“Knowing what you have and then understanding as much as you can as a foundation for making wise financial decisions going forward.” - Marie Burns
In this episode, I spoke with Marie Burns, author, and host of the Mind, Money, Motion podcast about the inter-relationship between our mindset, money habits, and the motion of our mind and body. We also discussed challenges for women with financial literacy and how people can start their own mind, money, and motion journey.
Bio: Marie Burns, a Certified Financial Planner (CFP®), has been advocating for clients’ financial health for 20 years. Originally from Wisconsin, she has helped clients with their financial lives in a fiduciary capacity in a bank setting, accounting firm, at Vanguard, at a financial planning firm and now writes, speaks, and educates as a financial advocate in her Mind, Money, Motion business and also has an independent advisory and investment management practice called Focus Point Planning. She is on the board of The Financial Awareness Foundation, a member of the Financial Planning Association of Greater Phoenix, on the board of the Senior Advocacy Group of Ahwatukee, on the Women’s Leadership Committee at Mountain Park Church in Ahwatukee, author of a financial checklist book series, and podcast host of Mind, Money, Motion.
“Knowing what you have and then understanding as much as you can as a foundation for making wise financial decisions going forward.” - Marie Burns
In this episode, I spoke with Marie Burns, author, and host of the Mind, Money, Motion podcast about the inter-relationship between our mindset, money habits, and the motion of our mind and body. We also discussed challenges for women with financial literacy and how people can start their own mind, money, and motion journey.
Bio: Marie Burns, a Certified Financial Planner (CFP®), has been advocating for clients’ financial health for 20 years. Originally from Wisconsin, she has helped clients with their financial lives in a fiduciary capacity in a bank setting, accounting firm, at Vanguard, at a financial planning firm and now writes, speaks, and educates as a financial advocate in her Mind, Money, Motion business and also has an independent advisory and investment management practice called Focus Point Planning. She is on the board of The Financial Awareness Foundation, a member of the Financial Planning Association of Greater Phoenix, on the board of the Senior Advocacy Group of Ahwatukee, on the Women’s Leadership Committee at Mountain Park Church in Ahwatukee, author of a financial checklist book series, and podcast host of Mind, Money, Motion.
Welcome to the Tony Stewart podcast, presented by paperwork. Be prepared for life.
Speaker 2:I'm pleased to be joined today by Marie Burns. Marie is an author speaker financial advocate, certified financial planner, and host of the mind money motion podcast. In this episode, we'll be discussing the interrelationship between our mindset, money habits and the motion of our mind and body Marie. Welcome. Thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 3:Thanks Tony. I'm so glad to be here. I think you cover a fantastic array of topics and financial literacy in general is something we all need to know more about.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, that, that we do. Everybody needs a little bit more financial education, so, and I'm just glad you could join us today so we could learn more about your philosophy on financial literacy. Thank you. Yeah. So, um, this is where I always like to start out. Can you tell us, uh, what is your origin story? How did you get started in financial advocacy for women?
Speaker 3:You know, it's a little bit of a long story, so I'll, I'll keep it short, but I've always been kind of a wellness person, you know, high school college, just the whole belief that our lifestyle really impacts our health and, and our, our life potential in general. So that whole wellness aspect, I think, carried through high school college. I was a lifestyle assistant on a campus that had the national wellness Institute. So I ended up following the nutrition and exercise path of that as a registered dietician. That was my degree and my master's for oh a Baker's dozen years or so. So then I shifted from helping people balance their diet and exercise to helping them balance their finances. I started out in a bank setting and, and really was looking more at financial wellness, financial health, where I became an advisor and worked in an accounting firm, worked for Vanguard, worked for a financial planning firm. So had a nice variety of backgrounds where I was really, again, trying to help people balance their finances, but it's really all from a, a good, healthy financial wellness standpoint, because everything is pretty well interrelated.
Speaker 2:It definitely is. You know, I, I hear so much about that is, you know, with the nutrition and the emotion. Um, have you done much work with the psychology of money?
