were fed out. And the relationship really wasn't working. And I was such trying to figure it out. And then you know, and that's how these Gulf fish on this fg you know, you know, the thing where you throw a ball enough in a hole, and you win a goldfish. That was one of the things I was just looking at these girls fish, of hanging from the roof of this little Hall. And it just felt like one of the goldfish I just thought, what must it be like to be like, stuck in like, six inches of water, looking at looking through a translucent window on a world enjoying his health. And it's really struck me and I wrote this line. fairground fish of a day in which to be lost at sea swept hon tide. Yeah, that

Keith Jopling: 12:45

was on the Embrace album, wasn't it? Yeah, it's

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 12:47

one. I think this deck, it's, which is one of the piece packs. And yeah, so like, there's, there's loads of loads of times like that, when a thought something in a situation, and then it's become, you know, either a title or a lyric. But I mean, that's basically what I'm doing all the time, I'm always, I think I have quite an unusual way of looking at the world. And things aren't quite idiosyncratic. And, and so that means, you know, hopefully, it's quite fresh for most people. But then the ironic thing is, is that the way that most people view the world is really fresh to me. So that's what I'm learning now is like, Oh, this is what everybody means by why you enjoy the situation, Oh, this isn't some kind of like a kid in a sweet shop, like learning all these really basic things that most people learn in their teens.

Keith Jopling: 13:41

It's really interesting, because I think our general, I mean, we're a similar age. So I think our generation, you know, we are discovering, we grew up with all kinds of challenges and issues that were at the time just totally dismissed like you, okay, at school, you're a bit shy, or a bit introverted, or you got to come out your shell or whatever, or, you know, you're distracted, and all these things have become sort of carefully diagnosed now, generation is very aware of the challenges they've got in life. We're just discovery. We're looking back and thinking, that explains it.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 14:14

Well, I only found out in the past year us for the eyeshadows. Ed, like, before that I was sort of diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. And it's like, yeah, I did have a disorder because of a trauma that happened to me, but the disorder that I got was a CD, you know, so, but that was never, you know, a cop. But that wasn't, you know, when I had this, it was in the late late 80s, early 90s known, I haven't even been invented, you know, read from it, but no one knew what the fuck it was. I think the whole spectrum of neuro divergence now is a field that people are really learning about. And I think that that's correct, because When I was 19, I really suffered on my own for a really long time and I was worried I was gonna get locked up and all that sort of stuff. But now, like could just be able to go online and ask some questions and they'd probably be a group and support and you know, all kinds of things that there weren't then.

Keith Jopling: 15:20

The author of longevity is presented with Bowers and Wilkins, a premium British audio brand. Bowers and Wilkins loudspeakers are trusted by some of the world's leading recording studios, including Abbey Road. It's a pleasure to have Bowers and Wilkins supporting the show. So Danny, this album is going to be your eighth studio album. I mean, there was a time a few years ago, I work in the industry. So we were kind of absorbed in this world where the music industry was kind of being destroyed by downloading and definitely changed by streaming. But it seems to me like the album's made a bit of a comeback.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 15:59

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've got reservations about that, because what happened was a bunch of hedge fund gangsters held the music industry to ransom. And they've still got all the money is not, for me. Hanging exam of capitalism really work in Vienna. In

Keith Jopling: 16:21

a way the music industry is both representing commerce in general, but it's even more exaggerated. I mean, when you look at, you know, the position of artists, worst

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 16:32

in the music industry, because the people who generate the ink are doing it for love, they're not doing it for money. It's almost like nurses as well, like nurses and doctors, it's a verb cash, and it's something that you do, you don't do it for the money, you do it, because it's what you feel like you're born to do. And that's why there gets hit advantage of as well, you know, nurses get treated poorly, because they'll do it for free, or most of them because they just, it's just what they were born to do, you know, the pandemic, you know, this horrible crisis. So, like a five fold increase in recruitment of new nurses because they want to they want to help, you know, even though Hey, is worse than ever, even though you know that the tourism mechanism that foreigners are welcome you know, even I'll even in, even in spite of all that, and there's, there's some parallels to be drawn in music, you know, the people who earn all the money are doing it for the love.

