Youth Ministry Booster
Welcome to the Youth Ministry Booster podcast! The most honest and hilarious podcast in student ministry. Hosted by Zac Workun and Chad Higgins. We are the biggest fans of youth ministry leaders like you!
We are here for you with the humor and the help to engage, entertain, equip, and encourage.
Youth ministry is better together. Learn more @ http://www.youthministrybooster.com
Youth Ministry Booster
168: Who Are The People You Talk Honestly With In Youth Ministry?
This one gets really good really fast!
In episode 168 Karl Romeus, Will Cumby, and Zac Workun talk about what it means to have the honest talks in youth ministry, with ministry peers, mentors, and younger leaders. Who are you honest with? What are the questions you are asking?
Who Are Your Honesty People?
- You can’t share armor with people who don’t know the battle.
- Young Leader Ask 2 Questions
- Have Someone Who Is not just one or two steps ahead of you, but 10 steps ahead of you
- 2 steps is next year's goals...10 steps ahead is who you want to become... This adds so much perspective
- Find yourself in settings where you are not talking much but listening and writing notes.
- Perspective means seeing things beyond problems and solution
- Find someone who is not just going to help you move your ministry forward, find someone who will help you move your life forward.
- Help me be a better human being. Help me be a better follower of Christ.
- Plateauing- is a term I have come to know...
- "Nothing Changes If Nothing Changes"
- “Don’t Mistake Buried For Planted”
- They grow tall because their roots are intertwined.
- One honest voice we must listen to… The Holy Spirit
- There’s nothing to hide with someone you don’t know
- Honesty opens us up to truth, don’t give into the fear of intimidation
- Attention young leader, person you are talking to knows you are using them to level up. So, become a learner.
- The thing you needed to hear might be the thing you didn't know to ask for...
Hey everybody welcome to episode 168 of the youth ministry booster podcast. We are so excited. Maybe you're catching this before during or right after but we're hanging out in St. Louis this final weekend in November 2018 at the Youth Specialties National Youth Workers convention. It's going to be a blast blast and we're really excited because two of our new Cohoes for the podcast are featured there as breakout or seminar leaders teachers deep divers super excited. You're going to love this conversation with the three of us. It's me. It's our good friend Carl chromos. It's our good friend. We'll come be talking about honesty and youth ministry. Buckle up friends. It gets a good fast. And so you're going to love what is shared here in this conversation and then I'll see at the end to fill in any gaps.
Speaker 2:Hey buddy welcome back to another exciting episode of The Wooster podcast with some of our new favorite friends. You've heard them before in interviews and now they're here for a conversation. It's my good buddies Carl and Will talking today. Honestly honestly about the folks that we let in our big question today is Who are the folks that you're honest enough with that you're going to let them in to your life and youth ministry. But before we get into the question Carlinville I want to hear from you guys. National Convention is like less than a month away and you both have breakouts to give you any teasers teasers what's going on. What are you working on.
Speaker 3:That would be assuming that I've written any of it. Okay that is that is some time away. Yeah I actually just got an e-mail this morning like a description of your break out. So I made it up and so I guess that's what I'm talking about. And now I'm locked in. You know I send a copy to myself just so I can have a reference. But. It. Will go on.
Speaker 4:Well I've started working on mine and I'm really excited about it because it's actually going a challenge for me to do some of the things that I'm talking about. But we're really exploring ways to give your message legs. How do we extend the service beyond Sunday or midweek bible study. So I've been doing a lot of research on ways to digitally and physically move it beyond the four walls of your sanctuary.
Speaker 3:So I'm excited about this I know that sounds that sounds good I think I'm going to go to that break out. That sounds amazing. Let's go get the call. Yeah maybe I'll do my break out on that one. Actually I'm telling you that I'm just like that. Yeah you might have gone to Wils. Let me tell you really it was real good. We're going to piggyback on that. Don't you love that in a meeting when someone says I'm going to piggyback on that note. I think every time you hear that. You don't have anything to improve this conversation that you didn't know you're just going to try to add to my idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That or the high horse. If somebody said something really good and. Like you don't. Really know what they said but yet you also don't want to not have a comment so you're like hey man either. So my line that I'm trying to be careful not to say too much of is hey say more which is like a filler statement of like no just keep talking because he I just keep talking or hey would you unpack that as if like like oh yeah Great. It's like they said something great. Just let it hang me. And you don't have to comment on it.
Speaker 3:Warm up packs like hey I don't really get it. I'm going to put it in a way for you to just keep talking so I can pretend I understand.
Speaker 5:It's like only it's like an audio had not right.
Speaker 3:Like a more seriously I was I was in a meeting last week and I kid you not. There were six piggyback comments on my guess. I'm going to piggyback on that. Who would carry six people on their back. That's right.
Speaker 6:You should ask the person at the end like is your back hurt like your Aries meeting everybody. You know I feel like the person that has piggyback wants has like closed it for anybody else.
