Quote: Buy enough (life insurance) the first time and don’t let it lapse.
In this episode of GET READY!, I spoke with Bob Bland, the founder of Lifequotes about the future of life insurance. Bob shared why it’s important to consider underwriting first when reviewing life insurance quotes. We also discussed how no-exam life insurance policies have improved underwriting processes, though consumers may pay extra for this convenience. And we covered the importance of working with a firm such as Lifequotes which represents multiple life insurance companies.
Bio: Robert Bland is the founder and CEO of Lifequotes.com. Lifequotes specializes in the sale of term life insurance through their platform that allows consumers to instantly compare the rates of 30 leading life insurance companies. By allowing people to obtain their own quotes and purchase from the company of their choice, Bob and his team have dramatically improved and streamlined the way people buy life insurance.
Lifequotes: (learn more here)*
*Please note that this is an affiliate link and I may make a small commission at no extra cost to you should you make a purchase.
Quote: Buy enough (life insurance) the first time and don’t let it lapse.
In this episode of GET READY!, I spoke with Bob Bland, the founder of Lifequotes about the future of life insurance. Bob shared why it’s important to consider underwriting first when reviewing life insurance quotes. We also discussed how no-exam life insurance policies have improved underwriting processes, though consumers may pay extra for this convenience. And we covered the importance of working with a firm such as Lifequotes which represents multiple life insurance companies.
Bio: Robert Bland is the founder and CEO of Lifequotes.com. Lifequotes specializes in the sale of term life insurance through their platform that allows consumers to instantly compare the rates of 30 leading life insurance companies. By allowing people to obtain their own quotes and purchase from the company of their choice, Bob and his team have dramatically improved and streamlined the way people buy life insurance.
Lifequotes: (learn more here)*
*Please note that this is an affiliate link and I may make a small commission at no extra cost to you should you make a purchase.
Welcome to the get ready with Tony Stewart podcast. I'm pleased to be joined today by Bob[inaudible]. Bob is the founder and CEO of light quotes.com. Life coach specializes in the sale term life insurance through their platform that allows consumers to instantly compare the rates of 30 leading life insurance companies by allowing people to obtain their own quotes and purchase from the company of their choice. Bob and his team have dramatically improved and streamlined the way people buy a life insurance. I'm personally pleased to be partnering with life coats to offer term life insurance to my audience, Bob. Good morning. Welcome to get ready and thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Good morning, Tony. Great to see you again,
Speaker 1:As always as always. So Bob, you know, I like to get into people in their origin story. Can you tell us a little bit how you got started in life insurance?
Speaker 2:Sure. Sure. Out of college, I worked for my dad's agency. He had a small insurance agency, a multiline property and casualty agency. And I had just come from the Chicago board options exchange where I was very used to getting instant information. And I was, um, alarmed working for my dad's agency that all the rating was manual and we used legal pads and books and$400 calculators. And after a while I just decided that it's just, I thought the insurance industry was right for automation. So I just got really frisky and ended up writing a business plan to automate the comparative rating process. I thought it would be good for our customers if we could give them instant quotes. Um, instead of having to say, well, I'll work this up and get back to you in a few days, which in the securities business would be laughable, right? Because you have that information instantly. So I got started in this business. Um, I left the family business and I took what little capital I had and a pocket full of dreams. And, and, um, started, uh, started, uh, a quote Smith, its name was quote Smith. It was a play on the word blacksmith and I hired some programmers. I knew what I wanted on the screen. And we started with a subscription service to agents, but that's how I got started. And then over time it sort of morphed into a comparative rating for life insurance. And then we ended up specializing in life insurance, um, for a number of reasons, but we were having success there. So we originally morphed from helping agents to dealing directly with consumers. Um, and that's how I got started.
Speaker 1:Oh, fantastic. Yeah. Well I know, um, we go way back and, and you're an innovator in the life insurance and in the insurance space overall. Um, so can you tell us a little bit about what is the life quotes philosophy?