Keith Jopling: 17:31

I think after 22 years in the business, now, I think I'm becoming optimistic, because I can see, I think, the next generation of platforms, whatever they may be, and, you know, I'm loving these conversations every day with kind of entrepreneurs and, and some of the businesses that we're looking to change. They're putting the creator and creator remuneration a little bit more at the center than they have in the past.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 17:57

They will always give the appearance of that. And there will always make it look like that's the direction that they're going in. But if there's any real money to be made, the billionaires will lap it up, because billionaires are always going to billionaire that.

Keith Jopling: 18:14

They've got big Hoover's. Yeah. Well, it's funny. The other parallel that you mentioned, were nurses, I can see that as well in music, because one of the things I find truly remarkable is like people are not put off. There's more young guitar bands these days that I think I can remember.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 18:32

Well, yeah, because we're not doing it for money. We're doing it for like it was never about money. Like, I mean, one of the good things, if there is a tiny silver lining, it's there any artists that were doing it on it, I've gone just the very, very, very small silver lining. And come to your question. Like the thing about vinyl is like, yeah, you know, people, people are buying vinyl, because they want to earn something that they feel that the artist is getting at least some money from them doing that. And that's a wonderful instinct. But actually, you know, for that it's a vinyl record costs, you know, let's say 50. Let's just say for ease of round figures, let's just say 50 quid, the band probably ends up getting about a fiver of that. You know, there's always loads of people that got that have their hand out, or the money gets to you. T shirts is another one. You know, let's say you spent 50 quid on a t shirt, the band will see a fiver of that as well. ers is another one that Performing Rights society. You know, they do all these initiatives about how we're about new music. Now, we're about this. Now we're about that. How about you just have a completely transparent thing done on a computer, you get rid of the entire administration and system completely and just have it all done automatically. And everybody gets to see transparently where the money is, instead of you On millennia of yourself and your job, yeah, there's

Keith Jopling: 20:04

a quote, isn't there about sort of money? I think it comes from, you know, the kind of corruption in nations that governments were famous for. But before it reaches you, the person who's meant to earn it sort of, it's got stuck to the sides of bastards. Anyway, anyway, you've made it through all this. You could, yeah. In spite of all that, so since 1990, you sailed past to Qatar 30 year anniversary, I guess that happened in the eye of the needle of the pandemic. So how you celebrate it if you have celebrated? And how do you reflect on your success over that time? Well,

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 20:42

we've had a pitch. We did that during the academic just because, you know, rather than going stir crazy, let's do something because we don't do any gigs and stuff. And also as a way of making some money to help, you know, keep the wolf in the dog purse. during a pandemic, the government didn't give it give any support out bands or a self employed. It was a wonderful because we were able to go back through all the old stuff that we've got over there like the year so there's like some video stuff on there from before we even find and there's like, recording the first album and just loads and loads and loads of footage, loads of video footage that we all had in our lofts. And he's our best player went through it all. And start putting together these little 1015 minute films like little documentaries, little edits together with a bit of a narrative thread and some some graphics and stuff describing what's going on. And it was wonderful, because they're able to just have a real like nostalgic trip down memory lane. And remember stuff that I've completely forgotten about that have happened to us over the years. And, you know, in spite of all the stuff that we was saying before about the hedge on gangsters, which you know, if you're getting started on that topic, or shops, as you can tell, I think there are two apps. But we've had a wonderful career in spite of that, surrounding us, in spite of this has been everywhere, we've been on our little Lola and we've been around in the water, you know, that wonderful quote is, and I really love that brands and transferred said about how our bands got through those four stages. I just really love that for them, I think he's perfect for him. But for us, we've almost done it twice, or even three times. It's not about the struggle at the beginning. And then the stratospheric rise, and then the hash down. But then we've come back up again. And then we crash back down again. And they'll come back up again. But at some

Keith Jopling: 22:54

point, I'm going to plot out Brett's curve, and actually Brett's due to come on, so I can't wait for that episode, it's gonna be a really fun chat. I pick that up and having spent 22 years in the industry and kind of strategy positions or you know, the exact positions in companies and then doing a bit of writing. I'm fascinated by how bands map onto that process. And some bands have been through that whole cycle twice, maybe three.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 23:20

