247. Why Trying Too Hard to Be Different is Hurting Your Business with Megan Yelaney

Okay friends, we are inching dangerously close to the New Year.

And if you are anything like me, you’re probably sitting there with your fresh 2026 planner, feeling that creeping pressure to "reinvent" yourself. You might be thinking, “I need a totally new angle,” or “I need to burn it all down and start fresh to get noticed this year.”

Before you do anything drastic, listen to this episode.

Originally recorded in August of this year, I hit pause on the podcast before releasing… and I’m so glad I did because this is the right time for you to hear this one.

I’m chatting with business strategist Megan Yelaney, and this is one of those real, grounding conversations that helps you slow down, zoom out, and rethink how you show up in your business.

In this episode, we talk about:

• The "uniqueness" trap – why trying so hard to be different can actually hurt your sales, and why specificity is what really works
• The messaging pendulum swing that traps entrepreneurs between copying others and being so obscure no one gets it
• Why social media feels so dang hard (hint: it has nothing to do with the algorithm)
• A spicy take on AI –  where to actually use it in your business and where to definitely leave it out
• How to niche down without boxing yourself in or burning it all to the ground
  Leading with empathy – why it’s the most powerful (and overlooked) marketing tool you have right now

If you take one thing into the New Year, let it be this: it’s okay to be redundant.

The most successful business owners aren't inventing a new message every Monday. They’re saying the same damn thing, over and over again, until it sticks.

So grab your coffee, and let’s get into it!

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Transcript

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Heather (00:11)
hey friends, welcome back to another episode of the Ramble Refinery. I'm here with my first guest in quite a while, and I could not be more thrilled about today's episode. So fun fact about this, which side note, I hate the term fun fact because if somebody mentions the fun fact, it's actually never fun. But here's what's fun. I met Megan through a mutual friend of mine, Emily Reagan, who's been on the show multiple times.

And Megan, before I have you say hello, I just have to giggle because I went back through our DM history on Instagram and you and I connected three years ago this summer. And our initial connection was to do podcast interviews with each other and ⁓ life life. We both had babies around the same time, but it's been three years in the making to have this interview happen. So ⁓ like drum roll, please, Megan, welcome to the show.

Meg (01:03)
Thank you. I feel so much pressure now to deliver after three years. That's why I knew it's been a minute, but I didn't realize it was three years. Wow. We made it. We finally made it. Happy to be here.

Heather (01:12)
We made it and when Emily introduced me to you, I totally stalked you on Instagram and I had that moment where I was like, she's really got her shit together. Like you, one, know social media and two, you know how to make it work for your business and help other people with it. Like you just got a bangin' brand online. Also you have like sub-brands and like hobby Instagrams that you make it look so easy. So I totally had an Instagram girl crush on you.

Meg (01:40)
Thank you. I love it.

Heather (01:40)
which we'll probably talk about later. anyways, officially everyone's like, all right, who's Megan? Let's talk about what you officially do because you and I do very similar things in different ways. So give us the official introduction. Tell us about your business, how long you've been in this and whatever else you want to.

Meg (01:48)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you. No, I love what you do and I feel very similar in so many values and things that you put out. like, yes, yes, yes, yes. So ⁓ I'm really excited to have the conversation we're to have today. And I think one of the main reasons is we're to talk about what makes you different and can you go a little too far with that? I kind of got started in business in network marketing where you were just taught to not be different and everyone was the same and everyone was copying and pasting what the company gave you. So it's kind of funny to now.

be in this business where I'm trying to help people find what's unique about them, but in a way that is actually relatable and sellable. And that's kind of that pendulum swing that people go a little too far with. So I've been in business since 2012 in one way, shape, form, which is so wild to say. I feel like such a grandma in this industry. And I've had lot of pivots, a lot of changes. I did a fitness coaching business for a while. Then I grew that to six figures and was like, I don't love this.

this is not my thing, I should not be doing this anymore, and quickly pivoted to business because I realized what was helping me in my network marketing business was the business aspect. I actually went to school for business, but thought, I'm not gonna use this, I'm gonna move to LA and become an actor, because every.

graduate of business school does that. ⁓ And then quickly realized I actually loved so many aspects of business and marketing. And the combination of my acting background and marketing, all of that together, really kind of drew me to storytelling and social media and going, my gosh, I can kind of act on social media and play and do skits and have fun and get paid for it and not have to, you

have the starving artist life that a lot of us do and that I did live for a while. And so in 2017 is when I made my biggest pivot from health coaching to business coaching. And I've been doing that ever since in one way, or form. But I would say ⁓ in the last year and a half, two years, it's drastically changed because I had twin boys. And as you know, your life just turns upside down when you have kids and what you thought you wanted, you don't. And you're like, who am I? I thought I had my shit together. Now I don't feel like I do anymore. So you saying that I'm like.

my gosh, it's been a journey to get back there. But now what I really am super passionate about is helping people find what is truly unique about them compared to everyone else in their industry saying the same damn thing. And how do they say it in a way that feels very genuine, that doesn't feel like they are trying to be this dramatic, you know, over the top version of themselves, but it's true and they can show up super consistently, but really also be positioned as like, I haven't tried that before. Maybe I do need that person. So that's like really what I like to help people do. But it's been a...

A journey to get here from generic business coach to like, that's what I like to do. So that's I feel. Yeah.

Heather (04:34)
It always is the journey, right?

And I think it's an interesting thing that when people start their businesses, they have an idea of what it's going to be like. And logically, we know that things always evolve and change over time. But we think for some reason that we're the exception and we need to plan it all out and have the, like, I'm going to have my million dollar idea, whatever the frick that means, right, out of the gate. And if it doesn't work out, I'm a failure. And it's just...

It's comical, right? Once you've been in business for a few years or eight years or 10 years, 20 years, it's comical to look back at that beginning piece. We're gonna go a lot of different places today because I just have so many curiosities about you and these are my favorite conversations. So the business thing, this is something that's really fascinating, especially someone like you.

Meg (05:09)
Mm-hmm.

I'm excited.

Heather (05:26)
sorry if I put this label on you, but you're really good at social media. Like you're really freaking good at social media. And I think what makes me so in awe of it is as like a social media consumer, like people who are great at social media, I feel like there's some like unique and special talent that you all have that with this creativity and this strategy, and there's just this something that like I don't have. Like I can't figure it out. Why is it so freaking hard?

Meg (05:27)
Thank you. Appreciate it.

in

Heather (05:55)
And from what I've learned about you in our conversations is that combination that you have around storytelling and your acting experience, but what is like your sleeper secret weapon is your business brain. And that's what's fascinating to me around how you make it work. But so I'm just curious, can we start off by talking about social media? Because I think that's the most like public thing that people see. How did you really find your groove?

Meg (06:08)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Heather (06:20)
on that of like externally talking about what you do and getting traction on on social media like what was your journey with that?