Speaker 2:Sure. We're in 2020 terms, you can say we're an electronic big box store and now that's so far removed and far less radical than it used to be 20 years ago. But in essence, what we've done is we've invested a lot of capital in building a multi-company rating engine, a comparative rating engine that right now has about 30 leading life insurance companies rates in it. And the one of the unique features of our, of our rater is that we allow customers to come in to the website@lifequotes.com and they can do quotes anonymously. So we don't really even ask who you are. We don't ask your phone number. We don't ask your email. We w you can come in and view quotes in seconds. And I think our real crowning achievement that made us so popular with the press and consumers was that our comparative rating engines have the life insurance company's underwriting guidelines built in now for young people in perfect health. This is no big deal, and you really wouldn't notice it, but for middle-aged people, for example, where you wake up some morning and you have an acre of pain that wasn't there yesterday, and people on prescription drugs are recovering cancer. Patients, people with heart disease, sleep apnea, diabetes is a big one. Um, we pride ourselves on the fact that our rating engine, as long as you're honest on the front end question said, we will deliver to you in seconds, a very accurate rate. And so if you have medical conditions or things that you're taking prescription drugs for, it really helps to get an accurate rate in the beginning. So that that's the price you end up paying, or the price that the underwriter ends up approving because life insurance is notorious reputation for quoting lower premiums. And it's not always the agent's fault either. Um, it's just that life insurance is rating is very, can be very complex. There's about 80, 80 different, uh, factors that go into a life insurance rate. And so we try and have the customer be honest upfront, and then they're looking at an accurate rate. So we're a little bit different than, than other life insurance websites in that we have the 30 companies that is continually updated. We have a lot of product term life, whole life and universal life. And we allow quotes in seconds on an anonymous basis. And if you have conditions or a medical history, um, w you know, chances are we can help you.
Speaker 1:Well, that's great. So, you know, let me ask you, uh, this question, because I, I know from my own personal experience that as you said, is, you know, oftentimes agents will submit, you know, a blizzard of applications to a number of companies is how, how you, um, how does that mindset? Hmm. I mean, I'm struggling for the question this morning is, uh, how does that work for people in getting, uh, that information? What, what led to that different mindset, uh, and structuring, you know, and that's different than, um, a majority of other online companies as well. How did you come up with that strategy of thinking about the underwriting first?
Speaker 2:Well, it came from, we did, we used to do business the old way, which was, as you said, fill out several applications and send them to many companies and, and essence launch a foot race, or a beauty contest and a life insurance underwriting. It's a lot of work for an agent. You have to shepherd the paramedic exam through, you have to order medical records. You've got to make sure they're all complete. A life insurance application is itself a long document. It's not unusual to see them run 20 pages for example. And so it's a very laborious process. And, and to do that to several different companies and knowing that only one of you will win this particular bake-off, we, we felt that we could better serve the customer. If we built a, a better, more comprehensive front end Raider, and then we wouldn't do so much manual machination, but we would have a better understanding of each customer's situation. We wanted to render personal service, which we do. We have 40 licensed agents@lifequotes.com, and we try and give a high level of personal service because everybody's unique. And insurance is one of those weird products that really is not priced until the life underwriter has seen the specifics of you. Whereas if I go into buy a candy bar, I'm paying the same price as the person next to me with insured life insurance, that's not true. It's more specifically crafted the rates. So we just became very, very committed. We started having more success in placement ratios and more success in getting policies issued at the original quote. So the more success we had, the better, and over the years, we attempted to improve the quote engine. Some recent improvements for example, are, uh, um, you can check a box and view only those plans that give you instant decision. That's about the hottest trend in life insurance right now is those companies that offer instant decision underwriting. Another one is a broader category, no exam underwriting, no ParaMed. That's about 50% of our customers. Don't don't require a paramedic exam. And the only way you can accomplish that is, first of all, you have to know which plans don't have a ParaMed. And then you have to know the underwriting guidelines of each plan. So we've had a very, very high success rate with the new, no exam plans in the marketplace. So to us, it having a comprehensive database, which is costly to keep, keep current and maintain, um, to us it's paid off well because the customer has a, a nicer experience. Um, we recently are, we're closing in, on, on, um, 90004.6, three star ratings@livesquads.com. And we actually have our customer feedback as a live stream, 24 seven. And I'm very proud of that because let's face it. Life insurance is a negatively purchased item. Uh, it's not as much fun as buying a new car or taking the trip or something it's kind of a negative. So anything we can do to make it faster, easier, lower costs, people seem to appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Well, that's great. Well, it sounds like one of the benefits of live quotes is really the efficiency that you bring to the process. Um, it brings to mind, um, do you recall a Hank George who was big in underwriting a few years ago? You had a lot of speaking, uh, Hanks, George sounds familiar. Yeah. I can't remember. He, he ended up, um, he was the head underwriter at a couple of companies and he ended up doing a lot of speaking. And I heard him at MDRT, I think back in the 1980s. And he was talking about ratings. He was like, he goes, every rating in our books should come off within the first 10 years. He goes, after 10 years of ratings really don't make a difference. Um, do you feel that that's, uh, reflected in the no exam instant, uh, approval process that really some of the ratings which are additional premiums placed on life insurance policies for our audience, do you think that makes a difference that that's reflected?
