Talking about me behind my back.

Join us as Karen Koehler explores the power of defying expectations, the courage to disrupt, and the journey of being unapologetically yourself. Discover how she handles being talked about behind her back and the strength it takes to stay true to her convictions.

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Hosted by Karen Koehler and Mo Hamoudi, trial lawyers at Stritmatter Law, a nationally recognized plaintiff personal injury and civil rights law firm based in Washington State.

Produced by Mike Todd, Audio & Video Engineer, and Kassie Slugić, Executive Producer.

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Transcript

One thing I'm grateful that my parents did was not raise me to be a good girl. They didn't raise any of their children to be good girls or good boys in the traditional sense. They wanted us to do what was right. They wanted us to fight for what we believed in. They did overall, want us to be polite, although their actions didn't always show us that that was necessary. But we certainly were not told that we had to be good. And as I head towards my next year of life in July, I think back on how did I get to the state where I am today of not only not being considered to be a good girl, but. And here's some words that have been used to describe me. The most polarizing person I have ever met, end of quote. That, by the way, from a plaintiff lawyer, not to my face. Most of this, not to my face. B, a disruptor. C, a bomb thrower. Yes, definitely to my face. I will agree to that person who is always challenging authority. I mean, my gosh, do you think I was a rebel or something? Sometimes when I hear those words, I think about my mom. And I am so far from being like my mom in my own mind. I just. I have a hard time reconciling it. And then I think, well, maybe I'm not that far down different. Maybe I'm not so different than my mom in certain respects. Mainly, I don't feel any need to be a, quote, good girl. So let's talk about some of this stuff. Number one, let's start with talking about me behind my back. This apparently is a much delighted pastime for many people who either maybe know me, kind of know me, have heard about me, don't know me, and are finding it tantalizing to get to know me by talking about me behind my back. The thing about talking about. Someone behind their back in a small community, especially if you're a plaintiff lawyer, is that eventually it will come around that you said something or participated in the saying of something. Let's put it this way. I know a lot of people that have talked smack about me, and unless there's someone I'm in an active relationship with, I'm not going to say anything to them until the time is right, if at all. I would like to say that I don't care and a big part of me doesn't care. But like all human beings, right, we want to be liked. I've talked about this before, earlier on the Haters episode with Andrew. Don't we all want to be liked? In fact, I've been deluded into thinking that most people like me. I think they do. Jurors have all told me, for example, they kind of like me. They all like me. Because I'm really not that obnoxious. I'm straightforward. I probably am a little unrelenting, dogged, I guess, but. Its people that experience me outside of that, I guess, arena of civility who have problems with me. Polarizing. That word is often applied by me in context of legal organizations, and it's applied to me because I am polarizing within legal organizations. I am a bomb thrower. I am a disruptor. I am a small terrorist cell of one. And the reason is, is because most legal organizations were created by men, for men, that is, white man. And change is too slow to come, if at all. I have batted my head against the doors of these organizations for a long time, continue to stay within them, even when I'm tired of them, when I see that change is not coming enough fast for me, I still will stay in them because it was good for my, I don't know what my resume, but at the age of 63, almost soon to be 64, I don't care. Care anymore. As I've told you, it's not important to me to have something on my resume like that. She belongs to this organization. No, I don't care. Who cares? And I've talked about this before. I resign now. I don't resign the way that probably a polite person would resign. A non polarizing, disrupting person would not say, you should have given me the trial of the year by now. Since you didn't, goodbye. And good luck finding more diverse young members. That is called a bomb throw. That aggravates and agitates people. I get it. But so what? The thought of. Of these supposed colleagues of mine bothering to talk about my little acts of individual rebellion in the context of these patriarchal, white, male founded organizations, it's just so petty. Most recently, I'm told that a person is talking about me behind my back with another person who doesn't even know me behind my back. Like, none of whom were actively involved with anything that I had to say. They just had heard it. What the heck? Maybe I should be flattered because I've reached such exalted status that they can talk about me as if I'm some kind of a I don't know, mini celebrity, which I'm not. But in the small plaintiff bar, I guess there's nothing better to do than to tear someone like me down. If you want to say something negative about me, just say it to my face and then say it to other people. Don't say it to other people and wait for it to get