In episode 167 Kristen and Zac wrap up for our month long celebration of Women In Youth Ministry. You will be blessed by this encouraging and challenging word!
Again big congrats to our giveaway winner Rachel! She is now the proud new recipient of a PopSugar box for a year and our newest Youth Ministry Booster network member.
Key Takeaway: “Leadership is not gender specific”
Resources Mentioned:
Ruth Haley Barton: Sacred Rhythms
Ruth Haley Barton: Strengthen The Soul Of Your Leadership
In episode 167 Kristen and Zac wrap up for our month long celebration of Women In Youth Ministry. You will be blessed by this encouraging and challenging word!
Again big congrats to our giveaway winner Rachel! She is now the proud new recipient of a PopSugar box for a year and our newest Youth Ministry Booster network member.
Key Takeaway: “Leadership is not gender specific”
Resources Mentioned:
Ruth Haley Barton: Sacred Rhythms
Ruth Haley Barton: Strengthen The Soul Of Your Leadership
Everybody, welcome to episode 67 of the youth ministry booster podcast. This is the one where we talked with kristen lascola about our last month, emphasis of women in Youth Ministry and get her insight, reflections and some conferencing ideas and insights that she dropped at her latest venture. It's super great. You're going to enjoy it, but before we get to that, we had a contest and we want to announce the winner. And so ladies and gentlemen, for those that enter the women and Youth Ministry giveaway, I want you to meet the random lucky and a wonderful winter that we had the pleasure of calling. This is Rachel Galore. New.
Speaker 2:My name is Rachel Gordon and I'm the youth pastor at first Church of God in Greenville, Tennessee. And I served there for about two years. Before that I was a youth pastor at kettering church in kettering. Ohio hours knew that since I was in high school that God was calling me to ministry and I just really wasn't sure where I met my husband on. He was a ministry major in college as well. And so, um, we got married and I'm like, oh, especially pastor's wife is exactly what I'm supposed to do. Um, but then we started serving with an outreach ministry at our church where a mother had gotten saved at a block party and come to know Christ. And so she started bringing kids and their kids started bringing their friends and it very quickly snowballed from about five kids on a Wednesday night to eight within like three months. And I just fell in love with these children, with these, anywhere from like fifth grade, all that to 18 year olds that we were ministering to every week. And I felt God thing, this is what I made you to do. Now just go ahead and do. It. Doesn't matter if you're the woman, it doesn't matter if you are not supposed to be in youth ministry, this is what I want you to do. And so, you know, after coming through some personal struggles and trying to realize what God was telling you, I had to do, when I couldn't really run from that, that role anymore, I just was like, okay, I'll do it. And that's Kinda how I got started in youth ministry, which is by helping out on a Wednesday night outreach program. Well, I mean when I was in high school and everything, like I didn't know women pastors at all ever. And so coming to the point where like I actually am a pastor and him ordain and even though our, our movement recognizes women in ministry, I didn't know any, so it was a very scary thing to do. And you know, you fall in love with those kids.
Speaker 1:Thanks again to Rachel, our big winner for her year of you, the energy boost your membership and a year subscription to pop sugar, her favorite subscription box. So much fun. Thanks to everybody who participated in the giveaway. It was so much fun to host that over the month of October, but it's November. And so we're looking forward and we're super excited. We're going to be a national youth workers convention in St Louis and we'd love to hear you if you're going to be there too. We're going to be hanging out at the booth, hanging out in seminars with our friends, Carl and will. And having a big old party Saturday night. So if your youth ministry booster member, you already know all about it. If you're not getting the know by checking out youth at[inaudible] dot com to learn how you can become a member of an amazing network of care for youth ministers. All right, time to get to the good stuff. Ladies and gentlemen, uh, Kristin Lascola taking us home, talking about women in youth ministry, Present and future everybody. Welcome back to another special and final installment for our
Speaker 3:October 2018 women and Youth Ministry Extravaganza Celebration Party. She's back. She bagged Kristin backhaul. And so we are so excited to have our very own Chrysalis Gola. Hey Kristen. It's been a full month. We've heard a lot of episodes of podcasts this month and I need you here to bring it home. I need you to bring it home. I'm to get out of the way today. Ladies and gentlemen, I want you to hear from Kristen about all things women in youth ministry as we have celebrated and encouraged them all month long. So Kristin, what do you think? You heard some of the episodes,
Speaker 4:you start saying best month ever best month
Speaker 3:ever love it. October 2018 best month ever.
