On the latest episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I spoke with Catherine Shanahan and Karen Chellew, the founders of My Divorce Solution and the hosts of the We Chat Divorce Podcast about changing the way we think about money and divorce preparation.
In this episode we discussed:
Catherine Shanahan is the co-founder of My Divorce Solutions and co-host of the We Chat Divorce Podcast. After 25 years in the financial industry, having raised five children and endured her own experience with divorce, Catherine became a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA), trained Mediator and Daily Money Manager (PDMM). Catherine is collaboratively trained and was a member of the Bucks County Collaborative Law Group. She is a member of the American Association of Daily Money Managers (AADMM) the Institute for Divorce Financial Analysts, and the Association of Divorce Financial Planners (ADFP). Catherine is fully dedicated to helping clients understand and navigate all aspects of divorce including planning a secure financial future post-divorce.
Karen Chellew is the co-founder of My Divorce Solutions and co-host of the We Chat Divorce Podcast.For over 30 years, Karen has worked in the legal field as a paralegal and business manager. During her career, she served as an affiliated member of the Pennsylvania Bar Association and President-Elect of the ALA (Association of Legal Administrators). Karen now serves clients and the professional team in her role as legal liaison. She is an affiliate member of the American Bar Association (ABA) Dispute Resolution Committee, a certified QDRO Administrator, Founder and President of Sisters U Foundation, and an Auditor of East Rockhill Township. As the mom of three children and one granddaughter, Karen is extremely passionate about helping women in all that she does.
Connect with Catherine Shanahan and Karen Chellew:
Website: www.mydivorcesolution.com
LinkedIn: Catherine Shanahan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-shanahan-1155a535/
LinkedIn: Karen Chellew: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-chellew/
Podcast:
We Chat Divorce Podcast: https://mydivorcesolution.com/we-chat-divorce-podcast/ and https://youtu.be/ournp7sTA-4?si=bs_4XyR7MSDADpGt
On the latest episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I spoke with Catherine Shanahan and Karen Chellew, the founders of My Divorce Solution and the hosts of the We Chat Divorce Podcast about changing the way we think about money and divorce preparation.
In this episode we discussed:
Catherine Shanahan is the co-founder of My Divorce Solutions and co-host of the We Chat Divorce Podcast. After 25 years in the financial industry, having raised five children and endured her own experience with divorce, Catherine became a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA), trained Mediator and Daily Money Manager (PDMM). Catherine is collaboratively trained and was a member of the Bucks County Collaborative Law Group. She is a member of the American Association of Daily Money Managers (AADMM) the Institute for Divorce Financial Analysts, and the Association of Divorce Financial Planners (ADFP). Catherine is fully dedicated to helping clients understand and navigate all aspects of divorce including planning a secure financial future post-divorce.
Karen Chellew is the co-founder of My Divorce Solutions and co-host of the We Chat Divorce Podcast.For over 30 years, Karen has worked in the legal field as a paralegal and business manager. During her career, she served as an affiliated member of the Pennsylvania Bar Association and President-Elect of the ALA (Association of Legal Administrators). Karen now serves clients and the professional team in her role as legal liaison. She is an affiliate member of the American Bar Association (ABA) Dispute Resolution Committee, a certified QDRO Administrator, Founder and President of Sisters U Foundation, and an Auditor of East Rockhill Township. As the mom of three children and one granddaughter, Karen is extremely passionate about helping women in all that she does.
