On the latest episode of The Tony Steuer Podcast, I spoke with Thomas Kopelman, co-founder of All-Star Wealth about financial literacy for everyone.
Thomas Kopelman is a financial planner and the co-founder of Allstar Wealth as well as a blogger, podcaster, and speaker. Thomas was recognized as one of the 23 best financial advisors for millennials by Business Insider.
In this episode we discussed:
On the latest episode of The Tony Steuer Podcast, I spoke with Thomas Kopelman, co-founder of All-Star Wealth about financial literacy for everyone.
Thomas Kopelman is a financial planner and the co-founder of Allstar Wealth as well as a blogger, podcaster, and speaker. Thomas was recognized as one of the 23 best financial advisors for millennials by Business Insider.
In this episode we discussed:
You're listening to the Tony Steuer Podcast, where Tony interviews financial literacy advocates who are changing the conversation on money. So you can catch up on the latest trends and ideas in the world of financial literacy and education. Presented by Paperwork. Be prepared for life.
Tony:Welcome to the Tony Steuer Podcast presented by Paperwork. I'm pleased to be joined today by Thomas Kopelman. Thomas is the financial planner and the co-founder of AllStreet Wealth, as well as a blogger podcaster and speaker. Thomas was recognized as one of the 23 best financial advisors for millennials by Business Insider. Thomas, welcome to the Tony Steuer Podcast.
Thomas:Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited for this conversation.
Tony:Yeah. I'm excited to talk with you as well. So as we jump in, you know, can you share with us about, you know, what is your origin story? How did you get started in financial services?
Thomas:Yeah, so I, I guess mine's probably similar, but little different, like growing up my whole life was centered around basketball. I was like really good at basketball was gonna go play, had D1 and D2 offers ended up going to like the best D2 school I could go to cause overall the best basketball program, my goal was always, you know, I'm gonna play four years there probably go play overseas. Um, ended up getting hurt my freshman year and realizing like, ah, this I'm not, I don't love it the same way I used to. So I was kind of like, you know, I, I transferred to Butler University in Indianapolis had no idea what I wanted to do. I worked at Eli Lilly, to consulting firms, to insurance firms, to a tech startup and really like all of them. I just didn't find a lot of meaning in it. Like in basketball, you feel your impact, like your hard work is seen, the way that you play has an impact on your team, which has an impact on the goal that you're trying to achieve. And I think I really was looking for a job that had something similar to that. And so it kind of fell in my lap. I ended up working at a broker dealer right outta college. Didn't know too much about financial planning other than like, Hey, my life was significantly impacted by the fact that my grandma did really well financial. Had a great, she did great investing with a financial advisor and that led to a great life for my family, that's all I really knew. And so I started there and I realized real quick, like, Hey, I wanna work with millennials, millennials need financial help. But where I'm at is not allowing me to do that. Like having focus on products first and insurances and selling mutual funds like that is just not the way to work with young people. Young people don't need products. They need advice. Sometimes those products come into play, but everything starts and leads with a financial plan and advice. And I didn't really have a good way to charge on that. I had, I had no way to market because it was go to weddings, go to networking events, you know, go to all these things and come back with leads. And I was like, if financial planning is so important, then why do I need to sell? Why can't I attract? And so my whole thought was, I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna go somewhere. That's gonna help teach me how to attract people. And, you know, I had a bunch of offers when I was getting ready to leave, ended up taking the lowest paying offer, but the best opportunity. So I mean, maybe people here know his name, Justin Castelli. He's like the third ranked financial advisor by Investopedia. He believed all the same things I believed like grow through content, educate people, attract, build a business by having great service and just being good to people. Um, and never trying to sell them on why you need him, but just, Hey, here's what, what I do. Here's how I help if that's right for you, come work with us. And I just loved that approach. I got to work with Justin for a little over a year and he was kind of at the point, he was like, Hey, I don't feel like you're getting too much from me at this point. I think you're ready to go launch your own firm. And so officially launched my own firm in September of last year with my partner Treyton DeVore, and really like with Justin, it was great, but I could, I built my brand, but the firm brand was different than my brand. And so now I was able to build a firm that's all centered around helping people in our generation accomplish their financial goals. And so typically who we work with is late twenties to early forties, high variable income, business owners slash creators, equity comp, and people with crypto. Like I know that sounds like a lot, but a lot of those things go hand in hand, like young business owners, a ton of them already involved with crypto and they have variable income. And then there's like people with equity comp are also most of the time interested in crypto who are like, what are the things that pain points they have things they want to know about and how can we learn and master those things to help people where they're at in life.
