The Tony Steuer Podcast with Mac Gardner: Bridging Financial Literacy and Financial Technology

“Good financial habits become good financial behaviors which inevitably become good financial traits.”  Mac Gardner

Financial literacy educational resources are needed more than ever. Financial technology (fintech) continues to impact our lives. Mac Gardner, Founder of FinLit Tech joined me to talk about the combination of FinLit & FinTech. We talked about how families will benefit from his latest book “The Four Money Bears”. Mac also discussed how we can increase diversity and inclusion in the financial services industry. 

Bio: 

Mac Gardner, is a Certified Financial Planner, Speaker, Founder and Chief Education Officer of FinLit Tech along with being the author of “Motivate Your Money” and “The Four Money Bears”. Mac also serves as Founder and Chief Education Officer of FinLit Tech. FinLit Tech is on a mission to "Build a Bridge Between Financial Literacy & Financial Technology". As Chief Education Officer, he works to develop financial education content, provide research & market data, and connect FinTech resources to create digital platforms that are used to increase Financial Literacy and promote Financial Wellness.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You're listening to the Tony Stewart podcast, where Tony interviews, financial literacy advocates who are changing the conversation on money. So you can catch up on the latest trends and ideas in the world of financial literacy and education presented by paperwork. Be prepared for life.

Speaker 2: 0:22

Welcome to the Tony Stewart podcast presented by paperwork. I'm pleased to be joined today by Matt Gardner. Matt Gardner is an author, financial literacy advocate and founder and chief education officer of Finland tech. In this episode, we'll be discussing Mack's book, the four money bears and Finland tech. I'm going to try a new trick to see if I can get it on there on the camera. Can't see it. It will be in the show notes. There we go. And a Mac, you can find your book on Amazon, right?

Speaker 3: 0:56

Yeah. Like you can find pretty much everything nowadays. Yeah. All those boxes that come to your front door with a smile on it, you can get a, a copy of the formerly bears in one of those boxes are on the lips. There

Speaker 2: 1:06

You go. Next time you place your order. Get an, uh, get a copy of the form money bears. Anyway, Mac. It's great to have you on today. Thanks for joining me.

Speaker 3: 1:14

Thanks for having me, Tony. Uh, you are a great ambassador to some of the things that we're doing here at Finland tech and financial literacy. And so when, uh, when our paths crossed and you said Mac, I'd like to put something together to, to kind of share your story. I thought it was great because I got a chance to hear your story as well. So thanks for having me, uh, on your, on your show today.

Speaker 2: 1:37

Hey, I'm honored to have you, you're doing great work as well. It's exciting to be able to catch up with you. Um, so, you know, as we get into it, I always like to ask people to share a little bit about their origin story and how they got started in financial education.

Speaker 3: 1:50

Sure, sure. So my first book is actually titled motivate your money. Uh, that one was written for adults and my sort of financial education path started, I guess, about seven or eight years ago when I had my own practice, uh, in Houston. And I was working with people that were wealthy, you know, they, they had, they had investible assets, but it was just very interesting to see that a lot of them though, they had a mass, a lot of money, Tony, they really didn't have a lot of financial planning, knowledge or financial literacy quote unquote, when it comes to, let's say the difference between a permit insurer and permanent insurance and a term insurance, or, you know, w w why a 401k may be better than an IRA and some of the tax benefits to tax defer, those things that you and I sort of take for granted because we're in this business. And so that's why I wrote the first book motivates money as a sort of primer for both the consumer, as well as the financial advisor. Uh, I've been blessed to have been in the business for 20 plus years. I've won a lot of different hats, commercial lender, corporate retirement plan, specialist, wealth manager, advanced markets, wholesaler, a lot of cool stuff. And so the first book was a, an attempt to provide some guidelines in a easy to understand way for prospects and folks that I'll be working with in my practice.

Speaker 2: 3:15

Well, that's great now. So what do you consider, um, some basic important guidelines, you know, just kind of a rough sketch from your book.

