On the latest episode of The Tony Steuer Podcast, I spoke with Julie Pinkerton, CEO and Managing Member of Evozen LLC about the importance of putting clients' needs front and center.
Julie Pinkerton is the CEO and Managing Member of Evozen LLC. ClientFirst™ is a fully diverse online community that enables financial professionals to truly put their client's needs first, assists mature financial advisors to exit the industry gracefully, and positions women and minorities to achieve the necessary gravitas to succeed early in their career. Julie has held executive and consulting positions nationally in financial services since 1998. Julie is a contributing writer for U.S. News covering financial planning, risk management, and advisor selection topics.
In this episode we discussed:
On the latest episode of The Tony Steuer Podcast, I spoke with Julie Pinkerton, CEO and Managing Member of Evozen LLC about the importance of putting clients' needs front and center.
Julie Pinkerton is the CEO and Managing Member of Evozen LLC. ClientFirst™ is a fully diverse online community that enables financial professionals to truly put their client's needs first, assists mature financial advisors to exit the industry gracefully, and positions women and minorities to achieve the necessary gravitas to succeed early in their career. Julie has held executive and consulting positions nationally in financial services since 1998. Julie is a contributing writer for U.S. News covering financial planning, risk management, and advisor selection topics.
In this episode we discussed:
You're listening to the Tony Steuer Podcast, where Tony interviews financial literacy advocates who are changing the conversation on money. So you can catch up on the latest trends and ideas in the world of financial literacy and education. Presented by Paperwork. Be prepared for life.
Tony:Welcome to the Tony Steuer Podcast presented by Paperwork. I'm pleased to be joined today by Julie Pinkerton. Julie is the CEO of Evozen LLC and founder of Client First, an emerging FinTech platform that enables mature financial advisors to exit gracefully and women and minorities to achieve gravitas more quickly in the financial services industry. In this episode, we'll be discussing the Client First platform, the importance of putting client needs first, and why diversity is important in the financial services community. Julie, welcome to the Tony Steuer Podcast.
Julie:Thank you so much, Tony. I appreciate getting to be with you today.
Tony:Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you. So Julie, to get started it's always interesting to hear people's origin stories. Can you share with us, what is your origin story? How did your career lead you to starting Evozen?
Julie:Absolutely. I've been in the business for 35 years now and I have actually worked in a home office, I've worked as a retail insurance agent and financial advisor, and I've been in the corporate world. My last corporate position was with a large west coast company. And there worked my way all the way up to my last role was working with financial advisors and practice management sales ideas, and bridging the world between financial advisory and insurance products. And always had a plan B and that plan B was if I ever had decided that you know, I wasn't happy with what I was doing, what would I do next? So instead of doing new year's resolutions, I would always have, you know, update my plan B. So every January I'd pull it out. And the last January before I partnered with my last company, I had decided that there was, you know, you see it, you come to a point where you realize that there's an existing problem in your business and for ours, it was the statistic that even despite over a decade of diversity initiatives, there were still almost exactly the same number of women in the business. And you think somebody needs to do something about that. And then you realize that maybe you're part of that someone. And so the last plan that I had updated in January 2017 was to create that bridge, to be able to do that. And so in late January when company and I decided to part ways, then I did that plan and rolled it out and that's what's become Evozen.
Tony:Well, that's great. And I think that is such an important issue to focus on is, we see it in so many areas as people know that there's an issue, there's an issue for a really long time and not much changes. So it's great to see someone like you who's deciding to take action to hopefully change the conversation a little bit. And I think that's what led to your new platform, right?
Julie:It did. So much of our industry has been built in a certain fashion. Obviously, you know, it's a male dominated industry and a Caucasian dominated industry. And you know, at some point that sometimes works sometimes doesn't and there was a lot of areas that, that I saw where the crossover of those two had so many opportunities that were being missed. And when we're in a business that we're looking and planning ahead for the future and the future was changing. And so it was an opportunity to be able to put my voice out there and be able to show a path that was from a female's perspective and to be able to bring, integrate those two visions together into something that hopefully works better for all of us.