Tony:Well, fantastic. Yeah. A lot in there to unpack, that that's all fantastic stuff. You know, I, I think, you know, one, well, one, I'd love to talk a little bit more about basketball. I play basketball and I've been talking a lot about the application of basketball to financial literacy, you know, with skills coaching, practice, you know, that's required to actually be effective, but I, I think what you said, I, I think is really important is you know, that you're leading with the need rather than the product. And I think that's so important is to be able to flip that conversation, you know, are people really, is that resonating with your clients?
Thomas:Oh, for sure. I mean, I think a lot of my clients came from places where they were sold products too. Or, Hey, I started to work with my parent's financial advisor, and all they wanted to talk about is the one investment account I have. Cause like for me, I, all my clients are a different stages. Like I just had a new client who she has a decent amount of credit card debt and other debt, and for the first probably two years of working together, all we're gonna do is be attacking different debts what is the order, how do we, at the same time build some of your emergency fund, you know, do we do your 401k if it doesn't have a max, those type of things. And then I have other clients who are business owners, you know, in their thirties and we're spending so much time on cash flow in the business and how to grow their income through the business, those type of things. And I have other people who are like, Hey, we have, you know, the main focus is we don't have a ton of extra income. We're in our E S P P plan. How are we gonna, how much do we hold onto? What do we sell? How do we use that to fund our goals? And so everybody has different goals and they have different things they're trying to accomplish. My job is what role do you need me to serve? How do I help you accomplish those goals? Some people are more foundational. Some people are more into investment. Some are more into life planning. I just wanna help people accomplish their goals. And that's why we have kind of that fee structure of pay us monthly. It's like a yearly fixed cost of working with us is I'm aligned in to help you accomplish all your financial goals. If I'm not helping you do that, you're gonna leave me versus the AUM advisor or the insurance product advisors. Like you really only are required to help on those things because of what you're paid on. And they're probably not gonna leave you cuz you're helping their investments are still doing well. But it leaves for young people that like investments are such a small piece of everything that's going on. And it leaves so much room for the, or so much feelings of like, wow, I'm not getting everything I need from this person. So eventually they end up leaving to find somebody who's going to help them accomplish what is important to them, not just manage the investment account that they have.
Tony:Well, that, that that's great. And with that fee model, it's almost, you know, more like you are a paid advisor to that client in a true sense of the word advisor, rather than just a, you know, investment answer, which is super important and you know, managing assets and you know, but that's a facet of what I think a financial planner should be is, you know, that, that they do that, but they're really helping their clients solve problems in their financial life and navigate, you know, so many different things. That's that's that's great. Good stuff.
Thomas:I was just gonna say like, I think what's important to us and important to young people is like, we collaborate with them. We don't tell them what to do. I think a lot of financial advisors, like I think they think they are you, you like, they're their dad like, Hey, here's what you have to do. Go do it. But that doesn't work with young people. It's you're not gonna be like, Hey, you have 30% of your net worth in Bitcoin and somebody's gonna say go sell it. You're not gonna go sell it. You're gonna leave that advisor. And so what my job is is help them view it in a, without any emotion. So, Hey, here's the risk of what you're doing. Great. Here's also the upside of what you're doing. Hey, you know, you know, what could really help is if we build out a diversified portfolio, if we're maxing out these other accounts, we'll ultimately allow you to hold onto more here because all of your other goals are accomplished by what you're doing. This is kind of that gravy on the top and the, the better you do over here, then the more risk that you can take on a another side. And so helping them view through like, you know, maybe crypto or equity comp, help them just take the situation, view the information, why this route could be better than the other, but then ultimately know that they might pick that other route. And that's okay because that's what they feel is the best choice for them. I just wanna empower them to make the decision that's best for them with all the information in front of them.
