161: Mary Margaret West Lifeway Students "Changes For Girls Ministry In Youth Ministry" #WomenInYM

In episode 161 Zac sits down with Mary Margaret from Lifeway Students to talk about the changing face, direction, and thinking about girls ministry in your youth ministry. For our month long emphasis on #WomenInYM this is an important discussion related to the young women in your church's youth ministry today.

Mary Margaret West serves as the Girls Ministry Specialist for LifeWay, which basically means that teenage girls and the women who lead them are her favorite people on the planet. She served several churches as a Girls Minister, has a master’s degree from New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, and is a former Event Coordinator.

Mary Margaret has a passion to equip girls and women to dive deeply into God’s word and live out their calling. Mary Margaret is married to Jonathan and they love living in Franklin, TN. Connect with her on Twitter or Instagram.

"Women in the church know the needs of teenage girls better than you do."

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

Hey everybody, welcome to episode one 61 of the youth ministry booster podcasts, which just sounds like a number ever escalating and for some of you that have been with us from the beginning, thank you. Thank you for your listenership. Thank you for your encouragement. And for some of us that are joining a fresh today, we have a very special guest, a friend of the podcast, a friend of Chad and I in a lot of things, youth ministry. It's the girl's ministry specialist and helpful a CO leader for so many things related to lifeway students. It's the one, the only Mary Margaret West, uh, also a wonderful host and cohost of a couple different podcasts for lifeway students and for marked which we will link below. You got to check them out. Some great guests, some great insight, and she is always just a delight and a warmth of wisdom and it's just wonderful to chat with her and you're going to love our conversation today. Changing up a little bit, not just an interview of things going on in her life, but because of her unique perspective. We wanted to ask her some questions about the changing face of girls ministry. Uh, Mary Margaret and I are twitter buddies and we got to hang out a couple of times in Nashville, and this is one of our conversation points that we always come back to is that everybody has got girls in their youth ministry and some of us have special titles for those that lead girls ministry or we have special efforts or conferences or curriculums or things for girls in youth ministry, but is that changing a part of this conversation all month long is about women that lead in youth ministry, but what about the young women that are sitting in the chairs of the roads, the pews and the couches in your Youth Ministry today? You're going to love this conversation. Mary Margaret, and she shares some of her wisdom from networking with Youth Ministry leaders all over the country and so I hope you enjoy it today. Again, Michigan links below for the giveaway this month. Other things related to youth ministry booster and a wonderful network of masterminds to get you connected to having more conversations like this about youth ministry, but until the end, here's our interview with Mary Margaret. Hey everybody. We're back for another special interview for our month long emphasis of women in youth ministry and we went straight to the top. We said we've talked to a lot of people that are working the grassroots or the intermediate level. We wanted to go national and so we're talking to our friend Mary Margaret West who is the girls' ministry specialist for lifeway students, which means she has a national level insight for you today about the ever changing culture, direction and strategy of girls ministry. So Mary Margaret has worked in Youth Ministry for several years and she is now a directing and leading at a high level and I can't wait for you to meet her and hear from her. So. Hi Mary Margaret. How are you? Hey, I'm good. How are you? We're so glad to have you on the show today. So we've been doing a lot of interviews, talking to people about their call story. The journeys, the struggles and successes in youth ministry, but we fill out, we want to throw a little bit of a wrench and maybe have a conversation not just about women in youth ministry, but about Youth Ministry for Young Women. And so we thought we've got to talk to Mary Margaret because she's leading a national brand about girls ministry. I know that from personal conversations with you, you feel like this is a really dynamic topic, especially in 2018. So maybe tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are now and then I want all the deets and changing face direction and strategy of girls ministry because all of us I think have a picture for it and I think you're going to blow us away today. So tell us how in the world you wound up being the specialists for Girls Ministry for lifeway students.

