Can You Learn Money in 2 Minutes a Day?

Small, daily habits can turn financial confusion into confidence.

Emily Boxall, Founder of the 2Mins App joined Tony on this episode of Get Ready Before Life Happens to talk about how gamification and bite-sized learning can transform financial education.

From quirky characters to two-minute lessons, Emily shares how making money more approachable, interactive, and judgment-free can help people build confidence and lasting financial habits. 

Key Takeaways

• Financial education works best when it is simple and accessible.
• Two-minute lessons make it easier to build consistent habits.
• Gamification helps people engage without fear or judgment.
• Repetition and interaction improve long-term retention.
• Many people feel money is “not for them” due to how it’s taught.
• Confidence grows when people apply what they learn.
• Financial education should start early and continue over time. 

🧠 Tony’s Take: Financial confidence comes from small, consistent steps. When we make money approachable, people engage. And when people engage, they build habits that lead to better decisions.

Connect with Emily Boxall:

• LinkedIn (Emily): https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-boxall-ab3b53172/
• Website (2mins app): https://microfact.co.uk
• LinkedIn: 2mins 
• Instagram: @2minsapp
• TikTok: @2minsapp

Bio: 

Emily Boxall is the Co-founder of 2mins, the app turning financial education into engaging, bite-sized games. Her background spans marketing, communications and journalism, including freelance writing for the Investors’ Chronicle. She co-founded 2mins with her dad, Chris Boxall, and together they are on a mission to build financial confidence through humour, creativity and fun.

2mins was recently named runner-up in the Best Fintech/AI by a For Profit Organisation category at the Money Awareness and Inclusion Awards (MAIAs) 

This episode is a collaboration with The Money Awareness and Inclusion Awards (the MAIAs) which celebrate the increasingly important work being done to help people understand money better. Learn more: https://www.maiawards.org. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Get ready before life happens. The podcast helping you navigate life's what if learning about money took just two minutes a day? Welcome to Get Ready Before Life Happens. I'm excited to be joined today by Emily Boxall, co-founder of the Two Men's app. Emily, welcome to Get Ready Before Life Happens.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Thank you so much, Tony. It's really exciting to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yeah, well, excited to share with the audience uh what you're up to and what you're building because I think it's a great uh project. So tell us a little bit about yourself. What is your origin story and how did it inspire you to build the Two Men's app?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yeah, of course. So um I love games and I've always loved games. I grew up in a very sporty, competitive household and yeah, played all kinds of board games growing up. And so my dad has worked in finance most of his life. So I grew up around someone who was able to teach me about investing from a very young age. So I was quite comfortable talking about finance from a young age, which was very fortunate. And then my mum was a or is an author and was a teacher, and so this is where I get my creative side from as well. And I studied English at uni, and then I went on to do some marketing and comms roles, where I developed this love of turning things that were maybe a bit dry or boring into something really fun and engaging. And then it was while I was working in one of these roles that my dad pitched the idea to develop a financial education app together. So using his financial expertise and my creative side and put them together and create something fresh and new. So that was about a year and a half ago. And we launched our app, Tumins, in January, and we are currently trying to grow this audience and get much more people excited about learning about finance through the app.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Well, that's awesome. And I like that blend of the creative and you know, the expertise, because a lot of the apps I've seen are either built by tech people or they're built by just people who have the financial expertise, or they're built by people who just build it as a game. Where I think you need all the elements. And, you know, as you point out, money is pretty dry. So it's, you know, it's great to have a little bit of creativity thrown in there as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Yeah, yeah, 100%. So we're we're really, we really care about doing something that's new and fresh. So we really wanted to distance the app from those kind of dry images that you see in a lot of existing financial education, like uh men in suits representing an investor or an elderly person representing pensions. Uh, we wanted to appeal to people in a way that was more engaging than this. So that's why our herd of quirky animal characters was born. So we started with Petal the Hippo, who's this um very lovable, friendly hippo who does get very angry when watching football on TV, but other than that, is is a super chilled out character, and then the other animals grew from there, and that's just the an example of of why how we're doing things in a unique, fresh way.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Well, is the important question from a US person is pedal a hooligan? UK term.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Oh, I wouldn't say hooligan. I think pedal's more of a grumpy football supporter, which you get a lot of them in the UK as well.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