Connect with Catherine Shanahan and Karen Chellew:
Website: www.mydivorcesolution.com
LinkedIn: Catherine Shanahan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-shanahan-1155a535/
LinkedIn: Karen Chellew: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-chellew/
Podcast:
We Chat Divorce Podcast: https://mydivorcesolution.com/we-chat-divorce-podcast/ and https://youtu.be/ournp7sTA-4?si=bs_4XyR7MSDADpGt
Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and transform your financial future? Then you've come to the right place. This is the Get Ready Money Podcast with Tony Stewart, where Tony has insightful conversations with financial experts who are changing the way we think about money. Catch up on the latest financial trends and hear practical advice from Tony and his expert guests so you can build healthy habits that work, Be empowered with tips for implementing small changes that can have a big impact on your financial future. So sit back and get ready to hear from today's guest.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast changing the way we think about money. I'm pleased to be joined today by Katherine Shanahan and Karen Chalhou, the founders of my Divorce Solution and the hosts of the we Chat Divorce podcast. In this episode, we'll be discussing how we change the way we think about money and divorce preparation. Catherine and Karen, welcome to the Get Ready Money Podcast. Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having us Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, excited for this conversation. So, as we get started, please tell us a little bit about yourself. What are your origin stories?
Speaker 3:Oh boy. So I was a financial planner since 1988. I raised a blended family, two biological children, three stepchildren and after 23 years I decided that it was time to get a divorce and going through my process, we were both financial people, so it wasn't really the financial piece that was scary, it was the legal part. My agreement really wasn't that solid which led me into the language, wasn't that solid which led me into the courtroom just a few years ago. So when I started thinking that people needed help financially, I realized it was more than just the financial. There was this archaic system that was not nice to families, if you ask me. So I knew Karen from a colleague and I approached her and I said I need you, we need to change the way the industry is run. And are you on board?
Speaker 4:Yeah, run, and are you on board? Yeah, so my background is completely litigation centric was my first job out of college and remained there. So when I went through my divorce 10 years after being married my children were seven and five at the time I had the best attorneys available to me, but I did not have the financial clarity to look forward for me and to help me prepare and know and make really good financial decisions for myself. I was very focused on custody and getting out of the marriage, and so I made decisions without understanding the financial impact, which then landed me in court, essentially being fully responsible for my husband's bankruptcy in his business, because I was named as the president and so during the day I laugh now, but, honest to God, it happened.
Speaker 4:They came after me so that I wasn't protected and while I was trying to do the right thing, it's impossible to do the right thing if you don't know the information and if you don't take those intention. Steps in the space of due diligence is just that important, and so when Catherine approached me about joining forces for my divorce solution, it was time for me to exit the law firm that I had been in for 30 years and was very excited to move forward in a different venture helping people understand those dynamics of the experience of litigation and how you navigate through that and how you look at those professionals, maybe in a different way.
Speaker 2:I think that's really interesting. I think you know that what I think is most important about this and what you guys have created is the integration of the different components, and I think that's what's often missed is people think about money in a silo, they think about the legal component in a silo and, of course, with a divorce, the biggest thing is the emotions and, of course, the kids and what's going to happen to the kids. And sometimes I mean, would you agree that other things even sort of fall to the side because that heavy focus?
Speaker 3:I feel like it's like the um, pinball, pin pinball games. You know, when you're coming down the chute and you're bounced to here and you're bounced to here, and you're bounced to here and you're bounced to here and then you forget where you were bouncing from. So you have to try to go back and it's unfortunate that. I mean I think you put it nicely in these silos, you know, but one decision affects the overall agreement and that's why you have to be prepared and you have to have financial clarity and you have to have knowledge, because if you're informed, then your professionals are going to work in your best interest, and it's unfortunate that people don't realize that that's the importance of being financially prepared.
Speaker 2:And I think you hit on something that's also really important is understanding how to work with your professionals. I think people often overlook that. One, that the professionals work for them. But two if you don't know even the right questions to ask, you're not going to get the best results from your professionals. So is that part of the service I mean that you guys have my divorce solution that you help people ask the right questions? Do you give them the right questions? How do you do that?
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely On all of those levels a lot of people a lot.