Meg (06:27)
Yeah, gosh, I love this question and thank you, I appreciate it. And you know, it's funny, I think sometimes people don't want to take that compliment or they think it means they're like an influencer. like, that's a great, the goal is to help people like social media, be social and sell at the same time. So I appreciate that and I will accept that. It is hard.

Heather (06:43)
I think it's the hardest freaking skill of like all the things in business.

People demonize it or they like make it sound like it's like some stupid hobby thing. But like I have such freaking mad respect and hardcore like envy of any business owner who is killing it at social media. like, I want to be like aspirationally like teaching.

Meg (07:02)
Yeah.

And you're

like, come on. We know it's interesting as just to decide that I think we'll paint this picture. So veer me back if I go too off. But I started an account in January, July of 2023. It was when I got pregnant. And I said, I really want to share my twin pregnancy journey. It's it's kind of a unique thing. I know I want to connect with other twin moms. And so I started this account on TikTok first and then an Instagram a couple months later and it blew up. I mean, it got to 20,000 followers.

fast and I was like, what is happening now? Sure, I know social media. I had years, but it took me a long time to get that on my account. So I was like, what's happening right now? And I think the biggest like one of the biggest things my clients still to this day, even though I'll rattle it off and tell them it doesn't matter. It's not is it a carousel versus a reel? Is it this sound versus that? That doesn't matter. At the end of the day, when I really analyzed why that account took off so much and I'm really trying to apply that to this account, my business account today.

is I was the actual ideal client or the ideal follower at the time. So what I would do to create content is I would literally go throughout my day and as like ridiculous shit happens with being a postpartum mom and I was exclusively pumping, as this stuff would happen, I would pause and I would go, that was so ridiculous. mean, let me talk about it. And I would just take a second to either write it down if I couldn't talk about it in the second and then talk about it later or I would.

literally prop my phone up and record it. And I'm talking about the most mundane, simple things that people would connect with, like shoveling food in your mouth so, so fast. I remember recording a video going, I'm not even breathing I'm trying to eat this so fast because my baby's calm. And so I just recorded myself doing that. That real, had 1.4 million views the next day. And I was like, what? That was the easiest thing I've ever created in my life. And I said, why are we making this so complicated? And so one of the biggest things I like try to help clients do when it comes to social is,

We have to actually get into our idle client's head and not that have to reenact things all the time, but instead of trying to find the perfect hook or trying to, is it carousel versus real? If you can get in their psyche and really truly go, what are they actually thinking? What are the specific things that they're saying and create content from that angle? It doesn't really matter the execution. Like that's what hit. That's why that account grew so much is people were so like, yes, my gosh, they would share it, they would save it.

So that was one big aspect. And then the second part that I think is really coming back in 2025, which I'm personally glad about is people are very curious about the person behind the brand. They're not just buying the solution anymore. They've been burned. The industry's been around for a while. So they bought things that haven't delivered. So they really want to trust the person. And so the personal brand, regardless of if you're a service-based business, if you're a coach, that's really huge now. And so...

I also am letting people into my life, but in a way that's showing the values I want from my clients. I'm not sharing all the details of every single aspect of my life 24-7, but I am letting them into my values with my kids, my values with my husband, how I coach, showing them, hey, here's a little behind the scenes of the process that I take clients through. And again, I'm literally going, I'm doing this right now. Let me record it and talk about it. It's not, I have to think of content for social.

So almost like go throughout your day and go, what is something I can share that is something my ideal client wants? If that makes sense. I can go off on a tangent so I don't want it too much, but that's like how I think I get natural. It feels very natural if that makes sense.

Heather (10:38)
Yeah,

it's okay. So what it sounds like to me is okay. It's similar to the joke I made at the beginning around how business owners want to have everything planned out and have be perfect the first time. What I think where I get stuck, right, is the I want it to be strategic. I want it to work, right? I want it to land. So then there creates this pressure that you have to sit down and create content, whether it's in the content buckets or it's in the format where it aligns to your offer, all those things. And what you're really describing is more

Meg (10:55)
Yeah, for sure.

Heather (11:07)
building the plane as you fly. because you know how to fly the plane and you're able to like put it into the pockets of your day. Can I ask you like a super detailed question on this? Because again, I'm just going to be self-serving right now, but I feel like this serves someone. What if, what if the thing that you teach and do is not something that you do every day? So I'll just use my.

Meg (11:16)
Yeah. Yeah, totally. I love it. Yeah.

Yeah, that's

Heather (11:31)
Like obviously I'm a speaking coach, but I am my ideal

Meg (11:33)
a great question.

Heather (11:33)
client too. I'm not speaking every single day and a lot of days I'm literally as you know in my kitchen cooking or on mommy like I'm not actually working in my business, but I'm running a business. How like how do you balance that dichotomy?

Meg (11:37)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's a great question. It's really, with the cooking videos as a great example, you can share clips of your normal day or what you're doing. Again, stuff that connects you as just a human with them, whether it's you're also a mom, you also love cooking, you also love singing, I love Harry Potter, I'll share that.

But then over it, you're sharing again, the sound bites that are going on in your ideal client's head. You're sharing the deep thoughts. You're sharing the, hey, if you want to land your next speaking gig, not that this is like your hook or what you would do, but if you want to land your next, like these are the three things that all of my speaking clients who have ⁓ booked out, you know, 10 % of the gigs that they've pitched ⁓ do that you're probably doing wrong, right? Just to hook them in, have to, again, that's a fear. Like, my gosh, I've sent out all these proposals and nothing has worked. Why? Or,

Heather (12:17)
Yeah, do it. Build it for me right now.

Meg (12:36)
I went to this gig and it didn't land and I didn't actually get any clients from it and nothing happened from it. Those are some of the things that your people probably struggle with that you're like, can help you with that. Speaking to that is basically instead of your life, you're just going through a day in the life of your ideal client. So it's like the thoughts, the fears, the feelings, the deep seated beliefs they had, just put it over your own life because you're not gonna pretend you're going to speak when you're not obviously.

But you can be kind of simultaneously sharing that tip. You've probably seen it all over with B-roll, right? Over a cooking video. You can be speaking over the, which you've been doing and I've been loving it, over the cooking video, voiceover that tip, but hooking them in with that thing that they're like, my gosh, that's a problem that I do have. So I will say with your flying the, you know, how did you phrase it? Building the plane as you fly. Thank you. Great with phrases. With that, it's that.

Heather (13:28)
That's fine, you got it.

