Wrestling With Youth Ministry In Context w/ Zach Burke

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*Special Guest Alert* Join us in the ETCH podcast ring with Zach Burke!

The heart of the conversation lies the exploration of ministry across contexts from Kentucky, to Tennessee, to Florida. Zac and Zach share stories from our time in home churches, where familiar faces can be both a blessing and a challenge, and how mentorship guided us through these early stages. Transitioning to a beach church brought new lessons in leadership and creativity, as seasoned mentors helped us navigate the art of crafting messages and planning impactful events. These experiences highlight the crucial role of context and the growth that comes from embracing change.

The journey doesn't stop there; we venture into the lessons learned from transitioning between different ministry roles. Respect for established systems, understanding the unique culture of each church, and the art of balancing tradition with fresh innovation are key themes in our discussion. We recount personal stories and meaningful connections made along the way, emphasizing the power of unity and collaboration across various ministries.

00:00:00 Wrestling With Youth Ministry at Etch

00:12:15 Ministry Experience in Context

00:22:25 Transitioning Through Various Contexts

00:35:55 Embracing Ministry Unity

Transcript

Youth Ministry Booster Podcast at Etch

Speaker 1 0:06

What's up? Everybody back with another episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast hanging out at. Edge Conference 2024. My name is Zach and I'm joined by Zach, also Zach.

Speaker 2 0:15

Zach with an H.

Speaker 1 0:17

Forget Zach and Chad.

Speaker 2 0:18

It's double the Zach, double the fun, Zach squared Zach squared, I'll add the H back in, just for today. Big bet, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 0:25

ZAC, zach, that's right. Mr Burke, what's up, buddy?

Speaker 2 0:27

We're here at Etch. We are at Etch Conference, nashville 2024.

Speaker 1 0:30

Neither one of us live here, but we're here.

Speaker 2 0:32

We don't. We traveled long ways to get here together, man To hang out together.

Speaker 1 0:35

You know, I traveled, you traveled to great, but you, I'm here for you. Oh man, I appreciate that you did bring me here so I appreciate that you said that well, dude, I'm excited to have you uh long time youth ministry friend uh, youth ministry booster member.

Speaker 2 0:52

Now, uh, from kentucky to florida, which we'll talk about in a little bit that's got.

Speaker 1 0:54

I mean to go from no ocean to so much ocean.

Speaker 2 0:57

I mean we say it more like to go from seasons to hot.

Speaker 1 1:01

Oh, okay, yeah, we have hot summer and hotter summer. You missed the cold yet you missed the cold A little bit, a little bit, being back in the Sold all his coats.

Speaker 2 1:09

Every one of them. Yeah, sold all of them, including our kids, he had to go buy long pants for this week. I did actually. Yeah, Flip-flops and sandals are our offense.

Speaker 1 1:25

Dude. Context is a word that everybody likes to use. Context, Tell me your context. So I need you to help us out a little bit. Though Chad's not here, God bless him wherever he's at, or whatever. What context do you think that he's in while he's gone? I mean, we wanted him here. He's not here. What is Chad Higgins' current context? Current context?

Speaker 1 1:39

Where's he at, definitely hanging around the booths trying to get as much free stuff as he can. Now is he the kind of guy that brings his own bag to fill with freebie stuff, or is he like hoping that like one of the booths?

Speaker 2 1:52

no, he's bringing his own stuff. Chad, if you're watching, you have a problem you probably.

Speaker 1 1:56

It's just free stuff, man. You can't have all of it we're here because we love you.

Speaker 2 1:59

Yeah, we each wrote you a letter.

Speaker 1 2:01

We're gonna help carry your bags later well, uh do speak of carrying the bag. Uh, for some of our folks, this is the most important part of the conversation. Uh, we're friends of youth ministry. Both dads, both uh glad to be here at etch, but we're talking about wwe, yeah, so this is a big moment for me pro wrestling.

Speaker 2 2:19

This is a big moment for me. I I this was a secret love of mine, uh that I did not talk much about.

Speaker 1 2:27

It's like a confessional moment.

Speaker 2 2:28

It's a confessional moment, okay, telling the world, because I grew up with it, but it does have some of the assumptions about it. Okay, sure.

Speaker 1 2:35

So I'm like I watched it on the low, yeah.

Speaker 2 2:38

But now I'm like I'm proud, I'm out and I'm proud, I don't care if it's fake it proud I don't care if it's fake. It's fun, you know what. So is ministry it is. Don't tell them it's fake. They'll beat you up.

Speaker 1 2:45

They're hurting every week. I want to know for the folks just to go ahead and either unite the room or divide the room. What is your pro-wrestling Mount Rushmore? It's a conversation that every true wrestling fan goes through. What are your folks? And if you need to add a fifth one, or if you can't decide, it's okay. But who are the ones that you're like for you personally?

Speaker 2 3:03

not the best of all time, that's too objective For you subjectively.

Speaker 1 3:07

who are your four?

Speaker 2 3:09

that matter the most. So I will say there's no Hogan, there's no Rock, there's no Stone Cold.

Speaker 1 3:14

for me Wow, wow.

