Michelle (00:04):

Hey, welcome to my podcast. This is a podcast where I'll be teaching you all the systems and strategies you need in creating your visibility so you can turn your passion for coaching into a profitable business. I'm your host, Michelle Cue. I am a visibility coach, content and email marketing strategist, international speaker and author, as well as the founder of Elevate Like Coaching that just say that I know a few things about overcoming seemingly impossible obstacles in life and in business. I'm on a mission to be the champion that helps you to get to the top of your mountain, one courageous step at a time. Welcome to the show.

(00:51):

Today I am speaking with a professional coach and consultant, Daniel Macca, my favorite lead trainer from IPAC Coaching. He is a highly accomplished coach and trainer with extensive experience in coaching, executive entrepreneur, and university students. Daniel is here to share his view and what it takes to grow your own coaching business. With a background of psychology and MBA in organizational behavior, Daniel has a unique talent for helping individuals and organizations overcome internal as well as an external block to success. And his unique approach is using a combination of focusing strategies, awareness, and reflection tools that is an action-based sequence in order to help his client to get unstuck. Now you don't wanna listen to me. Do you want to listen to Daniel Macca? So that's bringing him to the show today?

Daniel (01:50):

No. Hello. Hey <laugh>, how's it going?

Michelle (01:54):

Thank you so much for coming.

Daniel (01:55):

Hey, my pleasure. I was just sitting backstage enjoying that the lead in. Wow, fantastic. <laugh>, that's

Michelle (02:02):

Fantastic. We have a couple of our friends, Elise.

Daniel (02:06):

Hey

Michelle (02:07):

Elise, who here? And then Steven is also here. So we have a lot of your supporter here today joining us. Yeah, I wanna choose, thank you so much for coming to the show because I remember going and volunteering for you during the month and you are just such a great person, a great coach with such great insight. And one of the things I started to work on my show is I wanted to bring coaches who have started a successful careers as a coach to share their experiences. So I'm curious, how did you get into coaching?

Daniel (02:41):

Yeah, thanks. Well first let me just thank you for having me here and it's an honor and it's always been such a pleasure to work with you and I can't wait till we circle back and do that again. So I got my start in coaching kind of in a circuitous way. So just a little bit about me. My background is in psychology and I worked in community mental health for about 15 years. So I was a therapist, and program manager, did a little bit of everything in that agency and I knew it was time for me to move on. I just had been having that feeling. A lot of my clients describe it in the work that they do where they just don't have that sense of fulfillment anymore. And they know the job, they can do it, and they can show up every day, but it just doesn't give them that excitement.

(03:24):

And so I was looking to leave, I was looking to do something else and decided that I was going to go back to graduate school. And I did. And I was in my M B A program at the time and I had a leadership professor who was also a coach. And I had heard of coaching, but I wasn't really sure about what it was exactly. I think I had some of the common misconceptions about what coaching is thinking, is it consulting? Is it telling people what to do? Is it even legitimate as a career, a career, or a profession? So I took her to dinner and we sat and talked and she gave me some information and she gave me some other contacts to reach out to. So I just really began my coaching journey through extensive research. And that's what ultimately led me to the coaching school that I attended and actually now teach for.

(04:13):

And I discovered ipec and I went through their program and I was immensely impressed by the rigorous nature of study and the detail to attention of not only turning out really qualified coaches, but coaches who embody what I would call a coaching mindset, which is one that's infused with positivity, possibility, and really built on self-reflection and self-growth really resonated with me. So I left coaching school, I graduated from my graduate program and probably less than two months later, I was laid off from my job. That was it, <laugh>, like, thank you very much. In fact, it was December, so it's coming up on the anniversary of that. So suddenly I was without an income, I had two children and I was married, I had a mortgage and I was like, oh snap. What do I do now? And long story short, I just decided that's the time I put my stake in the ground and I go on and become a professional coach, paid <laugh> for doing what I do. And I became a business owner almost overnight. So I had a lot to learn and I just threw myself into it and just learned as much as I could. I made probably every mistake one could make in the book, but I had a commitment to success because my bridge was burned. There was nowhere else to go other than to try to get a job in corporate. And thankfully they wouldn't have me. So <laugh> how I got

Michelle (05:38):

Started, I love the story. I did not know this about you. And so just to recaps, you study in psychology and then you went on to get your M MBA in graduate school and then you came across iPad. Along that line, you lost your job. What was it like sitting at home? You are looking at two children, you have a family too, you got mild tooth feet, but you have no income. What was it like in that moment?