Meg (13:34)
but it's backed in already knowing their thoughts, already knowing their feelings, already knowing their beliefs. So you do have to have that solidified. You gotta really know your person and what makes them tick. And I'd say the number one thing that I really encourage my clients to pay attention to is, again, the execution in terms of video versus carousel versus whatever, doesn't matter as much, but you do have to hook them in with something they care about. And I find a lot of times we'll write for us,

Right? Because we're interested in it and it's not something that someone who is just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling is gonna actually stop. So I will say if you're gonna spend any pre-planned time, work on the hook. And one thing, if it's helpful to give an example, I've been like compiling hooks every single week for my clients. I stalk social media and I go through and I'm like, why did this make me stop? What about it? And I'll take it and I'll templatize it for them. I don't know if that's a word, but we just said it. ⁓

Heather (14:32)
I love

made up words that totally make sense. So if it's not a word, I...

Meg (14:35)
Yay.

Same. So one that I've been kind of seeing around is like unpopular things I did to whatever goal your ideal client has as an, and then your credential. And this is what I'm noticing is something, not every single thing has to be, you know, the most ridiculous thing I did or outlandish or anything like that, but it has to have some kind of street credibility. It has to have a social proof from yourself or your client. Otherwise, why should they stop?

Why do they care? And that's like the biggest change I've noticed this year is if you don't give them a little bit of that social proof, they're scrolling because there's chat GPT. Anyone could go and say, give me a really good post, three tips to do blah, blah, blah, and they could post it. And sure, you could be lying about your social proof, but we're gonna just pretend you wouldn't do that, right? So that is making such a difference. So if you do anything, you spend time on anything, spend time on that hook. That's like the biggest thing for sure.

Heather (15:30)
love that you brought that up because what's so funny is when I think about my ideal client who I've been working with for the last seven years, one of the number one, I call them their like bitch about moments, like the things that they bitch about that we all bitch about, right? Is that frustration of, we always joke and I use this exact phrasing, the whippersnappers on Instagram and TikTok are like getting all the attention when they have literally no experience. They've just figured out how to hook. Meanwhile, you've been doing this for 10 years, 20 years, like, and you actually know what you're talking

Meg (15:41)
Love that. Yeah.

Heather (16:00)
about but people won't listen. So that like what you just said the credibility is as a licensed therapist or as a CPA or as a speaking coach like adding that little piece I know is going to resonate so much because I know as a consumer on social media I'm always skeptical as hell. Like I'm just like who like why would I listen to you and just that little piece I think really speaks to really speaks to a lot of our skepticism so great I love that.

Meg (16:28)
100 % and

one of them it's just kind of in line with this even when you're not seeking it out I was like oh I just got trapped in marketing and I know this I do this and I just got succumbed to it I was on my other account which is all parenting stuff so I'm very very targeted even my business account is a lot of parenting stuff and one was something along the lines of like

or your trauma onto your kids that's gonna result in them being horrible children. That's not what it said, but it was, that's what I felt when I read that. And I was like, I wasn't even worried about this. And now I have to re watch this video and now I have to sign up for this person's free class. So it's like, I didn't even, I didn't even go on there to look at it. And it hooked me with like, and I'm not saying do this, don't do this out of integrity. Like I'm really excited for the class and it's gonna be very helpful because I'm sure we're all doing that kind of stuff and don't realize it.

But it was a problem that I didn't even realize I had, but it was a fear that every parent probably has the second you see a kid misbehaving or whatever it is, that fear that you have. And so even if you can think like that when you're thinking of what are even some things that they don't realize, my gosh, I don't want that to happen. Again, not a fear mongering kind of approach, but something if it's true to you. It just happened literally the other day, so I had to mention it.

Heather (17:44)
Yeah, and you know what I always think is like that call out, so side note, let's talk messaging for a second, right? Because that call out that your audience is either believing something that's not true or they're making a mistake. We're to use the parenting example here. One of the things that people really screw up here is they do the call out and they put shame.

Meg (17:49)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Heather (18:07)
or guilt, serve it straight up for their ideal person, which I've seen a lot of parenting coaches or people in parenting do this. And you can see it being ripped apart in the comments. It's almost like a mama bear moment, but any of the more mature moms coming in and they're like, don't listen to this crazy person. Like you're doing your best, you do you. And it's like, we almost come in to be like, don't put this guilt on yourself because they're calling out that you should be doing this or should be doing that. So with that grain of salt, like when you do it really well,

Meg (18:16)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Heather (18:36)
When

you call in that fear or call out that fear or call out the mistake and you give a perfectly logical reason to validate why they're not alone in that, why people believe that, why people do that, what you do is instead of positioning yourself as their savior and as the like person who pointed out or made them feel shame or guilt, like even if that works, that's not how you wanna make people feel, right? You wanna empower people, right? To be empowered with that, my gosh, I didn't even realize that was happening.

Meg (19:00)
for sure.

Yep, exactly.

Heather (19:06)
How could I have known

that and then then be excited to now know something different? So I feel like it's that balance of empowerment to ensure that you're not shitting on your ideal client unintentionally.

Meg (19:17)
100%. I love that you meant you said that distinction because one of the, whenever I have clients kind of wanting to call out this fear, they're like, they say that I'm so, I don't want them to feel shame or blame or anything. I said, of course, you're going to back it up with, guess what? I did this too.

everyone does this. And so when you can soften it with like, we all do this. Like there's every single parent I know does this thing that I'm about to say. And guess what? It's so fixable. So I love that you said that because that's a really good way to like soften that like, kind of fear away. And it's such a point too. I wish I could find the exact pose that I'm speaking of. I would have never have signed up for that workshop if I felt just shitty about myself. You know I mean? It was like backed with all of that stuff that you said, but damn that it hooked me in. I was like, whoa.

Heather (20:02)
Yeah, there's this dude, I don't know if you all follow him, I don't know if you follow him, the Calm Parenting Podcast. There's this man, he's probably in his 50s, he's like not someone I would ever learn from, no offense to him, but it's just not my normal learn from person. But he's a dad, I think he's got teenagers now or something, but he's just got this vibe about him that's super calm. It's also like, okay, you've walked some things, I don't know what his training is, but he's just got...

Meg (20:02)
doing something?

OK.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Heather (20:29)
really good talking head videos and a killer podcast. And he does a great job of hooking you in around the topic, pointing out the problem and not making you feel like a failure as a parent for what's actually happening. So side note, if you all want an example of someone who I see through that really well with parenting, he's called like the Calm Parenting Podcast. I don't know you can't find it, just DM me on Instagram and I'll help you find it. that's one that I'm like, he does that really well.

Meg (20:54)
Love it.

Heather (20:59)
In contrast, like converse, what's the word I'm trying to use here? In contrast, there's this other gal that I had to actually ⁓ hide from my Instagram because she has all these carousels where she's constantly planting seeds in my brain that I am doing what you're talking about, like creating trauma for my children or as a failure. Like everything is a dramatized story and it's always a story that she tells about her own parenting to make it feel like it's normal.

Meg (21:02)
Hmm

Heather (21:27)
But everything is so dramatic that I'm just like, my kids are fine. I don't need these thoughts in my brain. I don't have hide her. anyways, like we see it happen all the time. I just think parenting is a really great example because there's such a lot of emotion with it. We really went down a rabbit hole here, but anyways, that's it.

