Keith Jopling: 0:01

Hello, and welcome to The Art of longevity. I'm your host, Keith Jopling. Brown, the son of suede once said that all successful artists have navigated for career stages. The struggle, the stratospheric rise to the top, crashed to the bottom of a renaissance. For the longevity, we talked to artists who spent decades in the music industry and discover what the journey has been like for them, and how have they experienced each of Brett's four stages. Along the way, there were some great stories of the ups and downs, and the roundabouts of a career in music, insights, fans, and aspiring musicians. This is the art of longevity. Welcome back to season three, episode two in which I talked to grant Nicholas of the indie rock legends feeder. So it's good to see you grant, how are you aware about Sorry, I'm

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 1:01

good. I'm actually at home in London in my kitchen at the moment, I normally in my little studio, the tree house where to where I do a lot of the feeder recording and my solo stuff, but I thought I'd move into the kitchen, I'll give you a bit of a white vibe. So nice.

Keith Jopling: 1:16

Grant bring us up to speed on where you are with feeder. So torpedo is due in March 2022. I think it's your 11th studio album, which is very, very exciting for us fans. So just tell us where you are in the scheme of things right now.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 1:31

Yes, now he can march he comes out. I mean, it was gonna come out sooner, but we focused on what we should be talking about, we didn't want to just sort of like drop a record when we couldn't do anything around it. So we decided to, to wait a little bit of hopefully, where we can, you know, get the album out and do the tour in April. But basically what happened was, I'm always writing songs, I'm still like, really creative. Even though we've been around for over 30 years as a band, I'm very fortunate that I have this kind of energy when it comes to songwriting. And I think as I've gotten older, and I've experienced more, it's give me a bit a bit a bit more to write about. And I've got a bit more comfortable, you know, kind of, you know, you know, with lyrics and just kind of accepting my strengths or whatever it is. So basically what happened was, I started recording a lot of stuff, we did some recording that pre or the lockdown thing got about eight or nine songs together, which was gonna be the next sort of songs, the next video album, it was a bit of a natural follow on from the previous album to live. I don't eat foods, of course. So it has some classic feeder stuff in there like like few rocky songs, some some quiet, I hate using the word your commercial, because everything I think is commercial never seems to get on the road. I just say everything. So commercial suicide, and then it normally does alright for us. But it's like, yeah, so basically, it was a very natural follow on and then, you know, we came to like a, you know, it's like a brick wall. And you know, everything stopped. And so those songs were kind of left not mixed, they were virtually all done, they just need to be mixed. And it was there was a there was there was a couple of bases that's actually needed to finish, but otherwise basically done. And then when it's a lot done, and for the first time, I think in that 25 years, we were really being a feeder, I just sort of didn't know what to do. And instead of picking up my guitar every few days, whatever it was, I just started clearing out my garden shed and doing lots of gardening like everybody else was doing all these things that you didn't get time to do. My head just wasn't really in that space, because I didn't know what was happening with live show. So just not a very inspiring time around I think, but then after about two months, I just picked up my guitar and the songs just pulled out of me. And really, this record torpedo is, is really that the previous songs are going to be on the next album. Does that make sense?

Keith Jopling: 3:38

It's interesting, because I was wondering where you were going to take it with torpedo listening to the first few singles because for me to Lulu and almost come full circle to in a way that classic feeder sound, I mean, you can just probably describe that better than I could but it felt like all of the elements of the feeder sound were in Talulah and the songs were great as well. So it was a kind of case of well if that if that's a new baseline where would you go with a new record and the you know, with the pandemic influence that so I suppose that answers my question in a way but I mean, is this a pandemic influenced record in any way?

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 4:16

I think I thought I'd be lying if I said it you know there isn't songs at the touch on that where my headspace Where's where you know where a lot of head headspace was and it was a very kind of mentally a very difficult time for people and a lot of people have suffered from all sorts like depression there's been lots of relationships sort of things going a bit pear shaped whatever it has been together too much you know, it's been a tough time all around and you know, only people that you know, that lost sort of friends or loved ones and family members. So obviously, you know, from the you know, a COVID it's just yeah, it I mean, I can sit down and say right I'm gonna write an album about what's happening right now, but I just but but I know that without even realizing I was doing it. I kind of was on certain tracks, but I think it's still quite a universal album. I think the lyrics can be interpreted in lots of ways you know, if this hadn't happened, and something that happened in my life? You know, I don't like to be to sort of obvious. You know, when I talk about songs, I think I think it's really what people get from them after they hear them. I have a definite sort of idea in my head about kind of what I'm trying to say. But well, at least most of the time. But I think I think that's what I love about, you know, music and songwriting. You know, it's like watching your film, you see the images, but if you read the book, you know, first, you have your own images. And that's what I like about music. I think it's now one that touches on lots of things. I think it's I think it's an album that touches on life situations, things that everybody deal with, you know, day to day. And I think that's maybe why some people like connect with feeder, you know, I think, obviously, hopefully, the music and the melodies and what we are as a band, but I think as I get older, you use this font a bit more to kind of write about really use this experience a bit more, and I feel a bit more comfortable what I'm writing. Now, it doesn't matter how simple a song is, you know, you've had the most simple lines, but they're often the hardest ones to write when they're simple. And they're good, and they connect with people. That's absolute gold. And people can criticize lyrics. And I've written this I think I was thinking of, but hopefully I'm getting better. And hopefully you get better as a songwriter in some way. But, you know, I'm still learning my apprenticeship. You know, there is no, I'm still trying to write that, you know, that, that next best song or that one that I know people will love, but at the end of the day, just do what, what what comes at that time. And this album came at that time. So yeah, and I and it was it took on a bit more of a rock kind of feel. So that's why I decided not to dilute it and make it probably a bit more like the previous hour. Because you know, you mentioned it's sort of almost gone full circle. I think what Selena had, that I realized after finishing the record, and when we realized was it had little bits of all those sort of all those kind of feed it records on one, didn't it? Yeah, it took me You know, I didn't, I didn't realize that at the time. But now I could do this one is still a classic feed record, it probably touches on slightly earlier feeder in some way with the big riffs, that big guitar sound that I'm sort of known for. But I still think it's, you know, there was a few rocky songs on there. I don't if you listened to the album all the way through, but a Kyoto would fit not really well on this record, for example. Yeah, it's still a very important part of the band, you know, that the rock side of what we do, I think we've had some commercial success along the way. That fee just started out, as you know, you know, we are a rock band or an indie rock band that's always going to be that.

Keith Jopling: 7:21

Yeah, I mean, along with the songwriting itself, that's the dial that you have, you've got the loud and quiet dynamic. And you can go from the classic feeder sound, which is the sort of pop rock indie punky thing, but you can rock it up and grunge it up a little bit more. And actually, you know, if anything, the artwork is very interesting. That is kind of giving me a bit of a clue here because I don't really love it. It's it's very striking. And it feels like I sort of harken back to, I don't know, 70s, Black Sabbath or maybe 80s journey or something like how did it come about?

