Rethinking How Students Actually Learn in Youth Ministry *Also They Sniff Deodorant*

Hey buddy...

Are your teaching methods actually connecting with how today's students learn? I mean they love Roblox, Minecraft, and Cedarwood Scents.

In this conversation, Chad and Zac challenge youth ministry leaders to move beyond traditional sermon-style approaches to create more engaging, effective learning experiences.

The disconnect is clear: while schools have changed their teaching methods to include more group work, technology integration, and interactive learning, many youth ministries still rely on one-way communication models that don't match how students absorb information the other five days of the week. 

As Chad notes, "If modern day teachers are trying to shorten lessons to be more engaging and hands-on, why are we trying to defend a longer sermon?"

• Teaching approaches should differ based on room size, audience age, and learning context
• Students learn differently in school than previous generations, with more group work and interactive methods
• Fill-in-the-blank worksheets and guided notes help students track with teaching and practice note-taking
• Visual aids and object lessons create memorable sensory connections to abstract concepts
• Teaching students to teach others builds confidence and develops them as disciple-makers
• Our goal should be equipping confident believers who can articulate and apply their faith
• Consider your specific audience when planning - teaching 10-year-olds differs from teaching adults
• Moving beyond content delivery to skill-building and confidence development transforms youth ministry

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:21

A snack only chat.

Speaker 2 0:23

Where'd you go? Where'd you go for so long I've been, I've been working. I've been working dad's got a job, he's out there making meetings happen just sitting on a zoom somewhere. That's what I've been doing just a, just a fanciful zoom and either uh I don't know a water park or a beach resort no dude, I'm sitting at my house at my kitchen table zooming it up, you got that nice upstairs attic area, though it's pretty good. It's a finished attic. That's nice. That's pretty good. All right here's one thing.

Speaker 2 0:57

It's got that real Chevy Chase Christmas vacation vibes. Yeah, you're just in your robe.

Speaker 1 1:02

We're pulling back the curtain for a moment.

Speaker 2 1:05

The people at Michigan. Your robe, I'm. We're pulling back the curtain for a moment this wasn't people, the people of michigan.

Speaker 1 1:07

They want to hear what you've been up to. Okay, but here everything you're saying, and yes, I put up a nice little partition behind me, you did, yeah, I'm in a big open room that actually faces a door behind me. That's just awkward on zoom. So I put up a nice little barrier, put some things on it, but it's like a makeshift and that's what I think I need everybody to know. I'm even going to talk about this because if you're a new listener, if you're a long-time listener, you know we're sitting in your garage, okay that's right, I'm not here to judge.

Speaker 1 1:34

This isn't the beautiful lifeway studio. This is. This is zach's garage.

Speaker 2 1:39

We did have somebody actually comment that though they're like man, you have a really nice studio and I just laugh all the way to the subaru dealership. This is like plastic. It's just plastic on the wall.

Speaker 1 1:50

There's boxes up above us that they can't even see right no, you got you uh, you got it smells like gasoline in here.

Speaker 2 1:59

Well, that's, that's because it's mowing season, my man, that's. We haven't put the stable in, it's still mowing season in some really funny ways, though.

Speaker 1 2:07

This is student ministry, right?

Speaker 2 2:09

oh, it's oh dude, like it's the most student ministry thing to like take what was given, yeah, and to make the visible parts as nice as possible, like, yeah, like I mean listen, there's probably a box of old t-shirts in here somewhere, yeah, yeah, so if you're as a student minister out there who feels like I don't have enough budget and we're in this like weird room upstairs of the church, we feel you, yeah, no, we okay.

Speaker 2 2:35

So my favorite moment from this summer we were at a, an event, uh was was sharing with some youth leaders at a kind of like an internal like summit gathering and the the meeting space was in the choir room, yeah, and I commented they thought I was kidding.

