Cities and communities have their own sound markers, as Dr. Kenya Williams points out. Dr. Williams is an urban planner, an acoustic ecologist, and an advisor to Quiet Parks International. He founded his company, "Hush Soundscape Planning & Design," in 2012.
In episode 22 of Soundproofist, Dr. Williams shares his journey from making mixtapes and producing music to becoming an urban planner and soundscape expert. He shares his ideas on how to approach noise mediation in diverse communities so that noise ordinances aren't weaponized by one group against another. And he gives examples on how to put "sound first" in project planning.
Cities and communities have their own sound markers, as Dr. Kenya Williams points out. Dr. Williams is an urban planner, an acoustic ecologist, and an advisor to Quiet Parks International. He founded his company, "Hush Soundscape Planning & Design," in 2012.
In episode 22 of Soundproofist, Dr. Williams shares his journey from making mixtapes and producing music to becoming an urban planner and soundscape expert. He shares his ideas on how to approach noise mediation in diverse communities so that noise ordinances aren't weaponized by one group against another. And he gives examples on how to put "sound first" in project planning.
Cary (00:03):
Hey everybody. This is episode 22 of Soundproofist, and my name is Cary.
Phill (00:11):
And this is Phill.
Cary (00:12):
Today, we're talking with Dr. Kenya Williams, an acoustic ecologist, urban planner, advisor to Quiet Parks International and founder of Hush Soundscape Planning and Design. I was really interested in talking with Dr. Williams because I've read some of his work online. And I was intrigued because he's both an environmentalist and an urbanist. I also wanted to discuss his opinions about noise ordinance enforcement and how it impacts some communities more than others, or might not be effective. So I'm curious, what got you interested in soundscape work?
Kenya (00:55):
You know, since I was a child, I was always fascinated by sound. I have to say being a small child, having a family that listened to a lot of music and not having any restrictions to engage with equipment. I think that probably was the initial start. And what I mean by that was knowing where the records were and memorizing, you know, the pictures on the album covers or the actual labels of the vinyl and the mechanics of the old stereo players. And putting the record down the arm, the record, dropping the needle, popping on, you know, while my family, you know, cooked dinner, hung out, I'm probably around 4, 5, 6 years old and they just let me go at it. You know, there was never any "don't touch that." And I think that just kept building into finding other gadgets, whether they were tape recorders and recording the sound and walking around on the neighborhood or the backyard, recording things and trying to mix those things and figuring out ways.
Kenya (02:12):
And then, you know, with the cassette tapes and making mixtapes for friends and trying to figure out how do you mix multiple sources of sound together, four tracks or things like that, you know, as things that a child or a young teen would have access to -- no super huge studio recordings or anything of that nature at that time. And I think finding those mentors and friends of the family who were involved in that work also, so whether it was recordings, recording studios, musicians, you know, we had family friends who were part owners of radio stations. And just having that permission to just go that way and do those things and be around that gear. And so I think that was a fascination with sound and that was an original fascination with recording sound and music and things of that nature.
Kenya (03:11):
And I think that evolved into actual music production. But I think things took a turn really with choice of music, listening to ambient music, listening to environmental sounds and understanding just that appreciation of capturing those moments. And I know like I couldn't replicate that, so this is what I recorded today and, and I wanna go listen to it and then finding comfort in certain cool sounds of being at a creek and saying, "oh, you know, I captured this frog, and I'm gonna play this frog sound really loud, then I'm gonna manipulate this frog sound now." So that experimentation started really early, and I went to film school, went to study video and filmmaking at the Savannah College of Art and Design, but I didn't go to make movies <laugh>. I actually wanted to do sound for film, and that was the thing of whether it was fully, whether it was just really figuring it out, like how do I design sound based on composing it, but not in that traditional sense of composition of writing notes down and things like that.
Kenya (04:32):
It's just like, I want to create atmospheres. I want to create different types of ambiances. That was always this driving factor. And once I did that, working, still working in that industry a little bit, and then having the thought of saying there's these, the term at the time, weird music or experimental music and all these things, you know, ambient music, industrial music. And always been that oddball and know that very small group of folks who were into it. So after college, after working a little bit, I started a small record label and what I found was through that work, it was more, so people coming to me for production, not necessarily producing music, you know, that was a thing that was a given, but production. Just that shift from being successful in the sound design and the production aspect and moving to Portland, Oregon. I've been in Portland about 20 years. And just starting to figure out what else could I do as far as from a business, you know, and learning more about business.
