On the latest episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I spoke with Maura Shaftoe, cash flow specialist at Let’s Plan about changing the way we think about money and our cash flow.
In this episode we discussed:
Maura Shaftoe, CCS, QAFP, is a financial planner and cash flow specialist. A cornerstone of Maura’s financial planning practice is dedicated to helping people maximize their earning power through effective budget, cash flow and debt management strategies backed by behavioral science. Maura’s coaching approach helps you build awareness and create financial ease while you build a resilient financial future. Maura is also a successful singer/songwriter.
Connect with Maura Shaftoe:
Website: https://www.domoneylikeitmakessense.ca
Website: https://letsplan.ca
On the latest episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I spoke with Maura Shaftoe, cash flow specialist at Let’s Plan about changing the way we think about money and our cash flow.
In this episode we discussed:
Maura Shaftoe, CCS, QAFP, is a financial planner and cash flow specialist. A cornerstone of Maura’s financial planning practice is dedicated to helping people maximize their earning power through effective budget, cash flow and debt management strategies backed by behavioral science. Maura’s coaching approach helps you build awareness and create financial ease while you build a resilient financial future. Maura is also a successful singer/songwriter.
Connect with Maura Shaftoe:
Website: https://www.domoneylikeitmakessense.ca
Website: https://letsplan.ca
Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and transform your financial future? Then you've come to the right place. This is the Get Ready Money Podcast with Tony Stewart, where Tony has insightful conversations with financial experts who are changing the way we think about money. Watch up on the latest financial trends and hear practical advice from Tony and his expert guests so you can build healthy habits that work. Be empowered with tips for implementing small changes that can have a big impact on your financial future. So sit back and get ready to hear from today's guest.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Get Ready Money Podcast changing the way we think about money with Tony Stewart. We're pleased to be joined today by Mora Schaftow. Mora is a cash flow specialist at let's Plan. In this episode, we'll be discussing Mora's thoughts on how we change the way we think about money and our cash flow. Mora, welcome to the Get Ready Money Podcast. Hello.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks for joining us, excited to have you today. So you know, to get started, this question I always ask everyone at the beginning is tell us a little bit about yourself. What is your origin story?
Speaker 3:Well work-wise. My origin story I started off in the automotive world. I went to school for auto mechanics, I was a service manager, I was a fleet manager, I was a lease manager, use car reconditioning manager, I sold cars. I basically did everything you could do in that industry and eventually my last job in that industry was a new car manager and I was really aware of the burden that I was putting on people by, you know, having high dollar payments and knowing that it was going to be a stretch for them, and I thought, ah, there's a better way that I can serve people. So I moved into another industry and here I am.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. So you know, tell us a little bit about you know, your cash flow specialist. What is a cash flow specialist?
Speaker 3:Well, a cash flow specialist is someone who really helps people find the holes in their spending, so in their spending, what they're spending every month, and it doesn't use a budget and it's not about needs versus wants. It's really a process of building some strategies and getting some guidelines in place and determining how much you need for your committed expenses, the things that have to be paid, and then what's left over, and that's based on your assets, your income, your debt load and your proximity to retirement. That was kind of a boring way to say it, but yes.
Speaker 2:No, no, that's interesting and you know. So I take your approaches not to give up lattes and then go from there, right?
Speaker 3:It's totally not. I would never tell someone to give up a latte. If that's how somebody starts their day and that's what gets them motivated for their day. If we can figure out how to make that work in their cash flow, they get to choose right. So I'm never telling people how to choose, but I am asking them to choose. I'm asking them to be intentional about the way that they spend. So we separate their bank accounts so that committed expenses are your income goes in, it pays all your committed expenses and then the other money goes into a spendable account or into the other accounts that we wanted to, where we wanted to work for us, right.
Speaker 2:Well, that's fantastic. So, you know, as part of that is when I love that approach, because that's what I believe in the financial services industry, where oftentimes lacking is letting people make the choice themselves, is helping them make those informed decisions and guiding them, but at the end of the day, it's really they should be choosing for themselves. You know along those lines. You know I'm curious, how do you build in like, let's say, saving for a goal, let's call it financial independence, like using that better than retirement is? Do you consider that a committed expense or where does that go into the flow for you?
Speaker 3:Well, often when we start it isn't a committed expense. It might not be in the plan at all or it might not be a sufficient amount of money in the plan. So anything that they've got going into investments, we usually try to keep that where it's going and by the time we've finished and gone through everything, we've found some money. And then we decide what we're doing with that money. So we're putting it into emergency savings, so that's not invested, that's just in an account. We're putting it to a short term goal, so something you can achieve within 60, 18 months.