Speaker 3:Yes. You know, I, I think the mind side and that's kind of where my business title came, came all tied together. It's that the more we can take care of our mind, our body, the less we have to worry about money, but the mind is certainly at the top for, for a lot of reasons. I find that it's, it's probably the organ that has the most potential impact on our health and on all of our decision-making. So the money mindset is definitely one thing. I do a lot of workshops on and try to help clients understand in my financial planning practice that I think the initial understanding has to be, you got to where you are today because of very often your childhood, and then the relationships that you've experienced throughout your life has all shaped your money personality. And so it helps us to at least recognize that so that we can move forward. I think too often we feel guilty about whether we're a spender or we're too much of a saver or finances in general make us stressful or whatever our money issue is. But a lot of times that was almost shaped for us by our environment and childhood, and then relationships that we just didn't realize what the impact
Speaker 2:Was. Yeah. Well, that is so interesting. I love how you said that money personality, because people do have those personas, but I think, you know, the other thing you said that's so important is, you know, that whole, maybe intimidation factor when it comes to money or the feeling of overwhelm that you can't get in charge of your finances. Yes.
Speaker 3:And that's where I think I probably have a heart for women because I feel like so often it's just like science and math, right? A lot of times our society raises girls to not be interested or involved in science and math. And a lot of times there's money tied to that. So we don't necessarily learn or end up somehow for a variety of reasons, feeling uncomfortable or uncertain or lacking confidence in the financial side of life. But I know one thing I wanted to, you know, with your insurance background, Tony, maybe you're even aware of, but Hartford insurance. And I don't remember how far back this was, but I found this to be universally true. Did some research finding that most couples, you know, married or not, but when you're in a couple relationship, tend to evolve into one of three different types of couples and that type of couple really influences your money, personality and your money. Decision-making one type of couple. And as I explained this, most of the time, I have people picturing who they're thinking of. If it's not them, maybe it's their parents or a sibling or an adult child. Um, but anyway, the first type of couple was called the driver and passenger couple, one person does all the driving, knows all about the finances and takes care of everything, makes all the decisions. And the passenger is usually pretty happy not to be involved at all, just so glad they don't have to deal with that money stuff. The second category that Hertford founders called the joined at the hip couple, they tend to talk about money together, make all the decisions together, but then still one of them is the doer that takes all the action on, on putting those decisions into place. And then the third type of couple is the divide and conquer couple where they both talk about things, make the decisions together, just like the joint of the hip couple, but then they split the duties. One might do the banking and the bill thing. And one might do the investments in the insurance, for example. So the interesting part about recognizing which type of couple you are in, or I've talked to women that have been through all three types of couples and to understand that so that, you know, why you feel like you do, or I've had women say we're a driver and passenger, and I'm not really comfortable with that. Now that I think about it, I would like to talk to my husband about at least moving into the joint at the hip couples. But the biggest reason I share that with people is because we can probably all guess which type of couple do you think fares the best when one of them is suddenly gone down the road, that third category, the dividing conquer where now the survivor, whichever one, it was just has 50% now dumped in their lap versus the other two really had honor percent dumped into the lap if they weren't the doer of the couple. So it's all good to be aware and, uh, things change then when you are by yourself down the road. So I really liked that piece of research and find it helpful for people to kind of think of where they are and maybe where they want to be, if they can change things. Sometimes we can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so great as thinking about my marriage and what kind of couple of weeks. And, uh, sometimes it's just not, you know, it's goes greater than financial, you know, with my wife, it's a little bit of a balance also the rest of our household duties. Uh, but that, so we don't divide the financial duties as much. We're more the joint at the hip couple. Sure. But she may do some of the other things that I don't do. And that may be a traditional role, uh,
Speaker 3:In it evolve into our own little departments. You know, when we're, we're a couple, I'm very spoiled. My husband takes care of the outside and the vehicles and I'm, I'm more comfortable with the paperwork and the inside of the house, but, but you're right. It's, um, it's just kind of an evolution and usually everybody's happy, but at least the awarenesses and I'll just use my parents as an example. They were the driver and passenger couple, sometimes that's generational, but not always. I've met several couples where the woman is the driver and she's worried how lost he's going to be when she's not here anymore. So my parents were the traditional, my father knew and took care of everything, had a business degree from Marquette and my mother was thrilled. She didn't have to deal with that stuff. So we always just said, mom, you need to at least know where everything is and dad makes sure you label it all really well so we can find it. And so Murphy's law of life, you know, which one gets dementia. It was the driver. So my mother had to finally, you know, learn to write the checks and pay the bills and all of that. So it can be very traumatic if you're not at least aware of where you are. And that's why one of my biggest, uh, workshops that I think is the most helpful that I offer is to help people compile a net worth statement with all the detail of the beneficiaries titling what's where, so that whoever needs to know later can at least see what there is to deal with and to help
Speaker 2:The situation. Yeah, well that, that's so important. It's, you know, I talk about something called a family financial meeting. It's a concept that I try to have people think about is, you know, to, to talk to your spouse every so often, um, or to your anterior adult children and have that conversation. So you may not necessarily have to tell them, you know, what your balance sheet is, but as you point out, have everything labeled, have everything find-able, otherwise stuff goes missing. Well,
Speaker 3:It's like your, your publications it's get ready. Right. It's best to have all of that ready in the calm before the storm, because scrambling at the last minute is painful, stressful, and often more costly.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, well, you have to take care of it. It's like when you're on an airplane, they, they talk about, you know, put on your mask first is if you're not prepared and you're not ready, you're you can't help anybody else. Very true. Very true. Take care of that. Um, so can you tell us, why is it important to think about mind, money and motion as one concept?