Kenya (05:47):
So the strange thing that happened was I said, "okay, I've been running a business and I don't know anything about business, so I'm gonna go get an MBA". And I started MBA program, applying to the MBA program. So I started taking these prerequisites and I took a class called Intro to Urban Planning. And, you know, it was just an elective. I didn't know anything about urban planners, didn't know anything about urban city planning, urban planning. I knew someone did it, but didn't know the functions of what was going on there. I understood more about architecture, landscape architecture, than urban planning. So I take this class and I'm fascinated about cities and the history of cities. And I heard so much about urban planners. They kind of put the ethics into citymaking. We talked about pollution and you know, how cities were just dirty <laugh> and very infrastructure focused.
Kenya (06:46):
So I can't remember the assignment, but having this sound/music background and trying to merge sound music background -- and that's a constant theme in my life -- with urban planning. I thought of this whole proposal of saying, "wait a minute, I wanna build an amphitheater for at-risk youth." And I started thinking about like cities and places that I lived and how music and sound was this big influence on my life. And if I could rally up cities and private industries to fund this. So it was like almost a business plan. And thinking about this public-private partnership. And I didn't know at the time that I was really speaking of like community development and all of these other things within urban planning. So I had a professor at the time who gave me the nod and he said, "this is very thoughtful."
Kenya (07:43):
"Have you ever thought about urban planning? Have you ever thought about becoming an urban planner?" I was like, "nah, I don't know anything about that." And he said, "I think you should apply to urban planning program." And I did. And once I was accepted into the program, it was a "oh sh**" moment. Because I was out of my element. I didn't know what the hell I got myself into. You have folks in this program, it was a very competitive graduate program. And folks had already been planners for 10 years. They wanted their master's degree. Now people knew what they were there for. They knew the change that they were there to create. I did not, I just went on a whim and was like, "I'm this sound guy. I'm this creative guy." I'm talking about soundscapes. I'm talking about noise pollution. I'm talking about all these things.
Kenya (08:33):
And everybody's looking at me like I am from a different planet. I was the oddball in urban planner graduate school. And I had so many... I'll just cut to the chase. I had so many amazing mentors, other professors who started leading me down different paths. The first one I went down, environmental policy, looking at noise pollution, looking at our -- the United States -- as you know, not having anything to protect citizens since the eighties, when Reagan at the time gutted the EPA. So all of that stuff really started getting really interesting to me as saying, how do we protect? How do we preserve? How do we conserve, you know, sound and soundscapes. And then I think around that time, that's actually when I started reading books by R. Murray Schafer, "The Soundscape" and other books. I started learning about bioacoustics and bird habitats.
Kenya (09:32):
And how do we preserve or natural areas? And it started making sense to me. Still wasn't making sense to anyone around me. And that's when I just say, you know, I have to do this. I have to really figure out how do I really start to think about soundscapes, sound in cities, public spaces, how we plan our cities, how we think about sound of the city. Because we always were talking about sense of place in urban planning. But that sense of place was very apparent. That it was all about what it looked like. It had nothing to do with what it sounded like. I started watching, reading and watching, you know, like William White, his work about small spaces. And now it's very little about sound there, but it was so dynamic about transforming public spaces. But so all these motivations started happening.
Kenya (10:24):
And just starting to think about when I'm in a public space, what does it sound like? Most of 'em sound like crap, cuz they're surrounded by traffic.Lots of traffic, you know? And, and I would always take my friends who are transportation planners to town. Like "what are you guys doing about the soundscape?" And they were just really just trying to get people out of cars. You know, they wanted more bike lanes. They wanted people to use more public transportation. So I started thinking about all of those different opportunities that we were missing out on. One of the things was -- I think that has been something here in the pandemic -- less driving, with no cars and how quiet.. People trying to boost the economy, and they have streetscape dining, you know, with no cars.
Cary (11:09):
Oh, I love that.
Kenya (11:10):
No one puts sound first, you know. Sound is always this afterthought. And it's always this thing that happens or benefits when someone does something else. So I think a lot of my thinking in this work and how I've evolved has always been like I have to be super intentional about sound. And I think it's, for me, it's always been about who has the most agency to make decisions. Who's impacted, think about like the equity and the inequities of so many different types of pollutions. Sound is an impacter. But I can't just default to the negative of noise. Because I do understand how it's divisive, but it's an easy cop-out not to do the real work of planning, being very intentional about planning our cities and our urban spaces and public spaces. Putting sound first. And that's where I've landed now. To understanding that. I point to awareness, there's a lack of awareness, because so many of our government officials -- our designers, our planners, our architects -- they've been visually driven.
Phill (12:32):
And you can probably make an argument our entire society is like that. Right? I mean, even in your filmmaking experience, oftentimes foley is an afterthought. The sound design is an afterthought in the creative process, right?