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 8:01

Yeah, that is totally what I want. I was looking for something that had those plastic album sleeves, I know you nowadays, it's all about it's put these on shuffle girls care about the physical side, but for me in a band like feeder, it's so important. And the artwork, even the sequencing, what's on site a site B the vinyl, I spent weeks and weeks analyzing that and making sure that journey that I was trying to say, you know, we were the songs we were trying to do as a band comes across I know some people might not care about it, but I you know, if we're the live feed or not, if you ever listen to the album's I think even more so on the last three or four, it kind of put them together in a way that they are like connecting, there's a flow there, and I want it to be the right journey. You know, like I always want to, it's really watching an action film, you know, you need a break sometimes. And I That's why you might have two or three big heavy Big Rig feeder songs. And then, you know, sort of bring it down a bit because I feel as though kind of musically, I need that. And even if you see us live, we kind of do that as well. I mean, you mentioned like the sort of punchy bands who said there's a bit more indie pop sort of thing. And that's always been there. But actually our very early stuff like polythene and swim is very, very much about big anthemic and big riffs and stuff. And that's that was really our trademarks. And I mean, I just naturally write commercial songs, you know, well, not commercials, but you know, songs that have melodies, and I suppose a reasonably commercial because I like, I like songs, you know, it doesn't matter. It's not about being the heaviest band. Well, it's about having it's about being heavy, but having a really good melodies and like great choruses. And that's what we've always tried to do and, and you know, that the band's inspired me, like Led Zeppelin stuff like that, you know, and the black stuff or whatever. But I mean, Taylor, there's certainly, for example, they had like cashmere and rock'n'roll and Black Dog, but then they had all these folk songs, and they had, you know, like the rain song stuff. And that's what I loved about that. And we always wanted to be that kind of band. And I think we've we've managed to achieve that because it's not easy thing to do for a rock band. Some people just want that one thing. And we've managed to do that. So when we do like a really mellow song, or a more anthemic one or more upbeat kind of indie punky rock song. People aren't really shocked by it. It feels like oh, you That's fader. And I'm so grateful for that. But we've always done that from day one, actually. And I think that's, I think that was a good move on our behalf, but also a very natural thing, because that's kind of what we are. And that's how I write. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 10:11

I mean, you've got the capital definitely to move around a little bit with the sound.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 10:16

If this gives you a bigger canvas, he says, gives you a bigger musical cameras here to do stuff. And you know, and that's kind of nice. And I think people that know the band, and know our history and know all our albums and our besides stuff, they kind of know that maybe some of the later fans who came on board with me, maybe after hearing some songs on the radio, but it was just a day or comfort and sound kind of period or you know, obviously about religious stuff like that. A lot of them don't know that early work, or they're just discovering it, but I really feel as though this album, hopefully will introduce them a bit to that sort of side of feeder a bit more as well.

Keith Jopling: 10:47

Okay. This is the third 11th studio album, we've been releasing albums for three decades. What are your expectations these days? Because the times have changed, I mean, a hell of a lot. You don't really sell anything anymore. So what what are your expectations leading up to a release of a new album,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 11:03

I don't really have. I mean, this was kind of recently going to be because you had all these songs. Because I was writing I thought, Oh, this is safe. This is the three fanbase things about ourselves, just doing a label service deal, which is probably the best thing for a band like us anyway. And this make a fan base either maybe three mini albums and so that was what we want to do originally go back to the how we started off, you know, when this was a sixth album, kind of a bit of a sampler really to what was to come you know, with the policy and record and then I think we played it two attempts, anyone who helped me put the record out and they just flipped over it and just said, okay, you know, this would be an album this these songs are really good. And so we went from doing like three mini albums to that still double album. And we put the pre the sort of pre lockdown songs on the one and then the other one can be a little bit rakia says, you know, be really interesting sort of double arm. So I've always wanted to do I know it's a little bit pretentious for some people find but I'm old school, I love those sort of double arms and some of that Prague's for when I was growing up, and, and then we just felt like, as you just said, albums come and go so quickly. It's it's it's really about live as well. And I, we just felt like it was too many songs just to put out on one thing that if we didn't connect with people, we just felt it would just be too much, and maybe kind of wasting a lot of material. So we decided this is the plan is going to be a kind of double album, still, but it's in two halves, there's going to be two standalone albums. The first one is like torpedo, and then hopefully there'll be another album 12 months later. And that will be either the pre lockdown songs plus another bunch of songs that I've written actually quite recently as well. Right. So it just makes it interesting. And but they are very much connected. And you mentioned the artwork, it's the same artists. So the artwork is actually very similar. So they're kind of like a collectible little duet, although they're, you know, they're still standalone albums. But I think for somebody that loves the band, just be really nice to have the pair of those.

Keith Jopling: 12:58

So tell us about the artists, how did you come across them, and

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 13:02

it was completely luck. I mean, I think you've had some good sleeves. We've always worked with really great artists, like creative people, we've been very lucky, we spend a lot of time working with companies that can source the right people or just through friends. I mean, luckily that was done by a good friend of mine called rug man artists answering the queue and who did the artwork for that after we got together and I said I want to I had an idea for something. I've got loads of his artwork in my house. And we're, I'm actually the godfather to these thoughts. But he's a fantastic artist, he was a sort of nice to work. I just love working with artists, you know, it's just that creative thing. You know, we're not that dissimilar, you know, it's still, I don't know, I just find a real connection. And to me, it just gives the album a lot more depth and a lot more meaning, you know, so we've worked with loads of artists, but to answer your question. So what was the online guide very closely called Mikey, who's really good, we did loads of stuff together. And he was trying to find some good artists and he just came across this Russian collage artists, a nice get contacted for him. And apparently he can love the band. He loves feed, he loves smashing pumpkins and stuff like that. So I can see why he likes us. And he was totally over the moon about doing it. I mean, some artists are a bit funny about doing kind of album covers, but he was totally up for and so we went through putting the images, he tweaked a few things for us. And that's how it happened. And he's still in touch and he's still helping out and doing a few things as well. We'd be doing some animation videos, as you probably saw, and he didn't give us a few little extra things he is he's been so helpful but to find someone like that who's in Russia that happens to be a fan was like pretty bizarre. He's just you know, it was just meant to be Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 14:34

it's very cool. That's the thing is distinctive.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 14:37

It is I mean it is it is totally what you put it on so pleasing that you picked up on that kind of classic 80s sort of you know 70s Rock sleeve because I was you know looking through sleeves that I love what it was like you mentioned like journey and you know Roxy Music and all those kind of you know those those sleeves and Pink Floyd sleeves. I love that kind of style. And I think this has a bit of that.

Keith Jopling: 14:58

Yeah, I think it's making a Bit of a comeback because of vinyl, which is good. Exactly. Because I think, you know, you're right. We were kind of going into the age of music as files for a while they were sort of coming through that now, I think, which is, it's a great relief.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 15:12

It is it is a really strong Steve, I think we've had so I think I lost, you know, he's, he's been really strong. And then I think it's just, you know, it's sort of nice to have a really great image to launch the record and also be working with somebody that's found a band is may also love his artwork, you know?

Keith Jopling: 15:28

Yeah, but I'm looking forward to seeing the visual side of that live if you're gonna take that live. I mean, you meant you mentioned live, obviously.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 15:34

Yeah, yeah, we definitely do. I mean, you had we've already used it. We did a couple of festivals, you know, we were lucky to get a few before you know, after lockdown thing and, and there was there was a few where we had like, massive screens, and we had it behind us. It actually looks really good. Looks very powerful.

Keith Jopling: 15:49

I was a bit gutted. Because I was looking forward to seeing you on the bill with James and Maximo park for this heritage. Good was postponed twice. And I was like, Oh, is it gonna be the same lineup and then it was postponed again to June next year, and you're off the bill. I guess you're somewhere else that time or, you

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 16:07

know, now we're off to do it. I don't get it. I'm gonna get into politics. Yeah, I was a bit annoyed because, you know, it's only literally about what I can walk there in about half an hour, like 40 minutes here. So it's kind of it seems like a local gig for me. So it would have been great to do it. And obviously, I've met a couple of guys with Jane, I think the keyboard player actually lives quite near because his son is friendly with my daughter. It's a small world at the same school thing. But anyway, and I know solidly it's sold the the you know, the Orion is placed with everything people. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, but yeah, for some reason, because we're doing Brixton Academy. There's there's all these you know, if you're doing like a London show, and it's close to another one, the closest you know, they don't like it. So we were told that it was just too close to our to our Brixton show, which is end of April, early May. I personally don't get that because I think it would have been a different audience. And I think it would have been great. And I think we made it an interesting lineup as well. I know got charlatans now. And they do a great job, I'm sure but ya know, I'm a little bit gutted, actually, because I was hoping that they still let us do it.

