When Clients Google Their Lawsuit and It Backfires

Episode 11: When Clients Google Their Lawsuit and It Backfires 

Your first instinct after a diagnosis or a sudden injury is to open Google or an AI tool and start researching. It feels responsible. It feels like control.

Karen Koehler, Mo Hamoudi, and Mike Todd take on what that instinct can mean inside a personal injury lawsuit. What happens when defense attorneys ask for a plaintiff’s Google search history?

As more people turn to AI tools like ChatGPT and Copilot to understand their situation and ask what their case is worth, a bigger question follows. If those interactions exist, who gets access to those chat logs? How might courts handle attempts to subpoena or even “depose” an AI assistant?

If you’ve ever Googled your situation while a case is pending, this one will make you think twice.

Follow the show, share it with someone who always Googles first, and leave a review with your take.

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Hosted by Karen Koehler and Mo Hamoudi, trial lawyers at Stritmatter Law, a nationally recognized plaintiff personal injury and civil rights law firm based in Washington State. 

Produced by Mike Todd, Audio & Video Engineer, and Kassie Slugić, Executive Producer. 

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Transcript

Mike Todd 0:07

Okay, so the other day I was uh at the spa sitting in the hot tub and there were these two women talking about how about what they did for for instead of going to the doctor. And one of them was saying how, oh, you know, you can go and have your blood test done and get all the results yourselves, and then I just look it up. Or I've got a friend who she can she can read it for me and and she can tell me what the results are, and then I know what to do. And I thought to myself, hmm, that's kind of funny. Uh you know, there's a lot of stuff that doctors spend a lot of time learning, and then usually these days they specialize very, very, very specifically and learn everything that they can about that. And these two women were saying, Hey, I can just learn the stuff on Google. And I thought to myself, that's pretty dangerous. And then I started thinking about all the people that I've heard that called here that said, Oh, I know I've got a case. This is gonna be one that you're gonna want for sure. Because they went on Google, because they went on Google and and they know everything now. They know exactly, they basically they've gone to law school, is what they're saying. So, and and it and because you've got a license, they can't they can't go do the case on their own. They need to get a lawyer so that they can win. Well, guess what? I've got a million-dollar case for you.

Karen Koehler 1:38

Well, well, let me let me let me let me let me tell you. What a great story. Let me let me stay away from that because I did a deposition last week of an orthopedic surgeon who uh wanted to testify in a case involving um uh uh vascular thoracic outlet syndrome, not neurogenic, which orthopedic surgeons deal with, neurogenic TOS we'll call it. But he was gonna give an opinion on vascular TOS, which he doesn't deal with. So I was taking his deposition and asking him about that. And uh he said, well, when he was in residency, he had done it like 30 years ago, one time. He had never done a surgery involving TOS, that if vascular, if it comes into his office, he would refer it to a uh vascular surgeon or a thoracic surgeon. And uh he had he uh blah, blah, blah, blah. So I said, Well, so how did you learn all about this? And he said, Well, I researched it. And I said, Well, how did you research it? And he said, he didn't say Google.

Mo Hamoudi 2:48

No, I know what he said.

Karen Koehler 2:49

What did what was that thing that he said?

Mo Hamoudi 2:51

He said that he used um It was like Google. It's a new browser, it's called Duck DuckGo.

Mike Todd 2:57

Oh, yeah, that's it.

Karen Koehler 2:58

Who the heck is DuckGo?

Mike Todd 2:59

DuckDuckGo is one that doesn't uh use the tracking stuff that Google and the other major.

Karen Koehler 3:04

Yeah, it's a Google without tracking.

Mike Todd 3:05

Yeah, it's a Google that doesn't track doesn't track your movements as much.

Karen Koehler 3:08

Okay, well, Doctor used Duck DuckGo.

Mike Todd 3:11

Okay.

Can Opposing Counsel Demand Your Searches?

Karen Koehler 3:12

And um so we had some articles that he reviewed to to to do it. Okay. Unfortunately for the doctor, I use Google. And I pulled up a couple research articles, one of which he had used, and so I quizzed him on it, and he did not do very well because he couldn't retain, he did not retain what he learned on the Google. Yeah. And and so it's not just clients, it's shocking. Um the Google thing is here to stay and use it at your own risk. But but say going back to the client, we talked about this, we've been talking about this in the law firm because uh there's some case that came out, I think, in federal court, and there's been a couple cases that have come out on what happens when you have a client that is Googling during your representation of them. So the client is self-educating themselves as you're going through your lawsuit. Okay. And they're looking all this stuff up.

Mike Todd 4:11

And they're contacting you.

