How To Build A Sustainable Youth Ministry w/ Dr. Jody Dean

What if the biggest threat to your youth ministry isn't a lack of volunteers, budget, or attendance... but your own exhaustion?

In this episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast, Zac Workun sits down with Dr. Jody Dean (New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary) for an honest conversation about burnout, sustainability, and staying faithful for the long haul. Drawing from decades of ministry, mentoring, and leadership development, Dr. Dean shares practical wisdom for youth pastors who love student ministry but feel like they're running on empty. 

Together they unpack:

• Why so many youth pastors quietly wonder if they have "one more year" left.
• The healthy rhythms and time management practices that prevent burnout.
• A simple four-season reset framework to replenish your soul before you hit the wall.
• Why friendship and accountability are essential—not optional—for ministry longevity.
• How to measure ministry success without becoming enslaved to attendance numbers.
• The four foundational systems every sustainable youth ministry needs.
• The warning signs that weariness is becoming burnout.
• Why faithfulness matters more than chasing ministry success.

Whether you're fresh off summer camp, gearing up for another ministry season, or simply feeling tired, this conversation is a timely reminder that God has called you to more than surviving ministry—He has called you to endure with joy.

Your labor is not in vain.

Transcript

Welcome From SBC

Zac Workun 0:06

Hey, we're back with another episode of the Youth Ministry Booster Podcast live at SBC. Uh hanging out with our summer seminary series. All of our favorite professors here. I I just I love having friends, Dr. Dean. It's just nice. It's just nice having friends. It is. And we got a lot of, it feels like extended family, and I love seeing our professor friends here because we all just like standing around. We're just all hanging around, just talking boots. Family reunion. Talking to people. So uh, ladies and gentlemen, we got Dr. Jody Dean with us from New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, professor of Christian education. You think we're talking about one thing, but we're really talking about is the sacred arts of upholstery.

Sabbatical Hobbies And Leatherwork

Zac Workun 0:48

Okay, so you're about to go on sabbatical. Thank you for giving us the exit interview before your seven-month departure where you go off the grid. Yeah. Fishing, leather work, writing, tell us more. Like we can only let us live your dream of having seven months off to refinish Bibles and fish. Jody, my man.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Well, I'm gonna be doing research in student industry. All right, all right, yeah. I'm looking at a Bible.

Zac Workun 1:13

Coding it with a little bit of writing, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Sure. A little Bible handbook for teenagers, that kind of stuff. Simple stuff. But you need some hobbies. Okay.

Zac Workun 1:22

And so we love a good hobby. Ministers need hobbies.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

My son's on the high school golf team, so we're playing golf. Okay. And then is he better than you? Yeah, uh, he's getting there. Okay. Some holes he's better than me, and some holes I'm better than him. So we love it. We love it. So uh we are uh doing that father-son time fishing, but yes, working with leather uh just became a hobby. I wanted to recraft some of my Bibles, my dad's Bible before he died, and so just some neat things.

Zac Workun 1:52

How long how long did he have it? What what's what's the what's the tenure of that?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

It's just high school graduation Bible. Wow, okay. So he's been gone a lot of years now. Yeah, and so I just there were some things that meant a lot to me. I didn't want to just ship off to somebody. Of course. And so, since I had worked an up postery at one point uh with family, I just was like, I think I could figure this out. Okay. And with YouTube, most things you could figure out.

Zac Workun 2:16

High school, high school learnings and YouTube. That's it. That's it. We got it, we got it. That's right. So is that is that handiwork? Is that is that a commercial sewing machine work? Like when you're re-stitching and fixing, like what are the tools required?

SPEAKER_02 2:28

So I have a set of needles for different types of fabric that I can hand stitch. Okay, and I'll also have a commercial machine for leather and denim that will sew it up, dude. Do those things as well. So I've started experimenting with an iPad sleeve or a Mac sleeve, or something. Yeah, just doing all those little things, just getting my skill level up.

Picking The Right Bible Leather

Zac Workun 2:52

So I I I got a big question. This may be a hot take for folks.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Okay.