Tony:Well, that's great. And I think so many people feel left out of the financial conversation because it's not about them. As another guest put it, somebody else in the financial literacy community, the financial services world is pale male and stale. And I think that really nails it is, so many people are not talked to by the financial services industry. So, you've created this platform called Client First, what is Client First
Julie:Client First is to is taking those two perspectives and being able to take a look and say, what are the problems in the industry? Obviously, we do have a lot of mature advisors that, especially with COVID, that they're looking to perhaps contemplate what their final chapter looks like in the business, but we also have a lot of women and minorities that are trying to be properly positioned to be able to achieve gravitas. And the irony of it all is, is that I, I think that there's this feeling that we really have to do all this big hall push work to be able to create a better path for both of those. But the out of the whole thing is that the client out there's number one concern is that they haven't been heard. They haven't been seen, they haven't been heard, and it doesn't matter what gender, what background, what ethnicity, whatever. They all have that feeling. And so the thing about it is when we have a regulatory environment, that's continuing to you know, say, Hey, we need to put the client first. We need to do what is in their best interest. I've learned over my 35 years that when I serve others, well, I tend to be served very well. And so by creating a community that literally has its eyeballs on the client first, what happens is that there is a natural flow that allows for those other two large problems to be able to be resolved. And so I wanna, wanting to create an environment that actually embraced the regulation, whether it's the fiduciary rule, DOL, best interests, call it what you want. All of those are still trying to be able to get to that point. And so if we can embrace that, then we have the ability to be able to, again, increase the valuations of the firms for the retiring executives and said, they have a chance to be able to exit out of their practices at the highest possible rate. And we are able to create a pool of advisors that can come in and help make that succession even that much easier, because we have all these women minorities that now will be properly positioned to take advantage of that opportunity.
Tony:Well, that's great. And I think that's something that the financial services community so often misses is, it's product first, quite often, and then trying to find the people to fit into that product rather than taking a look and saying, okay, maybe this is what people want and leading that way. So I think that's, you've probably already gotten to this question, but let's delve a little bit deeper is why is it important to put client's needs front and center?
Julie:Absolutely. You know, if we're going to truly serve our clients best, first of all, the industry has been fighting over the same 15% of the market for a very long period of time: high net worth, pale, male, stale, whatever however people want to phrase it. They've been fighting over that market. And in that time period, women certainly have increased their ability in the financial community and the financial power and clout that they have. And yet, they're still being left behind, but it's interesting because the other push pull that exists in the industry is of course the hind fees versus commissions. And, you know, again, we're getting back into the regulation and what is a fiduciary and the differences among those. And there was a, a conference that I went to in 2016 and it was an amazing conference. And there was a firm there that was giving a presentation on philanthropic planning. So, you know, of obviously a very notable goal to be able to make other lives better, these two partners. And I'm not giving too many details because I don't want to put the advisors in a bad position, but I heard these two partners give probably the best presentation I've ever heard at a conference. I mean, their material was spot on. Their planning was, you know, top notch. They're really, truly at the top of their game and some of the best in the industry, but in the very end, there was only time for one question. And one of the people in the crowd stood up and said, do you ever have somebody who doesn't implement one of these, these plans? They're, they're amazing. And they're like, oh yeah, we just, we had one that they had worked with for almost two years. And again, because of their expertise, their fees are fairly high. And in the end they didn't implement it because they couldn't come up with a way to equalize the estate. And the reality is, is in the insurance community that could have been easily accomplished with two term policies. And so, but it wasn't in their line of sight because obviously life insurance is, is typically a commissionable product and they were fiduciaries. And so they were only working in the fee-based arena. And so the thing is, is that sometimes we're not serving our clients best, simply because they're not able to implement the expert advice that we're able to give them. And so if we can resolve some of these inner conflicts amongst ourselves, then we have an opportunity to truly put the client's needs best because in that particular case, the client didn't have their plan implemented obviously by their choice. But they also lost out on the fees that they had paid to be able to get to that point. And so if the client's not able to implement a plan, then have we really served them as best as we can. And so by taking a look and saying, if that person could have reached out to their network and now, you know, and, and to be able to have a, have a have a network that they trust that they have vetted properly, according to fiduciary standards, then they could have gone to them and said, here's where we're at with this particular client. Do you think that you have anything in your toolbox that I might be able to refer this client to so they could have maintained their fiduciary standard, maintain how they're presenting themselves to their clients, but brought in somebody who could have resolved that one little bitty bump in the road and been able to, everybody could have had a much better outcome. So that's why I believe that by putting the client's needs first and finding how to break that wall down is, is a better way to be able to serve, serve them fully and completely. In the process, there's a lot of products. COVID made us very familiar with the idea that we not only have to plan for our financial futures, that there can be something so big and so unexpected that having that emergency fund is so important, but it also brought to terms that we do have mortality issues that there, the long haulers are finding out that there's long-term care issues. And these are all products that are across the spectrum of both fee and fee in commission solutions. And so I think that we really have an opportunity this year to be able to bridge those together, because each of them has their place when they're used properly. And that's the question of course is, can we use them properly among each other? And that's where I think client first community has a real leg up in the, in the answers and solutions.