That's awesome. So, you know, I mean, you know, all kidding aside is that you know, it's nice to see that there's some emotion with these characters, is that I guess they're not flat for lack of a better word. So, you know, with the kidding aside about the hooligans is that I I think people can identify because there's some personality. Do all the characters have their own personality?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yes, yeah, so they're all really distinct, and they you get to know them more as you play the games. So you get to know that uh Potts the Panda has a weakness for donuts, or that fetch the border quality, he's actually inspired by my family's pet dog Shadow, is just absolutely bonkers because Shadow is absolutely bonkers as well. And so you really buy into these characters, and our streak system is a little bit different to usual streaks. So usually streaks, you'll just get given a number and that builds up. With our streak system, your animal character increases in happiness as your streak progresses. So we really wanted our users to form like an emotional connection with these characters and really care about them and wanting to make sure that their characters are well. So, yeah, that's another way we get people engaging with the app and engaging in finance in in a more fun, interactive way.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Yeah, I I like that because the streaks are sort of dry. Um, but you know, if you have some actually, it sort of makes me think of Tamagotchi. I I never use a Tamagotchi, so I may be way off on this. But that, you know, like you're talking about, is it you keep your character happy by checking in with them and you know, doing whatever you need to do is to help them have uh stay healthy. So do you think people start to identify with the characters in a way where they're saying, okay, you know, I'm like petal, so you know, pedal's learning about money, and that kind of impacts us because we each have our own money personality.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah, a hundred percent. I think people really grow to love and care about these characters, and they relate this world that these characters are living in and can apply their own personal experiences to the experience of the animals. And this helps make concepts like pensions and investing much more relatable than if they are this abstract concept that is only explained in in graphs and boring, boring long documents. So yeah, I think it's a really powerful way of getting people to understand these quite complicated concepts that they're having to try and understand in their own lives. So yeah, there's there's a big opportunity to provide a really friendly face to finance with these characters. And so that's what we're we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Yeah, well, I I like that because I think people oftentimes feel with money is, you know, they feel fear, they feel shame, and a lot of it is around just because they don't know. And, you know, it's like when they meet with somebody from the financial services industry or insurance industry, is you know, they don't want to say they don't know something like, I don't know what a premium is, I don't know what a deductible is, I don't know this or that, you know, I don't know what a stock is. And for those in the money world, um, you know, if I was talking to your dad, you know, is you know, we could get very esoteric, but for most person, it'd be like, what are you two talking about? And I think that's something that's missed, is is like, that's where I like where you're going with this, is that it's something that's approachable. And it, I think using the animal allows the character. Um, I'm not sure what the best word is or that you prefer, but that it helps people sort of engage, but that they don't have to feel judged for not knowing something.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah, a hundred percent. And we're not trying to appeal to individuals who already know this stuff because they're already being served by other forms of communication. What we really care about is the people who have never felt that they can engage with finance, who feel like it's not for them, it's an intimidating world and they don't even know where to begin. With us, we're that first step. Um we invite everyone in and say, this is how you learn about finance in a in a much more approachable, friendly way. And in doing that, we are able to get people who had never engaged with the topics of investing or pensions or other financial topics to to keep coming back and playing these games and developing a strong habit with financial education over time.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

I love that developing a strong habit. And I think that's the thing I've seen with some of these platforms where people don't go back and use them. You know, they download them, they go in for a week or two, and then it's like they're done. And, you know, I think that's a problem. But what I also like is that this is something where you're going for people who aren't already engaging with their money, because that's the majority of the population around the world. The majority of the population knows nothing about their money, they don't really engage with their money, you know, they you know, they have a savings account, maybe they invest a little bit, you know, but they're investing in crypto or something. It's not really okay. So I'm not dissing crypto for anybody watching or listening, but crypto is not a good entry into uh your investing world. So um, you know, one of the things that we talked about is that traditional financial education isn't working. So why do you feel that traditional financial education isn't working, especially for younger audiences or you know, female audiences or other underserved communities?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah, I think it's assuming it financial education tends to assume there's a base level of knowledge that sometimes people don't have. So that makes it quite inaccessible. And so if we pull it back to the basics with our app, we're able to meet people where they are rather than oh, sorry, Tony, would we be able to do an edit here and cut that out? Because I feel like I want to say it slightly different slightly differently.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