Speaker 3: 3:23

So I talk about the five steps to financial success, uh, when you're dealing with financial planning, the first step is plan accordingly. And so I'm a huge proponent. I am a certified financial planner, forgot to mention that a huge proponent of, of planning. Uh, I like to say all planning is bringing the future into the present to do something about it today, really what we're doing with planning. So you have to plan accordingly to is to, is to spend cautiously three is to save diligently. Four is to invest wisely and five is to give generously. So those are sort of the five core tenants of my book is that you've got to go through these steps. And if you do those five things over time, amazing things will happen. And all of a sudden, you'll, you'll, you'll have, you know, some financial security and hopefully financial wellness and be able to achieve some of the things that you want to achieve later in life.

Speaker 2: 4:16

Well, that's fantastic. And I love how you couch each of them with an adjective, you know, not spent diligently because that wouldn't be good, but give generously, you know, I, you know, I love it. And, and the giving is part of it because I think, I mean, you and I give back, uh, in financial literacy is, is one way to give back, but know, just giving, you know, not only if your money, but of your time and your spirit, it's such an important component that people don't consider as part of their financial plan. Always. Yeah,

Speaker 3: 4:46

That's so true. And it's interesting because I wrote the first book for adults and what happened was a year into my practice. One of my clients came to me and said, Mac, well, the first book, lots of cool Mac nuggets. That's what I call the Mac nuggets, little, little words, little phrases that I picked up over the years to kind of help simplify and make things easy to understand. She said, Hey, would you be open to maybe creating something, a format for kids? And I was like, okay, not a bad idea. And so did some researches and due diligence and found out that a child's connectivity with money actually starts by age seven. And so that is when the idea for the four money bears came about is I took and distilled those four functions of money. Remember only four things you could do with it, spend it, save an investor to give it away and created the full money beers, spender beer, save a bear investigator, give a bear. And the four money barriers really is a, is a fun and entertaining way for a parent who probably never got this conversation or never got this experience, exposure themselves a fun way for them to able to start the conversation with their kids. So that's the story of the four money bears and how it came to be.

Speaker 2: 6:04

Well, that's great. And I think that's so important which you hit on there is that so often we assume that parents know something about money, and so often they don't. So it's great that you're able to couch it in a way that it, same time the kids are learning. The parents are able to benefit as well from live. The very basics. Uh, the financial services industry does a great job of throwing a lot of information at people. Like what's the difference between an exchange traded fund and, you know, mutual fund, but people are like, no, wait a minute. Back up. What is a stock market? No.

Speaker 3: 6:42

So, you know, uh, I tell folks all the time that all, I believe in my heart of heart, Tony, the all we are at the end of our days is a collection of stories, right? Oh yeah. We live our life and we hear him share stories and our kids will hear these stories and they'll hear the stories about what to stock and what's a bond and what's a fund and what's a 401k they'll heal up there, hear those terms, those words in our home, but a vast majority of children won't ever get that experience, whatever, get that exposure and whatever, get those stories. And so that's really what we're trying to do with the full money bears book is to give parents a tool, something that can just start the conversation, because if you can start the conversation in your own home and not have to rely on schools, and we can talk about that a little further down the line. Um, I think it gives our kids a huge opportunity to, to make some, some healthy financial decisions, which will lead to healthy financial habits, which will lead to healthy by, uh, financial behaviors and then financial traits.

Speaker 2: 7:46

Yeah. That, that that's exactly it is, you know, you have to start at the basic with those healthy financial habits. And I think that helps protect people. Um, you know, one of the things is I got my start doing a lot of consumer advocacy work and, you know, fraud prevention and that's, you know, people just knew the basics that would help them avoid, you know, some of the financial predatory practices around there. So that's great. Um, so, you know, skipping ahead to one of the questions that I was going to ask you later, but I think it's timely as talk a little bit about diversity and inclusion, because I think one of the things too, is it's something about the money bears might be, you know, more applicable across the spectrum. You and I have talked about the lack of diversity and inclusion in the financial service industry. Do you think something like the four money bears can help bring financial literacy to different communities?

Speaker 3: 8:44

Yeah. Oh man. We could spend a full hour.