Speaker 3:We're putting it if, depending on what we're doing with their debt, we may be reallocating some of that money to pay down their debt faster. And then we're looking do we need insurance? Is there financial investments that we've got to start looking at? Right? So it really depends on where they are and it depends on where the client came from to get to me, because I do get referrals from financial advisors and then I'm handing them back over and saying, okay, we've found $2,500. You need to put it to work now, right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, no, that's fantastic and I think that's a better way for people to think about this is that there can be a flow, but a lot of times it's just, as you point out, being mindful and paying attention and you may find that you have cash freed up from just making those decisions. So you know the other. You know one of the things you talk a lot about is behavior. So why is behavior a critical component of financial planning?
Speaker 3:Yes, it is a critical component.
Speaker 3:So, it's absolutely critical and I always say that when we're dealing with money, there's two sides to that equation. There's the technical, the strategies, the processes that you do with money understanding interest rate, understanding how to invest, putting money aside for whatever reason and then there's how we behave and what our habits are around money. And it's not enough just to know what our behavior is. We actually then have to have a plan so that our behavior is kept in check. Because even if you know I have a tendency let's say I have a tendency to pull all my money out when the market drops, and you know that that's not a great way to do it, If you don't have a financial planner on your side to sort of stop that from happening, you might still do it. So just knowing about the behavior, that's great, and you've got to have like a plan in place so that the behavior doesn't take you off track. You've got to have a plan in place to slow you down before you make a decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I think that's sound advice for anything is people tend to not think about that always when it comes to their money. But before you do usually anything like, let's say, take a vacation, most people have a plan before they go on vacation. They may plan their hotels, they may plan a rental car. Most people, maybe, when you're in your 20s, you might wing it and go somewhere and not have all those plans put in place. But usually for anything we make a plan.
Speaker 2:But when it comes to our money is we oftentimes wing it like, hey, cryptocurrency sounds great, I'm going to get some Bitcoin, but is that part of our plan? So, you know, I love that advice because I think it's a big thing you forget about. And then you know and, as you point out, it's the behavior aspect of it you know, is why are we doing it? Why does that seem like a good choice? So you know, do you have those kinds of conversations? When you're talking to people about the cash flow is like, why do you think you're spending money here? How do you have that kind of conversation?
Speaker 3:That's a good question. So I would say we work on identifying the triggers. I don't spend a lot of time well, I spend zero time berating any client about you shouldn't have done this and you shouldn't have done that. It's not helpful and I don't let them spend any time doing that either. Right, I don't let them spend any time berating themselves. I ask them to acknowledge where they are and build awareness about where they are, and then we move forward from there. So when we're looking at why they're doing this, I might have a bit of a different approach. I think that we can.
Speaker 3:I think, if we spend too much time on the why, maybe they need that, maybe they're going to need a therapist, not a money coach, right? So it's like what were the triggers to get you to do that? What's your process right now for how you're managing your money? Let's change some of those things. And then what I say is you take a small action and then the action consistently taking builds a new habit, and then you have built more confidence with your money and now you've shifted the conversation that you're having with your money. Fantastic.
Speaker 2:So when, for instance, yeah, I was going to pause the recording for just a minute. So I think, as you're pointing out is you can't look at where you've been. What's important is where you go, moving forward. Maybe try and identify some of the things, maybe helpful, but, as you say, you can't dwell on it, although that's why there's a whole growing financial therapy movement is because maybe people need somebody to talk to you about those things.
Speaker 3:Yep, for sure, and there is a money, is a relationship right? It's the longest relationship we're ever going to have, and so that's why it's yeah, that's why it's important that it is a good one.
Speaker 2:Right. So definitely, and I think that's something too is people do have hangups with their money and things like that. And it's like how do you get past that? Because if that becomes a roadblock for you, you're going to have problems finding financial success. So it's like you know it's understanding all of those things. So you know, as you point out, behavior is a critical factor. So you know, let's switch up into the get ready questions. If you're ready, I'm ready. The first question, all right. The first question is what basic money concept do you wish people knew?
Speaker 3:Oh well, basic money concept. Well, firstly, I do say allow yourself to become a student of money, because in society, what happens is, you know, you don't get somebody who's very well educated they're a doctor or lawyer, a dentist, a vet and they're like you know, they have this feeling that they're going to be judged if they don't understand money, or we all do. We all feel judged when it comes to money, right, and so I want people to really consider them to be a student of money. So you didn't go to school for this industry and so start learning as much as you can about it and continue to learn. That's one of the main things that I would say. And yeah, like really ask yourself, why do I think I should understand money, like what's my reasoning for thinking that? And then you'll probably discover you know what?