What do you see in traditional financial education that's working, especially for younger audiences, women, people of color, other underserved communities?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, so I think that existing financial education isn't serving young people as well as it could be, because it's alienating a lot of young people with the language and the imagery that's being used. So we're really keen to change that with not just the imagery but with our gamified elements as well. And also the way that a lot of finance is communicated is in long form, really dull formats. And so that's why we've gone for the two min's approach, the bite-sized quick approach, and we're we're creating an experience that actually fits into your day-to-day life. And as well, I think a lot of financial education apps have relied on simple quizzes as a way of testing financial knowledge. And the issue with quizzes is you can guess the answer right, or you can easily click an answer but then forget it in a few moments' time. And so the way we've designed our games is that you actually have to really think about these topics and apply your knowledge, which reinforces what you've just learned in the storyboard you you've read previously. So we're we're hoping that this approach will help these complex topics be better reinforced over the long term.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

I I like that because I think that's something that that is missed, is as you say, is a lot of financial education is just, you know, I and I think we're not seeing as much of this as like the videos and some of those traditional financial literacy platforms that had great content, but people couldn't really engage with it. And as you say, is important is being able to apply and use the knowledge. And that's what's key is people need to be able to say, hey, I can I can use this. And as you say, is they can remember it a half hour after they're done, you know, engaging with the material. And that's the trick. So I I love that you're doing that. Now, do people sort of circle back sometimes to the material to reinforce it?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Yes, and that's partly because we encourage that in the way we design our content. So we'll the way our content is structured is through weekly themes. So we'll introduce a topic on a Monday, then we'll expand on that on the Wednesday, and then we'll go back over the full picture on the Friday, and there'll be three different formats of games so that you're applying that knowledge in three different ways during the week. So that's really going over and reinforcing because it's very easy for financial topics, especially when it's new to you, to go in one ear out the other. Like I that happens to me. So I was really keen to help people to reinforce information, but in a way that's fun, not in a way that's oh, we're going over this again. We're we're making it it slightly different and quirky every time. And then we also will go back over content over a longer period of time as well. So we started off the year with a pay slip um game, a a week's worth of payslips games, and now we're about to revisit that or the topic of pay slips in a few weeks' time. So we don't we don't just deliver these lessons once, we keep coming back to them. And you can also favorite lessons. So if something was particularly relevant to you, we've just added this feature where you can actually favorite it and keep it in your personal profile. So then you're making the experience a bit more personal to you when you can come back to this information at a later date if it's useful to you.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

That's awesome. I I love that because I think that's what's important. And you know, I'm thinking about, you know, that saying like, um, you know, if you hear a talk, you know, you remember like a very little bit of it, you know, like 15 minutes later, and you barely remember anything, you know, besides the topic, like, you know, a couple of hours later. So I think that's really important is that you go back and reinforce that. Um, and you know, like I read an article somebody wrote about their conference experience where, you know, she wrote that, you know, I go to conferences and I take all these notes and you know, I go back and read through the notes sometimes, and but I'm not retaining any of the information from going to these great conferences and hearing these great speakers because it's you're not engaging with the content, the content is just streaming towards you, and so I think that that's an important thing is to to change it around. Like you you are where people are able to engage with the content. So that's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah, I really relate to that. I think for me, I need to, I think they say you have to repeat something through at least three times in order to to remember it. And yeah, we've we've taken that and and used that that philosophy in our in our lessons. Um, because yeah, it's so easy to to not remember the these topics. And I think our imagery really helps with retention as well, because it's giving you a clear visual that you can come back to in your mind. Uh and yeah, I think that's super helpful and what a lot of existing financial education was lacking. It there just wasn't enough visuals to it, or the visuals were were dry and disengaging. So yeah, we're trying to do something fresh and different there.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Well, fantastic. So, you know, let's ask specifically about women. Is do you think that it's something, especially for women, uh, that they're engaging with more than traditional financial education programs because it changes that sort of uh judgment and shame that's often associated for women with money?