Karen Koehler 4:13

Well, they're already our client.

Mike Todd 4:15

No, no, I mean, are they contacting you with the stuff that they're looking up as the case is going on? Oh, they're just doing it without talking to you.

Karen Koehler 4:21

Is that attorney client privilege protected?

Mike Todd 4:24

With them looking up stuff without you? No.

Karen Koehler 4:27

Correct.

Mike Todd 4:28

So they're not talking to you, they're talking to Google.

Karen Koehler 4:31

So what's been happening is that the defense bar has been subpoenaeing, or not subpoenaing, but asking the plaintiffs to produce all of their Google searches of that they're doing for the case, which is very can be very bad.

Mike Todd 4:49

Well, because they're not only getting that stuff, they're getting everything else that's not a good thing.

Karen Koehler 4:52

Well, it also looks like they're super preoccupied, and and you know, maybe they're manufacturing their uh their symptoms or their test you know, there's a whole reason to do it. Like, do not Google. You don't need to Google. Let your attorneys help you and let your doctors help you and just heal. But Google, Google is not good, is not always your friend. Okay, go ahead, Mo.

Mo Hamoudi 5:20

I mean, that's not realistic advice because most people are gonna be thinking about a problem, thinking about an issue, a legal issue, and the first thing they do is they go to AI models and chat GPT and Claude and now Google, which is powered by an AI, AI machine, and they're gonna ask questions to better understand what the situation is, because that's what people do. That's what the purpose of it is.

Karen Koehler 5:46

Well, then that's gonna be discovered.

Mo Hamoudi 5:48

But um the the the um you know, they'll say things like, What's my case worth?

Karen Koehler 5:54

Oh god.

Mo Hamoudi 5:55

You know, or they'll say, you know, I mean that's what they'll say.

Karen Koehler 5:58

Who says that?

Mo Hamoudi 5:59

I mean, that's that's what they people do, I'm sure they do. They go, What's my case? Or you know, what other you know, are there other cases like this? My like my case to see and learn. You know, the or they call or they call with that.

Mike Todd 6:14

With that. I saw I saw I saw this in the media case and I've got this case that's like that.

Mo Hamoudi 6:21

So I is it is it like will it destroy the client's case? Well, no, unless they wrote something like, How do I make up how would I make up symptoms of this? Or something that suggests fraud. But re the reality is that is it is it privileged? No. But there's an argument to make, is that you were acting as a pro se lawyer. That you were you because you're asking, uh, and I only say this because I'm planning on putting together a CLE because of that federal criminal case that you're talking about, is that if if you were asking targeted legal questions and you have not hired a lawyer, you're free to go pro se and file your lawsuit. That's your own work product. And you can say, hey, judge, I haven't decided to hire a lawyer, but I was assessing the legal basis, and now I can do that as a pro se lawyer. You like this argument? It's work product. Pew, pew, pew, pew.

Karen Koehler 7:19

Oh, I hope that that goes, but I doubt it.

Mo Hamoudi 7:25

I like the maples.

Karen Koehler 7:27

I think that that's just wishful thinking.

Mike Todd 7:29

What do you think? That's a great argument. That'd be awesome if it was.

Karen Koehler 7:32

It's wishful thinking. But yeah, the Google, the Google thing, the thing about the Google, the Google, is really we should be just calling it.

Mike Todd 7:45

Well, yeah, it's it's AI more than anything else.

Mo Hamoudi 7:47

Yeah. Yeah.

Karen Koehler 7:49

It does cause people to second guess what their lawyers are doing.

Mike Todd 7:52

Well, yes, it does for sure.

Online research Versus Trusting the Professionals

Karen Koehler 7:54

And so maybe that's a good thing if you have a lawyer that's not doing very good stuff. Uh, but it can also just create a lot of anxiety. Uh so I'm not here to say you should never use it, because like you said, everyone uses it. I use it for a whole bunch of stuff now.