Daniel (06:04):

Well, it, it's really interesting, and this is the truth, it was almost like a parallel process. So I just gone through ipec and you're familiar with ipec and the IPEC philosophies and those types of things. So there was a part of me that felt like, I know this is exactly what is supposed to happen. I knew that I had co-created being where I was because I knew that there was a big part of my soul that was being unfulfilled in the work that I was doing. And I was just kind of passing the day. So I knew that this is right where I needed to be and I knew that I could make what I wanted happen, happen. And then there was another part of me that was freaking out. There was the other part of me that was scared and questioning. So on one shoulder I had fear, and on the other shoulder I had belief and it was really, which did I wanna feed? And which whichever way I decided to feed well, that was the one that was going to own the day. So I tried as much as I could feed into the belief, feed into the possibility, and do the things that will lead you to be successful. Meanwhile, I was occasionally frightened and I built a lot of contingency plans. What, how could I build some safety nets in case I needed a longer runway? And thankfully it all worked out just as it needed to be.

Michelle (07:29):

Yeah. Was there any moment where I'm sure, was there any moment where you were sitting there and you were almost caving to the fear? At least from my audience, a lot of them are at the cusp of sure, quitting their corporate job. And one of the things that I was struggling with was once I quit, I had no income. Sure, I don't have anything coming in. And what if in that moment I decided to cave into that fear?

Daniel (07:57):

Well, thankfully the universe had different plans for me because I think it takes more courage to leave your job willingly knowing that you can stay than it did for me to get kicked out of the nest. But the universe said, you need to get kicked out of the nest cuz you'll just stay and delay. I mean, maybe I would've continued to build a business but slowly more slowly. So in my case, the giving in, not necessarily giving into fear, but the more practical, right? There's practicality that took over. So I applied for jobs while I was doing my business building. I even had job interviews, but it became really clear in those interviews, this isn't it, I don't even got a job offer. And I was like, I can't take this. If I take this job that's going to steer me away from what I really think I should be doing wasn't something that would've been interesting to me.

(08:50):

So I think in those moments that that's why I built in those backup plans of what can I do to continue to bring in some income or how can I, in my case, thankfully I had a minuscule amount, but for a little period of time I got some unemployment. I was on unemployment for a couple of months while I was building my business, I still had to apply for jobs and go through all the hoops, that sort of thing. But it was enough to make it through to pay the cover, the expenses and that kind of thing. But I was also, I wasn't as picky about my clients as I am now. Meaning I'm in a place now where I don't wanna work with everybody and I don't need to, I wanna really work with people who I feel a deep resonance with and we're going to do great work together.

(09:38):

Back then I could be less selective. I was just saying, yes, yes, let's work together. And that goes to another piece too is I'll use a musical reference, building your chops in the beginning, coach or work with everybody you can to just continue to hone and build your skillset. And that was valuable too. But I think again, there was that deeper part of me that knew that this is what I want and I'm going to make it happen. And there's a couple foundational tenants that I had already begin building in my business in the idea that why you're doing it. My why for being able to be successful was that I had a family to support and that was a big why I wanted to keep my house, I wanted to keep my vehicles, I wanted to be able to afford the lifestyle I wanted. So it was like I put my stake in the ground and I went forward and I just made things happen. And then just as much as I thought I was going to make things happen, I call it the universe. The universe opened up opportunities that I would've never expected. And I think that was because I was showing up ready.

Michelle (10:50):

I love the fact that where you talked about, you know, weren't picky about the type of clients that you were working with initially, and you basically just say yes to coach and you were just in that process. It was just teaching you every moment how to be a coach. Absolutely. And I'm sure through that experience you also learned a lot about yourself. I was visiting your website this morning and one of the quote that you included was from Ralph Emerson. Our Achieve wants in life is someone who shall make us do what we can. What does that quote means to you?