Meg (21:32)
They're gonna be okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It is.

Yes, for sure. No, but I love it. It's

a good example though with social media that you do need that balance of like, yes, we need some call out and you know, to get people in and that's more of the action oriented content. But that's why a day in the life or sharing just a tip that doesn't have to have all of that like a mixture because that's heavy. If that's all you're seeing, it's like, Yeah.

Heather (22:03)
Yeah, it's that.

I think a lot of us, even those that are the most confident in what we do, whether it's in business or in life, when you are exposed to content that's constantly questioning how you're doing things, even the best of us, right, have like a shaky moment wondering like, the hell are we even doing here? So we do have to balance it quite a bit. Okay, so I thank you for starting on that side tangent around social media.

Meg (22:23)
Yeah, for sure.

Yes. I was like, oops, we went there.

Heather (22:32)
It's like, okay,

so it's coming back to it, right? We're gonna talk a lot about like messaging and helping people understand really what they're about. I, what I, let me give you like a quick reference point. So I was talking with a client a couple months ago and she had a keynote event coming up and she's like, she had never done a keynote on a real stage in her life. She'd only done workshops or stuff online. And she was like, I just need to go to YouTube and start watching a bunch of keynote speakers to figure out how I show up. And I was like, we are not.

doing that, like 100 % do not go watch other public speakers to try to figure out how to be a speaker. And that metaphor that I gave her, I don't remember what the metaphor was, but it was this idea that like, when you look at things from the outside, what happens is you start mimicking other people. And you don't actually know what their actual history is. You don't even know what their skill set is. You don't know what their business strategy is. Like you don't know what's behind all of that.

So when we mimic other people, like you're not gonna be successful. One is not authentic. And two, you're just, it's not gonna work for you because you don't have the inner workings that they have. So watching someone from the outside and trying to like mirror it, copy it, mimic it, even like reverse engineer it, it never fricking works. We have to first start with like the inside shit, both like internally in our own mindset, but like the inner workings of our business or offer our messaging.

Meg (23:37)
Yeah.

Yep.

Heather (23:59)
So that made me really think about what we're talking about now is everyone is like me, like, but how do I do it better on social media? How do I actually show up better on stage? How do I actually show it better when I speak? But the real thing is we have to figure out what the fricking message is and who the person is, AKA you, like showing up in order for any of that to work, which is I think what you were saying, the building the plane as you fly, it's not actually building the plane as you fly because you know your ideal person and you know their message.

Meg (24:16)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Heather (24:29)
So that brings to what we really want to talk about today is one of the struggles that a lot of experts have when it comes to building their business is they try so hard to stand out by being so different. Like what's this unique thing? What am I going to bring to the party? Even our mutual connection, Emily Reagan, when she was, Amy Porterfield's mastermind this spring, the legit conversation she and I had, she was like, she knew she was great and she was going to be great for it. But she's like,

what am I gonna say that other people who have much bigger businesses than I like around hiring or finding out whoever she was talking about, right? She's like, who am I to talk about this? Which she was never wanted to talk about this, but we all struggle. We try to figure out what this like unique and different thing and you say stop trying to be so unique and different. There's like a different approach. So let's get into that. Where does that typically come up for you or where do you see that?

Meg (25:08)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

yeah, love love love love this because like you just said it's this we were talking about this before we started recording. It's kind of this pendulum swing. It's like you either go to that, okay, I see success. Let me copy it. And as you just put beautifully doesn't work and and and or doesn't feel authentic usually both right? And so we're like, okay, that doesn't work. So now I just have to try to be as different as possible from everyone. And what ends up happening is it's still an authentic and

It's this like kind of weird thing people can't really grasp or understand. It's different and might bring in some engagement, but it's not actually going to convert to sales because there is this, I don't love the word relatable. I'm trying to use a different word. It just feels very used, but I guess that that's it for now. It's this mixture of, I see myself. Your client sees themselves in your story or in what's going on, but you're approaching it slightly uniquely from someone else they're hearing.

kind of say a similar relatable thing. And I think the crux of it when I really go through this with clients is how do you do it slightly differently? So maybe that's like your, let's just use business coaching as an example. Maybe you're a business coach.

And you have ⁓ a spiritual bent to your business coaching, whether that's a specific religion or just a way you show up. And you bring that into your coaching. So I actually have a couple of clients who have done this in the past. Like they will bring tarot cards or some of them have read, have prayed before after after sessions. Right. And they will bring that into their coaching. And that actually is something that helps their clients get into it.

And the biggest thing about this is if your client's not open to that specific example, they're be like, what is happening? What are you doing right now? Like, why are we doing this? They have to be open to that. So you even sharing that little bit of an approach, your strategy for business might be pretty similar, but for some reason, that little bit of approach gets something out of your client that someone else, that doesn't for someone else, right? So that's like one little example. Another piece that's probably one of the bigger examples is your actual process you take clients through.

So what is your framework? What's your method? What's your process? All those words could be used interchangeably here. It's that, and if you could say what part of your process is like the missing link that your people are missing that they haven't tried, that's what I've noticed lately is really what's helping my clients stand out because then they're not fabricating it, first of all. It truly is something they do every day with clients. And it's not this outlandish, ⁓ I'm a mixture of, I'm very theatrical and I love this and I love that when at the end of the day.

I'm a mom at home on my computer working. Like it's nothing wild, right? But there is a part of my process that I do that a lot of people I know to skip and it's why my clients have results. I can give you a little bit of an example if that helps from a client with the process thing. So I work with a lot of health coaches and I have one in particular who works with healthcare workers. She's a healthcare worker. And we are first go at this framework process, like really nailing it down. She gets client created results. So she's like, okay, I know I have a

Heather (28:09)
Yeah, please do.

Meg (28:25)
process that works. But it was hard for us to articulate, like, why does it work compared to other people that they've gone to? They didn't have the same results when they went to another coach. And we realized she's a health care worker. She understands the demands that health care workers have. The first piece of her process is burnout recovery, because what she was noticing was her clients were not having the success or the lasting weight loss that they were looking for when they just tried to go right to the plan. They had to deal with, we have a very traumatic life and job.

And we deal with things that a lot of other people don't. And so it's much more likely we're gonna emotionally eat. It's much more likely we're gonna be way more exhausted, especially if they have kids at home. So her first part of her process is burnout recovery. And she's always done that, but she just didn't know how to explain it and really articulate it. And now that's something that she's really putting out there. And actually landed a speech, I should connect her with you actually, in Vegas ⁓ in September, which is like a huge event for travel healthcare workers.

And one of the reasons is she really is like now being known for I'm helping you, yes, lose the weight and keep it off, but because of this piece of the process, it's genuine to who she is, she's experienced it, her clients experience it, and it's something tangible that differentiates her that's not so dramatic. I hope that helps like paint that picture a little bit.