Mike Todd 8:11

Here's what here's what I'll say. Here's what I'll say about it. When I when I went in for my heart surgery, yeah, I made a conscious choice not to go look, which I I had had that for 10 years before I went in for surgery. So I I mean I had it my whole life, but I didn't knew that it was a problem for 10 years. And during that time, I had looked stuff up because I was trying to figure out what kind of surgery they were gonna give me and all that kind of stuff. And once it came time for me to get the surgery, I ended up getting one that I had never really done that much research on because I didn't think it was something that I could do. And it was at that point that I went, okay, I'm gonna stop. I just went, the doctors know what they're doing. I don't need to try to figure any of that stuff out on my own. I need to trust that they know what they're doing. And every time we get calls like that here, that's what I I mean, that's what I always felt like when I would hear them is you need to just go, they're the experts. That's a good framing, Mike. And I mean, don't get me wrong. You guys make wrong choices sometimes. Doctors make right experts all over make mistakes. So people do need to be aware of what's going on and pay attention and make choices. But there's a difference to when you're first coming in and and being evaluated. You shouldn't, I don't think you should come in saying, Oh, I know everything. And we've had clients that were like I I remember a client that we had, I can't remember his name, but like he would have insane amounts of notes at all times. He had his laptop with him, he'd constantly be tapping, he'd be arguing with the attorneys back and forth all the time. And I was like, that you're wasting their time at that point. Yeah, like they're making your jobs that much harder when they do that. So I think people should really go in with it, like I said, a measure of of intelligence with it, but sort of give yourself up to letting them do their job for a little while.

Mo Hamoudi 10:15

You know, what you just described, but it's like this I connect to that, like you want to know because you're doing something. Oh, of course. You want to feel like you're in control. Like that's like a that's a really personal experience. Oh, yeah. Right? And then like giving that up to somebody else and saying, I want to give this thing, I'm I think I have control over, I want to have control over Karen. Here you go. It's yours.

Karen Koehler 10:38

Yeah, I I can't do that exercise. I need to be in control, and I would be a Google nightmare because I am going to Google and Jat GPT everything to death. I am gonna know everything. I'm just you know talking out of one side of my mouth and then the other side because I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna go.

Mike Todd 10:53

I was about to say, because you don't really know everything when you do that.

Karen Koehler 10:56

No, but you know, you know a range. You get some more idea.

Mike Todd 11:01

But I remember when I was a kid, this friend of my dad's had done some electrical work at his house, and uh and I asked him, How do you know how to do that? Don't you have to be an electrician? He said, Oh no, I know enough to be dangerous.

Karen Koehler 11:16

Well, yeah.

Mike Todd 11:16

That's what I feel about anybody who says, I looked it up and now I know what I'm talking about.

Karen Koehler 11:21

Yeah, I look it up, but I don't really know. I won't say that I know what I'm talking about, but I kind of want to be on guard. Like I want to be aware of what the possibilities are. I want to have some kind of sense of where this could go so that I can deal with it better.

Mike Todd 11:35

So I'm guilty of that all the time too. I do that's how I do it. When it was a big thing, I had to give it up.

Karen Koehler 11:40

Yeah.

Mike Todd 11:42

I do this all the time.

Karen Koehler 11:44

I am always like, oh my god. Expect our clients not to, right? Like we shouldn't do this.

Mo Hamoudi 11:49

It's a little hypocritical, I agree. Yeah, I mean, this is why I go, like, okay, go ahead.

Karen Koehler 11:53

Don't do as I say, dude.

Mo Hamoudi 11:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I mean if they if they subpoena my Chat GPT thing, I'd be like, toast. Yeah, it's terrible.

Karen Koehler 12:03

People are like, do you know, they can they can do that? And if the answer is yes. Everything has a footprint electronically. Oh, yeah. Everything has a footprint. Well, you know. Trials have been overturned because the juror used Google.

Mo Hamoudi 12:21

Oh.

Karen Koehler 12:23

I mean, so we have to learn to restrain ourselves certain at certain times.

Mike Todd 12:29

I mean, the instruction was a very good thing. That was one of the first things that they told us when I was at jury.

AI Assistants Make Curiosity A Habit

Karen Koehler 12:34

We are so addicted to the internet, to the phones, to our knowledge, to getting those questions answered, to, you know, and now with AI. Okay. I I call Archie. I when I write to Archie, it's like, dear Archie, how are you? I have a question for you. When I write to co-pilot, I just did this last week. I was like, hey, co-pilot, is there another name that you want to be called other than by copilot? And he's like, well, I can be called pilot or I can be called co if that makes you feel better, but I really don't care. And I thought, okay, then copilot is. And so what they're doing though with the AI models, right, is they're training you to have basically this um this friend, this person that's guidance counselor, this this person that your yeah, your personal assistant. So they're training this into you, and it's becoming it once it becomes habitual, then you then it's hard to undo that habit.

Mike Todd 13:32

Your grandchildren are gonna be like that's gonna be the way that they are.

Karen Koehler 13:37

Yes. So I mean, unless AI failed. A lot of what we're talking about, you know, in the hot tub, like that's just the way that it is.

Mike Todd 13:46

That's gonna be the way it is now. Yeah.

Karen Koehler 13:48

Yeah.