Speaker 2 3:20

You have, the listener base is shrunk, but the conversation continues.

Speaker 1 3:23

So I grew up into the Attitude Era, into the Ruthless Aggression.

Speaker 2 3:24

Now you're just dating yourself. I remember the episode with Cena coming out and smacking Angle.

Speaker 1 3:29

I was watching that.

Speaker 2 3:30

With a fist.

Speaker 1 3:31

We also did Cable growing up, so I could only ever watch SmackDown and Raw.

Speaker 2 3:36

I could only watch the recaps of.

Speaker 1 3:37

Raw.

Speaker 2 3:38

Recaps okay.

Speaker 1 3:40

So a SmackDown kid in the 2010s, that's right.

Speaker 2 3:44

John Cena but, specifically young cena, doctor of thugonomics. Oh no word life. So here's a wild fact about me. So I grew up in louisville, kentucky yes, okay, ovw is yeah.

Speaker 1 3:54

How about wrestling? And I was an important, an important like up, like like for folks on the come up like that's an important, stop so cena orton, yeah, tista.

Speaker 2 4:02

Okay, all those guys were in those developments. So you are the evolution While I was there. Lesnar Brock. Lesnar We'd go to Kentucky Kingdom and watch it. One of my friends had an armband from Cena. We wore it as a headband Because his arms were huge. So Cena, but specifically Dr Thuganomics.

Speaker 1 4:27

Probably Randy Orton. He's great, he, he's great and he's still got more to give legend killer randy orton was really good.

Speaker 2 4:30

Yeah, yeah, that was um. This is where it's gonna get weird for me because I have a fourth one, but it okay, I'll just go.

Speaker 1 4:37

Ray mysterio you raised great I love ray I resonated with, like the yeah, yeah, resonated with like the underdog. So when he won that title, oh right, right, Hard-earned, well-earned, yeah, deserve it, so looking back, I want to do a tag team. Pick a team. Can I put a tag team? You can put a tag team. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Hardy.

Speaker 2 4:59

Boys, hardy Boys, matt and Jeff, matt and Jeff, I want it to be a heart.

Speaker 1 5:03

You were such a slice of time like that is like you were. You are literally a cm punk away from being a certain era of a fan like that is yeah you, you just have decaded yourself.

Speaker 2 5:14

I wandered away a little bit. Punk first kind of came in okay, I remember the pipe bomb. Yeah, you were there for it, but I remember the wrestlemania that really got me back into it was uh, well, actually I got back into it because of a student thing, okay.

Speaker 2 5:28

I had a student that did not like me. Yeah, we can talk more about this. Okay, wow, he did not like when I got to the church I was at, and then I learned he liked wrestling. So I started watching SmackDown again, and the next week I said his name was also Zach. Shout out Zach Mosley if you're watching. Strong names all around.

Speaker 1 5:44

I said hey.

Speaker 2 5:45

Zach, tell me what you think about that Randy Orton match last night. And all of a sudden, the walls came down.

Speaker 1 5:50

This kid and I, it was our thing.

Speaker 2 5:52

We talked about it all the time. My wife was not a fan. I subscribed to the WWE Network, wrote it off as a business expense.

Speaker 1 5:59

We'll see. Wow, true confessions.

Speaker 2 6:02

So there was that WrestleMania where they brought the Hardy Boys back.

Speaker 1 6:05

Yeah, yeah, remember that one, one of many times, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. The most recent one, jeff Love's, a good comeback story.

Speaker 2 6:10

When they won the titles again. Yes, yes. And the New Day was hosting.

Speaker 1 6:15

I audibly got off of the couch.

Speaker 2 6:18

Yeah, okay, that was probably the only time I've ever been that excited in my adult life so good.

Speaker 1 6:23

No, man, it's uh, it has that effect. I say so. I got back into it, grew up on it, got back into it because of my boys, right, like one of those like to see it through a father's lens. It's a different eye now, but just to watch them, like my seven-year-old blonde hair, blue-eyed boy, like his heroes is cody rhodes, are erling holland for soccer and cody rhodes because cody and it's one of those as a dad, cody rhodes always does right, he's the good, I mean, he's like in wwe, he's the good one, he's the, he's the face, he's the, the white meat baby face, as the fans say, and it's fun to cheer together when he comes out and he goes whoa, we all hit the whoa, hit the whoa, we're ready. Not the, not the whoa, not the arms out.

Speaker 1 7:05

Yeah, yeah, uh, but it's been, it's one of those things and there's others. But in youth ministry, looking for those opportunities of high interest, low stakes, right, like, this is the like, it's the marvel, it's the sports, it's the, it's the dc, it's the, the like. You want something that kids are super passionate about and you could have a super strong opinion about. But at the end of the day, if you do or don't like the undertaker, it's fine.