Yeah, I really I really love sweat in the early days. In fact, just a few days ago, someone found a video of me at this fed gig duchy car really early, even though the first album out, and I'm in the audience and you can see me and I think I was about 2122 Something like that. Me and Richard sort of watching spread and taking notes was longest part of the band got a record deal or anything. So yeah, I mean, I have followed them all the way through their career, but I really loved him in the early days. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 23:57

they're still going strong. I mean, they've got a new album coming out. It might even be the same day as yours. I'm not sure but that their last album, The Blue ours was fantastic. I mean, I do find it fascinating that bands of longevity are coming through now with some of the best records are love. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what's in the water. You know, I think it might be back to what we were talking about with the resurgence of the album, just putting the craft into making an album in a in an old fashioned sense again, and it's paying off creatively.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 24:32

Yeah, I don't think I don't think we ever stopped doing that. But certainly think that this album is a little notch above what we've been doing recently. That not sure why that is. I mean, some of it might be the pandemic and that we really had time to rads songs and make sure that all the songs were in pairs before we went into the studio. They might be just in clothes that you know the person Tess has been stopped us from Russia in stopped us from sort of going off half baked. But our it might just be, you know, how my life is, as recently and so I feel a lot more inspired I've got a lot more to write about, is a really strong collections songs on this new album. Great. Well, I'm

Keith Jopling: 25:20

looking forward to hearing that. I admire the way that you've approached your albums and your career. Because, you know, I've read a lot about you're always keen to stress that you want to keep on getting better. And I guess that is essentially that's the key to longevity, you've got to be hungry. But you know, how have you kind of seen that with your band members because the other unusual thing about embrace in this context is the same lineup as the very beginning. You've been through it together, they've been no changes. No one's left. No one's come in. So how have you kind of seen your band members kind of really come on as musicians first and foremost, but as people as well?

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 26:04

Yeah, I mean, that is that is true. There's very, very, very few bands. There's like, bands at our level that that have been hemline UPS since the beginning. You know, radio had one used to or another? Coldplay

Keith Jopling: 26:22

another? I mean, they're all friends of yours, in a sense. You know, those guys? Yeah,

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 26:28

yeah, I think me and Richard beam brothers, ironically, a really helped. Because if anyone's got a problem, we we don't we haven't split into like political factions where, you know, some bands in you might get either manager in the queue, Bob is tied together, the drummer and the guitarist together, you know, and so you get like little Fach developing bands. With embrace, it's like, if me and Richard agree on something, then it gets done, you know. And if we disagree, then we argue. So there's no there's no resentment, or buildup of resentment. It's like, it gets hard. And, you know, I think I think we all we all play a vital role in, in the way that embrace works as a machine, you know, if one of us is Miss in, you really feel the difference. It's like, if there's like a vital ingredient, birth as a group of people, you know, when we're on. And here is like, when we're in the studio, and on stage, when we're when we're playing live, you know, so obviously, you know, playing live, if there's no drums, it's, you're gonna see that, when we're in the studio, it's much more like, you know, are in person, it's more like Steve is like, hi, often the finals on things is like the voice of reason, it'll be really higher. And then at the end of May, I'll look in one sentence and nail it, you know, I tend to be quite impatient. But that impatience leads to a lot of creative Fritsch and which is where the sparks come from. And I think everybody just knows that we are what we are, we respect what we are, and we allow each other to be who we are, because we know that it's important to the work the whole. And I think it's always, it's always been like that to some degree. Another thing is, I think it's just the look that we've got the right blend personality types. Like I'm fairly out. I don't know if you know about that. My wife used to be a management consultants. They describe people in like four different colors. But you've got red is like, you know, your big ideas and blah, blah, blah, and then you've got like your blue, which is more analytic, or you've got your green, and then you've got your yellow, which is more sort of oil and stuff. Or we've got a nice mix of those rollers. But yeah, I don't know why it works. You know, I'm glad it does. And we and we need to be getting closer. The more you know, the more we know each other. Me Like, think that my life would be better if he was a bit more like MC. So at the moment, I'm really a MC

Keith Jopling: 29:39

it's good for you to know that though. That's the thing. I think, you know, you've clearly over those years. And it's interesting that you know, you mentioned that the core of it. It's you and Richard as brothers. I mean, you could teach a few other rock'n'roll brothers a few tricks, I think, from that perspective, but, you know, it's sort of once you do Leave the egos to one side or even understand where your ego comes from a little bit more, whether it's a particular personality type or you know, your life stage, whatever you going through, you can recognize it. And it's all about awareness, isn't it? I think that's probably where the management consultancy tip comes in. It's about self awareness and awareness as a band. Yeah,

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 30:22

definitely. I mean, you know, how to be first like other people. Well, I've everybody in the band, that one who's the most like personal like other people is definitely MC is like, whenever we go anywhere new. Whenever we have to sort of press the flesh, whenever we have to sort of put on a handle if as we end making first.

