Tim Abbott Interviews Clark Woodmansee, winner of The 83rd Klussendorf Award

In this episode of The Evolution of the Great Cow by DairyBusiness News and DairyVoice, Tim Abbott of Showbox Sires talks with Clark Woodmansee, recent winner of the Klussendorf Award. They discuss their combined passion for the industry and Tim dives in to Clark’s history, farm, and some of Woodmansee’s top cows in the industry. Clark Woodmansee tells us what he attributes to his success as a breeder and farmer, plus what advice he would give to someone that is starting in the business. Here’s a hint… put yourself in a position to be lucky.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

You're listening to Dairy Voice by Dairy Business News, a podcast exclusively for the dairy industry.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

One of our sponsors of the Dairy Voice Podcast is National DHIA. NDHIA ensures information accuracy and represents their members' interests. They are the direct voice for the dairy information industry. To find out more, go to DHIA.org.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

This episode is brought to you by DRMS, a trusted provider of dairy information and decision tools. As a nonprofit with deep ties to NC State and Iowa State Universities, we've spent over 65 years serving the dairy industry, delivering research-backed software, standardized data, and exceptional customer support. Our dedicated team works alongside producers and consultants to ensure they get the training, tools, and insights they need. We turn complex herd data into clear, actionable insights that help producers and consultants make informed decisions every day through solutions built in collaboration with the dairy industry. Learn more at drms.org.

SPEAKER_04 1:22

Welcome to the newest edition of the Showbox Sires series, The Evolution of the Great Cow, where we talk about the process of developing cattle through genetics, management, and also marketing. But one big piece of our industry that we all love to talk about is the people behind great cows. And we can never underestimate the value of the people behind the cows that make them great. The cows are there for us to develop, and we are all stewards of those cows. And today our guest is one of the best stewards of land and cattle that I've ever come across in my career. He's one of my great friends, and today it's a true honor for me to introduce Clark Woodmancy from Preston, Connecticut to her podcast. Welcome, Clark. Thank you. That was uh very nice of you to say all those things. We we have a good time on this, but uh it's always great to uh be on the podcast with a friend, and that that's what makes these fun. And I think uh Clark is known throughout the world and his wife Lois for the kind of people that they are and what they represent. Clark, I'm gonna walk through some questions so we can learn a little more about you and your passion for this business because there's nobody with more passion uh than you uh for breeding cattle. So tell us about Clark as a young man, frankly, if you can remember back that far, how you grew up, about your parents uh and your interests.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Well, it is tough to remember some things. I'm the third generation here on this farm. Uh my grandfather moved here, and that was in the early 1900s, night like 1923 is when my dad was born, and he was born here on the farm. He milked cows, then my dad did take it over, milking cows, and my dad and mom, who was also a local gal here. My dad and mom was very good at milking cows or whatever, and he actually ran a commission sale too. And at one time he milked as many as 150 here. He started a parlor, one of the earliest parlors in Connecticut, and that type of stuff. So I grew up here. My interest was in cows and in farming. I started, you know, throughout high school, I was interested in sports, I also was interested in cows and farming and that type of stuff. But then uh going to college, I would thought I wanted to be a veterinarian, and uh I didn't last very long in college with all the other stuff I had to take, so I ended up partnering up with my dad, eventually buying him out. At that time he was ready to semi-retire. He was busy doing a few other things, so it worked out very well for me. You know, at that time the farm consisted of about 150 acres. When we started, we only milked a few cows, he was only milking a few cows at the time because he was developing a beach club also that he had started, even my mom had started. So it really was a good opportunity for me to step in and start doing things.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

You know, one of the if you attribute some of your success, like at some point your dad got out of the way, right? Like it's hard for us to get out of the way, but he got out of the way and let you lead. And uh, I think that's something that that comes hard for us, but you your time is right. You you referenced your dad was trying to do other businesses and it opened the door for you. Is that is that kind of how it went?