Speaker 1 7:31

It's fine, but it's a talking point. I think student ministry sometimes, like we can lose the importance of that because we want them engaged and there's something about so for your Zach Mosley shout out buddy, uh, that like he came alive because it was something he cared deeply about. There's something connected with that, because sometimes in ministry we're like we're wanting them to be engaged and we're like, can they be engaged? Like I mean, youth ministry has been a conversation for a while, like our kids today, apathetic. I don't think so. I just don't think we've been able to find the right buttons to see what like literally hits the alert of like, oh my gosh, like our relationship is different now, well, there's that old whatever of like nobody cares how much you know, you don't know how much you care, that's right.

Speaker 2 8:14

And you're like, oh, we hear that all the time. Well, there's a reason you hear it all the time, because it's true, it's true and we forget it and we got to say it again and again.

Speaker 1 8:21

But, man, tell me a little more about you. How did you end up in student ministry?

Speaker 2 8:27

So I started in student ministry.

Speaker 1 8:28

I know you enjoy it, but like how I mean there's other stuff you could have done.

Speaker 2 8:32

I could have done some. I was going to be a lawyer at one point. I wanted to be a sports broadcaster.

Speaker 1 8:36

Okay.

Speaker 2 8:37

A rapper.

Speaker 1 8:41

Dr Thugger Darvish, he's your god, what's my man?

Speaker 2 8:44

so it's wild. This is an entry question, but I just wanted to point this out. There's a generation of people that don't know john cena has a rap album, a full one, a full.

Speaker 1 8:52

Look it up. And what's crazy about the john cena rap album?

Speaker 2 8:56

it's not that bad like it's got some it.

Speaker 1 9:00

I don't know, this is really a music podcast anyway, maybe another day hey you like, what you like Life and worship Hit me up.

Speaker 2 9:07

We'll have this argument. So I started, I grew up and I came to faith. In middle school, was in a small student ministry and we got a new student pastor towards the end of my senior year and he saw something in me that I don't think others I think others did.

Speaker 1 9:25

They may just sort of yeah, so anything, and I remember he spoke it.

Speaker 2 9:29

He spoke it and started giving me some opportunities to to lead and to do some things. And I remember thinking, man, this is a lot of fun, this is. I like doing this. And then the opportunity came up to move to Bradenton, florida, which is like right outside Sarasota, actually. Anna Maria Island Beach life Very beautiful About as close to beach life without living on the beach as you can get. Flip flops and shorts were the church attire there.

Speaker 1 9:56

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no judgment, no judgment. He wore flip flops, yeah, jimmy Buffett, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 10:01

And so that was my first like internship, like real internship, and I just fell in love with students coming to know faith, getting to do like these, these big things in the ministry world of that seems so small, but like going to a basketball game and seeing the kids smile because you showed up. Like man, I wanted, I needed that as a teenager and I had guys in my life that which has been fun, to come to etch and see some of those guys, yeah, uh, who showed up when others didn't right, and so that was kind of what formulated that start in student ministry for me. Uh and there, and so um was in bradenton for about two years doing my undergrad beach, yeah, beach Beach.

Speaker 2 10:43

Reach on White Ave Beach in Anna Maria and then got the chance to leave there and go to a church right outside of Nashville, in Hendersonville. Okay, worked at Long Hollow for a season in their middle school ministry with John Steen, who is one of my heroes in the faith, yeah, and we always want to shout out a mentor.

Speaker 1 11:01

Shout out to the mentors man I. We always want to shout out a mentor. Shout out to the mentors man. I got so many Jacob Dunn. Yeah, man, john Steen, speak their name. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 11:07

So many and got to do that for a season, met my wife here in Nashville and then we left this mega church and landed in rural Kentucky in a farm church in Owensboro and it was night and day difference of church world right and so got to go there. And then we landed in Elizabethtown, kentucky, right outside of military base, and then now I'm in DeLand, florida not doing student ministry Adjacent, you're adjacent, I'm adjacent.

Speaker 1 11:38

We have folks that are on here that are youth ministry, either veteran or adjacent Totally fine, totally fine.

Speaker 2 11:43

So doing discipleship, don't tell my pastor, but during discipleship ministry, overseeing our family ministry team.

Ministry Experience in Various Contexts

Speaker 1 11:51

Well, so that's one thing that I wanted to talk to you about. So I'm excited for your new role and we've had great conversations about there is some more trends for you know, glimpsing the big picture at doing youth ministry, especially if you're not the youth minister A lot of folks still the youth ministers at churches but some of that shifting in the ways in which those touches, like there's people that are overseeing others that are doing the work, the important work. But the thing that you bring is really an experience that I wanted folks to hear about is that you have served in a variety of contexts, man. Like literally both geographically, church size and a variety of roles. So like what are the things if you want to go, stop by, stop or just kind of?

Speaker 1 12:34

Give us some different like funnels, like what are the ways in which you think about or research, identify or do ministry differently because of the context? Because I think some folks they're in their context and they're ascribing things to their context, like, well, in my context we do this, but, brother, you've been just about, you've been everywhere, man. So tell us, tell us how you maybe at first didn't and then did, but context by context, give us some insight of just your process and some of the like, the practices that were different?

