Every Money Decision You Make Sends a Signal

Your money decisions show what matters most to you.

Cecile Biccari, sustainable finance specialist and author joined me on the Get Ready Before Life Happens Podcast to talk about how money influences more than your personal finances.

Cecile shares how sustainable finance connects everyday decisions, from spending to investing, with real-world impact. This conversation explores how anyone can align their money with their values and contribute to a more intentional future.

Key Takeaways

• Sustainable finance applies to everyday financial decisions.
• Your spending and investing reflect what you value.
• Investment choices influence real-world outcomes.
• Sustainability includes environmental, social, and governance factors.
• Impact can come from money, time, and attention.
• Early money conversations help shape lifelong beliefs.
• You can align your money with your goals and values.

🧠 Tony’s Take: What stood out is that money is more than a financial tool. It’s a signal. When we align our decisions with what matters most, we create impact in our own lives and in the world around us.

Connect with Cecile Biccari:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilebiccari/
• Your Money, Your World / Nora’s Treasure Website: https://www.norastreasure.com
• Ethos education platform focuses on sustainable finance: https://ethos.hiveq-cloud.com/ch/en-GB/Home

Book:

• Your Money and the World: How to Spend, Save, Donate and Invest Sustainably by Cecile Biccari (Amazon) (Bookshop)

Resources mentioned:

• Impact Philanthropy Advisor from Daylight Advisors (here)
• Invest for Better website (here). Check out my conversation with Invest For Better Founder: Janine Firpo on the Get Ready Before Life Happens podcast: Invest In Alignment With Your Values (here)
• Morningstar - Sustainable Investing (here)

Bio: Cecile Biccari has worked in sustainable finance for more than 20 years. She started her career at the World Business Council for Sustainable Development (WBCSD) in early 2000s and then worked in the finance industry, helping investors to understand the social and environmental challenges we face, and how to incorporate these factors in their financial decisions. Along the way, she helped develop a number of training courses for investment professionals. 

When her children, aged 7 and 5 at the time, started asking her questions about money, she decided to write a story to explain to them the basics of sustainable finance. Illustrated by Naiade Lacolomb and published by HELVETIQ, a Swiss publishing company, at the beginning of 2024, her book combines a comic strip story and a documentary explaining the connections between money, happiness, impact and responsibility. Cecile currently works at the Ethos Foundation to develop education programs on responsible investment for Swiss pension funds.

In collaboration with The Money Awareness and Inclusion Awards (the MAIAs) which celebrate the increasingly important work being done to help people understand money better. Learn more: https://www.maiawards.org.  

👉 Start Your Financial Readiness Plan: A free, practical plan that helps you create your in-case-of-emergency Financial First Aid Kit, organize what matters, and prepare before life happens. Start Your Free Financial Readiness Plan  https://www.tonysteuer.com

👉 Support the Mission: Become a Get Ready Insider and receive access to the Get Ready Library while helping support my mission to help people prepare before life happens. Become a Get Ready Insider  https://www.tonysteuer.com/get-ready-insider

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Get ready before life happens. The podcast helping you navigate life's blood is. Money can do more than grow wealth. It can help shape the future we want to live in. Welcome to Get Ready Before Life Happens. Today I'm joined by Cecile Becari. Cecile, welcome to the show.