Speaker 4:I'll never remember early on, when we started our business, we had referred a client to a local attorney. We typically give them choices and help them know. You know that in the family law world the areas of practice are fairly broad. You know they have to know contract law, real estate law, estate planning law, family law, sometimes domestic violence laws, like it goes on and on, because family law can bring in so many different nuances. So you know, we try to help them understand that they need an attorney very specific to their most critical issues and not necessarily one that their friend or family referred to up street.
Speaker 4:So in any event, I remember this client saying, oh, so glad I have this attorney because they're just going to take care of everything. And I said, well, actually you need to be very involved at this point. And she and after her case was finished she just thanked me for letting her know that because she said, you know, as a client you think, well, they're just going to take care of everything. But it's really when you've taken the steps to prepare and then you engage counsel and then you are an informed client working with them because you know they're going to ask you whether it's an attorney or a mediator, they're going to ask you what do you want? And, based on what you say, is what they're going to go after Next week when you change your mind. They're going to pivot with you and if you haven't taken the steps to really know what you want and why you want it, and the financial impact, you will be on the hamster wheel of litigation that so many people experience and I think you know what you said is so important.
Speaker 2:You know not. You know not just for divorce but overall in personal finances that people have to. You have to know what you want and what your goals are and to be clear, because you can't get your goals satisfied if you don't even know what they are. And I think you know what do you recommend to people, Because you know the emotions are so charged in a divorce situation. How do you get people to focus and center themselves?
Speaker 3:How do you get them to focus on what?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, tony, I didn't hear that oh on their goals and what they want, because you know their minds are going through 100,000 different things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know we have a 10 step process and in that 10 steps their clarity changes what they want, right? So in the beginning they come in and they're starting with. Just the launch call sets them up for a different perspective. And that is some ask. Sometimes it is asking some questions to your attorney just certain dates, any anything required, anything pending, but then walking into that income and expense conversation with your lifestyle analysis, when they realize what's coming in and what's going out is not what they thought it was, that starts changing their goals on what they want, moving forward. And then our next step with the documentation.
Speaker 3:A spreadsheet is a spreadsheet, but we don't work off of spreadsheets, we work off of the data. And so when they see the actual data of what has either happened in the past or where they are today, or what they think is going to happen in the first, in the future, again their goals are changing. But they're not paying someone hourly to change their mind about what they want. They're going through our 10 steps first to become prepared and what. Our last step is to talk through the division scenarios with them. So those division scenarios are based on their goals, their needs and what's available to them. So we're not telling them what they should get or what they're going to get. We're talking through different scenarios that may be available to them.
Speaker 3:So now, if they have one, two or three scenarios, their goal is ready to accept any one of those, whether it's better than it where they started or worse. They're now emotionally prepared for that acceptance, to move forward, because everybody has to compromise. So now, when they take that to their attorney, it is here's my A scenario, here's my B, here's my C. What can you do for me? I really want my A, but I'll be okay with my C. What can you do now legally, and are you the right attorney for me?
Speaker 2:That's so true.
Speaker 4:And Tony. I just want to add to that relative to the emotions, because we have a lot of conversations. As we all know, divorce is very traumatic conversation. As we all know, divorce is very traumatic, Catherine, I think you say it's second in grief to the death of a spouse.
Speaker 4:So we acknowledge that. But what we are able to help our clients and help empower them with is that when you're able to get this financial clarity and you can understand that as soon as possible during a pending or approaching, or sometimes it's right in the middle of a divorce, but once you can get that, then you have more space to deal with the emotional issues with your therapist or your coach, you're able to have better conversations because the financial piece of it is not going to change. It is what it is. So you know, that's how we help them kind of navigate those emotions is by helping them focus on the knowns of their financial marital estate.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Well, you know, that just is, I think, incredible. You know, catherine, I want to walk back to one thing you said, because I think people sometimes miss this compromise is you're not always going to get everything you want, and I think people, especially if you're feeling emotional, it's harder to compromise and to understand that to compromise and to understand that.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about that. Tony, you know what my spouse cheats on me. Why do I need to compromise? Right, my spouse never worked. Why do I need to compromise?
