Hello and welcome to The Art of longevity. I'm your host Keith Joplin. Brett Anderson of suede once said, for all successful artists have navigated for career stages. The struggle, the stratospheric rise to the top crashed to the bottom and the Renaissance or the art of longevity. We talked to artists who spent decades in the music industry and discover what the journey has been like for them, and how have they experienced each of Brett's four stages. Along the way, there are some great stories of the ups and downs and the roundabouts of a career in music, insights fans and aspiring musicians. This is the art of longevity. Welcome to episode one of season two, in which I talk with singer songwriter KT Tunstall que te Tom store how're you doing today? And whereabouts are you?
KT Tunstall:I am doing great. Thank you. And I'm in Topanga Canyon, California, in Los Angeles.
Keith Jopling:Oh, beautiful. Hanging out with the coop looking
KT Tunstall:at the view and there's talks and a very nice horizon, which I think is a wonderful thing to be able to see.
Keith Jopling:Amazing, amazing. Well, I'm in a pretty confined soundproof studio with no view at all. But it's good to know that you're in Topanga Canyon. Well, thanks for joining us really looking forward to having a chat with you. And I guess the first place I wanted to start is what are you up to creatively now because I know that you you've made two albums in this very ambitious three album trilogy, with the spirit body and mind. So following on from kin and wax, I guess it's your onto the album about the mind. So how is progress? What's happening? It's
KT Tunstall:great. I'm getting towards mixing stages, which is kind of amazing. I'm not I'm not gonna lie, I'm, I'm amazed that I've managed to get to this point, despite the lockdown. And, and really the reason I'm surprised is that I was finding it extremely difficult to write lyrics. During lockdown, I just I feel like to write lyrics that I have to get to quite a kind of dream states rather than sitting in reality and reality was keeping its teeth sunk in and I wasn't really finding myself able to escape from it. So towards the end of I guess we're still in the end of this pandemic experience. But in the last few months, I found myself sort of being able to, to free up my creative brain from my own lyrics. But I actually have also been writing a musical the whole time, which is the first time I've done that. And I certainly wouldn't have been able to do that on my usual usual schedule. But in terms of the trilogy, I'm very proud of it I'm very proud of. And very excited by a longer project, it's always a bit disappointing how kind of flash in the pan and album can feel it kind of is over so quickly, and it's so much work to make it. So this has been really great because now I'm finishing this third installment, there is a kind of retrospective feeling towards the other two records where they're still around and they're still there, you know, there's still part of this for adventure. And I'm very excited to get this third one I the first one was written after my dad passed away and I got divorced. And I sold everything I owned, and I basically had a complete kind of rebuild of myself. And the second one about that was the spirit one and the body, the body album, I lost half my hearing through halfway through that tour. So I was kind of asking myself what the hell is going to happen while I'm making a record about the mind. And the whole planet went crazy.
Keith Jopling:Did it strike us a bit ironic that you're, you lost your hearing during the body album? I
KT Tunstall:mean, not not even ironic, frighteningly spooky, like having that experience while Yeah, somatically working on a record about physicality. It's there's, you know, it's apart from kind of losing the use of a limb. It's the scariest thing that can happen.
Keith Jopling:So what's the coping strategy?
KT Tunstall:And honestly, just getting on with life, I haven't got my hearing back. There's no procedure, other than a cochlear implant, which I don't want to get. It gives you a very kind of electronic kind of fake version of sound, which I don't think and specialists have told me or not, it's not very helpful to musicians. And when I was talking to the the doctors at the time, they just said, you know, should I rest I just feel exhausted and I just want to hide in my room and they said absolutely not. You have to live your life the way you want to live so that your brain adjusts to this new The situation instead of adjusting to something where there's no noise, and there's no movement, and there's no hustle and bustle, and then that's going to be really stressful for you. So I was basically forcing myself out into New York in November, with a foot of snow and screaming and cars. And it was extremely challenging. But I'm glad I did it. Because actually now, there's very little, I can't do that I did before.
Keith Jopling:Did you reach out to anyone else? who's been through the same experience? Because you're not the first professional musician?
KT Tunstall:No, I honestly don't know, closely. Any other musicians with complete hearing loss on one side? I know a lot of musicians who've got tinnitus, and a bit of a you know, and some reduce hearing. And the thing that's annoying, actually, is that I had tinnitus in my left ear. And I, I then lost all my hearing and I still have tinnitus.