Mike Todd 13:48

Well, that's the thing too, Jeff. AI is gonna be take like you said, AI taking over the paralegals, AI is gonna take over the physician's assistants and you know, the nurse practitioners. That's gonna become a computer that they talk to.

Karen Koehler 14:03

Well, that's it's I'm fine with it as long as it's correct.

Mike Todd 14:08

Exactly.

Karen Koehler 14:09

I'm not fine with it if it's not correct.

Mike Todd 14:11

I mean, that's what they've been uh do you watch the show The Pit? No, but my daughter's told me I have to, and it it's next to they have uh they have this season there's AI that they're using to chart, and multiple times now they've had problems with it.

Karen Koehler 14:25

Well, I mean, but they chart horribly anyway.

Mike Todd 14:28

Yeah, but this is getting the wrong diagnosis or you know, really bad stuff.

Karen Koehler 14:34

Yeah, really, there's some little errors there.

Mike Todd 14:36

I mean, it's it's it runs a gamut. Some of them are just they have to go back in and correct their charts for spelling mistakes or you know, certain things getting missed, but you know, it gets worse, obviously. And and uh I I think it's it's still fiction, but I can't I can imagine that's gonna happen.

Karen Koehler 14:56

Well, I love I love the internet and Google and all of that so much I can't I do is keep using it more and more and more. That's how it affects me um in in my business. So I can't I can be a hypocrite and tell clients don't do it. What we do is we just tell them, look, if you do it, fine, but just know they can come and look at it too if they ask for it for whatever. And in fact, they have done that with one of our clients who has a catastrophically injured family member and they've asked them to give all of their Google of that injury now. Here's the here's the interesting part if your child or your spouse was catastrophically injured and you were their caregiver, would you do everything in your possibility to learn every single thing that there possibly could ever be in the Hawaii world?

Mike Todd 15:49

Yes, that's the way I do it.

Karen Koehler 15:51

Anyone would, right? That had the So if you've done that, why would the okay, let's say the defense says we need you to give that information to us, okay? What what are they gonna do with it?

Mike Todd 16:05

Well, I guess what I would say to that is when you're looking at searches, people I mean, at least for me, often I'll do lots of different searches on the same thing.

Karen Koehler 16:16

So it's like if you're looking for what is this condition? What are the repercussions? What is the treatment? What is the new treatment? Exactly.

Mike Todd 16:25

You're you're going all over, you're going all over, you're trying different questions.

Karen Koehler 16:34

Okay, what is a defense gonna get out of that? Well, they're not gonna get anything.

Mike Todd 16:40

They're not gonna get anything, but they may get something, that's the thing.

Karen Koehler 16:43

They're not. They're going to what they're gonna get is that worried parent or worried spouse's um random searches trying to find answers. And what is the purpose of that? There is none other than harassment.

Mike Todd 16:57

Well, that's what we've covered that before. And that's where I'm going, is that they're gonna use that stuff to harass them.

Karen Koehler 17:02

There's no other reason. Like how what what is the relevance? What what are you gonna put? Does a person not have that condition?

Mike Todd 17:09

If we add a defense attorney, they might be able to give us an answer to that.

Karen Koehler 17:11

Does the person does the person not have that condition? So therefore you're just trying to like pretend that they have that condition? That's why you're looking it up. I mean, there's no reason to get that information. It's it's really real ridiculous and insulting.

Mike Todd 17:26

But it's not just, I mean, they're getting all their searches, or do they just get that stuff that are pulls?

Karen Koehler 17:30

That's all they want. They just want that. No, they can't get all your searches because that is not allowed. It's gotta be either relevant or may lead to the admission of relevant evidence. How would that lead to the relevant of relevant evidence?

Mike Todd 17:42

None of it would. But once again, they're gonna find I I think that they could find something to mess with your client during a deposition.

Karen Koehler 17:52

You found one study where one out of a hundred thousand people that have this uh condition are actually still alive.

Mike Todd 18:00

That's what I'm talking about. So they get to ask that question in five different ways in the deposition and waste your time and waste your client's talk.

Karen Koehler 18:10

Anyway, Google Google So who how many people use DuckDuckGo versus Google?

Mike Todd 18:17

Oh, I don't know, but I it's not it's DuckDuckGo gets, you know, like up one percent or something like that in comparison. I haven't looked in a long time. Maybe it's more now.

Karen Koehler 18:27

How many people use ChatGPT or something co-pilot or something versus Google?

Mike Todd 18:32

Oh, it's skyrocketed for sure.

Karen Koehler 18:35

Yeah, is it like 50-50?

Mike Todd 18:36

I I don't know, but I bet that it's a lot higher than people would think.