Speaker 2 2:48

I wasn't kidding. I was like, oh my gosh, all these choir robes, that's great installation if y'all ever want to record videos or a podcast. And like they could tell, look in their face. They're like, is he making fun of us? I was like no man, like that's awesome. These are like better than the foam you would buy because these big, beautiful velvet robes are going to soak up all that sound.

Speaker 1 3:09

So one thing that as we transition in and I'll kind of segue a little- bit.

Fall Ministry Transitions

Speaker 2 3:14

Oh yeah, Fun fall times.

Speaker 1 3:15

So Zach and I, you know, obviously we work at Lifeway, but we also I mean hopefully we attend church. We attend church even volunteer actually yeah, so me and my wife are new College of Ministry Sunday School teachers.

Speaker 2 3:31

I do hold on. Let's talk about this, though. I do love this In the roles that we're in. We are still very much student ministry adjacent, but we kind of have branched out into the proximate stuff. You're now doing college stuff, teaching leading, and I'm in J-high stuff. It's so loving.

Speaker 1 3:48

Which is amazing because none of the college students know or care even what I do for a profession.

Speaker 2 3:57

Lifeway sounds like yogurt. Yeah, they're like. What are we doing?

Speaker 1 4:02

Which is great, and I love it, but my wife and I have really, really enjoyed it. We're walking through Psalms. Now Tell us, though, about being—now. Zach worked in the student ministry specialist.

Speaker 2 4:14

Now are you a middle school, high school, so it's—well it's our 56th ministry, so part of— oh, so you're not even in, we're knocking on the door yeah, so part of it is—so at our church we've tried a couple of different things. We've had high school and J-high student ministry, but our school systems predominantly do K through four, fifth and six, seven, eight, high school, yeah, and so the alignment is okay. Do we do like we do try to six, seven, eight thing for a while? So this fall we've relaunched fifth and sixth grade ministry because we're 56. And so it functionally is like a J-high ministry or whatever. And so I was going to put myself on the market. I was like I'm happy to help this fall. Who needs me? And so our new fifth and sixth grade guy, also named Zach strong name. Strong name was like dude, this is a new thing. I name strong name was like dude, this is a new thing, I'd love you to be a part of it. And I was like well, isaiah is a fifth grader, so I'm intrigued. You have invested in him. Let me run it by him. Isaiah's like dad, I'd love it. Yeah, so I'm in.

Speaker 2 5:12

So I'm on the team for fifth and sixth grade ministry, so there's going to be some really fresh middle school-ish stories brought to you piping hot from the last few weeks, and so I told all of them and so we may play some of these for them. Eventually I didn't troll them to see if they could make it on the podcast, but fifth and sixth graders that found out I had a podcast like there's going to be. There's probably at some point going to be two sixth graders across the table here, or we're just like recanting the whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah so, but we wanted to start fall season. But we wanted to start fall season. So feel free, drop a comment, send a text. It's fall fresh season. We got fall fresh stories For the first time ever in 20 years of youth ministry. I had to take back the deodorant from a middle schooler.

Speaker 1 5:57

Normally you're giving it right.

Speaker 2 5:59

Right, right, right. They forgot I supply. Here you go, big guy, I had to take it back. This week, every one of those looking back at my years of student forgot I supply.

Speaker 1 6:05

here you go, big guy, I had to take it back this week, every one of those looking back at my years of student ministry. I need you to know and maybe this is just the way I talk to people Every one of those conversations for me have always started with the word buddy Right it is oh, can we talk?

Speaker 2 6:19

Do you have various articles that lead up to those? Like is buddy like a tough talk and chief is like a discipline talk. I'm not calling anybody.

Speaker 1 6:29

Hang on chief before we, uh, before we move ahead it normally starts with hey buddy, it's day three of camp. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 6:37

The rest of us have all showered. I haven't noticed that your towel is wet. Why is your towel so?

Speaker 1 6:44

so dry. Yeah, buddy means I love and care for you, but we're about to have a hard conversation, buddy means big stuff coming your way.