Keith Jopling:Double whammy really unfair? No, that's, that's not fair at all,
KT Tunstall:I just have to ask people to repeat themselves a lot.
Keith Jopling:Just going back to this trilogy idea. So it seemed almost over ambitious. Because I've spoken to a lot of musicians who have made themed albums and, and concept albums, I think it's a great idea, particularly in this day and age to sort of stand out from the mass, but to commit to three, what was going on in your mind at the time,
KT Tunstall:I think by the time I was making, can I be just before I made Can I move to California and left home. And I really did not think I was going to write another album for 10 years, I thought I was going to take a major break from making records, I just lost the passion. It felt very repetitive, it felt like you know, you just you write you make your records, you tour it, you work with this producer or that mixer. And then you know, the record label tells you who's fashionable, and that's who they want you to work with. And if it sounds commercial enough, they'll put money into it. And if not, they won't. And I was just feeling quite jaded about it, and just really yearning to try some other stuff. So at that time, I actually went and I was very lucky to get accepted onto the Sundance film composers lab. And so I went up to Skywalker Ranch in California. And it was the most extraordinary learning curve of learning about film composition. And I think when I came back to making kin, which was a bit unexpected happened quite quickly, I was able to bring this sort of new experience of film composition, knowledge to it and a different different headspace. And I think what happened at that time, is I really, I was doing a lot of personal work to heal from my marriage breakup, and, you know, changing my life, and my dad passing. And I think I just really completely unhooked myself from the sort of rat race that you can get caught in with with music. So I just, I just was like, why would I do this unless I do exactly what I want. That's why I spent 10 years of my life with no money, trying to get a record deal was so I was my own boss, and I could do what I want. And, you know, I've been through the wringer of making all the decisions myself and ending up really miserable and having to kind of rip it off and start again. So this time, why would I jeopardize, you know, my own creative process? And just just followed my heart? And did I think I think something that was really inspiring to me was the advent of very, very popular multi series, TV shows where, you know, film has sort of been pushed to these edges of product placement. And, you know, I don't know, I guess sort of trying to appeal is it's a bit like politics as well, isn't it? It's just like really trying to appeal to as many people as possible.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, working formula. Yeah.
KT Tunstall:And TV shows seem to pick up the slack. And suddenly, you know, I think sopranos was one of the early ones that just suddenly was a place where character development and storytelling and nuance and subtlety were being celebrated again. And not to say there were brilliant films being made it made I don't want to sort of be not a gentler, sweeping generalization about films, but just the stuff that was popular. I mean, you know, I watched Braveheart again for the the other night, just because I love that movie, Scottish and
Keith Jopling:how many times you've seen it slow.
KT Tunstall:It's so the origin story takes like an hour, whereas now it would be like the credits before this film starts, you know,
Keith Jopling:yeah, but isn't there a parallel there to the songwriting process because that's, that's changed as well. But we will come on to this much later. But I mean that, since we're on the subject, yeah, you're a classic songwriter.
KT Tunstall:I like to try and follow that. That idea. Yeah, that craftsmanship. Have you
Keith Jopling:felt like you've been compelled to, you know, play to the tricks of, you know, Spotify, and, again to the core, I
KT Tunstall:really can't, I don't know how to do it. There's a very kind of popular road these days of writing for other people and collaborating and the stuff that is really popular, I just don't understand. There's the old song where you're just like, Yep, this is a, this is an old school song, and I totally get it. But a lot of the time, I'm hearing, you know, some beats and some hooks. Yeah, and that's kind of it some auto tune. And I don't worry, I just don't get it. So I feel and that was really interesting. Moving on to doing musical theater for me, because I just sort of realized that my skill set is actually right now, for what is super popular is actually much more suited to that than it because that is old school songwriting. But as for my own stuff, I think, you know, I, I music has changed very much. I make a living, playing live, obviously, I'm very lucky. I've got royalties as well, from older stuff, which is still getting played, which is marvelous. But in terms of my new material, there's very little point in me trying to appeal to anyone, because even if I did, it still doesn't really make a great living. So why would I? Why would I do something I don't really want to do when it doesn't actually, you know, there's no difference in the practical result of that. Other than that, I'm not playing what I want. Yeah.