unknown 0:31

Thanks, Tony. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Yeah, it's great to have you on. So tell us a little bit about yourself. What is your origin story and how did it lead you into sustainable finance and focusing on impact?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Well, the story started right at the very beginning of my professional career. It was my first job pretty much back in 2000, was uh working in human rights at the UN as an intern. And so I guess right from the get-go, I was interested in having a positive impact on the world. Um, and that story quickly developed to take me to that concept of sustainable development, which back in 2000, 2001 was still a bit of a new term, um, maybe not something everyone was aware of as they are today. But I started working in sustainability more on the corporate side, and after a couple of years of doing that, I realized there's only so much we can do with businesses if we don't get the investors on board with this topic, because money is the oil of the economy. Um, and if we align the thinking of investors to worry about long-term impacts and long-term challenges, um, then the corporates will also have a license to invest in long-term strategies and not just be focused on short-term uh profits. And uh and those so that's how I ended up sort of going into finance uh with impact in mind, uh, not because I had a love of finance to start off with or because I knew anything about finance, to be honest. Um, but I saw it as a as a very important uh transmission mechanism and channel to deliver impact, and I wanted to be a part of that uh transformation. That was 2001, two, three, four, five, six, and now, yeah, 25 years later, um, I'm still in that space and um and still trying to drive change from within.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Well, that's fantastic. Yeah, and I I am a firm believer in that you can have impact with your money. Um, so it's great to see, and I think with your background, having worked, you know, in the UN and sustainable development, that brings a slightly different lens to people who grew up in the financial services industry. So, you know, one of the things is there's a lot of people who go, well, sustainable finance is for, you know, it's just for wealthy people. So why do you feel that sustainable finance is for everyone?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Well, I think you know, money affects all of us. I mean, it's not a question of how much money you have, it's a question of what you're doing with that money. Um, and of course, there are questions around, you know, how you use your money for purchasing decisions. I mean, that has an impact on the world, what how you spend your money, what you choose to buy. So that's one side of it. There is, of course, the dimension of you know investing as well. So how do you choose to invest if you choose to invest, and again, I think we can talk about that later, but investment is not reserved to people that have a lot of money. It's something that uh that is accessible and should be something that everyone should engage with uh to manage their money for the long term and start as young as they can if possible. Um, so that also uh has an impact from a sustainability perspective. And even if you're not investing yourself, even if you're not comfortable and you haven't made those first steps into investments, you're probably saving for your pensions somewhere. And your pension fund is investing on your behalf until you get to retirement. And so knowing how that money is invested on your behalf and what sort of world it's contributing to create, this concerns all of us. It's all of our money. And so I think that's why it's important that everyone understands that uh it's not reserved for people that have a lot of money, it's uh it's it concerns us all, and we can all have an influence on on how this money is being invested and steered for us.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

That's fantastic. Um, you know, just to make sure for everybody uh who's watching and listening, is can you uh define what sustainable finance is?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, sure. I mean sustainable finance is essentially thinking about uh long-term environmental, social, economic governance issues and how they can affect investment returns and investment risks, and generally your investment strategy. So it's looking a little bit beyond the traditional financial lens of the annual statements of the companies and their profits and costs, and looking at how they're managing other aspects of their business operation, which are a little bit more intangible, their environmental impact, their social impact, um, but how this can also essentially over time affect their ability to be successful in the long run, to be competitive, to be resilient, to continue to have a license to operate great products and services. So, sustainable finance is really how do we expand our lens from just looking at a narrow financial performance to understanding that creating value is much broader than just your bottom line. And we need to look at these other aspects of environmental impact, social impacts that are not necessarily always priced in the economy or in the financial markets, um, but they deliver value, and if we don't care for them, then we also deplete them, and that will sort of come back and hit us uh over time. We see that with the conversations around climate change and other aspects as well. So that's what sustainable finance is, it's just having a holistic approach to understanding um risks and opportunities, really.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

I I love that, and I I think that's so important is because you know it is our money, and we do have the choices to invest in it, spend in it. Sometimes people say, you know, I'm not gonna buy from a certain company, or I'm not gonna invest in, let's say, tobacco stocks or, you know, in the US, sometimes they're called SIN stocks. Um, certain people will say that. So, you know, it is good to recognize that that you do have some power with your money. Uh and sometimes it's not even a lot of money, but you know, you can have that. So, how do you feel um that money can become a practical tool for driving this positive change? You know, how what are some practical tips for people to actually start using their money for good?

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, I think we've touched on a couple of things already. But essentially, I think just in the same way that you know, we vote with our feet, we we vote with our wallets. So every single financial decision we make sends a signal into the system about what we actually value and what we value less. And so, you know, in the book uh that I that I wrote for children to explain this concept, um maybe we'll talk about it a bit more in detail. But essentially we're we're trying to explain to kids from a young age these notions of sustainable finance, and that it applies to every single option of what you can do with your money, every single type of financial decision, whether you spend, save, invest, donate. And very practically, if you're spending, it means taking into account maybe where the things are coming from, how they've been built, what have been their environmental social impact. If you know that a toy has been built out of China or other places, that maybe there's a lot of materials in it that are not good for the environment, or people have been producing it under bad working condition, uh, this might be something that you care about sufficiently to say, you know, I'm prepared to factor that into my decision to spend, to spend maybe less on these type of objects, and as a counterparty to spend to save and spend a little bit more on something that I think is higher value and ticks all the boxes that I care about. So this is on the spending side. Um on the saving side, um, of course, you know, if you're just saving your money in your piggy bank, then that doesn't have much uh sustainability effect uh on it. But the minute you start saving uh with a bank account, uh you can think about you know what sort of banking partner uh are you choosing to look after that money for you? And how are they aligned with your preference on sustainability? What are they doing with all of those savings and how are they lending it? What sort of ethical guidelines do they have? Are they happy to lend to the sin stocks that you talked about earlier? Or are they having some sort of criteria that guides their lending practice as well? And then, of course, with children, we often talk about sort of just spending and and and saving, but I think you know, investing and donating are things that we can start talking about very young as well. And and there is where a lot of the sustainability impacts are very clear as well, particularly with donating. I mean, of course, that's where, again, with small amounts, you don't have to wait to be rich or very old, but you just like the same way you have the joy of receiving, you can, or the joy of buying something for yourself, you can have the the joy of donating and supporting some causes that you're that that are close to your heart. Um, and of course, investment is where you also are financing things in the real world. And so, what do you choose to finance with this money? Um, are you financing economic activities that deliver positive change or the ones that tend to on balance have a negative effect on people and the environment? So you can ask yourself the questions for every single financial decision and add this sort of sustainability lens to the lens of you know, what will happen with my money? How does that affect my personal goals? And that helps you sort of navigate a little bit this space.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