Speaker 4:Best month ever. Ever killing it ladies. Wow. And I, and I think a lot of the women and Youth Ministry of either mentioned it or you know, they feel this way, but you can start to kind of feel like a novelty and you can start to kind of feel like I'm the only girl in youth ministry. And then I was like, okay, because you're the only one you see consistently. But man, social media opening that up and then this month of podcast just making you realize there are women all over the place killing it and churches supporting the ministry they're doing. And um, I think just starting there and knowing the fact that you're not a novelty and you're not alone. And um, it's kind of validating, you know, for sure to see, um, other women around the world, around the country doing it. When you feel like I'm the only one I see, right?
Speaker 3:Kind of like a tunnel vision of like, I guess it's just me out here in which we talked about on the pre show a little bit like that's, that can be like vocation ending for some folks because if you don't have that, and we've heard this from several women throughout the month, like the quality of the network around you is in many ways the defining characteristics of your longevity. Like every woman that came on the show and shared about youth ministry that's still in it at some point said there was a group of people, a group of peers in youth ministry that held me up, that poured into me, that supported me and carried me through. And so I, I hope more than anything like that, like we know that's true and it was just keep like blasting that message that like you need people in your life that understand your call to youth ministry. So when feel like you don't, someone else can speak for you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the coolest thing now is, you know, when I first started these facebook networks didn't exist. These podcasts there weren't really, you know, and um, I remember reading like group magazine and seeing an article by Brooklyn, Lindsay and my heart like jumped out of my chest and I, W I stopped her. I want to know everything about her. Like where did he live, what kind of church are you at? Like, no, I'll put it up on the court for your right, right. This is who I want to be some someday. And it was actually, I mean I'm saying it like that, but it was actually kind of true and I think the one thing that stuck out for her to speak into what you're saying is the longevity through, um, you know, displayed in her ministry of how long she had done it. And I thought, oh, well, once I'm a mom, my ministry is going to be over. And I saw her raising two girls and doing ministry and being platform. Dan, I'm sticking in there. And I thought, wait, I don't have to quit, you know, after I have kids and she's doing this and making this. Right. Right, right. And it was so exciting to see someone who had gone before me and done that, but you know, she, and she's still in the game and she's still doing incredible things and I follow her and love her. I'm a definitely a fan, but it's cooler now. Fast forward like what I've coming up on my 15th year, once January hits, it's like I have so many women that I can look up to and look into their ministry and you know, partnered with because I'm, we just have more access to, to look at what people are doing now. So, um, but it's definitely impactful to know that we're not alone and we're not novelties. And um, you know, it just has challenged me in my own ministry to like, my number two is a female currently. Um, you know, but that's the first time in a long time that my number two has been a female. I've had a lot of number twos who are guys and I'm looking to hire a guy. If you know anyone around San Diego, I need a guy, um, you know, to balance our staff for sure.