SPEAKER_01 5:01

After he got done running the commission sales and trying to milk cows home, he was a little tired of Hyde helped. He wasn't a good people person or whatever, and uh it did open doors for me. And at that time, there was money in making milk, which was something that would have been in the late 70s, early eighties, and guys our age that can remember that time, the margins were were very good. And that was at a time when uh there were a lot of uh 60 cow dairies, seven seventy cow dairies that could survive and and make a good living. Um of course things have changed, you know, since that time, but it did open up a lot of doors for me, and there was a lot of opportunity around here. At that time, our town, I I live in Preston, Connecticut, there were probably 30 operating dairies that were shipping milk. Now there's three. The atmosphere has changed an awful lot. And obviously for my children, I think I grew up in a better time and a more enthusiastic time for the dairy industry and had more opportunities as far as that goes than than my son does now.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

Well, I think that's something we all face, and and uh transition and how we how we go about the next generation and keeping everybody hungry and and uh fed at the same time are are two two very different pieces. But I think if people ever been to Woodmancy Farms, yeah, you're not in a prolific dairy area. You're quite peoply down there. Tell them a little bit about the lay of the land around where you are today.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Like I say, at one time we were, you know, all our neighbors were farmers, uh, now very few. Uh the state has preserved, you know, some of the farms or whatever, so that will stay as open space. But certainly a lot more people and a lot less cows. Our fields are, you know, when I go out west or to the Midwest or even western New York, you know, I know guys that come here kind probably wonder why we do it. Because our fields are, you know, if we if someone has a 50 acre field around here that's flat and no stones, that's a pretty big deal. That's pretty common in in a lot of other places. It does, the ground that we do have does grow really good crops, and it makes it very, as far as for growing corn and that type of stuff, we we can grow corn and that very good. It's just that not that much agricultural land around. As time goes on, it's we're more in a suburban area area.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

This is an interesting question. Um, and it uh we didn't talk about this, but your land you can sell by the square inch there, basically, in in that area.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

It's still location, location, location. I was fortunate enough to buy a piece of property in 1976 that was close to an interstate, and it was a farm uh that a lady in in Scotland had owned, or they would lived here. She ended up moving back to Scotland, and it was a great opportunity for me. I actually drove tractors, it was seven miles away, drove tractors on the highway, on the interstate highway, to get there back and forth. And couldn't ever do that today. I eventually sold that that piece of property, and that was a big help. I bought a couple other farms with with that proceeds and and uh moved forward. But as far as the land goes around here, there is a lot of pressure for building lots and that type of stuff, and it seems to go in cycles, but right now it seems to be pretty, you know, pretty high. A building lot around here is around eighty thousand to a hundred thousand dollars, depending on the location, and that would be it for two acres.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

This episode is brought to you by DRMS. DRMS is excited to launch the Fresh Cow Index, FCI, a new metric within the Herd HQ platform. FCI is featured in the Fresh Focus Transition Cow reports inside Dairy Depot and will be available in DART in the future. FCI combines 25 individual cow variables from DHIA test day data and CDCB genetic evaluations into a single, easy-to-understand score for evaluating transition cow performance. A score of 100 indicates expected performance. Cows above 100 are outperforming predictions, while those below 100 are more likely to underperform and face early culling risk. Producers and consultants can use FCI to evaluate month-over-month changes in feeding and management, understand herd level transition success, and drill down into Cow Compass for detailed cow level insights. HerdHQ. See what's happening in your herd. Learn more at drms.org slash herd hq slash what dash is dash herd HQ.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

So my question, um and and I think I know the answer to this. Why didn't you pick up and move to western New York or to Kansas or to Wisconsin where dairying is easier and you're not working in 50 acre farms? Why why didn't you leave?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Oh, mainly because of family. Before I had sold that other piece of property, I did go to Virginia and look at a couple different dairies down there. It certainly appealed to me and all that kind of stuff, but I ended up finding land north of here that was you know pretty good when I say north of here, still in Connecticut, and and decided to go that route. Uh but mainly family, family was the main reason for not, you know, totally picking up and and trying something new.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

And I and I bring that question because anybody that's ever been there, the beautiful old New England stone walls and the beautiful maple trees and the deer running through your pasture, that's ingrained in your personality. And I I say it kind of as a joke, why didn't you leave? And I know, and you know, there's no way Clark Woodmancy could ever leave Preston, Connecticut. Is that I'm not real far off, am I?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

No, you're not real far off, you know, especially now. You know, maybe at one time, but not not really far off.