Keith Jopling: 30:48

You can send mekin to work the room. Yeah. Like that. Yeah, it doesn't play into superpowers. Yeah,

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 30:56

we've all got our own superpowers. We all respect what they are. And it's like, you know

Keith Jopling: 31:00

what I did? He doesn't mind. Oh, no. He's

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 31:04

lived for It's what he's about. That's why he's so good is a real people. You know,

Keith Jopling: 31:11

Keith, here, thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please tell your friends, listen back to the other episodes. And don't forget to subscribe on whatever podcast platform you listen to the conversation. Well, I wanted to ask you about the height of stuff. Because I'm thinking about expanding this as a theme, it's definitely emerged as a theme to longevity is taking some time out. I mean, how important was that for you as a band? Because it was quite a long one.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 31:46

Yeah, well, we, it was a weird one, because our fifth album went number one. And we were really successful, the band was doing the biggest gigs we'd ever done doing arenas, and, you know, all sorts of sort of, if not a less than definitely be list things were happening, you know, getting us to be helms getting us to be on stupid games, us and you know, just all that all the stuff that happens to you when you start to get properly famous. But were you we didn't really love that album. It was like, we loved work with you in Spain. And the album was written in like a couple of weeks, just from champion as a band, which was immense on an incredibly, if, but then we spend weeks produce the album, and it just didn't really, we didn't really love it at the end. And so there was this big, sort of dark part of me and he the massive success that we were having, and how we felt about where we work. Exactly. And it was just like I said, Everybody's are is like we need a break. Because we need to remember why we're doing this. And you know, it isn't too big of a mess, it's to be good, be really good and reach people and who you know, make great art really, and that's enough, like, you know, scream you're not alone from the speakers is all I ever really want to do with with us Hong's and, and I didn't feel that we were we were honoring that we had a break and initially it was just meant to be for a few months. And in the end it ended up being he is. And then when we went back into the studio, we were very much of the mind right we need to reinvent the wheel now. And that took a while you know that album was like three or four years in the making. And yeah, you know, it's a great album I've so love that album. It's not really an embrace album, which is ironic because we call it embrace but it is it is embrace having a goal of being something else. And I think as an experiment, it really worked great stuff on there. But it's not an experiment that I really want to pay again you know, I'm think what embrace is really special. And what we had been doing with our energy is mine in that and going deep and getting better at that and using our energy on that almost like instead of cast the net wide. Or you know, how in the field wide. We wanted to dig down where we are and see what there is in the ground, you know, big ass then we will be honoring. You know what we've been given as a Group, the stuff that will get will be better, I

Keith Jopling: 35:03

think. Yeah, that's interesting, because you obviously learned that from the whole process of the hiatus, and again, you know, to sort of quit while you are ahead, at least for a while, I think was probably hard thing to do. But in retrospect, a smart decision. And that was the end of just for context. That was, when you'd made this new day album, you took that three year break, and then you went into making embrace? Yeah. And I really do love that record, I have to say creatively, you did achieve what you wanted to achieve. And I'm curious as to what kind of led you back to the core, because so much had changed in the seven years, or even eight years, by the time you released it? Yes. And I just wondered, like, what were your expectations, because having poured everything into making a record, and yet one that was different from other stuff that you've done, and, you know, I think is close to a masterpiece as you can get, I really do think it's special. From that. Did you have expectations? When you released it? Did you manage them? Because in the end, by the time 2014, came around, releasing albums was a completely different kettle of fish. Yeah,

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 36:17

you know, it's very clear that instead of doing 300,000 albums, you do 30,000 albums. And that's just how it is. Alright,