Speaker 3:I really haven't spent a lot of time learning about it, and so that'll give you an opening to start learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now I think that's powerful. It's, you know, to allow yourself to start moving forward, because we have this expectation. We feel like there's this expectation and we should know something about money, but where would we have ever possibly have learned it? And you know, that gets back to what you were saying earlier about being a little bit gentle on yourself and not dwelling too much on the past, because if you didn't know something, how could you be expected to make a different decision?
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right Heaven and Hell, and the other thing too, when we, yeah, when we do talk to people in the industry.
Speaker 3:People who are in the financial services industry have chosen to be in the industry, so they have a desire to learn more about the industry. Whatever drew them there right? And all of us, we all have our biases, and you know, I was recently doing some work coaching a group of financial people and we were talking about. You know, what do you do when you're faced with someone who's carrying a lot of debt, and then I put up a list of words that they were probably saying to themselves, as they have this person sitting in front of them. Why don't they understand a budget? Why can't they make better decisions? How did they get here? What's wrong with them? Right?
Speaker 3:And the person sitting across from the table from you who's in that debt situation, for sure they're going to feel that judgment. We're as human beings. We judge people. That's what we do, that's how we define ourselves, that's how we find the people who are like us and that's how we find the people who are not like us. And so, as a financial advisor, you have to be aware of what your own biases are and then, as somebody coming into that conversation as a client, you know, I ask people to be forgiving of themselves. I love that.
Speaker 2:I was just making a note because I think that's important is that financial advisors are not always aware of their own biases and how they project them onto their clients and their clients' actions. I think that's a super powerful point, so that's awesome. So you know. The next question is what is one simple thing you can do each year to set up a budget, one simple thing you can do each year to set yourself up for financial success?
Speaker 3:I would say review your net worth statement for sure, and the second thing I would say is review your goals and values around money. You do those two things.
Speaker 2:That's great, yeah, and I think people don't revisit their goals and their goals could change Exactly and then line them up with their values Is, you know, your values are what make you go, and if you're not in line with your values like let's get back to the Starbucks coffee If that's what you value, then there's nothing wrong with it. Well, you know?
Speaker 3:yes, and you know it's interesting because there is a lot of noise about how you should spend your money. Right, you should spend it on experiences rather than on things. Well, ok, well, that's a bias, that's a judgment that they're making. I don't say to my clients no, don't buy that Louis Vuitton bag. I say, let's make that your short term goal and save up for that Louis Vuitton bag. Because if a Louis Vuitton bag gives you a sense of confidence walking into a room and it feels like a sense of accomplishment, then that's a great thing.
Speaker 3:And let's face it, we do live in a. We do need people to buy things, you know, within reason, but we do need people to buy things. And then there are the people who, you know, want to judge you for how you're spending money. If an experience is more important to you, then that's where you should go. So it's. And you could have a partnership husband, wife, people living together and one of them likes, values, experiences, and one of them values things. And then how do you get on the same page? Right, you've got to have that conversation.
Speaker 2:That is a tough one, but I think giving back to the Louis Vuitton first is, you know, if it's bringing you joy, then I think you should go for it. But, as you point out, it should be one of your goals that it just needs to fit into the rest of your financial plan.
Speaker 3:That's the thing you don't need to buy a new portion every week maybe yes that's right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3:And I say it's a spend. I never call it a retirement plan, I call it a spend later plan. So spend now, spend later. So if you want, if you know how you want to live later and you know how much you need to spend later, then when you're making the decision but what am I spending now and what am I spending later? It's a slightly different conversation, right. It's like what am I willing to not spend now so that I can spend it later? Retirement feels like that's never going to happen. It's way in the future. But spend later, that could be tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and that gets us back to, as I mentioned, as I'm trying to use the term financial independence more than retirement, because I think that's what people are really looking for. There's no traditional retirement. I don't know anybody who celebrated their 65th birthday and then was completely done with working the next day. I don't know if I've ever encountered anybody, professionally or personally, who that's been the case for. You know they phase out work, they retire earlier. You know there's so many things that I love that spend now, spend later. So as long as you're not spending it all now, you're doing OK. You should have something to spend later. Delayed gratification is good. So, maura, what is one habit that people can change when it comes to their money?
Speaker 3:Get rid of TAP. Get rid of tap on your phone. Get rid of Apple Pay. Get rid of Google Pay. Take the Amazon app off your phone. I don't know when we bought into the idea that spending money has to be convenient. Put some friction in between you and the way you spend money and reduce the friction in the way that you're saving and investing. Increase the friction with which you spend. So take the convenience out a bit of it. There are some clients that I'll say let's just use cash for a couple of months. Let's use cash Because we've lost our connection to money. Right, that's true, humans have really only had money for about 3,000 years. Before that, it would have been bartering. You can take my cows and I'll take your wool whatever it is we're doing, but that was a thing for a thing.