Zac Workun 2:56

Goat skin versus calf skin for Bible covers.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Goat skin.

Zac Workun 2:59

Goat skin, heard it here. Why why goat over calf?

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Softness.

Zac Workun 3:03

Soft, but a goat always feels a little bit rougher.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Uh the well, once it's refined leather, okay. The calf skin is thicker usually. Okay, but the goat skin is a thinner leather and softer, so it holds open in my hand to pre-two tease.

Zac Workun 3:17

Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

So for me, durability, calf.

Zac Workun 3:21

Calf, calf forever, goat for supple.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Yeah.

Zac Workun 3:23

Okay. I love that the last that's of the lay-flat quality. It matters, okay. How it sits in your hand matters. It does. Well, I I I have I have two Bibles at home that I treasure. Uh, one that I love on a desk and one that I love to hold in my hand to preach from.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

That lambskin's my favorite.

Zac Workun 3:42

Lamb skin? Okay. Well, is it just a more premium quality?

SPEAKER_02 3:47

It's sheep, right?

Zac Workun 3:48

Yeah. It's just, hey, uh, you know, uh, sometimes it takes one to know one. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

It feels more spiritual. That's right.

Zac Workun 3:57

It's it's lambskin's in the word. That's right. But rather be a lamb than a goat, you know. Biblically speaking. That's right.

Why Youth Pastors Feel Worn Down

Zac Workun 4:04

Well, Pastor, uh, we're here to talk about the ways in which you have professored many in student ministry. Um, and I think for a lot of folks that have had you as a professor and a friend, um, have sought counsel in a lot of ways. Because if I know it to be true, especially in the summertime, it feels like for youth ministry, sometimes we're barely hanging on. Right. What why why is that why is a statement like that something that could be thrown out and people would really resonate? Why why do more youth pastors feel like they're barely hanging on than thriving?

SPEAKER_02 4:38

I was camp pastor for a camp last week, and those casual conversations with a lot of guys that are like, I don't know that I'll be doing this by next time.

Zac Workun 4:46

I may not see you next year. Like, what why is that a refrain?

SPEAKER_02 4:49

And so, I mean, it just grabs at your heart. And for them, it was not because I'm gonna be pastoring. It's not because I think I'm gonna take another church, it's because I don't know if I got another year in me. And so um I keep encountering guys, it just seems like their well is a little more shallow. Yeah, it's just been depleted.

Zac Workun 5:10

Is is it is it a depleted, is it a capacity? Like what why why are why are more than not so dry?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

I think you have to look at a holistic what we're all dealing with in life.

Zac Workun 5:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

So, I mean, you've got family, you've got uh different pressures in ministry, uh, different family pressures from all the students' families. And so is all these different pieces in South Louisiana we'd call it a gumbo, right? Oh, okay. You got all these different ingredients, yeah, yeah.

Zac Workun 5:39

And as you can sometimes more spice than nice, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

I don't see like a silver bullet to one issue. Yeah. It's just like all these ingredients of just hanging heavy, the weight of dealing with students and what they're going through, dealing with families, the different tensions in the church. Yeah. It's uh I the staying power of do I just it's waning. Can I keep doing it? The weariness is the word that I just resonate with.

Zac Workun 6:08

It is it something because this this is one of the questions I definitely wanted to ask you. Is there something uh that comes with age? Is this something that seems to be more true for folks of a certain age or of a certain tenure? Uh, or is it just kind of true across the board, whether you're 25, 35, 45, 5 years, 10 years in, or does it seem to be more uh aggressive for some than others?

SPEAKER_02 6:33

You see, you seem to see more guys just talking about it overall. Okay, okay.

Zac Workun 6:38

And so that seems to be a true trend from your seat as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Yeah, okay. And and it's just a tension. Yeah. We we all live with that. I think the enemy likes to tell us maybe we're not good enough, or or maybe we're not resonating well enough with the students, or um there are those kind of exterior tensions, but I I just keep encouraging people stay after it. Okay, okay. It's not that they don't love student ministry. That's right, that's right. And it's not that they don't love students, it's just that capacity of how much can I carry?

