How Families Can Have Better Money Conversations

Clear money conversations help families prepare before life happens.

On this episode of Get Ready Before Life Happens, Tony talks with Jacqui Clarke, author of Stop Worrying About Money, about how better money conversations help families navigate caregiving, loss, divorce, and rising financial pressure. 

They explore why money is often left unspoken, how that creates risk, and what families can do to build clarity, reduce anxiety, and prepare for what’s ahead.

Key takeaways

🔹 Having conversations with your spouse and family is essential for aging planning and legacy planning. 

🔹 Knowing where assets are and what things cost is essential during life transitions.

🔹 Financial responsibility often defaults to one partner, which creates vulnerability for the other partner.

🔹 Many women face financial gaps due to caregiving, career pauses, and unequal roles.

🔹 Estate plans need context and communication, not just documents.

🔹 “Planet Squeeze” is real as families balance aging parents, kids, and rising costs.

🔹 Being optimistic about money can be really empowering.

🔹 Advisors have a responsibility to meet with both spouses. 

Tony’s Take

When families share information, understand their finances, and align on decisions, they create clarity before life gets complicated. The goal is making sure no one is left trying to figure everything out alone.

Connect with Jacqui Clarke:

• Website: jacquiclarke.me
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacquiclarke/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jacquiclarke000/

Substack Newsletter: 

• Your Personal CFO: https://jacquiclarke.substack.com

Books:

• Stop Worrying about Money: The Award-Winning book about how you can start planning now to secure your financial future (Amazon US)(Amazon AU) (Barnes and Noble)
• Free sample chapter: https://www.jacquiclarke.me/book

Bio: 

Jacqui Clarke FCA, FTI, GAICD, JP, author of Stop Worrying About Money, is a trusted advisor, board member, executor and veteran business executive. As a personal wealth and money management expert and over three decades of experience, 25 years at Deloitte and PWC helping high-net-worth families, individuals and business owners to build, manage and preserve their wealth. Her message is simple: with careful planning and effort, you can manage your money, so it doesn’t manage you. https://www.jacquiclarke.me/

The Money Awareness and Inclusion Awards (the MAIAs) celebrate the increasingly important work being done to help people understand money better. Learn more: https://www.maiawards.org.  

 ☕ Support the Get Ready Movement.

If these conversations help you think differently about money or prepare for life’s what-ifs, your support helps expand financial readiness education and keep this work accessible.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Get ready before life happens, the podcast helping you navigate life's blood air. Many families and especially women are feeling squeezed from every direction. Caregiving, work, rising costs, and money conversations that never happen. Welcome to Get Ready Before Life Happens. I'm pleased to be joined today by Jackie Clark. Jackie, welcome to Get Ready Before Life Happens.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Well, hi Tony. It's great to be here with you. I'm enjoying the opportunity to collaborate with you today.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. You're doing some cool work. So tell us a little bit about yourself. What is your origin story and how did it lead you to focus on communication?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Ah, look, that's a great question. It's a pretty loaded one, too, actually. Look, when I think of my life, I began, you know, like anybody does. I was around the kitchen table at home with a family business where I realized very early on that communication around things like money was kind of important. And throughout my career, interestingly, I started to realize that things like just getting good results wasn't as important as being able to communicate clearly with people. I think that's probably an area that I've uh enjoyed so much in my career, actually. But if you if you think about that journey working with um, I've spent my career basically working with wealthy families and senior executives. One of the things that struck me was how often people don't open up and share their money stories with you. And um I think we can all learn so much, you know. My life, I'm a mum in a blended family of five kids. Um, I've been married for the second time now for almost 20 years. Um, so I've been through a horrific divorce. Um, I recently lost both my parents um relatively close together, completely unexpected. So like quite significant life changes that I think can also have an impact on you and bring this whole communication piece right to the forefront. You know, it's a lot of what gets unsaid can be the most difficult or damaging things in families and in family relationships. So I think for me, there's been a thread right through life around open communication, and where I see that most effectively used is in conversations about money and finances. And where I've seen it very poorly done is with money and finances. So when people just simply don't want to talk about it. Yeah, that's a whistle stop roundabout way of talking about why I think communication with money is so critical, actually.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah, I I completely agree. And to go back to what you said is not communicating and opening up really can have some harmful effects. And I think that's oftentimes, especially in legacy planning, that's a that's a huge thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

