On the latest episode of The Tony Steuer Podcast, I spoke with Bobby Clark, founder of Clark on Money Coaching Services about the importance of people reaching their own conclusions on money.
Bobby Clark is a financial coach and founder of Clark on Money Coaching Services. Coach Bobby draws on over a decade of experience as a Certified Professional Financial Educator. He is a member of the Association for Financial Counseling and Planning Education organization. Last year Bobby received the designation of Global Presence Ambassador for his contribution to financial literacy.
In this episode we discussed:
- Taking a "30,00-foot view" with challenges
- The importance of adapting to a client's language
- How to experience lifelong learning and growth
On the latest episode of The Tony Steuer Podcast, I spoke with Bobby Clark, founder of Clark on Money Coaching Services about the importance of people reaching their own conclusions on money.
Bobby Clark is a financial coach and founder of Clark on Money Coaching Services. Coach Bobby draws on over a decade of experience as a Certified Professional Financial Educator. He is a member of the Association for Financial Counseling and Planning Education organization. Last year Bobby received the designation of Global Presence Ambassador for his contribution to financial literacy.
In this episode we discussed:
- Taking a "30,00-foot view" with challenges
- The importance of adapting to a client's language
- How to experience lifelong learning and growth
You're listening to the Tony Steuer Podcast, where Tony interviews financial literacy advocates who are changing the conversation on money. So you can catch up on the latest trends and ideas in the world of financial literacy and education. Presented by Paperwork. Be prepared for life.
Tony:Welcome to the Tony Steuer podcast presented by Paperwork. I'm pleased to be joined today by Bobby Clark. Bobby is a financial coach and founder of Clark on Money Coaching Services. In this episode, we'll be discussing why it's important to take a 30,000-foot view with challenges and the importance of people reaching their own conclusions on money, along with how people can experience lifelong learning and growth with their money. Bobby, welcome to the Tony Steuer Podcast.
Bobby:Thank you, Tony, for having me
Tony:Bobby, it's a pleasure. Excited to have you on today and to learn more about you and your work that you're doing. So to get started, can you please share with us about yourself and how you got started in personal finance?
Bobby:That's a great question that I often ask myself, how did I get started in personal finance? But I guess it started back when, when I was a kid, my parents and my dad was a small business owner. He brought home the daily receipts every day. And, as I got of age, we would sit around at the kitchen table there and count quarters, nickels, and dimes and I would roll nickels and dimes and quarters and things like that for him. And my mom was a second grade teacher. So I had that attitude of, and she instilled in me that attitude of get your lesson, get your homework, get good grades, be a good student. So the combination of those two things kind of like set the foundation for me as terms of learning, being involved with money, learning how to manage your money, paying your bills on time, living out of what you make. So those are those concepts that they taught me and just stayed with me throughout my life and I just fell in love with personal finance. It became a passion of mine over the years and got to a point where I wanted to share that with other people. And so I started this financial coaching services.
Tony:Well, that's great. That's great. You know, we all have very different journey and for the kids out there is, yeah, you used to have enough coins that you used to have to roll them up and take them to the bank, but that's going back a ways.
Bobby:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, that was some fun things that we did as kid. And, you know, it was a learning experience really. I mean, you learn how to count or how to identify the different coins and, and things like that. So it was great lessons within that, those times.
Tony:That's great. And I think, you know, the key takeaway is for people who are listening to this, it's never too early to get your children involved with personal finance and financial literacy. You know, it's a small lesson, but it really stuck with you to this day. What was arguably a small task? It's something that's embedded in you and how you deal with money and how you think about money.
Bobby:Yeah. Even now a lot of parents would ask when do I start talking to my kid about money, or, you know, what should I say, how did I go about it? And really it's, it's no more than just having a conversation. I mean, kids are very smart at a very young age. You may not be able to count money and dollars and cents and things like that, or talk to them in that kind of framework, but they understand how things work in life. And they are they are excellent listeners. So a lot of times you're saying things around the house or talking to your spouse about finances, about money, they are listening. You may not realize it, but they are actually listening to what you're saying. And they remember those things. So you can start as early as you would like, talking about money or finances or values with kids.