Teaching Considerations for Youth

Speaker 2 6:52

So I didn't do buddy, I pulled up next to him. So here's the way it goes. So my man came packing to 56, j-high Ministry stuff, not old enough for a phone. He's got his wallet, his cool new t-shirt. He had two other accessories with him, the first of which was Old Spice Cedarwood deodorant. My man and he's just every once in a while out of his pocket kind of doing one of these, so he's not even putting it on, he's just smelling it, he's sniffing it, he is micro-, micro dosing.

Speaker 2 7:26

he's micro dosing old spice, uh cedarwood, to the point that it's distracting everybody else in our small group and I was like man, you're gonna have to hand that over for a fifth or sixth grader old spice cedarwood.

Speaker 1 7:42

He didn't buy that, that's a mom purchase.

Speaker 2 7:44

Mom bought it, mom bought it. No, mom bought it and he was carrying it with him and I'm sure she was like I'm so proud he's bringing it with him, right. And you know we were going to do gym activities. She probably was like man, what a thoughtful young man. And so, anyway, I had, I had to confiscate deodorant for the very first time. I gave it back to him at the end, whatever, um. But he also brought his own um air pump, like a little handheld, like ball pump, because he heard that we were going to the gym and he's like I didn't want to have flat balls and so, sure enough, my man got to, we went to the gym and he's out there pumping up volleyballs and basketballs for all of us.

Speaker 1 8:27

So it was useful.

Speaker 2 8:29

Useful. He's ready. He's a Boy Scout, he's ready to go. Yeah, crown him eagle.

Speaker 1 8:34

Not all heroes wear a cape, that's right.

Speaker 2 8:36

That's right. Yeah, it actually was a nice little air pump.

Speaker 1 8:47

It was like super collapsible and the needle went in. There was a little thing I actually like. It's like man, where'd you pick? Where'd you pick that up at? We should get a couple of those. So dude that kid. He walked in going.

Speaker 2 8:52

I got priorities I had a kid one time show up for summer camp big big suitcase okay like suitcase, or full on like trunk, like like our suitcase.

Speaker 1 8:56

It was one of those like yeah, you know, in like the 80s and 90s, for some odd reason we hadn't figured out that you could put a handle and wheels on luggage yet okay but it was like large. Yeah, it was too big, too big to be toted and then not rolling enough to be rolled, yeah, so he had one of these like old time big suitcases, um, but I realized going into day three he'd wear he's wearing the exact same clothes okay but I knew he had the big suitcase like it was.

Speaker 2 9:24

it was like a he brought a wardrobe but yeah, yeah, he didn't bring a wardrobe.

Speaker 1 9:30

What was he packing? The entire suitcase was filled with clothing for all of our theme nights. The man had an entire knight's armor in there, but he had forgotten all underwear. Okay, so he had no changes of clothing, but some of the best costumes you've ever seen Amazing.

Speaker 2 9:55

I love a theater major. I really do.

Speaker 1 9:58

Students are sometimes prepared for the wrong thing.

Speaker 2 10:01

Okay, well, let's talk about that. We want to help prepare folks. So conversation today a big bucket is teaching. But I think, as we get back into the fall season one of the things that we've talked about a lot and we're excited again for our May preaching event but some of the things that scale into teaching a room full of teenagers and naming what that looks like to be a more integrative approach, I think sometimes we can prepare a lesson right. I think that's one of those.

Speaker 2 10:29

In working with youth ministry folks, both inside YMB and just one-on-one, there's a lot of thought and consternation to. I'm going to prepare this week's lesson, whether that's adapting a curriculum, writing a sermon but one of the things I don't always see as the steps is the full consideration for the room that they're going to be teaching in. Like I really feel like for some of our friends they would teach that lesson whether there was 12 kids or 120 kids, like it is just like. This is the material that I'm going to present and I think there's missed opportunity for who and how it's going to be delivered, beyond just the timeframe and the content itself.

Speaker 1 11:10

So I want to make sure that I'm tracking with what you're talking about right. Because when you're saying they would teach the same thing, I think what you're saying is the content right would be the same.

