On the latest episode of The Tony Steuer Podcast, I spoke with Robin Taub, author of The Wisest Investment about why teaching your kids about money is the wisest investment.
Robin Taub is a professional speaker and author of The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent, and Money-Smart for Life. Robin is passionate about improving opportunities for women CPAs to advance into positions of leadership. From 2008 until 2017, she was a member, and then Chair, of the Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada’s Women’s Leadership Council.
In this episode we discussed:
- Her book ”The Wisest Investment”
- The five pillars of money
- How parents can be a good financial role model
On the latest episode of The Tony Steuer Podcast, I spoke with Robin Taub, author of The Wisest Investment about why teaching your kids about money is the wisest investment.
Robin Taub is a professional speaker and author of The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent, and Money-Smart for Life. Robin is passionate about improving opportunities for women CPAs to advance into positions of leadership. From 2008 until 2017, she was a member, and then Chair, of the Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada’s Women’s Leadership Council.
In this episode we discussed:
- Her book ”The Wisest Investment”
- The five pillars of money
- How parents can be a good financial role model
You're listening to the Tony Stewart podcast, where Tony interviews, financial literacy advocates who are changing the conversation on money. So you can catch up on the latest trends and ideas in the world of financial literacy and education presented by paperwork. Be prepared for
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Tony Stewart podcast presented by paperwork. I'm pleased to be joined today by Robin to Robin is an author speaker and founder of Robin Tobe consulting. In this episode, we'll be discussing the value of teaching our kids about money at Robin's book, the wisest investment, teaching your kids to be responsible, independent, and money smart for life. Robin, welcome to the Tony Stewart podcast.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me,
Speaker 2:Tony. Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us. So, you know, as we get started, I always like to ask all my guests is, is what is your origin story? How did you get started in financial?
Speaker 3:So I'm a CPA, a Canadian CPA by training, but I like to say that I am not your typical accountant. I did start off my career working, um, at KPMG and then I worked at Earnston young, but I, uh, I, I quickly left public practice. I actually left and went to work client that was doing real estate syndication. And after I did that, I went and worked at Citibank, um, on the trading floor doing derivatives marketing. So I've had a varied career in accounting and finance, but for the last, um, 20 plus years, I've been focused on financial literacy and it, it, um, um, it really brought together all of the, uh, my, my financial background, my education, my interests. And, um, after the 2008 financial crisis, there really was, uh, a lot of attention being paid to being financial literate. And in Canada, there was even a task force and mass task force, and they felt it was so critical to Canadian economic growth and prosperity. So I really started focusing on creating content to help Canadians make better financial decisions. And then the book was really, um, something that I felt very strongly about because I have two kids myself, and I know that this is a weighty responsibility for most parents to raise their kids, to be financially capable, financially literate, responsible and independent. So, um, yeah, that's really where the, the motivation for this work comes from
Speaker 2:Well, that's great. And, you know, you mentioned kids and at some to teach our kids and, you know, uh, something you mentioned in your background about derivatives and, you know, that's probably one of the most complex financial instruments. Uh, did you find that, you know, in working with derivatives that, you know, that it took some work to explain it to other people,
Speaker 3:Oh, to even learn it myself? Cuz I came from being like a chief financial officer of a real estate syndication company. I dove into this whole new world of derivatives and I actually went back to university and took a course in options. Um, I had to learn a lot of it on the job and yes, when I told people what I did, most people are afraid of the word it does. It does, um, connote a lot of complexity. It was often responsible for these outsized financial losses. So I mean the, probably the easiest example to give people is a stock option. If you say that's an example of a derivative, then they understand what you're talking about. But yeah, it's definitely a complex topic that I don't often get into too much in the work that I do now. Um, you know, it's, it's not covered in my book or anything, but there are a lot of older kids that are very interested in option trading and um, other derivatives like forwards and futures. And so it is an interesting area, an interesting part of my background that I'm always excited to talk about cuz it was very cool to work on a trading tour<laugh>
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah. Well pretty hectic. You<laugh>. Yeah, I can imagine. Um, so you know, the reason, you know, that I, I thought is so interesting is that even though, you know, as you point out is somebody who was trained in finance you're already, uh, CPA is that it was still a complex area mm-hmm<affirmative> of the financial world. And I think that's important for people to remember that even for those of us who are educated about finances, there are, there are areas that are always gonna be a little more complex. And you know, as you point out is you had to go back to school mm-hmm<affirmative> to learn about it. And I think that's an important lesson for people is to, Hey, you know, you're gonna have to learn if there's something
Speaker 3:I agree with that it's I feel like personal finance and investing is a lifelong commitment. I still take courses. I still listen to lots of podcasts. I still try to gather a lot of information so that I can make informed decisions about my finances and my investments. And I really encourage other people to do the same. It's not something that you can learn once and that, and then forget about it. I don't think many things are, I mean, even like a language, you kind of have to use it or lose it. It's similar. Um, but I feel fortunate that I do have this amazing education and grounding in the world of, of accounting and finance because it, for me, it took away the intimidation factor. Mm-hmm<affirmative> I just felt like confident and capable of understanding these things. And it was just second nature to, to me it was like, it was like another language cuz I've just been immersed in it since very early.