Daniel (11:26):

Well, for me that means accountability and working and having a workout partner. And I believe that as a coach, that's one of the things that we provide, is this idea that we know inherently within ourselves that we wanna do and be certain things. And we are not as infallible as we'd like to be. Sometimes we need someone else who said, Hey, you said you were going to do this or that you wanted to do this, let's go let's, it's not always easy to get up on a cold morning, put your shoes on and go out and run. But if you have someone that you're going to talk to later that says, Hey, how'd that run go? Or you're going to be meeting your buddy outside in 15 minutes to go for that run, that accountability partner is crucial. And you can expand that to beyond just simple tasks like running or finishing a piece of work that can be as profound as growing into the human being that you want and having someone there to bear witness and ask you those difficult questions that are really easy to ignore should we want to. So I think that's what Emerson was getting at with that quote. And I'd like to think that's what I provide when I work with other people. And that's certainly what my coach provides for me.

Michelle (12:44):

Have you ever been in a position where you had to ask this really harsh question, why are you doing what you do? I mean, I know a lot of time we ask why it can come off, depending on what energy level we're asking that question, it can come off a little bit offensive. What do you mean why this is my passion? What do you mean why? So, have you ever been in that situation where you had to ask that question in order to get someone to go?

Daniel (13:13):

I think that there's been times where I've been compelled to be really curious about someone's choices and really hold that up as a mirror for them to reflect on because there are certain patterns that we as humans find ourselves in. And what do you know we are getting the same results over and over again. And having that mirror to reflect on as to, well what led you to make to make that choice? I think that opens up some awareness. And I think self-awareness is the key to consciousness and consciousness growth. So if we wanna really change what we're doing, we have to become more aware of who we are and what's compelling us to do what we do. So yeah, those questions come up and most of the time, thankfully, I believe that I have a deep enough rapport with the people that I work with, that they trust me and know why I am asking those questions.

(14:10):

And it's really all geared towards becoming more aware of the choices that we make. I'm sure some people have felt a little sting from being seen, right? It's not always easy to be seen. And sometimes we see that because they become emotional, they're not necessarily frustrated or angry with me, but they can become really emotional and sometimes become frustrated and angry with themselves. Once you have that awareness, oh my gosh, I've done the same thing 20 years in a row in my life. And then there's all kinds of things that can come from that. They can feel disappointed. They wasted so much time and so on. But the reality behind that is there's no such thing as wasted time, and there's no way they could have been doing anything different because they didn't have that awareness. So self-compassion is another big tenant that I really work with on my clients'. Understanding that along with self-growth comes.

Michelle (15:07):

So we talked a lot about how you got into coaching and what it was like for you in the early phases of your business for someone who's starting out new, and I know a lot of my audience are starting out new and they have no idea where to go. What is the most essential first step for people who's watching?

Daniel (15:29):

And it's such a good question, Michelle, and I think there's starting out, and then there's reinventing as when your business grows, you hit different growth points and then it's almost like starting over again anyway. And almost to some extent, I feel like I'm at that place, I'm reinventing how I approach doing business. So there's learning. So the first thing is always knowing what you want and learning, but I think it all comes down to know your craft. The first piece is get as good as you can and then accept that you are as good as you are where you are and own it. So that comes some confidence. But look, when I started, and maybe this was a blessing, this was before email marketing funnels, or maybe it wasn't, maybe they were out there and I just wasn't aware of them. But without all the technology and Instagram and Twitter and Facebook and you know, name it.

(16:20):

And there was, there's so many distractions almost that I think people forget that what you really need is yourself. And if you have a client, great a client, and then some way to communicate with them. In the early stages of my career, a lot of my clients were local, so I sat with them in an office and we talked. But let's say you don't have local clients, you need a telephone or some way to communicate, whether that's zoom, whatever platform or medium you communicate across. So those are your kind of foundational pieces because you are at that point your business, you are the product and the service, and then you have your client. So a way of delivering that service in a way that's consistent. So then basic business things that you need. You need a bank account, just have a bank account. So you're going to put your money that you earn from your client into that separate bank account.