unknown 11:31

No.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

So for our listeners, just a quick you said you started with 150 acres and a few cows that your dad had. What's Woodmancy Farm look like today?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Today, the the home farm here in Preston is around 500 acres, uh, 200 in corn, 150 in hay and some alfalfa. And the balance would be in pasture and woodland. Milking around 130 and probably 300 head total. Uh, we do do IVF right here on the farm. We're we're a satellite location for Bovatec, uh, which we do once a month. Sometimes that's a good thing. Sometimes I do a bunch of cows and I wonder why I do. But, anyways, it's it's uh overall, you know, that's been a positive as far as merchandising and and that type of stuff. My crew consists of the the main guy on my crew, is my son, and he's clocked the fourth, works very hard on the on the farm doing all different things. Probably if it wasn't for him being here and being as dedicated to the cattle, I don't I certainly wouldn't be doing it at this level. Uh I'd probably still be doing it, but who knows at what level. Uh also have a young guy with me, at least 34 now, that uh does a lot of the crop work. And then we do have Pedro and Selvin that have been here for a while, and and they're very good also.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

Well, that's great. You've got a great team, and I have the work level, the workload at Woodmancy Farm, the way you take care of animals, uh, your crew does a heck of a job because they work really hard just like you do. It's it's a labor of love. So you talked about Clarkey. Um tell us a little more, tell us about the rest of your family.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Of course, I gotta speak about Lois. She did not grow up in a farm environment or farming at all, but from the next town over. And but she has adapted very well, as Tim, as you know. And she has done, you know, all the books and uh registration of calves and a lot of stuff that I probably don't even know. But in any event, she's been, you know, quite an asset to have your wife stand behind you and and go into some of these things. The rest of the crew team and stuff is is very good and throughout the years. They've changed some. I had a f a couple different guys that worked for me that uh just great guys, and and also gotten a lot of information and stuff from local people. Getting back to how I got interested in showing and stuff like this, Blossom Acres was just up the road for me, and that would be a guy by the name of Jim Brewster who showed a lot of cows and did a lot of things with cows oh back more in the 70s and 80s. His passion and stuff helped me get going to a certain extent. You know, we also had neighbors around here like Herb Calman, that's a very old name, you know, that some people might recognize or might not. Whittier Farms, Lost Buy, R.E.W. Farm, and then there was the Augus. And my dad would always go down to the Augus when they had a sale and tell me what some of the cows were bringing. And it made me scratch my head, no doubt. That was some of the things that that really interested me in getting started in in more the purebred business. Because at the time there was even a time when my dad dried all the cows off during the summer and worked down a lake, so they were great cows. He wasn't into the breeding aspect, but but seeing some of these other dairies or what they were doing, I figured that I'd like to give that a go. So that's how that kind of went. And uh the first sale that I had was actually 1987, and that was who came around selling semen and and who was kind of an influence and and saw the kind of cattle that I had and helped me merchandise and sales and stuff at first was Bruce Whittier and Alan Lilly. They helped push me along quite a bit. The first sale that I had was in 1987. We sold 200 head and they averaged a couple thousand bucks. And at that time, that was a pretty big deal, and I was only 34 years old. And that was I could pay off all my debt, and I still had some money in the in the bank, so to speak, and and it was a real it was an eye-opener for me and a lot of my neighbors too. So that was it. I had another sale in 1996 with with Tom Morris. In 2006, I sold a group of cows to Doug Nelson in 2021. A couple guys by the name of Tim Abbott and Chris Hill had a sale for me. I don't know, I think they're alliance members. Something. I don't know. I don't know what kind of group that is, whether that alliance came up. I always think it's some kind of cult or something.

SPEAKER_04 16:41

You've had two interesting teams. You've had Whittier and Lily, and now Abbott and Hill, so you've seen it all.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

So now uh in in the spring of 2025, we had a uh sale, a combination sale, and Tim and Chris ran that also. They've all been very successful. I think they're very important to merchandising your cattle. I mean, if you're gonna do this, you have to sell your cows, you have to sell, you know, be able to sell your cows or or be able to merchandise your cows. Yes, I do a lot of it for the labor of love, but also it is another source of income that certainly on those early sales and these here, you know, it's very important.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