You're absolutely right, because there's a lot of barriers, I think, that people put up. And often that comes from again, I'll talk about your money story, like where you started out, and perhaps the types of conversations that you did or didn't have. You know, when I was growing up, it was rude to talk about money or what people earned. And I don't think that that shifted so much, but perhaps what's more real today is with the increase in the cost of living, it's more difficult for the next generation to get into housing. Then you need to have a conversation about how, well, A, you might be able to help them. But I think if I had the knowledge I have today, it would have been a little bit different for me in my 20s when it came to buying a house and things like that. So, you know, you'd like to be able to share that information if you can with it with the other generations. But I do also see in families, and certainly where there's a lot of wealth, where there's a lot of secrets about money, um, and it's you know, it's kind of a closed book. Uh, and the worst thing about that is that usually people find out all the answers when somebody dies, and usually not the easiest way.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, and without the context, I I think that's the other thing, and that's that's a project that I'm working on now is to help people provide that context when they're creating, you know, what I'm calling a financial readiness plan because the documents are great. But I know in you know, uh trying to prepare my final stuff for my family is like, okay, the the will and trust say what is going to happen, but they don't say why. And I think the why is so important.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yes, and I think uh we have a lot of wills contested. I think you in the US and in Australia, it's similar now. So um other generations coming through are more readily able to contest wills now. Um, and if you're not really clear on your wishes, then it is open to interpretation and people can, you know, if there's an old loan that's not documented in a family, let all these things come up to the surface and can cause or wreak havoc and actually freeze assets, which is the worst thing that can happen. You know, having just been through um both my parents passing and I was their executor, so I was very close to their financial affairs, which is not normal, obviously, for most people. But I that was quite complicated and I have a great relationship with my sister, so we were able to navigate things quite easily, but it's still complicated, you know, getting into somebody else's affairs, but also, you know, now I still wish that my parents are alive and say, why did you do that? You know, those questions about why did something exist the way it did, um, there's often not a paper trial that explains it. So the more conversations I think you can have in that regard, the better. But perhaps the only mistake people make, Tony, is they also think that they're invincible. And we don't start talking about things like it. I know we've sort of gone straight to the end. Um people don't start talking about estate or will planning until they're in their 80s or somebody gets sick. And the reality is people die all the time. And and I find a lot of people aren't or don't have plans in place, appropriate plans for their estate, um, which they you know need to get on to now.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yeah, and that's the the worst thing that that I've encountered. Well, one, I'm sorry to hear about your parents, of course. That's always very hard. But you know, the the people don't plan. And you know widows, I think the average age of widows in the US is around 50, somewhere around there. It was a lot younger than I expected it to be. And so when you think about that, is uh, you know, that that's that's huge. And you know, it's a lot of people think, well, I'll do my, like you said, I'll do my estate planning later, or they don't update it when they have their kids, or they don't update it uh, you know, when their kids reach age 18 or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Well, and you know, people avoid it because there are hard decisions that you need to make when you're doing estate planning. But I think what we know as practitioners is that the absence of a will makes things much worse. So if there are things in your will that are difficult to decide on, make a call. Ask somebody, ask somebody professionally to help you make a decision so that you get the document done rather than not having one at all. And and you know, you just touched on something talking about the average age of widows in the US. And um, I spend a lot of time, not unlike you, on my financial literacy, you know, footstool because I continually meet with widows and people approaching divorce. I'm just about to write on Substack about the grey divorce, which is a phenomenon that's increasing quite substantially in around the world, actually. And I think that's largely a function of levels of financial independence increasing, but not necessarily financial literacy. And so people come to me when either somebody's died or they're thinking of separating, and they really don't know where assets are held, who owns what, what the incomes are, what the costs are, even that's even the scarier part is people aren't actually aware of what their outgoings are from their house. So you sort of get ground zero in those situations. Nothing worse than if somebody dies, like a spouse, and you don't know where to start. Because I think that the difficult part is when you're grieving, you're not necessarily thinking clearly. And if you're under pressure to make decisions, some financial ones, like for example, funding a funeral, um, and you don't even know where to access cash from. That that's just the start of how complex it can be. And again, if you're navigating those conversations with siblings or other parents, whoever it might be, it's um it's a lot to take on.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Definitely, definitely. Well, and you and you bring me to one of the things that we were going to talk about um is about the importance for wives or the non-money partner to really have you know knowledge of money. Why do you think it's so important? Why do you recommend that?