That's great. So, you know, just as a follow-up question before we get into your book, is how can the average person start to think about some of these things? Is because you know, is like with some of the investing funds, is there I don't want to say misleading is the right word, but they say they're an environmental, social governance fund, but they're not really, you know, is how can the average person really think about applying that sustainable lens?

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah, I mean, the industry has gone through like a lot of developments over the last particularly five, 10, um, 15 years. Um, so no one talked about it much, you know, when I started, and it was very niche. And then, you know, came a phase more recently where uh people became aware and clients started asking about these topics. Um, we also had some big um uh global agreements around climate change that sort of like put a framework around our global ambition to tackle this topic. So the industry then started innovating and producing a lot of products and a lot of funds. And of course, that led us to the situation now of you know greenwashing where maybe some claims have been a little bit stretched, and there's a lot of criticism now that it's a lot of hot air, and uh we also experienced a lot of what we call the ESG backlash uh currently, and particularly in the US, it's even stronger than maybe for us here in Europe. Because people feel, like you said, that you know, that maybe the industry got a little bit ahead of itself, and um a lot of branding and marketing started to associate with this idea of sustainability and green, but what how were the products fundamentally different? Um, so the regulators are now coming into it, uh, at least in Europe, we're seeing a lot of that, to try and clarify all of this and and put some rules around it so that consumers can can see uh a little bit what is and what is not sustainable. I think the reality is that you know it's also not black and white. I mean, there's a lot of shades of green. So um the idea of sustainability is is a is a transition towards something better. So we're always trying to be better in terms of our environmental impact, social impacts, but it doesn't mean that there's no negative impact uh overnight, right? So it depends a little bit uh you know what topics you care about. So this is one aspect. Are you more interested in the environmental impacts? Are you more interested in the social impacts, or is that you know equally weighted in your mind? Um, and also are you more interested in you know real solution providers, companies that are really bringing the new products and services that are solving these problems, or are you interested in vanilla, plain vanilla companies that are transitioning their processes to be more sustainable? But their products and services might not be great to start off with, but they're they're transitioning. Um so I I admit that it's not, you know, it's not necessarily always easy to navigate, you shouldn't always trust the label, it's not completely black and white. But I think what's important to know is um, okay, I care about these topics, and I and I find if I see a fund that seems to have a reasonably uh robust and disciplined process about looking for these factors in the way they select the companies and build their portfolios, and they can explain it, articulate it, and it seems robust enough, then um that's something I can I can probably get behind.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

That's great. And for people who are looking at investing in funds, you know, maybe exchange traded funds are a little more challenging because some of them have, you know, sometimes hundreds of stocks, you know, especially if they're tracking an index. But you know, there are some funds where you can see the stocks that are invested in. And so, you know, as you say, is that yeah, it's it's not always an easy answer. And unfortunately, the US is right now moving away from some of these things, unfortunately, or at least helping people understand these tools. And as you said, taking away some of the consumer education that we had. So, you know, for people out there, is it's like always is do some research. There are some great tools out there um to help you with these things. Unfortunately, I can't think of any on air, but um I'll uh I'll do some research and add some tools on sustainability uh to the show notes so you'll be able to go to the show notes. And Cecile, I don't know if you have any.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Yeah, on stock specifics, particularly one thing that can be helpful is uh Morningstar provides ESG ratings for large companies, and that's available freely on their website. So you can just look up if you're you know investing in individual stocks rather than funds, or if you want to look at the top 10 holdings of a fund you're looking at, or or if they disclose all of their holdings, you can sort of do a quick search on Morningstar's uh ESG rating to see you know how these companies are rated on these three pillars of environmental social governance issues. It won't give you all the underlying research, uh, but there's a solid methodology behind all of these ratings. They're all a little bit different, they have their own kind of um emphasis on specific things, but generally they give you a good overall picture, you know, compared to industry peers, how is this company rated? And that can be a good useful um starting point to get a sense of the portfolio.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Fantastic. And for everybody watching and listening, if you're not familiar, Morningstar is a fantastic resource for uh researching investments. And so there'll be a link to the Morningstar website. So Ciao, let's um talk a little bit about your book. What inspired you to write Your Money and the World?