Tony:Well, definitely, and, you know, money plays a central partner in everything. And having those conversations with kids help them understand about saving money, but also understand so they can understand the cost of maybe going on vacation. Maybe you don't tell them, you know, exactly how much it costs to go on vacation, but you know, the principal. And a principal of like, well, would you rather have this toy or would you rather go to a movie this weekend? That there's a trade- off with that. And little kids understand that. I think people sometimes, you know, as you say they underestimate the intelligence of children and their ability to understand these concepts, so I completely agree with you. It's, it's really never too early to teach your kids about that. Yeah, you don't want to teach them about maybe how to short a stock when they're seven years old, but with the basics, you can definitely do it.
Bobby:Yeah. The basics or just saving money. And, you know, you've got a lot of lessons out there, that piggy banks and different kinds of banks are saving, lessons and games that you can introduce to them at an early age that would be appropriate for them. So you just have to just decide at what point, it's up to the parent really,, at what point they want to introduce it, because there, there are games and tools out there that's age appropriate that that goes, that starts real early teaching lessons about values and about money and things like that.
Tony:Well, that's great. And it's also a good opportunity, you know, for the parents out there who may not feel comfortable with some of those concepts themselves is to do it along with your child, or just to brush up on your skills by doing the lessons with your child. It helps you, you always become more comfortable.
Bobby:Of course, of course it does. And if you can bring the whole family in and, and do those kinds of exercises or those games, it's just the foundation going forward for having financial literacy for the entire family. A lot of the things that we learned about financial literacy about money and our money experience starts within the home. It may be a situation where there's something going on in the home and the kids are there and they witnessed that or see that. Or maybe it's something that's been handed down from generations, money, philosophy or concept that we pick up at an early age and that impacts our life. It stays with us even until we are adults. And we began to use those lessons. And, as we get older, we use that to manage our money and our thoughts and behaviors.
Tony:A hundred percent, a hundred percent. So Bobby, I want to ask you about one of the things you talk about, and that's about taking that big picture view. Why is it important to take a 30,000-foot view with challenges?
Bobby:Well, the reason that you want to take a 30,000-foot view is when you're up close, it's like, if you're in the forest and you're lost and you really can't find your way, because everything looks just the similar or the same, no matter which way you look, but if you could just step back and see the entire forest, then you can find, or identify the direction or the way you should go to get out of the forest, or to find your way. Well it's the same thing with your personal finances, you have to sometimes step back and look at the entire picture. A lot of times when we are focused on just one little thing, we're so focused on that we might miss the other things that are important. So the entire picture, the entire framework of your finances, you just can't focus on just budgeting. Your finances are more than just budgeting. So you gotta look at the entirety, you look at saving, you look at your income, you're planning for the future. Maybe if you got kids, you have kids getting ready to go to school or whatever they're going to do, the activities that they're in in high school, and, you know, the extracurricular activities that they may be involved in. So all of these things make up your finances, including what you want to achieve yourself. So you have to look at the entire thing to get it to work for you the entire picture. So 30,000-foot view would give you that, that good, a wide scope for, to try to achieve.
Tony:That's great. Yeah, I think that's so important, Bobby, as you were saying that I was thinking of a map. That if you're looking at a map, it wouldn't do you much good if it only showed you the little spot you were in, but when you have the whole map spread out, you can see what your route is, right. Uh, cause you can see where everything is in perspective. So I think that's so important is for people to be able to zoom out and see, you know, like how a specific part of their financial life fits in with the rest of it. That it all goes together.
Bobby:Yeah, it all, it all goes together and it goes together beautifully when it works and, and in order to get it to work, you have to look at the, at the step back a little bit, sometimes you're too close to it and you can't figure it out. You've hit a wall because you're so focused on maybe one aspect of your life or, or personal finance. And the other parts of your life are not being given the attention that it deserves because you just don't see the entire picture.
Tony:Yeah. No. Makes perfect sense. You can't see the forest for the trees, right?
Bobby:Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yes.
Tony:So, one of the things you also talk about is a client's language. Why do you feel as a coach that it's important to adapt to a client's language?