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Oh, look, probably through experience, Tony, I've seen fortunately or unfortunately, and it might also be because I'm a female advisor in the space that people come to me probably feeling like that um they'll get some empathy too that I feel for them when they come to me saying, uh, this has happened, I need your help, but I basically don't know where to start. And look, I think what happened, there's there's some really obvious things that impact why, particularly women, but not always women, are a bit in the cold on finances. And I think quite simply, as um you get older, you might get married, you might have children, you might step out of the workforce briefly for a while, having children, all these things cause so much mental load that invariably in relationships somebody takes on the financial management, somebody takes on other duties. And it seems for some reason, if the person that's typically at work, which is has been historically the male, um, and the woman who is typically at home raising the children, tends to the breadwinner, old-fashioned term, tends to be responsible for the money stuff. And so the um spouse or partner at home is the one who's taking care of the home and not necessarily all the finances. And what happens is over time, and this is where this financial literacy gap begins, is when they step out of the workforce from their full-time jobs to have children, they start their financial literacy. It's like the connectedness to anything financial beyond the groceries and other administrative costs at home. They're the things that you might know. I mean, I work with a lot of um older men who don't know the price of bread or milk. That's a different conversation. But that's not the financial literacy we're talking about. Um, but actually slowly letting go of paying the bills, um, knowing where the credit card information is, knowing simple things like who owns the assets, what structures you've got, and it sometimes I guess it becomes a lot of noise as well, and people let that go. So I'm on that other side of the receiving end where people are going through something, some type of challenge or misadventure that happens in life, and they come to me, and we have to start right from the beginning to work things out to create a paper trail of where assets or investments are, understanding what their cost of living is so they know what their future costs might be and what they need. And again, I'm saying in the context of someone's the partner's dying or somebody's become very sick, um, or are they going through a separation? Yeah, but I do think it's the mental load and how much can you take on? And it seems like the financial stuff is the thing that gets dropped or passed on.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

And um, you know, I I you know, my my belief on that is just because people don't want to talk about and deal with money anyway. So it's much easier to let go of the things that no you don't want to talk about or deal with that anyway. So, how can women and couples start to make that shift where money becomes something they actually want to talk about?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah. Well, look, I have often get people come to me and say, look, my partner's not interested. How do I get them interested? And and I say, Well, don't they they want to do a renovation on the house, don't they? Or they'd like to move homes or change suburbs or they'd like to go on a holiday. And I think a nice way of engaging people first is looking at financial goal setting. Don't call it financial goal setting, call it life goal setting. That's something that might appeal to people, but trying to identify as a couple what are the goals that you might like to set. And I find that's a nice way of engaging because you look out, like call it your all-star, it might be renovating a home, it might be buying a bigger home, uh, depending on the stage of life that you're at. And then the opportunity lies in well, what are the steps it takes to get there? Now, naturally, underpinning that will be financial steps, and it might be how you structure your work, it might be, you know, I focus a lot, and certainly in my book, Stop Worrying About Money, uh, my first sort of third of the book is focused on things like recognising your open-the-front door costs. So I talk about encouraging people to actually understand what it costs to run their home. A lot of people don't know that and don't review it regularly, and I am a firm believer that makes a huge difference because until you're aware of those outgoings, it's also hard to recognise what you might be able to save. And that takes you then to those um financial goals that you've set to recognizing what money can be set aside weekly or monthly to contribute to those goals. And I think that's a nice way of engaging both partners. It's a bit like um, you know, you decide as a family that you want to get a big new screen TV and it's $8,000 a number, and the money's not in the bank, you could use a credit card, that's one option, but how quickly can you pay that credit card off? And the next option is well, um, these are the things I'm going to do to get us to that new TV faster. Now we're not really good at waiting anymore, which is why the credit card is so easy to use, but there's an opportunity as a couple to make a decision about what's changing in the household outgoings to get you to buying that TV or whatever it might be sooner.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah, I I I love that is it, you know, there isn't really a difference between a life goal and a money goal, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