Kenya (12:42):
Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're dead on, Phill. I mean, I think that's the point where it's like, I have to put it first all the time. And I think, just almost doing this for now 30 plus years, it is the thing that has driven me in so many different ways. But it's also benefited me in so many different ways. You know, just as far as...as long as I put sound first, I'm good. I'm doing some good for the commons. And I'll cut back to two people, Barry Truax, R. Murray Schafer. They both said this to me. They have been doing this for 30, 40 years. And now, you know, I say now, but this was like a conversation 10 years ago, but now it's picking up steam. So I started to think like, wow, you know, here are some folks who've been in this for almost as long as I've been born. And they're just starting to see the fruits of their labors.
Kenya (13:43):
And I always hold that close to me because I took that chance. I could have easily taken an easy way out in urban planning and done something. That's just: One, profitable. Two, employable. But I had to stick to my guns, and I had to stick to it to know that this is that change that we need. And just having a deep understanding of the impacts to so many things. So that's really how I got here. And a lot of the thinking behind the passion for soundscapes and acoustic ecology and just the sensory urbanism.
Cary (14:20):
And so your role in some of these projects in Portland, what exactly does your company offer in terms of services for urban planning?
Kenya (14:29):
So Hush Soundscape Planning. I started this in 2012. And it was interesting because I started at the beginning of my research and I don't work with government here or anything like that. Primarily working with private industry and also private individuals, so really when you think about services facilitation, that's one of the things like if you called us, we can talk about sound. But we can also talk about the mediation where we're not trying to mediate just to mediate or facilitate. We're very sound-centric in that mediation and understanding the perception of sound, understanding the annoyance of sound. That's one of the things that we pride ourselves on. We also think about soundscape management and having actual plans to talk about soundscape, how to mitigate sounds or how to redirect sounds. You may build a home and you may not be thinking about outside of your periphery of your home.
Kenya (15:37):
So even working with landscape architects, how do we even think about landscape design in a different way to help mitigate that? And it's not just about like -- everyone defaults like "let's build a berm" or something like that. It's about thinking about how do we attract different bird song? How do we attract different habitat to your space, to really start to think about the long-term? And sometimes it's not the immediate fix. Sometimes it is about the distraction. You know, sometimes it is about we're gonna attract hummingbird to your property if you're in the right climate and environment to attract a different type of bird species where you start to think about we're bringing in different types of bird sounds. More bird sounds. You'll be surprised how many people don't have any type of habitat that will attract nature on their property when they have more than enough property to actually do it.
Kenya (16:35):
You know, people hardscape things. And they're not really thinking about vegetation to bring in things. You'll be surprised planting an eco lawn with clover and what that does to your soundscape. When you think about the pollinators that come on your property, it's, I mean, you're sitting reading and you can actually, it's quiet and you hear the bees. So we even think about that. You know, even the soundmapping aspect, the technology aspect of soundmaps, creating soundmapping, the awareness piece. Even doing the soundwalks, being able to come and... And soundwalks don't have to be outside. When you have larger companies and start thinking about what the space sounds like, that also includes soundwalking inside a space and how do we change the work environment? So even thinking about the conservation, thinking about soundscape management plans. Hush Planning, really, it's one of these things where, when I started my PhD work, I had to go on hiatus.
Kenya (17:36):
You know, I had a couple friends kind of running it for me. God bless them. And so I'm just getting back into it as a practitioner. And unfortunately -- and I think everybody's experienced this -- right when we were getting back into it, pandemic strikes. And there was some great clients and I'm still looking forward to working with them. They're not in the US right now and we can't travel and they can't travel. And that was the part that last year, mid last year. We were all ...and they were very patient, they understood my situation. I'm really into this research right now, but I'm looking forward to this project. They waited, I waited. Pandemic hit. And I think it's... I will say it will be state of the art. We really want to incorporate all the things, whether it's a soundscape management plan, really looking at the sensory aspect of space: interior, exterior, and just really creating the experience really capitalizing on the natural environment. But highlighting that experience, that sonic experience of nature, but bringing that into the forefront for a very therapeutic and holistic, healing type of place.
Kenya (18:57):
So we are a small team full of great advisors, great practitioners all over the world, very ad-hoc group. We've been having these amazing conversations and discussions for almost 10 years. Hush is definitely at the forefront of really merging a lot of the elements of urban planning, urban design, acoustic ecology, and sensory urbanism. And just really bringing it into an actual business that I feel that whether it's a city, whether it's a private citizen, they will benefit from that because it's the intentionality of putting sound first and being super open about it and honest about it. Because one thing I'm not, I'm not an acoustic engineer and I will never pretend to be. I'm not an architect, you know? So some of these things, it's... I'm not the quantitative person, I'm the anecdotal, qualitative person that really wants to...whether it's a behavioral modification or the smaller things that we do to change the impact.