Keith Jopling: 36:26

I might have to come back to you on this. Because I think there's a story here, because you spent essentially, you kind of took a break up, as you say, at the peak of your own fame as a band, put all that time into a creative project when the whole industry or was just shifting in a way that we've never seen before. Yeah, I thought it was good. But I mean, for releasing albums of the band, it was probably not in

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 36:52

the shot. It's good for the consumer, because you're getting the you're getting millions of rec cards for the price of like, one every month. So from a consumers point of view, it's unbeatable. But from a producer's point of view, and from an industry point of view, and from an app, if you is an absolute disaster, as you say, a dichotomy there. And you know, yeah, sure. There's like, there's like people in record companies and people who vote, if done well out of it all. But they haven't. None of them have. Yeah, I

Keith Jopling: 37:35

think it's absolutely worth dwelling on, to some extent, how that can change.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 37:43

Well, listen to the artists. Yeah, absolutely. The guy from Gomez on from Gomez is doing has like Brooke, in record campaign. That's really good. He's, you know, sort of going into parliament and having inquiries and all kinds of stuff. And he's making progress, but it's slow, and it's hard.

Keith Jopling: 38:09

I think he is making progress. I think it's Tom Gray, isn't it? You know, he's got industry roles. And I think he is making progress. And wise is he is articulate as an artist because I think in the past, you know, the artists have not quite understood what's been going on around them, and they've spoken passionately. And they've been articulate about their plight and you know, what it is to be a sustainable creative. But I think the difference with Tom is he's sort of a speaking to the public, as well as to the government. So I actually think like all things like the like the changes to the environment, like the changes to mental health we've talked about before, I do think the consumer has got to realize, to your point earlier that convenience isn't and binging on music for a tenner a month isn't the answer. The art of longevity is a team effort. show is produced by the songs of Lea, that's me, with Project Manager. It's audio engineered and edited by audio culture. Our amazing cover up is by the wonderful Mick Clark. And original music for the show is by Andrew James Johnson. I want to come on to another subject in a way because embraces another member of an exclusive club of artists who've also been through the big drop. So you know, you've made three records, or with an independent label that all been good records. They're all progressive. But of course your debut was was a classic in a sense, you were dropped and then you went on and made your best record.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 39:53

Most successful I don't know if it's our best. You could argue it's our best you know, I think the first ones still pictures. Still just picks it to the past, but it's maybe our second best. Yeah. Okay.

Keith Jopling: 40:06

Was there a sense of rallying around and just going right? We're just going to prove everyone wrong here.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 40:12

Well, yeah, I mean, right. That energy that like, where the troops, you know, we need to go a battle. We're all in this together, we've got everything to lose. But as her written again, is a really good spirit. Don't ever make the album. You know, we write recreate that spirit with every album that we do now. Yeah, we had it with the fourth album. We didn't have it with the fifth album. But then yeah, we had it with the sixth heaven for ninth albums. And we added with the first album, so the albums that we didn't have it were with were the second, the third and the fifth. And then probably our albums. I think I think third is the weakest then the fifth. And then yeah, I can give you the order. The abreast of exactly also do this with radio.

Keith Jopling: 41:03

There's a rank your own records. I think it was vice that does regular record. If they're still doing it should you should go on. Looking back on it, you can see where what was coming from them. When after that third record, they were like, Okay, let's call it a day.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 41:18

It was just about the money for the guys. It's a tech and the music industry. And basically everyone got hired. And they just looked at the numbers, and the numbers weren't work. Or the letters go, but they were always really good. I've not got bad words about they were always really good.

Keith Jopling: 41:43

So a brutal commercial decision. Yeah.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 41:46

I mean, I mean, that's not brutal. Just a commercial decision, you know, like they weren't make money, their business. Sorry. That's how it is. And, you know, and turn that completely and just real life, you know, it's just you've got to if you want to be in a creative pursuit and get money, you've got to make money.

Keith Jopling: 42:07

Was it disorientating? At the time, it was weird, because

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 42:12

we got the news on Rich's birthday. So it's like our manager, Angus, went up a birthday, Rick, and you've been dropped. Okay, we've managed to get some money out of the record company for releasing their greatest hits. They gave us like 50. And during that, we just took all that money into building this studio. And then we just spent the next few years in there work on what came out enough. And, you know, then then yeah, that went on to be our biggest rec pod rather than the first three put together, so did all right.