You know, is concealing it.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah, well, it's like uh, you know, maybe putting a little cheese sauce on your broccoli or something.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Well, actually, I always joke, you know, that dish, um, you know, chili con car, a global renowned dish. And we have um one son who's never been a veggie man. So you know what I do. I make the chili con car and I put everything I can find in the refrigerator, you know, right into the chili con car. And we still all have chili con car, we still have the cheese and the corn chips, but um, there's a lot of veggies jammed in that thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

So well, you know, you do what you got to do. And you know, if you don't want to talk about something, is you can address it from a different way. But you know, as you mentioned, if you think about, let's say, retirement, is it's a financial goal and it's a life goal. It's like, where do you want to live? Maybe temperature, environment, or you know, whatever. But it's also like, what are we going to be able to afford? And so it's like they they do go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah, and look, that's um a real hot button right now, probably for my age group, but seeing that transition to retirement conversation conversations start to evolve. And, you know, a lot of the conversations I'm having are like this. Essentially, based on that cost of living you've established, you won't be able to retire anytime in the next 30 years. What can we do about that? Or how do we adjust those financial goals? So your horizon to retirement, so when that might be, and what are the savings you require to get you there? So it's it's really interesting because people uh I think work, yeah, there's this treadmill effect of um environment that people work in and the income that they're used to having. So they right-size their lifestyles up to that um income level, and then there's you're trapped, there's not really a way out of that. And then somebody says, Oh, when are you going to retire? It's like, hang on a minute, I can't, you know, I can't do that. And the reality is, I think the way the job market works and business works is that you do tend to wind down in your 70s a little bit. Um, you know, gone are the days of 60 or 65 in retirement. Um, but even semi-retirement or part-time, whatever the shift is going to be, it does require quite significant cash flow planning. And again, like the financial goals or life goals. If the goal is, well, I don't want to be full-time working when I'm 75, okay, what are you going to change today to enable that? And I think it comes down largely to what are the outgoings of the lifestyle you've currently set up for yourself and what needs to shift in that regard. And until we in our relationship are prepared to have that conversation, we can't make any change.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

And the scary thing is you you get to retirement and it's help. Help.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Well, and I think one thing you did say, the one word I didn't hear you say was budget. And I think that's important to note is because, you know, we say some of these words, you know, like if you told your son you were putting a lot of vegetables in the chilli can carn, he would not be interested in it. But but you know, you know, he's still gonna eat it and not ask too many questions because it tastes good.

unknown 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

You know, it's what he, you know, and uh you know, and that's the thing when we we when we talk about money is if there's words that are a turnoff to us, like budgeting and all these other things where you know it causes anxiety, is just don't you know re- reframe the conversation as as you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah. And look, you've just touched on something that is important to me in acknowledging that I think money made me anxious. And that's why I wrote the book, Stop Worrying About Money. But you know, when I my parents would joke that I um had saved from the first dollar I earned until I got divorced. And I became quite anxious about money because I think when you go through a divorce, like in your I did in my late 30s, early 40s, that you um you know, the world, the the floor gets taken out from underneath you financially. You've built this nice amount of wealth up, and then for one reason or another, it can pretty quickly disappear going through a divorce with a couple of young children, and it made me really anxious. So I think the steps that were required to take to address feeling anxious about money was the planning, and it was the budgeting, and it was the cash flow management, and taking a good hard look at the lifestyle I had, what the lifestyle was I wanted to lead, and what steps I need to take to make that have a more enduring or longer lasting plan around it so that um it was manageable.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Definitely, yeah. I was just reflecting so much on what you were saying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