Tony:It's great. And I, I, I think that's a wonderful approach. And I think, you know, that that's so different is, you know, with the cryptos, instead of giving that client, the advice to get rid of something that they really can't like for whatever reason is that you're working to help them figure out how that fits in with the rest of their financial life, rather than giving them advice. You know? I mean, that's why people, I, I feel people don't stick with budgets is because, you know, you're asking to make these changes that they don't really wanna make. Yeah. You know, that, that you have to help them figure out.
Thomas:And budgeting is a great example of like, I, I don't lead with budgeting. We start with, Hey, you know, Hey, what's your surplus based on revenue or income minus expenses. What are your goals? Does that put you on track for your goals? If not, you have two options cut spending or scale back your goals. I don't care what you choose, it's your life, but you have to make that choice. And if you just lead with, Hey, you need to cut this money and you need to invest more, but there's no meaning behind that. You're never gonna end up helping people do that. And so, you know, I had a client this week that I'm working with of, Hey, here are some of these goals. You have, we looked at his spending and he's like, oh, I could cut here, here and here. So I could free up money so that I put me more on track to hit my down payment at my house in two years. That is more meaningful to them because they're getting to what they want. If you don't know what, what they want, but you tell them what to do. They're never gonna take that action because it doesn't feel like anything important to them.
Tony:Yeah, no, that, that that's great stuff. And you know, the other thing, and I, I did wanna come back to it. I think you're really putting into practice the old adage, you know, that you have two ears and one mouth for a reason, and that you're listening to your clients rather than just talking at them. And I, I, I think that's great advice and it, it also applies, I think two advisors who've been in the business for a long time and even with more mature clients is I, you know, I know when I was, um, my, my, the predominant, this of my career was a as a life insurance consultant is that oftentimes, you know, it would puzzle me why somebody would keep a whole life policy that really didn't have a place in their overall portfolio. But instead of you continuing to nag at them to get rid of that policy is, you know, like, okay, well, how do we position it since you're still meeting your goals and not draining all your cash to pay the premiums. And I, I, I think that's, you know, a lesson that everybody can take to heart.
Thomas:Yeah. I think like, I don't know if it was Carl Richards who talks about this, but like my thing is, I just keep asking why, because what I've realized is that everybody has service level goals. Like, Hey, if I say, Hey, what are your goals? They're gonna say, I wanna get married, I wanna have kids, I wanna have a house, I wanna pay for their education, I wanna retire. It's like, great. You just said the five goals that every single other person I've ever talked to have said. Let's dig deep. Like, you know, what, what does that look like for a house? Like what, you know, why do you want a house? You know, why so quick? Or, you know, do you feel like that would be, you know, you just keep asking why, why, why, why? And a lot of times you get them to the point of like, wait, that actually isn't a goal of mine. Like, I, I don't actually wanna own a house. I don't wanna take care of a house right now. I'm single. I've just been told that it was a good investment. Okay. Well actually, it's, I mean, it's a fine investment. It's not a good investment. So how about I, you know, help you look at this clearly versus, you know, all these myths and biases that people have told you your whole life. So that way you can choose whether you actually want it because buying a house cuz it's a good investment is not the right idea, buying a house cuz you wanna build like build a life with your family, stay somewhere or not have to move better choice. But if you can't just go do all of these other things you like, Hey, I wanna pay for my kid's education through a 529 plan. Okay. Why? Well the tax benefit. Okay. Do you realize in the state that you have there's no tax deduction or tax credit for it? Okay. Great. Well, what do you think college looks like in 25 years? Well, I don't know. I think it's gonna change. Probably won't be as expensive. Maybe not as needed. Okay, great. So maybe we don't wanna be throwing end up with$200,000 in a 529 plan after you know this, but until you really like peel back the onion and help people like take their own thoughts and refine them, you can't really come up with an action plan or a course of which way to take
Tony:Well, that's great. And, and, and actually that, that reminds me of some negotiating courses that I took. Like, I don't know why I took some negotiating courses years ago, but that's one of the things is, you know, that, that was to the main points. You can't really change someone else's mind. You have to educate them to the point where they decide whether or not they make a change. And yeah. And it sounds like that's what you're really doing is helping people come to that decision on their own to, to do something rather than again, you know, just, you know, trying to prove out that they need to do something.