Speaker 2: 3:25

Got It. Okay. For me, it started off as a college student. I got home from a summer internship and um, looked at my church and was like, I should probably like maybe I should help out. Like maybe I should step up to the plate volunteer. And so of course I emailed like our junior high pastor and I said, hey, could you use me some way thinking that like I could pass out pizza or check the roll off honestly, and I'm also needed service hours for college. And so in my mind I was like, kill two birds with one stone and this is going to be great. Um, ended up teaching a group of eighth grade girls who prayed for cats for a very long time and we had to learn that like we have to learn to pray for other things and that ladies and senior ladies both I've heard that almost ran me off from student ministry from day one, but, um, you know, just had the opportunity to serve several different churches, experience to call the ministry that junior year of college that just the Lord just really got my attention and changed my plans. And I saw how he had been directing me towards student ministry for a long time. I just couldn't see it. And um, so it was on several different church staffs doing girls ministry. I had all the weird title, student ministry, Associate Girls, ministry, associate girls, ministry director, whatever you want to call it. I was kind of the pinpoint person for girls and for business cards. Lots of variations. I just called it what made most sense to me, you know, two people that ended up feeling called to go to seminary. I went to New Orleans, loved that. Um, New Orleans Baptist theological seminary. I had a great experience studying student ministry there. Um, and when I graduated in 2012 with my masters, I thought, okay Lord is going to open up a door for me to go straight back into student ministry. And he didn't. Um, he actually opened the door out, lifeway in Nashville for me to be an event coordinator on our women's ministry team, which in my mind was like, oh gosh, that's what my mom does. Like, oh no, this is, I don't know anything about women's ministry. Like I'm the least qualified, but it's where you. He directed my steps. And so I said yes and really thought I'd be at Lacma for about a hot second before I went back to a church because I was like, that's what I want to do with my life and I'm in the Lord really had me in a place where I learned a ton because I was serving. My job was to coordinate all of our leadership training events we did for women. And so I spent the last five years learning from listening to like getting to know and just ask questions of women in leadership, um, you know, everywhere from church leadership to corporate leadership and um, learned a ton but still was sorta going, Lord, what is it you like, how is this all coming together? And um, about a year and a half ago, I'm Ben true blood who is director of student life. My students and my boss pulled me into a meeting and just said, can I pick brain about girls ministry? And I was like, yes, absolutely. This is still very much my heart. And then along the way, I think the Lord still gay kept me connected to girls ministry by bringing me girls ministers to mentor and to disciple and like that has been just this ongoing thing that I honestly never pursued, but that they would just kind of say, Hey, I know you used to do this. Like can I come pick your brain? Like, can we spend time together? Can we get on the phone? And I was like, yes, because that just so resonated with my heart and so I get in this meeting with Ben and he's like actually want to talk to you about a job and to see if he'd consider, you know, taking this new position that we've created, you know, nobody's been in a role like this in a really long time at lifeway and you know, but we want somebody who can help connect and network and, and find out what the, what the needs are of women in student ministry, especially when it pertains to how they're ministering to girls. And so that's my job in a nutshell. It's, it's honestly a total blast because I get to hop on the phone or video calls or have lunch with girls, ministry leaders, women in student ministry all the time I'm here, what the Lord's doing in their lives and try to best match them with things that meet their needs or people that, that they need to know. And so, um, it's, it's a total blast and just to get to help strategize and listen to what God's doing in student ministry on a more global, national level, um, is a huge blessing it to serve the church that way. So I love it.

Speaker 1: 7:14

Love it. Well, let me tell us a little bit more than I think you're, you're, you're naming some of the tensions there. Is that the business card problem, like what do we call those that specialize in administering to girls, team ladies, young women in churches, but also in the ways in which that like is a bigger piece of student ministry. And so I think maybe you still kind of jump into the conversation, like where, where do you see the landscape of like girls ministry now? And I think maybe that's a little bit of a history lesson for us, give us that, but like get us into the conversation of like where you see girls ministry at. I think for a lot of us, like this is either like the thing that like, you know, we have someone on our staff that does this or we're aware of certain curriculums or events or opportunities, but like nested inside of student ministry, there seems to be this subcategory of, of girls and ministry. And so tell us kind of what you kind of see as the thing now and maybe like some of the problems that it has currently.