Bobby:That's a great question. And for me and for the client, when you're talking about personal finance, one of the, the foundation blocks into personal finance is trust. When you talking with someone, a planner or coach or a therapist or your accountant or whatever, it's trust and speaking the same language helps to build that trust. It helps to reassure the client that you understand what they're saying, it's part listening. So when, when you're listening, it gives credibility to what the people are saying. It'll let them know that you are listening to them, that you hear them, that you understand what they are trying to get across to you. So use the same language, just to clarify, and to be able to have clear communications with your client.
Tony:That's great. You know, it helps with the communication, right. It's because you understand how to communicate with the client because you're speaking the same language.
Bobby:Yeah. Right, right. Because if, you know, a lot of times when clients come, they're a little bit hesitant. They may not know you as well, that maybe we've only had one or two conversations, but if you can start off speaking the same language and relating to them, it makes it a lot easier going forward. The trust factor is a lot easier to build and to strengthen. And it just makes for a better relationship between the, the coach or the planner or the therapist and the client.
Tony:Yeah. Definitely a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. I love your philosophy. One of the other things you talk about for the next question is something that I share with you is why do you feel it's important for people to come to their own conclusions?
Bobby:Well, that's, that's a great question. And, and my philosophy is just that helping clients come to their own conclusion through conversation, helping them to identify the blocks in their life and then figuring out with coaching, how to remove those blocks. And the key to that is when you can figure out your own problems or your own solutions, you are more motivated to carry it out than you are, if someone is telling you this is what you should do. Because a lot of times when you're working with, with the client, they may not always buy into what you say that they should do, but if they can come, if you can talk with them and come, and they can discover their own solution, they are far more motivated to carry out their own plan than they are to carry out someone else's plan. I use this example in my house that if I tell my kid, I say, if you would go to the closet and bring me up a broom, well what the kids are going to do is go to the closet. If the broom is not in there, they're going to say, well, it's not in there. They're going to come back. But if I say, can you help me find a broom? They are more apt to look in more than one location.
Tony:I like that. You know, I was just thinking about my son and the same thing, or you're going to get the, why do you need a broom?
Bobby:Yeah, yeah. Right, right. But so, and the same thing with the client. So if you could just tell them, this is what you should do, they may not wholeheartedly buy into that. But if it's their idea and they discovered their light bulb is on, even if they have some challenges about carrying it out, they're going to put more effort into carrying it out because it is their idea and their plan.
Tony:Well, you know, it makes me think what people talk about winning an argument is to can never really win an argument. And I think a financial coaching is the same way. Not that it, by any means, it's an argument, but it's that same thing is that people, until they fully buy into it as the solution, that's right. For them, you know, they're always going to have some hesitancy about that. And I think that's one of the reasons why people don't always execute on recommendations. I mean, would you say that ties into it?
Bobby:Yeah, of course it does. Yeah. It, it does. Yeah. It, it ties into it because it's people, people, I think don't really like to be told what to do, but if it's their idea or their plan, or even if it's, if it comes out of a conversation where the idea comes into their head or comes into their mind and, and it's appears to be a solution for them, even though it may be a weak solution there, they're going to carry it out. They're going to give it up. They don't give it a wholehearted try because it's something that they thought of, you know? And, and that's, that's, that's what helping them to discover their own problem. Cause I believe, I truly believe that most time we know what the solution is, it's, it's, it's inside of us. We just need help identifying it. We need help bringing it out. A lot of times we know what it is, but we don't want to do it, do it because of maybe a shame or guilt or some kind of emotion. This attack is tied to that process. But when we talk about it and we analyze it through conversation with a coach, a lot of times they will proceed on what's that.
Tony:Well, definitely. And I think that's something that's oftentimes missed in the world of financial literacy is that people know they need to save more money or if they're not saving enough, they know they need to have an emergency fund. They know all these things. The question is how do you help them get to that point of actually taking the action to do so. And you know, I love that you're talking about that. It's about their money story and it's about so many other things than just the raw action that they need to take. There's a lot of context to it and people are complex when it comes to taking action.