Speaker 3:You know everything is coming from their anger towards why this marriage is breaking up and unfortunately, that's not the data that anyone is going to look at to help you come to your agreement. But having our space to be judgment free and, as Karen said, work through those emotions and get that clarity allows that is the only way to open anyone's mind, in my opinion, to compromise. You can't sit in an attorney's office and tell them all about your horrible spouse while your spouse is in his attorney's office and they're just listening to you. There's nothing legally they're going to do with that data, that not data, that emotion. So what they do is they just listen to you and say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll go do that.
Speaker 3:And so you're not thinking you need to compromise because they don't, you know they're just saying, okay, that's what you want. You're not thinking you need to compromise because they don't, you know. They're just saying, okay, that's what you want, right. And then the two attorneys talk to each other and they don't even really say what you're saying. They interpret it in their viewpoint based on probably a hundred other people Right. So it's unfortunate you never giving that opportunity to become clear on where you might have to compromise, and that's probably one of the best things about our process. Again, if you ask me and you said it earlier we bridge the gap between the financial assessment and the legal requirements, and that bridging of that gap is a symmetry of information and also a balancing of people's mindset so that they can compromise.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I'm just taking notes. I love that and I think that's important for people to think about, and I think that's what I love about the work that you're doing is that you have to balance all these things and figure it out, but you're under incredible stress while you're trying to do it, so that's incredible. So you know one of the things you mentioned and this may be part of the process that you mentioned but what is the MDS financial portrait?
Speaker 4:So the MDS financial portrait is the deliverable, as we say, of a client's work with us, whether they do it individually or together with their spouse. So it's a document that houses their statement of marital estate. It houses their division scenarios. It houses any information regarding property or assets or debts that were advanced or divided during the pendency of the divorce or the pendency of the separation period. It typically has spouse support calculations from a financial perspective and it also has one of our most value reports that our clients help us understand is called a table of recommendations and considerations. So for every asset and debt that is a part of your marital estate, it talks about the nuances or the factors of negotiation.
Speaker 4:So let's just say you're dividing a home, Okay. So you say we're going to refinance or we're gonna sell the home and split the proceeds 50-50. Sounds fairly simple, right? Well, there's probably eight or nine additional conversations. You need to have to get a good financial agreement. That's the same for retirement accounts, executive compensation, all kinds of things that we just want our clients to know and understand so that when that marital settlement agreement gets written, they can pair it up to make sure all of those issues are covered in a way that their agreement is protected and enforced, and that is the job of the attorney, and so you know they have the ability then to make sure all the bases are covered.
Speaker 2:Well, would you call it a roadmap, then, for someone essentially you know for them to follow?
Speaker 4:That's great. Yeah, it's definitely a roadmap, a blueprint, and then it's delivered with an inventory of all the supporting and key documents that were provided for assessment. And that really becomes an important piece with their attorney or mediator because they can count on what documentation was provided for the assessment. Then that was delivered.
Speaker 3:And what wasn't provided.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is that?
Speaker 2:even something you deal with is you know the stuff that people try to hide.
Speaker 3:You know it's interesting. You know we have over 90 percent participation rate of spouses. So you can come to MDS and come in as an individual client or you can come on with your spouse, but even as an individual client, we will invite the spouse to participate if our client wants them to participate, which to me is a beautiful thing. Because I say this all the time and Karen probably is tired of hearing it I don't understand. I logically cannot understand why we need two attorneys to collect the same data as a financial person. It is one statement to the same account. We don't need to pay each attorney 50 grand to collect this data, and I also can go on the line and say we could have made a fortune if we just charged the attorneys every time they asked us for the same piece of document that we've already sent them. Karen finds it in like less than 10 seconds because we have it all digitalized right. So for us, our clients come in and they participate.