Speaker 3:That's right. You don't make it out to a meeting law. That's going to add that to my bringing up principles. I'm going to add that to the leadership principles. One piggyback per conversation that's it.
Speaker 5:And we're so excited to have you guys today. This is the conversation I really I mean I think we've talked about it each kind of individually personally just like Who are the people right. So the conversation for us in this episode is that honest conversation or who are the people that you let in because I think anything you guys would share more than the big ideas you've had in your lives.
Speaker 6:So many of the turning points in the growth in your leadership especially as a pastor are the people that you have met or the people that you've let in. And I want to hear from you guys who are some of those people that you have left in because you share honestly enough about yourselves that when they spoke into your ally that you were a little bit different because of it. Is it a kind of both chance meeting with the person. Do you have some ongoing people that you're like always meeting with and you're always kind of like opening the doors are like letting in the window. Who are those folks for you both.
Speaker 3:I like that. Like well unpack that a little bit more. It's the same more same more. Well I've tried to be patient and be like you first. Two things I don't want to say. I have a couple of people that I'm completely transparent with because it's based on who they are in my life. OK.
Speaker 7:There are people who understand the ministry side of what I do so I can be transparent with them regarding ministry things. However those who aren't I can't be like you know.
Speaker 3:So let me tell you what happened in youth group to the youth group right before they went. You are a grown man. Yeah. So the cream thing just didn't work out right. So but I get that from.
Speaker 7:I was looking at the past. The story of David how David when the king tried to give them the armor he was like Yo I cannot carry wear your armor because I have not practiced it and I can't wear them. When Jonathan gave the armor to David Davis like yo I can rock this. And so what it tells me is there are people that you can be transparent with although it's both armer right. It's the same thing. You can't carry or wear or share with people who don't understand where you're walking. So I have in ministry another gentleman that's in youth ministry just as I am he has a youth group. He's doing the same thing and I can say hey man my struggle is I know I've got to get these things accomplished. But I also need to. Be. A father.
Speaker 3:And a husband and heal. And he sometimes will be the one to take me on the shoulder like go go home.
Speaker 4:You know be OK.
Speaker 5:And he's allowed to say that or I like you guys are in the same spot in life that if he says that to you and he's here it is like Nah forget it because one of his things that he told me that this is an amazing quote he said while you're saying. Somebody else is saying here kitty kitty.
Speaker 3:And he's like So you know with your wife. He's like you can't you've got to be that one that's like. All right. Listen I'm here and push her away. And then when you go to find her you know. She's missing. See like this is one for me. Sincerely like. I really really suck at this. Oh good. No it's not good good man. Like I would tell you like. I'm good at it. In a professional in the in the professional. And in terms of ministry and probably even terms of. Leadership development like I've had guys that I think about a guy Dave who this guy is just brilliant like worked worked for Jack Welch should G.E. and was a brilliant guy and so I was meeting with Dave you know twice a month and I'd show up to that time with him. Which I always encourage for any young leader. I would show up that time with him with two questions. And it's like Hey Dave I got these two questions that I'm wrestling with. Sometimes it be ministry wise. Sometimes they be life stuff. But that would be our time we wouldn't go to a Greek restaurant. And by the time both of us had done it you know salad that was that was our meeting was over because he was a really busy dude. But. It allowed me a space to talk to someone honestly who was not just one step or two steps ahead of me. I think it's critical to have someone who is like. Ten steps ahead. You like having that person in having that person in your life is huge. Because I think when you look at somebody who's just a couple steps ahead. You know you in it was just a couple steps and it's like OK that's the person I want to be like next year. Yeah but when you're looking at someone who's 25 30 years old then you you're like Are this why I want to be you know in 25 in 25 years. And that adds so much perspective. To what you're asking them to what you're how you're engaging. I would find myself most often. One of the few times in my life. The time where I'm not talking. I'm just listening. And to me that's that's a perfect voice to have in your life someone who to you get in that presence and you're not talking much because it's like OK I really really got to dial in and listen. But when it comes to my. Like the day to day stuff I got some dudes. But. I think a lot of it might be based on personality type. So I'm like I'm a high introvert. You know. So like I would say pretty honestly like my wife's like. The closest person to me in the world. But then when I got to talking about my wife who I go to you know and I'd say probably in the last five years I've been working on developing a lot of who are who are those who those voices that I allow in. To really kind of.
Speaker 5:Dig into some deeper stuff with me and what I hear you say and there Carl that's really powerful is that like the person that's one or two steps ahead that you'd like admire because it's like man like like how did you grow your ministry or man. Seems like things are really rocking for you. Are you seemingly have it all together.
Speaker 6:Might be great. Melech solve a problem right. Kind of like Coach you to a solution. And that person that's like 10 steps ahead is like that's like visionary right. And that's like having a plan of the church having a vision like I even know you get where you are. I just know I want to be who you are. And that's yeah you don't have something like that. Such a powerful thing in ministry. Otherwise you just moving from problems solution. Right. You're just going for him. It's not working now. How do I fix this at work. But I don't really I don't I don't know.