Keith Jopling:And you don't need to fall into that trap, right? I mean, I'm sure
KT Tunstall:to what I've realized is going to valuable in my situation is I'm on my seventh record. And I'm very lucky. There's not you know, there's it's an ever diminishing amount of artists who get to make a seventh eighth ninth album, and still be able to kind of be, I guess, relevant, and, and listened to and celebrated. It's a it's a pretty precipitous path, you know, whether you're kind of still played on the radio, people want to interview you, or, you know, celebrate your music, basically.
Keith Jopling:So you feel like it's a Friday, grateful for that. And
KT Tunstall:I think that actually now, the valuable position I'm in is absolutely just doing whatever I want without being hung up on whatever is happening there. Yeah,
Keith Jopling:I think that's absolutely true. You you because you've come through the mango, you're out there. And the like that very much. Yeah, the only way to stay relevant and vital on the other side is just do what you want. Yes.
KT Tunstall:And it just and that means that people are not always going to like what you do, you know, there's going to be albums that are not like I remember I wrote a record called Invisible Empire crescent moon. And I still think it's one of my best albums. But it didn't really reach that many people. But, you know, it was it was it was different from my kind of fodder, because it was quite downtempo and mellow and a bit melancholic. But it's lovely, because anyone anyone listening to new stuff, or having a look at my back catalogue, you know, it's always there. And it's a really, I'm really proud of it. It's a great piece of work.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I mean, it was sort of a it struck me as a bit of your of a Joni Mitchell, moment for you as well, in a sense, I don't know it could come off the back of, you know, as you're saying, that traumatic year, when your dad died and your marriage ended, and then you went, that's you went straight into making that record, didn't you from there? Yeah,
KT Tunstall:yeah. Well, it was actually either side of all of that happening. So the first half is ways in two halves. The first half was before my life imploded. And the second half was afterwards. But
Keith Jopling:I think you need those moments, don't you to kind of, I don't know, putting the brakes on a little bit, or, as you say, just getting something out of your system. And you are in the position to do that by then and not. Do you feel Did you feel like you're taking risks when you made that record? Are we just not concerned about I was just really surprised.
KT Tunstall:I'd gone out to just do a collaborative project with Howie gal from giant sand in Tucson, Arizona. And when I went back with the record, I thought I was just making an EP or something. And when I got back my turns out my a&r guy at the time, loved how gal and he was like, this is a record, like really? You think this is an album? And he said, Yeah, go back out and finish it. And, you know, a few months went by before I went back and all of this shit happened. And it really turned into a pretty interesting journey.
Keith Jopling:I was gonna ask you about the the influence of yours, your soundtracks and your musical writing on your, let's say your your kind of cool music, but I actually I think that it's pretty obvious when you listen to Kin, because at one point, it just becomes this expansive, you know, quite, quite dramatic thing is it's almost in two halves. But it's it's funny what you were saying about just sticking to your guns and doing what you want, because people come to you at all stages. You know, they still finding it all stages, essentially. I've been listening to listening to you since the beginning, but I really became a fan with human being. And wow, really? Yeah. Because, and also the healer as well. So this, these are both on wax. Yeah, the most recent Yeah, you've done because it sort of felt like you were I think Rock has always been somewhere, just under your skin somewhere. Yeah. And it felt like you were just letting that come to the surface a bit more. Yeah,
KT Tunstall:it was very interesting. Wax is my favorite records that I've made. I've decided that I can say that.
Keith Jopling:It's all killer. No filler. I mean, it's good. I love it.
KT Tunstall:I try and do that every time with albums. But that works. I think the reason I love it so much is exactly what you just said where I've always found it very difficult to capture the lightning when I'm in the studio and make get the live sound. And it would be really, really frustrating for me because people would often say to me, Oh, I like your records, but your incredible wife, you know, it's so exciting live. And I'd always think Damn, I didn't. How am I not managing to get this excitement onto record. And I think Jack White's always someone I look to as being an amazing Alchemist when it comes to recording how he sounds excitement wise, and getting that on record. And it took really working with Nick McCarthy. And I think partly what it was, was working with a producer. He's not really a producer. He is a producer, but he's an artist. And so he wasn't nearly as concerned with perfection and Sonics and, you know, he likes that he's like me is is like, if it sounds good, then it's great. And there was a very unprocessed attitude towards making that record. And we really ended up with a much roar, I think more exciting sounding album. And it was actually much more than that. Before we were before I had conversations with the record company. And we kind of evolved some of it off. But it was a doozy as a three piece garage rock record.