Heather (29:43)
Well, I love how you described it as she was already doing it anyways, but didn't realize that, ⁓ that's the magic thing. Like how often does that happen? It's like all the time with us that we don't realize that the thing that actually is that magic thing that makes us stand out, it's the thing. Like we can't even see our own genius. I love it. Can you share, I'm gonna back up for just a second. When we talk about how like,

Meg (30:02)
We're already doing it. Yeah.

Heather (30:10)
how people try so hard to be different and it doesn't work. Do you have like an example that comes to mind or can you give me a little bit more around like what do people do in an effort to try to be like more unique and different and it just backfires?

Meg (30:17)
Hmm. ⁓

actually I can use myself as an example. ⁓ So I came back from postpartum so lost as we do, right? And didn't take enough time off to, I'm sure we could talk about that as well. And so I was like, I need more time. So I took some extra time. And during that time off, I thought my genius idea is gonna come. I am gonna find something unique and different. I'm so bored with my business. It's so stale. And I decided, you know, I love helping people pivot. I love helping people

very much in that where I was, come back from, it felt a little impostery because I was kind of going through it, but I was like, no, I'm going through it for a reason, right? ⁓ Remodel, remodel, biz remodel, that's it. And so I made the main message, biz remodel. Like I help you have this great business remodel and I had all these great stories and testimonials galore because I had been doing it for years. But when I put it out, was like, maybe two people want it, were really interested in it. I was like, okay.

This is not what I thought. My ego was very hurt. I didn't actually talk about this until earlier this year because I was like, I've figured out why. And one of the main reasons was it was so unique and so, I mean, not that busy-riddenness remodel is unique, but it was so specific and I wasn't actually speaking to what they wanted. Really what my people ended up wanting was it's not that they want to remodel, they want to actually make what they're doing work better for them. They want it to optimize.

They wanted to be able to work a little bit less hours and make more money and all that stuff we want. And I'm like, well, I know it's not a remodel. It's really finding what's unique about them and then changing a little bit of their business to match that. So the remodel's in there, but it's not the star of the show. And I had to like go through this whole process to get there, but it was an epic fail. And no one noticed. I noticed, obviously. It's not like anyone else notices these fails, by the way. I think we all think everyone's paying attention to us 24 seven, they're not. But I was like,

Ah, I tried to be too different. I tried to be too unique. And it's funny because what I'm doing now, I actually did back in 2021 and it didn't give me the profit in a launch that I thought it would. And so I went away from it. And my gut the whole time was like, this is your thing and you're just ignoring it instead of refining it and asking why it didn't work the way you thought it would. And now I'm back here and it's working. So it's really interesting that it's come full circle. Yeah.

Heather (32:44)
Yeah,

okay, so that's like what's crazy is that that's exactly for me is I've had the same

Meg (32:50)
I love it.

Heather (32:51)
business idea or the same angle that I've wanted to come out for years. But I was like, nope, it's easier to sell this other thing, or it's more tangible to sell this other thing. And instead of trying to figure out what's the other angle or like, okay, the front door didn't work, let's go through the back door or the side door, open a frickin window. I think that unwillingness to commit to something and then jump to something that we know is safe and works. I think that's a very real thing. So I've worked with that in the last two years, too.

Meg (32:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, 100%. It's funny,

it's because I used to love talking about pivoting and remodeling, and as I'm going through it myself, I'm like, it's not as dramatic as we think. Even myself, like, I burned my business to the ground. Not really, though. It just looks a little different, but it did. To me, it feels like I burned it to the ground, but that's not actually what happened. yeah, I think it's, I don't know, it's the theater girl in me. I'm like, what's happening so dramatic? What are you doing?

Heather (33:44)
I think it's rough.

and all of us, like that's literally, we're all very dramatic. did the whole, initially you and I were going to do our interview during my pivot series, my refresh series that I did in the spring. And I'm actually glad that we were incorporating that here, but I'm happy with this conversation. So I'm glad we didn't do that. that like those episodes that I did around refreshes and pivots, I got more messages and more feedback on that because it's so relatable. Like it doesn't matter how long you've been in business, every business owner wants to change or burn it down or refresh or pivot.

Meg (33:47)
Yeah.

I

100%.

Heather (34:15)
Like it's just the evolution of it. Okay, so I love this connection. I wanna explore this idea of you use the word when you went really specific. You talked about like you niche down too far, niche down too far, whatever the fricking word is. So that's an interesting thing, right? Cause so many people hear down, get more specific.

Meg (34:15)
Yeah. For sure.

Heather (34:38)
Can you give me your take on that? Like, specificity matters, but sometimes it's a hindrance. I would just love to hear you riff on this idea around, like...

Meg (34:40)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

I love this conversation because I'll see people make such blatant like, niching is silly, you're the niche. And then I'll hear people say, no, that's not true, you need to have a very specific niche. And I think both can actually be true. ⁓ And the reason I say that is because, even with like, I think my twin mom account is a great example of this. I niched down.

to twin moms. Now I wasn't selling anything, so I will say that. It wasn't a conversion monetarily, but I did get brand deals and I had a lot of followers and a lot of people on engagements and things like that. And I niched down to that, but they didn't stay for that. They actually stayed for me as a personal brand. So I did become the niche, which is why once I started my business up again, it became exhausting and I kind of stopped posting because I was like, oh yeah, I don't want my sons to be the star of the show. don't even.

love showing them as much anymore, so I'm like, I have to be. I am the brand. that's kind of an example of both were. But I think when it comes down to niching, this health care client of mine is actually a great example. We've been toying with the idea in the last two weeks or so, she's a rad tech in health care. And we said, well, let's test just talking to rad techs. And we like looked it up. And it's obviously a much smaller percentage than just health care workers in general, and even then like nurses, which is

another area she was thinking of going. And so we're like, let's just test the messaging and see if there's enough of a need. And so far in the last, it's only been like a week that she's been really gearing towards it. Her content is getting more engagement. Now we can't say if it's going to lead to sales, but she even rad techs within the healthcare industry have a very specific.

⁓ experience. She was telling me about just like how people think they're just button pushers and she's like, that gets us so angry and like, I don't know what any of that means, but she does, right? And so even within that she can connect to them on such a specific level. But the cool thing is she's still going to be attracting health care workers. So all this to say, in my opinion, if you can get pretty specific, but it can still almost have like, I don't know if the word is auxiliary, like people next to you, if it can have

other buckets of niches feel very like, oh, a lot of what they're describing sounds like me. I think they can help me too. Then it actually can make your message even more powerful from my experience. So I have another client who's been really targeting educators lately, mom educators, right? But she's also people who are outside of just education, people who are just moms who go to work and are struggling with their health. They're struggling or they're connecting with their message because again, a lot of the similar problems.