Thomas:Yeah. You can't force anybody to change unless they have the want to change. I think that's definitely something I've learned over the years.
Tony:Yeah, no, that's great stuff. So, you know, let's talk a little bit about The Long Game Blog, which is how, you know, we connected is, you know, what inspired you to start The Long Game blog?
Thomas:So when I joined Justin, like our thought was day one, I'm launching with a blog. Like if I'm gonna grow a blog is probably the best way to do it. Cause I think you can grow anyway. You could grow without a blog and just post on social. But like a blog is a really great way to have longer form content. You can cut it up and create more content out of it. It's a way for people to, Hey, I, every Wednesday I know Thomas has a blog and I, I took forever trying to come up with the name. Like I had like hundreds of names and I wanted to do something with sports. But then I was just like, man, if I'm working with young people, The Long Game, like viewing your finances as a long game is really one of the best sound approaches. Like everything we talk about with people always can be like the long game. It can always come back to it, but I just knew for me, like the way to grow was to attract the people who need financial help. The way to do that is through content education. Like that was my biggest belief. I'm never calling a friend. I'm never asking somebody to work with me. I don't do anything other than people find me online and reach out and book a meeting like that was my whole goal. And my first company told me that would never happen. That that's not the way to grow. It's never been the way to grow. And I was like, it's 2020. Like, are you, or like we're almost in 2020, if you're trying to tell me that people aren't trying to find their financial advisor online, you're wrong. And so I started there, worked on the blog, you know, and the piece of advice I give to every advisor is like, stop thinking that you're gonna start an RIA or go be an advisor. You're gonna launch a blog podcast newsletter post on three social media platforms all right away. Because all you're gonna do by doing that is be extremely average at all of that. What you need to do is find the one that you're gonna like the most and perfect it, like get as good as you can at it. Once you feel confident, you've sped up the time it takes to do it, then you move and add it in a new form. So for me, it was blog for the first few months. Then I added the podcast, did that for a few months, added the newsletter, did that for a few months, started to add some video, did that for a few months. Now I expand and post more, often more on Twitter, et cetera. And I just keep building it out and refining the way that I do it. And just try to meet people where they're at, because I always use this analogy of financial planning is not like I'm a consumer brand that sells like, you know, this t-shirt like Justin sells this t-shirt somebody might see that on Twitter. Like that's sweet. I'm gonna go buy it. Great people. Don't just see your post on social and say, Hey Thomas, Hey, that, that was a good point. I'm gonna go work with him. They don't what they do is they see me continue educating them, educate, educate, and then a year later, they hit a pain point about something I already wrote about or talked about. And they're like, oh wait, you know, I do need help on that, Tom. I remember Thomas talked about that a few times. The last year he probably can help me. I'm gonna reach out to him. And that's been my goal because think about everybody else. The only other advisors they really know in their life have been hounding them to sell them insurance or try to put them into some, you know, investments they have. I take the approach of all I'm doing is giving away tons of information for free. So that way you, you get educated. You know, I, the DIYers of the world are never gonna work with me anyway. So I'm adding value to them and the people who want help are just waiting to get to the point where they truly need that help. And they're gonna reach out to the person who's never asked for anything from them for.
Tony:Well, a and as well as it's ed educating them, because it shows that your heart is about education rather than sales. And I think that's important. The other thing that I think that you said is super important is, you know, to not try to tackle all these different avenues all at once is, you know, the typical advisor or, you know, they don't have massive free time. They, they may not have the experience across all these different channels. And each of these channels does require specific skills. I think that's really sound advice, because that's what people do is, you know, they get started, they try to post Facebook, Twitter, you know, LinkedIn, and then they kind of discontinue after a while because it's, it's challenging to keep up with it.