Speaker 3:I think when, when we recognize that everything is interrelated, it makes the most sense. So if we, if we start with the mind, you know, which, which is one thing you asked about to begin with to keep our mind and our brain healthy, it needs two key things, blood and oxygen. And so one way we can do that is to stay physically moving, right? That whole advantage of the value of exercise. And the more our mind is healthy with this blood and oxygen, the more able it is to make wise decisions. So that's where the, the money piece comes in. So it's, it's all interrelated. You stopped doing one thing, exercising, for example, then you're not thinking as clearly with your brain and then not able to make as, as, as wise, potentially a financial decisions. So you take any one of those out of the picture and not keeping it healthy. Uh, it's going to backfire at, at wet some
Speaker 2:That's great. And it makes so much sense is, is why do you think more people don't talk about this concept?
Speaker 3:You know, it's, it's, um, it's a society issue. I believe here in the United States, money is still a taboo topic. It is also got a negative, stressful connotation. Nobody talks about money. And I think a lot of folks are brought up to feel like you shouldn't talk about money. And so that means nobody learns about money and our schools, fortunately, I'm in Arizona. So I'm feeling a little bit better about it, but it could be so much better. Only 26 states in our country require personal finance as a criteria to graduate from high school. So we have a long way to go that this to me should be like one of the three RS, right? We, these are, this is a life skill. We all need to learn. If not at home, then, then hopefully certainly in school, ideally in both where you have some role modeling maybe going on. But I think generations of parents just didn't learn it themselves. And then weren't comfortable teaching the children and then they didn't get it in school. So, so many women, I talked to feel almost guilty that they don't know more than, than they wish they would. And I usually look at them and say, how would you know any of this? Where would we have learned any of this? It's unfortunate that, um, I think our society has not yet prioritized this as a life skill to actually it should be in school grade school, middle school, high school, college. It should be in the workplace. It should be offered in the community on regular and consistent basis because it's no different than the importance of not smoking and, and keeping healthy by using a healthy diet and exercise. It's all a part of our wellness that just happens to be the financial piece
Speaker 2:Of our wellness. Yeah. I love what you said about it. Uh, financial literacy should be a life skill and I, I completely agree. And I think the part that goes even deeper is when you talk about that, where could we have learned it is, you know, where, where did we have the opportunity? Most of us didn't have the opportunity to learn any of these skills. And people oftentimes blame themselves for things that really should have somebody should have thought about it. Um,
Speaker 3:Agreed. And you know, the other piece of the education is they talk about the teachable moment. So I'm all for teaching it at every level. And yet I feel like maybe the work site is actually they have a job now they have money, they have benefits. They probably have somewhere, they have to live, pay for food there in the moment of needing to make financial decisions. To me, that's almost the most important place to be sure that we're offering it. And yet in high school, many are going on to school and some are going on to jobs. So they're, again, they're very close to having money to have to make decisions, but if we don't catch them in that motivated, I need to know now because, um, it kind of falls on deaf ears until later when they're kicking themselves wishing they would've paid more attention.
Speaker 2:That's true. You may, if you have a class as a junior in high school and you go to college, then, then you may be talking about six years later and you know, most people can't remember a talk. They went to an hour before theirs.