Speaker 4: 8:48

I, I got to live in that question. Uh,

Speaker 3: 8:52

Okay. So when designed and when I was putting together this for money bears concept, if you can see here intentionally made for the bears bought two of the bears boys, two of the bears group intentionally made them all different colors. And, and that was a not so subtle nod to, uh, the need for diversity and inclusion, not just in how children are receiving this information because typically, um, you know, kids that are in low socioeconomic schools or areas or regions, they're the ones that, that, that need this information a lot more than, you know, maybe some of the more privileged zip codes or regions and our society. So that's one aspect. The other aspect that you mentioned, which is the financial services arena, the reason why I think the four money beers can help expand things there from a very, very early place, a stage is because a lot of young people don't realize that this is actually a job that there's actually a role, a career to be a certified financial planner or financial advisor we're in, that's what you do with you, help people deal with their money. And if you're not taught this information in schools, you know, and when you typically ask a child, okay, what's the career you'd want to bring home to mom and dad and tell them you want to be a doctor or a lawyer or an attorney, or maybe an engineer or something along those lines. But no kid runs in saying, yeah, I want to be a certified financial planner. You know? And, and, and, and, and if there are kids that doing that, very few of them are kids of color is aid they're there. So the hope is, is if we can start making financial literacy and financial education, something that starts at an early age, and it becomes a priority in that child's mind to know that, Hey, I have other options besides going to the store and spending the stuff on toys and candy or put in my piggy bank, I can actually invest this money and put it into something and own the company that makes all that cool stuff like buying, or I can, I can give it to family members or, or places that need the resource. I, I know I have four options. Hey, you mean, I can actually have a career in doing this where I can go out and share this with other people. And our ad financial advisory industry needs more diversity. It needs an advisory force that looks like our society. And I think financial education at an early age is something that can, that can help to, to make that a reality.

Speaker 2: 11:39

Definitely. And I think that gets to your earlier point too, is that as the kids learn it, some of these parents who never had the opportunity to learn it as well, and some of these communities will be able to pick up some basic, basic financial tips. And as I mentioned before, as well as some of these underserved communities are more often targets of financial predators, they may pay higher loan rates. They use payday loan service. I mean, we could go down and talk about that probably for a whole episode. So, so I, I, I think it's a brilliant way to reach a different demographic, but it's you said is to inspire a new generation, to look to the financial services industry that they can have a career in financial services. That it's not something that just for a certain group of people. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 12:31

Yeah. I, I heard a, I heard I was at a one of these junkets and it was, I believe it was a money guy pro one of their executives stood up in the middle of this, of this conference and said, Hey folks, we've got a problem. The financial services industry is male pale and stale. A white man said that. And he's right. You know, the typical wealth manager, financial advisor CFP is a older aged white man. And that industry has been represented by that sort of look for a long time. And we're now starting to see more younger people. We've seen what CFP board is doing, uh, to, to increase the awareness of diversity and inclusion. And, um, the things that we're doing at my firm, Finland tech, which is, you know, our mission is simply to build a bridge between financial literacy and financial technology. Um, the things that we're doing right now, uh, is definitely in line with increasing more diversity inclusion, because if we can get technology as this tool to, to scale knowledge and scale financial literacy, you can get it out to more people and guess what? You have more people out there getting, uh, getting this information and, and, and seeing, uh, seeing the benefits of it then for them personally, and, and potentially as a career.

Speaker 2: 13:54

Well, that's great. You know, and with that said is about Finland tech is, do you feel that Finland tech is one way we can improve financial literacy with the work that you're doing? I mean, obviously you do.

Speaker 3: 14:07

Yeah. So our company came about because we published the book five years ago, man. Maybe the six time flies when you're having fun. And you have young kids alert book. Yeah. Right. Publish the book. And, um, you know, everyone loved the book. Max great book. I sent a copy of the book off to about 30 of the state school boards heard back from 11 and love the book, the process, Tony, to get a book approved in a public school is mind blowing. It literally is. I, I would have to literally stop, quit my job and just focus on all the red tape that needs to be done to get a, into a public. But it's tough. It's hard. One of the things I noticed though, was that kids are learning differently. I mean, my generation, you know, it's books, workbooks and textbooks, you know, chalk boards, um, kids nowadays are learning food, digital formats. You know, they have their iPads, they have their laptops. And I would go to my kids' schools and I would see these kids learning on these various devices. And I said, you know, what, why am I, you know, trying to wrap my head against this wall to try to get this book in this public school, why don't we create an app or some sort of digital platform of the four money bears that would serve as sort of this on-ramp to financial education for young kids at the elementary school level, which is when it's needed. And so that's, that's how Finland tech was born. That's what we're doing now, where we're working to build technology and consult with companies who are looking to utilize technology to increase financial literacy.