Keith Jopling:Totally works for me. But if you were to go even further, so if you were to really rock out because human beings so the reason it caught my attention actually I've after all the years of you know, listening to you kind of fading in and out was it had a sort of very slight element of maybe fill in at that a bit of thing. I don't know if that ever was in your mind. But is this something that Yeah, I
KT Tunstall:mean, I think all of that older music will always filtrate into my system. But it was it was kind of thinking about Marauder Blondie, where, you know, you've got a kind of Elektra since electronic aspects, but really, the guitars and the voice are leading the way. But I'm just keeping it roll. Really.
Keith Jopling:If you really rocked out which way would you go kind of late 70s, then lazy or more grungy sort of Alice in Chains, or so.
KT Tunstall:I mean, it would just depend on the songs. I think the songs always have to dictate what you're doing. I think if I think sitting down and deciding to make a certain style of record is probably a mistake. You want to just follow the songs and let them tell you what to do. And then hopefully you make something that's not sounding exactly like something else.
Keith Jopling:Well, can we rewind back to the very early days actually, but it's hard to tell where to start with you. Because if we start at it at the telescope and 2005 That's, that's the year already 10 years in then but I guess that's the place to start. Because you had one of those moments where, you know, when you went on to Jools Holland, I think you were, there was a cancellation and you were given a slot late. And you went on? You did Blackhorse in the cherry tree and that was a transformative thing. I'm wondering how much do you actually think about that for a start?
KT Tunstall:I actually just watched it again the other day, just by chance, and it still amazes me that it had such an effect. Because I just been doing I've been doing that in coffee shops and bars for such a you know setting gear up myself and do my own sound. And it seemed, it just seems very simple. And so I'm still surprised that how effective it was and how kind of universally it captured people's imaginations because it seemed like everyone watched that that night, you know? Yeah, whenever I do interviews, I CPI, so you do that thing. And people were phoning other V people were calling their friends and saying, Did you see that girl? Did you see what she did? You know, so I don't think I'll ever totally grasp how hard that kind of in terms of something fresh and people being excited about seeing something new, you know, because I'd been I'd been doing it for probably about, I don't know, six months a year at that point. And it just seemed kind of, I don't know, it didn't seem as groundbreaking to me. You know, taking my guitar and looping it was still
Keith Jopling:such a key part of this business. Right, that kind of line that you said, it's interesting
KT Tunstall:that it was so visual, because yeah, you know, that wouldn't have happened if people couldn't see it.
Keith Jopling:And when you go back to that moment, do you kind of get a do you get a visceral sense of how I mean, it must have been a pretty hard thing to step up and do.
KT Tunstall:Well, it wasn't. That was the thing that was really funny was that. I'm really glad I didn't have time to think about it. Because I didn't have time to panic. I just had to, I was on tour with my friends band playing in his band. And I had to just come back to London, grab some quotes from my apartment and just run to the studio and just do what I'd been doing. I hadn't even actually told my friend because we were on tour with a band called The earlies from Manchester. And there's like, 15 of them. And I hadn't even told them that I did my own thing. They just thought that I was in cabs band. And then when I went back out on the tour, you know, a few days later, I was like, Can we watch after the show? I said, we were in New York and in a venue called fibbers. And they had a little TV and it was on at like, 11 o'clock. And after we finished, I said, Could we watch the TV? Because I'm gonna be on it. And they were all like, what? You're on TV. I was like, Yeah, I know. It's crazy. And so we all huddled around this little TV and watched it.
Keith Jopling:And they will probably thinking at that point. Okay, kind of waving you. Bye. Bye. Key Thea, thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please tell your friends, listen back to the other episodes. And don't forget to subscribe on whatever podcast platform you listen to. Back to the conversation. Well, I remember when you did that. So I saw that just, you know, live on TV, or not live. But you know, at the time it was broadcast. And I remember when you were coming up at that point. And you were literally like, the biggest thing that EMI had at that time. Like I actually spoke to Tony Wadsworth recently, and I said that we were having this conversation. And, you know, is there anything I could kind of relate to you? So let me just read you something. So he so Tony said, she was one of the most complete and authentic artists I've ever worked with. I always tried to ensure that she had the right environment to be creative and not constrained.
KT Tunstall:And it was amazing to me, Tony, he was really, he was a really good friend. I wasn't particularly well suited to the label environment just because of my background of being a busker, and a very kind of Lo Fi rootsy musician, you know. And I certainly hadn't had any experience of being packaged. And Tony was a real friend see that? I really appreciated him very much.