Well, and and I think for our listeners, Clark, you know, one thing I wanted to bring to our listeners was you have made a good living out of buying great cattle, breeding them, and having sales, merchandising them. And you talked about the one that you did when you were 34 that helped you pay debt. It is another source of revenue, breeding cattle, selling breeding cattle from Woodmancy farms, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Definitely another source of income. There's a different landscape out there now, which makes it, I think, a little bit more difficult as as far as the purebred cow goes, and that's because let's take New England and eastern New York, like the first sale that I had in '87, you know, most of those cattle went local. And there were that many breeders, and it would be nothing to have, you know, a couple hundred people at your sale, and they would be mostly local. Whereas now, of course, the internet, you have cow buyer and and it goes over, which is a really good thing. But there's nowhere near the kind of market for your cat for your cattle, in my mind, is there used to be. And there's always a market for the elite, really good ones, it seems, but regular what I call commercial purebred cow, that market fluctuates more, but there's a lot of big dairies or whatever that really don't care about, you know, whether they're registered or not. If they're milking a lot of cows, they care more about having a good udder and and how she looks and and go from there. The papers aren't as important, I guess, is what I'm trying to say, to some of those people in the area that we live in now. And that that makes it, you know, when I look at my son or future generations, it makes it a little harder for them to have a sale and to feel confident, customers to buy the cattle and that type of stuff. We've just gone through a time where cattle, you know, are worth quite a bit of money and and the beef prices were really good and that and that makes it easier and more fun. But there are times on those elite cattle that it's maybe they're just not worth as much as we think they are sometimes, you know. Who knows?

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah, and the margins, the margins in tough times are are better. And I'm I'm gonna correct you, Mark. I hope we're we haven't just gone through that time. I hope we're still in the middle of that time, right? Yes, yes. Yeah. All right, me too. We all we all hope. We these are the good old days of of of uh having value on our cows. So you yeah, you've built a great reputation, but people buy from people. And we Chris and I just ran your sale in conjunction with Peter Vale and and Jason Lloyd. Um, I would say maybe dollars-wise, as successful a sale as you've had for what you sold, but people came out to support you because they know the kind of cows. What advice would you give people looking to have their own sale on what kind of cattle to sell there?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

It it really helps to have you know some name brand cattle and to sell cattle that people have seen. That's where showing it was a big asset to me, having these sales. People see the cattle, so when you have daughters of them, or some of the same cattle or or whatever, that they uh can relate to them. And having also name brand families, you know, and some of the cows that I've owned, the cows were popular, they've seen them, they've done well, and it it really helps your sale and it boosts your sale quite a lot for those genetics to get out there. You have to be prepared to sell your best cattle. If you're having a dispersal, of course you're gonna sell them all, but even if you're having a parcel sale, you know, you may not sell some older brood cow or whatever, but you've got to sell some of your good, you know, really good cattle. If you ever plan to have another sale, you've got to do it.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

And I would say for our listeners, I've run two of your sales, one with 100 head at your farm and one with 50 of yours. And Chris and I literally went to the farm and picked from the entire herd, and you never said no on an animal. Uh they're all in, as long as long as they were reproductively right and all that jazz. I think there's a real lesson there that the reason Clark and Lois Woodmancy are so popular in the industry is because you do it right. You you don't, there's no holds barred, and I think that's important. I would you say that's part of the success story?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

No, no question, that's part of the success story, also. We try and sell the right ones, and and that's an you know an important thing to do. Stand behind them or whatever, and and go from And hope they do well for the people that buy them because that's all the better, also.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

I'm gonna get to we haven't talked about cows much. Actually, let me back up. We missed one thing that you're gonna get in trouble for. You have two beautiful daughters, and we didn't talk about that yet. Let's not forget them. Um, just and the and their families, real quickly, Clark.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

And Lauren and teaches school in a neighboring town and lives in a neighboring town, and she and Luke have two boys, so I have two grandsons, Noah and Seth. Uh matter of fact, today is Noah's birthday. He turns 19. So that's an experience. Lauren is a social worker. She's on her own right now. She's married to Chris. He's an electrician. They have one daughter, Amelia, and uh Clarkey has one daughter, Kendall. They're all successful in what they do. They all support the dairy, the the two girls and and the guys. Lucas helped out at the sales and that type of stuff, and Chris also. But as far as being day-to-day, neither one of them are actively involved. I think honestly, I think they make more money doing what they do than what I could pay them for sure. So I know that for a fact. In any event, so it's probably better that way. And they neither the son-in-laws were raised in a farm environment or whatever, so their interest is not you know keen as keen enough to want to do that, but they're also very supportive.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