(17:14):

You need a way to schedule your clients. Now, in the beginning, you don't need to be fancy, you don't even necessarily need a scheduling program. If you've got Google Calendar or a calendar, you schedule them right there on the calendar, you send them an invite and then you talk. I'm a huge proponent of keeping it simple because I think sometimes new coaches feel like they have to have so many things and they get overwhelmed that they forget the simple piece of just get out and coach. That's how you're building your chops. And so you got your bank account to collect your money. If you're an not in person, I used to take checks, gimme the check, I'll put it in my bank account. So if you're from a distance, there's wonderful easy ways to capture money. You can use something as simple as PayPal or Venmo.

(17:58):

I think I would be a little wary of the fees that are charged for collecting money. I think PayPal might be a little high at this point, but no, I still use Squarespace. I send invoices to my clients using Squarespace and I have them pay me that way. So you got your money collection and now once you get enough clients that it makes sense. Get yourself a simple scheduling program. There's a ton out there that are free or very inexpensive. Again, you wanna be spending money in the right spot. It's not on all the fancy things in the beginning, not in the beginning. At least that's my methodology. Some people wanna go bells and whistles in the beginning and more power to you if you got the capital to do that. In the beginning I, I was bootstrapping and I figured I'd grow my business technology as my client base grew.

(18:45):

The other thing I think that's helpful to have is a way to capture notes. Now, in the beginning, again, just piece of paper works just fine or a word document. As you get a little more fancy, you might want to have a client management system where you've got some backend piece of keeping track of your clients, keeping notes on your sessions and being able to connect with them. Nowadays it's, its almost goes without saying, you need some presence in the world though. A website, a simple website, again, you do not need to go out and hire a designer to create a 15 page interactive market can go to the main website builders. WIC is one, Squarespace is another. I know there's others out there. And build a simple website that just basically says, this is me, this is what I do, here's how I can help you.

(19:42):

And the most important thing that a lot of websites overlook that I notice is a call to action. What do you want people to do when they come to your website? Do they want you want them to reach out to you to schedule an appointment? If so, make that really obvious. Do you want them to put their information in so that they can receive something and you can contact them, make it obvious, make it simple. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to websites and I can't even find contact information. I would love to reach out to you and buy what you got, but I don't even know how to reach, I don't even know how to contact you. You got an amazing looking website, but I don't know how to reach you. So I think if you have those basic things, you're off to a good star. I don't know, am I missing anything? I don't know.

Michelle (20:29):

No, no. I love everything that you just shared. I feel like this episode worth a million dollar, literally worth a million dollar because this is really how you get started. And I see a lot of coaches asking you, Elise is saying Google site is a great free option.

Daniel (20:46):

There you go.

Michelle (20:46):

See, and I feel like a lot of coaches that I come across, and even on social media as I'm browsing through everybody's questions, I see a lot of people asking, where do I begin? Or people are confused, where do I start? And I remember my first client was someone I was working out in the gym and he literally passed me a check. I had a check, not Venmo, not PayPal, it just <laugh> check a physical check. Yeah. I'm like, ok, I'm in business. Yes, check. Yeah. And I also love the fact you share about the website because this is totally v i p exclusive info, insider info about Daniel. So Daniel is probably the least technology tech savvy coach that I know of.

Daniel (21:30):

You think that you actually think I lead you to believe that, but it's not entirely true. And that's just because I had an old cell phone for many years. And

Michelle (21:41):

When I go to your website, your website is probably the most simple, easy-to-navigate website that I have ever seen. And it proved to say that you can be a very successful coach without all these belts and whistles. All these stuff that's showing up on your website. Just get started. Look at Daniel, like his website. Go check out his website. Yeah, it's exactly what he said. An about page. There's work ripping page and there's a contact page and describing the services that he's offering. It's a very simple way of getting clients.

Daniel (22:17):

And here's the truth. I mean, it's so funny, Michelle, you don't know that Michelle and I have this ongoing

Michelle (22:22):

Conversation, <laugh>

Daniel (22:23):

Conversation about technology. It's because I had an old cell phone and I had that old cell phone because it fit in my pocket really well and the bigger ones. But I actually am fairly tech savvy and I've built a number of websites in other platforms and coded in H T M L and that sort of thing. Although now I feel I am a little behind the technology curve, Michelle, after watching your intro, I feel like I really need to brush up on that so that I could get something. But I want my website to be simple. I want it to be simple because look, I wanna spend my time talking to clients. As much as I love building websites, don't get me wrong, I wanna spend my time with clients doing that. More client facing. Now you remember I was seeing there's a crossroads right now. I'm reaching that point where I'm like, okay, now I wanna reinvest some time and go back in and do some tweaks. But I always want whatever I'm providing to be simple, clear, concise, understandable, and know how to navigate what it is. But yeah, no, there could be some truth, Michelle. I could spend some more time learning more <laugh>, more water technologies. But

Michelle (23:28):

So how do you like it yourself? So you are not, we're keeping things simple. So how do you market yourself?