Speaker 3:But sometimes the spouse will come in and say, oh, this is my separate property, I did this so long ago and we say, oh, great, congratulations, what have you? I just need this documentation to support that we're not telling them that they're liars or that it's not correct or anything else. We want to support that spouse and say, okay, great, we're happy to put it on there, but we need this document. The document never appears in some cases. So in our, in our client's portrait it'll say husband asserts as a separate property requested this X, y and Z documents not received. And now that's a legal issue. Now that attorney can go in and get that documentation or the mediator now knows what we did not get. So we do that with all the assets and the debts because we give them a very extensive checklist.
Speaker 2:That's awesome and I love that there is the ability for both spouses to participate if they want to, because a lot of people are mature about it and will actually have a conversation about it and want to achieve a fair outcome, a relatively fair outcome, right yeah, and I also think this is a family.
Speaker 3:I mean, they got married for a reason. Of course they're getting divorced for a reason, but let's give the families out there a lot more credit than they're given. They might be one of the sides, might be a jerk, or maybe both sides are a jerk in that situation. Right, they just aren't supposed to be together anymore. But I, like I said, our, our participation rate is so high because people are smart enough to know there is a better way to do this, and their children are more important than an archaic process. So Karen and I are so proud of our couples that are litigious in thinking but come here amicably to share the information and then go to their mediator and then go to their attorney to work off of that data.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I'm going to add to that a little bit, because a lot of participating spouses come to the table fairly litigious that's actually a good word but by the end they realize that this is a financial transaction. This is how the courts look at it. This is what you have to divide, these are your scenarios. And so it neutralizes that adversity because it takes, it extracts out the emotion of the behavior of that other spouse where the you know, where they may be seeking revenge or they're just bitter about it, or whatever the it may be.
Speaker 4:You know we're able to just stay in our space of financial clarity and it really goes a long way. It's all done in an online secure portal so you know they have access the same accessibility of their co-clients with us or the participating spouse can have access to what they provided and what the other spouse has provided. So there's all kinds of ways to share the information where they feel more secure than about the process and they don't feel like they're being taken advantage of. And you'll see, on some of our Google reviews the spouse is saying that I was not a client but my spouse was, and this was my experience. So you know it can happen. And to Catherine's point, we should be shifting the power to the families and giving them more credibility than what has been afforded to them to date.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's important to shift the power to the families, and you know that's at the heart of the work that I'm trying to do is to empower people for themselves rather than, you know, being, I guess, floating along at the mercy of the financial services system and it sounds like that's very much in line with what you're doing and empowering people to not be, to not float along at the mercy of the current divorce system, Absolutely. So let's switch into the get ready questions. The first one is what is one simple thing that people can do each year to set themselves up for financial success? You know, even your lens is, you know, as you know, know, as divorce might be a possibility, or, you know, is there going through divorce, coming out of it, yeah, what would you recommend?
Speaker 3:my answer would be to get a copy of the tax return that you are signing. Insist on signing it yourself. Even if it's a, you could stand there right with your spouse and DocuSign and have copies of the supporting documentation. Don't just sign a return. Get a copy of all the forms that go with that tax return.
Speaker 4:Mine would be if you don't have a singular way of spending money in your relationship, whether you're thinking about divorce or not, you need to find that for yourself, whether it's your own bank account or whether it's your own credit card, whatever the it may be, so that not only do you have that autonomy in the relationship, but you're also taking some level of responsibility, accountability and an understanding of how you spend money and why you want to spend money, because that becomes a very important part of the divorce process, but it's also important in any relationship, right? If you're in a relationship with someone else, it should be more balanced than what we see in a lot of divorcing couples.
Speaker 2:These days and, as you mentioned, I think it's also important because you know you may be as a friend of mine puts it suddenly solo is. It is very similar to widowhood, where all of a sudden you know you're dealing with everything that your spouse may have dealt with. So I think that's wonderful. So what basic money concept do you wish people knew? You know, as you've gone through? I don't know how many divorces people knew you know, as you've gone through I don't know how many divorces.