Keith Jopling: 17:10

Well, you and me both you and me both because it was a great bill. And actually, I've had some I've had Paul Smith from Maximo Park and Tim booth from James on on the show as well. I'm gonna have to get to Tim to come on next. We'll do that. Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 17:22

I mean, I think it was down to James it was, you know, I think we were a good you know, I think we made it an interesting lineup, but it was, yeah, just purely down to the promoters. And they have clauses saying, you know, they don't get, you know, they're already happy if you do something, you know, I mean, it's all bands. It's not just us. It's just one of those things. I didn't try and push it saying, Come on, it's not going to affect bricks, there'll be fine. When I

Keith Jopling: 17:43

saw you last in Brixton, it was quite a while ago. And I was sitting on the, in the upper circle there with a friend, I was actually quite worried I thought the place was going to collapse. I mean, your fans or your fans or not.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 17:56

Yeah, I mean, you know, we're so lucky. And I don't think notice we've got such a mixture of age group last shows, it's a bit like going to you know, I was watching some footage of Foo Fighters getting recently and it's actually really similar because they have like families, you have the foo fighter family, that the kids are growing up with Foo Fighters, whatever. And we were a similar kind of thing. And we started well, I think they should just before the food, but we just one of those bands. That is I think it's a combination of we still got like, you know, like a little bit of a college following you know, there's there's still a lot of kids into rock. And he's just one of those bands that seem to sort of like, cross over a bit. You know, obviously we got our diehard fans, you've been there from day one are absolutely amazing that literally have kept us going but so you know, you've got them there. You've got some older rock fans that obviously see something in our music, you know, they probably people that you know, 30 years older than me that come to the shows because they obviously grew up with a lot of, you know, classic 70s Rock an 80s music and they see something in what we do that they like, and then you've got the sort of kids that come to the shows. It's just bizarre. We've got, honestly, we have so many like 14 year olds, I mean, I think I think 90s bands and bands like ourselves, maybe there isn't any left like us in the UK. I think it's quite a good time for 90s bands. And I think a lot of kids are really sort of starting to sort of, you know, discover bands like us again, so there's something that seems to connect you know, I wouldn't complain if you had the same fans coming to the gazes obviously come to the gigs but to have such a broad you know, and wide age group of people at the shows is actually really encouraging. When

Keith Jopling: 19:24

you sit out back in the day did you ever imagine that you'd be basically playing a family shows cross generational

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 19:33

family so yeah, I'd put it like that but it's kind of it's a great place to be if you can do that. That's you know, that is the ultimate kind of compliment if you've got a family and the kids like it as well then you do something right.

Keith Jopling: 19:47

Well and so RAM in that is what longevity is all about. I'm gonna I'm gonna come on to that later. We'll come back to that. I want to wind back a little bit because I first discovered your muse I'm gonna new Did you know I knew feeder as a band, and I'd heard but Rogers and the singles and stuff, but I really first connected with you through comfort and sound, right? Because I work in the industry, I went to a demo. And it was one of the first demos I'd heard of SA CD. Do remember that the Super Audio CD, we will start back in the days of CDs. And yeah, I went through a demo that played comfort and sell to the cranked up just the way I'm feeling. And I just thought that chord progression just just grabbed me. And so I checked the album out I think it was maybe a year after it had come out or something like that. Yeah, actually, no would have been right about the time it came out. Because my it was around the time of my when my dad died. And I had not realized that the album was so drenched in in grief. And I have to say, I want to ask you a couple of questions about it. But for me, it was it's kind of a bizarre way to discover a band, but it's it's just meant so much to me for that reason. So I just wanted to almost just thank you for that, I guess. Oh,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 21:03

cheers. Well, not I mean, I mean, I needed to make that record, I you know, we sort of came to a brick wall. And it was sort of John's gone. I started the band off with John, you know, we met back in South Wales, and we're in a few bands and together growing up, we always got on really well. John was a fantastic drummer, and he was a really good personality as well. So he was a great guy to have in a band. And then, you know, obviously Matt Mets are both pair. Everyone knows his hacker in Camden some years later. And that was really the start of sort of feeder as people know it. And then and then you know, we worked really hard. We kept like chipping away each arms in a little bit better. And then we dropped the Techo part. That was a really big success for us. And then obviously, John died. And it's just sort of left us in this really weird place. We thought what what do we do, it's just kind of will come to a horrible end. Because I didn't know if I wanted to carry on without John. I didn't I mean, I knew I could still write songs and the music could continue. But then if I wanted to and tack it was a little bit shell shocked. We just didn't know what to do. So we took some time out. I kind of went off the rails a little bit, I think both of us did probably spending too much time on my local pub, drowning my sorrows to thinking about it all. And then I just started to write songs. I locked myself away literally just at the Rovia from where I am now convinced we bought there in two minutes, a place called the called the crypt, where we've done a lot of favors to lock myself in there with an engineer called Matt Stein, who worked on a lot of 3d stuff that time. I think I gave him a nervous breakdown because I literally the songs literally poured out of me. And before I knew it, I you know, written and demoed to a pretty high level configured sound. The only song I didn't have then was just one feeling funny enough. That was one of the last songs I wrote for the album. And I remember getting tech a came to meet us I hadn't seen for ages, I said, just just want to play something I was I was actually really nervous about playing it. 21 He came to this little studio, I played in the tracks. We went to the pub got very drunk. And I could tell he was digging it. I didn't know what to make of it all. And that was the night we decided to carry on actually as a band. And comfort insane was a massive record for us people talking about but Rogers all time but to me comfort saying that was to me if people say what's the holy grail feeder out? For me, I'd say kind of insane because it pushed me as a songwriter. I didn't even realize at the time, but I was sort of going into a different territory. And you were saying about it being an album that you connected with after losing your dad, I think I think a lot of people correct some of that record. But I think the song was just seemed to have something about them. There's a sadness, but it's also a I think it's a really positive album as well in places, you know, and I think that's why it had so much impact and why why why it did well, you know?

Keith Jopling: 23:41

Yeah, exactly. You get a lot of affirmation from it. So you can cut it's cathartic because you can you can kind of wallow in the grief of it. But then yeah, it just brings you up and it sort of indicates that there's a life beyond it. But I mean, it's funny, as you say, because it took you to a different level, which I get. I mean, you kind of expected that with with an album like that, you know, because you weren't expecting it. You were just writing out your grief at the time.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 24:06

I knew when I play it to people I remember having we we had to play back in the softer way and sort of finished it. We had a play back with our press company, hold on nothing at the time. And I remember we spoke with Julian Carrera who was really good press guy, and I remember him and Terry Hall, who's one of the people you know, main people at all Nothing came in and I remember playing it to them. And he just he's just weren't while you struck gold here. That is that word. He said to me. I like assists. See, it had an impact. It was one of those sort of, you know, kind of hairs on the back of the net moment. And it's just had something that record and you know, it's a bit of a it's an unusual record. I mean, because you've got songs like Godzilla on there, you won't come back around and you've got to have a feeling and you've got sick child in you. It's sort of classic feeder because it's got lots of different moods and elements and it's very much like classic boys sort of songwriting being. I'll do that one minute then I'll go through there and I just do it naturally, you know, without really thinking about it. But honestly, Hannah Hart, you know, when I was making that record, I do kind of remember the processes, I sort of started to write it. But a lot of it's actually a blur to me, I think I was just so engrossed in it all. And just, you know, it was just my way of dealing with the whole thing and, and being like, creative, and it was a really, I'm so pleased that I actually went to that studio and did that, because I think we left it too long. I don't know whether we would have just, I don't know if this would have faded away, and maybe I just want to do something else or get to know the band or tackle bands and something else. So we hit a real crossroads. But fortunately, we did an album that just seemed to work. And it was our most successful album, and still is probably our biggest selling album, you know, next to the best seven singles is that