Daniel (23:34):

Well, again, I can tell you how I have been and what's been successful for me. And early on, I don't even remember, I wish I could attribute who gave me this piece of advice, but what they said to me was, what do you like to do? In other words, what do you have fun doing? What do you love doing? And I'm like, well, I don't know. I love talking to people, I love presenting, I love being on stage, that sort of thing. And they're like, well, that's your route for marketing yourself. What you love to do, you're going to do over and over again. And business is a numbers game. And I mean, it's as simple as that. If we just go to raw business, business is a numbers game. You gotta put yourself in front of enough people who know you exist to find the ones that wanna work with you.

(24:19):

So for me it's been how do I position myself in front of people to talk to them so that they can get to know me? That's really what it's about. People are going to work with you if they know you a little bit. If they go, yeah, I like you and I trust that you're competent, that's critical. So for me it was how could I get speaking engagements? How could I put myself in front of people who are potential clients? And that came through a variety of ways. I spent a lot of time doing lunch and learns, doing free talks, workshops that would draw people. Now the other thing that I had going for me in the beginning was I'd been a counselor in this community for 15 years. So people already knew me and knew my skillset. So I started with what I call my warm market and expanded outward.

(25:09):

And I've done guest appearances for different things at universities where I'm given the platform to speak. But for me, if you put me up on the stage and I can talk and talk on a subject that I'm interested in, leadership, growth, you name it, anything, I know that I can engage somebody in that room enough that they wanna talk to me a little bit more about what I do and then we have a conversation to see would we be a good fit. So largely my marketing efforts have gone through in-person presentation, types of conversations. Other thing that I've done is I've done a little bit in terms of social media, but really that's just so that I have a face out there. It's really not where I, at this point in time, acquire clients. And again, I've built my myself to a particular level of reputation.

(26:04):

And I guess, I don't know, being known enough that 90% or more of my clients now are referrals, people referring me. But you have to work to get there. But again, if you are somebody who loves to write, then use that cuz you're going to do it over and over and over again. If you love social media and you have the skillset like Michelle does, get out there and do that. It's not like one day you cross the line and all of a sudden the floodgates open every day you show up and do a little bit.

Michelle (26:38):

Yeah, I think people forget that, you know, walking into coaching, not entirely from a blank canvas, it's a new experience. Yes, true. But there's already had some skillsets that you bring into coaching business that you can leverage, you can use. And I think people, coaches are forgetting that. So a lot of times we associate ourselves as, oh, I'm a new coach, I'm a newbie coach. But it's not entirely true. It's not true. No, at all. You do have some talent.

Daniel (27:04):

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You have every talent that you have ever had just using it a little differently, right? Yeah. Everything you've ever done in your life has led you to the point where you are now and you just harness those same skills and do that. So even when I was, here's another story, you don't know this about me either, Michelle. When I was still working at the agency as a counselor, I started another business. I've always been entrepreneurial. So I've started a number of different businesses. I helped started in random medical practice with my wife, but this was back before all of that. I decided to get involved in a direct marketing company and something that I really believed in the product, it was something I really believed in. It had to do with insurance. And specifically for me it was employee benefits. So I got comfortable being uncomfortable.

(27:54):

That's where I really cut my teeth and learning how to bootstrap and run a business. I at one point was calling 25 to 30 company owners or trying to get into the decision makers so that I could get my product as one of their employee benefits. And so I got really used to and with being told no, I learned to not take nos personally. And I knew that if someone said no to working with me, that's okay. It's just not now. It meant that I was one step closer to somebody who might say yes. And that really kind of built my ability to recognize that if I wanted to be successful, I had to be okay with putting myself out there confidently and believing in what I was doing and also being okay that not everybody's going to say yes. And that I didn't have to throw my hands up in the air and go, oh, this is never going to work. Simply because somebody said, no, we're not interested. And I think that's true in that business and I certainly know that it's true as a coach. Yeah.