Speaker 3:Say that. And the other way, because when we talked with some other folks this month there, everybody's on the quest for like, we, you like a girl's minister for our team. Like, you know, ladies for our team. I love it. I love it. Like that's even like the other side of the conversation. That's great.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And she is a beast. She's killing it. And I'm looking for guys, you know, I have a few guys that I can platform, but, you know, the thing I think that is super challenged, like I'm being challenged with is um, you know, those people do exist if you're really, I think as a leaders willing to put in the effort sometimes it takes to bring someone from good to great. And from a manager to a leader, you know, and where we can see people as I'm outside of the roles, like for example, I have a volunteer and he wants to do youth ministry. He just got started. So I'm kinda watching him and seeing like, man, is there a night I can have him share his testimony and Kinda like just a, you know, watch intentionally, uh, with, with what, what are his gifts or is there a project that I can give him and see how he does and you know, um, I think I think that can work for, for it's not gender specific. So is there a girl in your ministry who it's like Dang, like what are her gifts? If I were to give her something. But I think as leaders we really have to be willing to put in that, that grooming, that training, that intentionality with them. Because very few people guys or girls come to us readymade, oh, I'm ready to take over youth ministry. I'm ready to speak. I'm ready to lead a game. I'm ready to lead a trip. They're not ready to do that. But who are the people that we can bring alongside us to platform? Because, um, you know, I've always been taught in youth ministry. The best youth ministers are the ones who give their leadership away. Um, and the best leaders are the ones who make more leaders. So I think we can fall into this excuse, well, I just don't have a guy or I just don't have a girl, but it's like, well, are they there? But they just need some intentional training. Um, some intentional life spoken to them, you know, I would have never ever applied to be a youth pastor and see those gifts in myself. It was somebody who identified them and was willing to put in the work with me to see those gifts come to fruition, you know, and now it's our turn to do that for others. For sure.
Speaker 3:Well, and that's, that's the thing that I want to hear more from you because that's, I think where the tide turns is how do we as ministry leaders, men and women serving leading a part time, full time volunteer, whatever. Like how do we look out into the room of young men and women like youth or, or, or, uh, like college age, who are students are students kind of now and then, and then next. They are the church now and they are the ministers in the next years. How do we begin to like call out of them into this[inaudible] we, we, we see this as like a tide that could turn, like at the same way that you talk about Brooklyn has meant, I think now like there's, there's probably hundreds of of women that we could talk about. So instead of just being a few, it's, it's grown. And so how do we continue to see that spin? How do we continue to see that? Especially for our young women. And I think that's one of the things for both this month in both for the future of youth ministry. I mean, so many of our youth ministries are made up of more young women than young men. And so how do we faithfully and truthfully
Speaker 4:call out from their midst young leaders into the ways of apprenticing ministry? Yeah, I think, um, I think we first have to be thinking about it, you know, and always watching, you know, who a new leader who is ready to be a director, youth pastor or whatever is not going to come knocking on your door because if they were, they probably wouldn't be working at a church here. Right? So I think like we need to be watching and paying attention for natural gifting because, um, all the spiritual gifts listed in the Bible are addressed to brothers and sisters by the way. So all of the gifts, whether it's teaching, leading, whatever it might be, um, I think sometimes we see those as masculine gifts, but those are, there's no gender distinction and the gift list as far as I can see. So, um, I think we need to watch with an intentional I for those people that are coming up in our ministries for those gifts. And then it's, I really believe it's our responsibility, um, to seek opportunities on their behalf and seek opportunities for them. I think that's the mark of a good leader and a good coach leader. Um, you know, what, can they see, what can they lead, what curriculum can they design with your, of course you're watching and helping and coaching or you're not just letting them run with it the first time. I've had some youth pastors pushed back on me about that. Well, how do you make sure the content's good and theologically sound and all of that. It said, I said before anybody gets up on that stage, you know exactly what they're going to say, but it takes the intentionality, you know, beforehand, before any correct. A little extra work. It does and it's not super. I mean, it's not rewarding on steps one through 10, but you know, you get to the point where when they can fly a little bit on their own, it's extremely rewarding, but it's that work on the front end. So, you know, where can they, um, you know, share their testimony, where can they write some curriculum for you that you edit and go back with them and talk about. But um, yeah, I think sometimes I've heard youth pastors, you know, especially male youth pastor say, you know, I would, I would have a girl teach, I just don't know of one, you know, but it's, but speaking as a woman in youth ministry, I have seen a lot of guys get opportunities and have gotten coaching and have gotten poured into because somebody saw something in them or was willing to take the time with them, but they started out pretty green and pretty novice and um, they became something because someone believed in them and somebody took the time to mentor them. And I think that's where we as women get stuck a little bit is because we don't have the person who's going to take the time to mentor us to refine our skills, to pour into us, to coach us, to be relationally intentional with us. And so for me, like I said, Brooklyn, like let's be best friends and you don't even know, but you know, I'm totally, you know, woman crushing on you. Um, and I think it's just that much harder. So now that we see so many women coming up in youth ministry, you know, I would really challenge male youth pastors and woman youth pastors. Were we being intentional with? Maybe it's an ex student, maybe it's a college student in your ministry. Maybe it's a graduating senior, but I'm. It's amazing what people can do when they're poured into intentionally and their gifts are refined and they're given opportunities.