unknown 17:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Uh well, the book, I can show it to you briefly. That's the English version of the book. Um, I wrote it first in French because originally I'm French, and my children were asking me some questions um about what do I do in my daytime when I'm not looking after them. And I was trying to explain to them my job and uh and money and sustainability, and I always like to pick up uh books when we try and talk about a topic, and so I looked around and I couldn't find any good books uh on this on this topic. Um I found some books that explained a little bit about you know money. Um there's more in the US and the in the UK, interestingly, than some of the other European markets where it's a little bit taboo to speak about money with children that young. My kids were about five and seven years old when they started asking me those questions. So I could find some books, but none that really brought also the sustainability dimension uh into the discussion. And I wanted something that that combined these two mindsets because I think when we start to teach people about finance and money, and we don't talk about impacts, then it's something that that it's a conversation we'll have to have later on. Uh but for kids it's completely intuitive if if from the get-go you explain these concepts um hand in hand. So uh I just decided to write the story for them, so I wrote them in French, and then I found a Swiss publisher who was happy to publish the book, and so because we're in Switzerland, uh we decided uh right away that it would come out in French, German, and English. Um, so it did it exists in those three languages.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Fantastic. And I I think it's great, is because so often we don't think that we can have impact with our money or think about aligning our monies, uh, our money with our values. So it's so important. Um, could you talk just a little bit before I have a couple more questions about the book? But talk about the format because it's a very unique format in how you wrote the book. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

So the the book has uh um uh two parts to it. Um the the first half is a comic strip, it's uh a little story that that was my original story when I went to the publisher with my manuscript. I wanted something that was really like a bedtime story, something like a little adventure where you know you find a treasure, and usually you find the treasure at the end of the book, and you never really know what happens with the treasure. So I wanted the treasure to be the starting point of the book. And this little girl finds this treasure and she doesn't know what to do with it, but she meets like a little mouse who's uh expert in finance and sustainable finance, and um treasure management expert, she calls herself. And this little mouse gives her insights into all these different options through like jumping into different worlds. So she gets to try out different scenarios around you know, spending, saving, investing, and donating, and she gets to learn a little bit from these different experiences to think in these three dimensions, you know, what will happen with the money, how's that gonna make me feel, like my personal goal, my well-being, um, and also what's the impact on the world and people and the environment. So that was the kind of the nugget of the story. And my idea was that it would be a nice way for parents and kids to learn together about this topic and to discuss the topic. It would be sort of like an introduction into the topic. Uh, and the publisher then asked me to add a second half to the book, which is more an educational half, which goes into more of a QA sort of um discussion around money in our lives and money in the world. So we just go through these different options in more detail again, and we go into more explanation if you want, about uh what does investment look like? Um what does uh where does money come from? Um and there's also some philosophical aspects to it about money and happiness and um and yeah, bitcoins and carbon credits and all sorts of all sorts of interesting stuff.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Well, that's fantastic. And and what I love about this book, and you know, about so many of the uh other kids' books for financial literacy is that quite often parents don't know much more than their kids about their money. So it's a great way for parents to learn at the same time uh because it lowers their barriers about learning about money, you know, with their shame or judgment or whatever with learning about money. So it's a great way for parents to also learn at the same time. Um, so why is childhood Such an important time to have these conversations about money and impact.