Speaker 2:It could be, I'm not an actuary. Um, I'm a CLU chartered life underwriter, but I'm not an actuary is my understanding that the new, no exam plans and instant decision plans, the reason why they can now begin to offer those is because there's better data collection. Um, I mean, let's face it when they offer no exam underwriting. What they're really doing is substituting various publicly available databases. Um, and the person's medical records, which they, they frequently they'll still look at and in place of obtaining your blood and urine and running that through a lab test, running a comprehensive test on that. So they're weighing those two things off. And in order to do, in order to make that kind of determination as to your health, um, they're pulling information from a lot of databases is what I'm told. Um, and there are, are, some of these are very well-known in the insurance community, the Lexus nexus database, the TransUnion TRL life score. Um, there's MIB, there's driving records, there's credit records and there's other databases. So when a life insurance application applicant, excuse me most to shop for life insurance today, you're going to sign a piece of paper called an authorization, and that will allow the life underwriting and pull these medical records. And that does help you to have a nicer, faster experience. Um, so I'm told that that really the way they can do this underwriting without a paramedical exam is, um, the, the quality and reliability of these databases has improved as well as their ability to pull all this information and assimilate it and summarize it and make a decision whether or not doing sure you so it's, it's a good thing. Um, some of the online, some of the, some of the no exam plans. Yeah. Um, you have to be pretty, uh, pretty the healthy candidate to get these. Um, and that's another thing we tried to do it like for us, that Tom is we, um, we not only have the underwriting guidelines in the database that were used on the filter, when you run a quote, we actually show them to you in our illustrations. So we will show you the cholesterol limits, the height and weight tables. We will disclose all of that stuff to you. And that's really important. Say you're a diabetic and you're shopping for life. If insurance, um, type one or two, either one doesn't matter, it's more work for you as the buyer, the applicant, or is the customer to find a life insurer that will offer coverage at a competitive price. Now, a lot has to do with your diabetes being under control versus out of control. But, um, those are the kinds of things that a database can do that has the underwriting guidelines built in. But, um, I think that, that the decision-making right, the yes, no, go, go, no go decision. Making a life underwriter makes on every app. It's interesting because now this computerized trend, the trend is to computerize that, um, and it's not an overnight thing. I mean, this has been going on for five, six, seven years, but it does appear to be now picking up speed, which tells me that the life insurance companies are gaining more confidence in that method of underwriting.
Speaker 1:Definitely. Well, maybe it's changing then that old adage, it, uh, underwriting is more of an art than a science, is that maybe we're trending towards that science end of it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And I grew up in that type of science environment and, uh, uh, or art environment, um, where, you know, the old underwriters in the company would be the gods of the company. Um, that's, that's rapidly changing, I think with Aughra they call it odd rhythmic underwriting or black box underwriting. Um, but it's, it's, there's still life insurance. There's underwriter oversight of these, believe me, they're not just, you know, pumping stuff out the door here. Um, and, and remember life insurance have a, a wide variety of considerations. Does this make sense financially based upon the person's assets or income, does this make sense based upon their hobbies, their lifestyle, all that is still looked at? In fact, we actually advise clients that the no medical underwriting is really, uh, it's, it's a little bit tighter actually than, um, than if you're willing to go through a ParaMed interview, um, because they can't assume anything without the blood and urine samples, they can't really assume anything. So they have to go get everything verified off these databases. And then from there draw a conclusion, but, um, it's an interesting world.