Zac Workun 7:14

Can carry and give.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

And so uh I've been looking for ways to just pour in, yeah, lean in. Yeah, I can only say I'm praying for you. So many conferences. Yeah, and it really carry weight to help them.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

It's like, thank you for that, yeah. But that really doesn't help me with my capacity space.

Zac Workun 7:35

Well, I was gonna ask, um, because you have met many and and mentored many, is there something that folks just aren't learning learning soon enough or fast enough for those that have experienced longevity, or for those that don't feel the weariness as heavily, is there something that they've learned that maybe you would encourage others to learn, or is there a missing piece?

Healthy Rhythms And Time Management

SPEAKER_02 7:58

I got two things.

Zac Workun 7:59

We'll take two.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Two takes learning a good healthy rhythm.

Zac Workun 8:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Of every week's gonna look a little different, but I need some healthy rhythms established that are true to my own spiritual f uh filling, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Zac Workun 8:18

Instead of planning everybody else's journey, we have to plan our own.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

I live in one retreat to the next camp, to the next event. Yes. Um looking for all those things. It's just finding a healthy life rhythm. Yeah. Whether you're a dad, whether you're single, whether you're married with no kids, just a healthy life rhythm for you with hobbies and community.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Uh finding a group of guys that you're accountable doing life with, or a group of ladies.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

And so um doing ministry with a healthy rhythm.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

And then the second to go with that is then time management to make sure those rhythms happen.

Zac Workun 8:57

That that seems to be um, and again, if you're hearing this in the middle of the road on the way to camp or in the middle of a big activity, it's harder to hear. But there is something about the management of time because it's the one resource that affects all of us big church, small church, big budget, small budget. That's right. 40 volunteers, four volunteers. We all have the same amount of time.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

That's right. It's a baseline. That's it. And you see healthy, effective leaders that have done well with their rhythm and time management. And then you see the unhealthy are people that feel less. Not saying they're ineffective, yeah, less effective.

Zac Workun 9:33

Less effective, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

That are getting toward burnout or weariness. Yes. And here you're going, you need a reset.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

And if you'll take the moment, I believe, to reset.

Zac Workun 9:45

Let's talk, let's talk about give us a reset. Because I think for some folks are coming out of summer into fall. Is the reset a day, a week? I mean, you're taking a sabbatical that only comes every seven years. Right. But if I've got seven heavy weeks of summer, what's a good summer reset?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

I live

Four Seasonal Resets That Refill You

SPEAKER_02 9:59

in four seasons of reset. Okay. So uh your seasons might be hockey, baseball, football, uh, those kind of seasons, but I live in a in a fall, winter, spring, summer. Summer, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I try to take at least a Sabbath after a heavy summer to reset.

Zac Workun 10:21

Which which kind of looks like give us some parameters.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

That's uh being out in God's creation. Okay. Because I'm outside, not inside. I love the outdoors. Yeah. So for me, it's being out, uh, usually in in nature with water, and I am journaling, I'm praying, uh, kind of modeling what uh following after Jesus, where he would withdraw from the crowd and be alone with the Father in prayer, just looking for that communion time with the Lord, and then looking at, hey, how did that season go? What are some things we did well? What are some things that didn't go into plan? What are what were some unexpected things? And then so as I I I reflect on those things, I'm also looking at what can I do this next season? What can I do to be uh uh more effective? Okay, how can I establish a better rhythm? Yeah, what do I need to work on in myself? How did it go with family? How did it go in in ministry? Yeah, and then I take another time on the end of fall. And so in student ministry, it works really well because you have a heavy summer season. Yep. You might have a fall retreat, a fall focus, kickoff, an emphasis, right? You've got new students coming in as you promote grades. Yep. It's a transition, so it's good to take a fall reset and just see how did this go. Then winter, you might have D now, you might have another winter type retreat, but there's another season. And our curriculum kind of works in season. It does, it does. And so there are a lot of great things about looking for four moments in your year to just say, I need a Sabbath, I need a reset.