I just noticed niching helps if it helps you get more specific with your message. It's not so much the person, it's the feeling and the everyday experiences. And then people outside of that are gonna reach out and be like, hey, I noticed that you don't talk about this, or you're not working with X, Y, Z person, but can you make an exception for me? And it's like, yes, of course, I want to work with you. Does that make sense, that kind of distinction?

Heather (37:55)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it really goes to this idea that it goes against our

like our logical thoughts that the more specific we are, the more exclusionary, I don't know if that's a word, but will be, but it actually pulls those other people in. So, great example, like I have, think about on my podcast, right? It's very clear that I work with entrepreneurs. I don't really work with professional speakers. I'm not helping people build speaking businesses. I help people who already have a business use speaking to amplify like whatever it is they're trying to do. But I get people who are building professional speaking careers. Heck, I get people

Meg (38:03)
Mm-hmm.

totally.

Heather (38:32)
People who work in corporate who just talk a lot and give presentations and run events, they listen. So it's this idea that when you are clear around what you do, you actually attract more people because instead of it being like this generic thing, they're going, ooh, I have problems that are similar to that. It's not that exact problem, but I have problems that are similar to that and I'm a smart person so I can extrapolate what you're saying and apply it to my own situation. It's really good for...

Meg (38:46)
Yes.

that.

Heather (38:59)
⁓ I'm DIY learner. don't know if we talked about this before. Okay, so I'm not a, I'm not a like, if you teach me something, I'm not going to do what you tell me to do. Like I am not a follow step by step. know a lot of people are. ⁓

Meg (39:03)
No, I don't think so.

I'm not surprised by that, just knowing you. I'm like, that checks.

I love it.

Heather (39:17)
I just do what I do, right? But I'm,

I've talked about this before, I'm a manifesto in human design. So I'm like wired to not do what people tell me. And in fact, like you tell me to go left, I will go right. Like, nope, I will do what I want. So for me, as I'm like listening to information, even back when I was in corporate, I was listening to all these entrepreneur podcasts and reading all these books written for

Meg (39:28)
I love it.

Heather (39:38)
like entrepreneurs, I was not, I was an executive. And I, in my head, I was going, how can I apply this? How can I apply this? And I think like, this is something that we forget that we don't have to talk to everyone to make a bigger impact. The more specific, as you were saying, like the more you speak in their language, their everyday, the get inside their head, the more you're gonna pull more people in. And you have to honor that other people are smart. And even if that specific situation didn't apply to them,

they're easily gonna see themselves in that situation because they're gonna pull the parallel.

Meg (40:11)
100%. I remember hearing this many years ago when I was in network marketing, but it stuck with me and it was like the exact scenario like you're saying isn't the commonality, it's the feeling that resulted because of it. Someone could lose a parent and someone could get divorced and they feel the same feeling of loss. And they don't have to go, I lost a parent or I got divorced, but.

I have felt that deep sense of loss and I know I need help with this, you know, or whatever it is, that connection. So even if you think of that through line of like that emotion, because people buy, people biologically obviously, but they also buy very much emotionally. So that's a kind of a common thread that can, you know, help bring people in. Yeah, for sure.

Heather (40:51)
Yeah,

you know, okay, we're gonna go on another side tangent here for just a second. Like, with what you're describing, the words that come to mind for me is empathy.

Meg (40:55)
Love it.

Mm.

Heather (41:02)
When you as a person, you're able to experience empathy by relating to someone else's feeling, someone else's experience, you then feel your own experience through their story. And the reason why I say side tangent is like this is totally a side, like total side tangent. I...

Meg (41:20)
I love it. ⁓

Heather (41:22)
We're in a weird world right now. Weird for so many different reasons and we've been in a weird political climate, like very aggressive climate for now, I mean years. And one of the most interesting things that I have noticed is the ability to have empathy for other people has gone by the wayside.

Meg (41:32)
Yeah.

Heather (41:45)
Like instead of people seeing like, you have a different opinion or you're experiencing another thing or this other thing's over here. Instead of us trying to feel what they feel or like relate to other people's experiences, we push against it and say, no, it's wrong. And it's interesting because our world is so online, we don't have experiences to demonstrate empathy. I don't think enough.

Meg (42:00)
Yeah.

Heather (42:09)
And I think that's part of a huge problem that we have in our world right now. But I love with what you were saying is it is the best illustration of empathy. And we can just use the case study of marketing, like create empathy with our marketing. But like the better that you get at eliciting empathy, and I don't mean sympathy. don't think that's different. People feeling sorry for you or people being like, that sucks for you or ⁓ or good for you and your success.

Meg (42:23)
for sure.

Yeah. Yeah.

Heather (42:38)
Empathy is when someone strums up their own feeling and relate to it internally, even though they're not having the same experience, which is exactly what you're talking about. Like, I just think we need to have more empathetic ⁓ mindset or an empathetic ⁓ at center of things. And I just think it would one, make the world a better place, but two, it'll help your marketing more too.

Meg (42:43)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm. Yep.

100%. ⁓

you put that so perfectly. And as you were saying, that kind of made me think of like, you know, parenting again. There's a lot. I feel like you go through a lot in that postpartum, like empathy and feeling like you have the best laid plans before you have your kids. And then it happens and you're like, ⁓ like I said, I would never sleep train. I thought, sleep training. That's like so mean. That's horrible to the child. And then I...

I had twins and even if you didn't have a twin, it was horrible. And we sleep trained and it was the best thing we've ever done. And I'm so glad we did. But I'm like, even that, I had to go. I had to have empathy. Like, my gosh. Yeah, not everyone's perspective in parenting is going to be the same. And boy, is it going to change too when you're actually going through it. And there's still going to be people who disagreed with the way we did it. And that's totally fine. And I understand it because I used to feel that way. And now I get the other side too.

And so I've just experienced that specific thing so much in parenting, so many times that I'm even as you said that I'm like, I really want to even like very intentionally do that with my marketing too. I think I do it naturally, but now I'm to take a little bit of like a filter through it because I think you just put that so well.

Heather (44:10)
Yeah, it's, the other thing that I'm reminded of is the Teddy Roosevelt quote that Brene Brown made very famous recently in her, what, Dare Greatly book. And it's the idea around like the man in the arena. I don't remember the whole quote, but it's the idea around the people up in the stands of the arena are so quick to judge and so quick to like theorize and whatever, commentate on everything on what's happening. But really the only thing that matters is the people in the arena doing it. And I think this goes into,

when everything we're talking about today, but really thinking about when it comes to like getting into the mindset of your ideal person, you have to actually step into their world and their arena and think like them. And I think a lot of times we accidentally, as the expert or as the teacher, we actually go back up to the stands and we not like in a bad way, but we look down on our person.