Speaker 2 13:06

yeah, that's a really great question. So you know, I started in the church, I got saved in, okay, and worked with jacob dunn yeah home church, so home church context number one, serving in your home church. As a senior in high school, going into my first year of college was just a goofball and I was trying to figure that out. And I actually didn't do a very long student ministry internship. I went to children's ministry um, and that's where, and so here's what I learned there I'm not called to be a children's pastor.

Speaker 1 13:38

Uh, that's what I learned in that content so sometimes, sometimes, you learn what you do by learning what you don't do.

Speaker 2 13:43

No, no, I love my time there I actually got to see the children's ministry I worked under for the first time in like 10 years here at this conference. That was really cool. So that was interesting because I had my siblings were in the ministry, my family was in the church, I was, you know, I grew up there so like people knew who I was and they had the pressure of I got to be a good. At the same time I was trying to figure out really who I was as a person and developing my faith and growing in my faith and all these things, and so that was there.

Speaker 1 14:19

That was probably my short. You feel like you got extra trust or grace because of it, or extra scrutiny. Looking back, I mean, mean, it's been a minute and obviously you probably do things differently. Yeah, yeah, what were some of the ups and the downs from that?

Speaker 2 14:30

so, or maybe wisdom you'd give about ups and downs for folks that are literally serving in their home church yeah, there's more and more folks that are doing that yeah, and, and it was a campus, so there was that whole, okay, you know that uniqueness, yeah, but it was a, I think I got was given a lot of extra grace, ok, and I Savor the grace when you get it. That's right. I went through some pretty big growth moments in that church in the ministry field of like. Oh, if you are called to ministry, the above approach thing is real, yeah, and so if you're going to be a knucklehead outside of the building, you can't be a leader inside the building. Yeah, yeah, you can't be a leader inside the building. Yeah, yeah, and growing up in a tougher environment, some struggles, and it was just like the joke I make now, probably shouldn't joke about it, but I deal with humor because I'm a millennial. That's what we do. I get it.

Speaker 1 15:15

Laugh to the pain.

Speaker 2 15:16

Yeah, laugh to the pain.

Speaker 1 15:17

If I laugh, would I be crying? We laugh to keep from crying.

Speaker 2 15:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was this. Old habits die hard yeah.

Speaker 2 15:24

And I was so unsure of who I wanted to be as a person. And there's a guy he's not. He is in ministry now. He was not a full-time minister. His name is Jody Brummet. He was our tech guy and I ran pro presenter every week for our church the equivalent of pro presenter and I can remember on Wednesday nights sitting in the sample with him just talking about life. Like Jody, I don't understand why this is happening. I don't understand why this is happening and and I remember him saying it's because of the decisions you're making and and this the grace that he was able to show, and like he could have yelled at me and you're a knucklehead. All instead was man, how can God use this to grow you? Yeah, right, and so I think there it was. I was blessed that people was there some scrutiny, sure, sure. But I also was very blessed that people knew my family, yeah, and they knew. I think that they saw something in me I didn't see. Yeah, and I think that was huge. Love it. And so that was there.

Speaker 1 16:25

And then we got to Bradenton. So context number one home church beach church. Beach church a little bit out of your element home church would be lower income.

Speaker 2 16:35

Suburban that kind of environment mostly lower income but again Kentucky to Florida, Bradenton. Sarasota was upper middle class and up Beach resort, maybe almost Almost.

Speaker 1 16:50

Sometimes we weren't that close In the summer.

Speaker 2 16:54

But I got to work with two guys there, aaron Sherrill and Sammy Duran, that I loved. I learned so much. Aaron was an intern at my home church and that's how I met him and learned a lot from them. I learned how to prepare a message. I learned that was kind of that cutting the teeth of they. Let me plan an event. Your typical internship right Plan an event Was going to school lunches. I got to see the value of that. I got to help lead a leadership team. I got to cut my teeth teaching there. I actually found the old Vimeo this is how old it is Vimeo page of our student ministry and I watched one of my first sermons and I went. Who in the world keeps?

Speaker 1 17:32

letting me teach. What did you preach on?

Speaker 2 17:35

I want to say it was in Ephesians Okay, and I'm pretty sure it was on our identity and getting closer to the edge of sin, okay. Bold theological concepts I do remember the series was called Get Her Done. Get Her Done.

Speaker 1 17:53

Sure, this was like Slice of time time. You are a time capsule, my friend.

Speaker 2 17:57

this was peak duck dynasty yeah, yeah, uh. And it crossed barriers yeah, we so, and that church was just because we did have some of that upper, middle, upper, middle class wealthier. We did have some lower income families too, and so, but there was that I learned the beauty of enjoying where you're at.

Speaker 2 18:18

Okay, and there was a was a season where I was on the church maintenance team and I remember you know, working on the church maintenance team, cleaning bathrooms, going. I can't believe I moved my entire life down here and I'm cleaning a toilet, yeah.

Speaker 2 18:32

Why would God ask me to do this? Yeah, and I could remember, like in that frustration, god being like but if you won't clean a toilet, why would god ask me to do this? Yeah, and I could remember, like in that frustration, god being like but if you won't clean a toilet, why would I let you do anything else?

Speaker 1 18:40

so a season of humility at the beach. A little bit, absolutely okay it humble.