Speaker 3:That's right. That's right. I understand here in Arizona, they're trying to encourage most schools. They have the personal finance six weeks or so I think as a part of the economics class, and they're trying to encourage the availability and promotion of the class being in the last semester of high school, because like you said, it's the most teachable moment they're almost out on their own. And so they, they are more likely to be paying attention about what should I be thinking about if I'm buying a car or have some income and need to budget for whatever my spending needs
Speaker 2:Are. Yeah. Well, even better would be if somehow it were woven into the full curriculum, because like you said, it's a life skill. It's something that runs through all facets facets of our life. Um, so you've had podcasts for awhile. Uh, can you tell us about your mind money, mind, money, motion podcast.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. I I'm targeted mostly for women mainly because of the statistic that I feel like I probably overshare. And that's the fact that 90% of all women in the United States will at some point be solely in charge of their household finances. So to me, that's a high enough statistic that I'm not going to plan on myself, probably being in the 10%. And I think most women should just know that that means if you're not comfortable with money decisions, it will be wise to get comfortable or, or to partner with someone that can help you feel more comfortable. You know, the, the statistics on, on married couples is that 80% of married men die, married, 80% of married women die single. So it is truly a statistic that we have to be aware of. And then I, I'm a belt and suspenders person I like to prepare and then just be ready in case. And, and, you know, the end question is, it's not, if there's going to be an end to one of your lives, if you're in a couple, it's when, so why not prepare for that and make it easier on one of you, um, by, by having things compiled and thought through and your wishes in writing in advance, for example.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's so important. Um, so what type of guests do you have on your podcast?
Speaker 3:You know, it's amazing how folks from all professions and walks of life can very often fit under one of the three umbrella topics, either mind. And that can be anything from positive thinking to keeping your brain healthy to Alzheimer's prevention. I mean, anything in between a healthy mind, basically the money piece is, is typically developing good financial habits or getting financially organized. Just because that, to me is the base foundation of understanding what you have so that you can make wise decisions. Or then the motion side recently, I've had a couple of, um, wellness coaches, health coaches talking about the importance of blood flow and tips on getting and staying motivated to incorporate exercise into your life. I had an exercise physiologist, so I really try to vary who's sharing information on all of those three topics because they're so interrelated, the better you are in one area, the better influence it will have on another area, whether it's your mind, your body or, or your, um,
Speaker 2:Yeah, nothing is every, just a decision on its own. There's always a bigger picture. Very true, very true perspective. So, you know, as we've talked about, there are specific challenges for women. What are some of the specific challenges for women with financial literacy? Could you go deeper on that?
Speaker 3:Sure. I think, um, the, the primary one is, is the mindset piece. And predominantly it's feeling a lack of confidence, or you don't have clarity, uh, an understanding maybe of, of some of the different financial aspects of your life. Um, lacking confidence in general, or having that mindset of I'm just not good with money. You know, what we tell ourselves is true, right? Whether it's a positive telling ourselves or a negative telling ourselves, we tend to be what we tell ourselves. And so, especially if we've been through maybe a challenging childhood, you know, we're sponges when we're kids. I mean, our, our brain is literally not able to filter. So it absorbs thoughts, sounds conversations, feelings, and there is no distinction of, oh, that good? Nope. That was dysfunctional. Yep. I'm going to be like that. Nope. I'm absolutely not. There's none of that capable in that little brain until you're about seven years old. So they talk about your relationship thermostat being set by the time you're seven years old. And that's your relationship, not just with money, but with people and with food. So all of that has a huge, huge impact. And so that's part of what I try to help bring awareness to women is to recognize that you may have had the deck stacked against you through no control of your own, by the time you got into relationships. And then in relationships, we talked about those three different kinds of couples. You both come into a relationship with your own baggage from your own childhood, and that can go good or not. So good. Um, so, so that whole relationship side of things is, is part of the, the mindset. And then that, that worry Oregon. And I think that's brain wiring that Dave Ramsey talks about is women have a tendency to worry more about things in general, but certainly money as one of those stressors. And our brains tend to see a lot of things all at one time. And so it can be overwhelming. And I think that's part of where our worry tendency comes from. So the mindset, the worry, Oregon for women, uh, and then thirdly, probably, and I hear women tell me this all the time, single women. So whether they lost a husband through death or divorce, or they were never in a relationship, they don't feel like they have anyone else they can talk to about this money stuff. It's not something you want to burden your kids with or something you even usually talk about with girlfriends. So they're feeling like who can I even talk to about my questions or my worries. So those are the three key things that, that I see most often on women's minds when it comes to personal finance and financial literacy in general.
