How Youth Ministry Can Reach Gen Alpha w/ Dr. Shelly Melia

Gen Alpha Is Here. Is Your Ministry Ready?

The students walking into your ministry today have never known life without smartphones, algorithms, or instant access to the world.

They're also asking bigger questions than many churches are prepared to answer.

In this episode Zac Workun sits down with Dr. Shelly Melia at SBC2026 to discuss what makes Generation Alpha unique,and why youth ministry may need to rethink some of its biggest assumptions.

From AI and biblical literacy to belonging and family discipleship, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom for leaders who want to disciple students instead of simply entertaining them.

• Why Gen Alpha is fundamentally different from Gen Z
• The coming impact of AI on discipleship
• Why biblical literacy is declining faster than many leaders realize
• How COVID shaped students' expectations of faith and suffering
• The importance of teaching lament and resilience
• Why belonging—not attendance—is becoming the key metric
• Helping parents become disciple-makers at home
• Moving from information transfer to transformational dialogue
• Why every student needs trusted adults—not just a great youth pastor
• Practical ways to reduce digital dependence inside your ministry

"The whole world is Gen Alpha's neighborhood."

"Students are receiving far more discipleship from their phones than from the church."

"Stop talking at students. Start dialoguing with them."

"Students don't just need to belong. They need to be needed."

"The truth is stronger than the questions."

"Youth ministry isn't just about entertaining students. It's about empowering disciples."

Practical Takeaways

• Build your ministries that prioritize relationships over production.
• Teach students how to wrestle with suffering before suffering arrives.
• Assume less biblical knowledge and teach foundational Scripture intentionally.
• Create environments where questions are welcomed.
• Equip parents instead of replacing them.
• Help students practice presence in an age of constant distraction.
• Shift from event-centered ministry to disciple-making communities.

Reaching Generation Alpha — Dr. Shelly Melia & Shane Pruitt

Transcript

Live From SBC

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast, live from SBC, hanging out with some of our favorite people. Dr. Shelley, thank you so much for coming to hang out today. We are here on the carpet. People are walking around. We're talking all things new or uh Gen Alpha to you. So celebrating with some of our friends that are both authors and professors. It's seminary summer at Youth Ministry Booster this season. And so these are all coming out this summer for folks that have a little bit of a reading list to tackle. And so we're going to talk about reaching generation alpha in a little bit. But we're here in Orlando. So I want to talk about some of your favorite things at Disney, and some of your favorite things at Disney are running.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Get out of here. Why? Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

If you're going to run, why not run at Disney? That's right. I mean, that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

So you've done the dopey.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Tell for folks that don't know. I mean, I know all the runners in the room just rolled their eyes at me, but what is the dopey here at Disney?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, so the dopey is a series of four races that happen four days in a row. So you do a 5K on the first day, a 10K on the second day.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

I'm with you. Yeah. So far.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Half marathon on the third day. And then a full marathon on the last the last day. So it's four. How do you walk on the fifth day? It's great. It's like 48.6 miles in the course of four days.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

You run through the Disney parks.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

I mean, if you it's through the parks. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

So the marathon you go through all four parks.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

And ESPN.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

And you run through the parking lot of Blizzard Beach, which is absolute torture.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

But everything else is great.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

That's awesome. Is it like the rides are going and people are out, or like when does this take place?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

For the marathon.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

How do you get through all the crowds of the the starts at 5 a.m.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Okay? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

A little pre.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

You're finishing, you're running through uh Animal Kingdom is the last place you run through. Okay. And if you're at a decent pace, you can jump on the single rider line of the Everest ride and ride it. I tried to do that last year, but my daughter was trying to find me to cheer for me. I was looking for her. And then by the time I got back, they had shut it down and said no more riders. So I missed it.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Not the ride.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

That's a pretty cool thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Do you uh just are there certain are you just running all over? Do you have certain marathons you're trying to hit for stuff?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Or well, we we love the Disney parks, and then we've done the national parks too. Oh, okay. Okay. I think we are starting to love that more than Disney, although Disney has great medals and great some key parks that have either like hikes or runs that you've been trying to do. Yeah, so we did Zion National Park.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

We did Glacier National Park, we did Mount Rainier National Park and a few others. But uh the national parks are really amazing.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