Keith Jopling: 25:45

everything came together, didn't it? Because I mean, obviously the songs is one thing and the songs on there are great. It's one of those sort of consistent in a start to finish. You just immerse yourself in it. But there was something about as well the production, the musicality, the strings came in, of course. Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 26:04

we will Gil Norton on that again. So Gil did echo part of this, and he sort of CO I sort of CO produced it with him because he knew that the makers, the demos were really good. We used a lot of the demos to solving the replay stuff. You know, we were just using like program drums at the time. And obviously Muybridge came in and did the drums did a brilliant job. Yeah. So we're good. And he was great, because he just guided me through stuff. Although I had a real vision for it. He was just there to do his thing, because he's such a great producer and the engineer on that started off with Matt, and that Simon who was the engineer that did all the demos with me. And then he just I think he found it quite an emotional time. And he was he was quite close with John. Yeah. And he just, he just needed to get away from it for a while. So Adrian Bushby ended up being the engineer on the album and went on to do some huge bands like Muse and everybody Foo Fighters and stuff. So we had a really good team of people Adrian Bushby engineering lucky on on, you know, a co producing with me, it was just it just all came together and you know, with the help of their, you know, their belief and guidance as well. But yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm really proud of that record. I mean, I don't sit down and think oh, yeah, I love that pretty well. But there is something about that, that I think will always have a place in what we do. It does a certain thing. And there's a few songs on there that I think are timeless sounds a little bit like to understand I could begin but I think a few times tracks on there all silly time has succeeded tracks. So I know where we're playing. Certainly if the rest of our career. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 27:29

no, I agree. I don't think that album will ever age. Just because of the way it sounds. Yeah, to be honest, you know, we've

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 27:36

never gone out you know, most bands, even in huge bands have gone out and done that, you know, everyone does that album. You know, they go out and do an album and it's terribly low, obviously. Yeah, they send about two or three I think I think even music done a couple I think it's something we've always been asked to do. And I've never wanted to do it. But there is a time I have been thinking about it that I'm thinking it would be nice maybe between maybe putting out another feeder record at some point or maybe when don't feel like writing as much. I would love to go out and sort of learn that a whole album and just go out and do the whole record is to go somewhere special and just see tonight somewhere or something. And they can Yeah, and you know, maybe sort of you know, rereleased out to some zine or something a bit special. That will be a really fun thing to do. You know,

Keith Jopling: 28:17

I think it's a great thing to do. Because it's you know, as a band has been around and you've achieved longevity is kind of going back and celebrating those really big moments, as you say, and it is a classic so yeah, I mean it look if you do that I'm I'm in the front. Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 28:32

I mean, I mean, there's other albums that people like to see, you know, some people who love our first sight kind of thing. And you know, there's there's lots been said that to me feels like if we're going to do one first that feels like the right one to do. I think it's a 20 I think it's like 20 year anniversary coming up as well. So might be a good time in the next few years to do it

Keith Jopling: 28:48

is it's gonna be the 20th anniversary next year.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 28:52

I can't believe it's that long ago. It's just it's just flown by but you know, the thing is because I'm always writing and I always like creative you know, I'm always kind of more excited about doing new music as most people are but it would be nice to do that at some point. And it's you know, somebody could just go and I wouldn't over milk it I would make it quite a special thing. I know some artists I know Travis were doing some festivals want to interesting like the man who was something which was very successful. You know, we might do a few more shows with it. But I wouldn't want to do a massive tour. I want to make it really really special for people coming into it and make it special for us and a bit of a you know, a bit of a celebration evening really, you know, we probably would do the whole album then do a couple of classic theater songs at the end of the encores or something. That's it. That's how most people do it.

Keith Jopling: 29:36

Yeah, I saw I mean I had Suzanne Vega on on the show last time actually. She toured solitude standing and 99.9 Fahrenheit. She told them together so she did back to both albums. That was absolutely incredible.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 29:50

Yeah, that's got to be quite a workout. Yeah. For us.

Keith Jopling: 29:53

It's a bit of effort. Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 29:55

for the Rocky IV I have to get into training for that one but yeah, I'm I think we could pull off most of that stuff. I mean, you know, I think we I feel very confident I could, you know, that we can nail all the conflicts and stuff if we, you know, you know, via a few rehearsals, because obviously, we still play some of those songs live. But yeah, you know, we might do something a bit special, you know, it might be nice to have some, maybe some real strings or something. I'm not sure. I mean, I don't know. But it's something I hopefully would love to do before we call it a day. And I think it'd be a really fun thing to do. And, and there's that work, we can do some all records in different albums afterwards.

Keith Jopling: 30:31

Going back to that, as you as you mentioned, it took you to a different level of success. Because it was about the whole album, not not just the single done your albums had been critically reviewed. Before that we had some big singles. I mean, did you feel conflicted? In a way? Because you'd lost John by then kind of missed out on that? I mean, how did you feel when when you were riding the wave,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 30:54

I have no doubt, we would have made a good album, you know, with Jon Snow because I'd always started to write something. I mean, I started to write come back around, I hadn't finished it. And I remember playing it touched on. And literally, the reason why Godzilla was on the album was because I play that song to John and, and he really liked it. And it felt like it had to be on there for that reason. And it was the whole goal sort of thing came because he bought this Godzilla toy or in Japan, I always remembered it. And he's sitting in my studio for ages. I'm still there. But yeah, it's funny what, you know, what inspires you. So there was a lot, there was a lot of, you know, thinking back to him, and, you know, just our journey so far as a band that didn't obviously go into that record. But he I did feel a little bit sad about it. So I thought Yes, same, he's not going to enjoy it. But you know, John died over 20 years ago. And I you know, and obviously, I'm not ever going to ever like forget in the sort of lives on on those first three records. Well, four, oh, it includes swim. But we have moved on as a band, you know, that part of feeder is still kind of there through the songs. But I've you know, I've read a lot of songs since it's a lot more we've made more albums since he died. I think people hopefully you know, will realize that as well, because he was you can't move on as a band. You can't just keep going back and being you know, as useful. I'd like to I love it. But I do think about it a lot. And sometimes on stage, I don't normally get emotional at all. But I had one moment on the toilets for in Cardiff, where I was said something about a mentioned him I was playing high or something. And I got I literally had to turn towards a junkie, I obviously lost the Irish day. It was the I don't know where it came from. And, you know, the bad luck can be thinking, Whoa, yo, what's going on? And I was just like, I literally had to really pull myself together actually, to sort of little things just suddenly hit you like that? You know, I think it's the same with anyone who loses something. Yeah. What do you think about a family member with T by 10? What it does is this creeps up on you at weird times, isn't it? Well, I

Keith Jopling: 32:47

mean, especially through songs. So you know, in a way, it's not surprising? Or is it surprising that you managed to sort of go and perform those songs without cracking up? Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 32:55

I think it's because we were in Cardiff. And it was that kind of you know, we were both, you know, obviously born in Newport. And it was always I always feel a bit more when I go back to Wales about that, you know, how we started having that. So yeah, it does that's coming on. But at the same time, you know, you have to move on. He says, I had to just have to remember the good times or whatever, and do it but yeah, I mean, I wish he could have been there to enjoy conference saying so I think we'd have had a good album either way. It may maybe it would have been probably, you know, different lyrically and stuff like that, and maybe some of the songs, you know, would have been different, but I still think we'd have maybe, you know, like a really strong record. I think we were kind of on that. We were sort of doing that as a band. Okay, it was it was still very slow, because we've always been on we've been one of those bands, you know, we've had to work for it. You know, we didn't have the big powerful label, you know, throwing money at us. You know, from day one, we had to Reno we had a good label called arco, but they weren't a big major. So we didn't have such a big launch pad as maybe some of our bands did at the time. But we're still here. So we did something right.