Speaker 3:Add onto that. It's. I don't I wouldn't please if you just find somebody who's in ministry. And I think when you're looking at someone who's. 10 steps ahead of you. They're going to. School your life stuff things that are transferable no matter what you're doing. So there might be some finance guy in your church or in your community that's like OK I want to start hanging with him or there might be a mommy you know who's been a stay at home mom for 30 years and there is just wisdom in how to balance that life. And all of those things so yeah I don't I don't particularly say that person is way far ahead. I'm looking at someone who is going to help me move my ministry forward. I'm looking at somebody is helping me by my life. That's that's been my differential with that is when I was meeting with Dave. I was saying Dave like. Helped me be a better human being. Being like that. It's like he like cars because. Who knows what I'll be doing in 10 years. Yeah. Like I could be flipping burgers. You know it's likely I would be flipping burgers and tenuis but you know what I mean. But. I was saying Dave how do you help me to be a better human being. Help me be a better man. Help me be a better follower of Christ. And that's why his wisdom was was so big I know was a little counterintuitive what you're saying. Because I wasn't asking him about. I sometimes I was I was like hey like what do you think your boss is a jerk. There's my old church my new church. But is that right. I want to make that clear because I'm sure my investors listen to the rest. That's that was a deal there. I was asking him about like way way bigger picture bigger picture stuff.
Speaker 4:And we understand that the beauty of silence because sometimes when we get in the audience of these individuals we want to talk talk talk and you said it's there's there's beauty in silence and understanding that look I just want to hear about your day. Tell me what you did. What was that was the content of your conversation. And although I may have questions me just sitting in your audience and hearing how you've unpacked figured out your day. Makes me.
Speaker 3:Let me figure out how did I get to this point.
Speaker 4:And really some things around and you're right. It's good to just sit and listen sometimes and and those individuals whether they're in ministry or they're just a grandpa right. I had a guy a dentist and he was the most gangster dentist I ever knew his name was Dr. Craven and I mean he.
Speaker 7:He bought his house he bought his daughter's house. He like pretty much on the block and I was like let me just sit and listen. Come on it's so good.
Speaker 5:It was like a sermon. What were some of the frequency that you guys would meet with those guys. I mean I think we have those kind of like peer relationships that maybe in ministry we're talking like you know every couple of weeks or like every month like are these things that you guys you have like an annual or like a twice a year thing to me. Dr. Dre them and you guys are meeting or like what does that.
Speaker 6:Look like it's like a frequency kind of a thing. Well you know honestly. It was all organic.
Speaker 4:Because sometimes the greatest conversations aren't planned. It's over there to see him like hey doc how are you doing today. He like yeah he's like going through the newspaper look at his stocks and I'm like oh so what's what's that about.
Speaker 3:And just let him go. It was like there was a book that was amazing. I loved it it was called like Tuesdays with Morrie.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah yeah. Look and I was like I I'm going to go find me a. Yeah go listen to that and I mean this guy had a schedule you know he was he's a retired dentist but it was just when I had time when he hit I have a guy who's.
Speaker 3:I have had both sides like we had Dave. It was very scheduled like it was like twice or twice a month at the Greek restaurant. And that was because. I wanted to respect his. Time and I wanted his time. So it was like Hey Dave. Tell me what time works for you. Can you give that to me twice a month and two that allowed me to prepare so that I wasn't going in like literally hey I got some things I want to talk about like I literally have two questions written down on a piece of paper. And I'd sit him. It wasn't like I wasn't trying to act like I had it all together I would put the paper next to me. Next my salad I know it's hard to believe I ever eat a salad. Well like I put the paper next to me and I would asking those two questions but two questions. Were they all of the some of the questions. No. Every time I met with them to be different breed different question you got to sample that one of them was you know how do you behave in a. Them just sort of. I had one was like How do you behave in a. Meeting that you shouldn't be in. Like immediately you've been invited into. But you know you like you don't have any credibility to actually be there. OK. You know and. And that happens from time to time where it's like your lead guy or your boss somebody is like hey just come in and sit in on this meeting. And I think. And this is some of Dave's vices like if somebody has asked you to be in the meeting. You've been asked to be in the meeting too. To add to the meeting. You don't sit there and not say anything anything. OK. Because someone's watching you and going. Why was that person in here and didn't say anything at all. Yes. Also you would like don't go in there and run your mouth. He's like really his old there was like he's like pick your moments. OK your moments. He taught me a lot about of. Timing. So there will be some meetings that I'm going to that I literally will set a stopwatch. On my phone. And I wouldn't talk until the. Timer hit a certain time because I'm like well he's really I'm like I got to talk first I gotta say I've got to say you know you don't need me to establish myself as as an intelligent person in this. So it was it was it was some of those. One of them. Another time I was asking them just straight up McMann me and my wife get into some arguments about some stuff like the dumbest stuff ever been there. Like support your wife your girlfriend if wasn't really close to you and you get into a conversation an argument about. Fanciful things like things that aren't reality like hey what would you do with a million dollars. I remember that specifically. I mean we're driving and. We see a blurry sign and I'm like oh this be cool like we're going to like Interac like what would be what would you do with 10 million dollars. And she started saying some stuff and I'm like. And I. Instead of just thinking and I said I'm like that's completely like. Makes no sense. That's not a wise choice of money. Rather that it is that we get a huge fight. And I meet with Dave and Tony Davis and he goes Carl in every situation. You got to ask yourself this particular you sent. Is it. Caught. Is it going to cost you money right then in there. And I'm like No. Is it going to hurt. Your. Your family if she says something outlandish. No. So he's like. Then don't stop it. And it was like groundbreaking to me because I'm like oh my gosh. Like it's OK for us to watch house hunters and her like a different house than I do. And that's it. I don't know. This is just too obvious. And it's like it's OK for us to watch you know fixer upper and not like the backsplash and not get into an argument about it. And so it was just that O.G. kind of like knowledge of like how to have a healthy relationship without getting lost in the silliness. So I remember those two questions specifically what will give us a little bit.