Keith Jopling:Absolutely not surprised at all by the mention of authenticity, because that's absolutely what you were at the time, but the idea of being constrained. And he was focused on that is interesting to me. Because I guess from that moment onwards, have you find like, that's been a bit of a battle for you? Absolutely.
KT Tunstall:I don't I don't think I think as an artist, unless you're with a very, very progressive, probably small, independent label. Your conflict of interests are just going to be apparent all the time. You're making stuff that means stuff to you, and they're selling it. And it's it's never going to be an easy relationship. And I think it would be totally naive to expect it to be and I think over the years, I've just come to understand that. That's not a problem. It's alright to be, you know, and I, I remember be sort of hearing for the first time that I was being described as difficult and hard to work with and And then I find that kind of gutting because it's really kind of doing my best I was working really hard I was I was, you know, a lot of the times I sort of felt the record label didn't want me to change, they just wanted me to stay exactly the same and do the same thing over and over again, which is impossible for me.
Keith Jopling:That's the record labels job though.
KT Tunstall:That's how I ended up thinking about it. It's like, well, that's their job. That's what they've got to do. I'm not looking for my, you know, I'm not looking for my best friends within this organization. It's this is a work relationship. And I totally understand why they need what they need. But I'm definitely going to stand my ground when it comes to stuff that feels important. And actually, being difficult just means that you're original, and that you don't want to follow the crowd. You know, being difficult is basically just not doing what you're told all the time. Which as an artist, I think is your job. Essential.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, it takes a lot of competence and self belief, I guess.
KT Tunstall:Yeah. I mean, it's, it's definitely a card. It's a bit of a roller coaster, because I've definitely had experiences of having the business side of music saying, Well, if you do that, if you use that artwork, or if you go with that single or if you if you want to do that for your record, then if it doesn't do well, that's your fault. And we're telling you that it won't work. So that's hard. Yeah. And then And then sometimes, you know, there's been times where I've capitulated and gone, okay, let's go with your idea. And it still hasn't worked. You know, and then you haven't done what you wanted. And that's, that's tough. That's a hard pill to swallow when that happens. So I think as I get older, the more the more and more I just think, well, no one knows exactly what's going to work. So you might as well do something that you're really proud of
Keith Jopling:another time with it. The telescope, you were the classic kind of overnight success that had been at it for 10 years plus, because I went to the only time I've seen you live was I the ICA
KT Tunstall:very, very. The other day said they'd been at that show.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, I went on a on an EMI ticket because you were the you were the like literally the biggest thing that they were trying to get through. I
KT Tunstall:don't know if you remember, but I skewered my pinky with a guitar string that night. I broke a string went straight through my finger and it Oh,
Keith Jopling:yeah, yeah, no, no, I do remember that. I do. Remember that
KT Tunstall:was maybe the most rock and roll thing that's ever happened to me on stage. But I mean, it
Keith Jopling:was just the whole evening was just sort of pumped up enthusiasm. It felt like you were just about containing your, your enthusiasm, your excitement for everything. So I guess it was enjoyable. But pro overnight success after, you know, oh, it was
KT Tunstall:fun. It was phenomenal. I loved it. It was you know, it was the difference between it being really hard. And it being really easy. Suddenly, the phone's ringing off the hook. And I'm playing every dream venue and people all the tickets are selling out. And I've got a tour bus and a band. And I mean, it was just a total dream. That's
Keith Jopling:the definition of fame, isn't it? Everybody? To come to you? You're the word.
KT Tunstall:Yeah, absolutely. Do you think it's gonna last forever, and you make stupid decisions, and you spend too much money and you know, and then you realize it doesn't last forever. And you learn. And you get more grateful and aware of these things that are actually really hard won.
Keith Jopling:When you followed up with drastic, fantastic, which I also love. So if I'm ranking your albums, wax is probably number one and drastic fans. Yes. Number two, was there a lot of pressure on you with the follow up? You are massively
KT Tunstall:awful. There was so much pressure. I wanted to delay because I was so exhausted because the eyes of the telescope had cracked America a year after it cracked the UK. So after working my tissue off in the UK, suddenly it was starting again in America, which is you know, like 50 times the size. Yeah, you know, it was just it was just insane amounts of work and travel. And so by the time I was deep into touring in America, the UK needed a new record. Because I was getting towards, you know, three years before another record was out. And I was just completely ruined. And I was asking for more time and I remember my manager saying you can't have more time because it's going to reduce Sony's share prices, if your record doesn't come out this quarter or whatever. And I was like, What the fuck is that got to do with me? It's
Keith Jopling:crazy. Just it was really crazy as if you needed that to encourage you to, you know,
KT Tunstall:yeah, making that second record was really not a pleasant experience.