And again, not unlike a we look down because we're better at that, but we're like in the bird's eye view because we know better and we've walked in their shoes and we know the path that they're going to get at. But what happens is when you're sitting in the stands, you do that more like preachy thing. Whereas you said earlier, I wrote it down like you don't talk about what they care about. And like, so that is just all of this is just circling around as a really good reminder around marketing doesn't have to be hard, but it feels hard when you're not coming at it from the right viewpoint.

Meg (45:07)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, think you just hit the nail on the head. That's like one of the hardest things I notice clients struggle with is going back to that. And they'll say something that they so badly want their person to care about. They're like, oh, but they just, once they're in, they're gonna care about this. And I'm like, yeah, but they don't yet. They don't get it. They're gonna ignore you, because they're not there. And it's so hard to go back. And that's why.

I really encourage people, I still do it, to talk to your people where they're at. Whether that's hopping on a call and doing a typical market research call or sending out a survey or having DM conversations or just stalking other people's pages and seeing what people are saying, you have to, especially in 2025, it's a different world. Like you just said, it's a different world, it's a different buyer's market. It's just so different than it was many years ago. And so I'm constantly learning, okay.

this is something they don't care about or this is a new problem that we didn't have five years ago that they have now. It's just changed so much. So it's like good to just kind of always have your, you I guess on the pulse or whatever that phrase is.

Heather (46:33)
Yeah. Well, and there's

this idea that once you are established, right, and you've, you're already through that part, like I'm beyond doing ICO research, ideal customer avatar research, right, as people talk about. There, and I even heard someone a while ago, I'm like, I'm not doing interviews. I don't have time for that. And just like, what would you say to someone who's like, I know my person, like, I don't need to do those interviews. Like, what would be your spicy, like, Meg moment?

Meg (46:41)
Yeah.

Yeah.

⁓

I would say how is that working for you? Seriously, and if you're crushing it and you're making all the sales you want and you have all the clients, then great, then you probably don't need it. But if it's not and if you're complaining about that, that's probably why. And you know what's so interesting is like myself, a lot of people I know who have, whether you've...

gone through a motherhood journey, or you just have had a lot of changes in your life in the last few years. I mean, everyone has, right? When you've been in this business so long, you have to remodel, you have to pivot, you have to go through these changes. And it's like this like humble, like ego death thing that we kind of have to go, I don't know everything.

Sure, I've had this success, but I need to go back to the basics. I need to go back to the drawing board in many ways. And I did that hardcore last year. It was very humbling. And so I would say, like, do you have the business you actually want? If you don't, you're probably out of touch with your person. The further and further you get, the more successful you get. If your client is...

at the very, very beginning, you're just getting further away from them, further away from understanding them. You have to get back in their psyche. And so it's like, I'll never stop doing that stuff, honestly, because it keeps me like on the nose of like what's actually happening with them today in this market.

Heather (48:13)
Yeah. And do you ever find, going back to some of my earlier experiences, sometimes when I had interviewed customers, I didn't realize this, but the questions I was asking were actually not helpful to identify with what you're talking about, right? It was almost like I was leading the horse to water. Like I was asking questions that served what I wanted them to essentially say or shine the light on what I wanted to talk about versus truly listening. So do you have that experience with your clients and do you have to smack them around a little bit?

Meg (48:42)
Yeah,

definitely, definitely for sure. Well, it's even interesting if I'm doing a client testimonial interview, sometimes I'll ask questions and I'm like, oh man, that's not the answer I wanted. But I'm like, but it's the question I asked, you know? And I also think though, like sometimes the answers we don't necessarily want, I hope this makes sense and isn't too heady, like is actually what your people need to hear. So for example, I had a client who I interviewed who had a lot of success in my program and she was some of her...

She was sharing some of her hesitations before joining and I was like, no, she's putting all of these new objections in their heads now. I'm like, no, now they're all gonna be like, yeah, that's a good point, that's a good point. But then when we got around to the results, it's like, but look what happened when she overcame those. So it's like, at first I got a little nervous about it and then it actually served the purpose. Because again, it was just real. And I just find it's kind of a theme of this conversation. When it's true and it's real, it tends to do well. It tends to do better because it's.

what people are actually thinking and feeling. And you're addressing that versus trying to skirt around it.

Heather (49:41)
Yeah.

I love that you brought that up because I think that's, mean, we're talking about like sales conversations because a lot of people really get freaked out by those. And for you, example of like interviewing a past client who brings those up, can be like, shit, how are we going to handle these objections, right? People are so freaked out about objections. But I mean, maybe this is a like a... ⁓

benefit that I have in my prior career. used to literally teach sales and objections from the stage. And I learned from like a great guy who taught this that objections essentially are unanswered questions. And I think one of the things that I think we all need to do better is stop resisting the things that our person is thinking anyways. Like you can't like if somebody's thinking in their head, holy shit, that's way more money than I wanted to spend.

Meg (50:18)
Mm-hmm.

Heather (50:34)
If you like hide from addressing the fact that your thing is more expensive than other things on the market, like they're still thinking it. That thought doesn't go away. You ignoring it isn't gonna change the thought. So I always think about like with little kids, when my oldest son was really freaked out that there was, he went through that monster in the closet stage, right? The simplest thing to do is turn on the lights and just see there's nothing here to be scared

Meg (50:46)
Good point.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Heather (51:00)
Right?

And I think like objections or things that your person says that you're like, shit, they think that? Like just turn on the lights and talk about it. Right? Like if you don't address the internal thoughts they have, like, do you think that they're just gonna resolve them on their own? No, you gotta talk about that shit.

Meg (51:03)
it.

Yeah,

100%. Yeah, totally. I couldn't agree more. Love that.

Heather (51:23)
⁓ okay.

So let's, ⁓ let's we kind of wrap up here today. We talked about messaging, we talked about social media, we went on a slight left turn talking about the political climate online. Like, what would you like I just want to give you the mic for just a moment of like someone who's listening to going okay, I'm resonating with all of this. I'm trying to I'm trying to dial in what I'm talking about more in my business. I'm trying to get more, get some traction, whatever that looks like for them.

Meg (51:32)
We went all over today. I love it.

Heather (51:51)
Where would you recommend for them that they really focus on in this next season?

Meg (51:55)
Yeah, you know, one of the biggest things, I think I wrote this in an email for next week, that I know people are really resistant to is they're so fearful of being redundant and boring. And when I look at the people that I really love how they're running their business, they're very successful, they're saying the same thing over and over and over again from all these different angles. But it all comes back to that same thing. And I think that's like,

Like we were saying before, it's not gonna be a light bulb moment all the time that it's gonna come to you, but you're already doing it. Your main message that you need to figure out, you already have that process, that piece of your framework that's different from someone else. You already have it. So I would say spend a little time trying to figure out what that step is. Like what is it about what you do that really does give your clients that light bulb moment or does make a difference for them? And then how can you make that the main message that you're selling?

because if all roads can lead back to this is actually the solution and you can say it from just different angles, you'll literally never run out of content. But then it's not gonna be confusing for people because they're not gonna be like, well, you're selling this today. but you're known for this. but you also help people with this. You can secretly help people with a lot of different things, but if you're also marketing it that way, it's very confusing. And so that's like the biggest thing I'd say is get comfortable saying the same damn thing over and over and over and over again. I promise you can make it fun.