A gift.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Such a gift, yeah. I mean, so inspiring. But I will say this. I don't want your listeners to think more of me than I am. I am a completer, not a competer.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

So my I finished all those races, and that's the best thing you can say.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

You just told me you started a week with a race, and the last day you still finished the marathon. I'm in awe. I'm in all, yeah. And then went to Disney afterwards and stood in lines. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

The older I get, we do more walk-runs. But we we finish them, and uh it's the journey, not the destination.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

So well,

Who Gen Alpha Is And Why

SPEAKER_01 3:25

we're on a journey a little bit here. We're talking, you've got a new book uh addressing, I think, um, some of the bigger, broader concerns, giving us some really helpful language for a lot of us that are working with this what feels like a fresh crop, fresh generation of students. So um, let's go ahead and set the let's do our good uh homework, Professor. Okay, help ground us, define for us who is Gin Alpha actually, really, anyway. Like when we say like it gets as a millennial that got tagged for everything. My my mother-in-law also thinks millennials need to get jobs, right? Even though that we're like 44 and we're managing Chick-fil-A or whatever. And like her grandchildren, like she's like anyway. Um what age, who are, what is Gin Alpha precisely? What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Feel your pain. I'm a Gen Xer and nobody talks about us.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Oh, okay, sorry. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

But there wasn't a lot of bad ink spilled.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Millennials hate boomers, boomers hate millennials, Gen X got forgotten again. Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Sorry about that. Anyway, so I get that. But um, yeah, so Gen Alpha it comes behind Gen Z, which you guys have had in student ministries for a while. Well, a little bit, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

So you're familiar with them, but some of our older uh Gen Zers are actually our youngest youth ministries. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Exactly. So now we've got these Gen Alpha that are beginning to populate your student ministries. Okay. And they were born 2010 to 2024, so they're up to 16 years old.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

What kind of sets that demarcation line? Like what what is that just a a general run of 20 years-ish, or is this paired to events, or what what kind of like helps frame that in?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yeah, it used to be every 20 years. Now it's like every 15. 15, okay, because things are happening so fastly, so differently young and so you know, um there and there's yet five different people who want to talk about generation. They may define it a little bit differently, but Mark McCrindle is kind of the secular guru.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Okay, kind of sets the sets the flag post 2010 to 2024.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

So they're up to maybe moving into high school ministry now. Uh they'll be at the university. I just led a workshop for our university last night online and said, hey, they're coming our way. We've got to start thinking about how we're gonna teach them, how we're gonna assess their learning differently. And so uh, so yeah, so they are they are your middle school, rising high schoolers. Um and we we've been sort of uh looking at them for a while and beginning to try to understand how do how do all these things in the world impact them and what might that mean for a student ministry and for other ministries in the church.

AI And The New Digital Dependence

SPEAKER_01 6:00

What are some of those key features for them? I know that like you know, people often talked about uh for millennials, you know, we all got phones, right? Like that was Gen X had pagers, uh millennials, gen Gen Y had phones. Uh what are some of the the Gen Alpha features, either technologically or socially, or like what are some of those like kind of key markers or artifacts?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

So I mean Gen Alpha is following closely behind with Gen Z. Uh, you know, it's not that technology is necessarily new, but it remains a formative part of their life.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

So native too, like they like that the world has always had it, has always been Wi-Fi, has always been second screened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

And it I would say that for Gen Z, you you talk about millennials got phones, Gen Z got social media.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yeah, they got they got smartphones, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

And so, you know, social media, we now know the effects of that for all the research. And so I think Gen Alpha, the big disruptor in their life is gonna be AI.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Uh, because they're growing up uh being able to smarter than smartphones, yeah, yeah. Whatever, because they're not having to actually do the work, they're becoming dependent upon technology, um, and it's shaping everything that they do.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Do you think that's a piece of it that maybe instead of a technologically enriched is technologically dependent?