Tony:Definitely. I completely agree with you. And I've seen that over the course of my career as well, is that you have this mismatch because you may have a fee-based advisor who doesn't want to use a commission-based insurance agent. And so you have sort of these bumpy plans or situations like you're describing where people don't have all the gaps filled in because that's not the approach. It's the approach is like, here's a solution, let's try to make the solution work rather than like, okay, this is what the client's looking for, which is exactly what you're talking about and saying, okay, well, how, how do we make it work? Now, the fee versus commissions, we could do a whole other podcast on that. I mean, my personal opinion is that it's long past time for the insurance industry to put commissions aside, but that's my own personal thing. I think that would make it a lot simpler. We've seen pretty much every other financial service product go in that direction, but there's a lot of reasons for why,
Julie:And each does actually have its place. And, you know, there, there are reasons pricing reasons and things that go into the factor of why commissions are important in the history, obviously of the industry, but there are some ways that we can you know, create some more seamless solution, certainly, but also, you know, the other thing that I believe that it's important is because there hasn't been a, as much trust within the industry among different kinds of advisors. It's hard to be able to go out into a network and find someone that you feel comfortable to be able to turn this very important client over to for, for you know, a different kind of product. And so that's the other part of client first is that there's in, in the various tiers that we're unveiling, this is the platform has just launched and we're building the community right now. There are some tiers in there that are going to lead to the ability to be able to create those more trusted relationships. And so the other part of this that comes into play actually goes to the advisor themselves. In our first tier where we have behavioral diet analytics that are powering the platform and DNA behavior is based in Atlanta, Georgia. And what we've been able to do with them is to be able to create, utilize their testing and, and, and results to be able to help an advisor better understand themselves and what they're best at because a client is also best served if you're not trying to be everything to them. If you do what you do best and then bring in trusted relationships to be able to do the parts that maybe you're not as good at one, again, the client is being served better, but you're also not incurring a lot of overhead in an area where maybe you don't have as much expertise. And so, again, you're creating a better environment for that maturing advisor that their practice is worth more. And again, you're putting that client first enables you to be able to do that.
Tony:That's great. I think that's definitely a groundbreaking approach to taking care of it. It's going to be exciting to see how that works because there's, in my mind, there's usually two reasons why sometimes the referrals don't work is sometimes advisors cannibalize their advisors business. And sometimes there's a mismatch on the personality of the advisor that somebody is referred to, they, they really, somebody really clicks with their primary advisor and then the advisor they're referred to has a very different approach.
Julie:Absolutely. And you know, it's interesting because the other thing that occurs out of that is that sometimes when you're looking at the dynamics of, of interpersonal communications, you may have a very good connection with that particular client, but perhaps they're married to a spouse that you don't connect quite as well. So sometimes you may want to bring in somebody with a different personality profile, because maybe they're going to be able to make a connection to the spouse. And everybody then has a higher level of trust of the entire relationship. Sometimes you want to bring in somebody, maybe, maybe this is a client that's been a little bit difficult for you to be able to communicate with bringing in someone else again, in a trusted relationship, you would have the ability then to be able to compare notes. And both of you would be able to serve that client a little bit better because maybe they do have a little bit better connection, but both parties respect each other's expertise. And like you say, don't cannibalize the relationship.
Tony:Yeah, well, that's smart. And you know, I'm familiar with DNA behavior and for listeners to the podcast is I am going to be posting a interview. I did with humanity, the founder of DNA behavior on the females, in finance meet the author show, which I'll put a link to in the show notes, because I, I would encourage everybody to go out and learn a little bit more about DNA behavior. See, can see how it really fits into what Julie is talking about and its importance. And that's, that's why I think it's so thrilling that you have that as part of the processes, because people really don't talk about that emotional side to the financial services world that, that it's, you know, people, if they're not feeling comfortable, then they're not can pick somebody whose advice they're not going to follow through. You know, the relationship won't work for either the client or the advisor that's important as well.