Speaker 5:I know that when you're not when you're not youth minister and you're trained and you're in the gym you're doing.
Speaker 6:And so like there's got to be some principles from there of you know of not having the coach but also being a coach that I think like No way. So we talk a little bit about just that. Well from my little time in the gym I know that it's not really good Dalila. And I could totally put up that number. Like no you guys are going to hurt yourselves. So give me give me some wisdom from the gym of like what it's like to be coached in that way of like being real with what was actually working and not working and why you need to have someone that actually can fully assess where you're actually at. Well you know one of the things that I absolutely love and you think about scripture is Jesus never healed anybody that said they were OK.
Speaker 7:Like he didn't he didn't if you were like damn good he was like No no no. I know there's something wrong with you. Yeah. And in understanding and training a lot of times when I'm with my clients I'm like you've got to tell me whether this is working or if it's not working. If it's too easy or if it's too difficult and what it does is it creates conversation. I think personal trainers are also like. Iyanla Vanzant like half of my life. 60 percent of what I do in the gym is like life coaching. Like yes. Here's what's really going on with me. OK so let's get through. I think when it comes to training and being transparent is there has to be those that part where it's going to challenge me not the thing and training cut plateauing. And so like I do several different things I'll do crossfade I'll do hit workouts I'll do cardio workouts I'll do just straight lifting or do Pyramid's because if you consistently do the same thing it's like nothing changes if nothing changes. We have to switch the way we do things in order for us to get greater results. With that being said. That transparency has to be. This has gotten too easy. Or I've gotten too comfortable so I need to be challenged. I have to do it differently. I've got to go over to the equipment that look scary because it may get me to a place that I need to go.
Speaker 3:Well you know what hurts so many people is no one likes to be uncomfortable riding around really like just a new challenge. Everybody wants to like you but you want but you want the you want the results right. Right. What it's of what is what it's going to give you. I think T.D. Jakes was talking about. Every Thede has to be broken before it can create for.
Speaker 7:Yeah. And so we don't want to be broken. We don't want to be challenged. We don't want to go through anything. But just as the seed is planted it has to be broken that it has to burrow through the ground before he even use the sun. So if we know that a C has to go through all that for it to create fruit why are we afraid to go through all that for us to have fruit our own lives have those moments of challenge and and discomfort for us to have growth and prosperity.