Speaker 1:Well, let me ask you a question about the pricing on those. No exam policies is do the consumers pay a little bit extra to have that convenience of the no exam? Is there a premium on that premium?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question, Tony. That's a great question. There is, there is. And a few years ago, they, those plans were substantially higher. Um, one thing we tried to do@lifequotes.com was, um, show them side by side so that you, as the consumer, the consumer can decide whether to take the paramedic interview or not, which is really not an exam by the way. Uh, it's called examine the industry terms. It's really not an exam. It's really a 15 minute interview where the paramedical technician really re asks you the application questions or closely related set of questions. And they will ask them for a blood and urine samples, but, uh, uh, they, the way the industry's going, I mean, that's, that's the trend, but you absolutely. If you, if you really want at the lowest price, um, take the paramedic exam, take the ParaMed interview. Um, especially if you're healthy and you have nothing to fear, but all things considered, yes, the no exam is higher because they need more premium dollars to cover for the increased risk, because frankly there's just some things they absolutely don't know. You wouldn't know without the lab, but overall the, those premiums have been dropping and coming more in line with the ParaMed plans and for several of our care companies at younger ages, um, the prices are no more expensive now or just a little bit more expensive. So if you qualify and you meet those guidelines that we show, um, then the no exam life insurance purchase is actually, you know, it's very, it's very convenient.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, going back to Hank, George, I think it proves his theory that over the long run, um, the life insurance ratings, uh, or extra premiums that the company is charged, don't make a huge difference at the end of the day, especially if we're seeing the convergence, uh, well maybe not quite the convergence, but the narrowing of the corridor between fully underwritten, uh, life insurance policies and the no exam policies that maybe the insurance companies weren't, uh, you know, I've learned something, uh, which I think is exciting for the consumer. And it's great that life quotes was able to be at the forefront and integrate this into your technology. And I think, well, before many other people, uh, that that's one of the things I've always admired about you and the company is that you've been at the forefront of doing a lot of these things, uh, and how you do business.
Speaker 2:Thank you. We try and stay close to the customer. You know, we do a lot of surveys in the handholding, um, and we just kind of molded the company into what people wanted and you find out if you actually, if you do that, you gain more customers. And, you know, we've been very lucky here. We're closing in on 400,000 customers. And, uh, we've tried to give customer pleasing information. We show the ratings of every company ratings still matter. And all the companies on our website are rated a or better by am best, but we also show the Moody's ratings, the S and P ratings. Um, so ratings are very important for people. I mean, they should, you want to make sure that you're buying from a solvent insurance company?
Speaker 1:Well, definitely it makes sense. You know, because even a 10 year contract is a relatively longterm Kelsey, but when you're talking about a cash value policy that may be enforced for 50 years, right. You know, that's financial stability is important and understanding that I think that's also something that's missed too, as some of these insurance companies that may come in with a lower premiums. They're not as solid financially, which may be a trade off for them, or, you know, any number of factors, uh, you know, there may be more aggressive on the underwriting or what have you. Um, so that's an interesting trade off. And I think, you know, and something I'm sure that you've seen is there are some number of old line insurance companies. We won't call them out by name, but where their premiums are significantly more expensive. Do you feel sometimes that insurance companies manage towards their ratings and their financial strength ratings in terms of setting their volumes?