There's like all these triggers. Lots of triggers.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Well, and I think that's the big thing is a lot of people don't, you know, to get back to what we were talking about is talking about money. A lot of people don't talk about money just because they feel anxiety. You bring up money and all of a sudden they're like, oh my gosh, I'd rather talk about any almost anything else in the world than talk about money. So what what do you say to somebody saying, uh, you know, I mean, because that that is your book, but what what what's like that big tip from your book is like, I come to you, Jackie, I'm uh completely freak out every time I think about money. What would you say to me?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

I'd say that that's normal, but we can ease that anxiety by having more information and communicating. If you have a partner, communicating about money can be really empowering in a relationship, but also for that anxiety and recognising what steps you can take to preserve and protect your wealth in your lifetime, and and that can be everything from you know the types of insurances you have if you need them, um, recognizing what will happen to your family if something happens to you, what are the arrangements if you get sick. So actually digging into the detail a bit more is I think what eats away at the anxiety. And so for me, that information is power. Uh, like with communication, how important that can be. It just reduces the barriers for people around money. And look, I find that it does not serve people to put their head in the sand. You know, I talk about the three biggest money mistakes. Uh, one of those is wearing and driving your money. The second one is essentially putting your head in the sand, which a lot of people and particularly women do. And the third one is not knowing what your baseline costs are at to run your house. So they're the three I talk about often. And I find when people are able to address it, the anxiety just peels off. And actually, knowing what it costs open. Most people would say. I don't want to know what it costs. Like I'm scared. And the reality is that's fine. But when this shit storm happens down the track, when you die, your partner gets sick, these things, there's a lot of grief for people to deal with one way or the other. How can you reduce that as well? So it's it's sort of preparedness around the future and things going wrong because that things invariably do.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah, definitely. And that's why I changed the name of the show to get ready before life happens.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah, yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Is is that preparation. But you know, I love what you say about having more information is, you know, that's you know what I hope that people take away from the show is that they're encouraged to ask more questions. And the more curious you are, the more information you get. And then the more in control that you are because you do have that information, you have that level of comfort.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

And you just mentioned something there. One of the things I also come across is people, the reluctance also leads to having advisors that they don't necessarily have a strong connection or rapport with. So, say for example, your um college mate um was your accountant and you've got a great relationship with him, but then your partner didn't really like him, you know, back in the day and hasn't, but but knows that everything's under control. That's pretty common. I like to say to people, do you have an advisor that you have strong rapport with? Like who's in that personal finance village for you, not for your family, for you? Somebody that you can talk to, that you can trust, that you feel gives you support when you've got emotional things around money to talk about or think about, somebody who can guide you. And that that can be something that people miss. And often I see it, people come to me when things have gone wrong because they've had an advisor where things haven't worked out and they're in the dark and really unsure what to do next. And so it's about building relationships with advisors for themselves, not relying on someone else. Plus, I find um, and because I do a lot of work in the tax space as well, is that some tax advisors don't have deep technical skills in a particular area, there's no point in sticking it with them and hopefully you know, muddying your way through it. Actually, find somebody who's an expert in that area that can actually give you advice. But if you're sticking with you know Tony's accountant because Tony's known him for 30 years or whatever, that might not be serving you very well. So, you know, finding people that can support you with your needs is really important and not relying on the family accountant, the family advisor, you know, do they if they feel right for you, great. But if they don't, you know, get that person in your team.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah, I think that is such an important point. And we can see that in the stats, at least in the United States, is 80 to 90 percent of widows will leave their current financial planner. And of course, divorce and numbers are about the same. And it's exactly what you talk about.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah. I just see, I think I just see it on the other side, which is that again, reluctance to change, but realizing that something's not working. Um, but that fear of not having the information, maybe not feeling comfortable asking the certain types of questions as well. You've got to find somebody that you have great rapport, you know, that you can text or call and get an answer that you feel's got your back, you need that person. And if you don't have them, go find them.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Definitely, definitely. And for advisors, again, this is you've heard this uh on the show a lot. Be sure to talk to both spouses. When you have those spouses in there, have a conversation and a connection with both.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yes. I'll tell you a funny story. Uh, not that long ago, probably three months ago, I was uh contacted by a journalist who was writing an article for the Institute of the Australian and New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants, and it was about um what can advisors do in respect of spouses? Like what would what's their role? And I said, well, one of the things I have seen throughout my career, having predominantly male clients, is that the men come to the meeting and don't bring their spouses. And I'm saying now, like I think as an advisor, you have a responsibility to make sure that the spouse is there, or what do you need to do to meet with the spouse as well? Because it sort of goes down the buttons. You might meet them once, and then the typically the husband continues to maintain that relationship and deal with all the financial stuff. But my shout out to advisors is with your client, the one that you've got the strong relationship with, ask them about the partner and can we have the partner come to the meetings, or can I go and meet with the partner separately just to make sure that they're up to date with whether it's the investment portfolio, the choice, why we're choosing certain things. Um, but just trying to build that bridge between the spouse. I mean, there's not I mean it's fair, it's you can't be the same things to all people. So it makes sense that the spouse might need somebody else, but you could also offer someone in your organization a peer if you're not the right person. But the first step is let's get them in the room.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