Keith Jopling:It's a good record.
KT Tunstall:Thank you, I think out of all of them. I'd love to make that one again. Because I love the songs but we did not hit a good chemistry in terms of putting it together as an album. And I think if that's the one I would, I would I would rerecord and undo, not all of the tracks just, I think when you listen to wax, that's what I wanted drastic, fantastic to sound like, right. And it was just sort of it was just a bit, it was just too polished. Yeah, I think you know, it also, there's just this massive temptation because I'd become this very famous successful star to try and push that further and turn me into something, you know, even more commercial, which I didn't really want. Yeah, I think I was quite confused. I started wearing like, really glittery clothes and looking back at it, I just think you should have just, I don't know, you've got to experiment. You've got to go with your heart. You make decisions at the time for a reason. And I was I was finding my way. Was
Keith Jopling:there something holding you back from the stadiums? Do you think? Just maybe, no,
KT Tunstall:no. So my booking agent said that he wanted to do an arena tour. And I actually unbelievably said, No, that I didn't want to do that it felt to corporate. And it didn't feel like the space that I should be playing in and looking back, I was just too scared. No, it's very, very normal for a new artist to blow up and play arenas. It wasn't that it was not a normal occurrence. Like people were not giving their music to adverts and commercials and brands. That was like a massive nono, having your music used commercially was it's the attitude. I'm glad the attitude has changed, because it's really an artists favor. But you know, it wasn't like as soon as I got successful, they're like, pairing me up with fashion brands and products. Like that didn't happen. Yeah. Face of anything.
Keith Jopling:Yeah. Yeah. tentacle artists that they probably would have struggled to do that with. But I can see that they would try and ramp you up to the arena. See, yeah,
KT Tunstall:I think that there was definitely this sort of trying to curate a pop star. And I've never really been billed for that. I
Keith Jopling:could see Yeah, that was scary. But I read somewhere that you you regret that you didn't go for that kind of arena. Yeah, I
KT Tunstall:really regret it. I would, I would absolutely. If I had a chance. Again, I would jump on that. Because it would have been an amazing experience. And, you know, here I am 15 years later. And if you cultivate and conquer that size venue, and you know that you can give people a fantastic show and that size of venue and there's a trust there. I mean, from a business point of view, you're looking at a much more successful business.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, you've got the repertoire to do that now, though.
KT Tunstall:Perhaps I mean, I don't feel I still feel that outside of the two or three big songs being you know, suddenly, but of course, on either side of the world. It does drop off after that, in terms of what people know, of my back catalogue. And my fans are amazing. And you know, when I play the Roundhouse, they're all singing every word and absolutely loving it. But in terms of going into much bigger spaces into, you know, where you're actually playing for people who aren't crazy fans of your music, and really only listen to the radio, they're probably not quite as as familiar with some of the other stuff. What's
Keith Jopling:your relationship with it, the telescope now and the songs from it. And I'm thinking because of what you've just said. So when you hear your KT Tunstall on the radio, it tends to be, you know, those big three. Yeah.
KT Tunstall:I couldn't be more grateful, right. It's who gets that? Like, it's so rare, especially from my generation. It's much more common with bands from the 60s and 70s. For that stuff to keep getting played. But and the 80s. But from 2005, to keep getting yourself played is, is pretty amazing. Longevity is, is definitely in pretty short supply these days when it comes to what is on the radio. And I'm just really proud of how that first record science because it's just still sounds really fresh. And original, and I don't really Same here. Anything that seems that like it.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, it was a classic. I think you started your career with a classic
KT Tunstall:album, and always dangerously. Yeah, it's
Keith Jopling:sort of hard. I'm curious. I mean, you've obviously you're doing fine. So you made it through you survived it. Yeah. I'm curious as to how you have navigated that. Absolutely. Because I think a lot of artists in that position. I can't think of one off the top of my head, but there's probably hundreds who've done that.