Great recap of the family, and I and I want our listeners, you know, they see you and Lois at the shows and sales, and and I don't think they know enough about your family, but if you get to meet them, they're quite a crew. So, Clark, now for a couple minutes, I want to talk about some of the cows you've had. You've owned world champions, you've owned more Eastern State champion than maybe anybody I know. Uh, you've won at the Royal Winter Fair. Just tell us two or three of your cows that uh mean the most to you. Uh, I know a couple of them, but tell our tell our listeners about some of the stories, maybe from the beginning, uh, you know, of a cow or two that started you, and on to some of your favorite ones of recent.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Beginning cows that really caught my interest or whatever was was Woodman C's Triple Threat Threat La Leader. She was a cow that won a spring show. I'm not even sure what year it was, but uh Joan would have been coin at the time, but Joan Seidel and Martha Seifert were helping me at the shows, and she she won the show, and Mike Diva was the judge. That certainly made a big difference. I mean, I'd shown at state shows and stuff like that. I ended up selling part of that cow to Jim Wright and Maggie Murphy at the time. And anyway, she was she was a big influence right there, and and then uh I got to know Cooner a little bit in the meantime, but anyways, he led me on to a lone pine jet bianca from the parodies. And she ended up being grand at New York State Fair and grand at uh the Biggie, and then uh Reserve All-American, four-year-old. And then she was nominated as a five-year-old, also. But she really put me and her in the spotlight a little bit more and really created quite a bit of interest. The early ones, other early ones would have been a uh highlight hot stuff and black star jinx, whatever. But the first really great car would be Hazel. My good friend Bob Fitzimmons, who was one of the influencers or whatever, he was working for Carousel at the time, and he had bought her earlier. Carousel was having a sale, and he had told me that he thought she was, you know, a cow with a really, really big future. In the meantime, uh Mike Dever was in there, and uh the next thing I know, I get a call from Howard Binder saying we ought to buy that cow. We bought the cow. Tommy Morris was also a partner on the cow. The story began with Hazel. She she went to Mike Deva's at first, and of course, Hazel has quite a story, and there's quite a few names on her paper as far as different people that have owned her. But she was the first really, really good cow. She later sold at Glamourview sale. Tommy Morris got out, and that's when Peter Vale got in, and Peter's been a great friend and partner, and so on goes goes the story. The the Hazel story, Hazel had we flushed Hazel Hazel conventionally, actually for a bull contract to Goldwyn. And uh she had five heifers. Wouldn't you know? Anyways, one of them happened to be Hattie that uh tried to sell on a couple different occasions and she got sick out at Madison and then something else. In any event, she ended up I ended up buying a partner's out, she ended up being here and going 96 and being best bred and owned at World Dairy Expo. So she's of course my favorite homebred cow. But other cows that you know I really think a lot of be Black Sea. Tim certainly has had a lot to do with, and Chris Chris founder, and Tim and so they have a lot to do with her, and and of course Tommy Cole and Peter. There's also Lotto, who Brian Craswell found up in the islands. You know, and these cows, you know, all lived here for a while, and that's what makes it also a little bit special. Hezbollah is another cow that Peter and I bought into with Tim, made a lot of embryos, bred a lot of really good cows. Uh Cameron is also another one. She ended up being champion at the Royal, and and Lotto also lived here, and she uh ended up being champion at the Royal, and that would have been after after I had owned her, but she was she was always a favorite around here, and hopefully some of her offspring or bulls in in the future will will turn out.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