Speaker 2: 15:45

Well, that's great. You know, it's fantastic that you're doing that because I, I think that that's you hit it is that it's seven years old is you can really reach kids at an age when they are starting to observe or absorb those lessons. And they aren't already set in their ways, um, you know, where they don't have to change your spending habits because, you know, at seven, you know, their, their spending habits aren't really set yet for the most part, you know, beyond Laos.

Speaker 3: 16:18

And, and so it's really interesting point that you make there. So, um, the first habit a child picks up from, from their parents is they're spending out interestingly enough. So statistics have shown that I do a, I do a neat exercise that started off just for fun to anywhere. I have a a hundred dollar bill and I bring it in, bring it to show the kids. And if I give them a hundred dollars, but what you do with hi is just start flying up, buy sneakers and candy and toys and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I did this over and over and over again, and it became an experiment and it became something that I could, I could actually prove empirically that, you know, children are conditioned to consume from a very early age. Like the first response is to go and buy stuff. I have one kid that would say, oh, I'd put in my piggyback. I'm like, no, you wouldn't stop. You wouldn't put in your big amount. That's not the first thing you did, but, but, but, so, so that's why, um, when you make that statement about, you know, starting them early, it's important because here's the other aspect to kind of fold into this mix that we're living in right now. And in the United States, only 21 states require financial literacy by high school, high school, senior year, typically high school. Okay. 21 states, 17, 18. Right? So if studies show that a child's activity with money starts by age seven, to your point, Tony, that's 10 years of either no information or misinformation about finances and what to do with your money. So imagine if we could close that gap, you know,

Speaker 2: 18:00

Definitely. I mean, and it should, you know, I mean, one of the things I've talked about is that there should be family, financial meetings is, you know, financial planners may meet with one of the spouse, both spouses, but sometimes, you know, it doesn't go beyond that. You know, have you started, as some of the work you're doing is to, to really speak holistically about that. I mean, that's what, you're where you're going with the money bears is that conversation you're having. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:28

It it's, it's again, the, the, the point about stories or your own life stories. And so I can't tell you how many times I've seen in my professional career, uh, wherein you will have parents who have accumulated a good amount of wealth, right? Wealth is relative, right? Numbers are relative, but a good amount of wealth. And we'll put together a financial plan and they'll ask him, have you sat down with your adult children, not necessarily minor children, but adult children to discuss your overall financial picture. And you were saying, I can't tell him, tell him that the response is, no, I haven't talked to them about it. You haven't talked to her like these are the people that at some point in time, if we're fortunate and blessed will eventually inherit these assets and all this hard work that you put in, if you own a business and you have the fortunate to sell your business and liquidate and have certain amount of money, they're eventually going to get it. But you haven't had conversations, uh, about this, this, this financial picture, you know, and, and it happens way too often. And a lot of times it's because folks just aren't comfortable and just don't know how to have that conversation because they never really had it themselves from other generations. So imagine if we could start the conversation with our kids, when they're young, we'll let them know what the four options are. And you made a point earlier that some parents are getting some good tidbits out of this. I can't tell you how many times I've had parents say, Mac, thank you for not making this form when he bears book to kitty, because you're actually teaching me something that stocks, bonds on and so forth. So yeah, I think communication is key. You got to have the communication and, and, and the, if you can find fun and entertaining tools to get the communication going and get it started the better off it would be for everybody in the family union.

Speaker 2: 20:19

Yeah. Well, that's great. That's great. Well, so as we wrap up, uh, you know, what's your number one tip on being financially prepared?