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Is that some of the framing? Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

They're they're dependent. I mean, take away a phone, tell a group of kids you want them to all put their phones in the middle of the room. They break out in hives for a few minutes. I'm bored.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've you've not done anything for six seconds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Attention span is so is so shortened, yeah. I mean, let's be fair. All of us have become we're susceptible.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

We all sort of fight that tendency to melt into that virtual world because it's so much easier, less friction in some ways for us to interact with than the real world. And so AI definitely, I think, will be the that that sort of experiment. It's a living experiment on that. We don't even know.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

We experimented social media on Gen Z. We're now experimenting AI on Gen Alpha.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

And I think AI is way more powerful than social media.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Oh, sure. Oh, sure. Well, so that I was gonna ask you, that was my question. I think we often use generational language to talk about them. What are some of the ways in which these things are changing how they see themselves? Because I think that's one of those um this this impacts ministry work, like the ways in which uh the environment, uh, the technology, the culture, the social relations, like how is that shaping the way they see themselves, other people, or maybe even big questions like truth and faith?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Sure. Wow, that's a great question. Um, you know, I think I I can only compare it to how I was shaped, and like I said, I'm an Xer. Yeah. And when I was growing up, I really understood the world and how it worked based upon the local community, the local neighborhood, the local church, the people that I was interacting, you know, in real time with. They really uh were vetted by my parents, and there was a lot of control of who could speak into me. And so my whole world was my neighborhood. For Gen Alpha, it's the opposite. The whole world is their neighborhood. Yeah, so the whole world has access to them.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

They are growing up in a global world, whereas uh you know, millennials Gen Z grew up in sort of a connecting world where things began to expand.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yeah, the web would move outward.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Right, but with Gen Alpha, that's their starting point. Yeah, is that that global perspective.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

The whole world always. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

And by the way, it's not even a neutral world, like AI technology is not neutral, it's pushing things to them based upon things that they're already interested in, and that will keep their attention. So it it's a very unfair way to pour content into kids because you're tapping into their vulnerabilities, their addictions, all of those things. Um, and we we did some in our book, we talk about some of these things, but if you look at just the average amount of screen time that kids have um over the course of their lifetime, and you compare that to what do they spend at church, yeah, it's like a 17 to 1. So they're getting 17 times more uh influence from the world that through that phone that's in their hands than they're getting from the church. So of course they're not getting a biblical worldview. They're they're coming into our churches with a more of a syncretic.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

They're getting biblical microdosing.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Yeah. And so, and but they believe it's true.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Because it must be true because I just read it online.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

They think if it's viral, it must be true.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Yeah. If it has a big reach, it must be a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah, to their influences, influencers more than the authorities in their life. And so uh, you know, technology really is forming them. Um, whereas maybe with Gen Z, technology shaped them, it changed them, it rewired their brain. It is running alongside of them, forming them as they go.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Um what is something that we're getting wrong about Gen Alpha? Like what or or I mean again, as someone that loves the idea that we could maybe try to simplify or understand or strategize ministry approaches based on the ages that we're trying to reach, what would be like a caution or maybe something

Biblical Literacy Gaps And Real Suffering

SPEAKER_01 11:30

that like we shouldn't over-generalize or maybe get wrong about Gen Alpha?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Yes. Well, I think one of the things that uh, you know, my background is children's ministry. Yeah. And so I've been watching and I teach on Sunday mornings. And one of the things that I would say to youth ministers is to not assume that kids who are moving up into your ministries know a whole lot about the Bible.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

That's not an indictment against children's ministers. That's more of this caution of they haven't been in church. They're not, they're behind in their spiritual formation.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Behind. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

COVID disrupted some of that too.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

And so as a starting point, you know, you need to understand that their biblical literacy is pretty low.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Okay. There may be some spiritual lag that what you were thinking or hoping for an eighth or ninth grader 10 years ago, five years ago, maybe different for this new crop of seventh or eighth periods.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

They may not even know how to use their Bible.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

I I I would I would offer that. So I serve as a just J High leader for our fifth and sixth grade ministry. And uh, there's some sixth grade boys in that group that I know have grown up in and around the church that I'm like, hey, will you look up the verse? And they go to the front of the table contents and they're like scouring, like they they don't, they don't even have an idea of where it might be. And I'm like, bro, it's John. And they're like, oh, okay. And it's one of those, it's you could tell. And this and and maybe it's just a few symptomatic few, but I I have a feeling that hearing what you're saying, this could be um some of those Bible drill skills that we thought were cheesy back then may be really good today.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Right. And I think some churches are still trying to do it, and what they fight against is prioritizing it with parents. You know, how do we get them uh so I think that's one thing is is to to be aware that they may not be where you think they are.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Um, to remember that they have a global perspective as a starting point.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Okay. Um, and they're what might I say say say a little more specifically a global perspective as a starting point for a youth minister that's teaching to high school, middle school students. Like what would what would be something we should be cognizant of as we're considering that?