Speaker 2: 8:11

Yeah. Looking back, you know, I graduated high school, I'm 34 because I feel like this will help give some good context and you know, who loves to just say their age out loud and um, yeah, there we go. But I remember when I graduated high school in 2002, like I hadn't at that point heard of girls ministry. Like I don't think I. and I grew up in a mega church. I'm in Orlando, Florida. Um, and so like I had, my dad's always been in ministry and he was a youth minister for a long time and so, you know, student ministry things were very much something that I had always been exposed to and um, you know, we had girl interns who really, you know, filled the role of what now we see as girls ministry and a lot of ways, but I had never seen it in an official capacity until I started serving at a church that my junior year of college. And um, we had a girl on staff and that was her job. She was in seminary at the time, but more than an intern, you know, she was probably 28, 30 hours a week and really planned everything strategically for girls, you know. And so it was sort of, it's, it was very much under the umbrella of student ministry, you know, following the values, the mission, like where our church was headed, where our student ministry was headed. Um, you know, and so it didn't, it wasn't this isolated thing that sits to the side. I think one of the dangers that happens a lot of times is when girls ministry sits to the side of the student ministry or the side of the church where it feels like it's its own rogue thing over here as student pastors, like their eyebrows get raised really fast sometimes because I think that's what they're, there's a lot of fear in that I'm going like I don't, I don't want something rogue over here. Like I'm looking for something that helps drive my ministry the same direction. I feel like the Lord's already given me direction to head it. And um, and so I think that's one thing that I see as a pain point. A lot of the other barriers. And honestly I had a meeting with a girl at work a few months ago and we just took on a whiteboard just listed what are barriers that girls ministry, like what are barriers for student pastors? What are barriers for volunteer leaders? Like what does it look like from several different sides of the coin? And it was everything from, you know, like you start talking, you say girls ministry. And most student pastors think budget time person, you know, they think all of the logistics of like, oh, that sounds like a program. It sounds like person and money and stuff. And like we don't have that. And so no thanks. And um, and so that happens sometimes. But then I think, you know, for, for women on the other side of the coin who were going, I love teenage girls. You know, maybe I've been a small group leader, Sunday school teacher for a long time. I've been in this capacity, I feel like the Lord has called me to serve in some way this direction. They're sitting there going, but I don't know where to start and I don't know who to ask and I don't know how to cast vision. I don't know how to help connect these dots across the board. And so it's this very slightly polarizing conversation that like if everybody would just sit down and talk, we could probably smooth that out really fast. And a lot of, um, you know. So I think that that is, it's like these barriers kind of get thrown up and then we just pause or that I think it's the problem where girls ministry is this thing like we've hired somebody to do girls ministry, but like they're responsible for now what could be up to hundreds of girls all bothers, like it's seen as like, oh we're the hand off of like, well anybody that is a girl is now your property. Now your problem years. Our response like that girl is responsible for any tiers that happen on a Sunday morning, you know, they are um, they just kind of the point person for everything. And, and even like you and I have talked like there are churches who have, you know, a student pastor, a high school pastor, junior high or high school minister, junior high ministry and a girl's minister who then somehow in the mix of this, of that. Yes. And it gets really confusing. It gets really messy somewhere in there. And so a lot of what I'm trying to help in the conversation about girls ministry is to change the way we talk about it and saying, what are you doing to intentionally minister to the needs of girls?

Speaker 1: 12:04

Okay, I'll pull back the curtain a little bit because you named the barriers and I think for a lot of people that were listening, especially a lot of the guy youth ministers when they hear a budget time point person program, like they already feel like all of those things are so constrained that like having like any kind of specialization and he kind of, you know, girls focused or any kind of like focus group and intentional ministry beyond what they're already doing. We're already all at capacity. So if it's not those things then give us maybe some insight of like what are some of the things that it could be that would not be so programmatic. I think for some people it's all about the like, okay, so what program do I need to add? So getting interested to that kind of like shifting kind of like thinking

Speaker 2: 12:44

and going back to when you look at student ministry, any talk about just these core things, that evangelism, discipleship, you know, that are just kind of these very baseline things. It's helping equip women to be ones who can have those kind of conversations with girls. Um, and you know, and in some, in some scenarios it is going to, you know, me and that a female is on staff full time. She's paid. That's her job to be the one who leads out in some of that training and equipping. But in most churches it's the pastor's job to do that. And some of that I think is going, who is one who are one of these strong leaders, one of these strong women who can kind of be a point person for me because let's just be honest, where we are socially, culturally today, there are a lot of conversations that teenage girls needs the need to have with somebody who was a spiritual authority over them. That really needs to be happening with women. It needs to be happening within the context of other women for safety reasons, for responsibility, reasons, for accountability reasons, things like that. They're just better suited. And you know, any woman can look at a teenage girl and say, I've been a 13 year old girl. Like I felt, I felt some of these feelings like what you're saying is valid. I get it. And you know, and no male student pastor can look at a 13 year old girl and go, oh, I remember what it was like to feel that way, you know? And so I have empathy for you to get down in the weeds and even similar what these girls will, you know, we'll share and talk about like, I can't relate to directly, but I can just say girl, like you are not alone. Like I, you know, I remember what it felt like to feel these types of things or whatever. And um, and so I think to kind of reign that back in, it's more holistically about how can we help women feel equipped to minister to girls? How can we help them to feel like they have some responsibilities? And accountability in that, but also some training, you know, to go, how are we training and equipping other women and looking at the rest of our church body, you know, when you look at a passage like titus two that commands women to teach younger women, you know, are the women in your church stepping up to the plate to do that, you know, do they feel there's a place for them? Do they feel like there is a role for them? Because for some of them they're going, I wouldn't know what to do to talk to a teenage girl, but the Lord really is prompting something in them, but they, you know, they don't know how to even approach the subject. So open the doors wide just to say, hey, we want women to come serve in student ministry and um, and your necessary to, to us being a healthy part of the body of Christ over here.