Heather (53:11)
now.

Meg (53:19)
But that's the biggest thing I've been focusing on with people and myself, my own self. I'm like, I've been saying the same damn thing for about a year now and it's working, but I have to keep telling myself, it's okay, keep going, keep going.

Heather (53:29)
this

music to my ears as someone who like preaches, this is why you need a freaking signature talk even if you have no plans of speaking on a stage. It's the idea of like you need to know what are those, I call them like what are your greatest hits. Like if you were to stand up and talk to your ideal client like there should be the same damn messages over and over and over again. So I love that you said that and I think.

Meg (53:43)
I love that.

Gas.

Heather (53:54)
kind of relating to just side note for anyone who joined our conversation today, you have to hop over onto Megan's podcast and hear our conversation when it comes out on her show. I'll let her talk about that in just a second. But I went on quite a few rants on her show around AI. And I want to tie the two together here is with what you were just talking about, whether it's your unique story, your unique experience, your unique credibility, your main messages, those are the things that are going to separate y'all from.

the shit about AI as you talked about at the start of the show here today. Like that's what's really going to set you apart and get people to continue want to come back to your content and come back to your program and services again. So I am curious, Megan, your take on AI in business right now as it relates to all this.

Meg (54:38)
Yeah, ⁓ our conversation was so good. I cannot wait till that comes out. So my take on AI, I personally, I think it's helped a lot of people kind of just get out there and...

It's done one of two things. One we talked about on the podcast when you were on mine is it's actually had people lose their voice and rely on it way too much. But then I've also seen it help people just get going and ideating. And that's how I personally use it. And I've experimented actually since our conversation, it really impacted me and my clients so far because I've shared it secretly with some of them. I was like, I am gonna, which I don't usually use AI.

first for anything, but I said I'm gonna just write my own post and not even put it through there. And back, you what I used to do all the time back in the day. It takes a little bit more time, but let me see how it feels. And over the last few weeks I've been doing that and I'm telling ya, it's so much better. And I'm not saying don't use it, but what I have been using it for is ideating. Going, okay, I have these ideas and I'll voice note more so.

I have these ideas, I have this main theme, this main point I wanna get across. I don't say go write my post for me. I say what are some key things I should hit on based on what you know about me, my client, my tone of voice, I like jazz, and then I'll take it and I'll go write my own stuff. So I really use it as a brainstorm kind of now. And maybe an editor after I do a very good clean sleep first. So that's personally how I'm using it right now.

Heather (56:06)
⁓ Okay, I love that you brought up because I don't want the takeaway from like when we talk about AI and be like, my gosh, so we shouldn't use it. Like, hell no, we should all be using it. But it's figuring out what's the way that's gonna get you past the thing that keeps you stuck. So I've been thinking about that since like just in our conversation today when we started off by talking about social and the hook.

Meg (56:14)
Yeah, no problem.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Heather (56:28)
Right? So it's like that's something for me

is I know that's a, that's a place where I get stuck. So for me, that might be a really great brainstorm or even what you were saying earlier around as the expert, might be in your own lane, but it might not be what your ideal client thinks about. So you could even use it to like push and be like,

Meg (56:37)
Exactly.

Heather (56:47)
I know my person doesn't really care about this, but how can I phrase this in a way of things that they actually care about, right? You can push your own thinking when you can't see another perspective. So I love that you brought that up. let's do two things. I know you have an amazing podcast. So let's talk about where people can connect on that. And then you also have...

Meg (56:53)
Yes.

for sure. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Love it.

Yeah.

Heather (57:10)
I'll let you determine what resource you want to share because we were talking about a couple of them at the top of the show here because I know people are like, yes, teach me, tell me more. How do I do all the things, Meg?

Meg (57:13)
Sure. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah, I love it, I love it. So Business Not As Usual is the name of my podcast. We rebranded very recently and Heather's gonna be on it very soon and my gosh, it was such a good conversation, I cannot wait. ⁓ So go wherever you listen to podcasts, you'll listen to podcasts right now, Business Not As Usual. We have some ⁓ guest experts but I also do some like mom unfiltered, how I'm balancing the two and then just strategy shift sessions and.

All different types of stuff over there. ⁓ And then for the resource, I'm actually releasing it, depends when this comes out, but very, very soon. It's very new. As we're recording this, it's very new. Like literally put the finishing touches on it today, which is exciting. ⁓

Heather (57:56)
Hot off

digital press, people!

Meg (57:58)
Yes, yes, yes, yes,

which is always cool to talk about it when it's like brand new, you're like so jazzed about it. Versus like, it's been out for years, I've been talking about this so much, like we were saying, redundant, right? But it's called the strategy behind my client's 10K plus months. And I'm taking one in particular, it's a process I've used with many, many, clients to help them reach 10K plus consistent months, mostly as coaches or service providers. But I'm taking one specific client case study, like in depth.

Heather (58:03)
⁓

Meg (58:25)
And that's why I think it's pretty unique. It's a four part process. We're giving her post examples. We're giving the names of her programs and how she upsold and downsold. So it's not just like, find your story, use your framework. It's like, yes, and here's specifically her process. Here's what she did. So you really get a behind the scenes peak. I'd work so much better with examples. And so I was like, I wanna create the resource that I want. So I was selfish with it.

Heather (58:49)
Yeah.

Meg (58:51)
So that's available and it's free right now. So I'll give you, we'll give you guys a link and you can go opt into that. Yeah.

Heather (58:55)
We'll put all of that in the show notes and link to

as soon as it comes out. If you are on my email list, I will be sending out the link when the episode goes live on your show. But just side note, that case study thing, it's freaking genius. It ties back to with what we were talking about earlier around specifics work better because even if the same exact situation, like let's say it was a service provider, but like I'm a coach or I do other types of things, just like what we were talking about earlier in our interview, like seeing the level of specificity,

Meg (59:04)
awesome.

Heather (59:25)
y'all are smart. So you're going to be like, ooh, that is different. But here's how that would work for me. Or here's how I could apply that in my business. Like, I just love the idea that you created something so beefy and specific because examples will like ignite the idea light bulbs like crazy people. So I love that. We'll put them in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you so much for our conversation today. You were just light. You were a gem.

Meg (59:30)
exactly.

For sure. Exactly. Yay.

Thank you.

⁓ my gosh. I think the same of you. I'm so glad that three years in the making was worth the wait. We did it. We got here. So, so happy to be here. Yay.

Heather (59:56)
Alright, well

friends, thanks for making it through another episode here on the Ramble Refinery. We'll catch you on the next one.