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Well, I think that gone are the days that they're going to believe you just because you said so.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Okay. Right. Okay. Uh just because I speak with a mic may not guarantee that that they're receiving it as true.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah, because they've been exposed to all these different worldviews. Okay. Um, all these different ideas. Uh, and so they're constantly being challenged about what they believe. And so for us not to engage that uh in a way to say, hey, here's what the world says, yeah, here's what we believe. Yeah. When we just say, here's what you believe, we believe, we're we're sort of skipping out on preparing them to dialogue. And so, you know, I think also this goes right along with it, is they're well acquainted with a broken world. So as kids, they experienced COVID. Yeah. Uh they they saw death at a at a rate that maybe others haven't.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

They saw fear, they saw loss, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

And so I I think we've had a tendency to market sort of a of um uh easy believism Western world idea. And we haven't really included suffering in that, we haven't included persecution in that. And so they have this really simple faith, which simple faith is good, but the first time it bumps up against something really tragic, really awful, really whatever, they can't figure out how that fits into this sort of weak theology that they've had all the time. And so, you know, helping them reconcile what they see in the world with the hope that God gives us. Um, I think they're less interested in, I think particularly parents maybe are less interested in big fancy buildings with all the bells and whistles, and they're more interested in, well, what are you actually doing outside the church to help this suffering broken world?

SPEAKER_01 15:20

I think that's such a strong statement because the sentiment that a lot of youth ministry folks feel is that kids seem to be hungry to learn, um, which matches up really well with we've seen the world is very broken. And so I need a stronger theology to make sense of this obvious brokenness, decay, divisiveness, polarization. And so if the theology is too trite, it's not going to be true. Right. And so I think the permission to lean into talking openly about suffering to the whole room and not just addressing suffering as it arises, that's a that's a big shift. That is a big shift in euthanasia philosophy. Because usually it's like, let's let's go along and get along until we can't go along or get along. But the idea of introducing suffering in a Wednesday night sermon may be really important. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I think so. I think even you know, lament is a part of our crew.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Chances to grieve.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Chances to grieve. I I think even reflective, more um uh chances for kids to just sit and think and listen to God. We tend to just over program everything, such high energy.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

That's great. We need that, but we also need some low energy for different kinds of kids, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

So I think those are things. I think another thing that I would two more things I would say.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Yeah, come on.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Is that um that we have a blind spot with belonging.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

And that we think just because kids are participating that they feel a sense of belonging. Yeah. And most youth ministers particularly, they walk into a room, the whole room lights up, they feel like they automatically belong. They've forgotten what it means to walk into a room where maybe people are friendly, yeah, but they're not actually asking you how you're doing. They're not actually, they don't know your name, they don't notice you. Um, and I think that belonging, our kids are gonna go wherever they feel like they belong. Yeah, which is why we lose them, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:16

One one of the things that we encourage our friends so much is that you've got to remember what it's like to feel new. I think so many youth ministries that feel stuck in the ways in which they're growing or not growing is because they haven't had new around anymore. You've got to have opportunities and places for folks that are new to know what to do, and for folks that have been there too long to feel new again. That's why I always encourage folks to go visit other churches or to go or other hobbies. I I I love our friends in youth ministry that are like, I don't know how to run, I joined a run club, I'm the slowest one. Awesome. How did they treat you when you didn't fit in? Or, you know, it's for my for my crew, like to go show up at a like a board game shop or something, like go play with new friends and be like, I don't understand this game, how do I play? It's so important to be in situations where you aren't, especially as ministry leaders, where we're like obviously known by everybody. Exactly. We're obviously we obviously belong, we're in charge of it. But to calibrate what we're doing for folks that like don't fit into what we always do is necessary, maybe even more at the generational turn.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

I think so, which fits into the next thing. But I would say this that when when I wana did a a study not too long ago and they asked parents, why do you think your kids have left the church? And a high percentage of them said because they didn't feel like their kids ever felt like they belonged. So parents kind of point to that as well. And kids obviously as well, which leads to the the other thing that I think we could be getting wrong is we could be missing the fact that we also need to connect with parents more.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