Speaker 2 11:24

John 8 is John 8, no matter how big or small the room is.

Speaker 1 11:26

We're talking about the way we present it and maybe even like style or function.

Speaker 2 11:31

Yeah.

Speaker 1 11:33

I do think it's really important, and one of the first things that I think we talk about in teaching really well is understanding your audience that you're speaking to, so like John 8 is John 8. Presentation, though, looks different. Teaching really well is understanding your audience that you're speaking to, so like John H, john A, yeah, presentation, though, looks different if it's a group of 50-year-olds compared to fifth graders.

Speaker 2 11:52

Fifth graders Right Versus pews and sermon in suits or circle up kids on a Wednesday night with all their Bibles open. And we're going to walk a little slower.

Speaker 1 12:05

The room really makes a difference.

Speaker 2 12:07

It's huge and I don't think enough. People think about that as like— Well, because they preach in the same room pretty often, and so the room has just been assumed instead of considered Sure.

Speaker 1 12:20

Well, and I even see a lot of just space in general, where I've seen a lot of student ministries in really big spaces because that's what's been given to them, but they don't actually have enough students to fill the space, and so they'll still set up theater-style chairs in rows and have 12 kids in a room.

Speaker 1 12:43

That could probably, if you pulled everything out 80, 90 folks or whatever, if not, more right and that actually affects the way that people listen and hear and all those kind of things, because there's just so many more areas for distraction and even at group size, I think there's a different expectation that people have of what is my active role and participation right.

Speaker 1 13:08

At a certain level of just size of group, you start feeling like I need to be giving feedback. I think just naturally as humans, like if there are five people in the room and you're trying to just preach to them. There's a feeling of awkwardness when there's not enough eyes looking back of a crowd. And so like how do we set that up?

Speaker 2 13:31

Well, give us a little bit. I think so. Are there various categories, or is it just a consideration of because that's one of the things for a lot of friends? I think more often than not we have folks that are listeners and friends in ministry that would have more opportunity to engage with the room or have the room engage with each other than is often done. Is there some thresholds or ways that you would want to quantify that way, because I really want to get into the meat of the ways in which I think that we can reconsider our role of teaching.

Speaker 2 14:05

I think a lot of times the model that has been given mirrors a lot what we learned in seminary for preaching, where there's like points or contentions that are some kind of linear argument of either we're following the text, and so it's a commentary approach, or we're building an argument, so it's a contention approach of because this, this and this, therefore we need to do that and I think, in a sermon style, or if you're writing a paper or structuring, those things make sense.

Speaker 2 14:33

But for a room of fifth and sixth graders, for a room of even high school students, to not stop and move and learn along the way, I think is a missed thing. I think a lot of that has been relegated to oh, they'll pick that up in small group and I really want us, because I see it a lot. In a lot of churches Sunday morning, sometimes even Wednesday night, there is a master teacher approach of like I'm speaking to the room and they will have some table time, but I don't want us to wait until the thing after to miss maybe some of the moments of the most engaging thing. So help us a little bit, make sure that we're not just like throwing out everything that we have done, but maybe opening ourselves up to what could be done.

Understanding Your Audience

Speaker 1 15:15

Well. So I think we first start, you ask yourself the question of on, who is my audience? How do they already consistently learn? I think it's naive to try to create a structure inside the church that is so, so different than the way that they're consistently learning five days out of the week, right? So we have to take that into consideration. And the same way for adults, right? The vast majority of adults, I mean. You can even see some of the ways that really engaging churches, they're connecting with audiences as adults, in some of the same ways that they're learning and thinking. So, case in point, if you rewind the clock, you know 60 years ago that, like, platform preaching made a little bit more sense because that was a way a lot of office structures you know, what I mean.

Speaker 1 16:07

You had a boss. Yeah, it was communicating to all of their people they're taking in information traffic meeting. Here's what's happening they go and do with it um fast forward even into current day structure. You'll see a lot more use of powerpoints you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 16:22

visual step by step, yeah correct.