Speaker 3:And you know it's happening now. Michael Mike Todd he just took this quote quote that I it's my quote. So I don't know how he got it but just all it really is and it bothers me. But but I'm going to get over it. Don't mistake planted for buried mistakes that where you are and what you're going through right now is the end of it. Even though it seems so hard even so it seems so difficult. Even though you feel like you're so far into the background of things and you had the thing about having that honest voice in your life they're going to tell you. You're not. Buried you're just planted like your land and you're deep right now. Like let's even put more into the botany in the arbours stuff in the desert or I'm going to extend it I'm going extend it like up here in northern California where I live. You get these giant redwoods right. These monster sequoias. Why they've been standing for literally 2000 3000 years since the time of Christ. These trees have been standing not just because of their girth and their height but it's because of the depths of their roots. But then here's the greatest part. The roots are intertwined. Yeah roots are intertwined. When I learned this I was blown away. It's like you have these giant trees and the reason they don't go down that easily because. In the bottom so they might be standing there tall alone. But. Underneath the ground. They are supporting and holding up each other and that's just where that deep rich rich friendship those deep rich conversations come from and allowing someone into that space. That you want anybody and you know like you said this early on is act like the person who it might be happens chance when I think of this of a happenstance. Conversation changed my life literally changed my life. I'm ready to quit ministry. This is. Ten years ago. I'm literally ready to quit ministry. I'm at a conference speaking at a conference. And I meet these two guys. I'll say their names because they're awesome dudes. Jeff Snodgrass and drew more. Drew just became lead pastor of a church in Vegas. Jeff Selee pastor now of a church in Pasadena. Both these dudes but their youth pastor at a time. I don't know them from Adam. It's like 1:00 on 12 13 night and they're like Hey dude you want to go get a burrito. Like remember I tell you I'm an introvert and I'm like No I do not want to go get a burrito like I want to. I don't know you. I don't know why would I was like you know I want to go back to my room. And there wasn't that. I just want to go sit in a room. But anyways I end up going out with these guys and this is the I'm going to get really spiritual. This is the one honest voice we only listen to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit. I just remember as clear as day. Speaking and Mike's being to my consciousness goes. Tell him. And I just on the loan on these two. Right. Right. Right. This is what's going on and I don't want to be administrative of a puppet but then I just said this this this this question I asked him I said. What do you think I should. Go. And it was like the most honest question I've asked in. And these do just schools me for like three hours. Could you not for like three hours and spoken to my wife and didn't give me like final direction. But I remember Jeff specifically tell me hey I want you to go and meditate for one month. On someone thirty nine. You know search my heart. No my anxious thoughts. And he's like I want you to read any other scripture but that scripture for the next month and continue every day ask God to illuminate and speak. But it was so cool about that was I was honest with the spirit of speaking inside me. And then I was honest with someone that I didn't have to worry about. My position my platform. You know I mean like because they were straight they were strangers but I knew that they were. Wise people in their own context. It allowed just this just this easiness. In the conversation because because really there's there's nothing to hide with someone you don't know. You know I mean like I don't I don't I don't know if you guys ever had a past life but like before I was a pastor and I'd be I'd be like at a bar or something. I would talk to anyone at a bar. And tell them all types of crazy stuff about me. Because I knew. I'd never see you again. How does he. Know. Well I don't know that. Earlier that I liked you saying Having someone that's light years ahead of you.
Speaker 7:But I also think there's like there's a beauty in someone who may not be where you are who may be behind where you are and you still growing from them having the availability to say hey you may not be in the same position I am you may be younger than me or not as a couple. I could still grow from you. I get that. Like I totally get it. And even like you said talked about with strangers. I was just in Florida at flavor fest and I was supposed to have my own room but. You know I said God doesn't do anything by happenstance or chance of getting a. Guy by name Ishaan Finner he's out there in California too and he just starts unloading on me about the stuff that he's doing in ministry. Now we have to be careful when we allow people to speak to us that we don't get him dated by what they're doing because it might be God pushing or challenging you to say you can do this too. And so being in the audience of him involves another guy Larry Acosta. I was hanging out with Larry. Larry is a homie. Not at all. Right. You can't get in there and be intimidated. Well I haven't done what they've done. Well maybe I should look at it this way. I have three kids. I would never take my kids to toys r us and be like hey pick out pick out the toys you want. All right. Play with them. That's all. Are you having a great time. Good. Put them back on the shelf. Let's go right. You know I think what God does with us is he gives us things and allows us to be in the audience of things or even touch in and explore some things because he's like you need to see what I'm going to give you in some time. So here's your chance. Yeah. Frak. Right. So you have to be in in these places where people are feeding you and talking to you and sharing and challenging and you're like oh OK. And not be intimidated by it would be like OK I see you're stretching me a little bit. And when you get in those settings it's a.
Speaker 3:It's being wise with what I am what am I really trying to get out of this because I think that's the key. It's like yeah I think for all of us it's never about what it's about. So it's like if I'm sitting there I'm going to should Larry. You know and Larry such a brilliant leader. When you when you're talking about urban urban ministry imagery in general I get into that conversation. I got to ask myself OK am I going to get in this conversation to try to get. An edge up to try to get like oh I know Larry or I know Muzak or whatever it is or am I going to insert myself to really gleans something and this is something like. You know I get it off. Awesome opportunity to coach them coaching younger leaders and different stuff and it's like I love watching you go what are you trying to get out of this. What out of this with your relationship with me. What are you trying to get out of this really low relation with others. More often than not. Most of the folks I meet with what they want to know for me is like Carl how do you get people to pay you to do things. You know I mean because they see people paying me to do things and I'm like bro this is 16 years later. Like I'm saying life. I have. No one was paying me. Fourteen years ago ten years ago. You know I mean like I was I was just playing dodgeball with some kids in a warehouse like just like that. So it's I think that's so key of like when you enter into somebody into some of these conversations and these relationships is coming in with a with pure heart and pure motives where it's like hey I'm not trying to like level up. In my conversation because that's a key and any leader out there listen to this. Know this. The person you're talking to. Knows you're using them a level up like I'm telling you they know you're using them to level up. So next time you go to orange conference or or Cavalier's or whatever it is you go to. People know you're trying to level up for them. But but then people also know the person that they're. Truly trying to be a learner and trying to be teachable and and to the heart of this conversation is trying to have an honest conversation within limits. Like. I don't I don't love when I'm at a conference and somebody just runs up to me and it's like hey this is what's going on in my life. Yeah having some. What's your name. Yeah yeah yeah. I mean it was that you just find this competition I think back. To last year when we were at. Youth Specialties and I met this couple who. They were so honest and I missed a whole session because. My wife and I actually just sat there with them and talked a life and talked the for like they were like. An hour and a half into ministry and in a tough situation. And it was and they were so honest. But they were really trying to seek some. I had a boss who told me he was like never come into a meeting empty handed.