back to me. Don't invite me to your parties either, because I've blocked you. Okay, maybe I unblocked you, because that's so petty. Now, part of me has thought to myself, karen, when you hear someone's talked about you behind your back, you really shouldn't get mad. You should just be sad, because that's a more genuine emotion. Anger, as we all know, through therapy, is a cover up for a softer emotion. Sadness feelings of hurt, betrayal, even. But I don't feel betrayed because I don't know these people. I don't feel hurt because they're just talking. Now, if it was something, somebody that I actually did something to, someone that I was in a relationship with, or that was present during one of my little acts of polarizing disruption, that would be one thing. But the hearsay involved here is staggering. For shame. So I hate to admit this, but I'm just ticked. I'm not one bit sad about it. I'm not evolved enough to be sad about it. I guess I think it's petty. Now, I'm totally fine when it is white males that are doing this bad mouthing. That's to be expected, because typically, that's who I'm speaking out against. I'm not as happy when it's the females. White females. I don't care what kind of females. Not as happy because it happens. Why on earth does it happen? I've done some research on this over the years. I first started doing the research in psychology annals because of jurors. I realized as early as the early nineties that I didn't have to worry about the male jurors at all. I had to worry about the female jurors. They were judgy of me. I could feel it, I could see it. They would look me up and down. I saw it play out with Hillary Clinton. Such a bright, bright person, and Michelle Obama such a bright, bright person. Michelle Obama liked. Why? Because she, she sublimated her lawyerness, wore soft, pretty sweaters and dresses, unlike Hillary, who continued to wear her power suits and then ran audaciously for president. Oh, my God. The hate from women. When a woman talks about me behind my back, I know five of them at least. I'm not as ticked off for the sake of ticked off. I'm still ticked off, but I am more troubled. It seems more ill, like it's a more ill of a process. You don't need to knock down a woman in order to lift yourself up above her if you're another female attorney. In other words. Sometimes I get a feeling like there's a vying, there's a competitiveness, there's a something, I don't know what it is. I said I'd talk about this because these episodes just continue. And because no matter how much I ignore them, I think that we as a society, specifically of plaintiff lawyers, but just in general, I think that we're a little sick, we're unhealthy. I remember in high school and junior high and gossip and clicks and mean girls and bad boy, I remember all that stuff and how insecure and wounding and power structure based, all of that gossip was. And you never get away from it. Even when you graduate or don't graduate and move on in life, it still continues. It's kind of sad and pathetic, but I'm just as guilty as other people and looking at misfortunes. I mean, right now, Jlo and Ben Affleck were together, separated for like decades, got back together, got married, and now are separated. And it is riveting. Like every day there's a headline and at this point I'm like, why? Let's leave them alone. But yet, I read the headlines. I read the articles. If they're not completely made up, which probably they are made up, because who knows? I mean, how can they not be made up? We're just guessing. What is it about our human psyche that we're so bored that we have to spend so much time on someone that I never met them, I don't know anything about them. They're not in my world. Why do I care about their personal business? I feel like. I become warped. And sometimes I think it's just. It's the media and the Internet. But, of course, I'm the one that's to blame. There's something in my personality that looks for other people's trials and tribulations, and the tribulation part more than the happy part. I guess that's what it is. Regardless, what I'm learning from this is to think twice before I say something bad about another person. Now, I admit I do it. And you know what I typically do? I typically do it about defense lawyers. I'm sorry, but we have. It's kind of It's kind of like, I guess they would call it gallows humor. Right? You're in. You have to find something amusing to keep you going. In tragic cases like we have for us, a lot of times, it's the defense lawyers. Oh, we have some horrible defense lawyers. I have a trial coming up. I can't stand the defense lawyer. I say many bad things about the defenser to our team, but not about their personal life. Just about. Ugh. Other things. But maybe it's karma coming back to me for talking bad about the defense lawyer. Maybe I need to be a good girl. Oh, my gosh. But, no, I can't become a good girl. I mean, that's where we started off, this whole talk. There is no answer to these questions. Why do we do it? It's something that's inherent in us. Why do we gossip? Why do we listen to gossip? Why do we spread gossip about people we don't even know? I don't know, but I think we should pay a little bit more attention to it. I think that we should think about, especially when we're tearing down another plaintiff lawyer. Why are we saying these things? What evidence do we have of them? Were we there? Do we know? Why do we say what we say? The biggest question of the world over and out?