Speaker 2 18:43

I walked in there thinking I had all my stuff together. Yeah, I knew everything and it was. I mean, I think I'd been there a week and they had to sit me down and go. Hey, man, we gotta talk. Uh, I just was so rough around the edges and was growing. They're very gracious, very patient. I still talk to aaron quite often so what?

Speaker 1 19:00

what was what drew that season to an end? What got you from there somewhere else?

Speaker 2 19:04

so it kind of got to that point of, uh all right, I want to do this full time. Yeah, it's time to move on, like kind of take that next step. And uh, a mutual friend of mine connected me to a church in Hendersonville Long.

Speaker 1 19:16

Hollow, so Florida Tennessee.

Speaker 2 19:19

Hendersonville, tennessee, to a large church.

Speaker 1 19:21

Yeah, multi-campus Were you main campus. I was at their Hendersonville campus.

Speaker 2 19:25

And when I got to Long Hollow I think there was five campuses total Okay, it was in the transition before Robbie Gallaty got there. Okay, I got to work with a great team. Yeah, specifically, I worked middle school ministry specific with a guy named Johnstein man. He did my wedding. He's your guy. Love that guy. And what I loved about that was the beauty of teamwork in student ministry. Okay, because they sat together. We sat together every week. We sermon prepped, prep together, we event planned together.

Speaker 1 19:57

Like it was a cool experience you did not do it alone like you, literally like no. Some of that helps because you had some staff folks yeah, but but the, but the lesson of not doing almost anything alone, right nothing alone.

Speaker 2 20:09

You don't go to lunch alone, you. You minister together in community for the community, exactly okay. And uh that's a good, and to see it done at the scale it was was overwhelming for me, because I I didn't grow up in that where I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah, and I was actually talking to somebody a little bit ago talking about like I learned so much just sitting in a room next to some of these guys and these girls just watching them them do their thing.

Speaker 1 20:35

The process yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 20:37

When I got there, the best piece of advice I got came from another mentor, jacob, and he said be a sponge.

Speaker 1 20:43

Soak it up, soak everything up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't try to figure it out too quick, no, just let it happen. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 20:49

And Johnstein was very good, was very good. He trusted me to do some things that I don't think I would have trusted me to do okay, I'm like, hey, I want you to saw a little something in you.

Speaker 2 20:57

Yeah, I want you to develop and implement this like service. The student leadership team and I got to do that and even like as far as like, the high school pastor was one of the first people to ever sit down and help me make a budget, like little things like that. That just went so far and seeing the beauty of man surrounding yourself with people that don't have the same talents and good things as you. Yeah, it's such an important leadership.

Speaker 1 21:22

Well, and I think for everybody that has the chance to, the opportunity to, wherever you're at now, you can serve or you're serving faithfully, but the chance to trust some of the system of the church, especially if it's a church that has a lot of processes or teams or layers like 100%. Ask the questions, learn, but, man, they may teach you a way to do it. That wasn't just what you discovered.

Speaker 1 21:45

For some folks that I know in ministry that are ready to go eager and willing and big effort, like, well, I'll just figure it out always. They may have already figured it out in a really great way. And you may get to just really savor the thing they figure it out, especially if it's like not an area of strength for you, Right Well?

Transitioning Ministry Roles in Various Contexts

Speaker 2 22:04

and it's that beauty of if they've already figured something else out, right, if they've already got this thing done. That's one less thing I have to do, that I could build relationship capital with other people, yeah yeah, because you can't do anything without that anyway not well, you can't, but not well right longer it takes longer, yeah. So you gotta it's. Let's go back wwe for a second. Yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 22:25

The the storylines that mean the most to us took a while they took so long to tell you think of cody in the roman story oh, dude, that was years, so long there was literally a whole year that we doubted it. We did for a year like this was the wrong choice and then it was like what a beautiful payoff. And then it was the the most right choice and for my money, that they had made in a decade, a long time, like, like, literally for a year. We were like dumb, dumb, dumb. Why would they?

Speaker 2 22:50

ever pg era trash.

Speaker 1 22:51

yeah, this is not like regret, regret, regret, regret, regret, yeah. And then 11 months later we were like actually dadgum, that was great.

Speaker 2 23:00

So when you spend that time not trying to fix a not broken system yeah, yeah and learning the way it's already being done and why it's there and why it's done that way, it allows you a space to build relationship.

Speaker 1 23:14

So again, people trust you and that may be a large, large church. It may just be a little bit larger church than where you're at, but I think learning those things and identifying that, like, some of those things are in place for a reason, man, there are a lot of things when it comes to protocol and safety, organization and budget that are meant to be guardrails to help you and not hinder you, and I think, identifying those and maybe in some ways find ways to celebrate them. But you weren't there forever. It ended up. That's where.

Speaker 2 23:40

I met you.

Speaker 1 23:40

You were in Elizabethtown.

Speaker 2 23:41

No, there was a stop before that. A stop before that, oh, pittstop Okay. But Hendersonville has a special place because I met my wife there.