KT Tunstall:journey has been interesting in that I just very vehemently have refused to repeat myself. Because I find that I just find it boring. So as much as everybody wanted an eye to sort of telescope part 234 Or five, six, it was never going to happen. And what I kind of can see with hindsight and looking at other artists, if you have a hit record, and then you just do the same thing over and over again, you're much more likely to stay successful. So there's, there's a lot of Jeopardy in stepping to the left or the right from your lane. And that's definitely what I've done pretty much every record. And sometimes, you know, the fans of it go up, sometimes the fans of it go down. But, you know, it's just I guess, accepting that that was just an incredible experience, it's very unlikely that that's going to happen to me again, to have a an album that sells, you know, nearly 6 million copies. So I'm just, I'm just incredibly grateful that I got to have that experience.
Keith Jopling:Keeping in touch with the KT Tunstall fan. How do you do that? Well, I'm
KT Tunstall:a big back fan. And Beck's been a big inspiration for me, in terms of how to approach making music, where I've I probably know his catalogue better than anybody else's in terms of my personal kind of record collection, I I'll often just get into one record and not, you know, not listen to any others. But with back I have listened to pretty much all this stuff. And I think it's a trust that I'm finding like minded people that have the same taste as me. And that maybe enjoy the same playlist as I would you know, like in terms of 60s rock and 70s, rock and folk music and traditional music and world music. And so I think it's people who probably have those similar tastes, and can hear those references in my music no matter what I'm making, and no matter what style of it that they're appreciating my choices. Even if I'm doing stuff that's very different. And I Katie comes to Van as is someone who's really open to hearing new things and is excited to be suggested new things, and there's not going to judge something on first listen, like most people I speak to after the shows will say you know my favorite song is this album track that I listened to 20 times before I got it. music fans.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, yeah, I think the irony of kind of chasing that the new sounds and you know, the new playlists and all of that is that there's I've feel that your your music, which is heavily synced as well. So you know, you find your music on it finds its way on to TV shows and things where you can catch the younger audience that it easily crosses over to the younger audience and in fact, you're probably an inspiration for a lot of let's say, you know, female troubadours now Yeah, I
KT Tunstall:mean, I think the other thing is I'm, I've just turned 46 This year, and there's, there's really very few female artists my age, you know, still out gigging and still putting out new records, because they exist, for sure, of course, and I know a lot of them and I love them. But in terms of kind of being above the public treeline, you know, as it were, most of the, the kind of other solo female artists who came out around the same time as me were a good 10 years younger than me. So I do feel I'm flying five for young women wanting to end girls wanting to make music just going oh, yeah, you can still do it when you're older. It
Keith Jopling:is possible. Yeah. Well, you the thing is, you can that's the thing, I think you've probably found having gone through that arc and gone through the manga we discussed and got to the position you're in now at 46 Actually, you're incredibly young, because you look at this is the age of the Thank you.
KT Tunstall:Young I feel I feel, I feel actually a vitality now that I that feels even younger than when I think the freedom of just being creative and not sort of being hung up on being in some sort of bizarre composition. Yeah. Is incredibly liberating, and I feel I'm having the more the most fun I've had maybe,
Keith Jopling:but at what point did it stop being a competition?
KT Tunstall:I mean, from as soon as you're successful, you're just constantly being pushed towards competitiveness with other artists. And your it's all about charts and awards and, you know, numbers it's, it's, you're just put upon With all of these kind of comparative statistics all the time, which is really unhelpful. It's just not creative in any way. It's
Keith Jopling:exactly what like, you know, the labels are beavering away on and thinking that they can give you the all this data that is helpful.
KT Tunstall:Yeah, no, it's horrible. I remember when I was up for the Mercury award, and an oni who's Antony and the Johnsons at the time, one, and he went up and said, this is like a competition between spoons and oranges. was a great way.
Keith Jopling:Absolutely fantastic. Well, look, now you're kind of you found a home in Topanga. And by the way, I, I've read in a couple of your previous interviews, you you kind of said that you didn't feel like you had a home. So it's kind of interesting that you've settled in in Topanga. I mean, what are you most excited about? Next, apart from you know, what you can tell us about the next album,
KT Tunstall:writing this musical has been a hugely challenging and extremely rewarding it's a completely new skill. It's a huge amount of work. It took just new, very new levels of of dedication and focus for me to, to knuckle down and get the work done. I'm doing I'm doing the music and lyrics. It's an adaptation of a film called saving grace that had served Brenda Blethyn, right. Okay, and it's a comedy. So I'm writing comedy for the first time. Learning how to actually write songs in real time conversation is just one of the most bizarre things I've ever had to do, where someone's having an argument and singing at the same time. And I'm just extremely proud of it. I think it's really, really good work. And I mean, you know, fingers crossed, it goes, but it's just that think that on the unknown, moving forward is, is a very, very exciting place for me where I can just expand into some other creative avenues of you know, not just, especially after, after having my deafness occur, it was just like, I'm, I'm really jeopardizing my health by just touring constantly. And as much as I adore playing live, there's much more to music than that. But I can't do any of it if I can't hear. So. It's been a bit of a leveler losing my hearing for sure. What's
Keith Jopling:the plan for saving grace? Is it doesn't have a release day or anything like that?