Michelle (29:00):

Yeah. Funny you brought that up because I got into this whole marketing side of coaching is because I was stuck. I was feeling that I wasn't getting seen, I wasn't getting any clients and I had struggled to get clients. So I started to learn about direct marketing. I'm the kind of person who love and enjoy writing. So I wrote numerous emails to all the friends and family I know of anybody who's on my newsletter, I'm going to write to them every single day. And I was at the point of, I was writing emails every single day and that's how I got into this whole direct marketing. And I'm like, no, just what you said, it's okay for people to say no, no, no. Right now it doesn't mean nos forever. So as long as I get my food into the door, I'm okay. I've got a voice in this world. Yes. Where do you see our coaching industry is heading within the next three to five years?

Daniel (29:52):

Yeah, that's so interesting question. I think I continue to see it grow and become more mainstream. Well, I've already seen some significant changes. So coaching used to be in the corporate space, a place that people were sent on their way out the door. If you were about to be fired, the last box they would check before they could fire you is to send you to a coach. Now that's changed. And now coaching is something that a lot of companies are using for their high potential employees. They're also bringing coaching philosophy and coaching skills and coaching programs into the corporate space. And that tells me that it's going more mainstream. If it's being accepted in corporate culture as something that's beneficial and useful, well then it, it's kind of found its way mainstream. So I see it going that way. And I also see that potentially because of that, I mean, I don't know this and nobody's told me this, but there's potentially some more regulation that might get put in place around it.

(30:58):

So more rigor around making sure that coaches are trained, companies are already sort of self-selecting and doing that. Usually they're interested in hiring people who are ICF accredited, but it potentially could go the way that some other industries have where they wanna put more, I dunno, safeguards in place if that is a safe way to say that. The other thing I see is people saying, well now the market is going to be overwhelmed and saturated and there won't be room for me to make money. Now, that's one way to think, but I would challenge you to open up a, well, we don't have 'em anymore. Back in the day, there are these things called yellow

Michelle (31:36):

Pages. Yellow pages. Are you familiar with

Daniel (31:38):

This? And if you opened up the yellow pages to the lawyer section, no, that was three quarters of the book. So I don't think that the marketplace is going to become oversaturated with coaches. I think there's always a place, I think that you will always find clients who are meant to work with you. But I would also say this, it's not a bad idea as a coach to diversify how you generate income. That's one of the other things that I learned that I feel has really served me well. Meaning all of my income is not via one-on-one clients. I think that having a variety of ways that you earn income, be it workshops, classes, speaking engagements, one-on-one clients, group coaching, those types of things allows you to have a little more flexibility and not feel like, oh my gosh, I've gotta close this client, otherwise my one source of income is not going to be providing money. But I see the industry continuing to grow. In fact, research shows that it, it's continuing to grow.

Michelle (32:39):

Yeah, I feel like after the pandemic, the industry has grown so much, it makes sense that I C F would be putting some type of regulation or looking into putting some type of regulation to distinguish whether these coaches are certified versus the one who are maybe haven't think about becoming certified. And I think it's really important. As I have gone through the program myself, I feel like I spend so much time and energy in investing myself. I would certainly like to see some type of regulation that's in place.

Daniel (33:14):

I go back and forth on that. And the only thing that makes me even feel like further regulations is helpful or necessary is really more around client education, just so that a client knows what they're getting. If we do a good job as coaches who are certified, representing who we are and we're professional and what we stand for, I think that might be enough personally. But it's hard to say. I've seen advertisements, I just saw one the other day, maybe they know I'm a coach or I'm interested in coaching, but I was on Facebook and I got an ad to be a coach and it was only going to cost me $7.