Speaker 7:And the thing was it's like we get these nuggets and you never know where it's going to come from. And you know thank God for the advance in technology we can just pull your phone out and you know right click copy and paste like you can have. Always be prepared to learn because when you have that that. Mindset of I'm going to learn something from anything.
Speaker 6:You can go there. Yeah. Because I think that you might need to hear the thing that you didn't come in looking for. Right that's what that means. Right. The blinders of like Karl teach me this will give me and you like you do. It was never about that like what you were looking for to build your platform or be a better speaker or get a better gig may really come back to like the discipline that you lack right. Listen you always know you don't get to hear at the level that you two guys do without us. We will how many blog posts have you written that haven't been read until the one got read. Right. Like how many small things have you shared. Many many breakouts have done it for eight people before you got to be honest. Eight hundred people right like hundred percent like guys like you. The thing that you want is like it it may be a simpler answer than you were looking for. And if you aren't ready to hear it then Missy bolt crack in the roots won't take because she wanted the fix instead of actually wanting what I had to say.
Speaker 3:Which means away with you. And that's. And that's how they got that going. OK. Well this is funny. It's like dodgeball podcasting.
Speaker 7:I'm totally right click copy and paste in what you talked about the roots. Because it's cool to think that they're down there really deep but that they're connected as well. So it's having that not only that deepness but that connection at the at the bottom of it. Right.
Speaker 3:I've got I got this I got a really close friend who we were just together maybe two weeks ago. And. This is the other piece is. We'll kind of go back to that Jonathan David. Illustration you use is pushing. For the honest conversation. So like we're really close and we talk about everything. Like I mean like we talk about everything. And I sense in our conversation I was like we're not there yet. Like I was like we're just not there to that honesty level that I know we need to be because I know what's going on his life and I know what's going on in my life. And we're kind of like dancing around the thing because we're homies we're a way for hanging out and I just kept pushing and pushing and I'm like. Nope. Nope nope. And then we broke through. And it was. This amazing conversation of growth for both of us because I wasn't going to allow it just. And again. Having the right person. Both of you know when that time is to push a person to some and deeper levels of levels of honesty so I think it's. Key to to have somebody you know you got you got the you got the Paul Timothy. Barnabus relationship. But it's like I think that's that's why it's so cool to have that person who's who's a contemporary of yours that you're like I know I can push you I can push you to deeper levels of honesty. Because. And you're not trying to oppress me I'm not trying to press you we're both trying to kind of move along together and you're not trying to teach me. Where you know that's not really sure what that was with the Timothy. So it's like. But I know we're just going to kind of go after this go after this again. So that that piece is just really really key I think of having that person that's walking alongside of you. I think I think you might imagine that will like at the same level. Yeah. Yeah that that's been a big plus for me. OK. All good stuff and impressed and a little bit.
Speaker 5:What do you do for the folks that are here and you say this but the last time they were open with somebody they got burned because they shared honestly and someone used it against them either to not hire or to. You know I'm the guy that was your reference.
Speaker 6:They knew too much about you that maybe spoke you know again. They picked you picked the wrong person. Right. Like you wanted to be honest you wanted to get there. You pick the wrong coach you picked the wrong person. How do you mend back Carl you share a little earlier that maybe this is not like your natural kind of position these folks. And will you work. A lot of people maybe you've seen this play out. How do we help the person that maybe is like guys I hear you're saying. But the last time I opened up to somebody that was in temporary or somebody that was younger than me and shared my struggles they got thrown back in my face. So how do.