Kenya (20:11):
That's where we come from. We have access to all those folks who can do all those really technical things, but that's not just a first resort mean, cuz I think a lot of this is simple. I say simple and I say that more so like strategic, <laugh> what we need to change. But a lot of it is our mental psychology. And we have those folks that really can explore to look at the complete situation, to see where we need to insert ourselves. And I think that's the difference, with the services that we're offering and how we're trying to really change the way people live. And especially when they're thinking about their sense of place or thinking about their communities. But they're also thinking about the soundscapes that they benefit from, but also the soundscapes that may be impacting them. The one thing, you know, I rarely use the word "noise" and I think that's just part of the awareness because noise to me may not be noise to you. It's so subjective. And you know, and I think part of the culture shift is really speaking honestly about that.
Cary (21:20):
I think that was a great summary of what you do. And I think maybe environmental psychology and "sound first" and some of these concepts, I'd like the way that you wrap that up, like what you do, what you bring versus experts you can bring if needed.
Kenya (21:37):
One thing I'd like to add that Hush Planning...we really love, I think the sound preference survey. I took every practitioner through that. I took them through the same survey that I have been developing for many years. And a sound preference survey is one of the biggest things that is so important, to just that inquiry into why are you bothered? What is it that you want? What sounds do you not want to hear or what sounds do you want to hear? And you know, on the back end of that, when we ask simple questions, like what's the loudest sound you heard or what is the loudest sound you hear versus the quietest. Sometimes people don't understand the quiet may be the most annoying. Not the loud, but we have to get an understanding to start to get into the environmental psychology of their perception of what they want to hear. And what's annoying them. I think of anything that Hush offers that perception survey is so important because that solves so much up front to understand who the client is, sonically.
Cary (22:57):
There's a lot of things I want to talk about. And one of the things I really, really wanted to find out from you are some of your thoughts around specifically how noise ordinances are antiquated and often not enforcable or not enforced. And that you have ideas of soundscape design that would somehow control those unwanted sounds or avoid targeting certain people over noise that maybe they don't even realize that they're making, or that it's just part of urban life or whatever. So I'm interested in your thoughts around that, of mitigating noise in a way that's more...I guess, holistic.
Kenya (23:35):
Yeah. So what I'll speak to is antiquated noise codes. I could speak to Portland. Portland, you know, has a noise code probably like 40 years old. Give or take, when you think about 40 years ago in Portland, Portland's not a very diverse city now. And it definitely was not a diverse city 40 years ago. And when you have like a handful of people who don't look like me, you know...for the listeners, I'm an African American man, and codes written by white people for white people? That has been perpetuated. And when you write a code and it doesn't celebrate growth of diversity, it creates harm.
Kenya (24:21):
And when you think about a noise code simply is quantitative in nature, you know, someone's gonna point a noise meter at a sound and either you're in compliance or you're not. Does not speak to the quality of the sound. So that's problematic. So if I'm in a public space or a private residence and have a cultural celebration going on, the end of Ramadan or something. And there's group prayer, and someone does not like that sound. They get to complain about it. <laugh>. And one, when they place that complaint, no one's gonna show up for probably days. If at all. So you weaponize a complaint-driven system because you don't like something. We rarely speak about harm in health, most noise codes don't speak to that. Because we know if we look at OSHA standards, that exposure is over a quite substantial period of time before harm is done. But that does not mean it doesn't annoy you, and I think perception is a completely different item where how we perceive certain sounds. Great example, if you live near a military base and you are leaning toward that type of lifestyle, jets <laugh> may be the sound of freedom.
Kenya (26:09):
And they may disturb you. Or you may not have a problem with it. The same as if you enjoy Harley Davis and motorcycles or fast cars or racing, those sounds don't bother you. So if your neighbor is doing that, which is quite harmful, you know, to some degree, do you complain? Probably not. So that's problematic. Where it's so subjective that people who know how to use a complaint-driven system or know how to weaponize a complaint- driven system, create harm and division in communities. So if I'm home, and my music is loud, not loud enough to create any type of health impacts, but you may not like the type of music I'm listening to. And you file a noise complaint against me. I'm gonna have some... <Laugh>, maybe I shouldn't approach this neighbor. And that creates division because really, we should know our neighbors. We should have a lot more respect to go next door and say, "that is annoying me."