Speaker 3:What is what it's called out when it's called out of them. I think that's the thing that's so, so different is that like so much of the content is changing is not that it wasn't already happening. We're finally just giving it the space to be shared like word. Finally just turning the lights on in places that it was already happening. You have students that are already quality leaders. They're leading in school or their assistant managers and managers at their workplace. Why are you relegating them to sitting in chairs waiting for you to teach, talk, lead, whatever. Like, and this is not a plea for student leadership as a plea for intentionally inviting them, especially the ones that profess to be called a youth minister. There's so many women that shared this month that when they were younger, they felt the call and some didn't know who to talk to and some were questioned when they shared the call, be a youth minister that affirms the call of ministry in the lives of your students, all of them where you see it, all of them were, you hear it. And then an affirming the call, invite them to be intentional and inviting them to calling them out to higher levels of leadership because that is usually where it shows up, is when it is asked. And I think for so many of us, we don't ask it. Therefore we don't get. I wonder why.
Speaker 4:Definitely. And I mean, I think we can all look back, not all, but a lot of us can look back on our entrance into ministry through and ask, you know, and um, and I just love, you know, those girls who have felt that call. Um, you know, and I always loved that quote, we can't be what we can't see and so to have your female students and male students see women regularly leading regularly teaching and I'm talking about the whole group and you know, I know people feel differently about that and I love those conversations. Um, you know, I've received pushback on that before, but um, I, I would love for the spiritual development of both male students and our female students to see women in teaching roles, women in pastoral roles, women in leadership roles. And I'm not just talking about like, oh, like you're a women's director. So anytime the girls all get together like you're going to lead that I'm talking about, it's, I think super important spiritually to see women leading the entire group. And there's a couple of books, like if anyone's out there like, Whoa, what are your teaching heresy kind of stuff because I know there's like that group that definitely believes that. But, um, gender roles and the people of God by Atlas. Matthew's completely, if you're a woman listening to this, please read that book because it absolutely changed my life. And she is like a brilliant theologian. She's an older lady in her eighties, but she is, her ministry is unbelievable and I usually, when I speak at conferences about this kind of stuff, I always quote Alice Matthews, um, gender roles and the people of God. And then the other one is how I changed my mind about women in leadership and that's like this compilation book with all these different essays and the one Alice Matthew's rates in that one and it's written by men and women. But the one by Ruth Haley Barton, um, is unbelievable. So she's my new, a woman crush at the moment because she says I'm, I mean it's just a gold mind. It's like four pages in the book that are like Gold Mine. Ruth Haley Barton is, she is the real deal. I love that lady.
Speaker 3:She is. Oh my gosh. She, the way she talks about spiritual journaling makes you feel as if both, it was the thing that you weren't doing that could change your life and yet at the same time, like it is it not just change your life, but give you your lower back. I don't know if there's, there's all link to that book too. It's like the artist of spiritual journaling or something where she just liked the way that she describes it is like when you're feeling dead, this is the thing that will revive you. Like any, like as someone who like really appreciates like the written word and writing. Okay.