Speaker 1: 15:13

It's good. Okay. So God guide us in that conversation of, um, it's not just the program, it's not just a matter of budget constraints or having to hire a person to annex this ministry to guide us. Guide us into the ways in which we can, I think there's, one of the things we've, at least I have personally learned this month is, is half of what we're trying to do is just carve out space to make room for. And so, um, in our time together here, like what, what are some ways that administer that feels totally constrained. The CCS, the neat that sees the need. I've got, you know, at least 50 percent if not more of my youth ministry is young women eating there. I'm a guy that has trouble empathizing. I care and I'm compassionate by trouble empathizing or I'm a woman and youth ministry that feels like I, I've tried to care for the whole group. So it's hard to have specialization. How, what are some ways that you and and talking in network and other folks are some right practical first steps to make space for, um, to help kind of bring other folks into an a long for ministering to young women and in the right kinds of ways.

Speaker 2: 16:20

Yeah. I think some of that comes from taking some of the pressure off of what it looks like to serve in student ministry, what it looks like to disciple a teenage girl because I think some of it for an adult leader who goes, you know, maybe somebody who is, um, and I'm, I'm not a mom so I don't have kids to like, this isn't my perspective on the conversation. But even last week at a conference here in Nashville at our edge conference for family ministry leaders, I heard a woman say about like, but I'm a mom and I've got my own kids' soccer games to go to. So how am I supposed to go to the soccer games and the volleyball tournaments and stuff like that for the girls in my ministry. And, and I think especially women tend to think pretty analytically about some things like that, especially as moms and I'm trying to lead their own, um, you know, lead and disciple their own kids at the same time alongside their husband. But taking some of the pressure off of just saying who are, you know, how can you bring girls alongside of you? Yeah. Because when we look at scripture, we look at Jesus, he brought the disciples alongside of him and he just said, come with me, follow me, and I'm going to show you the way to go. Like, I'm going to show you what this looks like. And so, um, you know, beyond, you know, leading a small group on a Sunday morning or Wednesday night, who were the girls that you can say, hey, you know, I don't, I'm not an expert here. I don't have, I don't know all the answers, but like, let's dive into scripture together, whether that's through a Bible study or just walking through the book of the Bible. And even for me as a high school girl, it was my student pastor's wife who came to me and just said, hey, can I, um, would you want, be a part of a discipleship group that I'm putting together? And so we met for an hour before our youth group met on Wednesday nights. And there were probably 12 of us in the group and um, and I remember that very vividly. It was very much a part of my spiritual foundation and that was more like programmatic for, you know, for the sense of like we met every Wednesday night at 6:00 or whatever that was. But then it's like she also, when I got my learner's permit was the first one to show up at my parents' house, my student pastor's wife and just said, come on, let's go to the mall, you're, you're driving. And like, my mom had not let me drive out of the neighborhood yet. And so Shannon let me hop in her minivan. I drove her to the ball and bag and when I got home my mom was like, you did what? And who is this? But she just, it was beyond just the Wednesday night and the Sunday morning. So she was a part of my life and a part of my spiritual health and development. And you know, that was before texting to sound old today. Um, you know, so we didn't text each other but like, you know, but we caught up with each other all the time and so I think to, to look at some of them and say, where are the pieces of your schedule that you can invite a girl alongside of you or a handful of girls and um, and just help them to see that this is a both and it's not separate from your family, not separate from the things that the other areas that in ways that the Lord has called you to work and the lead and all of that. But, but it's the both and of exposing young women to what healthy home life looks like and to, you know, laundry sitting on the couch because it hasn't gotten done yet. And that's okay too. And you know, things like that were so much of my job now is equipping women to do ministry, to grow, you know, to help facilitate ministry to girls that I'm just trying to help them see that it feels really tangible and doable. Because I think for a lot of women, um, you have. Everybody's got those rockstar leaders for the most part that like they will go above and beyond all of the time, you know, but then for the rest of the 80 to 90 percent of your leaders who were kind of going, okay, I'm here on Sundays and I sort of looked at my lesson before I got here, but I don't really know what to do besides hours a week. That's all I've got. That's your waste. And one of them right now. Exactly. By having this conversation and so many of them, they look at it as like, these are the only times that I can cut out of my schedule to purely be about student ministry and if we can help them to see. We're trying to get you involved top to bottom where this is just a part of what you do. Like it's just a part of who you are. That like that's where the conversation begins to change and that's where I think real life change happens because relationships are built and trust is established and the conversation is ongoing and not just periodic once every week. So that. I don't know that that totally answers the question, but that's kind of what I'm seeing.