KT Tunstall:No, it's that we're just about to all meet each other for the first time, which is very exciting, because it's all been done in lockdown. So we'll see. But all the songs are written. It's all kind of just lots and lots of tweaking, and perfecting at this stage. So fingers crossed.
Keith Jopling:Amazing. And the new album number three in the trilogy.
KT Tunstall:I mean, next year, for sure. Not quite sure when exactly. But I'm very excited about it. Again, it's a completely different sounding record. You know, I was very fascinated by repetition and patterns because of the way the brain works. And it was done remotely between Los Angeles and London, which is also kind of a really cool neural network. Yeah, fair. Yeah.
Keith Jopling:And also, sort of a good time to be bringing something out. Yeah, that's about the mind. It was very going on in the mind in a very
KT Tunstall:collaborative record with Martin Teressa, who I've probably written about 30 songs with over the years, but he's never produced a record. So because I trust them, and he's such a good friend I was, I was able to sort of let go a bit more. So he's, he's been an amazing collaborator to work with on it.
Keith Jopling:Fantastic. So my last question what what really sustains you, as a creator, and as a human being space
KT Tunstall:to make stuff, I kind of realized that I used to sort of not love the studio, I always felt like the studio was just this kind of vehicle to sell stuff at the live show, you know, make and make an album and that get that sort of gets you out on road and, but actually, the making stuff has become the thing that I find the most joy in and sharing it for sure, is I absolutely love sharing, I wouldn't really want to make it if I didn't share it. But there is just a compulsion within me as a person to create things. And when your brain starts to work, and you're thinking about, you know, it's not just music, there's other things, there's other or other types of music or, you know, other other creative ideas. Like I was just talking to a really interesting guy in music the other day and he said, Have you ever thought of making an instrumental record? I was like, Do you know what I hasn't that I would love to do that. And he's like, you're such a great guitar player, he should make instrumental albums like God be great. And I, you know, have a studio at home. So I'm just in a great position to be explorative and bold and just go with where the creative winds blow me. You know?
Keith Jopling:Is anyone offered you the opportunity to make KT Tunstall the movie? They haven't.
KT Tunstall:I'm not sure we don't have an ending. Yeah. I think there's some twists in the tale that we should wait for first.
Keith Jopling:Yeah, it's just one of these. The, I think the ways in which artists that have been around for a while have kept going and actually, you know, a horror is a good example that, you know, they just made a movie. It's just interesting. You know, it's interesting to see the journey get a glimpse, people
KT Tunstall:often don't know your backstory. Yeah. And actually, you know, people don't usually know what you've done to get to the point where your records coming out, and it's usually a lot.
Keith Jopling:Well, hopefully, they've got a flavor of it from this conversation.
KT Tunstall:Yeah. Thank you. I always appreciate when you really looked into it or it's, it's it's really nice to, to know that it was interesting enough for you to do that.
Keith Jopling:Oh, yeah. Looked and listened, looks endless and thoroughly enjoyed it. So whatever you do next, and you know, the musical, the next album, what you're getting back out on tour, of course, and yeah, good luck with all of that. It sounds like you know what, whatever happens, you've got another seven albums maybe or a lot more.
KT Tunstall:They might, they might not look the same. But there's definitely things are gonna happen, I think. And
Keith Jopling:at some point, that rock that rocker is going to come out. I just know it.
KT Tunstall:Oh, absolutely. And I think you know, also I've got the 20th anniversary of the first record coming up quite soon. Oh, wow. Wow. So that's going to be that's going to be a lot of fun to celebrate that. Cool.
Keith Jopling:Cool, really looking forward to it. Katie, thanks so much for joining me.
KT Tunstall:Thanks, Kate. Nice to talk to you. And you. Bye bye bye.