Speaker 4:Yeah. She's, she's written a lie. One of the first leadership books I read was by her strengthening the soul of your leadership. I read it like forever ago, but she. Yeah, so those two books, I mean they just give such a good perspective, especially if you're the kind of person who's listening and you're like, sounds really good Christian, but then you're having that theological hang up that's um, I know exactly the versus you're thinking of at the moment. And I feel like I am not like a debate or by sport or anything like that. That's not my deal. So I would just encourage you to read those just to perhaps see, see a different perspective and maybe get rid of'em or see that theological hang up that's been dripped into your mind for awhile to see it in a different light, to kind of free you up to utilize without that little like, am I, you know, because of her, the longest time I couldn't even introduce myself as a pastor and that was my title because I didn't want to offend anyone inside or outside the church. And um, it was because of that cultural and theological drip I had heard my whole life and these books, the ones I mentioned really freed me up to be like, oh my goodness, I was missing so much of the narrative of God's word. The other one is the blue parakeet by Scott McKnight. That one, he just goes through the whole entire Bible. Have you, you know, in order to get the full picture of what God intended for gender, you have to read the Bible as a story, you know, and you have to take into account. Well Debra and hold that. And Mariam and Priscilla and Phoebe, how we have to be able to explain those passages in light of the first timothy and the Galatians five. So he said he makes this great full circle. Have you can't ignore certain parts of scripture while upholding others. And what is God really trying to tell us through genesis to revelation regarding women. And it was just fascinating. And if you're a woman in ministry, it kind of lets you out of the cage, you know, I can finally introduce myself as a pastor because I'm not because it's my right, but it's the responsibility God's put on my life, um, to, to lead. It's your call.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, I think that's the thing that I have really been challenged by is it who are we to question who God calls? And I think that is that that has got a beat no matter what your theological disposition or your particular reading of scripture, like if, if, if someone stands up and says they have been called to serve God and have faith in Jesus and they feel empowered by the spirit to serve alongside in the church for the kingdom, like I would sure hate to be on the wrong side of that and say, no, that's not true. Like, I mean there's just a. don't, don't cut into that because you will be a time when, again, after scripture, like the surprise of who guy uses and then the way in which God changing lives. Christine, give us, give us a little more kind of know that you just got back for some conferences and stuff. Um, what do you, what's, what's it like? Tell us, tell us like, I mean, I feel like, uh, if we can be real, as we're kind of wrapping up this month of stuff, thinking about the future, the conversation of the treatment of women, the equality of women, hearing from women, the stories of women is a national and international conversation. Uh, and youth ministers are serving in places that are alongside many women, volunteers, churches that are composed of many women who are faithful in serving and youth ministries that are populated with lots of young women who are in the middle of these conversations and thinking about where they're going to work and who they're going to work for and how they're gonna manage and do a what are some ways when she would guide that and strengthen that and encourage the ways in which some of the changing a national conversation about the treatment and listening to women affects a lot
Speaker 4:for youth minister. Wow. That was a heavy and good question. And you know, um, I did when I just got done speaking at a women in leadership conference at that our church hosted, um, for the first time. And, you know, every time I get off stage, I never know what my conversations are gonna be like. And uh, one girl came up to me and said, um, man, she said I had a conversation about this stuff last night. And based on what you said, I feel like you were there. And she goes, um, I feel like you totally get where I'm at. And she said, but I have to say, you're pretty brave to say what you said. And I said, I was. I said, I didn't feel brave. I've said, I just am, you know, this is, this is how I read this or not. And she said, well, you don't know in a room like this because there was about 200 women there. She said, you don't know in a room like this where people land on this kind of stuff. And then it reminded me, kind of snapped me back into reality of like for how far we've come, yet still how far we need to go kind of thing. Like, yeah, your women and youth mentor or not just youth ministry is women in Ministry in general conference. Wow. What an awesome thing. But you know, what I really feel is that we have not quite caught up with God's word in this area because I'm in God's word. Leadership is leadership, right? So whether you're a support role, whether you're a leadership role is fine. Both are amazing. You've been called to, which you've been called to, they're just not gender specific. Leadership is not gender specific, neither is support. So, um, this other lady comes up to me and says, Hey, can you remember the mes next time you speak? And