unknown 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Well, I think my kids were not unique, you know, in asking me those questions around the age seven. And actually, that's what the research shows is that it's around the age of seven that children start forming their money beliefs. They start to understand that money is an important part of their life. They see their parents shopping, they they they see that it's uh that it's that it has an effect, and um, and they start asking questions. And the problem is the conversations are not always taking place uh in families or in schools around money because money is still a little bit of a taboo. If it's taking place, it's not really necessarily a structured, sort of informed, balanced decision. So maybe parents will have inherited their own money beliefs often because we didn't have maybe these books available to us growing up, and so they won't feel necessarily comfortable to have the discussion, but they will pass on anyway their own money beliefs to their to their children. And um so I think the thing is that you can't you can avoid having the conversation at that age, but the children will start forming their relationship with money subconsciously, and that that's gonna influence them for the rest of their lives then. They're gonna think money is good and you need loads of it, or they're gonna think money is bad and it's a source of stress. And you know, it that's when it starts. So, what I was trying to do with the book is sort of give everyone a tool to have the conversation uh in a bit of a neutral way. Um, it's not good or bad, it's it's just a tool, and it depends how what you want to do with it. And it as you said before, the parents don't necessarily always feel comfortable. So it was it was something for them as well to to be able to have this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Yeah, well, that's fantastic. And you know, before I close out, I just want to point out and you know, just mention the fact that you're including donate as one of the pillars of the book. And you know, I mean, that is your whole uh, you know, emphasis is on impact. And I think that's something that's oftentimes missing when we talk about our money is impact. So, you know, maybe before we close out, is just tell people, you know, how they can really think about impact with their money. I know we've talked about sustainable finance, but the value, um, you know, and the, you know, I don't know if joy is quite the right word, about knowing at least the positive feelings you can have when you have impact with your money.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah, I mean, I think donating, you know, the way I cover it uh also in the book is that it's not just about donating your money. I mean, there's millions of different ways you can donate. You can donate your time, your energy, your you can donate things you don't need. I mean, all of that has a positive impact. And in fact, wealth is not just a concept that's linked to money. You can be wealthy from your connections, your friendships, your experiences. It's it's not just limited to money. Um, so I think it's it's uh again, it comes back to you know to this idea of value, and value is something different than just price, right? It's it's much broader. Um, but we can contribute in so many different ways, and and making small donations is one aspect. Um, me personally, I decided, for example, the book, all the royalties that I'm getting, which is not a lot, but I'm I'm using that to to donate to um to organizations that are that are working in this space of uh financial education and other NGOs that are working on more humanitarian um issues. Um so yeah, it's my way a little bit also of making sure I can have an impact with the book is to use those royalties to pay forward uh for these these causes that are that I care about as well. So by buying the book, you can have an impact.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

That that is awesome. And I'm so glad you're talking about this. So recently I became an impact philanthropic advisor, which is a new certification in the States. And so for advisors around the world who are listening to this, um, you know, or financial coaches, is you can become an impact philanthropic advisor, learn about the different ways uh the people who can have an impact. So when you're guiding your clients in your community, you know, there's sixties, time, treasure, talent. I can't remember all six offhand, but you know, in the impact philanthropic advisor, you can learn how to help your community and clients have impact because there are so many different ways to do it and so many tools out there. Absolutely.

unknown 26:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

And one of the things I also try and cover in the book for the kids is you know the difference between direct impact and more systemic impact. So, you know, you you can choose to support a cause where you can really see the impact on the ground right away. It's very close to the beneficiaries. Uh, like uh we talk about sort of plastic pollution in the book as an example, and you can you know support NGOs that are helping pick up plastic from the beach so that the the turtles can nest again. Uh that's very concrete, or you can decide to support some organizations that are negotiating the big treaty, the big global treaty to to prevent plastic pollution. And that has obviously not a direct impact, but a you know global impact if we can push this forward. So I think it's also showing that you know you can act at many different levels and it all adds up and it's all worth worthwhile.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah, I love that. And so for everybody watching and listening, there will also be a link to Impact Philanthropic Advisors. Or if you want to learn more, you can uh reach out to me through my website or through LinkedIn. Um so uh Cecile, to wrap up, I have what's called the get ready hot take trio, and these are three quick questions I ask all of my guests. The first one is what's one money myth that you're trying to break?

SPEAKER_01 28:03

I think the one for me, the one that personally resonates with me the most is this idea that you uh have to be good at math to be good with money management. Um, I think we kind of tend to associate finance with you know mathematics, uh, and we probably underestimate that uh money and finance has a lot to do with emotional intelligence as well. Um so that's the one thing I'm trying to get across to people a lot is that it's not about being a math uh genius or wizard to be able to manage your finance properly. It's also just knowing your goals, your sort of North Star, and and understanding enough that you can navigate a little bit the space. But this is completely understandable once you strip all the jargon out of the industry, and and then being consistent and and accept that you're on a learning curve, but um no mass PhD required.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

That's fantastic. I I think that's wonderful advice, and it it is a continuous journey. Um, you know, everybody that I've had on the show and that I know in personal finance is always still learning. And if you're not still learning, you're stuck. Um, so let's get out the time machine next. If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now about money, what advice would you give your younger self?