Keith Jopling: 33:52

That's a bit of a blessing, I think just to take your time and have the steady progress.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 33:57

Yeah, you know, they were very good with us because they did you know, they did trust it. And they they trusted me in the studio, you know, with that being in there on our own without, you know, coming down every five minutes or hassling us because I used to hate that I used to like, you know, I love just having that little bit of time away and sort of space, not being hassled by a&r Man coming in every five seconds. And, and it gave us a lot of freedom. And I think the fact we were on a small label that helped and I think they just sort of I think they just believed in the band and in the songwriting. Yeah, you know, you know, I was very lucky, because I know, some bands had it a lot. You know, they were very much sort of the a&r man be going down every five minutes and trying to change something and it's just kind of sometimes you can lose the vibe, you know, we were lucky, you know, I wouldn't change it. Honestly, I wouldn't change it. You know, maybe if we'd had a little bit more budgets and those big records that came out, they would have reached a bit further worldwide, but that's just life can't Yeah, there's no point dwelling on it.

Keith Jopling: 34:48

Yeah. Because, you know, when you went from comfort and sales to pushing the sensors, it was kind of a progression of the theme, wasn't it? Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 34:55

those albums are very connected, I think usually in some way because they felt actually a bit more commercial. have, you know, we were toying with a lot of very big bands at the time as well. So we were playing big stadiums and big arenas. So I was writing songs that I felt could, you know, would work in that environment as well. I think you without even knowing it, you know, sounds like senior moments, stuff like that. I know some of the kind of more rock heavier feet of fans, I think there maybe was something a bit heavier, but it's still you know, I still think this some good songs on that record, and it's still a, there's a couple of big hitters on there that we did that we still play. I mean, like feeling a moment is very well known for you the song and people. I've met so many people that don't actually know the name for either so well, but they know our music. It's bizarre, even after all these years, you know,

Keith Jopling: 35:38

it's a big streaming song, isn't it? Feeling moments like this?

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 35:43

Sport is probably one of our most succinct songs actually TV, anything from, from NASA chef to sports, everything. It's just anything

Keith Jopling: 35:52

requiring the off the shelf anthem. I mean, how does that? How does that feel to you? Because, yeah, I mean, you, you know, it was an emotional anthem, but it is it's kind of it's shoehorned into those anthemic TV moments, I guess you got to be grateful for that. Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 36:07

I'm very drawn to choruses. And if people call them anthem, I'm very, you know, I like to sing along courses. I like melodies I always have. And I just have this or that's this kind of how I write, um, you know, we naturally have a big sound, you know, I'm sort of known for that big sort of feeling guitar sound and tech or doing a C on bass. And, you know, we've always had like, amazing drummers, you know, after this and charmy works, as soon as suddenly great drummers, you know, obviously, Mike Richardson, and carb was still, and we're working with Jeff Holroyd. Now, and Damon Wilson, I mean, they've all been amazing drummers, because they have to be good, because they're telling you about the drums on the field stuff. It's not easy to play, you know, it's like, proper, you know, it's like, you know, stuff, there was some of the girls stuff. And, you know, and I think that, you know, we've always had a good band, and, you know, there's only two of us in the band officially. But when we go live, you know, we're very much about everyone's together. And we're, you know, we're close, you know, it's just haven't quite made that commitment to do the whole full five piece band thing. I don't know, maybe it's going back to the, to the whole John thing in my mind. I'm not sure. But, you know, maybe it'll happen one day, but you know, but it works really well. Now, you know, we feel like a band, and it's great. And everyone gets on really well, you know, we're really enjoying touring at the moment, which is, you know, which is nice, because some bands who've been around a long time, are often a bit jaded and don't really talk to each other. You know, I've seen it so many times. Well, exactly.

Keith Jopling: 37:27

And it becomes like a business relationship. And I suppose that's, well, you know, you've got that the Brotherhood still there between you and taco. And it's just, it's very cool.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 37:37

Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, we have, you know, we have our own lives, you don't see that. So when we get together, you know, we do it, and it's great. And we still got a pub together and all that stuff. No, it's, there's like a respect there. I mean, talking, you know, he's quite, he doesn't sort of always say a lot, but the fact he's there every now and I know, he's, he's still digging it. And, you know, we've been, you know, we've been a band for so long now, you know, but it doesn't feel that long. I know, it might to some people, they probably seeking God, they're still going these guys, but it really feels it's odd. But it still feels it feels like that there's a spark there. And I think every record and certain thing can keep things fresh and keep things going. And I really try and work towards doing that, you know, but at the same time, I don't want to try and be a band that we're not I don't want to lose our identity. And I think it's important for a band, it's all about the songs at the end of the day, if you've got good songs, just do it. Because that's, that's what kind of band we are, we're not going to solely go out and make dance record. It just wouldn't be the right thing to do. I mean, it may happen, but it's unlikely I might do a dance record with somebody else or to like collaboration or attack might do something but as the fee does sound we do we experiment so much already.

Keith Jopling: 38:45

I was gonna ask you about that because you know, the songs pour out of you and you know, you, you know your way around a melody and a chorus of you, you must have been tapped up to write for others. I have been

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 38:55

asked a lot. I used to really annoy publishers because I used to get asked here and I'd be like, can I just write a song and say, Here it is. And I I'm just so I just want to be part of that kind of sausage factory songwriting thing, because some people do it really well. And they're very good at it. And they and they earn a lot of money if they have success. I know some people that have heard of fortunately that are very much were in bands under the radar. Now they don't even play live. They're making a killing. Yeah, he always takes that the right song with the right artists is suddenly you know, you're talking some serious money. Keith

Keith Jopling: 39:27

here, thanks for listening to the art of longevity. I hope you're enjoying the conversation so far. Please tell your friends, listen back to the other episodes. And don't forget to subscribe on whatever podcast platform you listen to. Back to the conversation. The way that songs are constructed in the way that you write them, as you say with you know, they do have a commercial wrapper around them somewhere they're accessible, right? That's that's the thing I think people are people are putting together teams of 10 people to write a song like that these days. Oh

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 40:00

my god, if you see some of the Ryan credits and some of the songs He's on leave, but look, I have done a few things but am I stellar record Yorktown Heights was me I was writing for an acoustic artist I was thinking of that I was asked, maybe it was one of the songs, and I just got so close to the record, it just became such a family personality, I was like, I don't really want to give them away. So I just put it, so just put it out. And you know, and he's just, and I kind of loved it. And I love that record. I'm really proud of that record. But it was quite different to what I do with the DNA didn't have the big heavy guitars on it. But that was quite refreshing, because you know, I write everything pretty much on acoustic. But yeah, I mean, to answer your question, I do get asked to do it. And you see ultimate compliment. And I still feel like very flattered when I do. But I've done a little bit. But I haven't done the whole kind of, I haven't committed to doing it in a full time way. But if it's the right artists or the right band, and I'd be very happy doing it, but it has to be the right artist or the right band for me, because I just don't want to feel like I'm doing it for the wrong reasons. I know my publisher probably hate me to say this. But you know, things might change. I think if we call it a day, and I'm still still writing as much as I am now. I think I'll probably have to do it just to keep my sanity. But then I think I would go in there full hog. And it will be a full time thing to be able to just do do that writing and maybe do I don't even ever even play the live shows after that. I'm not sure. I probably miss it. But But yeah, I've done a few collaborations that benefit from hip hop to all sorts. So I've even got a song Zuko this has gotten his album. Czar, random thing. I yeah, I don't know how that happened. I

Keith Jopling: 41:33

mean, I feel like if I'd heard if I heard a band, play one of your songs, I feel like I would detect that it's you maybe,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 41:42

maybe that's why I'm not very good at convincing myself to it. Because I get probably get attached to that thing. I'll keep it to myself, but okay, you know, keep up the record, but I am going to do a bit more of it. And you know, a good song as a good song. So just as I known as an indie rock writer, or whatever I'm known as I mean, doesn't mean to say that one of the songs will can work for, you know, for any artists, whether it's like an Adele or or young rock band or a pop artist, it's just how you produce it. You know, a good song is a good song. It's kind of where you take it and how that artist does their thing afterwards. But yeah, so it's a long answer. But I am up for do I might do a little bit more being asked Actually, only a few weeks ago, I was asked if I ever think about doing it again. So I might, I might do a bit more CO writes, it's just, I put so much time into theater, it's just, you know, it's just nice to get that kind of that little bit of a window in my head sometimes to I

Keith Jopling: 42:31

don't want to start worrying for you to find the thing. We've led you we've led you astray. But now

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 42:36

listen, I'll still be doing a fee, there will be something like this like slot in between here and there.