Michelle (33:51):

And I was like, oh my gosh,

Daniel (33:53):

That's a lot cheaper than a lot of the other programs. But the

Michelle (33:57):

One I came across with $49

Daniel (33:59):

<laugh> 40, you were getting ripped off,

Michelle (34:02):

Obviously. Obviously I need to be on your Facebook algorithm,

Daniel (34:06):

<laugh>, right? I can find the bargains, but I mean, how well trained are you really going to be for $7 Now, maybe phenomenally well trained, I don't know. I didn't sign up for the program, but chances are probably not. But I know what the qualifications are to become a professionally certified coach and they're rigorous. And I'm actually on my path to become what's considered an MCC C level coach with the I C F. And it is quite rigorous and I appreciate that. But that's the value I wanna provide to my clients. No, that's not to say that there are people out there who've never had training that maybe are fantastic coaches. I wanna inhibit them from being able to practice or craft, I don't know. But again, I kind of come from the standpoint, I want my clients to know what they're going to get, and I want them to understand that I'm somebody who's been trained, I'm certified, here's what it means. And I have ethics that I work under and committed to providing you with the best service I,

Michelle (35:05):

I think it speaks values like integrity and having that values. I do want to respect your time and I love to wrap up the session, but I do know that you brought something really amazing for our audience. It's something called Discovery Session that sales. Can you tell us a little more about that?

Daniel (35:23):

Yeah. Well, so one of the things I learned early on again is if I don't know how to talk to a client or a potential client, then I am probably going to struggle with having clients. And again, remember I said, I've made all the mistakes that one could make. Well, yeah, that was one of them. Early on, I used to be so excited to tell P people, oh, what's coaching? If someone ru the day you walked up to me early on and asked me what coaching was because then you were going to be stuck there for 15, 20 minutes while I just spouted everything that could be said about what coaching is and how amazing it is and so on. I came to realize that that's not really what people are interested in. They wanna know how can you help me? So eventually I just created this way of talking to clients that made, or potential clients, I should call them potential clients that made more sense.

(36:20):

So I started to devise this understanding of, well, what's the first thing I need to know? Well, I need to know what somebody wants. I need to understand why someone would even want to engage with a coach. And I just built this process out of that understanding that the foundation of it though is having confidence in yourself and in what you have to provide that it's valuable. And I had to make sure I didn't have any hangups around talking about what I do. It wasn't like I'm bragging when I say I can help that. And in fact was something that is legitimate. I truly believe that if we have these conversations, it's going to be a benefit to you. So that guide that I developed essentially just walks people through the process of understanding how to conduct a client session. Because sometimes the other thing I found was if you don't have a framework for that conversation, then the potential prospecting client might just take it in a whole different direction that isn't going to be beneficial to you or them.

(37:24):

So it's a structured way to have that conversation that gets the information out. What do they want, what do they need? Get a feel for understanding each other, what's their life going to be potentially if they work with you? And then also having a way to confidently talk about, this is what I do and here's how I do it. And then the last piece that I hope I included in there, and I believe I did, is if you wanna work with that person, ask for that. Ask for that <laugh> like, I would love to work with you. Right? Don't just have that conversation and then say, okay, well if you ever think of me again, gimme a call. But no ask, Hey, listen, I believe I can help you. How interested are you in working with me and being okay if they say no? Okay. Hey, awesome.

(38:08):

Because then the other piece that I hope is infused in that, I don't know, it's been a while since I really looked at it, but I hope I wrote it with this in mind, is I want that conversation to be valuable regardless of whether or not they say yes. Meaning, if you and I are going to spend time having this conversation, I want that to be a value for you. And then you can go on about your life and I'll know I put something good in the world and if you wanna work with me, wonderful. If you don't, well maybe someday you will. So that's what that is.

Michelle (38:38):

Yeah, I will love to have that. And I know Steve said also, please share that <laugh> discovery call guide. So I will include the link into the episode notes so that everyone can go and download. And you can also reach out to Daniel via his website. He has his contact. You won't be able to miss any of the contact information on his website because you, you'll

Daniel (39:01):

Find me. <laugh> should be able to find me.

Michelle (39:03):

Yeah, you'll be able to find it. Yeah. Any last word of advice for us today?

Daniel (39:09):

Boy, well, before I get to the last word of advice, I just wanna mention, Michelle, when we were talking, you were saying that link might be funky. It could be that lack of expertise in technology. So if anybody has any troubles with that link, just let me know because apparently I wrote it in a language that's not on my own apparently. But we'll make sure that that's working. My piece of advice is a couple pieces of advice. I actually give this to my kids and they probably are like, oh god damn, I'm so sick of hearing that. But I used to coach high school lacrosse. I coached lacrosse for a lot of years, and I would always tell my players, don't wish for more than you're willing to work for. Don't let anybody fool you into thinking that you don't have to put in a little bit of sweat equity to make things happen.