Kenya (27:33):
This is why that does not happen because we have created systems that allow people to basically complain about the smallest things. And I'm not minimizing annoyance. And that's the one thing I get a lot of criticism when I talk negatively about complaint-driven systems. But through my experience, I've seen the weaponization of them, and I've seen the inequities of them. And that has been brought on by gentrification, new people moving into historically black or historically Latino neighborhoods. And those sounds have been there. They are sound marks of those communities and some new people say, "Hmm, I don't really like that sound." Or it may not match the new gentrified environment. A great example of that is DC. You know, the Metro phone store where they play go-go music and that is a sound mark of that community. People expect when they walk down that certain street, that store is gonna have their door open with a speaker, the door playing go-go music.
Kenya (28:47):
As that neighborhood gentrified, they got started getting complaints that there tells the story of how the culture shift starts to happen. Another thing, you know, when we talk about complaint-driven systems and antiquated noise codes is that we have a rise in our immigrant and refugee population over the last 20, 30 years. A lot of those codes are not translated. So how can you penalize someone who doesn't even understand the code that you're trying to enforce? And that is an inequity. And when you think about enforcement... EnFORCEment, what's the point. Because you get to pick and choose what you enforce. There's no blanket... And most noise, cuz there's no blanket protocol for enforcement. There's probably some code enforcement person who answers noise complaints and they pick and choose. And when you have a limited number of enforcement people, there are so many opportunities for abuse power.
Kenya (29:59):
And when you think about out who is making the noise complaints, whether they have power in the community or affluent communities, the biases take center and people are going to be at the beck and call of more affluent folks and more affluent neighborhoods. Because they have more influence because those are some of the same people who can call city aldermans and mayors and things like that to get their complaint to the top of the list. So you have these abuses of power that happened. Portland is a great example where you start to think about a lot of black-owned businesses, a lot of black-owned entertainment businesses and venues. They're shut down. And noise complaints was the entree into having a lot of those businesses closed. And so Portland doesn't have a hip hop scene or hiphop community because there was a very targeted effort to close a lot of those venues down and they all, it all started with noise complaints.
Cary (31:09):
And it seems like maybe a better solution would've been, if these were indoor venues, to help them with a small business loan or something where they could do soundproofing. I've seen bars, a few blocks away from me where that became like a noise code regulation. So there's like a bar I've passed by they've got really loud music in it, but you only know it when someone opens the door to leave. Otherwise it's completely solid, you know, because it's mixed residential business. But that takes money to do and an expert who knows how to do it right. And that's the thing... Is that would be a solution. Also just one more thing is it can go both ways. By the way, in terms of, I live in an area that's becoming more affluent and it's the affluent people making the noise.
Cary (31:57):
They're the ones who have the big parties, and they have the party decks and the big sound systems. I can't tell you how many times I've heard -- at three o'clock in the morning -- thundererous bass with lots of women going "woooo". And same thing though. You can call the police. But the thing is a lot of times, if they come by that time, maybe the party's over or they're not gonna....they back off because this affluent guy answers the door. So it's a power thing, also. It's a power thing. If you're shutting down sounds you don't like, but it's also a power thing. Sometimes I think in the hands of the noisemaker, depending on who you are.
Kenya (32:36):
I completely agree. And a great example of that is, you think about concerts in the park. Trust me, a symphony is very loud. But no one's complaining when the symphony is playing in the park. But you know, you get a handfvery little education, very little education and acoustics, understanding acoustics when they are more law- enforcement leaning. They are there to penalize someone versus someone who is an engineer. Someone who understands acoustics. Someone, whether it's a planner, whether it's ... And this gets into the soundscape planning aspect. This also gets into the acoustic ecology aspect, but someone who is being very intentional before permitting someone to even open an establishment, to do a check on how is this soundproof and what is the impact of this? So if you shift the workforce from having someone who's ineffective, as, you know, a code enforcement person, because they're never gonna quote "catch" the person because it's normally an afterthought. Versus saying from the time someone says, "I wanna apply for a permit," or variance or whatnot, to do an event or open a venue -- that's where soundscape planning comes in. That's where you can effectively go through a process and test what this space may sound like at different moments during the day, in the evening, and create those thresholds. So ahead of time what you are permitting versus what you're not permitting and that's something that just doesn't happen.