Keith Jopling: 42:41

What's your relationship with Buck Rogers these days? Because I think I've heard Buck Rogers half a dozen times. In you know, in the last few months, and I just think you've written so many great songs, the radio just keep playing Bach Rogers. I mean, what do you feel about that? Does it annoy you? Are you just grateful?

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 43:01

Well, it is frustrating, you know, when I do, I do think I've written some songs. I'm personally a lot, you know, more proud of as a songwriter, but they're not, you know, I can beat myself up over it. The whole song was incomplete as to how it came about. I'm sure you know, this story. I've said it a million times. But, you know, I didn't it wasn't originally going to be a fetus song. It was a song. You know, we fact, I will mention it if you've got time, because it touches on the whole copyright thing that we did, we were we were just talking about they're basically to cut long story short, Gil Norton, who's producer that I mentioned that end up being three feet of rap was with us was, you know, you know, we're one of the top kind of indie rock producers in I suppose in the world. You know, he then sort of my favorite bands, Pixies, Foo Fighters, and the Burning Man, all these amazing acts. And he was, you know, pretty hard to get to get to, and I think quite expensive as well. And basically, I know his wife, Fran light feeder, I was told and I think she always mentioned this to Gil saying, I usually work with feeders sometime because he really liked them. Because gills a real song guy. He loves songs and you know, good melodies and stuff like that. Anyway, he was working with us band, I think they changed the name to SR 71. I can't remember what the original name was something star. Anyway, he was in an album of them. I think they were coming to the end of their album. And they were short, the single or something. And I think somehow through the conversation with Gil and his wife, Gil's manager called my manager or feed his manager and asked I'd be interested in maybe you're gonna co write with the, you know, the singer, guitarist of the band. And I was like, wow, and we've done that before. But you know, maybe I'll sort of think about it because this could be a way of me getting to meet Gil fee to get to know him. Yes, it will be fine. So anyway, I went back to my flat in Camden on Camden road and I think I own a bottle of red wine. I just broken up with my girlfriend who's actually now my wife and I was dating a photographer and music photographer for a few for a female So she was dating this guy that was doing that I found out through some other friends. He was a director for the TV adverts. He was doing a car ad like Jaguar was sold. So obviously I had that on my mind. I still kind of liked it. I was thinking he might get back together again, at some point, wrote this line, he's got a brand new car. So Jay, you are probably a little bit drunk a little bit bitter at that time. I don't know. But I thought I'd write a song that's got a bit of the Pixies vibe of addicts, and because because then Gil's gonna like it. And then it's all gonna be fine. Anyway, that is basically about Rogers. They've just guide lyrics written on a very drunk night had a very uplifting chorus. So I think we're gonna make it, it's all gonna be fine. Anyway, I play it to the head of eco who's our labour tire. This is where you can't get the sun away. This is a smasher I went anyway, I think a week later, I went to meet Gil Norton, in my local pub called the Lord Stanley, which is which is still there. It's just top of Camden Road in London. And we got I think we got a little bit drunk together, came back to my flat, I got the acoustic guitar out playing it, but Rogers playing him, I think I paid him seven days in the sun and a few other songs I've been writing. And that was it girl was like, I just want to work with you guys. Keep a song for yourselves. This is a mismatch here. And I'll get like, what as it is, and I was gonna resist anyway. So that that is how amazing so, but I always think to myself, so if I given it to this band, would it have been a hit for them?

Keith Jopling: 46:25

Well, you didn't. And that's the that's the important thing, right? The

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 46:29

whole plan was he was gonna rewrite the lyrics, I wasn't given the song and like the melody, decent and he can go off and do his American lyrics where we want to do and then I actually went to studio Meagan had a bit of fallout because I sort of rewrote all the verse lyrics. I think I still had the chorus the same I think we're gonna make it seems fine. And he didn't like it until we had a bit of a dispute about it. And I got all kind of, you know, a bolshie and awkward about it. And then I backed down and listened to Gil and we kept what were the original lines. And that's what it that's why it's so odd and quirky and silly.

Keith Jopling: 47:02

I love that story. Because it does. It does capture the songwriter in you you know, it's just a stream of consciousness lyrics what was going on in your mind? Yeah, it's

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 47:10

a pop song. It's a pop song. And it's it's funny. How do these things about your muse do loads of gigging in like, Corman I mean, again, Devon and stuff. And it was obviously always just these little things in my head at the time, and it's just went down as guide lyrics as you often do, you know, and but it is something that so I think, even when people I know, some journalists, you know, thought it was a bit didn't realize at the time or whatever, but I think it's so that lived all the criticism, because it's still it's still there. And it's this funny little thing I don't, I don't beat myself up over it anymore. Because I know I've written songs that I personally think are better or do a different thing. But that does a certain thing. And people some Well, a lot of people still love it. And it's just a weird one.

Keith Jopling: 47:51

Well, I'm going to a royalty check from that every quarter must be a nice sweetener for

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 47:58

the heart. Yeah, I mean, it did well, I mean, it's one of those tracks where when you roll up to do a festival, and you've got a song like that in the set doesn't matter. Yeah, you've met Yeah, you'll be uh, you know, that, you know, there'll be someone in the audience service. And now that song, and it's quite, and it always gets the reaction.

Keith Jopling: 48:14

But it's one of those songs as well. Because you're talking to Tim booth of, of James about, you know, sit down,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 48:22

as he that was Gil Norton did that as well. Okay. So

Keith Jopling: 48:27

Well, I mean, you know, you can have a complex relationship with songs like that, because the thing is, you turn up to the festival, especially if it is a festival rather than, you know, a feeder show, and people would just expect to hear it. They're almost calling for it. And maybe sometimes you don't want to play it.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 48:42

No, I don't always want to play and I remember. I mean, you know, it's not because I don't want to be one of those bands where you can pay all the way to go and see your favorite band. They don't play any of the songs that sit you kind of heard on the radio they used to play with with REM I know Michael Stipe just wouldn't play shiny apple people. And that was it. I know. That's it, because I know he didn't really like the song. And although it was a massive hit for them. It's pretty one the most commercial songs in a bizarre way that was out there. Kind of but Rogers us.