Zac Workun 11:59

Well, to calendar them, to plan them, and to have a what I'm I love hearing you say is that it's not just I had the day off, but there was a plan for the day that was both refilling and retrospective. It's gotta get turned off. It's got to, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

And and another aspect to that that I would just say is I try to make one of those four with some guys. I'm doing life with.

Zac Workun 12:26

So not solo, but just some some company. I I need some solo. Need to help, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

But it'd be like, hey, I'm gonna phone two or three guys and say, hey, let's take a day and spend some time praying, uh fishing, golfing, being, yeah, yeah. And just spend some time doing life. Love it. I've always had a group of guys I do lunch with every week. Yeah. But um, that's just built into my rhythm, by the way. I'm gonna eat a few meals a week.

Zac Workun 12:50

Is there a certain day a day a week that you that you're always lunching with them?

SPEAKER_02 12:54

It just uh it just depends on the week. Okay. But there's always a lunch planned. That's so good. And um, and over the years it's just been effective for me. Yeah, but as of late, I've needed those even more, those four seasons of just hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a moment and I'm gonna re replenish, recharge, uh, restore.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Uh, so we can get after it. It's good. It's good.

Defining Success For Long-Term Ministry

Zac Workun 13:25

So well, one of the tensions I wanted to ask you about, I know that you've authored on the topic. You work with our friend Ken Braddy on the topic, the the management and administration of the ministry, or in in some conversations, uh the tension between success and sustainability. Because I think we talked about that as a leader, but for the ministry, what are the rhythm practice or signposts for not just a hopefully successful ministry, but a sustainable youth ministry? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

You know, you in order to assess it, you gotta first establish what is it says.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

So define it. Sometimes we're dealing with stakeholders in our student ministry that maybe are assessing it for the wrong things.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Uh, and so if we start out with what are the things we're going to measure, what are the things we are going to assess, I believe that starts us out on the right path. So when uh when we do take moments for assessment to see how we're doing, yeah, then we actually have healthy measures and they're comparative. Yeah. So I'm not just looking at did I have more at this event than the last one? Or did we have more this year than last year? We're not looking at metrics of that we normally look at for assessment of features.

Zac Workun 14:45

That that that that that that two two-point binary A B of this week to last week, that's far too small and too limited. Right. And then we just start living week to week or year to year or camp to camp. And that's that's not actual success, that's just quick comparison.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

That's right. And so instead of just looking at let's replicate last year's calendar this year.

Zac Workun 15:08

Yeah. Oh plus 10%. Yeah. And so whatever we did last year, plus 10%. Yeah. But everybody's got a churn.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Yeah. So that's what's hard when I start looking at numbers. Is I got first got to know, okay, about how many families moved for work in my church.

Zac Workun 15:25

Yeah. So I'm how many kids graduated.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Right. So if I'm losing a few every year to relocation and I'm losing a whole grade, yeah. Is the grade coming in as large?

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

That's what I'm losing. So you might have a net game one year because it's just a large upgrade group.

Zac Workun 15:42

Congrats.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Yeah. Congrats. But that also means in a few years you're going to be down.

Zac Workun 15:48

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

And you've just been as faithful. Yeah, right. You've been as steady. You feel you feel the loss, and yet you have been just as consistent. So that holistic snapshot is so key, Zach. Yeah. And um, and as you begin to measure what is working, we're seeing generations not lasting 15, 20 years. So the the curve, the move might be even the six, seven years you got with students, you might have to adapt. Yeah. Uh, especially in the world of AI. Yeah. Uh you might be having to make some small minor adjustments to be as effective. Yeah. And so that assessment, you might have to do some micro assessments. Yeah. Um, where you might be assessing on the year or on the three, you might have to do some micro assessments based on the rapid change of our culture.

Zac Workun 16:39

Absolutely.