Speaker 1 16:25

why? Because we we see that even in the way that adults are learning, taking in information, we're learning even more through online those type of things. So students are the exact same way. I mean, if we think through, how are they currently learning in school? You've got more group projects. You've got space for question and answer.

Speaker 2 16:47

Tablework. Sometimes they have laptops open, like there's even like, like learning as we go.

Speaker 1 16:50

Yeah so the thing that we probably this is a deeper conversation, I think, for you and I as we think through, like learning in general. My question, though, is over the next five years, as I look at, I mean your kids, my daughter yeah uh, who younger elementary. Some of the ways that they're teaching and learning now is even very different than the way that you and I did school. I mean my daughter. The process of learning to read and those kind of things is all done through headphones, microphone and a computer, right yeah.

Speaker 2 17:23

text to talk, yeah, yeah. And so my daughter's learning to read in school by sitting in front of a computer, right and text to talk.

Speaker 1 17:26

Yeah, yeah, and so my daughter's learning to read in school by sitting in front of a computer, reading and the computer's picking up those kind of things. So whether we integrate that in the church that's a different question. But I think we've got to be thoughtful in, if this is how they're learning, five days out of the week, for us to try to like completely change style of learning instead of. Why are we building ourself another hurdle for them to hear this message? Can we meet them where they're at?

Speaker 2 17:54

Yeah, if modern day teachers in public or private school settings are trying to shorten lessons, to be more engaging and hands-on, why are we like trying to defend a longer sermon? Not that we shouldn't have a longer block of teaching, but being more and more open to either being interrupted, taking questions, setting up questions and having them turn and talk, mimicking some of that table time, or more group project time. Maybe there is a listen and then come back and report instead of just like. I hope that you heard what I said.

Speaker 1 18:28

You're teaching time on a Wednesday night, it may actually expand.

Speaker 2 18:33

Yeah, it may be a longer block, but in a different form.

Speaker 1 18:36

Well, because you have to take into consideration how are they learning? Because if we're just doing it to give a really good talk, but our kids leave not knowing anything or applying anything, you have failed, even if they sit there and go. Ooh, I liked that story.

Speaker 2 18:55

Yeah, I enjoyed it. I want you to hear that.

Speaker 1 18:57

I enjoyed. It is not the thing that we should be looking at as success.

Speaker 1 19:04

is not the thing that we should be looking at as success, like you, can get up and tell some really funny stories, be really compelling, engaging, use tone and flexion, all that kind of stuff and enthrall an audience, but there is no life change or there's no. Consideration is maybe a better word, right? Consideration is maybe a better word, right. There is no desire for more or a longing for God's Word. That I think we've missed the point of what we're actually trying to do. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 19:37

Well, I think, to get out of that mode of preparing my talk and maybe that's where it starts Maybe the first step is don't just consider what this next Wednesday will be, as I've got to work on my talk, like let's expand it out to. I mean, if it's designed to be an encouraging word, then first of all, please don't make it long and please make it way more specific, like if your whole point is I'm going to speak in a way that both enthralls, educates and encourages. Speak in a way that both enthralls, educates and encourages. That's probably going to be tighter and more focused. But if your goal is, I want to teach on a Sunday or a Wednesday midweek, whatever, let's consider it more broadly and then integrate the time that we have that involves them more in the learning process, because I do think that that's one of the things and we'll talk about it on next week's episode.

Speaker 2 20:25

When it comes to content, scope and sequence and planning, everybody has a pretty good content plan, but the consideration for the context at which this is being shared needs to be right for what we were hoping to do, Like one of the things that's come out of the research that we've done for the book, and then also just some of the things that we're working on next is the ways in which we are not just trying to create environments to share or distribute content, but build skill and build confidence. And I think a lot of that happens in absorbing and learning stuff in a way that feels rightly owned and not just memorized or repeated. And I think that's some of the big shift from kids ministry to youth ministry is finding the ways in which they feel equipped to the knowledge and not just repeated back absorbed, heard the knowledge.