Bobby:Sure. And, and the, and the way I look at it tone is that there are two, two aspects with personal finance, you have the internal and the external aspect, the external aspect of finance, or the tangible things that you can touch and feel you have your, your spreadsheets, your books, your courses, your apps, your bank accounts, all of these things are what I call external tools that you use to help you with your personal finance or your money. And they are, they are very important to save your money and it's saved your time to help you track stay on track. You know, your calendar is, and all of these things that people have, but the other side of that is the internal aspect of money. And that is your, your beliefs, your habits and your emotions and how you respond to those things. And, and our world that we live in, a lot of it is the external stuff. Just get another book, read another book, another course, another app, there's a spreadsheet. You'd be fine. Well, you have to ask yourself with all of that external material and encouragement, why are people still struggling or wrestling with their personal finances? And it's because there are not enough attention or the internal part has not been properly addressed. And you have to have a balance between the two in order to achieve financial health. And so what I try to do is work with them on their, on the internal side as well so that they can be balanced. We talk about, like I said, the money story, what was it like in your household when you grew up as a kid? What did you hear? What did you learn? What were your money experiences that you can remember now? Those things are still with us. We take them with us throughout life and they manifest themselves when we become adults. And we, we use that data. That's been inside of us to make our money decisions, and it impacts how we live. And it also impacts how, what we tell our kids about money. And it's like, it's passed down. You know, we get it from our parents, or our relatives, someone that we look up to. Well, your parents probably got it from someone that they looked up to and then just keep, it just keeps going down, keeps handing down. And, and in order to break that cycle, if it's a trauma type cycle, if it's something that maybe you suffering from a money avoidance or one of those money behaviors, you have to ask yourself is it true? Is what I believe about money? Is it really true? Do I believe that my self worth is tied to my net worth? Or do I believe that if I have enough money, I will, I will be happy or money would make me happy. So all those things that people tell themselves, or maybe you're kicking yourself because you feel like well, I should be farther along financially than I am. And I'm ashamed of that because I'm not where I think I should be, I should know this stuff, or I'm not doing as well as I think I should be doing. And these kinds of things just sabotage your ability to achieve financial health.
Tony:A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, that's, it, it's not one thing. It's a sum of all those things and, you know, and it's identifying those things to be able to make the change in the behavior. So one of the other things you do is you help people throughout their life is how do you help people experience lifelong learning and growth.
Bobby:Two of the keys to lifelong learning and growth, one of the keys is accountability. The other one is when we come in to my practice, we find out what's important to them. You know, we call it the why, what is, what is the reason that you are trying to achieve your financial goal? A lot of times people have never been asked that question, or they have never asked themselves that question. And if, and a lot of times that question, if they do have, they do give an answer, it's a superficial answer. It's not the real answer. It's the answer that they have programmed themselves to say, I want to be wealthy, or I want to, I want to buy a house. I want to, whatever. But the true answer to the why is a lot deeper than that. And so we worked with them to really find that why, that deep why. Maybe it's because of you wanna, you're tired of feeling insecure and you, and you want to provide for your family, but you may say, I just want to be, I want to have a house. I want to buy a house. Well, yeah, you want to buy a house, but what would the house do for you? That's part of the why that we help them to discover. And then when we discover that why, now we understand what they are trying to do. We look at it from a standpoint of what it's going to cause to get you there financially. And once we understand your why and what it's going to cost to get you there, find it financially. Then we look at where you are financially currently. Usually there's a gap between where you are and where you need to be financially to achieve your why and what we do, we work to close that gap. And that's the plan.
Tony:Well, I think that's so important is you've nailed it as most people haven't really thought about the why, because it's, it's a lot more complex, like you mentioned, than just being wealthy. That's really what people want is, like you said, is, is they want something from it. They want a feeling, they want a goal. Their goal is not to be wealthy. Their goal is to feel secure. And, you know, I think that makes such a difference. And that's why I love your philosophy. And the way you approach things is because you're taking a look at this from the holistic standpoint of really helping people achieve what they're really trying to do. Nobody wants to buy, let's say a life insurance policy. They want to buy what a life insurance policy does for them. Just to use that as an example. So Bobby, with that said is how do you feel we can improve financial literacy? We've talked a little bit about financial literacy for kids. How do you feel what can improve financial literacy for adults or just in general?