Keith Jopling: 42:54

And famously at the time, Chris Martin, who's a friend did you a favor, he basically rewrote fireworks didn't even give it back.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 43:03

Well, I mean, I joked with Chris about this, I've got a good relationship with him. And we really like each other. And he knows what I am. And I know what he is. And I can just speak my mind with him as a really blunt stuff and RMS interconnect cope. We're basically embrace with little blue speckles. Like that, you know, like when you've got Daz the new blue Wagner version of the old does. Absolutely. And he was really sweet about it. He said, Yeah, you know, we've sort of both sort of said, like, if I had his personal voice, we probably would have been as big as them. It's like, I think of him. I think he is an incredible, man. And I think we're really diff. And, you know, I think they're really bring something new to the table that is completely different from Embrace. But yeah, they do do embrace really well, as well. And I think I think gravity is up there. And to be fair, Chris did say, it sounds too much like embrace for us to use.

Keith Jopling: 44:17

I can't get with the version that I have to say. I mean, it's because it's very slow. Did you speed it up? Yeah,

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 44:24

yeah. Yeah, we sped it up and that a lot of that was down to use, you know, the produce went along and sticking them up under it and all the rest of it. But yeah, you know, I think also as well, you know, we've been guilty of having to go up being you know, there's songs that we've done maybe even on the on the fifth album, that definitely have a bit of a vibe about and I think no us, as a club, have hype about it. And you know, we've used that box drumbeat once or twice. So I think you know, good ideas. They're there for whoever wants them. It's that old adage. Hello, Helen Poros genius tales, you know, and he's definitely a genius. You know, not always about that. I mean, this is Britain's absolutely, you know, timeless songs. You can't do it that way. I mean,

Keith Jopling: 45:20

I agree, I think he did take your quote about Blue speckles, and pushed it a bit too far. But I mean, I just think they're a great rock band. And to your point, actually, you know, in terms of embraces sound, there's two sides to it, which fascinates me, you do the emotional stuff so well. And that is, you know, the ballad side of things, if you want to call it ballad, and it's probably not the right word. But you do that so well, and it's, there's an emotional quality to your voice and to the way the band plays. On the other hand, when you rock out, you're a proper rock and roll band.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 45:58

Yeah, that's more down to Richard. And Mike. It's like, I guess, you know, I mean, I would never ever come close the Beatles, because obviously, they're the best band ever evolved. But I'm Marge. Lennon enriched his mob. Army. Army. So you know, he's much more got the rock vise, and, you know, the house cow type? Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 46:23

I mean, I sometimes wonder how non embrace fans or maybe casual fans just don't realize that there's a side to you around that I'm in tracks like, Yeah, you?

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 46:35

Yeah, there's a new one. There's a one on the new album, called runaway with me. That's really, really long. Yeah, I think that's one of the good things about this album is that we were able to release a couple songs that were just bands efforts. And not necessarily, you know, we were aiming at Radio. Whereas in the past, it's always been singles that you release, so the ones that you think radio will go off, because otherwise why bother release a single, you know, and the ones that read your golf are always the best indication for an albums like, we've had like grit on that, you know, people who aren't maybe embrace hands have never heard in us stuff like reach head, and that's how much pinch ever dropped from memory and all that remains. And, you know, they're all songs that are great, but we've never released singles. So yeah, and then I was like, hey, on the rocks. And as well, Venus was like, new item, new Eve. On the new album, there's one called runaway with me. And yeah, yeah, you brothers and sisters, stuff like that, again, songs that are great, but we've never released singles. Or unless you're, you know, an album buyer or another band. You both know about that aspect of the band. Now,

Keith Jopling: 48:02

I love that aspect of the band personally, I think because it's it's the kind of no holds barred. hard edged Rock Tracks, like even smaller stones near life. Some of my favorites. I mean, they're big rock. I mean, you, you too, would be doing well, too. I think they'd probably have stolen a few ideas from me in the past.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 48:23

Oh, yeah, definitely listen to you. And yeah.