Speaker 2:Well that that's great. And I think those are such important points. You know, that capability, that confidence is so often people are lacking that when they approach their financial lives, is that, you know, that allowed you to go into an area that, you know, it is one of the most complex areas in finances. Uh,
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I can relate to how people can feel overwhelmed or intimidated or just out of their depth because it's sort of the way I feel when I have to take care of like a, like a little construction project at my house or something like, I'm not, I don't have that, those skills or that background. And when the builder starts talking about all these different technical terms and I just feel like, oh my God, how am I gonna make a decision about this? I don't really know what he's talking about. I'm embarrassed to ask. Um, should I know this? And I, you know, I usually call in someone like my husband or my brother who are way better at this kind of thing. So I do like, and then I always say to myself, that's how people feel when it comes to their personal finances or making investment decisions or choosing financial products. So I can relate, I just happen to be stronger in this area and you know, I'm human and weaker in other areas.
Speaker 2:Well, that, that, that's great. And I think you, you know, again, you're bringing up some really great points, but I think, you know, one key word you said is ashamed. Yeah. Is, you know, that, that I think people are often ashamed to say they don't know something. You don't wanna be the person who says, Hey, I, I don't understand what a premium is or I don't understand what a deduction is because you know, there's a presumption that people know, you know, like, Hey, do you have all your receipts? So you can take a deduction and somebody's like, you know, they're not gonna say, well, I don't know what a deduction is, you
Speaker 3:Know, I know. And you know, I encourage like what's my own kids. I've always encouraged them to ask questions because, um, that's just the best way to learn. And it is part of my philosophy of looking for these teachable moments. So, you know, you, especially as a parent, when you're trying to educate your kids, you never wanna make them feel ashamed or silly or stupid. It's just like in class, like there's no stupid questions, most are thoughtful and are coming from a place of confusion or wanting to understand more. But there was actually interesting recent study in Canada that showed that, um, 45% of people said they don't like talking about money because they feel ashamed. Um, either thinking they should know more or they should be doing better at this stage of their lives. So, so yeah, I really encourage people to, to try and get over that and, um, you know, not be afraid to ask and not be afraid to talk about money with, with their kids and to learn more themselves if they need to, because it is a vast topic, personal and investing and it is complex and it's only gotten more. So over the years, there's so much innovation. It is hard to keep up mm-hmm<affirmative> and sometimes it's easier just to kind of give up than to make a start, but it can be done. And I think, you know, I try to encourage parents to, you know, work on their own financial house to get their own financial house in order first so that they can lead by example for their kids. Um, but I do feel like it is a lifelong journey and hopefully it's something that you begin to enjoy and embrace
Speaker 2:Well. That's great. And, and I think that once you start, you know, going back to what you said earlier is that once you start feeling capable and confident is that's, that'll help you continue on your journey. And, uh, it is a journey. So let's talk a little bit about your book. You know, the title of your book is sure the wisest investment teaching your kids to be responsible, independent and smart for life is so why is teaching your kids about money, the wisest investment.