Keith Jopling: 49:08

You have to rest it though, don't you? I mean, you do have to rest the song like that. Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 49:12

I mean, we did rested. We when we when we toured, we went on tour, Coldplay, and it was on it was around conflict sign out. And it just didn't feel like the right song to play on that. Just around that record. And just, you know, what, what was trying to do on what we were trying to do as a band, something musically. We didn't do it for the whole tour until we got to London. We did it all was caught with them. And we just thought last year, this let's throw that one in and with throws just today, and the places went off. And we were like, oh maybe we should have played these for the rest of it. It was like you know, we were trying to be all cool environment everything like being an amphibian, I suppose kind of fitting a bit more of a Coldplay,

Keith Jopling: 49:52

gotta leave these things on a high you've got people wanting more. That's how you keep the energy for next time. And it's

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 49:58

what is what made this different to go play, and it just worked, and it just went off. And I was thinking, Yeah, you know, verbalize these things, people at gigs, they come along, they just want to have a great time. And they want to hear someone say no and sing along, have a few drinks. And that's what it's all about. And you know, and I think sometimes you can overanalyze it and try be too cool for school. But no, it is a song that, you know that it's nice to rest it once in a while. But I feel like I'd be shortchanging the fans, if I didn't ever play it. And, you know, it's just what, what, three minutes? Three and a half minutes of fun, you know, yeah, I

Keith Jopling: 50:31

think when, you know, bands that have songs like that, and I mean, most bands have been around for as long as you have, they've got one or two of them. I think we're going to be hearing a lot of them when they come back playing live, because it's always almost like we all we deserve it. You know, those, those songs? We really need that three and a half minutes to just release? Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 50:50

I mean, we only got a few of those, you know, that. I mean, that's obviously when I mean, I mean, just today is equally popular that people go insane to that, honestly, when we play that we had a stage invasion in Tokyo, where I don't ever see the footage on YouTube, where literally the whole audience, which is not very, I mean, it's a Japanese audience, you know, they're super, like polite normally. So it's not the sort of thing when we get in Japan. So to have a stays in Japan is, is quite something but just as a, I would say, is a real cult feeder song that that is out there with Buck Rogers, you know, seven days in sounds really proper, just one funny thing. I mean, you know, there is a few other ones as well, you know, when you put them all together, you've got you know, it's sort of, you know, you've got almost like a sort of half a set, it's all your best sort of thing. So it's quite hard to leave them out sometimes. Although, you know, as you say, it's quite nice to sort of rest and here and there. Well,

Keith Jopling: 51:38

you've written a lot of successful songs, but when you've kind of gone through those periods, because, you know, over 30 odd years things have been flow, and they have faded, it feels like you've come back, since to Lula, really with with a lot of energy, but it hasn't always been there. Have you got through the kind of periods where you think those songs aren't coming or commercially, you know, you've ebbed and flowed for a while they're there. You weren't in the charts anymore after, I guess, pushing the senses. How do you cope with those kind of periods where things are not always going? as smoothly as they might? Yeah,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 52:15

I mean, obviously, some records have come along at the right time. Some haven't. I mean, we've always been, you know, we've done always done pretty well, even even some of the albums that weren't, maybe he's well known, you know, still child that quite high. We've always been sort of in the 20s, or terms in general, we haven't had one that's really, that hasn't actually even even some of the less commercial ones. I mean, I thought generation free show was a really commercial record, but it just came out at the wrong time. You know, maybe we didn't have the right label. I'm not sure. But, you know, I mean, yeah, I mean, the album, I think there was our comeback record, come back, some of the other went away, but was the one that I felt was a real, you know, a turn to, I don't know, it just felt like it had something bad, it was all electric. And it was, you know, it was top 10 album, A lot people don't, you know, don't on that aware of that record. And it was really, you know, that was really important record for us, because it was definitely showing a lot more rock side. And then that one sort of flow naturally into let's do that. And, you know, well, as you know, we had the best stuff in between, and then we're going to share it with some Academy and I said on stage, we kind of have a little bit of time, everyone's thinking, Oh, God, what's going on and what I meant I just wanted to have a break and not just do that album, you know, to tour album tour, I just want to have a little bit of a break just to think about stuff. That's why I was gonna do a bit of CO writing. Then I did a solo record, attacker was doing some side projects out in Japan. So I thought it's a good time for me to do it. Now. His projects didn't carry on as long as I thought it would so I think was a bit difficult for him because I took about four years because I started to work put a solo album called Yorktown Heights and a mini album called black clouds. I did quite a few shows when or when Europe went to do to Japan and I just loved it, it was great. And then it was time to come back to you know, to my main priority which is feeder. So that's maybe why we know we said then maybe it felt like there was a bit of a lull. But, you know, it wasn't that I stopped it was just that we weren't doing the you know, the usual kind of feeder album tour album tour album tour. So we just had a little bit of a break and I think it was really although it might be frustrating for you for tackling for some of the crew and stuff like that. I think it was I think it was a really good thing for the band. I think it was good for me as a writer and I think it just ignited a spark when we came back and that's when we released all electric into the best of and then obviously your Talulah I just think the timings has been better for us on certain records and I think I think it's the same for any band you know, it's certainly album just seems to have a bit more support radio or in the press or just seems to connect with people more I mean it doesn't mean every bands got that album we've seen no is really good. This is didn't quite get there, you know just didn't quite get the exposure. I think we've had a couple of those you for sure. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 54:55

I can see what you're saying about the treadmill a bit because I think some Have it is this sort of album tour cycle that that is so hard to do, then it's just keep coming out with another album that is somehow progressive but doesn't lose your previous audience. Yeah, I mean that the way that you write songs doesn't necessarily always fit with it.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 55:19

No, no, it's true. I mean, that's some of the bands that we grew up with the bands we used to get to pursue. It's like smashing pumpkins, stuff like that. They've had some absolute hollow albums, either completely under the radar and still do. And they were, they were the biggest fan the world was at one point, they were massive. So you know, if you think about what we've managed to achieve, is that was actually going okay, actually, because it doesn't matter how big a band you are, at some point, it's not guaranteed for every record. And, you know, I think it's very, I think it's very few bands that do that, you know?

Keith Jopling: 55:48

Yeah, I agree. I mean, you say lucky. But, I mean, we've talked about, you know, the ebbs and flows and some of the records and some of the tours, but you've been in the game for a long time, you still seem to have you seem eternally youthful, and you've got a lot of energy enthusiasm, which I'm not really

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 56:06

a fan of you because I would say, you know, what, I want to say, look, I mean, we've worked really hard, I think we've been very consistent. I think I'm very, very fortunate that and I think it's good. I think the band's was it that I still have this sort of drive and, you know, ability to still, you know, love writing music and do what I do. And tech is like really youthful. He's fantastic. Like, he's sort of, you know, so visual, and he's still got that energy, you know, you know, when I was spring chickens, but we don't, you know, it does, it does Kiki and I think that you have to sort of, you have to look after yourself a bit more as you get older. And, you know, in fact, it's harder in some way. Because the, you know, the sets are so much longer than they used to be when we started out, you know, we still play half an hour, 45 minutes, and I just go and go out there and people go, are you gonna scream as much as you used to? And from the earliest? I was like, Well, number one, I don't feel this, I need to scream. I'm not angry about this. So I don't want to be this fake emotion. And also, you know, I wouldn't have been to do that back in the day for two hours. You know, a lot of those bands that the so called groans years were doing that they weren't doing particularly long sets, it was just the vibe that and and that time, you have to kind of adapt as you move on as a band. You don't use this rock in a different way. I think you know, because otherwise, I think it's a bit embarrassing. You know, it's a bit like trying to, you know, we're not teenagers. I'm not trying to be, but I still think we're as powerful as a band, if not more powerful in some lessons wouldn't be starting. It's just different. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 57:27

yeah, you've got to pace yourself. But you've got you've, you've got so many records now in the catalog. But I suppose curation of your own catalog is important when it comes to live. It's like

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 57:38

it's an absolute curse. Sometimes I'm a nightmare with setlist I drive everyone insane. Because it's, it's difficult because I know, it's a bit like having the album sequence. If you get if you get in the wrong order, it can really throw things off. If you're somebody that listens to an album, you know, from start to finish, like Oh, too, and having you know, getting a set balance is very difficult. Because you know, you've got this, you've got this voice in your head saying, oh, we need to play all the best song songs. And then we want to, you've got this other voice saying, I just really want to rock out today. And then some days, you want to do some really mellow stuff. So it's trying to get that balance is very difficult. And obviously, what I would say is what when it's an album tour tour, like this is going to be that torpedo at all, like the Conference Center is I just think people have to come to shows expecting to hear a new record, because what's the point? You know, otherwise, we just be doing a best of the year for the rest of our lives. And, you know, we're always gonna do a best offset at festivals and things like that, and uncertain tours. But you can't do that all the time, you just be playing the same set every tool. So I hopefully people are going to be excited about hearing some new music. We're excited about playing it. Well we often like to do is go back and maybe revisit some really old school early feed stuff that we hardly ever play, because it fits really well with this new record. So we might do a bit of that on the next tour, which I think will be really exciting.