Cary (35:12):
And also I think, and when you mentioned symphony versus a boombox, I think bass and low frequency noise travels further. So maybe factoring in like, okay, you'll have a permit, but after these hours you have to change the the EQ a little bit on your music because that bass is gonna maybe travel over three miles. But if you lower the EQ on the bass after this hour, maybe. It's not just turning the volume down. Maybe then it's only gonna travel a shorter distance and bother fewer people. But I think it's not just the symphony...and I do think yes, people are like, "oh, it's the symphony. Isn't that beautiful. It's outside in the park, it's free." But it might also be those bass tones that sometimes the low frequency that bothers people sometimes regardless, is probably absent more from that style of music. And I think taking that into account of like this thing is something we can do about this style of music that might make more sense to reduce complaints. And rather than say, let's get rid of the club, or.... and I think the second thing is doing something that decouples the walls from the framing so that the bass is not escaping as much outside the building as it would, if it was just typical American two-by-fours.
Kenya (36:37):
Right. And there are many designs where, you know, you can float the walls or float the floors and not be attached to the foundation. So that minimizes the vibration of, you know, some of those bass tones and sounds. So there are many interventions that can happen. And a lot of my research and my thinking is this needs to be at the front of decisionmaking, you know, not the retrofit, because what typically happens. The retrofit is in most cases, very expensive and probably just not feasible, as far as depending on the venue, depending on the age of the building and, you know, it can be very, very, very expensive to properly mitigate sound in a retrofit.
Phill (37:32):
I think it's also worth pointing out: We talked about some of the ordinances and how they're quantitative, but even those quantitative measures do not capture nuances of -- like Cary's pointing out -- the spectrum of the sound, right? Sometimes they're a single decibel meter. And I'm not sure about in Portland, but I know we've talked in various communities and in ocean sound ordinances where there will be like a single value that they're measuring to determine if noise is in compliance or not. And there's ways to game that system also. So that even the quantitative measures -- as ineffective and harmful as they can be -- they're not even doing the actual quantitative aspect in a useful way. Like they're not only harmful, but it's also often just putting too much into one number in a more complex sound.
Kenya (38:23):
Right. I totally agree, Phill. And I think also... People also look at the octave band as far as where the octave is, the frequency of the sound. But at the end of the day, it's ineffective because we're not talking to one another as neighbors <laugh>, we're becoming more divided. These systems are weaponized. And quite frankly, I have to always default back to 60 decibels of birdsong isn't the same as 60 decibels of a Harley Davidson motorcycle, being revved in front of your home. And who gets the ticket, you know, <laugh> so it's like all things equal. Because we're just pointing at this number and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to show up at your door with the noise meter and point a noise meter and say, "okay, now I'm gonna give you a ticket."
Kenya (39:17):
Very little, anything goes into that. And I think that has way too much impact on our communities. And Cary, you mentioned like holistic ways of doing this. And I think what I mentioned earlier, if we're thinking strategically, upfront, of how do we shift that? I think one of the other aspects of that is let's say you're not building a new building. Let's say, you're not trying to open a venue. Let's say you are simply trying to have a peaceful evening and your neighbor is doing something that may impact that. Really, I think it comes down to more mediation facilitated conversations and you know, whether it's a government entity or private entity providing that dialogue, providing that education. And back to my research, a lot of it is the awareness. People. I may not know how I'm impacting you. And that is like the basics of when we talk about the holistic aspects of it -- I don't know what I'm doing that impacts you because you have not told me. You have told someone else -- who -- their only job is to penalize me based on the complaint that you've provided to them. You know? So it's a very blind process where I'm not even involved. I'm just targeted at this point as the bad person, who's creating a sound that you don't agree with.
Cary (40:56):
Yeah. I agree. That's ...and I think one of the things we've seen during this pandemic is that sometimes even trying to explain how something impacts you to try to open a dialogue with another person, that seems to be breaking down in some parts of our culture. Because we've seen all these people having meltdowns over wearing a mask into the supermarket or whatever. And that is also the same kind of resistance some people meet when they try to talk to a neighbor, for example. And say, "Hey, it sounds like you're walking around with wooden shoes on upstairs" or whatever. Sometimes it's a matter of how you approach that person. And sometimes it's simply that there's this feeling of entitlement or personal freedom or something that people feel is impinged on. When a neighbor comes to them and says, "this is impacting me. Can you change this?"
Cary (41:48):
It seems like a perfectly reasonable request, but we don't really have the systems in place. I think for neighborhood mediation at a level where... In the United States, we're all told to call 311 or 911, right? And either one of those, I think, leads to the police. And so that's part of it too, is we don't have that group of people. I think they're trying to establish it in San Francisco to some degree, but I think their number one priority is dealing with street addicts and homeless people. Not neighbor stuff at this time. But it's a really good point is that we... that is the first step. And that should be the first step, not bringing in the police. We've seen so many things end very badly that way.