Speaker 2:You know, I've looked at that over the years and given that a lot of thought, I think that if a company enjoys an a plus or a plus plus very rare rating, I think they're entirely, they're charging more because of that brand cache because of that safety, I think they're entitled to. And when I say entitled to what I mean by that is customer behavior is such that they will pay more. They will willingly pay more for a higher rated company than they will a lower rating company. I think I'm balanced. That's okay. I think that's fine. I think it's, you know, life insurance is a very free market. I know it's highly regulated, but what I mean by free market is it's very, it's a very, it's, it's Adam Smith. There's a lot of suppliers. There's a lot of life insurers competing for your premium dollar. And that's a very good thing for consumers, I think
Speaker 1:Definitely. And I think you hit on something that's important is, you know, I don't disagree when a consumer goes for a policy with one of these companies, uh, where the premiums are a little bit higher. If they're comfortable. It's like some people like, you know, the fanciest car on the market, when an economy car will get you from point a to point B, same thing. So that's fantastic. So, um, what is the target consumer, or who specifically would benefit from life quotes? Is, is there a, well, you know, I used to say that we were targeting
Speaker 2:Self-directed insurance shop, right? So this is the shopper that likes to read, buys things online is curious, has a need, but then over time we bought up our telephone sales operation with licensed agents because people do have questions. And we found out that sometimes I'll listen to our customer service number and some people will call and then hang up and I'll call them back and say, I just curious, why did you call us? And they say, well, I just wondered if a human being was going to answer the phone in a.com. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you know, yes, we are here. We can help you. So we're not like, you know, eBay and Amazon where there's, you know, it's very hard to find an 800 number. We have one on every screen. And the reason why we do is because of the wide variety of coverages or concerns that people have even within the same household, um, many couples will buy policies together or buy two policies. Make sense. Well, let's assume for a moment that one is an at-home caregiver and the others. Well, out of the hall in the old days, pre COVID is the income earner. So you've got the incomer and a caregiver. Those needs are different. And the way you apply how much life insurance they need, those are different needs. And you know, the age. So the age old question, the most popular question we receive is how much should I buy? And the second one is what should my initial rate guarantee be? And those are great questions, but there's no Pat answer for, for everybody. And so we like to pride ourselves on doing a little needs analysis with people and getting to know their situation. Um, maybe you're just getting married or a new job or bought a home or had a baby, or you just don't like the renewal bill. That's now on your kitchen countertop. You just don't like that. Renewable from the company you've been with for years. So everybody's needs are different, or maybe you just got a bad medical test. You just got some very bad nose. And now you're wondering what are my life insurance options, which is entirely natural. And there are products out there. We've got some products that ask no questions at all, going up to a hundred thousand dollars and competitive prices. So there is, there's a very wide variety of product out in the marketplace. Um, some people call and say, I just want enough to be buried. That's called the final expense policy, which is actually a whole life policy. There is a lot of those sold and they fit a lot of people's situation. Uh, industry critics think they're overpriced, but really if the person has no other alternative and they generally do not ask health questions, I I'm perfectly comfortable selling those knowing there's going to be a payoff. I don't ha we don't have any hesitations selling final expense policies. I think they perform a very important need in the market for a certain market for certain customers. But, um, so yeah, the individual, you know, life insurance agents that attend to their customers still have a very bright future ahead of them. I think this is all about attention and attending to the needs of your customer and listening our top salespeople in the company. I ask them all the time, what is your secret of success? And they invariably tell me, I do a lot better with my ears than I do my mouth. And I think that's really appropriate, you know, and it makes me feel good that we're listening our customers.
Speaker 1:That's great. Well, and I think something you mentioned that I think is so lost in so many modern businesses is that you listen to customers yourself. You're active in that process. I think that a lot of CEOs lose touch with what's actually going on with our customers and for you to be actively at all.
Speaker 2:I thank you. I, I, um, I like to have the phone answered on the second ring and we're open 24 seven, and I just, yeah, we run the company a certain way, you know, as it has suited us well, um, we obviously cannot get to know customers as well as a local agent could, but the thing is many of them don't, and we can give more attention to customers spending less amount of money. I understand that the local independent agent, um, has, you know, a higher cost structure per customer. They might have a building, they might have extra physical plant, but we, um, we're fine. We'll, we'll treat someone buying a small policy for a few hundred dollars, like gold.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. I want to try to sneak in a few questions. Um, we're reading really, uh, this has been an amazing conversation. I want to make sure we hit on something. One of the things you and I talked about pre-show is how does life quotes, help people review their life insurance and stay on top of changes in their life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a couple things on the policy review, we do ask people to get their current policy in hand, and then we'll ask them to key fields on it, right? The effective date and how long the wait guarantee is going to go. What happens at the end, what company you're with the basic stuff. So we like to get a handle and we want to draw them into having to know what they have. Um, and that's very, very important, cause it doesn't make sense to make a recommendation until you understand what they have. And we also, if they're working, we want to cover what they have at work. Um, it's never enough at the best work would be one or two times your annual income, but it is something. Um, and then we kind of go to work and craft a recommendation to them. So, you know, we do that by asking probing questions after they buy from us, if they buy a policy from us, we stay in touch by email and newsletter and I try and keep the themes of those. Um, again, related to do a policy review every five years, don't just buy it and put it away and wait, 10 years, don't do that. Um, and for heaven's sake, don't, don't wait until the end of your initial Rick air into your T periods to start shopping, start looking at that one or two years ahead of that when that ends. Um, and if your health changes, you know, give us a call too. So we try and pride policy reviews every five years with our clients by newsletter. And we do quite a bit of repeat business by staying in touch with the customer. And that's one of the criticisms of the insurance industry is that it does not stay in touch with the customer after the initial sale. And we try to do that. We try to weed through the newsletters and telephone and now text all permission-based. Um, we try and stay in touch with our customers that way. Cause there couldn't be a sudden change in the financial standing of a company or something, or there could be something negative that we would need to impart also. But, um, we we've found that it works well if we stay in touch with the customer proactively.