Thomas:Yeah. I would say that happens a lot. So what I always recommend is like pick the one, not the one that you think it's gonna work the best, but the one that you're gonna like the best, because content is a long form thing takes a while before you start to get any results out of it. And so if you're writing and you hate writing well in four months, you're just because you haven't seen any results, cuz it takes longer than that. So I think start with something that you like do there and then expand past that. And I think you'll be in a good spot.
Tony:Well, that that's great advice. So as we move through is, you know, one of the things you mentioned is about how people can move beyond their surface level goals, you know, that they think they want to determine the lives that they truly want. You know, what, what do you mean by that? And how can people do that?
Thomas:Yeah. So I think, you know, one example is we always ask why was go beyond the goals, but we use Kinder's three questions as well. So like our process fully automated, like after our clients sign on as clients in between the first meeting and the second meeting, about five days before they get a video from us that walks through what Kinder's three questions are and ask them to, to brainstorm these ideas. If they're single by themselves, if they're with their spouse, with their spouse. And that way, when we come into the meeting, we can really start to think about like, what matters to you? Like if money, if you had unlimited money, how would you change your life? That's a pretty easy one. If you had limited time, you only have five years left to live. How would you change your life? Okay. Today's your last day? You know, it's not what, what do you regret or it's, it's just like, you know, what did, what did you not get to do? Who did you not get to become? What did you wish was different about your life? And you find themes in there. Some of the themes from people are like, man, I would really, I would really switch jobs and I'd work in this industry or I would spend more time with my family or whatever. It's like, you just realize that everything you talked about was spending more time with your family. Like, why aren't you doing that today? You're like, well, because of work and this you're like, you never once answered anything that was about, I wanna most money as possible. Not one thing that you ever said was I need max amount of money. So then two years down the line, when they come to me and say, Hey, I just got a, I live in Indiana. I just got a job offer in California, double the income. I think I'm gonna take it. I can hold, hold them accountable, say, Hey, wait, your values have nothing to do with maximizing income. You make a good amount of money. And you said your regrets would be not spending time with your family and you're gonna move across the country to be far from your family. Like, do you see how those don't go hand in hand? And so like, I can help people make sure that the decisions that they're making and the things that they're doing are aligned with who they are, who they wanna become and the life that they truly wanna live. And I think that's an important part of being a financial advisor is, you know, money's goal is to take you from point a to point B, but we have to know what point B is. We don't need to have, like, it's great to have more money, but do you really wanna have significantly more money if it takes you away from getting to point B? Probably not. It's great to have extra money in your bank account, but not if you're not able to be and do what you wanna do.
Tony:Yeah. That's, that's so interesting. It's so just the, this morning, I was reading an article by a personal finance person that I follow and she was talking a little bit about FIRE and you know, that, that, you know, she, she goes, I I'm gonna, you know, I decide to start FIRE, you know, six months ago. And I thought I was gonna work over in the next seven years, you know, like 60 hours a week. And you know, you know, and what you said started resonating with me because it's like she said after six months, I, you know, she goes, I don't wanna work 60 hours a week, you know, because I'm giving up<laugh>, you know, that lifestyle.
Thomas:Hundred percent, I think that's like, I, I mean, I have people who are going for FIRE and wanna retire early and that's great, but I think like FIRE is good if you don't have to give up everything now, like if like for me, I, I know my, my life is simple. I live in a nice apartment. I don't really shop a whole lot. I spend frivolously on dates with my girlfriend and like, we go on nice vacations. I can live off of 50% of what I make. And so for me, like FIRE could be really realistic at an early age, but I'm, I don't feel like I'm giving up anything because I have a pretty solid income. If I was at a point where I was like, I can't go on nice dates. Like I can't, I, I don't get to travel every year. It wouldn't be worth striving to be able to save all those extra dollars because it is true. Like you only have one life. If everybody who's in their forties and fifties is like, biggest piece of advice is really enjoy your twenties before you have kids, before you do these things. And then there's all these other people that are like giving up all of their twenties. So then they can have their sixties. And it's like, I mean, I, I, I guess your sixties could be great, but for one that's not guaranteed. Like if you retire in your forties, none of your friends are probably retire and gonna be traveling with you all the time and hang out with you during the day. It's like, do you like, you don't wanna have to give up today for that. If you can still live today and get there. Great. If you have to give up a little bit great, but if you have to give up everything to just, hopefully one day be able to retire early and then for 50 years do nothing. Like, I mean, if you look at people in retirement, the people who have nothing are typically the people in the worst health, because you need something that excites you. And I think work optional is a great goal. Like I love helping my clients. I wanna do the same thing for me. Like my goal is by 40 I'm work optional. I will a hundred percent work. I love working. I, I literally would do this job my whole life. I love everything about it, but it is still freeing to know that you don't have to do like, have to make based on money. I get that. You just don't wanna give up everything for that.