Kenya (42:32):
Yeah, I agree. And it's something that you say is really important, when you think about calling, whether it's 9 1, 1 3, 1, 1 police show up. Someone who's not trained in sound, to even understand the complexity and the nuance of sound, shows up to solve a problem. And how do they solve problems? Citations, arrest <laugh> and other things that happen when police show up. So that's the failure of the complaint-driven system. Also, most of the time, those folks in enforcement are not the right people to deal with actually mitigating the sound or helping alleviate some of the sounds. They enforce. To basically say, "stop doing this," but they're not fixing the issue. And I think that's what's really problematic, and that's why it's really what the whole aspect, the soundscape planning, but it is all about planning.
Kenya (43:40):
It's like, how do we do different things? And when we think about the holistic nature, I'll speak to public spaces. We can have, I've seen this in some cities, you can have on, off, on -- even days of how traffic flows in the direction of traffic, the duration and the time when traffic flows near different areas of a public space or, you know, a different part of a city. The other thing that really is beneficial. If we make a very intentional effort to designate a space or an area as a quiet space, whether it's a public space, whether it's a streetscape, the same way we would designate an area that is a watershed or an environmental protected zone. We as average citizens, we start to by default respect that. Because we know that, "oh, I shouldn't do this in this area because there may be a particular bird species that I need to help because it's endangered."
Kenya (45:00):
We do the same thing. When we think about our parks, we think about our public spaces to say, "Here's the space, here's this area. Let's program this area to do -- or be -- this." Now I'm not saying that doesn't come with problems. Because self-policing sometimes can be problematic, but that happens. And when you really start to think of some of the work with Quiet Parks International -- I'm an advisor for Quiet Parks International. And the work that I've been helping with there is determining some of the standards for certification for our urban spaces. So there are some pluses and some minuses. Primarily, mostly pluses. But when you think about how you can designate areas and certify them to give them the attention that we need to maintain this space a certain way, we need to maintain the programming of this space a certain way.
Kenya (46:08):
In most cases, that happens organically. People understand. If you understand, what do they call it? You know, when you go camping and you don't leave anything...?
Phill (46:20):
Leave no trace.
Kenya (46:21):
Leave no trace. It's that same concept. When, just like recycling. People, it's taken a lot of folks a long time to learn to recycle. We are at that stage now, when we start to think about our soundscape. When we start to think about our public spaces and what we want to hear when we're in those public spaces, but it comes through awareness. And it comes through the education of folks. As you certify areas, people start to take pride in those areas. And that leads to that conservation preservation of that space. It's the same when I started thinking about -- years ago -- doing research about "how can I use a soundscape as a tool for community building?"
Kenya (47:08):
And what I started doing was looking at different neighborhoods and looking for sound marks in those neighborhoods, and then highlighting the sound mark to say, "you know what? This is only unique to you. This is in your neighborhood and it's unique to you. This is special." So when people hear it, they start to take pride in it. And then they become the champions of that soundscape and that sound mark in their community. And I think that alone builds that trust. And it gives that courage to say, "Hey, don't mess with my sound mark." People start to educate one another about what it is and why it happens. And that's super important when you start to say, "I'm gonna come to you, or you're gonna meet me at this certain place. And we're just gonna walk around and not talk or not fidget with our devices."
Kenya (48:06):
And we're just gonna listen. And we're gonna really hear the places where we live. It's life changing to have that audible understanding now of my space. Not the visual like, "Wow, I want to better understand sense of place. <laugh> I wanna better understand my community through the soundscape." When you do that walk now, you know, I've done hundreds of soundwalks. And when I bump into random people, I don't remember some of the folks in there. Just like, Hey, you know what? You know, I have a kid now. And when I walk him to school, we do five minutes where we don't talk. And then my kid is telling me about the things that they hear, whether it's the change of the texture of the surface they're walking on. When they go from concrete to leaves to gravel.Those are the things that people start to understand about their community.
Kenya (49:01):
You know, one thing I pointed out in a soundwalk one time, I just stood on a corner and I waited for a bus to come by. And I told everyone, look at your watch. And they look at their watch. And I was like, "that's a sound mark. That bus comes by here every day around the same time. That is a sound mark in your community." So you start learning the simplicity of like the bus and the bus number and its route, where you are in your community. Now, even if I blindfolded you and we're walking now past that corner, you're gonna say, I think I might be here because I hear this bus. And it's those things that increase that awareness and that familiarization with place that I think, in the holistic aspect of people better understanding their communities, better understanding sound in their communities.