Speaker 3:So we've had money about 3,000 years and then in the last probably 15, 20, we've started really losing that connection. We're not getting a paycheck that we're walking down to the bank with and putting it in our bank account and then, looking at the money we've got in our account, we're not taking cash out and then making sure it's lasting for the week. The money goes in not acknowledged and the money comes out not acknowledged. So our relationship with the physicality of money is almost gone.
Speaker 2:That is really deep. He gave me some. He really made me think about that is because some people there's different ways in how people learn and that may be why some people have maybe struggled with money now when they didn't struggle with it before Is because for some people maybe that tactile sense helped them.
Speaker 3:That's definitely one of it. And the world's changed. So you go online and you're. I was going on a holiday. I needed a very small. I was only taking carry-on for a two week trip, okay. So I was like what's the most I can get? So I went online and I was looking for bags and then my whole Instagram feed every time I opened up my laptop. Obviously I didn't go on a VPN. So then you're directed targeted ads. There's billions of dollars being spent to understand how we spend and how we are influenced into spending Right, and that's a lot of pressure. Add everything up the ease with which we spend money, all the pressure from how we're being targeted to spend our money, and even the volume of decisions that we have to make every day. We've only got so many decisions that we can make in a day, and then we get decision exhaustion right. So put all of that together and you can see North Americans are the most indebted they've ever been, right. Canadians and Americans the most indebted they've ever been.
Speaker 1:Are they doing that?
Speaker 3:on purpose? They're not. They're not. But we have a system that has allowed certain things to happen, and then people develop habits and then they're out of touch with what they're doing with their money and they don't have any goals for their money.
Speaker 1:Really, they're just trying to make it through.
Speaker 3:You know Like, oh my God, I've got to get my kids to school, I've got to take them to hockey, I've got to take the other ones to dance. I've got to, you know, put groceries on the table. How am I eating what? You know, it's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a lot. Well, yeah, no, I agree 100%. Some of these things are relatively new in the last 100, 200 years that you know this whole concept of having money for retirement, you know, and all these other things where you know before it was you get money when you come home, you know you had your family would take care of you when you got older, and different cultures. You know all these different things that you know. This is all still new and, as you point out, there's a lot of psychological pressure and manipulation for people to take certain actions and a lot of people just aren't set up to deal with that and they don't have, as you pointed out earlier, they don't have the resources and the education to be able to make those decisions, and I don't mean formal education, I mean education around their money. As you point out, you know, is this is all really you know insightful and appreciate the insights? So you know, maura, let's get out the time machine for a minute.
Speaker 3:What advice?
Speaker 2:What advice would you give your younger self if you could go back in time, knowing what you know now about money?
Speaker 3:I would learn as much as I could about how money works. I would surround myself with a group of professionals who would respect me and give me good advice. I would make a financial plan and understand my values around money Absolutely 100%.
Speaker 2:I think you said something there that is incredibly deep and I want to make sure that I emphasize it for the audience Professionals who respect me. Professionals who respect me.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say one more time, find professionals who respect you If you are dealing with you know and this goes beyond even financial service professionals with people who don't respect you, it's not going to be a good relationship. The relationship is not going to end well. Find people who respect you in all areas of your life. I have a couple more questions for you because I'd love to drop the mic on that, because I was a drop the mic moment more. Thank you, so I love that. So you know, to round it off, I was asked people what their number one tip is. So what is your number one tip on changing the way we think about money?
Speaker 3:Okay. Well, I would say my number one tip. Well, I would say the process is similar to what I described before you take actions that support your habits, you build new habits and then you're moving forward, right? So one of the things that I think is a bit I'm not sure what the word I want to use.
Speaker 3:Maybe there's a lot to unpack when it comes to money, and there's often people will talk about abundance mindset or scarcity mindset, and I really believe that, for people who have been living with financial pressure and therefore may have a scarcity mindset, I think trying to meditate yourself to abundance and wish yourself to abundance can feel like it's too far a step to take. And then you know, you've tried it for 30 days, saying your mantras are doing whatever, but you actually haven't done any of the things that you need to do to build your awareness around your money. And then you feel, okay, this isn't working. And then you're right back to where you started. So it's really important to look at both sides. Yes, you have to be aware of that mindset, because if you're earning a lot of money and you don't have the self worth to think that you deserve it, you'll get rid of that money anyway again.