Bobby:I think one of the things that we can do, and probably the best thing that we can do, Tony, is to start the education process early. That's the best thing that we can do for, for the adults. Parents may get nervous or may feel uncomfortable when kids come home and start asking them, asking them money questions, but it makes the parents focus on what's going on in the child's life and in the household, and that starts with the kids. Educate the kids because at some point those kids are going to be adults. Yeah. And that's what I say, start it in the schools, start it in the communities, maybe the boys clubs or whatever, boys and girls clubs or the Scouts or whatever, all of these organizations, they should have a chapter or some kind of subject matter, dealing with financial literacy
Tony:A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, it should be woven into whatever we do. There's good ways to teach it. You know, I was thinking about the Girl Scouts and financial literacy selling cookies, but could you imagine
Bobby:Excellent lead into that! Excellent. I mean, the Cub Scout, my son, I was a boy, a Cub scout. My son was a boy scout. That book is thick, man. It's it's, you can put financial literacy in that, that Cub scout and boy scout book, it can be in there.
Tony:Have a badge for it, right.
Bobby:Right. Get a badge. Yeah, yeah. Do that. Yeah. So just, just be more focused, be more intentional about teaching the subject matter of the philosophies around that. And I think if we did that, over time we will all be better for that.
Tony:Well, definitely it's an essential life skill. And I think, you know, as you said, it's, it should be treated as an essential life skill, and not just regarded as something that we give a lot of lip service to, but something that's included in the fabric of whatever we do. So Bobby, as we wrap up, what is your number one tip on being financially prepared?
Bobby:The number one tip, which is a good question. The number one tip, I would say to be financially prepared is to be intentional, have a purpose. Have a purpose, know what's coming in, know what what's going out and know where it's going.
Tony:I like that.
Bobby:Well, if you can do that, you'd be way, you'd be far in advance, but your personal finances are goals that you want to achieve. You know, what's coming in, what's going out. Know where it's going.
Tony:Yeah. Pretty simple. Pretty simple to say, I don't know how easy it is for people to follow that. But I think if they follow that as a rule, there is a baseline that it is easy to follow because it's nice and clear. You, you, you give a lot of clarity with that tip, which is really nice. I, I think people appreciate clarity. You're not giving them any wiggle room on that.
Bobby:Yeah, well, no. The thing about clarity is that a lot of times people with they, they want clarity before they, before they get started, they want to be able to, they want to see way down the road, or they want to see the whole picture before they get started. But that's not how clarity works. Clarity comes after you get started.
Tony:That's true. That's a very good point. Although it does make me also think back to where we first started talking about that 30,000-foot view is that you have to keep that in mind and that having clarity on the different parts can help you with a 30,000-foot view that that all does intertwine, but it's keeping in mind, you know, what, what you say is, you know, to be intentional about it and to, you know, put a little thought into what you're doing and to understand and task yourself. Why people make very odd financial decisions. You know, I hate saying somebody made the wrong financial decision. It's just maybe they could've made a better financial choice.
Bobby:Well, a lot of times, you know, that's this thing within the financial stuff, psychology theater about rational and irrational decisions. And people, we tend to think that we are rational people, but actually we're really not. We don't always do what we think we should be doing. So it's, it's, it's a lot of irrational and decision-making within our lifetimes when it comes to anything and what money is also, it's included in that, but we don't always make what's called irrational decision where it's, it's the thing that makes the most sense.
Tony:I agree with that a hundred percent. So Bobby, how can people get in touch with you? Where can they learn more about you and your work?
Bobby:Yeah. Okay. You can, they can find me on LinkedIn. My business name is Clark on Money. My website is Clarkonmoney.com. I am on Instagram: Clark on money. I have a youth Instagram TV channel where I go on Mondays and share financial tips so they can go there and hear some of the tips, listen to some of the tips that I've made for them to enjoy. And Facebook, I have a Facebook page also,
Tony:Fantastic. And I'll be posting for all our viewers and listeners, I'll be posting those links in the show notes. So you can feel free to reach out to Bobby, check out his website, he's putting some great stuff out there. Bobby, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate your time.
Bobby:Thanks for having me, Tony. I really appreciate it. And as always I'm, I've ennoyed talking with you.
Tony:Yeah, you as well, Bobby. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. It's been a pleasure. And to everybody watching and listening, thank you for tuning in to the Tony Steuer Podcast. Until next time.