I said, what are you talking about? And she said, I've been at my church for 20 years and um, you know, I've been doing ministry, they won't give me a pastor title, but recently one of the newer pastors wants to give me, um, like a, like a roll over family ministry or something. But it would include a pastor title and the elders like will not hear of it, like it is just completely off the table. And she said, so, you know, you getting up there and saying like, Rah Rah, do ministry. She said, but what about the MES that can't? And I said to her, well, you know, in that case, I mean, you're really not gonna. And here's the thing. I think we have to remember and understand, no matter where people fall in this, we're, you're not going to change anyone's mind. So you just need to know for you the validation of your call and if that doesn't line up with the place that you find yourself out, it's probably time to go. You know, you're not going to change anyone's theological standing on stuff. So it's like, okay, well then if you can't soar and if you want to do some different things that your church isn't allowing and you can't find an outlet for it anywhere else, then if you have a theological difference, I mean if it were on anything, not just this, then it was probably time to piece out there. And so, um, you know, I think women fall all over the place. I think there are some that are in churches that are completely affirming and platforming women, you know, we have a church 15 minutes from here that one other main pastors is a woman and then you know, there's the church down the street that they can't do anything above children's ministry or you know, different things like that. So I think women, there is no consensus for them yet, but I, I know that there is, they are still debated over, they're still written in comment cards over there, still left the church over there still. Um, you know, one of our girls just got up to do announcements one morning, a Mc a service and a guy walked up and left and protests and um, but then there's other men who, you know, it just, everyone's all over the place. I don't think we've quite landed anywhere and that's why, um, I truly believe someday or you're going to look back and say, remember when the church was weird about this, remember that, you know, because I think there's so much that God's word speaks on that, um, took us a little while to catch up with, um, and I think this is going to be one of those issues. And when you read God's word through those different lenses, um, you know, and I'm never want to change anyone's mind. My thing is, hey, girls just know, um, that you're valid and that your call is, is legit. So I think when they, when women, when I hear them struggling with, um, a call or a conversation or some pushback, the best I can say is just go to God's word because, you know, my husband always says like, when we have a student struggling with like the evolution creation thing, and my husband always says, a little bit of science might take you away from God. A lot of good science can't do anything but bringing you back to God. And I feel like that's the same for leadership in the church. A little bit of scripture and isolated and taken out of context might make you believe in something. And a whole lot of scripture read intentionally and red, well can't do anything but bring you to the heart of God. And the more I study, and that's what Ruth Haley Barton says, she goes, I just don't speak about it anymore. She goes, I just do it. She said because, and I do it to the best of my ability. Um, because, you know, we, we answer to one authority. And, uh, and I think for women it's hard and it's gonna continue to be hard, but encouraging thing is, um, we, we can look to hundreds of thousands of examples and we've highlighted just, you know, a little percentage of them this month, but we can look to these examples of women out there who are killing it, who are affirmed by their churches, who are supported and who have people around them who's, you know, eternities are changed because they answered God's call. So it's a mixed bag, but you know, we're, we're, we're not, it's not over, but you know, we're doing good stuff.
Speaker 3:Alright Christen, this conversation is not over in many ways. Only beginning. We wanted October to supercharge where we're going next, but in the spirit of a month long initiative into this, give us, give us one last encouraging a thought as we kind of wrap up October 2018 and start thinking about the next month ahead of us.
Speaker 4:I think I would go on on Ruth Haley Barton for everybody. Do what you've been called to do and do it to the best of your ability and let that be that. Do you do what God has called you to do? Um, and remember whose authority or under. And I think that's a supercharged for men and women and the church is whose authority are you under?
Speaker 1:Alright, there you go. That's our thoughtful, insightful wrap up to our women and youth ministry emphasis as we dive into some of our big topics for this winter. Kristin, thank you again for your wisdom, your grace and your insight into this topic. If you like what you heard, how much you contribute your.com. We're going to compile all the episodes together at you've been she your.com/women in Yam so you can listen to them in any form that you want to digest, binge or otherwise big thanks to all the amazing women that contributed, that were interviewed and gave time to share their stories, their learnings and growings and youth ministry. And we'll see you back on the next episode as we talk about honesty in youth ministry.