Speaker 3:You might not even know what's happening. So I always say forgive yourself for any past mistakes and then start taking the actions and it's a process. You can develop a different relationship with money and allow yourself to allow it to develop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I'm just taking notes as we go. You know that's all super powerful and I think people don't realize that is. You know it's almost like imposter syndrome, or maybe it is. Imposter syndrome is I don't deserve to be making this money. So you know I'm going to spend it or I'm going to do something with it or not make the choices it should be made, and people don't ask for what they're worth. I think that's the other thing is to find their value. You know, bring in the gender pay gap. People who listen to me here may say talk about the gender pay gap almost every episode. You know, for women to ask what you're worth, you know if you're not being paid the same as your coworkers, whether you're a woman, person, a color, whatever. I think that's a big part of this as well is to know your worth right.
Speaker 3:It absolutely isn't. It's a huge part of it to know your worth and one of the things that can happen is we can collapse our self-worth with our net worth. Now your self-worth can impact your net worth because for those reasons, maybe you're not asking for your true value, but that's also a process. If you're a woman, as I am, and I've definitely been at the mercy of the gender pay gap, and then I started moving into roles where you know it was more performance-based and I got paid accordingly right Now that's not for everybody, but you can't. You've got to understand what your connection to your self-worth is, understand what the role is, understand what that role can support in terms of income and build up the confidence you need to be able to ask for that money right. Just because you know there's a gender pay gap doesn't mean you're ready tomorrow to go into your boss's office and say, yeah, I want to raise, because you may not actually feel as if you deserve that raise.
Speaker 2:There you go. You have to feel like you deserve it and, as you've talked about, it's building up that confidence, which I believe not as 100% from education, but you know, and as you've also pointed out is understanding our mindset around that. Why do you feel like you're not worth it? What will help you have the confidence to go in there and ask for the raise, to ask for what you're worth and to feel like you're worth it I think we all struggle with that at certain times is, you know, like, do I deserve this? You know, did I really get here on my own?
Speaker 3:Yeah and here no, you didn't get there on your own. You probably had a whole bunch of people, acknowledged or unacknowledged, to help you get there.
Speaker 2:I guess that's true. Yeah, so I mean that's yeah. So I mean I think we're going in the same place, but yeah, but, but you, you know, I think people undervalue how much they contribute to their own success. I guess maybe that's a better way to phrase it.
Speaker 3:Yes, it can be, and the other thing that can happen is we discount all the years of experience that we have that have now made the job easier, whatever it is we're doing, and so we're like oh I, you know I, this is only going to take me an hour. Okay, well, it took you 10 years to learn how to do it in an hour Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I'm a huge fan of that. I mean, I'm simplifying it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm simplifying it a bit, oh, definitely I mean. Yeah, I mean, money is is fascinating. It's just, you know, you can really see what's going on in people's heads when they're trying to make a money decision. Right, you can, you can. And then if you give them the space to talk through it, then you can see okay, that's how they're getting there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. Well, it makes me think, you know, it's like I'm a basketball fan, you know, and with some of the players who are the greatest players, you know, is they were the first ones into the gym, they're the last ones in the gym, they're the ones who work all year round on their skills. And I think it's the same thing with money, as we can't walk into a financial conversation and not have put in any time thinking about the financial conversation. You know that you just can't do it and that gets to. You know what you've been talking about.
Speaker 2:The whole thing is, you know, back to when you talked about reviewing your net worth, reviewing your goals and values. If you're not thinking about your goals, how are you going to meet your goals? You know, if you don't have any goals, then you're not going to have any spend later money. Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but if it's not a goal, it's probably not going to happen. So you have to revisit all those things. So more this has been fantastic. Appreciate your time and your insights is where can people learn more about you? Where can they keep up with what you're up to?
Speaker 3:I would say LinkedIn is the best place. I do post a little bit on Instagram and I do house some of my video content on YouTube, but LinkedIn is definitely the best place to follow me. I post on there, you know, four times a week. I do say if people read every single one of my posts and then just put one thing into play from every one of those posts, they could change their relationship with money. And of course, they can always reach out to directly to me on LinkedIn. You could direct message me or you could go right into my profile and book a 30 minute call and have a conversation about money.
Speaker 2:Fantastic and for everybody, watching and listening is always out. Have links to more as LinkedIn profile as well as to her website, so you can definitely get in touch with her and follow her and see what she's up to. She's posting some great stuff on LinkedIn, which is how I found her, because I loved what you were posting. So thank you so much for that and thank you very much for joining us today on the Get Ready Money podcast.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and thank you everyone for watching and listening to this episode of the Get Ready Money podcast. Please be sure to subscribe and change the way you think about money.