SPEAKER_00 18:04

I think we've got a really big opportunity to appeal to more women. And I've spoken to my female friends who've downloaded the app and are playing it, and they're really enjoying the fact that it's it's something that they can start and they don't need any existing information. So I think that it's not just women who are going to benefit from this, but anyone who has felt that the financial world isn't for them can now find a friendlier space in order to learn about finance through our app. And yeah, I think it's it's a huge we have a huge opportunity to better appeal to women because there are some serious literacy gaps that we we need to fill. And I hope that the app can do a good job in in filling some of these gaps and and better supporting women with with financial education.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

And I think that's great, is because you know, a lot of people, especially women, often feel that the financial world isn't for them, especially sometimes, you know, and that can even be cultural as well. But it it is a big issue. So I'm glad that's something that you know that the app helps with. And I, you know, and from what I've seen and how you've described it to me, I I think it definitely does by making money approachable and not really about money. I I you know, I mean it is about money, but you know, people aren't thinking, I don't think when they engage with your app that they're thinking solely that this is a financial app. And I think that's that's a good thing. Um so how is making financial education more interactive uh changing behavior?

SPEAKER_00 20:02

So I think several ways. I think that if you were just to uh look read a piece of financial education and not interact with it, like we were saying, it's very easy for you to understand it in that moment but forget it later on. But if you're interacting with it, you are much more likely to retain that piece of information and then take it on and apply it in a real life scenario. And so, for example, we've got several games on pension education, and we're finding that it's in interacting with the game, it gives people a confidence that yes, I actually do understand what a pension is, how I can log into my pension, and they are more likely to go away and actually engage with their personal pension and log into their to their accounts or maybe even consolidate their different pensions. And yeah, I think it's much more impactful if we get people to genuinely interact with these topics and not just read them and and cast them aside for months. We want them to develop the confidence and build a long-term habit with the education side in order to go on and apply that information in their in their day-to-day lives.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah, and I think that's so important is that it's all about building healthy money habits as much as the information itself. It's it's building those habits and how we approach money. Um, so as we start to wrap up, is where do you see financial education going over the next few years? Do you believe that it's going to be more of this interactive? I mean, obviously, because you're building the two men's app, you believe in this. Is do you think that this is where financial education is going to go overall?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah, I'm I'm really optimistic about it. So in the UK, there's um going to be some curriculum changes that will come in in 2028 where financial education is going to become part of our curriculum, which is really, really positive. And so it's great to see that it's it's being given more of a role and there's more importance is being attached to it. And I'm hoping that Tumens can play a role there and create uh and and and be used in more in schools, and and also we're at with Tumens, we we're really keen to get it in more workplaces as well. So we have recently published a white paper that advocates for financial education being mandatory in the workplace because we see that as a huge opportunity, not just for the employees, but the employers as well, because there's growing research that shows that employees who have strong financial well-being are more likely to be more productive and it supports retention as well in companies. So there's a real win-win here that financial education in the workplace benefits both employer and employee. So I'm hopeful that it will shift as well and become a stronger presence in schools and the workplace. And yeah, I'm hoping that Tumens can be a part of that.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Yeah, well, and I agree. I think that financial education is something that should have a role in the workplaces. You know, for example, I think of, you know, at least in the US, is uh open enrollment for employee benefits, is most employees just you know go with what they had the year before. They don't really know what they're doing, and um, you know, or they do what their friends are doing, and there's not a lot of personalization for them. So the employee benefits go underutilized or they're not the correct ones. And you know, I think employers, you know, just from that standpoint, but we know that financial stress plays a role on the impact of employee an employee's efficiency. Uh, you know, if they're thinking about their mortgage while they're at work and not being able to pay the bills, that does impact performance. So yeah, I'm with you on that. I think that's a huge consideration.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yeah, I think I think it could be really powerful. And yeah, it's it might take a bit of time for for there to be any real political change around financial education in the workplace, but I think workplaces themselves can do a play a role in in prioritizing this in their benefits packages. So yeah, I'm I'm feeling optimistic for the future of financial education. I think it's gonna, we're we're heading in the right direction.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Yeah, I believe so as well. So just a quick question about the white paper, is it available to the public?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yes, it is. Yeah, you can find it on the MicroFact website. So it's microfact.co.uk and it will be under our our research under insights. I can I can share a link if that's helpful at the end.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah, if if you want to just email me the link, then I can put in the show notes. So if you're watching and listening, you can go to the show notes and you'll be able to find a link to the white paper. So, Emily, to wrap up, I have what's called the get ready hot take trio, and these are three quick questions I ask all of my guests. The first one is what's one money myth you're trying to break?