Kenya (49:59):
This is the counter to the weaponization of a complaint-driven noise system. Like, "oh, I'm just gonna call and complain." You know, now people have a better understanding of where they live. I think they're more engaged to share that with folks and point that out and take others on the same walk and start to think differently about their neighborhood. And as that spreads, whether it's organically or not, people become a little bit more aware of their neighbors. They become a little bit aware of how they're impacting their own neighborhood. That's the thing, you know. For example, in my neighborhood, we stop using, and when I say my neighborhood, I'm speaking 2, 3, 4, probably my immediate like four or five neighbors. We all have battery-powered lawnmowers. Now, you know, but <laugh>, there are some neighbors who still have their yard service, who shows up... Some people, they may not mow their lawn as frequently, but I've been very vigilant and... "You wanna borrow my lawnmower? Try it out."
Kenya (51:13):
You know, just not even talking about your lawnmower is louder and it's disturbing me, "Hey, look at this new tool I got, you should check it out. What do you think?" One, it's not polluting, sonically or in any other way, but it's those nuances where it's like, I get to start thinking and start having a dialogue about other ways that we change our community. So all of that is part of that holistic aspect of soundscape, the soundscape approach and you know, more soundscape awareness. And that's one of the things that I've been very intentional about.
Cary (51:55):
So what it sounds like is you maybe found success. Instead of... what you recommend is not to complain about something to another person, but to make a suggestion or an offer to loan someone something that's better, without actually saying "this noise bothers me" or "your lawn mower is too noisy." More like being proactive and saying, "Hey, check this out. Have you ever considered this?" How have you found them to be receptive? You know, when you do something like that
Kenya (52:26):
All the time, whether it's neighbors who may not have the right tools, think of the concept of the tool library, just to say, "Hey, I have this tool that might help you if you need it, let me know. It's an open offer." That's the one thing, you know, just thinking about community really at the bottom line, it's about community. And I always think about, we are on the West Coast. We think about The Big One, whenever that might happen. In Cascadia, you know, the earthquakes and whatnot. And at the end of the day, it's about who's gonna help me and who can I help? And it's not gonna be some city person. It's gonna be my next-door neighbors. And it's about strengthening that relationship. So it is always about relationship building because you never know when you're gonna need that person or that person needs you. And being ready for that and complaining or creating any kind of divide.
Kenya (53:24):
It disrupts those opportunities. And I think that's one of the negative aspects of not speaking or not knowing our neighbors. And noise can be very divisive. And that's the one thing through a soundscape approach and soundscape planning. It is really a about the community-building aspect. It is really about creating a new type of sense of place. And sense of places are immediate surroundings. And that's a scale. You know, we go from this immediate home environment to citywide, but if we can't start at a very drilled-down level, there's no way for it to spread and keep growing. Because it has to be ground up. It's not top down.
Cary (54:13):
I agree. And I also agree that the awareness component is so important because a lot of people just don't even give it a second thought. It's not part of their vocabulary. It's not part of their everyday perception. You know, they may be aware of music that they listen to, but they're not aware of all the other sounds in the soundscape. And in fact, sometimes I think people play music because the silence is uncomfortable. And I was that way too. At one point, you know, I had music on all the time.
Kenya (54:46):
I think I went through that. Public transportation for me was a visual thing, you know, seeing folks put on their headphones so they don't have to deal with others. And for me, I needed to increase my situational awareness. So I, one, I don't really care for earbuds and things like that. But I just started wanting to listen more. Sometimes, when you're on public transportation, especially in a city like Portland, sometimes it's the only time you get to see diversity. And then I want to hear it too. You know, I want to hear different languages being spoken. I want to hear the complexity of the child versus the elderly person. I want to hear those things. And to me that that's just what I'm into, you know, the sound. So it was very hard for me to tune out things. I need more <laugh>, I mean, I'm constantly thriving for more. I want to hear something that I haven't heard before. That's... I'm driven for that. So that's the last thing I want to do is live this life and travel and not take it in, especially sonically, you know.
Cary (55:59):
When we did this interview, we'd just seen the news about the passing of R. Murray Schafer, the founder of the World Soundscape Project, and a major influence on many people who got engaged with acoustic ecology because of his influence.
Kenya (56:14):
The few moments I've spent with him, like 2011, I was in Corfu with him at the World Forum. And, it's like, wow, you read about someone in a book and you actually see them. And they're like super approachable. And funny. Really funny. For me, it was one of those things where, I know many of us in this community have had those life-changing moments... As we probably are those lone people in our little circles who are passionate about sound or soundscapes. And then to see the prominent figure in the entire discipline right before you and approachable... That's everlasting. So just that type of news is kind of... a lot of reflection, but also a lot of inspiration of what we still need to do going forward.
Cary (57:06):
I'd like to thank Dr. Kenya Williams for joining us for this interview to find out more about his work and about Hush Planning. I'll put some links on the Soundproofist blog. Thanks for listening, and see you next time.