That they are um, you know, we we say it a lot, they're the primary disciplers.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

But they maybe haven't been discipled themselves.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah. And they may feel like or discipled uh uh largely at collective church events, not intentionally or relationally.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

They may need some help. Yeah. Um, and I think one of the things that we realize in in in ministry anymore when we talk about age graded is that no, we're not really a children's minister or a student minister, really a family minister.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah, that's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Uh so I think those are and their parents too.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

So the more that you can, you know, become friends and and influence parents, I think the stronger youth ministry you're gonna have.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

It's good. It's

Hope For Gen Alpha And Church

SPEAKER_01 19:30

good. Well, I want to ask you a little bit about um what what gives you hope uh for this generation? I mean, I feel like sometimes, you know, uh younger folks um can illuminate things that maybe we missed. Um so um what are some of the things that we should be looking for as as bright spots or or hopeful encouragement uh about maybe what they'll they'll teach us? What what will the children teach us?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

This is an interesting question. You know, I think millennials, to your credit, one of the things that I always say that I think the first time a millennial's getting credit. That's exactly right. I think that one of the things millennials gave us was um this renewed sense of we need to foster and adopt kids who are hurting. Yeah. Like your generation is the first, one of the first ones that really stepped forward and did that. Gen X, you know, I never thought about that. We were able to have children and I never thought about, well, I could also adopt.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

I could also foster. And so I think there's things that you all brought. You know, I think Gen Z is making us be more authentic, more transparent, yeah, more willing to engage um in in some harder things. Um, they're concerned about the world, right? And so I think Gen Alpha, they they bring to the table some experiences, you know, maybe COVID has helped them learn some things about resilience. Okay. Their parents couldn't fix everything. Yeah. They had to figure out how to have parties as parades and all different things. Um, and I think maybe they will uh push us even further to consider really the needs of the world.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Um, I think that uh they're getting mindful more and more mindful.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I I the resilience thing is something I think is curious. I think for some folks, uh, they would see them as not. And yet I also watch my boys when they have to figure stuff out, they often do.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Uh, you know, I mean, we we take care of them. I feel like we try to parent pretty well and fairly and provide. Yeah. Um, but there's been moments where it's like, you know, I can't help you right now. Yet they seem to figure it out. And so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Well, and I mean, one of the other things I think is positive is is, and and I would give credit to Jonathan Heid, who wrote Anxious Generation, is that we're seeing a real collective movement to say we're gonna we're gonna set phones aside in schools at least. Yeah. Um, I would love to see that go to churches too. Um, and so I think that. You know, it it sometimes it has to get pretty dark before it can start to turn pretty light. And so I think Gen Z parents who will be parenting beta and we'll have some of the alpha, they know what it's like to grow up in that emptiness and loneliness and isolation. Yeah. And so wouldn't it be amazing if they would be the ones to push push back into church to lean back to belonging?

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Because the church is set up to offer what they really need.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Well, that's so for for our friend Jonathan Heights stuff. I everything that he's advocating for sounds like what youth group could be.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I mean, social circles for connectivity and warmth, uh, the opportunity to to learn, know, fail, do. I'm like, my man, this this youth group. Like it's basically youth group. Yeah. You know this.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

He's an atheist.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

And so I always say that when I use, I say, look, this is a secular right. As a matter of fact, he's an atheist.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

The guy that who's not in our business sees our work.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

He does.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

I mean, come on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Well, and you probably remember reading that he talks about faith and he talks about the importance of synchronous religious rituals for kids.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

You know, that can look like a lot of different things, but it's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Well, especially in an asynchronous time. Like everything, everything for so many of our kids is I'll respond when I'm ready. But the idea that we are all in this present moment together, yeah. Powerful.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

I mean, it it it definitely it's amazing how much he gets right.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Um, and so I think I would encourage, I'm sure most student pastors have read that. Um, but we can really provide some of those things. And so perhaps we're already seeing that with attendance trends. Yeah. You know, there's some folks that are saying Gen Z is returning back to church.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

So I have a lot of hope for that. And I always have hope because the gospel is good for all generations.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

It is, it is.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

So we just have to really wrap our brains about around what is different about this generation and sort of step into some of their strengths. I think sometimes we can be critical of their strengths or critical of them because they're not like us.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

But you know, uh, we need them to question us because the truth can be questioned.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

The truth is is stronger than the questions.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Uh and it and the truth is stronger than the questions. And if it's not, then that we can shave those edges off because they were not true.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Okay, so we love the book. Uh it's helpful in both structure, format, and language, but the gospel section is so very important in the ways in which it calls us back to what is true.