Speaker 3:So I think if you ask most people what the wisest investment, they would probably say it's their house or their retirement fund, or maybe their emergency fund coming out of, you know, coming out of COVID or being in COVID still. But I argue the, that it's really the investment that you make in teaching your kids and preparing them so that they can be responsible and independent and good with money for the rest of their lives. And I think the reasons are that there's, there are such significant consequences if we don't teach our kids. And there are some really, um, valuable benefits if we do so on the consequences side, if we don't teach our kids about money, they're gonna be lacking a basic life skill mm-hmm<affirmative> financial literacy is a basic life skill, and that could lead to expensive mistakes or financial struggles down the road. It can also lead to stress you, uh, there's studies that show that, um, nearly half of Canadians have lost sleep over money worries. Losing sleep is one thing, but having, you know, suffering physical, physical ailments, like high blood pressure or heart diseases, a result of money, stress, or, or mental health issues like depression and anxiety, most of us want better for our it's mm-hmm<affirmative>. And the other thing too is if we don't teach them, they can start to form bad habits that become difficult to break as you get older. So those are some of the like negative things. And also as parents, we don't wanna be many of us can't afford to support our adult children financially. So it could come back to haunt us too. But if you look at it from the positive side, if we are successful in teaching our kids, and I believe that we, we all can be, then, you know, your kids are financially literate, meaning they have the knowledge, skills, and confidence to make appropriate decisions at every life stage. Uh, they will be independent financially, independent, hopefully off the payroll and responsible meaning they're capable of making good decisions and they'll have good judgment. And it's just one less thing that you have to worry about as a parent, because we do worry about our kids. And even as they get older, it's still hard to let go. So I think there's just so much at stake.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I, I would completely agree, you know, because it's, you know, it's your opportunity to teach'em as you say, a, a valuable life skill. And so many kids, you know, enter their adult lives and they don't have have that life skill. They don't know how to save money. They don't understand about college loans. They end up with these burdensome college loans. Mm-hmm<affirmative> they burn through credit cards. I know I went through that when I was in college, got my first credit card, like, Hey, this is great. And then it's
Speaker 3:Free. I can just like use this thing and never have to pay, pay for these purchases. Yeah. There's a lot of naivete around credit cards at that stage, at that college stage. And unfortunately it's coupled with lots of offers. Mm-hmm<affirmative> you can't get away from these offers yet many take them. No, not really knowing the mechanics of how they work or what they're getting into.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, and as you mentioned, yeah, you're 18. It's like, Hey, free, you know, we can all go out, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. And you feel so sophisticated and grown up, you're like putting down your credit card, but you might not realize that, you know, in a few weeks though, that balance will be due. And if you don't pay in full, you know, you're gonna start to be charged interest and then it could start to snowball.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. I went, I went through that, but that's a whole nother subject for a different podcast.<laugh> so, you know, to, to get back to, you know, what we're talking about kids is, you know, how do you capitalize unteachable moments to help kids create that positive money story and positive money habits so they can be successful later on?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So one of my strategies for parents who feel like, how am I gonna start? Where am I gonna start is to just look for these teachable moments. And that's an opportunity to build a money lesson into your day to day lives because we're constantly transacting. Money is ubiquitous. You can't really live without it. And if you get, if you get creative and you listen to your kids, there's gonna be these little opportunities that crop up all the time where they're asking you about something, um, like, oh mom, like how, you know, what's the difference between a debit and a credit card? Or how are you using your phone to pay for something. So just, you know, taking the time to explain how those things work. But as you say, it is important to try to cultivate a positive story around money and being good with money. And, um, again, it goes to the confidence piece. You wanna encourage your kids to learn this and empower the them when it comes to money and not to, um, tell a negative story that, you know, money's bad or, you know, it's the root of all evil to quote cliche or that it's impossible to get a handle on it. Like you wanna try and encourage them to form good habits early and to, you know, to start at a level that is appropriate for where they're at. And that's like another core thing in the book is to make sure the information that you share is age appropriate so that it's meaningful and your kids can take it in and they can relate to it because it's at a stage, uh, of their lives where they're, you know, currently faced with specific decisions or choices around money.