Four Systems Every Ministry Needs

Zac Workun 16:40

Absolutely. I know there's a word in ministry that some folks either love or disdain. Uh but what what are some systems in ministry that youth ministers must have in place? Uh maybe they do, maybe they don't, but from your perspective uh of both uh educating and training ministry leaders for a youth ministry leader, large church, small church, what are the systems check that you'd put on them? If they were gonna fly the ministry plane, what are the all systems go that must be in place?

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Uh I love a good calendar system.

Zac Workun 17:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

So it's shared, okay, and we know what's going on.

Zac Workun 17:20

So a calendar that's shareable and viewable and pretty like locked in. Do you feel like a lot of folks a little too soft in the calendars and things change too often?

SPEAKER_02 17:30

You're probably planning vacation a year out. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It'd be good to know camp a year out.

Zac Workun 17:35

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

It'd kind of be good to know the major dates that you don't want my family booking over.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Uh it's also good beyond calendar, is I I need a good system of keeping up with people. Okay.

Zac Workun 17:48

And and students don't always like my inbox, just when the texts come in, I just text them back.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

No, we we need a we need an information system that just helps.

Zac Workun 17:58

Well, that's me. I'm always available. No, okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Maybe so. But that information system just helps me. If I need to know your family name, yeah, yeah. If I need to know your parents' name, or you're coming with grandma. Yeah. Yeah.

Zac Workun 18:14

Who's who's this man that dropped this girl off? Well, that's your uncle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Or you're coming along. Yeah, yeah. I'm just able to have that system with me. Yeah. Even at camp. Yeah. Uh, I'm able to have that system with me, even if I'm at school having lunch with students. Yeah.

Zac Workun 18:28

And not just me, but other leaders too.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Other leaders. And so we're we're able to keep up with people and and how they connect with us as a church and how they connect with others.

Zac Workun 18:38

See, that's that's so good because I think there's a lot of ministry leaders that are highly relational, but they have no system for it. So there's no receipts on all that good relational work. There are coffees that are had that are not documented anywhere. Right. There were there were leaders that were wanting to hear about follow-up with various students, and they're no centralized place. Right. And you may be thinking, well, that's too expensive. Well, it's very simple to do even just a Google spreadsheet with just having notes and names for the folks in your ministry. So it's got to happen.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

There's three systems outside of calendar.

Zac Workun 19:11

The calendar?

SPEAKER_02 19:12

People. People's your second one. Property is your third. Property. And that's probably a system your church has that you've got to work with.

Zac Workun 19:19

We've got to work in, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Maybe it's working with cleaning the building or setting up space.

Zac Workun 19:25

Utilizing this room or that room if it's shared space.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

And it might be your church doesn't really have that. And student ministry is gonna need to be the driver of setting up a system of how we use our space.

Zac Workun 19:36

And if there's anybody using space shared space, it's it's the youth ministry. That's right. That's right. There's anybody getting blamed for shared space. It's the youth. It's the youth ministry.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

And that system might even involve transportation.

Zac Workun 19:47

Okay, fair.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

And so, yeah, and then the last one is is finances. Okay.

Zac Workun 19:54

Those fiscal the budget, the monies, not just what was assigned, but how it was spent.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Right. So those four are probably how you also get disqualified for ministry. Fair. You mismanage money. Yeah. You mismanage the property. Uh, you mismanage people or supposed to be when you're supposed to be a good thing. That's right, that's right. That's right. And so I think those four are just helpful without making it a b administrative burden.

Zac Workun 20:20

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Those four are just natural.

Zac Workun 20:23

Key documents, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

No one that's an adult in our churches, they all live with those type systems. Yes. The school system has a calendar, they have a people process of keeping up with people. They know who to call.

Zac Workun 20:35

Every business person at your church has a budget they have to stay on top of.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

That's right. So we're not doing anything that's not unreasonable. Yep, that's right, that's right. And so we're just um making those things transparent and available.