SPEAKER_00 25:54

The biggest one for me is that finance is boring. I would love to change perceptions around that because I think if people start thinking that finance is exciting and empowering, then we can have a massive opportunity to change long-term habits. And I don't think it's boring. I think it's just been communicated in a boring way for far too long. And hopefully we're doing something that changes that.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

That's fantastic. And I think, you know, what you said about money can be empowering, but it's really the knowledge about money that's empowering. And as you point out, it's like the jargon and it's everything else. It's very unapproachable. So um, you know, breaking it down into a way that connects with how people talk and think, you know, is brilliant. So I love that you're building it that way. So, you know, let's get out the time machine for a minute. If you can go back in time knowing what you know now about money, what advice would you give your younger self, let's say your younger self at uni?

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Oh, yeah, that's a good one. I think I think it would be to just start engaging with it. Don't be so intimidated. And even if it's a small bit of progress every day, that that really adds up over time. So yeah, I would say just just start and um and look at different resources as well, I think. Yeah, just just get involved in your financial education from a younger age. I think that can be really powerful.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Yeah, and you you you probably won't be surprised to hear that's one of the most popular answers to this question. Oh, really? Is to get started early. And so I think there's something there. And when you talk about youth financial literacy, is that does lead to it because that's the way we're gonna get uh young people thinking about money is you know, is that a lot of us didn't have any financial education as we were going through the school system, but yet it's one of the most important parts of our lives. So, you know, that's definitely a great point. Um, so the final question is what's your number one tip to change the way we think about money?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

So my number one tip is to you have the power to set your own definition of financial success. And I think that's really important, especially today with social media, there are there's a lot of pressure around looking at the successes of others and the financial situations of others and think that's the goal, that must be what I need to do. But actually, if you can remove yourself from that and set your own personal financial goals, it's much more attainable and realistic and much more motivational as well. So yeah, and that's one of our key lessons in in the app is learning how to set your own personal financial goals. And I think that has a really that could have a really big effect on individuals and and help make people feel have a much more healthy relationship with money.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

That's awesome. Yeah, and I completely agree is that, you know, especially with social media, as you know, people look at social media and they go, oh, my friends are on this trip or they've bought a new car, and you're only seeing the best moments of their lives. And you know, and you don't know how they're affording these things or if they're going in debt or if they have poor money habits, that I think, yeah, you have to have your own definition of financial success. And it's not necessarily retiring at a certain age or doing anything else. It's like what is going to be as one of my guests, what's enough for you. I think that's so important.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah, and it's much more exciting to think about money in that way because then yeah, we we're working towards something that's deeply personal to us, which is really special. And yeah, I think that would be a if we can help people change their money mindsets in that way, that would be a big success for for two mines.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Yeah, that that's awesome. And I think that's a great place to close. So, where can people learn more about you in the Tumins app?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

So we there are a few areas. So if if someone's interested and would like to download Tumins, just type in the number two and then M-I-N S into the App Store or Google Play, and you can download us there. And then we have recently launched our Instagram, which is at Tumins App. And we're also on LinkedIn as MicroFact, and our website is microfact.co.uk.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

And for everybody watching and listening, if you have access to the show notes, you'll be able to go to the show notes and find all those links, as well as to the white paper that we talked about earlier. Um, Emily, thank you so much for coming on Get Ready Before Life Happens. This is a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Thank you so much for having me, Tony. Yeah, that was really, really good. I love speaking about Tumens. I hope my passion came through. And yeah, I hope that some people connected with some of the things we were talking about and will be up for downloading Tumens.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Awesome. And yeah, I I think this is really an interesting and valuable conversation because we really do need to change how we're talking about money. I mean, that's the whole point of the show. Um I think Tumens is really doing that. So even if you're in a country where you can't download uh the Tumens app, where it's not available, I would still recommend checking out uh the website and to learn a little bit more about the approach, especially if you're building your own financial wellness uh program. Uh you can definitely find some interesting things there. And thank you everyone, as always, for tuning into this episode of Get Ready Before Life Happens. You can go to my website at Tony Stewart.com to join the Get Ready Movement to receive my newsletter and um free resources. And if you'd like to support the Get Ready Movement and this podcast, you can do so at buymeacoffee.com slash Tony Stewart. Because when life happens, the way we think about money matters, you know, that's what I'm saying.