Speaker 4:So for me, I love budgeting. I always have forever. I love knowing how every penny of my money is being spent, and so I feel empowered by that and I love to share that knowledge with other people that you know. Becoming the CFO, I guess, of your life is amazing. Even if your spouse is the financial manager of the family, you can still develop that skill set for yourself, and it is quite empowering because then you get to decide what is important to you from a financial lens versus oh, I like to travel, or I like to buy shoes, or I like to invest money, or I like to buy real estate. Well, what would those decisions mean if you were tracking the dollars Like, how much would you put in there? So that's what I wish for everyone is really to embrace income and expenses.
Speaker 3:And I'm going to take it on the flip side of the coin, which is assets and debts. Right? So for me, it's never too late to change your relationship with money and it is never too late to start asking questions about your money. So just remember that because you're asking questions, you're not questioning anyone. You're asking questions and no question is a dumb question. So you should be familiar with what assets you have and what debt you have. And being familiar doesn't mean understanding what the market is doing today or what everyone's telling you you should be doing in the market. It's understanding that. How do you access your statements? How are you accountable for your debts, which is what Karen was talking about? But how do you access everything? What are the passwords and can you set up your own access? You don't need to go in on your spouses. If you're on that account, you can set up your own access and that's how you change your relationship with money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's powerful advice. And again getting back to what we were talking about with the widows, but also if the spouse becomes incapacitated, you know, even temporarily, is that you need to know all this stuff. I encourage people to have a family financial meeting. You know. That doesn't mean, as you point out, that one spouse doesn't maybe manage the financial life, but they report to the other spouse and I completely agree with you. I think each spouse has a duty to at least have a working knowledge of how the financial picture works, even if they're not handling the actual transactions themselves. So that's powerful advice and it does help prepare them if they do have a divorce, because I mean, what is the current percentage of people that get divorced now?
Speaker 3:The first time it's a little over 50%, maybe 52% somewhere around there. The second time it's at 60 something percent, and then the third time it's a little over 50%, maybe 52% somewhere around there. The second time it's at 60 something percent, and then the third time it's in the 70%. Your third time married? Wow, it's pretty high yeah.
Speaker 2:I have a brother who's been divorced, I think, at least three times.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so yeah, once you get to the third time, it's likely you'll probably get a fourth. Yeah. We could talk about that that's a whole nother podcast, because how do you talk about money the next time you're married, right?
Speaker 2:or the third time, or fourth time, anyway, actually, no, you know what, he has been divorced three times. So you're right. So yeah, anyway, that's my brother.
Speaker 3:You might want to give him our card.
Speaker 4:Should we put you on retainer, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:You know, in that space we do have people who are have been divorced and they're getting married a second time, or young couples starting out because I think younger people do approach marriage in a bit of a different way than our generation but coming to us for financial agreements in the form of prenups, not because they're planning to get divorced, but because they want to have really good financial discussions about how they'll manage money during their marriage. And it's a really great tool to start having good conversations and understanding how each of you spend money but also how you, you know, want to plan the financial goals in your family. So you know, we do get a lot of flack for, oh, you help people with prenups and that's just planning for divorce and we say it's actually planning to stay married.
Speaker 3:And Karen, I'm glad you brought that up because so many people if you polled the kids today are afraid to ask their partner what they have like, what, what do you have Like? And so if they doing the financial portrait for prenups is us asking, we're taking you out of that uncomfortable position of asking. We're asking and we're just asking so we can disclose everything and you two can go then to an attorney and draw up a great prenup just based on expectations, not based on anything negative. So I love again that we provide that space for people who don't have comfortable um dialogue about money to to have it. You know, I was raised by an accountant. We had no other choice but to know about money and be independent right, but not everybody was like that. So I love that we can do that for couples, especially the young couples, so that they can start developing a better relationship financially speaking.