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, I mean, definitely I would have uh advised myself to start investing earlier. I think investment is is something that you know can feel a little bit scary. And I see it now when I do workshop with um with young people, and especially for girls for some reasons. Uh boys don't seem to be so um concerned, so maybe they're more risk takers and you know they tend to be sort of more inclined to invest, but girls tend to be very much holding back and they have this attitude, and I think my younger self had this attitude of as long as I don't understand it fully, I'm not gonna go there. Um, and I think that attitude stayed with me for a long time. Um, and I think you know it took me a long time, even working in finance, to acknowledge that I could make my first step and dip my own toes in the water, and not with huge amounts, but and with and whatever I knew was good enough already. Uh, I could always learn more, and especially I think if you have long-term convictions about certain things, if you think, okay, this is this is the way forward, and these trends they will play out over the next 10, you know, 20 years, no doubt about it. There's going to be some ups and downs in the meantime, but but this is the way forward, um, then you can feel reasonably comfortable to invest a little bit in those trends and just be patient enough to see it play out.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Fantastic. And you know, studies show that women are better investors than men over the long term. And a part of that is, you know, men can be overconfident in their abilities, while women tend to take more time and to be a little more thoughtful with their investing.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yes, that's that's right. I've seen those studies.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

So, you know, for the women out there, is you can do it. And there's a great resource, at least in the States, called Invest for Better. And I'll put a link in the show notes. So they have investing clubs, it's a nonprofit. They have investing clubs and courses just for women. And um, I also linked my episode with the founder of Invest for Better, Janine Furpo. So for the women out there, if you want to learn more about investing, it's a great way to start investing with other women. Um, Cecile, to uh wrap up, what is your number one tip to change the way we think about money?

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Oh, just the way we think about it, I think we need to talk about it more and break these taboos a bit. Um, I think we're um, you know, if we had more conversations around money with friends and and family, um, then it we would demystify it a little bit and it would become a little bit less scary because we would realize that we're all, you know, struggling with the same questions and the same concepts, and we're all making our own uh experiences and learnings along the way. And I think by sharing that we would we would change the way we think about money and see it as something that's a little bit less scary and more accessible to everyone.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Fantastic. And that's great advice for anything, is you know, bringing it out and talking about things tends to reduce the fear around things, is you know, having it out in the open is oftentimes you find, oh, this isn't quite as scary as I thought it was.

unknown 32:48

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

So Cecile, where can people learn more about you, your work, and pick up a copy of your money and the world?

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Uh well, uh LinkedIn is the best place to find me and connect with me. And I'm glad to connect with anyone who's interested in this topic. Um, also follow a little bit of the work that I'm doing in this space and with the pension funds. Um, the book is available in all good bookstores uh in the US as well as in Europe and Canada and other places. You can also find it online uh through your usual online bookstore platforms. Um and uh the book has its own website as well, uh, called uh Nora's Treasure. Nora is the little girl at the beginning uh of the story. Uh so nora's treasure.com uh gives you more information about uh the book and and the story behind the book as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Fantastic. Well, thanks. And for everybody watching and listening, there will be links to uh the Nora's Treasure website, Cecile's LinkedIn profile, uh, so you can get in touch with her and follow her work. Um, Cecile, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

I could mention actually Yeah, sorry, on the website you'll find uh some activities to do at home with your kids around this topic of money. So it's a bit of a companion to the book as well. You can download a couple of uh exercise sheets. Uh they're available there for free. And then there are like little exercises you can do to uh to to have a chat with your kids about the concepts.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Fantastic. That's a great resource. So yeah, definitely check out Norris Treasure uh website. And Cecile, thanks again for joining us on Get Ready Before Life Happens.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Thanks a lot, Tony. It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yeah, and thank you, everyone, as always, for tuning in to this episode of Get Ready Before Life Happens. If you learned something today to change the way you think about money, please be sure to subscribe and to share with a friend. You can go to my website at Tony Stewart.com to join the get ready movement and receive my newsletter and other resources. And if you'd like to support the podcast, you can now do so at buymeacoffee.com slash Tony Stewart. Until next time, let's change the way we think about money.