Speaker 3: 20:30

I mentioned earlier, planning is important. Um, I'll mention two other things, habits, behaviors, traits, you know, good financial habits become good financial behaviors, which inevitably come good financial traits. I'm a huge advocate of that. The other thing I'm a big advocate as of is, is I tell clients you can't eat tomorrow, what you didn't plan yesterday. So you got to start these things as early as possible. You you've got to start putting money away, saving, uh, practicing those, those four functions. Again, you know, spend cautiously being aware of every dollar that comes in and out of your, your, your financial household, uh, save diligently, you know, just, just put something away, great book out there for those who like to read good books. This book called the richest man in Babylon, somebody who may have heard it may read, it talks about saving 10% of every dollar you've ever earned. Um, and then invest wisely. A lot of times you may need some help or some guidance, but technology out there is allowing folks to have access to the market. Fractional shares. Uh, you know, there's a tons of tons of platforms out there. Uh, quick, quick, shout out to, uh, some colleagues of mine that are in this, uh, Finland tech space, uh, Greenlight, you may have heard of it. Some of you may have heard of Greenlight. That platform is awesome. They are banking app for kids, parents, and kids, but they've also just recently introduced the ability for kids to be able to invest Tony, which is awesome. And then of course the fourth one is to, um, to give generously if you find yourself in a position to be able to help others that are in need, help them out, you know, financially or with your time.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Yeah, that's awesome. And I have a green-light on my phone. Uh, we use it in our family and it's, it is a fantastic tool William played with the investing component yet. Uh, but just in terms of the savings and everything, you know, I know my son set goals, it's usually about a gaming system, but for sure.

Speaker 3: 22:27

Yeah, yeah. Papa, th th th th the new major league baseball or the, the new two K or 5k, or, and I, how much is it going to cost us what you got to do

Speaker 2: 22:38

Exactly. But it's a start, you know, it's the principles, you know, it's not so much what the goal is. Sometimes when they're a kid, it's just that they're establishing the goal and learning to work at it and everything. But, you know, I don't charge my son interest at too high of a rate, you know, so

Speaker 3: 22:57

It's a neat tool. It's a neat tool. And again, it's just, it's the proliferation, there's another great platform out there, uh, called goal-setter, uh, that's another neat platform. So you're going to start seeing more of them out there. And that's what we're, we're building Finland tech to be is to be that destination for folks who are interested in the financial literacy, financial technology space to come and see these great tools, these great resources, uh, get access to knowledge, get access to capital, get access to, uh, any, any sort of resource that can help them on this mission, because it's, it's a huge, huge undertaking. There is a ton of, uh, there's a ton of people out there that just need the help. And so the more people that we can have focusing on this space, I think the better

Speaker 2: 23:50

Definitely. Yeah, it's a worthy cause and, you know, everybody has money. Yeah. Everybody's got to deal with it. I just want to make smart choices in there. Right.

Speaker 3: 24:02

And here's another funny thing I like to, I like to share with people it's interesting because, um, money doesn't care, what you look like, money doesn't care, what you sound like, money doesn't care, what you're from, money's just a tool, right? And so the idea through our resources and our platform, the four money barriers motivate your money is just to provide guidance on how to use that tool and then provide it from an early age. And so we're, we're, we're continuing to do really great things. We've got an amazing partnership right now, and the tech does with easy money and we're helping them build out their, and, and do some designing and, uh, some really neat, uh, diversity and inclusion, uh, initiatives, uh, uh, with their, uh, their, they have a new app called incentive, really, really neat, uh, financial wellness app. And so our firm is working in partnership with the money to get that out to the community and really help people when it comes to starting off their financial planning process. So the journey continues Tony, as you know, the journey continues.

Speaker 2: 25:02

Yeah, it does. It does. So Mac, uh, where can people learn more about you and stay in touch with you?

Speaker 3: 25:08

So you can definitely check out the four money bears book at, at the website www.thefourmoneybears.com. That's F O U R as in the number for the other book. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. If we have, um, the, the other book, uh, motivate your money again, uh, www motivate your money.com and then our company, Finland tech is a Finland tech.com. So you can find us there. Uh, you can find us on LinkedIn to try to keep, uh, keep things out there and keep, uh, keep that profile active. It's a great community to meet great folks like yourself and other people that are active in this financial education, financial wellness space.

Speaker 2: 25:53

Fantastic. Yeah. And for everybody who's watching or listening is I will be posting links to max books and website and LinkedIn profile in the show notes. So that's also a great way to connect with Mac may Mac. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 3: 26:10

Thank you for having me, Tony. It was a pleasure. And, uh, anytime you want to jump on a call and talk about what's going on in the financial education, financial wellness space, just to know that you've got a friend and someone who's willing to talk with you,

Speaker 2: 26:25

[inaudible], it's been a pleasure. It's been a fantastic conversation. Um, and thank you everybody for tuning into the Tony Stewart podcast. Uh, please remember to subscribe and until next time, yeah.