Speaker 2:Okay. So of course I said, you know, my mind went to explaining options to a kindergartner.<laugh> never.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no,
Speaker 2:No, but I, I, I think that's an important point is the age appropriate. No. Of what you're trying to teach your child. Um, but you know, one of the things I'm, I'm sure you, you know, you're a parent, obviously mm-hmm<affirmative> is that, you know, kids do are able to learn more than sometimes. We think they can. Is that their level of comprehension? I, I mean, have you found that with your G parents to really test their kids with that?
Speaker 3:I find that they're really sophisticated and I don't know if it's because they're digital natives and they've grown up with so much information, but I do find that, um, you know, let's say kids in middle school and, and high school and above are really quite sophisticated now to your point. Yeah. With, with young kids, you don't wanna start with derivatives. You're definitely gonna start with cash bills and coins even. Um, even though we're using cash a lot, a lot less than we used to. I still think with young kids, because it's so tactile and concrete, uh, it's not conceptual the way debit or tapping and those things are, are so, and I like to show this multi slotted piggy bank that I think is such a great tool for young kids. Cause okay. Instead of one slot, there's four for save, spend, donate and invest. So just starting off at, you know, really kind of basic level that you earn money, even a little kid can for like a day or a holiday or the tooth fairies visit. And then you have to make choices and money's finite. So once it's in, once you choose to do one thing with it, often, you know, that's a decision you have to live with. So as they get older, obviously you can introduce more sophisticated concepts. And I'm sure there are lots of kids in high school or university who are curious about options or about derivatives. And you, you know, take cues from your kids. Um, you know, when they start asking about things and they obviously have an interest, um, and it could be something a little more sophisticated, but, um, often it will be more at a, you know, at a basic level for what they're encountering in their lives. So with teenagers, they're independent, they're spending, they're spending money more, they're going out and doing stuff. So having a budget and tracking their spending is probably a really important thing to, to discuss at that age. Um, you know, maybe once they're in university or they're working and they have money to invest and you can get into some of those concepts. So just keeping in mind, you know, your child's age, their maturity, their level of sophistication and interest, uh, you know, your kid's best. So you kind of know what will land with them and what will resonate.
Speaker 2:Well, I, I, I think that's an incredibly solid point in is that everybody is different and that, you know, just because one 14 year old may be able to absorb a certain lesson doesn't mean that every other 14 year old can or should be able to, and that you shouldn't have that expectation and make them going back, feel ashamed if they're not able to grasp the concept. And as you point out, it's so important is because when you're younger, you're teaching them the fundamentals mm-hmm<affirmative> and, you know, the spend save and, you know, with that tactile, and sometimes people jump right into the more complicated things. They start talking about compounded interest rate, some of these other things, and the people have never had that, um, education where they talk about spending and saving. And
Speaker 3:So that's a really crucial lesson for parents is that you wanna lay a foundation and build on it. And that's, that's really how the book is struck. So I have what I call the five pillars of money and just like the P bank they are earn, save, spend, share, and invest. So no matter what age you're at those five pillars, they don't change. It's the specific topics and examples within each of the five that will, will become more, a little more complicated, a little more sophisticated as your kids get older. So the, so the idea is if you can start early when the stakes are low and your kids can make mistakes and learn from them. Um, so that by the time they get to be older, they, and, and they can make an expensive mistake like credit card, they will have that foundational knowledge. So that's, you know, each, if there's a chapter in the book for, um, there are four different age groups that I focus on and one chapter and, and a chapter focuses on each of those. And again, always within those five pillars of money topics. So earn, save, spend, share a best. Uh, so it is, I ideal if you start when your kids are young, but if you haven't started, it's definitely not too late. You can just jump in at the stage that your child is at. So that, again, the information you're sharing is gonna resonate with them, and isn't gonna be either too simple below their level or too, too far above.