Practical Teaching Strategies

Speaker 1 21:18

So let's talk real practical for a moment. Yeah, and remember all of this and everything that we talk about in student ministry is different for every group. It's different even for individual youth ministry of knowing your strengths, knowing your weaknesses as a teacher those type of things let's talk through. If we were to give them three pieces of advice or three ways to implement what we're talking about, what would maybe be things that you would start with? Can I start?

Speaker 1 21:43

first yeah, start us off, yeah, yeah maybe be things that you would start with. Can I start? Yeah, it starts off, yeah. So one of the things that I think to consider for us is actually something of old, that I see far fewer now, but I actually think is really helpful, especially as we're talking about students, because, once again, it is part of the way that they learn. I actually think that fill inin-the-blank or the worksheet-type thing is a good way to help students stay on track and stay focused.

Speaker 2 22:10

Yep, well, to track with you. And there's an uptick of this, one of the things that we've talked about before that man, it's wild Note-taking is at an all-time high and highlighters are in. Man Like there's a group of young ladies or young men in your group that probably bring a baggie of highlighters in their Bible because they wanna get into it.

Speaker 1 22:32

So one of the methods that I've always heard of being a really effective teacher is breaking it down into these three steps. One you teach them what you want them to know, right? So the fill in the blank is helpful for that. So go back to John 8, right, If that's the example we want to teach them. Here's what scripture teaches, here's the application, those types of things. For us, here is what you need to know about John 8. But the other part of that process is the second part teach them. Well, we want them to know. The second piece is teach them how to learn. So it's not only we're walking through John 8, but in addition to us teaching them about John 8, like you're talking about, we're teaching them what to highlight in this, as they're reading Scripture of John 8 on their own. We're helping them understand how to unpack Scripture those times.

Speaker 2 23:23

How'd you get there?

Speaker 1 23:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, correct, and we're asking questions along the way. The final step of that process is how do we apply this right? So teach them what we want them to know how to learn, and then how to apply.

Speaker 2 23:36

Love it. Another piece of advice I would give is man we live in, as you referenced it earlier. If you're coming into a teaching environment and you don't have a visual, either a slide behind you or an object in front of you, you're missing out on the sensory learning. So I think that's one of the things we work really hard on talking pretty of crafting our words, telling our stories, but most memories are held in what we saw, what we smelled, what we tasted, and so if your lesson isn't fully considering all the functions that we have at our disposal, you're missing out on free opportunity. Even if it feels cheesy Like, I would even push back and say, well, I don't need to bring a slingshot for the lesson on David and Goliath, because they know what a slingshot is, maybe, maybe.

Speaker 2 24:21

But again, even if they already know, there's new association and I think we see this really really biblically founded in both the teachings of Jesus and James. I mean, everybody knows what a mirror is and yet when you read James, you're like, oh my gosh, mirrors and rudders and saltwater are different, because he's associated them in that way. And I think for a 7th grader and 10th grader, those association things really, really matter.

Speaker 1 24:47

And I think it is wise and it's really the crux of everything that we're talking about. You have to remember we're talking, in some cases, about 10-year-olds.

Speaker 2 24:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:58

Right, if you're trying to their journey isn't your journey.

Speaker 2 25:01

You got to remember what it's like when you were their age Correct.

Speaker 1 25:04

If your same style of teaching is the same for 10-year-olds as it is on Sunday morning, you have not thought about it.

Speaker 2 25:12

Yeah, you haven't considered it widely.

Speaker 1 25:14

You have not considered your audience and so to be able to walk in. I mean, that was our rule when I was a middle school pastor many years ago, our rule for anybody that we invited, whether it's interns, somebody from external that we were bringing in to teach, or even our own staff. If you are teaching on a Sunday night, or Sunday morning or Wednesday night, for us to our middle school students, you had to have an object Because for them, in their brain development, they're still trying to make sense of it all.