And I think that's and they're both your client. Yes. Sorry, a little bit of a delay there. It's and they're both your clients. You know, the the the wife in this case is is also a client, and you should know your client. Uh so it's a pretty basic rule. So before we start to wrap up, I want to make sure we talk about um the planet squeeze, is why are so many families, especially women, feeling squeezed right now?

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah, yeah. Oh, thanks for asking, Tony. I kind of named this planet squeeze um recently after experiencing so many family and friends going through the experience where their parents were aging. And there's um there's a couple of really obvious statistics that make all this make sense, but it's not until you get all the information you go, ah, now I get it. But you know, with aging parents and a lot of neurodegenerative diseases around now, like dementia and Alzheimer's, and also younger kids staying at home because of cost of living and other pressures. We've got people getting married about seven to nine years later than they did in the 70s, people having babies about six to seven years later than they did in the 70s, and people living about 10 to 13 years longer than they did in the 70s. So you've got this massive spread. And what we're finding is people in their 50s like me are in this what I call planet squeeze, which is typically where the aging parents are needing help and support, and they're still around, and the kids haven't left home. So you've got this like melting pot of costs and decisions and things that need to be planned and communicated that aren't naturally done. And the worst thing about that is, particularly with aging parents, if it gets away from you, that they haven't necessarily been involved in the decision making and you're left with the decision-making responsibility. Now, if you're lucky enough, I say lucky enough to have siblings. My advice to people is to engage your siblings in a conversation early about your parents to work out how you can plan for their care and what responsibilities that you'd be prepared to take or you're not prepared to take, and how to navigate those. And I think the key thing is engaging your siblings as best as possible. And you know, setting up some personal boundaries as well, Tony. I think it's easy. It's enough having adult kids at home, um, but setting up some boundaries around what things you are prepared to do and perhaps what things you aren't. And again, this relies heavily on where we started today on communication. So get in early. This is another conversation that's really important to have, actually, is just establishing what you're comfortable with and what you're not comfortable with. And look, I think at the other end of the spectrum on Planet Squeeze around aging kids at home. Now in Australia, we have a slightly different trend to the US because a lot of Australian kids go to university or college in their hometown. Um, but more and more kids tend to be going away, which is good. But they're like boomerangs, they come back and they come back largely because it's just expensive to buy houses now. So people, as we've discussed, are staying at home longer. And so perhaps one of the things that you can do there is start to establish some type of board or rent that the kids pay. Um, just a little contribution towards the outgoings of the house that might be just a nice way, and you don't have to take that and you know spend it. You could save it up for them in time as well, but just to get them into the pattern, if you like, or the uh discipline of saving some money towards some outgoings that they're naturally going to have in life at some point, anyway. So I think it only helps them learning about money and financial choices by putting some money aside to making a contribution to the house. That's one of the small boundaries I think you can put in place at a certain point. Like with us, we've decided things like mobile phone bills and cars, um health insurance, they become your responsibility at different ages, but we sort of have tried to make a unilateral age for different for the cutoff of the parents funding, if you like, of um kids. So um, but now I don't think I mean a lot of parents won't kick their kids out of home necessarily, but um making sure that you have again open conversations about expectations with living cost. Um, but yeah, it's it's it's quite obvious when you realize people living longer, getting married later, having kids later, all these things are coming together and really impacting um people in our age group now. And it's a lot of pressure and stress and it does need planning and communication as best as possible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