Keith Jopling: 48:29

Yeah, I've done it there for years apart. But yeah, they're definitely related.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 48:34

But that is absolutely fine. Because we've been influenced by you. Who and me it's just like it. You know, it's like, it's absolutely fair enough. I'm not gonna begrudge YouTube that been inspired by yours because it's definitely been the other way around. You know,

Keith Jopling: 48:51

ya know, you got to take it as a compliment. And yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I know we don't have that much time left. Danny, I've got a couple of more questions. We've talked a lot about the ups and downs. And you know, the roller coaster ride and the crazy machinations of the business. When did you realize that embrace was in it for the long game like as long as you wanted to do it? If you'd like you've crossed the Rubicon? Was there a point where you thought that we could just keep doing this forever? And we'll, we'll always have a fan base.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 49:22

Well, it's a weird one that there was a moment just when we got dropped after the third album where we were, we were doing a gig at the Royal Albert Hall, which gets pulled out ironically. And I thought as I walked on the on this probably the last time that I ever saw this pic again, it might be over. And that was a weird, a weird feeling. But then we were like, you know, like, had we just put all the money into the video got our heads on a med our biggest albums. I think as a band And we will give up on it. It won't give up on us. I think we will walk. We will get pushed. If it does, and it will be because one of the band members are setting off. Yeah, I

Keith Jopling: 50:18

think that's it. I think that is you crossing that Rubicon to be in control of your own destiny in that sense. You can't be dropped anymore because you can't release. We

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 50:30

can't be dropped. We just met, we just were just released on our own record. Label, you know, so

Keith Jopling: 50:36

you're always going to be welcome. Touring. You know, your fan base is loyal. And I mean, the gigs are great. I mean, you know, you're a great live band. So it is a moment to celebrate 32 years in the music business. And still going strong. Yeah,

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 50:50

well, I mean, we actually just heard Yeah, in like the night is like, really early night this? Oh, yeah, it is. It is like the idea since we, since me and Richard and Mike and we got together. We got a record deal in 96. But yeah, we were going for about six years before that. So yeah, we have been together like for years now.

Keith Jopling: 51:15

You definitely had the struggle at the beginning. Oh, fuck yeah. How do you think you'd fare if you were making your first record in the industry

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 51:26

today? I think we do. All right, because I think I got the people is kinda timeless. And, you know, I think any new bands that aren't like that haven't minutes as their first single people would pay attention. And so I think would be alright. I've often wondered what I would do. You know, there's that element there where that guy has the entire back catalogue of the Beatles. And no one knows that the Beatles have ever existed a cabin will have call yesterday,

Keith Jopling: 51:59

yesterday. Yeah. Richard Curtis number that one? Yeah,

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 52:04

I often, you know, if I'm in the bath, or whatever, I'll have like this, or what would I do? If I was at the beginning of our career, and I had all those songs that we've ever written, what are they what they really mean? And you know,

Keith Jopling: 52:16

there's probably a lot that you can mine and a lot of stuff that your fans are interested in. And I think it's fascinating for you to put your albums in order. released those songs, because you've got, you know, I think the secret to it is, yeah, you have all your good good people. But you've got a dozen cracking songs that you've written over the years. And that is essentially the ingredient that keeps you going.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 52:38

And yeah, that's the cake. You've got, you've got reg I am and keep the quality up. But I mean, we met the gets quite hard with a good people's following. That was really hard. Believe it or not, that's what we've been trying to do since that day, with varying degrees of success.

Keith Jopling: 53:01

It's a good aim, I think, never to forget where you came from, in a sense. I like that. Yeah.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 53:07

I mean, that's what we did after the fifth album is like remembering. You know why you're in it? Why are you doing it? You know, what, what's the heart? What's the dramatic question for this? Hooray. What is that? What is the central nub of it all? And just try not to steer too far with that. And you'll be alright. That sounds like great advice.

Keith Jopling: 53:35

All right. Well, look, Danny has been great to have you on I look forward to hearing the record. I think I'm gonna see you in September as well when you get back on the road in London. So really looking forward to that. Yeah, best of luck in whatever you do next. And yeah, thanks for the music over 32 years.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 53:53

Thanks very much.

Keith Jopling: 53:54

Cheers, Danny, see you soon.

Danny McNamara, Embrace: 53:56

All right. Thank you.