Speaker 2:That's great. That that's so important, you know, is to recognize, you know, that there is that transition. So mm-hmm,<affirmative>, you know, what that said is how do you feel that we can change the way people think about money? I mean, that's, it seems like that's what you're doing with your books is, you know, getting into that,
Speaker 3:I, I am trying to make parents aware that this is so important. I think they feel that responsibility, but it's easy to get overwhelmed. Um, there's study one study that showed that 78% of parents had tried to teach their kids, but two thirds didn't feel they'd been very successful and more than half didn't know what information they needed. So I think parents have good intentions. Um, but I really wanna, you know, hammer home or really emphasize why teaching your kids about money is the wisest investment, and then help put them at ease by giving them basically a financial roadmap and the tools to be able to do it. So if you're like, well, I don't even know where to start or what strategies to use while I have three strategies that I think every parent can, um, implement immediately. And those are to be a good financial role model for your kids. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and lead by example, to look for teachable moments, to build a money lesson into your day to day lives, and then to use your personal values, which are the things that are most important to you, and that you're willing to take a stand for and use those values to help guide and prioritize financial decisions. So those three strategies are, you know, what, you know, weigh in and how you can do it. And then when it comes to the, what, what do I talk about at every age and stage? Well, the book breaks that down under the five pillar. So it's like now you have the information that you need. So it's just a question of, um, looking for those opportunities to have those money talks with your kids.
Speaker 2:Well, that's great. And I'm really glad you bring up values is that's also something that's oftentimes missed is I think people sometimes are uncomfortable with the decisions they make and they don't follow through is because it's not really in line with their values and who they are and what they want to accomplish. So I think that is so important that you're, you know, talking about them, encouraging people to have that conversation about values with their kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like why does that disconnect happen? How do you find yourself kind of spending on autopilot without thinking about, well, is this important? Is this really important to me, is this helping me on my journey towards achieving certain and goals? Often life just gets busy and we sort of lose track of that, of that connection. But I do try to encourage parents to get clear about their own values and then encourage their, their kids to also discover what their values are and see where there's overlap. And in fact, there's, um, in my book, there's a Val a values validator, which is an as a self assessment to help you tease out what your top five values are. And if you go to my website, Rob to.com, you can get that for free. So if you're just curious if you've never done a values exercise, and you're not really sure what your family or your personal top five values are, it's worth doing. Cause then when you set goals that are tied to those values, those goals become so much more meaningful and compelling. And like you say, you, um, there's more alignment between, and what's important to you and how you're spending your money as opposed to that disconnect.
Speaker 2:Well, that's great. And for people who are tuning into the podcast is I'm definitely gonna add a link to Robin's website and directly to the value assessments so that you can easily find it. So you can try that out. Thank you. Yeah. So yeah, it's a great tool that I, I think everybody should go through just to see and, uh, to measure. So as we wrap up, you know, what is your number one tip on financial wellness?
Speaker 3:My number one tip for parents is to try to get your own financial house in order so that you can lead by example and be a good financial role model for your kids because they are, they're watching, you know, they've got their eyes on you, they're listening and they're learning from us. And the way we behave around money and to the extent that we can, it's best to set a good example, you know, as a parent in all areas, not just money, but with, you know, physical health, mental health work ethics, so many things generosity. So that's why I devoted the first chapter of the book to helping parents do that. And I came up with these 11 healthy habits of financial management things like living within your means, paying yourself first, setting up a financial safety net. And there's eight more that will help you get your husband in order and also model good behavior for your kids.
Speaker 2:Well, that's great. I, I think that's wonderful advice and a great tip for everybody. So, um, Robin, where can people learn more about you?
Speaker 3:Yes. And I mention the one website, which is Robin tobe.com and that's T B. And thank you for, including that in the show notes. Um, and that's where you'll find the values validator as well as like information about speaking and, and lots of other really helpful resources that we've curated. And then, um, the book, the wisest investment, there's a website for that, which is the wisest investment.com. And on there, you'll actually find another self assessment tool, which is what kind of financial role model are you so further to that whole conversation? If you're curious, what kind of an example am I setting for my kids? If you go to the wisest investment.com, you can get that there for free.
Speaker 2:Oh, fantastic. I think I might do that after we wrap up.<laugh> now I'm curious. Yeah. Good. So, so Robin, this has been an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Well, my pleasure. Thank you again for having me, Tony.
Speaker 2:It's been a pleasure. So, um, thank you everybody for tuning in to the Tony Stewart podcast. Uh, please remember to subscribe until next time.