Keith Jopling: 58:56

Yeah, it's I guess it's a nice problem to have. I mean, I saw the Mannix at Wembley last week and that setlist was was just so great because their new album is fantastic. I don't know if it's a cracker. But they did they went right back to sort of, I don't know, I guess late 80s stuff when they've very first it's really really sort of punky heavy stuff. So I guess yeah, you can sort of play around with it.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 59:19

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I mean, you know, we're not that dissimilar Yes, cinematics in some way because we've you know, they've been going a little bit long with us obviously, but not not that much longer but and they've got such a massive catalogue of music and they do have quite a lot of different styles. They've got a bit more chunky earlier stuff, they got around Semak stuff, they got their more poppy stuff, you know, we're not musically that different. You know what I mean? You know, we're a bit heavier at times for them, but I feel a real connection with them. Just our journey hasn't been that dissimilar. I don't think I've met James and stuff and and obviously, Nicky, you know, we those few times I get, you know, the nice guys,

Keith Jopling: 59:50

here's an interesting thing, cuz James wrote the new album sitting down at the piano and I think it's the first Yeah, he's done that. That will be interesting to see Do you do something like that? Because I know you play a bit.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 1:00:02

Yeah, I'm not I'm not very good. Actually. I'm not I'm literally really crap, but I don't I haven't finished on some piano I do. I've got like a Wurlitzer my thing. I mean, I've put keyboards all over feedstuff he's just sort of in there, people don't realize how much keyboards there is, or if it's if there's loads of strings and you know, quirky synths and you know, with a Merlot sirs and Rhodes pianos, I'm a terrible player, but I kind of like that. Because if I if I want to like something, which I can't do, then are some amazing keyboard players that I say like, I need this. This needs to be a proper hammer and like, yeah, there's some people can do that. Well, not many people actually. But I like to kind of just try and do it yourself. Because I don't want to be I quite like the way it sort of pushes you to do things a bit differently. And it's a little quirky things sometimes you don't always get from a from a keyboard player. So it's all part of the production thing. But yeah, I think a lot of stuff away for a few weeks, I get my head back into playing a bit more. I wouldn't I don't know if I could do a whole album piano, but I could certainly go back to doing a few songs and you know, just just to keep it interesting, you know?

Keith Jopling: 1:00:59

Yeah, it certainly worked for them. I have to say there was a little I think that's sort of right back to 1981 with some Abbott influence and everything. But I mean, James can write a song of course, and so can soak in Nicky wire.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 1:01:10

Yeah. WABC real song guy, you know that, you know, he's, uh, you know, he likes to pop songs. He mentioned Abba. I mean, I, you know, when first albums I've listened to when I was, like, super young with my dad was like Abba arrive, I think I'd bought it and I'm going back, you know, a super, super young. And, you know, because they This was amazing pop songs, you know, the timeless songs and I can totally see why James and mathematics or a kind of internet as well, you know, well,

Keith Jopling: 1:01:33

look, I've got one foot one more question for you, which is, I mean, both songwriting still, you know, it's still around, there's some great lone gun songwriters, if you like singer songwriters, they're doing incredible things now, and also guitar bands are back. But you know, this show is about longevity, which is why I'm speaking to people like you. I mean, I worry that despite the level of talent around now, longevity is the problem. I mean, what do you have any advice? Do you have any wisdoms, anything that you pass on that you think would help?

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 1:02:05

You know, it is really difficult. I mean, it's always been difficult, you know, D music and being in a band is always a dream. And I, you know, I wanted to be in a band that was like, 10 years old. And I kind of knew, that's what I really wanted to do. That's what I was gonna do. I was very lucky that I kind of had that in my mind. Because, you know, most people, kids somewhat clue what they want to do until they're probably in their late teens, whatever. But I would say, look, it is a difficult industry, I wouldn't be late it was it was difficult. When we started there, it was really hard. And it's difficult now and in some way, it's, it's easier to make music now. It's easier to be in a band now than it was back then I think because you can you can, you can make albums in your bedroom, can really do that back in those days, you didn't have like, technology like it is now. But at the end of the day, it's all about songs as well. It's about songwriting. So you know, some of the young bands, I've seen it really, really good. But sometimes I think like, your cover songs, they could just be there, you know. So I would say it's always about the songs always about the tunes that is so important. I think it's kind of believe in yourself. I know, it's an old cliche, but if we didn't believe in ourselves, we wouldn't be here now. Because I can tell you, we came out against quite a few people saying not into the kind of music, or, you know, some of the press didn't, didn't didn't like us or get us or whatever. And we were like, well, you know, we're going to do it because we feel we've got something. And we were very stubborn. And I was very, very, very focused on that. So I would say to say keep at it, you know, don't don't let anyone put you off and also get ideas from other music and and but then you have to make it your own in some way. That's quite important as well. You know, it was used as become the next cell inside people, maybe not so much. Now, in the old days, people used to love to label bands, you know, we have certainly definitely no, no, it was always the British smashing pumpkins or something. Yeah, you know, we were we were lucky because of these we've got got label to quite a cool band. But yeah, it's just try and find your own your own identity sometimes. But any advice, don't sign anything until you really know that's the right label or the right manager, because if he's a good manager, if he put some of that pressure on you to sign a deal, then it's just not fair on the band, he needs to really spend time and see what they can do for you. Don't sign any deals until you really know he or she is the right person for you. Obviously a good manager is so important. Otherwise, just just like manage yourself for a while. Yeah,

Keith Jopling: 1:04:19

it seems it does seem to be the way because you just say it's easier to make music but then because of that, so many more people are doing it and I think it is just having that sort of belief and that sort of core. Yeah, small team around you, which is what people like Sam fender seem to be operating that way. It's like you know, the inner circle that's just going to keep you keep you honest.

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 1:04:42

He always say also don't follow the trends. I always said that because a lot there's a lot of really interesting artists that come on by and you know, some of them are really nice, his influence and some of them. There's lots of stuff I'm hearing it really reminds me of a lot of indie bands I grew up with and stuff. I think God you know, how do they find out about that? So I think sometimes It's just a bunch of sort of hits on the sand, it might be a sand that we know, you know, was around in the early 90s doesn't matter because, you know, for a lot of young kids, they still haven't heard a lot of that, that music. So just do your thing and just be yourself and, you know, try and write the best songs you can, it's still a great career, you know, when things sort of come together, it can be great, but I'd be lying to you, if I said this, you do have to work hard. If there is a lot of work, I always say, you know, just make sure that you you know, they grow a thick skin as well because, you know, you you always take a few knocks along the way, right, you know, and I think even more so now because, you know, with social media, everyone's a critic, you know, everyone you know, every fan that was put a comment out there and that can be quite difficult sometimes even the even for ourselves, you know, you know when these this read one comment, it can really winds you up and Annika shatter your confidence sometimes, you know, if you read too much sort of negative stuff online. So just believe in yourselves. It's all about the tunes. There you go. That's my advice.

Keith Jopling: 1:06:00

All right. Well, Grant has been such a pleasure to talk to you. And I can't wait for the album. And I can't wait to come and see you at Brixton. I'm sorry, I wouldn't. We're not going to see you at the Heritage life thing. But I mean, there's nothing we can do about that now. Well,

Grant Nicholas, Feeder: 1:06:13

we and well, unless somebody pulls out and they ask us again, I'll be there. But you know, yeah, this is a shame because I'd like to have done that. But you know, I understand the politics. And

Keith Jopling: 1:06:20

whatever you do in the future. I mean, you know, I'm always going to be a fan of yours and spread the word. It's great to see. See you later, Grant. Best of luck. Take care. Thanks, Jess. Bye bye.