Julie:And also when that client has more trust, they're also willing to give their entire portfolio over to the financial advisor. When you're trying to manage money and create a good investment portfolio for a client, but you're only doing it with part of their assets, let's go back to putting the client first, are you truly able to create the best portfolio for them because they haven't been willing to tell you everything about all of the money that they have, and they may end up being over-weighted in one particular area or end up with some type of a gap or risk that they wouldn't have if they had been able to feel a little bit more comfortable with you to be able to give you their entire holdings, to be able to work with.
Tony:Well, that's great. Yeah. And I think that's something that advisors struggle with, and they're often, there are clients who just, I think by their nature, don't share all of their information early in the relationship, but oftentimes it's because clients don't feel comfortable with the advisor and they naturally hold back on some of their insurance policies or some of their investment portfolio, whatever type of advisor you are that runs across. And I would encourage clients who are listening or viewing this as a consumer, if you don't feel comfortable with an advisor, find another advisor that you feel comfortable with, because that way everybody will benefit from the relationship. For consumers, you have control over the relationship. Your advisor is here to help you
Julie:Exactly. And that's why enrolling the platform out, tier one is building the community. But the subscription also includes the cost of the DNA behavioral analysis on themselves. In tier two, they're going to be able to do that for their best clients. And so just for the price of admission, they're already learning something more about themselves and how to better communicate with those clients. And right there, literally that, that pays for the cost of admission right there.
Tony:Definitely. And it helps them figure out if they need a portfolio assistant or a partner, what kind of partner is going to benefit them and benefit their clients, because then you're taking care of the whole client rather than part of the client. So Julie, as we wrap up, what is your number one tip on being financially prepared?
Julie:You know, it's a really simple one, and I learned this a long, long time ago when I was in retail and working with clients in both insurance and, and assets. And it was interesting because I was so young in the business at the time. And I worked, I happened to have a knack for working with a little bit older clientele. So the secret to the success, I guess, but the the one I would constantly ask them, what would be the one thing that if you could go back in time and do differently, would you do? And the answer was absolutely universal. So this is what I want to share today. Every single one of them said live beneath your means, whatever your means is at a given time live beneath it, because you never know when that's going to change. And that advice has served my family. Well, that advice has served the people that I've been privileged to lead through the years on various teams. And I just think that it's good all around advice for, for all of us to be thinking about because things do change. And if we have that little bit of cushion, it certainly can make a big difference in our overall ability to, to live our best lives.
Tony:Well, that, that, that's great advice and I think that cushion gets to what we talk about as insurance for different parts of your lives. I mean, emergency savings is insurance in case you have a temporary loss of income, and of course the traditional types of insurance. So it's that holistic approach, but I love it live just a little bit beyond your means instead of live a little bit above your means as so many people tend to do. While it may be fun to get a new car, it's not always the best choice
Julie:Correct now. And you can live a very wonderful life, just recognize that, you know, don't, don't get into debt.
Tony:Yeah. That's, that's a great number one tip to don't get into debt. It's not good, no matter what you hear. So Julie, where can people learn more about you, about Evozen and Client First?
Julie:Absolutely. I'm on LinkedIn and they can go to the business page, which is Evozen LLC. They can go to my personal page because often I'll share some of those same articles and posts, and that's under my name, Julie Pinkerton. And then, also there's several articles that I've written for US News and World Report. There's talking about succession planning and, and diversity and, and all of these different topics that we're addressing within the platform. So you can just Google my name and US News and find several articles there. So any of those are great places to be able to go. Our website address is ClientFirst-Evozen.Com and Evozen is E like Edward, V like Victor, O, Z like Zen, and N like Nancy. So that's the evolution of zen. So ClientFirst-Evozen.com. So come follow us, sign up for the newsletter and certainly follow our LinkedIn page.
Tony:Fantastic. And for everybody who's watching or listening, I'll have show notes on my website that include links to Julie's website and to her LinkedIn profile so you can stay in touch, learn more about the Client First profile platform. Thanks, Julie, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.
Julie:I really appreciate it too. And it's been very fun to do this, so thank you.
Tony:Great. Well, it was great to learn more about the Client First platform, and that's something everybody should always think client first client first. I love it.
Julie:Thank you.
Tony:And to everyone, thanks for tuning into the Tony Steuer Podcast. Until next time.