Discipleship That Moves From Talk To Dialogue

SPEAKER_01 24:30

What are some of the things for discipleship efforts or aims that you would want youth ministers to consider for this rising generation? Something that we should be doing, practicing. Uh is there a spiritual muscle that we should be training?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Well, I think it all goes back to relationships. Um student ministers are great at relationships, they're great on the stage, they're great at care charisma and those types of things. But if we really want to see maturity, we have to also think small.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

We have to also uh figure out how is it that we can get adults to speak into the lives of kids for the long haul.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Um because as great as youth ministers are, they can't disciple a hundred kids.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right, that's right. If he picked 12, you should pick a number smaller. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

So I think in some ways it's almost a return to some of those things that we have always known have been important.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

But for whatever reason, we've turned to large group events to really be the uh the most important thing in our ministries, and really I think the most important thing we can do is to sit around, look kids in the eye, help them look us in the eye. Yeah. Uh let them ask questions, have more dialogue than just monologue. They don't need us for information. Yeah, giving them a chance to articulate their faith um in a in an environment where it's safe.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Where it's safe to to to make a mistake in what you say, it's safe to be wrong in what you say and then correct it, where it's just a little more uh of an open dialogue than just putting information into them.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

All right, one more question for you. You named it a little bit about large groups, but I want to give you the open forum. Youth ministry is often marked by uh innovation. So give us permission. What's something we should start, stop, or change? Oh, wow. To do a better job of reaching Gen Alpha.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Um, I kind of already alluded to some of it. Um, just stop talking at them and start dialoguing.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Start dialoguing with them, yeah. Yeah, the move from monologue to dialogue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

This is might be a little bit sensitive, but I think it's I think it's been a movement that's been in in flux for a while and moving towards this. But um stop siloing yourself and creating your own kingdom.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Uh, and really lock arms with all next gen people in your in your church.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Uh I think that's why Shane.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Thread the needle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Shane and I wrote the book together because we're very different. I my background's children's. His obviously is an incredible youth guy. And so this idea that we could all be on the same page.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

That we could all sort of work together, um, and not not that we ever meant to work against each other, but that we never really considered each other equal partners, right? Yeah. And so um doing that, um, you know, I think we need to, this sounds harsh, but stop just entertaining kids and start empowering them.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Uh, one of the things that that kids will lock into is when they feel not only that they feel belong, they belong, but they also feel needed.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Someone needs me to be there because I've got to do this. And helping them discover their spiritual gifts and beginning to serve. Yeah. The Bible's full of of examples of young people that that God used. Um, stop reinforcing their digital dependency by yeah, you know, this is another one that's hard, but but maybe we need to start putting away those phones, even as leaders in as spiritual practice.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Yeah, yeah. Paper models, paper journals, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Because um as good as a Bible is on a phone, it's also tempting to be very, very distracting.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

And so I I think that phones in general would be helpful. Uh, you know, in his book, uh Jonathan Haid quotes somebody, I believe it's Sherry Turkle. It says, We're forever elsewhere.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

And so how do we help people be right where they're at? Yes. Help our kids be right where they're at, giving them time. Uh, you know, in children's administration, I'd say giving them time to play. Actually, I think play is good for teenagers too.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

It may look a little different, but but the but the but the open, the open range, the free range. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

To laugh together and to learn together and to do those types of things. I think, you know, small groups becoming the focus, going deeper, yeah. Um, not thinking that we're the source of everything.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

And, you know, helping them learn how to have real conversations with real people.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yeah. Uh

Practical Starts Stops And The Book

SPEAKER_01 29:10

it's uh it's a challenge. It's a challenge and a lost art, a chance to be reclaimed. So well, Dr. Shelley, thank you so much. The book is reaching Generation Alpha. Check it out. Uh, it's been invaluable already. We're excited to see where it goes. Thanks for watching. And we'll see you back in a little bit. We'll see you all back next week.