Speaker 1: 20:26

That mentoring approach, which is not a program in any means unless people just really designed to make it one is, is so vital because it invites in the larger church and I think that's part of the changing conversation that really is connected to a lot of the things that we feel so constrained. Budget, time and personnel is because we fail to see the full body of the church as a resource for trying to Mr Young people. Well, what are some things, and I'd love to hear it just no, you can speak freely like for the future, like uh, I think the national conversations about both the treatment of women and the recognition of the capabilities, capacities and personhood of women feels like it's changed. Not that it has changed, but it feels that the conversation has changed notably in the last couple of years. What are some things that youth ministers today should be thoughtful of for ministering to young women for today and tomorrow?

Speaker 2: 21:30

Cool. That's a big question. I think from our perspective, we've just got to realize that, and I, and I was even having a conversation with a friend, um, within the last few days just about kind of the changing nature of the church and what it looks like and are our responsibilities to go back to scripture on a daily moment by moment basis to go, Lord, does this line up with who you are? Does this line up with the character of who we see you in your word with what it has to say? So that we had a really firm foundation to stand on or have somewhere in this we have, you know, have we become like pharisees and have made up a bunch of rules and regulations about things that aren't necessarily what it is that you've asked of us. And so to take that pause and, and some of the things that we feel very strongly about or because there's convictional from scripture and we need to stand on those things. And then there are other parts of the conversation that I think we have to hold a little bit more loosely with our hands open. And just say, Lord, would you guide and direct my steps and would you remind me of where I'm coming from, what you've brought me from? And then also the tr, like remind me of where I am in a church that I serve and how I can be the best steward of, of where we are from a theological standpoint, from a doctrinal standpoint so that we're not losing part of ourselves in frustration in the, in the larger conversation because we're frustrated with where we are, what's going on. And I think that that all is like the big language just to say we have got to do our due diligence on a daily basis with the Lord of, of loving him spending time with him, pointing students that direction and especially when it comes to administrative girls and women, you know, to, to these women leaders that are in your ministry. Because that's, that's a big part of equipping the saints as to, to invest in your leaders. Um, so that they can best invest in students. Because if you're just asking people to come hold the wall up for an hour on Sundays or Wednesdays, like that only lasts so long and if it's not fruitful in the long run. So really to go back to your question, I think it's okay from a big perspective, it is just taking a hot second sometimes just to take a deep breath and go, okay Lord, we're like, what is it you want to do? And then through our ministry here at the church and to make sure that all of that you're onboard with your pastors on board with where you're headed, what you're doing that are recruiting adult leaders who are headed in the same direction where you are and not just like a warm body in a room who are over 18 and um, but to also look at where, where our girls specifically and what are their needs and you know, for a male student pastors, you know, a lot of those things are going. It's relying on women in your church to help explain those things, to help shed some light. And then for female student pastors, it's for you going, you know, my job is the student ministry holistically. And so who are some women that I can ask to come alongside of me to help support this part of ministry. And um, it's, it's tough. And I, I think the thing that I keep being reminded of over the last few months, I've been writing a lot on discipleship and I was reminded in the book of Philippians earlier this year and I saw it earlier this fall. I saw a verse that just popped off the page one day because like, and it was like, I've read this passage attendance out of Philippians chapter three. And I'm like, I know I've read this before, but it just didn't stand out to me like it did. I'm just back, I think it was back in August. Um, but in Philippians three verse 17, it says, brothers join in imitating me and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. And, um, and Paul is saying, let, let my life be one that's imitative will. So that you can also imitate me. And the others can imitate you and you know that at the end of the day we're responsible like between us and the Lord, like we've got to be responsible and accountable to him and where he has us as we lead students so that our lives are worth imitating and then what we're asking students to follow is worthy of, of Jesus Christ and who he is. And I heard Brent Crow from student leadership university speak this weekend and he hit on that like, and this has been something I've been like just hammering in on, on my own. And um, and he really just hit on that point this weekend. I'm going, we have got to live lives that are inevitable so that others can imitate us. And that's a high calling. And so I don't know that I exactly answered your question, but that's, that's kind of where I see from our end. And it's hard because I'm looking from a really big perspective. Sometimes it's hard to drill it down.