So so I think the last part of it is that this does fall disproportionately on women, and it's exacerbated by pay gaps and career disruption. Is what advice do you have for women to deal with all that? Because that that's a whole toxic brew. They earn less money, they have the gaps, they have the expectations. How can women just sort of get ahead or stay afloat?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yeah, it's a really good question, Tony. I think you have to be selfish to some extent. So the advice I'd say or give people is what decisions can you make for you? So, what does this look like for you in five years from now or even 10 years from now? And so I talked a little bit before about boundaries and it's similar, which is actually recognizing what you're prepared to do and what feels fair for you, but actually um again communicating that choice. And whether that be to your spouse, to your kids, to your siblings, making sure people are aware of what you're prepared to do and what you're not, but being selfish also around uh what you need in your time, whether it be in you in your work, um, those types of things, and also just for your mental health. So you need some level of protection around yourself, and here's how you're gonna go about it. But again, being open, I think, with that uh is of great value to family.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Yeah, and I wouldn't say that it's necessarily being selfish. It's you have to take care of yourself. It's like the you know, put on your earbag first.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Yeah, that's right. 100%. Yeah, the oxygen mask for yourself. Now I use the word selfish probably because it's the most cut-through in terms of and to be honest, it's it sometimes comes to um giving people that energy around how they communicate, which is trying to be selfish because you know family are very good at breaking down barriers on finding their way in, you know, amazingly. So you have to kind of think, okay, how can I be more selfish about this? You know, what's going to be the best thing for me? Because right here and now, it might seem like a great idea that you're taking mum and dad to all their medical appointments and those types of things, but there might come a point where actually if you do that and you're not able to participate in the workforce in the way that you'd like, or you're running your own practice and it's this is got giving it no attention, that there'll be a cascading effect on your income down the track that might be a problem for you.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Yeah, keep you from your goals. So it's like it it is a balancing act. And I think, you know, one of your suggestions is, and people don't do this, is to engage your siblings in these conversations. You know, and to have a, you know, I call it a family transition meeting, um, you know, with your siblings and your parents about what what does that all look like? Yeah, who's supposed to do what, like you said, who's who's the power of attorney?

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Um that's right. Yeah. And and look, I went through I mentioned my parents both passing away. And um my sister and I, when my mum was really sick with cancer in hospital, and we were talking to lots of specialists, and we were clashing a little bit with that. Um, and I I was speaking to a an old school friend who had nursed her mum through um a cancer journey at home, and I was contemplating that at all sorts of things, and she talked to me then about playing to my sister's strengths. Now, if this isn't the best advice I've ever received, but it was trying to work out what, and you know what your siblings' strengths are, play to them, so delegate to them in accordance with their strengths. And my sister was um, I was the financial one, so she could do lots of other things, but I could talk to the doctors and do all the money stuff, and she could do lots of other things. If mum needed a pillow from home, she could go get that. You know, there was lots of things um that we could split up and not be clashing with each other. I mean, sometimes it's the opposite issue, which is nobody wants to jump in. Um, but I do think that that delegation skill is valuable when it comes to siblings and parents aging and managing care. But again, let's communicate, let's have a conversation about it.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah, communication is the key. So, Jackie, to wrap up, I have what I call the get ready hot take trio. These are three quick questions. Yeah. Thank you. And these are questions I ask all of my guests. The first one is what's one money myth you're trying to break?

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Ah, that more money will solve all your problems. Yeah, that's a myth.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

I have heard that from so many people is that more money won't solve all of your problems. And you know, we can see that in the States is like with athletes who go broke, you know, they make millions of dollars and then they're broke in a few years. So that that's a great myth. So let's get out the time machine. And you you were starting to talk about this earlier, but this this is a formal question now. Is if you could go back in time, knowing what you know now about money, what advice would you give your younger self?