Speaker 1 23:49

Oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 23:56

If you're ever going to ask me my favorite, stop that one wins. I got my wife, so from there I actually went to Owensboro, kentucky, so that was my first.

Speaker 1 24:02

Stop in Tennessee to find a wife.

Speaker 2 24:03

Basically, that's what I told people.

Speaker 1 24:06

There's a lot of people that come to Nashville to find a spouse or because they've already found one. Hard to say. Hard to say.

Speaker 2 24:16

So my first full-time. I'm the guy. Ministry space was right after that in owensboro, okay, and it was a smaller, yeah rule, you know town so you went from being on the team to being the guy, the guy.

Speaker 1 24:25

So what was that? Uh, what are you learning there?

Speaker 2 24:28

I learned a lot of things, okay, but I think the most important thing I learned was just because it worked over there doesn't mean it's going to work over here. Yeah, and I had the benefit of working, you know copy paste is not.

Speaker 1 24:43

Yeah, no, copy paste is not. Contextualized copy and paste is not copy and paste.

Speaker 2 24:47

It's better to copy and paste to match the style okay, you know what I'm saying, yeah, so there were elements of what we. These fonts aren't the same, yeah there were elements of what we did at Long Hollow that did translate well Taking popsicles to practice, leader meetings, having a budget. Having a budget, the basic things, all the things. But wanting to come in and run that ministry of nine kids, the way we ran a ministry of 300.

Speaker 2 25:17

Ministry of 300. Yeah, my first week was, I mean, I, I burned, I almost burned a bridge with a volunteer because I tried to make a big decision without consulting anybody. Yeah, I had, uh, I almost lost. I mean it just was one of those things that, like, I went in so guns a-blazing. Yeah, at such a young age, thinking I had all these answers, and what I look back on and go is like I can't believe they put up with me, right, like, and I can't believe that it that God still blessed it. And I remember thinking there was a season of why would I leave where I was for this? Because I think, sometimes, unfairly, we paint the big churches where everybody wants to be and that's when you're successful. Yeah, but there is this beauty of small legacy man I learned I can do stuff with with 15 students.

Speaker 2 26:09

I can't do with 200. There's a flexibility. I can know everybody's name, yeah, and in student ministry you know a kid's name.

Speaker 1 26:16

Yeah, that's power. It changes their life. It does you talk about some of the things that are entrees to relational discipleship? Yes, it starts with being known. Yeah, again, you can be known in a larger church, but maybe not by your youth pastor. Right, right, it's the value of small group leaders, all the things that.

Speaker 2 26:37

All all the things you would learn there. And I learned in owensboro the value of a good adult team too, because I was solo, yeah, I was by myself, and I was like, well, I can't go to every game, I can't be at every small group thing, and so I learned the beauty of of building a team around me of good volunteers, and I love that I'm actually friends with the guy that replaced me when I left, he came in, that's cool.

Speaker 2 26:58

And uh, him and I were friends. Shout out ben fitzgerald, ben, they love yeah, so uh. And then from there went to elizabethtown, okay, um, which was a, a very legacy church. Yes, that church is older than the commonwealth of kentucky, okay oh, that's right.

Speaker 1 27:13

One of the first pastors was scalped by indians.

Speaker 2 27:14

Oh okay, oh, that's right, yeah, real world, yes, yes, one of the first pastors was scalped by indians. Oh, okay, like real story yeah, yeah, yeah and uh, so really lego, it's got the like historical monument thing outside of the original building, uh, in downtown etown and, um, that was a unique experience coming in to such a regionally known church of kind of this in between, size.

Speaker 1 27:39

A lot of furniture came with the house it did.

Speaker 2 27:41

And it was in between size wise of Long Hollow and Owensboro, but what was so unique about that was man. We were 15, 10, 15, 20 minutes south of an active military base, okay, and so the military had a huge presence in our church yeah, the kids ministry, the student ministry.

Speaker 1 28:01

Military families on the life cycle that they are coming in now? Yes, which?

Speaker 2 28:05

is interesting because it's a. They show up at your front door and they're like so what can I do?

Speaker 1 28:09

Yeah, they want to go, but maybe only there for a few years. Was there a lot of that?

Speaker 2 28:14

Yes, you'd have a kid come to your ministry and you'd see him all the time and then, like one day he's just not there anymore and you start asking like a friend, like hey, where did Johnny go? Oh, johnny's dad got moved to Oregon. Yeah, you're like when?

Speaker 1 28:26

They're like yesterday.

Speaker 2 28:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah, is he going? Don't know, it's like that was a real. Uh. Some families would leave, not because they're frustrated, just because they got told they have to leave, you know. And so it's uh, at one I began to value the beauty of short-term relationship building. Okay, because I realized, man, I could have a relationship with a kid. Yeah, military families are such a unique. They go through things nobody else does.

Speaker 2 28:55

The stress of my dad or my mom is away and I can't call them yeah, like in a world where we're so connected, to be so disconnected from your mom or dad. Yeah, the stress of that and it's not a not necessarily a new stress, right, military's been around forever but but the conversations you would have with kids and even spouses of man. It took me a little bit to learn that, yeah, and then to value man they care so much about what they do yeah, and there is not many places that do community better than military, because they only have each other they only have each other.