Zac Workun 20:49

The right kind of stewardship that, again, it they're all gonna look a little different, but they've got to look right because that is the ways in which it is part of the work beyond just the ways in which we decide it, because you are invested and involved in this part of the system of the church. Like that, uh that you you talked about it. Some of these systems may have been decided or designed for you, and to live into those is is key, I think, for our own mental bandwidth as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

And as we're talking about systems, I think that uh Zach can go back to us talking too about issues causing student ministers to feel weary because my rhythm and my time management. Yeah, if I have good systems, my time management's better. Yeah, if I have good systems, it it goes all the way to the money.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

So you just kind of know where you are with people, you know where you are, what's my workflow look like this week. And so all those things coming together to really help you, yeah, yeah. Even though it may take a little bit of effort to get those things running.

Burnout Signs You Should Not Ignore

Zac Workun 21:54

Yeah. Well, I had a couple more questions for you. One relates to that weariness, uh, for folks listening. If there was just a man for your experience, if you were gonna collect or aggregate, what are some of those signs of weariness to burnout? Not just I had a long day or I'm obviously tired after camp or mission trip. Okay. But what are some of those deeper signs that like in a conversation with a youth minister at camp?

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Okay.

Zac Workun 22:21

You're like, man, I think this is more than just a long Wednesday. Sure. What are some of those things that you would name? Because we're often the worst or the last to see our own tiredness. So what would you look out for for a brother or a sister in the faith? They're like, man, I think you're actually headed on a road to burnout.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

I shared this with somebody recently who we were talking, and I I just told him if it's not life-giving to you and it used to be.

Zac Workun 22:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Then I would think you might be close to burnout.

Zac Workun 22:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

So, like going into camp, it's dreaded. You're dreading camp, but not delighting and forward to it. Okay. You're dreading getting ready for your midweek time with students every week.

Zac Workun 23:04

And you used to you're putting off the Wednesday prep because you're like, I just don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

And you might be prone to even let AI tell you what to do as opposed to doing it yourself, praying and developing it yourself. You might be prone to just Googling or AI just borrowing notes. Yeah, yeah. So the things in student ministry that were life-giving that got you into it, that were like, man, I I I'm just loving student ministry. Yeah. If those things have become a burden to you, um if if the church has become a drag, yeah, like church used to be life-giving.

Zac Workun 23:42

Showing up on Sundays and Wednesdays or whatever just exhaust you.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

And now it's like, I'm just not sure I want to do this. And um, and so I ask guys, is this a church you would be part of if you were not on staff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it did the church change or did you? Okay. Is my follow-up change?

Zac Workun 24:01

Okay, okay. Take note, take note. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

So those are two signs to where I go, you might have changed. Yeah. Or the ministry might have changed, but you've got to go back and go, why is it, why is my love not what it used to be? Because we know in marriage, yeah, uh, there are seasons in a marriage. So we can have seasons in ministry.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

There are some seasons that are stressful. Yeah. And there are some seasons we can work through a hard time. And there are some times to where it's like, man, this is incredible. Yes, yes. And so it might be you're in one of those more difficult seasons of ministry. So let's find a way for you to navigate that. That's where having some brothers, yeah, uh, that you meet with, you do life with, uh, can kind of help you with that.

Zac Workun 24:50

Yeah. It it often takes someone outside yourself to really see yourself. Do you feel like that's one of the missing pieces for most kind of weary youth pastors? Is they often withdrawn and without friends often?

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Yeah, we can sometimes get lonely. Yeah. Uh we because if we don't have that zeal, we kind of don't want to spend time with people.

Zac Workun 25:12

We're not fighting for the friends, fighting for the openness.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

And I would just invite those listening to just consider is God moving your heart to a different area of ministry? Okay. Maybe it's missions.

Zac Workun 25:25

Asking a fair question that way.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Maybe it is pastoring. Maybe it uh is discipleship. Um, or maybe God's just helping you understand why you're really called to student ministry. Yeah, yeah. I doubt he's uncalling you from anything.