Speaker 2 25:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1 25:45

And so if we can help them draw association with something they already understand and draw a biblical principle to it, it is more memorable Because for most kids and think about it, they're going to walk out and their mom and dad is going to ask them well, what did you talk about tonight?

Speaker 2 26:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1 26:02

And the vast majority of them cannot recall Right, because they're not even going to remember John 8's where we were at yeah, the Bible, Jesus, stuff like that.

Speaker 2 26:11

And it may not be them being sarcastic or disingenuous. They may be like we talked about the Bible. That's all I got.

Speaker 1 26:16

They don't know how to recant it, but if you can help them with an object lesson, because most of them understand a bicycle pump, yeah Right, most of them understand a bicycle pump, yeah Right.

Speaker 2 26:27

Or deodorant, somehow, right.

Speaker 1 26:29

Cedarwood Smells good. That's a story or an illustration that they can retell. Yeah, and once we help a kid be able to retell it in their own words, they are closer to remembering.

Speaker 2 26:42

Yeah, that's good and, again, I think that's part of the educational model too, of telling them what we want them to know and how to learn. It is being able to repeat it back or teach it to somebody else, which is, I think, the third thing that I would offer as a piece of practical advice is making sure that we are creating space for them to not just agree or repeat back what they've heard, but try to share or explain it with somebody else. This is something you're going to hear more and more from us. Confidence building in our students, I think, is a core competency of your ministry. More than just did they read the whole Bible? Did they go on the mission trip? Did they enjoy camp? Do they feel confident about what they know?

Building Confident Disciple Makers

Speaker 2 27:28

For some folks this is a series on apologetics, for other folks this is testimony writing. But both of these are tuning into that really important felt need from parents, expressed through their student, that they want them to feel secure about what they know, and so teaching it back to somebody else is going to be a big part of, even if it's just, man, what you heard, would you write it down and then share the written thing with your mom or tell your neighbor Like there's gotta be some of this, that, like I've heard these things said, or maybe even encouraging some of the students to give a last week recap for this week's lesson is really, really good stuff.

Speaker 1 28:05

All right, I'm going to make a statement.

Speaker 1 28:06

Okay, it's a strong statement.

Speaker 1 28:08

I think what we're talking about is one of it's not all of the reason, but I think it is one of the reasons that we have a big lack of disciple makers inside of the church as adults.

Speaker 1 28:23

I think, if we look at a lot of the ways that our churches do teaching, it is all designed to continue to keep pupils or disciples, instead of training them to be disciple makers of we're imparting knowledge on you, of what it says, to what we're talking about, of helping kids learn how to then teach it on their own or share the story of what they're learning. So there's a big difference if we're thinking about teaching a kid math compared to how do we teach somebody to teach math right, and so I think we've got to think through what we're doing at a church level is and it's the mandate of Jesus. Therefore, go and make disciples right. Disciples are people that also would make disciples, and so I think we've got to think through it at a 10-year-old level of how do we eventually grow them into adults that could teach their kids or lead you know, and he's cool, or?

Speaker 2 29:33

be, just be evangelist. Hey man, not just come play basketball, but be somebody that brings the pump.

Speaker 1 29:40

That's a good time. I didn't know we were going to go there, but it really is Right. I don't know.

Speaker 2 29:45

He heard there was basketball, so he brought a pump.

Speaker 1 29:48

And he was looking at it and thought things smelled funny.

Speaker 2 29:53

He's engaged. Listen, I'll never forget like, legitimately, I'll never forget the kid that brought Cedar Wood Old Spice to a way we were going to teach and share. So we'll pick it up more next week. And, chad, what you're talking about the disciple making thing matters so much. I know that a lot of us have big plans for this fall and this spring, and so we hope that you stay encouraged in the ways in which meeting weekly with students really matters and we're going to talk about it on next week's episode of moving out of the rut of going week to week in our ministry and week over week, because that will keep you hopeful and hopefully will also be helpful in the things that we're about. So, chad, let's go grab some lunch.

Speaker 1 30:33

Thank you.