Speaker 1 29:29

There's a shared uh struggle. There's a shared calling uh, there's lots to learn.

Speaker 2 29:35

And if you can get them to serve as leaders, they're phenomenal.

Speaker 1 29:39

Well, because they value community rightly, but you may only get it for a few years.

Speaker 2 29:46

You can't make them sign a year-long commitment because they might legally tell you they have to go. So you go from Long Hollow to Small Town, USA to Middle Town.

Speaker 1 29:58

USA.

Speaker 2 30:00

Everybody's been through E-Town. Not many people stop there, but then that context of that military presence was so. You just learn so much from their family dynamic.

Speaker 1 30:10

So what are some of the? Now that you've been all these different places, you're in a new place. Now I am in another new place.

Speaker 2 30:16

I am a nomad.

Speaker 1 30:17

What are the wisdom questions? Someone's listening and they're like identify me, that sounds like my place. What are some of the key questions as folks are transitioning into new spaces or new roles that, like, are the right things to ask you you named about, like the kind of families that are there, maybe position, maybe the income, maybe the, the social expectations? Like what are some of the things that you've learned over your travels? That will be the questions you continue to ask.

Speaker 2 30:44

yeah, so one of the things that I I vow learned to value is in your first year, your only priority needs to be building relationships.

Speaker 1 30:53

You're just learning, you're just connecting.

Speaker 2 30:54

There isn't you are not gonna be able to change anything. Yeah, you're not gonna be able to fix anything, and if you're gonna stay for a while, it's still gonna be there next year yeah, like it's not going anywhere, right, right. So if it's not a oh I gotta it's not a detrimental ship is sinking like. Try to fix it right away. I don't know how to explain that. On a podcast, it's okay yeah, I think you're gonna have to explain that.

Speaker 1 31:22

That's right, we're live here at edge and so we got friends walking by. We've had some waves and smiles from folks, uh, but one of our camp mascots is a giant peach. It was a peach and he was shuffling by, he was. He had a little bit of a shuffle as he went by, a peach shuffle.

Speaker 2 31:37

That's so funny, but I actually did take a picture of him because one of our kids loves peach.

Speaker 1 31:41

They love peach, man. They love the peach. We did send your kid down in Lake Yale Florida and he came back anyway, so.

Speaker 2 31:47

I think it's that. So I think it's that. So I try whenever I talk to a guy that's moving or transitioning. I've had the privilege of getting to have some guys on my team that have gone on to do full-time ministry and stuff, and my parting gift to them is always a year's worth of curriculum that I've written. I say use this however you want.

Speaker 2 32:05

You can use every bit of it you can use none of it, I don't care, but I tell them when I give it to them. This is to give you space. Yeah, to take your leaders to coffee. Yeah, to get to know your staff.

Speaker 1 32:16

You don't have to guess what you're going to do next. No, because the work you're about is the relational work you need to tweak it.

Speaker 2 32:22

sure, you gotta, you gotta make it yours, but, and so I think the most important thing is, regardless of your context, you can't do anything without relationships, and I think the other side of that is understanding your context. Is your context because you're there and there is no? This is better than that, because it's that I had a guy.

Speaker 2 32:44

There was a guy. I went to a camp one time and he had a switcheroo set. I told him and he was like oh man, if I just had your resources if I just had your resources, if I just had your budget.

Speaker 1 32:51

I'm like one.

Speaker 2 32:53

You don't. You don't know my budget. Yeah you don't know my resources right like I think we get caught in this trap sometimes size of church does not always fully indicative of flexibility, resourcing or investment.

Speaker 1 33:04

Like no no, sometimes it's not what you think, yeah, and you look at it at every level, at every stop you look at it and that you assume those things.

Speaker 2 33:13

But it's like, and I told him, I said man, but you're assuming that I don't have the same type of problems that you have. Yeah, yeah. And so there's this beauty of when you can just sit around a table and just be student pastors together and learning. The bigger church down the street isn't just trying to take my kids.

Speaker 1 33:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2 33:33

Yeah, it's a bigger church down my street might just be a friend that you can get coffee with once a week and hang out and pray together and work together for the kingdom. And so your context matters because you're there, yeah, not because somebody might put you on Instagram or you end up on a couch at a, at a, at a conference. Right Like it's not that it's god that one of my favorite books is nehemiah, yeah, and there's that part of nehemiah where really well built, it's well built yeah really, it's a hey, just stay on the wall.

Speaker 1 34:06

Yeah, yeah, quit worrying about the other junk, yep and stay on the wall, and that is something that, again, you can't know until you're there enough to research, and you can't research unless you're willing to remain Like I think some people are always like. One eye here, one eye, yeah.