Tony:Yeah. And, and I think that's the thing is to, to find some balance in, in what you're doing is, you know, there are certain things you can do in your twenties and thirties, you know, that you can't do like, you know, I was in a whitewater rafting when I was in my twenties and thirties, but you know, I'm approaching sixty. There's no way I could keep up that kind of, you know, schedule on the weekends, you know, doing all those outdoor activities. It's just not reasonable at my age.
Thomas:Yeah. Totally fair. Totally fair.
Tony:So that's great advice. So, you know, as we wrap up, you know, what's your number one tip on financial wellness.
Thomas:Number one, tip on financial wellness. I, I think for young people it's to automate your finances. I think like, you know, we're young, we love technology. We believe in technology, but yet most people leave their finances up to themselves of like, Hey, you know, I get, I get$7,000 a month, an income a month. I'm gonna spend whatever. And then at the end of the month, whatever's left, I'm gonna save or pay off debt or invest. And it's like research proves that you're always gonna spend more by seeing more. And so what I help people do is, Hey, you have 7,000 a month. Your expenses are 5,000. Well, we're gonna automate$2,000 a month out every single month. And then your job is pretty easy. I see$5,000 in here. My goal is to spend it so you don't even have to budget. It doesn't have to be 400 on groceries and 300 on dining out and 200 on clothes. Your goal is that your variable spending is similar every month. You learn that over time because you become aware of it. Like all my clients eventually become aware of it and do a really good job, but there's like, that's freeing because now you're not budgeting. And you only restricted to spending X amount of dollars on X amount of things like your months can change. And one month you would rather like go travel on a nice weekend. Another month, you would rather, you know, buy new clothes and that's fine because you have those free dollars. So I just think automating your finances is the key to really accomplishing the financial goals and not letting your human behavior take part and you mess up, overspend, don't save. And then you find yourself making little to no progress because you didn't just take that one extra step.
Tony:That's great. That that's wonderful advice, you know? So Thomas and, and I will post links to your website is where can people learn about you, where where's the best place, you know, is it LinkedIn, is it your website?
Thomas:Yeah. So I'll give you a few. So AllStreetWealth.com is pretty good place. Like everything about who we are, who we serve, what our fee structure is, what the process is, everything like that's great. ThomasKopelman.com is where I wrote all my blogs. So if you're just kind of wanting to read and learn, I think I put out a lot of great blogs. I, I think I've done like 104 straight or something like over two years of one a week. Twitter is probably the most fun place to follow me. Like that's where I, I probably post like seven to 10 times a day, ton of really great stuff, LinkedIn, which my Twitter is TKopelman. I'm on LinkedIn at Thomas Kopelman. I like LinkedIn. I post every single day. It's good. I just think it's way less engaging and a little bit more fake than Twitter, which is why Twitter is definitely my number one. And then I have, you know, a couple great newsletters and you can find both of those from those websites.
Tony:Fantastic. Well, Thomas, thanks again for joining me on the Tony Steuer Podcast. It's been a great conversation.
Thomas:Good. I'm glad that you felt like this was useful. And I had a lot of fun. Thanks for having me.
Tony:Yeah, you're welcome. And everybody watching and listening, thank you for tuning into the Tony Steuer Podcast. Oh, one quick thing. We talked about FIRE today. That's financial independence retire early and I'll put up some links to the concept on that as well. So thanks again for tuning in. Until next time.