Speaker 1: 25:50

So. So let's do that. Let's bring it down. So I think, I think what you're saying in the big picture, 100 percent correct, and I think the encouragement that I'm receiving from this is most notably that this is not when we're programed to develop this is one more way of thinking about caring for the young women that are in your ministry already and who are you putting in their life apart from you, which is, which is a strategy that every youth pastor should have in their philosophy, is that if you are their only connection point to faith, it's far to finished strand. The thing maybe to drill down from, and I think this is like the worthy imitable thing. If you could address a group of youth ministers, um, most notably for this month, emphasis a group of male youth pastors, uh, of, of young and middle aged and older men that maybe are, are soft enough and tender enough to hear that they haven't been imitated bubble and all the ways or they haven't been listening closely enough to, in which ways that they need to be more imitative, bowl or worthy of imitation in what is one is one specific that you would just hope to plant a seed or to bend their ear about moving kind of forward from, from this conversation. Like what? What's one area where, uh, and you name it, name it for, for, for a guy like me, where am I missing it? What? What's a blind spot? What's the thing that like, I don't quite have figured out that I need to be a little more receptive and listening to figure out.

Speaker 2: 27:11

I would say that the women in your church now, the teenagers, they probably know the needs of teenage girls better than you do. And, and that's, that can be like a hard pill to swallow. But the, the women who are serving in your church, who loved the Lord and the Moms who were there just like I said in a big picture earlier a day, they have been teenage girls before and you haven't. And so to take that perspective of going, there's something I can learn from the women in my church and what they have to say is valuable because I've never experienced the things that these teenage girls are walking through. And um, to be able to be again, you know, kind of hands up and with your ministry to say like, I'm not going to worry about a power struggle here, a control thing here. But how can I learn from the women in my church? And, and even it's interesting. Um, I have conversations with our women's ministry specialist at Lifeway Kelly King all the time about ways that we can bridge the gap between Girls Ministry, Women's ministry. And so the girls, by the time they've graduated highschool, see that there is a place for them in the church beyond youth group. And um, how we can. I think the women in your church are very well equipped to tell you what it felt like to be a high school girl graduating from high school and then going, where is my place in the church now? What does this look like for me? And so if you can lean into those women and their expertise and now like every student ministry, there are probably a couple of the Iroquois going, okay, thanks, but no thanks. But like, but there are probably some really solid, strong women that really have some valuable things and I think you will gain so much credibility that you probably already have, but gain even more if you will. Take the time to listen to the women who are in your church and to help know the needs to best minister until use them as a resource for you to know how to minister to the girls in your church because most likely they are going to be your best experts and have a lot to offer and can really help you. Help these students in a really practical, helpful way. And so if you will let some other women into your ministry and allow them to speak truth into the lives of these girls, I believe you'll see your ministry grow and thrive and, um, and they really have a lot to bring to the table and that's, that's a huge part of my job is helping them network and connect with each other to find best practices and ways to do things. And so if I can ever be a resource to any of you guys, feel free to reach out because I don't want to, to help continue this conversation going forward. And so anyways, that I can learn and grow and help help other women be able to be more effective in the call that God's placed in their lives. I want to know and hear about it. So, um, you know, thanks again, Zach, for just me be a part of that ongoing

Speaker 1: 29:42

conversation today. Mary Margaret, thank you for your wisdom. Insight and friendship. Absolutely. Alright, there you go. That's our interview with Mary Margaret West from lifeway students, the specialists for girls ministry, but true friend of the podcast and the things we got going at booster and especially in this month of Hashtag women in Yam. Mary Margaret, and thank you for your insight and your wisdom on the show today, and if you would like to connect with her, you could check the show notes below or check her out on twitter, instagram, where she likes to post things or her excellent podcast as well, which we linked in the show notes below. Thanks again everybody for checking it out today. A got just a few more left. We got some this week and next week you're not going to want to miss it. As we feature women celebrating and encouraging them in youth ministry all month long.