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Yeah. Look, there's probably one point in my life where I could have done things differently. Like I'm pretty happy with most of it, uh, no regrets. But when I was um in a senior executive role earning really big bucks, I definitely so when you've got a good income, it's coming in the door, I don't think I was as strategic with that income as I could have been. But we're playing at the edges now. Like I think I um managed being in the property market, all those things well, but I could have been more strategic and I was definitely a bit loose with it uh for a period of time where I probably could have done it differently. So I I don't have um any regrets about kind of the path I've been. I'm sure I could have chosen my first husband slightly better and not had to go through a divorce, but hey, you live and you learn, right? I've learned from that experience. Um, but yeah, I think if I was on that um big in that big fancy job, earning great cash, I could have done things a little bit differently with that, um, that might have set me up more, you know, nicer than I have already. But yeah, maybe I just would have thought about that more at the time. You know, and it's all going well, I should have questioned it as well.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Well, it's hard not to, and you're young, and you know, when you're young, you feel slightly invulnerable. And uh yeah, and that gets back to the importance of you know, financial education for the young and helping them get financially started. And and it's hard. So it's easy, you know, uh to say, well, you know, I mean, I had problems with debt when I was in my 20s, you know, because I thought credit cards were the best thing ever invented.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Oh, yeah. You know, I've got a young adult in my house who thinks the same thing. I'm like, what man, you're still paying off a credit card. Don't do that. Tear it up. I'm like, praise it, get rid of it.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

It took me a little while, but I did it off. But you know, I mean, it's the things we go through, is we all have things to learn. So um to close out, the final question is what's your number one tip to change the way we think about money?

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Well money so things happen for you, not to you. And I think money is with money comes responsibility and opportunity. And if you look at it that way, I think that is really positive. I think you can be optimistic about it, you can recover from your mistakes with money you did like you did with your credit cards back in the day. Um, there's always a way to recover from money mistakes. So I think being optimistic about it can be really empowering. And that's the way I choose to look at any form of money as a blessing, actually. And yeah, that that's my hot tip, which is if you've got it, plan with it.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah, I I I love that tip. And you know, I've heard um, you know, people who've listened to this podcast have heard stories from people who've started with nothing and have been able to build very yeah satisfactory lives, you know, with enough money. And I and that's the other big question that we've addressed on this show is you know, what is enough to you? Because as you said, more money isn't the answer. Having enough is the answer to be satisfied.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

So actually, and I think one of the nice things about um maybe things not always going our way in life is that um resilience that you build through um trial and error with money, for example, is it can be one of the best things. You know, I feel like when I went through my divorce, I was completely cleaned out and I've rebuilt from that, but in a much stronger way than I would have continued life in that in my first marriage. So, you know, I think that builds resilience, obviously build my skills around dealing with anxiety, with money worries, um, and and also prove to myself that I could make it back. So um, yeah, you've got to back yourself, but things happen for you, um, they don't just happen to you. And you know, be optimistic. You can come back from money mistakes, and that's the most important thing people need to take away.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

That is awesome. That's great advice and a great place to close the show. So, Jackie, where can people learn more about you, your work, and pick up a copy of Stop Worrying About Money?

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Oh, I'm pretty easy to find, Tony. Um, LinkedIn, Jackie Clark. I'm I'm now writing on Substack under your personal CFO. So I write there weekly or fortnightly. Uh, you can buy my book on Amazon or Barnes and Noble pretty much anywhere I think you'll find, maybe not in the bookstores now, but certainly online. Um, and Instagram, Jackie Um ClarkTriple0.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Cool. And for everybody watching and listening, as always, if you have access to the show notes, you can go to the show notes to find links to um all those things that Jackie mentioned. So, Jackie, thanks for joining us on Get Ready Before Life Happens.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Yeah, thanks, I'm glad to be your guest today.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah, excited that you could join us. And thank you, everyone, as always, for tuning in to this episode of Get Ready Before Life Happens. If you learned something today to change the way you think about money, please be sure to subscribe and to share with a friend. You can also support this podcast at buymeacoffee.com slash Tony Stewart, or you can go to my website at Tony Stewart.com to subscribe to my newsletter. Because when life happens, the way you think about money matters.