Speaker 1:Well, that's great because life changes. Um, you know, one of the things we, um, also were talking about a little bit is that financial planners, uh, can find value. How do financial planners find value in working with life quotes?
Speaker 2:Well, a couple of ways. One is I mentioned before@lifequotes.com. Um, and by the way, I'm talking about the desktop version here, we have a mobile version, but the mobile version doesn't have the medical underwriting screening. The more robust version for people is the desktop version right now, but financial planners. And a lot of them do use our live site to get quotes and get their pulse on the market. We quote, um, I think$5,000 coverage on the low side and$25 million on the high side. So our service can be of use to financial planners who want to know what is life insurance costs, what is out there in the marketplace and what kind of health and lifestyle profile do you have to get in order to get the very lowest rates? So I would say that we're a valuable information resource to financial planners who are in their practices, uh, you know, advising people on this stuff. Um, and then the, of course the older people get the more important long-term care begins to kind of creep into your consciousness as an item or something that you may need or need to look at. So many of the policies that we track now have the, have the long-term care rider built in on them or it's available. And that is a relatively new area for life insurance. And of course, in financial planners, looking at both those areas.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I, I think we talked about that a little bit about the growth of the combo policies that might be great for our follow-up show. Um, so, you know, my wrap-up question is always, you know, to get people's number one tip. So what's your number one tip on life insurance.
Speaker 2:My number one tip on life insurance. Let me think. Um, it's actually a very easy buy enough, buy enough the first time and don't let it lapse.
Speaker 1:I love that is don't let it lapse.
Speaker 2:Um, I have never yet been to a funeral where the widow is crying over the dead husband saying he had too much life insurance. I can't believe that he had too much life. Insurance has never happened, uh, buy enough the first time and do not let it lapse. We have been involved in some, I call them horror stories, but they're family tragedies where policy lapsed and the customer, you know, died shortly thereafter and the beneficiaries didn't know it lapsed. The other thing is, uh, well, no, you only allowed me one, but okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, if you have another tip, please share,
Speaker 2:Check your beneficiary time to time and make sure that the, your beneficiary is still relevant and stay relevant appropriate.
Speaker 1:Definitely. I think that's a great tip. And you know, and also in terms of letting the policy lapse, I know something that I ran too as a consultant is that somebody will let a policy lapse 10 years out and they may not be able to qualify medically, uh, let alone just being 10 years older and having a higher premium if they have to get a new policy. Um, so I think that's it
Speaker 2:We're writing theme of our newsletter is, do not let your policy lapse in favor of buying a new policy until you have the new policy in your hand and it has paid for then, then canceled the old policy, not until then. And that's a whole nother area of sad. Yes, because you might not be insurable and there are a number of medical conditions that you become uninsurable and it's harder and harder and harder than to get you coverage, especially in the amounts that you had or might want. So, um, yeah. Yeah. The decision to lapse a policy should be, um, you know, taken very seriously,
Speaker 1:Definitely. And I think you hit on something that's super important and is even, uh, often missed by some experienced agents is to make sure their clients understand, to not let their existing life insurance policies lapse until they have the new policy in hand fully enforced and paid for. Um, I think that's an incredibly valuable tip. Um, so for our listeners out there, um, if you want to learn more about Bob, I have links on my site. Um, there'll be links in the show notes to go directly to life quotes.com to get your very own instant term life insurance quote. Um, so Bob, thank you so much for me today. Now this has been fun. Thank you. It's been a real pleasure. Fantastic. I, yeah, it's been great. I've learned a lot and I hope everybody listening out there has picked up some valuable tips and for our listeners, of course, please remember to subscribe to the, get ready with Tony store podcast until next time.