(39:54):

You have to put in some energy and effort. You have to do the things that are going to get you to where you wanna go. The other piece of advice that I would say is, well, I'll give you two last pieces. One, I is believe in yourself, especially if you've gone through a program where you've been trained to become a coach, you have the skills that you need to be successful as a coach. Believe in your capacity to make a difference. And the world needs people like you. There are people out there in the world that are hurting and they're looking for you, and they need to be able to find you. So my last piece of advice is put yourself out there broadly and proudly and do it every day. And the right people will find you. And if you're struggling or you're stuck, find somebody who you trust to work with to help you on that path. I certainly did myself, if I've got a long line of mentors and people that I worked with that helped me along the path and experts that they paid to help me, that when I didn't know something. So I'll probably reach out to you, Michelle, and be like, how can you help me make that amazing intro that you have on your show

Michelle (41:07):

That will require a little bit of technology? You need to be text savvy. You

Daniel (41:11):

Know what I'm going to do though for you? I'm going to put together something that's going to blow your mind. I'm going to send it over to you. And you're be like, oh, he really does know how to do these things.

Michelle (41:19):

Alright, you're on. I'm going to, I'm going to hold you accountable that, there

Daniel (41:22):

You go. I'm going to go back to Emerson's Club. Yeah,

Michelle (41:24):

We're going to go back to chief wanting life is someone who shall make us do what we can.

Daniel (41:32):

Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle (41:33):

And I think the can is a little too in the present tense, I think what we could,

Daniel (41:39):

Yeah.

Michelle (41:40):

The possibility of what we possibly could

Daniel (41:43):

Do. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you had that ready to go and pull back up again. <laugh>

Michelle (41:49):

Show you how.

Daniel (41:52):

Yeah.

Michelle (41:53):

Daniel, I wanted to thank you so much for coming to the show. I had such a great time, and I will make sure to link the discovery session that sells the three guy into the episode notes. I will double check you with the link to make sure that it is working link so that we can get it out to the audience. What you share today is just absolutely wonderful and valuable. Like I said, it worth a million dollar, cuz if the audience were just to take all what they have heard today and start implementing them one step at a time and just go out and be coach and start coaching. Don't worry about all the fancy belt and whistles and fancy stuff and just go out and

Daniel (42:33):

Coach in the beginning. Just talk to people. Just talk to people. Let 'em know what you do. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It's been my pleasure. I mean, there's so much more I'd love to share with you. We'll have to get together again another time or Yeah,

Michelle (42:45):

I'm

Daniel (42:45):

Going to have to revisit my podcast and I'll leave and you

Michelle (42:48):

<laugh>, I need to bring you back for episode number two. <laugh> I part you

Daniel (42:52):

After I get my really fancy thing built so that when I can play

Michelle (42:55):

It. Yeah, nah, you are perfectly, you are exactly where you need to be.

Daniel (42:59):

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Well, it's been a pleasure, Michelle, and I've really missed our conversation, so this has been really wonderful for me.

Michelle (43:05):

I do too. All right. I'm going to put you to the backstage, and if you wanna hang out just a minute and after I close, we'll we'll have a little more conversation.

Daniel (43:13):

Sounds great. Bye everybody. Bye

Michelle (43:16):

Bye.

(43:20):

Hey, beautiful. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast and found value from this episode, I will love for you to hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform and leave me a rating and review. One thing I was struggling in my early years in business was finding the right people to connect with. It feels like I was on this entrepreneurial journey on my own, and sometimes we all just need friends who can share our dreams and hopes someone who can relate to what we're going through as we grow our business together. If you are woman coach who is ready to grow your coaching business and looking for strategies to get seen, get her and get higher, I want to invite you to come and find me in our community on Facebook at Get Clients With Storytelling. This is a community of women coaches who want to grow a coaching business by creating engaging, visible, and authentic content with storytelling for their business to get more leads and attract more clients. I will see you at Dominic Tea Party.