Speaker 2:I love that and I think you know you hit on something that happens in the financial world is people get hung up on specific words and you know the whole thing with prenuptial is you think you know it's a bad thing, but, as you point out, there's also a positive side to it and a beneficial side and I think that people need to remember that with money is that you know there's a flip side, and then maybe it's changing how you define the term. So I love that you're getting out there and also addressing that preemptively so people can be prepared Because, like you point out out, 50, 60, 70 percent that's high, that's a good likelihood of probability. So what do you feel is that? What is one habit that people can change when it comes to their money?
Speaker 3:open your statements, whether they're online or they're in the mail. Open it and look at it. If it's dropped dramatically, there's a problem, somebody withdrew money or you're in the wrong market for your risk tolerance. Don't just put your envelope aside and say I'll look at it another day and all you have to do is look at it and look at the value. Is it that'll be your first step to being comfortable?
Speaker 2:look at it and look at the value is that that'll be your first step to being comfortable yeah, mine would be um just being very intentioned and aware about um your spending habits, without judgment.
Speaker 4:like I, I want to spend x amount of dollars on travel or whatever it may be, on education, on anything, and then decide if that fits in your budget, if you feel good about it or not. I think a lot of people spend money impulsively and then just wait to see if the ax is going to fall. But you know when you're making those spending decisions from a place of knowing it's very empowering. So you know every day, even going to the grocery store, I know what I spent at the grocery and I know what this translates into a monthly figure. I know it and I'm good with it and I feel comfortable about it. That's a good feeling to have and I think those are good daily habits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that empowers people. And you know, looking back, you know, when I was doing consulting is, you know, so often, like Catherine you point out, is like people don't look at their statements, they have no idea what they have and they're not thinking about it, and then they're surprised like, hey, you know I have this or this is doing unexpected things Because, you know, know, like you point out, karen, is they're not being intentional about what they buy. They just, you know, in my case, sometimes I worked with, uh, financial planners, as you know, clients would have 10 life insurance policies who needs 10 life insurance policies? And they have no idea and they're like, you know, I'm not even sure what premiums I'm paying or cash value, and and it's just like, well, why do you have it? It's like, well, you know, my best friend or a guy I golf with, or you know, be intentional with what you're paying. You know, when you write that check or something, it's like, okay, do I need this?
Speaker 4:It's a great way to save money too, is cutting out things, yeah, and even if you don't need it, just feel good about what it means to your budget. And if it's something you want to spend, spend it with knowledge, not the lack of knowledge, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ooh, I love that Spend with knowledge, cause I think that's so important and, and, as you point out, is something that brings you joy is, you know, I hate give up your daily coffee. You know it's like, well, like your daily coffee, I love cappuccinos. I don't want to give them up, you know. So, you know, and maybe if I'm a little bit less financially successful, but I've enjoyed my cappuccino, I'm gonna be happy, right, um, yeah, so, um, what money myth are you trying to break? You know? Do you? Do you see a money myth, especially with divorcees, that they're thinking about?
Speaker 3:I'm sorry. What money? What was the question?
Speaker 2:Money myth.
Speaker 4:You mean something that people a fallacy that people believe about money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:That it's the root of all evil nice, that gets right to it well, money doesn't make you happy, but it can make life easier.
Speaker 3:Right, but? But my myth is we have so many people who call and they want to explain why retirement money, why they don't have money in retirement, and that their spouse has money in retirement and it's because they either gave up their job or they stayed at home to take care of the kids. It's most likely that that retirement money, although not in your name, is a marital asset, so you still do get that asset in the division. Somehow there's some kind of reconciliation of it and you don't need to ask for forgiveness that you don't have a retirement account in your name if it's all in your spouse's name.
Speaker 2:I love that I'm just making notes as you go, because I think that's an important thing is understanding your rights, and I see that as a big part of your work, as I understand it is that you help people understand what the rights are, and I think that's super important, you know, and that empowers people, and I think that's the most important work that we can do. So, you know, here's not quite the last question. Second to last question is, you know, getting out the time machine for a minute, what advice would you give your younger self if you could go back in time knowing what you know now?