Karen Koehler 18:40

I know, you know how I know it's high is because our website developer, they used to we used to be websites were all like Google.

Mike Todd 18:48

Yeah.

Karen Koehler 18:49

You were all looking at Google. Oh, not anymore. Now you're gonna now it's very much you gotta be discoverable by Chat GPT.

Deposing AI And The Smart Home Witness

Mike Todd 18:57

Yeah, so that's it. I mean, that's you know, that's what people are using for the well uh the reason is because it gives you you used to have to do that research on your own with Google, and now AI compiles it all for you into one little thing and and you can get the cliff notes version then.

Karen Koehler 19:12

Okay, are they gonna subpoena our AI personal assistant in the Oh yeah, for sure. And is there is there who's gonna who are they gonna do they have the right to depose that AI? How are they gonna get information out of AI?

Mo Hamoudi 19:26

They gotta ask the question.

Karen Koehler 19:27

Yeah, they're gonna have to depose AI.

Mike Todd 19:29

Yep.

Karen Koehler 19:30

Oh my god.

Mike Todd 19:31

Can you believe it?

Karen Koehler 19:32

I cannot.

Mike Todd 19:33

Well, or they're gonna have or they're gonna have to go back and take a session and replay the session that you did with AI.

Karen Koehler 19:42

I want to rename my AI to a really cool name.

Mike Todd 19:45

So that when it's deposed?

Karen Koehler 19:47

When they when the AI is deposed, they have to call that A. Otherwise the AI will not answer.

Mike Todd 19:52

Mine would be a very offensive name. And if I was going to court. I would like to see the defense attorney have to say that name over and over.

Mo Hamoudi 20:03

They're gonna depose AI. That's you're probably right.

Mike Todd 20:07

Oh my god, that's just I had never thought of that until this now. And it's amazing to think that that could be the case.

Karen Koehler 20:12

Just look at how how else are they gonna ask it questions?

Mike Todd 20:15

They're gonna have to do it that way.

Karen Koehler 20:16

Because it how else they can't just get control of it because it's its own entity.

Mike Todd 20:20

Well, they could get the they can get the logs of of your previous discussion. I I I don't know for sure. I don't know that much about how AO works, but I would guess that the that it's recording your chat or whatever. So if you've got that recording, then you could just get a transcript of it and and read what it said. You wouldn't need to interview it. But you might want to interview it to say to talk about the conversation and what it thought about what it was researching and stuff like that. I mean, you it's we're getting close to where they're an actual intelligence that you're talking to. So were you are you Karen's co-pilot?

Mo Hamoudi 21:00

I am. Did you answer some questions for Karen? I did. Did you answer those questions on March the 3rd, 2026? Oh my god. I did.

Karen Koehler 21:10

My AI will either be either be well, it'll probably be Jacqueline, who is my best friend when I was 12 years old in Malaysia. Jacqueline. Hey Jacqueline. I don't really like the sound of that.

Mo Hamoudi 21:22

Jacqueline, did you do a search for for for for Karen on March the 3rd, 2026?

Karen Koehler 21:27

Yes.

Mo Hamoudi 21:28

Did you make an image for her? I did. And what was the image?

Karen Koehler 21:32

Well, it was of a big middle finger.

Mo Hamoudi 21:38

But I bet you they will do this. Yes. Because you know what? I bet you AI uh robots are gonna be eyewitnesses to events.

Mike Todd 21:51

You don't even need robots. You could just think the AI could just have a camera that it uses somewhere.

Mo Hamoudi 21:55

And they can come in and question.

Karen Koehler 21:57

Oh my goodness.

Mike Todd 21:58

I mean, that's the thing. Like like think about it this way now. You've got an AI at your house that's can with everything that's connected. So you're Door locks, your stove, your refrigerator, your washing machine. All of those things are now controlled by the AI, your ring camera on the outside, all of your security cameras, and the AI is controlling what goes to the cloud and is recorded. It's then going to be able to be deposed as to what happened when you know that person came with a gun and shot somebody in front of the house or whatever.

Google Was Just The Beginning

Karen Koehler 22:29

Hey Jacqueline, can you give me a photograph of that guy without altering his images at all? Can you just give me the photo without without any kind of alterations? I can do that. Do you want to do that? I do. No, you don't. I don't. You want to alter it. I mean, it has a the world is going to be a very interesting place. Well, Google is only the tip of the iceberg. We have now gone way past the hot tub. Thank you for starting our conversation. That was a great conversation. Very good.

Mo Hamoudi 23:00

This was good. Bye. Bye. Bye.