Speaker 3:You got. It's it's prayerfully considering who the person is like me. The reason I don't have a lot of people is is a protection too. I think you see that the the the more people and this isn't me but I'm just saying. Well watch us. The. The the more. Influence someone gets. I think that's some all of their circle gets Yeah. And and and I think that's a protected it's you don't want to be completely insulated but you need a safe place and a protected place. The the flipside of that coin is I think sometimes when we're just trying to. Build our level of Influence we'll talk to anybody. And that's I feel sometimes is the is the Achilles heel of a lot of young and developing leaders is I've maybe talked to too many people and I don't understand where our relationship really is at. I haven't been honest with myself to go that person doesn't really know me. They've got a snapshot of me whether it's six months of working for him or is a conversation here comes just like. You know we're in a different kind of setting so I'm seeing a lot of. Applications and resumes across my desk pretty often. And when I call some of these references I'm like. Why would you use icons. Why would you have ever put this person on a reference like this. You know but I think it's sometimes we're not thinking if I if I can just be brutally honest you're not thinking and you're not thinking. Is this the right person for me. Does this person really know me or do I think. This is just the best look the person to put out there so I would say. If you've gotten burned before I would really go back to the heart of that relationship and that connection. And it's being mindful of the people. You let speak into your life. Who are the voices you speak into that. That to me is just is just is just critical. Of just getting that getting the right. Was this ill will how would you answer that. I mean my mind is running right here I'm kind of like I have like a little notepad and everything but felt. Three things that I wanted to say real quick one when you move or when you're trying to unpack our fun word for today is there's a reason that we hire professionals to help us move right. Because it helps your friends help you unpack or pack your issues. There's a chance some stuff is broken. I love it. Oh that's good. Ask who we allow to help us unpack. But then even after you figured that out. Be mindful of where you are.
Speaker 7:My little son. Oh yes.
Speaker 3:That right was sick right the other day your kiddos are is. I came out with this thought. Be careful where you vomit because it might make you feel better. It's going to make the people around you sick. Right that's right. It has. There's a place for that right. You can't just ogen Coger issues everywhere because although you feel better because like oh god I got that off my chest. Now people around you like oh my god I can't believe you did that. Right.
Speaker 7:There. I think that as much as we are transparent with our friends we must also and I had to do it.
Speaker 3:I blocked it for a while because it was that. And I'll say it like that black culture of I don't need to know talk to no doctor about my issues. You know I just want to do it right and that's good.
Speaker 7:But there is a place where we need to actually engage professionals people who are licensed to hear what we're talking about and it help us to use our magic word again unpack our feelings. Right. I think about the demoniac who was in who had all these demons he was cutting himself. And they said they would they would put him in chains. I wonder if the people he was trying to say listen I'm going through some stuff we're like yeah we're just going to give you this temporary solution. Come on a simple fix. But it wasn't until he had an encounter with Christ Ray. It wasn't until he had this encounter with God that his chains were broken and they even didn't catch this. Catch this he tried to he was like yo I want to go with you I want to run away because the people who are who I thought could fix me just kept me bound. So I want to run away. I want to quit. I want to give up.
Speaker 3:And what did he do. She sent him back. He was like no go home. Go home and go home. And so you know in that understanding of that transparency and finding people that you talk to may consider fining a professional because sometimes your hobbies your crew they are going to give you the message of as you are. Where you've never been.
Speaker 7:Right. Right. And also. And I say this as a husband. I.
Speaker 3:Don't neglect the people that are in your own house. Sometimes life is like talk to me. Tell me what's going on in your life when you're not going staying. Well give me a chance to try. And end it. And it's going to level it. It's never about what it's about. Being honest with yourself and going a level deeper than it is. So like. If I come out of a I come home and I'm ticked off because something happened in a meeting. Yeah I could talk to Jen about. That issue or I can be on this and go. You know what. I feel like I've been overlooked. That's a whole different conversation and when I'm like I feel like I've been overlooked that this is this vulnerability that's transparency with your spouse. And now it's not like oh it's it's Curt's problem. Of course my boss like this is a current issue. None of it gets real quick the way it's like. No this is my issue. Jenna I went through. I went through. Counseling for a season. And. It was all we ever talked to carry our counselor about was it was never about what we thought it was about walk in his compositions because we were willing to say we were willing to be honest. And again everything came down to daddy issues right. That's all I'll save you 50 bucks you got daddy issues. Everyone you got too much or not enough. Got it. Exactly exactly. Somewhere it's somewhere on it. But that was so easy for us just to be honest a love that will win when you're in with the who's close to you and again. God. Has. You clear your leaving and Cleveland. And then the two become one and I think that's in everything. It's like there's not parts of me that Jen can't know there's not parts of me that her that I can't know. So the ugly parts the broken parts the the insignificant shallow parts the insecure parts. I've got to make those of those aperta her. And then we got to a stage in our marriage where it was like oh like you're saying where we like. OK. We've taken each other as far as we can take each other in this conversation. Let's invite a professional in. Her act to continue to walk with us through this and it and it was. It was brilliant what we actually did was. We would do sessions we would. We were going like. Twice a month actually one season we're going every week. But I would do one where I would go general go then we would go. Like. And it was like. It was brilliant. Like sometimes like she'd be like waiting for me out in the car. I'd come back so happy would you guys talk was like oh man. I told her that you're a train wreck you know and she would she'd come out of her session. And I want you guys to mention I told her that you're a train wreck and then it was just it was just so. Good. And you've heard this outage but it's like. It's not just when things are falling apart. It's not just in crisis that you'd go for that for that for that professional look. It's like a car like right. You take your car and when it goes to 3000 miles no matter what. I'm like I go I've got the oil change I'm. I'm going to maintenance this car. You got a maintenance your heart. Got to meet into relationships and it's like get in there before you need to be in there. You know I mean that's when you can really really really really do that work. Well.