Speaker 2:Well, that's great. You know, it's all, you know, we all have our lens or our experiences issue point out that impact, uh, you know, how we deal with money and how we view money. Um, so, you know, as we talk about this is how do you feel we can improve financial literacy?
Speaker 3:I think it has to be a coordinated effort where it's more available from more than one source. You know, we, we all know we can find so many things online. And so if you, if you went online and, and tried to find, you know, resources to be reading and teaching yourself and attending some, some courses, that's, that's an option. Um, but I, again, I think it would be most beneficial to have it just available pervasively. So in the work site, in the community, um, hopefully children are, are being encouraged to participate in things in the school setting. And parents are invited to come in and learn about what the children are, are learning in school or there's education for parents. You know, even just in, in high school, as an example, to bring the parents in and help them understand to help the students understand what it means to go on to school and how debt can impact that, that decision and so on. But so to me, we, we really need to have it available in lots of different areas, because it's a constant life skill. We will always have no matter what our profession, where we live, man, or woman country or otherwise, uh, something will be facing financial decisions for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 2:That's great. I think that's probably the most important point there is, you know, it's ongoing, um, you know, it doesn't end at a certain day at it changes, uh, through all the phases of our life. And the other thing that you said that I think is really important is that having the parents and faults, because the parents haven't like we talked about earlier, like you mentioned, as the parents haven't learned those skills themselves. Right. And so it's an opportunity for the parents to learn something they didn't know either. So that's, that's great. Um, so to, to wrap up is what's your number one tip on being financially prepared?
Speaker 3:You know, I, I'm a big believer in knowing what you have and then understanding as much of it as you can as, as a foundation for making wise financial decisions going forward. And so, so often I think it's a case where, especially if you're in a couple, depending on what your role is in the couple, you might deal with the bank account or the 401k or the life insurance or, or whatever piece of the financial life it is, but you might not understand it all, or you might not deal with it at all. So again, I know I mentioned this before the whole take a financial inventory as a, as a base starting point. I think for adults, you know, for kids, this would be a different situation, but for adults to take a snapshot of, it's really asking yourself, what are my resources in my money toolbox? And that's the other thing we didn't really talk much about, but I really wish that we can take the emotion out of money, make it less taboo and the less emotional we are, the better decisions we can make. So my one tip would be to take an inventory of what you have so that you're both knowing and understanding if you're in a couple relationship, but even it helps you, especially as you see your stock market going up and down. And if you can keep looking at your inventory and say, well, not, not everything is going up and down. I have maybe a home, I have a bank account that stuff isn't going like the roller coaster of the stock market. It can help you weather through, I think some of what life throws at us financially as well. So that's a big part of my mind, money, motion, business. I have a website that I, I write blogs to help focus on this. I've designed, um, a financial inventory it's called my net worth summary and lots of other checklists from different resources, the financial awareness foundation, uh, Everplans, I've designed a couple of myself, so free tools that I'm encouraging women in particular to, to download and start using some of these checklists to just get a little better handle on what's in your financial inventory to help give you a little bit more peace of mind.
Speaker 2:Okay. That's great. And, uh, for our listeners or viewers is, um, I will be posting, uh, links to Marie's website. So you can, um, find out more about Marie and, uh, the resources that she mentioned and also a link to your podcast. Um, so you've already mentioned, um, your resources there, anything else, or anywhere else that people can learn more about you and starting their own mind money in motion journey.
Speaker 3:It depends what, you know, what social media people use. Pinterest is becoming more popular, especially with women. So I'm starting to create some awareness over on the Pinterest side, but it really brings folks back to the mind money, motion website. That's where my resources, blog, podcasts, workshops, uh, videos. I have a YouTube channel. So it's kind of a nice starting point for you to browse around, check out my financial open house tour. Um, there's a variety of things to try to make it fun and interesting, and everybody learns in a different way. So I'm like video some like paper and pencil, some like to listen, some like to read. So I tried a little bit for everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's great. And I would encourage people to, uh, visit Marise website. I really liked, especially the financial open house concept. It's a great way to sort of peek at different financial topics and, and learn more about them. Um, summary, thanks again for joining me. Thank you. It's been my pleasure, Tony. Yeah, it's been great having you on, um, and for everybody out there, um, thanks for tuning in. Please remember to subscribe until next time.