Speaker 3:Boy Catherine and I would have a long conversation. You know, I would like my younger self do you mean my younger self during my divorce. That is that what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:You know, whenever, whatever time you want to keep doing the best you can.
Speaker 3:Every day you're doing it, and don't ever be afraid to do it a little bit better the next day.
Speaker 4:Good one. If I could challenge my younger self, I would say to be less worried about the future and more into the day-to-day. So you heard me say I love budgets, so I was a little controlling with my budget, and so you know myself, today is more about the budget empowering me rather than restricting me. And so if I could talk to my younger self, I would say you know, enjoy life and enjoy the, the, all the opportunities life brings you, and then, from there, make financial decisions.
Speaker 2:I love that and you know I've had odd guests who are, you know, into the fire movement. I'm not sure if you're both familiar with the fire movement financial independence, retire early, but a lot of it is about sacrificing today for an early retirement. But you know you don't get to enjoy life. So I think that's incredibly powerful advice and you know, as I think the three of us have been doing this for 10 plus years, we'll leave it at 10 plus years, right?
Speaker 3:So we can look back at it.
Speaker 2:Don't of us, so you know. So here's the final question is what is your number one tip on changing the way we think about money?
Speaker 3:Knowledge is everything. So, with confidence, you're going to change your relationship with money, with believing in yourself and by doing right every day. I mean, I just think that having a good relationship with money whether you have money or you don't have money, understanding all of that, your confidence comes from that. Walking into a room you'll feel differently, going to buy that starbucks. You're going to know you can't afford to buy that starbucks, so why embarrass yourself? You're not going to go in there, so you're going to feel better about yourself. If you want to do something that your friends are doing but you can't afford it, don't pretend to do that. Be who you are. Take what you have, understand what you have and then build upon that.
Speaker 4:That is powerful. That is powerful, and I don't even think I can add to that one. Catherine, that's a good one.
Speaker 3:That's because I hit a little bit of the budget in there. That's why you have nothing to say.
Speaker 4:You did, you took it, you stole my thunder?
Speaker 2:Not really no, but I completely embrace everything you said, and I honestly don't think I could add anything to that that would expand that thought. I think that truly is how we both feel and what we want for people who come to us. That is awesome and I guess, as they say, that's where the mic drops right, Catherine, you dropped the mic. So you know we didn't even get a chance to chat about your podcast, you know. So where can people learn more about you? The we Chat Divorce podcast, my Divorce Solution.
Speaker 4:All the work, all the great work that you're up to divorce podcast, my divorce solution, all the work, all the great work that you're up to. So we recommend you start at our website, wwwmydivorcesolutioncom. Everything we do is there, but you can also find us on YouTube, instagram, facebook, and our podcast is anywhere you listen to your podcast, it's on all the various channels, so we're probably wherever you would look for us, we're there. We have a fairly large presence because we really want to spread the word that you know divorce can be different and we're leading that charge.
Speaker 2:Ooh, I like that. Sorry, I have to take a note. So people who watch and listen know that sometimes I pause and take notes. That is incredibly powerful and, of course, for everybody who's watching and listening, as always, I'll have links to all these things that Karen mentioned so that you'll be able to find, you know, all the great resources that Catherine and Karen are putting out there. So, catherine and Karen, thank you so much for joining us today on the Get Ready Month podcast.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's always a pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I am the same, I love the work you're doing and how you're changing the way people think about divorce, because I think this is so important. So it's awesome work that you're doing. I'm glad to be able to have conversations with you about it and for everyone tuning in. Thank you, as always, for tuning into this episode of the Get Ready Money podcast. If you learned something today to change the way you think about money, please be sure to subscribe and tell a friend. Let's change the way we think about money. Until next time, thank you.