Speaker 4:The final wasn't at all 88. I also like how you said you mean you've got to you know ask God to show you who to speak to you know what does. What does is they try to spirit by the spirit.
Speaker 3:You know not not everybody you talk to needs to listen right now and just because they have something to say doesn't mean it's something worth saying. So you got to talk to people that you know can not only. Be able to hear what you have to say and understand it but can also provides of quality feedback. And I mean we do sometimes we unload on the wrong quote and we're like oh that was wrong and I'm going to play it. Again.
Speaker 7:Yeah right. But it happens right. Your heart gets broken but you learn.
Speaker 3:And if you don't learn from what I think I said the other day how many times you got to fall for you to stop trippin. Where can you unload stuff. I'm like a book of small quotes. But you are you're very good at the as good feel like a living Twitter. I like it always. Hackers are like negative.
Speaker 5:Well guys it's been super helpful conversations were powerful conversation and the things that I'm hearing are you to have the people you know the people at different levels whether that's you know like at the same level one step ahead steps just where you were to share that wisdom that helps capsule for you is like man this is what I've learning to pass on.
Speaker 6:You have folks that are visionary for your life that are way down the road not just about like what's in front of you but you want to be. But the thing that I hear is cultish ramping up with is that we need to be evaluative not just of ourselves but the people that are in relationship with us and that some really should run their season. And some folks that need to have come fill in a spot in our life. For a particular reason and if we to be honest enough. We know where we're at and where we're not. And that's a really really important thing. We want leadership in the kind of ministry leadership. But just for the pursuit of life having the right kind of people that will speak truth to us that we're ready to hear. So. I don't want to Taggerty a thing at the end last of closing thoughts.
Speaker 3:We'll mean all those tweets. I want to say this we didn't talk about you could probably add or subtract that shirt on the outskirts go. I know growing and youth ministry I would get so frustrated at my senior pastor I was like I wish you would just talk to me. Can we have a conversation and you tell me that I'm OK and then I'm doing a job in ministry and sometimes senior pastors not going to do that. And you have to be. Not only. Confident in the work that you're doing but that there are other people who will tell you you're doing a good job and even if they don't because sometimes I've realized in growing and doing ministries that there's a lot of youth pastors that are angry because they feel like their youth their senior pastor won't have a conversation with them if that is the issue. So you know. I was just sharing this in a breakout with exactly what you said. But the reason. This is not always a reason but sometimes this is the reason they're not engaging you. Not because they don't trust you. It's actually the flip side. They can actually trust you. And they finally got there. And you don't even realize it. They actually think you are the expert. You know they're like I don't need to jump into Will's thing I don't need to jump in calls thing Jackson like they got it and you're looking for that affirmation. Like look at me Dad I'm doing a good job. And then like I do. I do good. And it's like no no because I'm not saying anything to you. Yes know that. That's my trust in you. And again I think it's having that internal conversation with yourself and having those folks with you to be like bro you're good. You're good. Yeah that's why he's not that's why she's not leaning in right now. Like no news is no news is good news. You know I didn't end up on your Wednesday because she did a good job. I just dress that because there's. I seriously see it up often so often they're like Man I'm leaving care and I'm like yes. That means they do care like they're doing things they like they're doing they're doing their job. You're OK. Like move forward. Yeah. Yup yup yup. But again I think that's that's at security and self security and calling you to go and to know that I've got I've got that thing going on. But to the point of our conversation like if you feel like you need that. Validation a there's something there to be like you said we'll like now seek someone out. That's. Going to. That's going to constantly walk with you through that that you can ask for that feedback that you can engage in that conversation and that person knows they're entering that relationship. I wouldn't say this either. I think you've got to. Have that where it's like. Hey. Zach. I'm going to come to you once in a while. Because I want. Some feedback from you because I want you to step in. It's just a homey talking. I think when people know that they're one of the voices that helps them to decipher the conversation and go Oh look we're in that zone right now. We're not just kicking it. We're in that zone where we're calmly something we will need something that makes sense. I think you've got to have those clearly defined relationships. And the other person is I don't know that they're that voice to their voice.
Speaker 4:Good man this is going to be some good talks. You've got to fire mad you wrote some breaking the today. Here you go. We need to talk.
Speaker 8:All right. There you go. That's our fun conversation with a will in Carl about honesty in youth ministry. Really just life. So the people that you need to have the focus to be listen to the questions you will be asking the way she'd be listening and then getting routed down deep where you've been planted. All great stuff if you want to check out more.
Speaker 9:Good evening she booster dotcom. Learn how you can be a part of the network where conversations like these are happening on the regular. Thank you so much for listening. We love if you give a chance to review let us know what you think on Apple podcast Google Play or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks again for listening who contribute your podcast. We'll see you back next week. Hide.