Zac Workun 25:40

That and I think that's such an important word to make sure to not confuse the call and the assignment. I think for so many people, uh the the work becomes frustrating, therefore I no longer want to do the thing that I felt called to. Yeah, when it may just be a trouble with the assignment or a trouble in a season and not the actual, this is the thing that God has stirred in my

Mentoring Others To Stay Faithful

Zac Workun 26:06

spirit to do.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

And the other thing with that is I found when I'm having a bad moment, if I find a guy to invest in, yeah, to mentor, yeah, uh Paul Timothy kind of relationship where I'm entrusting life to you, yeah, um, that replenishes me.

Zac Workun 26:24

Yes, yes. So there's getting back to somebody else in ministry, like ironically pouring out uh not just in the work, but to another minister, yes, is a beautiful thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

And we have a youth minister deficit.

Zac Workun 26:38

Yes, we do. And they they need you. They they need you.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

So we need youth ministers calling out youth ministers. Yes, yes, you know, so calling out the cult, yeah. It's one thing to say that for church planning and pastoring, but I'm saying let's do it for youth ministry too. So good. Because we need more youth leaders, more youth ministers. And so don't let this be a season that you drop out on us, yeah, but be a season where you help us develop more.

Zac Workun 27:03

That's good. That's good. Well, I was gonna ask you, because you work with a lot of them, when you look back over the decades of serving and doing, what do you wish more youth pastors understood about the difference between being useful to God and being faithful to God? Because I think sometimes we feel like we've got no use left to give. Right. That maybe we're done. And so, what would be a word of encouragement that way?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Long obedience in the same direction's never been a bad thing. Peterson liked to say that. Yeah, yeah. And uh I think sometimes in student ministry we see ourselves as I'm too old for this, or I've aged out of this. Yeah, and we don't age out of calling.

Zac Workun 27:43

Just because you're tired of it doesn't mean you're tired from it.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Right. And I've seen people in their 70s faithfully teach, faithfully minister, faithfully pour into. Yeah. So it's a matter of having not lost your focus, but realizing there's always another guy that needs to be invested in. There's always another lady. Uh in these young people, these students need to be invested in. Yeah. And if you've got the ability to invest in another generation, that's what we've been doing since the early church. That's what we need. One generation giving the gospel to another. Absolutely. And so, as disciples, we gotta train up another generation to come alongside and pass that baton. The bad thing is we're trying to do the handoff sometimes too early. Yeah, yeah. And that means, oh, I'm in my 50s, I'm an empty nester. I did it for my kids, but I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Or I I did it over here. So my wife enjoys student ministry. We are still in it, we still invest in it. Uh, we chaperone, we we serve, we go, and uh, I just love being around students. Uh good. I I was standing at camp last week going, I'm so excited to see what this generation does for Christ. Yes. Students were being called to ministry, students were getting saved, ministers were being encouraged, and it was just so great to look at the big picture and go, We've got work to do. Yeah. And this generation needs us. Yeah.

Zac Workun 29:13

So

Steadfast And Immovable Closing Charge

Zac Workun 29:14

good. Well, Dr. Dean, we're in a season of summer for some of our ministers. Before you head off to sabbatical, would you give a word of encouragement to a youth pastor that maybe is feeling weary in a way in which they could be encouraged in this season?

SPEAKER_02 29:27

My life verse is 1 Corinthians 15, 58. And it says, Brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain. So let's just think about that for just a moment. How will you be steadfast in your walk with the Lord and in the work he has called you to? How are you going to be immovable to stay on the straight path, not veering to the left or to the right, but being an immovable example for students to know that following the Lord for all your days is the direction we're called? And not only that, to abound in this work, to abound in our walk with the Lord, to abound in our relationships, to abound in the ministry of the church. And I just pray that your people find you steadfast, immovable, and abounding. And you know that from the Lord, he says this labor's not in vain. So you your work is making a difference whether you see it today or whether this year feels less than last year. The labor's not in vain, and the work is needed and ongoing. So keep after it.

Zac Workun 30:31

Amen. Amen. Well, guys, thank you so much for listening. Jody, thank you so much, my friend. Time with you is always so good. So we'll see you back next week.