Speaker 2 34:27

I will be very transparent in this setting. I struggled with that. Okay, it was a constantly like what's next, what's next, what's next for me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 34:35

Man, like one of the things and we've talked about it on other episodes like the church that you went to, unless you helped plan it, like it was there before you, it's going to be there after me, the prayers it'll be there after you. And so the question is, in what level of impact positively, can I treat fairly, for not trying to upset or disrupt for the sake of it, but again, like good garden metaphors, like good growth, like good life cycles, like where are we at, what does it need? And I think that caretaking, that nurturing piece, comes from a deep level of trying to understand and not just do, which slows us down and forces us to actually learn, which I think are two of the key critical planks of relationship building yeah, and that was the other thing of like, you know, elizabethtown was the longest I'd been somewhere since I left home.

Embracing Ministry Contexts & Unity

Speaker 2 35:29

Some of that is natural when you look at it of like, well, he was a, so he was an intern, he was an associate, yeah, but what I learned is that the longevity of a stop, yeah, develops you to do things. Yeah, I think sometimes we want to come in and do on day one, right, right, and it's like what if that one thing you want to change is the one thing god wants to use to get you to grow as a leader? You know what I'm saying? I don't do yeah.

Speaker 2 35:55

Come on, yeah, I remember sitting in my office going, I want to, I want to change, I want to change, I'll change it, and somebody looked at me and said why? Why? Well, cause, it's not my thing, who cares?

Speaker 1 36:06

Yeah, your words right like.

Speaker 2 36:08

Could you imagine if one of the 12 disciples like hey, jesus, I know you want to do the bread and the fish. What if we did like pizza?

Speaker 1 36:14

yeah, like you know what I'm saying, fish is not really my thing. This is my thing, that's cool, it's like my thing.

Speaker 2 36:20

Yeah, but you know, that's my favorite miracle of jesus, when he feeds the 5 000 and the 4 000, because that's the miracle where jesus puts the ministry in the hands of his disciples. Yeah, he says. He says I'm going to do it, but y'all going to go pick it up.

Speaker 1 36:32

You're going to go pass it down.

Speaker 2 36:33

Yeah, and it's like he used that one miracle to prepare them for what they were going to do when he was gone. And so when he's leaving and he says, my power is with you, don't make you know, take the gospel to this level of the one thing you might just want to change could be the very thing god wants to use you is to grow you, and it may still end up changing. Yeah, there was something that I changed, uh, at one of my stops. That was a legacy event. It was a big deal and it took, oh, it took four years to change it, because I had to make sure I wasn't changing it for the wrong reasons, and I had to. I tried to do it in a way that honored the lord, yeah, and grew the kingdom so good, and I think, when we can step back and immediately step in and go, regardless of my context, the church down the street's not my enemy. Yeah, we're not competing, yeah they.

Speaker 1 37:32

They're in the same boat. I am. Let's learn.

Speaker 2 37:34

Their struggle may be different their wins may be different, but when it comes to this whole context is all over the place, and I think it's because we don't want to offend people, we don't want to be like well, but if you would just do it this way with all due respect.

Speaker 1 37:49

I said with all due respect, I said with all due context it's literally the ministry equivalent of bless your heart. Yeah it is In my context it's like oh, bless your heart. Yeah, yeah, right With my problems. Yeah, you say it with my problems, with my problems when?

Speaker 2 38:01

in ministry. You come together, realize that each individual church in your town is a different context. It's good, and so it's like what if you were? What if we stopped caring so much about what worked over there, what worked over here, and we just said but what if we just worked together for jesus? Good, and I think along the stops. I'm not perfect. I have lots of things that I look back on and go. I can't believe. One they didn't fire me Right.

Speaker 2 38:33

Or two, like I can't believe I got the opportunity to do that or to see God do this and and to see what the Lord can do through his people. And now, sitting in a chair where I'm not really in the everyday of student ministry but I'm adjacent, I get to see it. Uh, shout out to nate hicks. He's our student associate, nate young guy coming in green, watching him learn some of the things that I learned at this age. It's like, man, you got so much it's gonna be so fun for you.

Speaker 2 39:04

It's fresh eyes and so yeah, it's uh. Context matters matters. Your church culture matters matters. Like you can't yeah you can't change culture.

Speaker 1 39:13

You can't do ministry a part of it. It's understanding.

Speaker 2 39:18

Your role as a student pastor is not to change culture. You are a branch on a tree. You're running your student ministry like a little church.

Speaker 1 39:25

It's going to burn out real fast Again. Bless whoever's next.

Speaker 2 39:29

Yeah, I struggled with that. Yeah, and when you could operate in the, the, the culture of your church as a branch, yeah, and you can work together with your kids, ministry or who maybe you're the guy doing all of it yeah, but you see how the tree fits, you come in and you go. What reach in this one?

Speaker 1 39:47

That's good.

Speaker 2 39:48

And I think, when we understand our context well and we focus on where we're at, not where we could be or where we think we want to be, I think that's where the Lord uses us the most.

Speaker 1 40:00

Well, Zach Burke, dude, long overdue. Thank you for all the countless conversations we've had over the years so many. And all the places you've been Again. There's been years of us getting to know each other better. I'm excited for your new chapter now. Thank you, You're always a youth pastor at heart, always in my heart. Always in your heart. Always in your heart. So again, thanks for checking us out Hanging in Etch 2024. Maybe see you back next year. Thanks everybody, We'll see you next week, See ya.