That's quite a list. I mean, most of us dream of touching one or two good cows in our life, and you just walk through from Hazel to Lotto to Cameron to Hez to Blexi. The the list goes on and on. But maybe none any more important to any breeder than than Hattie, the cow that you bred had your prefix or your name on as the breeder. And I think you know, we all talk about having Grand at Expo. Really, the most coveted prize at Expo should be, and probably is for breeders, the best bred and owned cow in North America at that show. Tell me what that was like the day that that cow won that award.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Well, certainly that was that was great. Especially that week, Hattie had had a little bit of a rough week at Expo or whatever, and and Kuna did a really good job of getting her ready for that. But it's certainly very special to have Best Bread known. It's it's something that every breeder shoots for, and and you're just lucky enough to be able to do something like that or have something like that. I wouldn't say it falls into your lap, but it to have that happen is a pretty really neat thing and a really great feeling. And and I really hope that there's something here at some point in time that that it could maybe happen again. You certainly h shoot for it, whether it will or not, who knows. But one thing when you talk about uh uh breeding cattle, what really helps an awful lot, and and I know you're gonna maybe ask what kind of advice I give to younger breeders and stuff, and that is once we got hazel and hazel started breeding and hazel bred true, and with flushing and IVF and now when you start with really good cows like that, it's a lot I wouldn't say easier, but you have a lot better chance of breeding the really good ones. There's no no question that these good cows that transmit well uh are really special cows and special families, and you can you can really see what you do. And the bulls that we have today, like like Hattie is a Goldwyn daughter out of Hazel, and Golden's a bull that you know he makes everybody look smart. Kind of what happened there. I mean, you do have to do your homework and that type of stuff. Delta Lama right now is is you know really at the forefront in a little bit of a crossover bull that's doing a doing a good job. But uh those kind of bulls you when you use them on these type of cows that that we're talking about really sets you apart. That Herb Calman told me he says, buy the very best pedigreed and good cow that you can buy because it will pay off in the end. And of course, everybody's looking for the bargain and the sleeper or whatever, and there's freaks out there that turn out good, but really you you need that pedigree and you need those good cow families because it seems like that's where most of your really good cows are coming from.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Well, I think I think really well said, because everybody had access to the same Goldwyn semen you used, but not everybody bred Hattie, because not everybody had hazel. And isn't that it that goes back to what you were told by one of your mentors that you start with something good on the bottom, uh you're gonna get something good out the other end, and that that's why we breed cattle. So, and I would I would also add chime in here for our listeners, you know, as Clarkey walked through this, he mentioned a bunch of names, and anybody in this industry would say Clark and Lois Woodmancy are the greatest partners that any of us have ever had. I would say Sharon and I would say that, but look the list of who's who that have been Clarkey and Lois' partner Tom Morris, Howard Binder, Peter Vale, Bill Taylor, Peter Lane, um, Mike Deaver, Tommy and Kelly Cole. Uh there's something to be said about breeding cattle, but there's something to be said about people and and hooking up with that. How important have partners been to you in your world?

SPEAKER_01 32:28

You left out Tim Abbott for sure.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

I could have said Sharon.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Yeah, there you go. They're very important for a number of different reasons. Obviously, we all have our expertise, and to be able to partner up and be able to combine your expertise with someone else's expertise, you're doubling up on your chances. A cow like Hazel, on the first go-around, I could afford being a partner on Hazel. On the Glam Review going around without other partners, it it it gets to be a little tougher economically also. So there's a it's a two-way street. And and then when you combine the expertise of uh Mike Deaver or Tom Cole and and uh some of these uh extreme you know people that focus solely on uh breeding cattle and taking care of cattle and getting them ready for a show, that's a really, really big asset. And it it and it makes a big difference on whether you're merchandising or just the care and breeding of them and and all that stuff. You know, one thing that I didn't say earlier is we milk there's 130 cows on test here.

unknown 33:46

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

And it's not always easy, but I try all the time to have the milk check pay the bills, foundation bills, which is labor, feed, repairs, and that type of stuff. The purebred end of it is a is a big asset for improvements and stuff like that. But there's you know, when you start talking on these high-profile cows, it helps to have partners to spread the risk, and to also you're able to get in on some of these cows and some of their genetics without paying the full price. And that's a that's a big asset.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

I think it was I think that's great advice. And I I want to, as the host, I want to re-emphasize to our listeners two things you said there. One, Clarke, you and I talk about it a lot. Find partners that are good at what you're not. That truly does help the partnership. The way you've done that is masterful because you connect with somebody that can help you get to where you want to go uh down the road. So I I just thought that was, you know, I think that's a powerful statement to our people. You know, you wonder why people have partners. And and one is so you can buy a little better cow, maybe. Two is so you can get some other expertise and say nothing about the friendships, because I know your greatest friends in the world, part of them are your cow friends, and that that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

No question about that. It's pretty pretty neat to have that.

SPEAKER_04 35:14

So on the on the same topic, we're bouncing around a little bit, but I want to talk about friends and the business. Uh, one of the great, great days for me at World Area Expo in my life in the past 30 years was uh uh when I was honored with an honorary Klusendorf membership, and get to every year I get to walk into the middle of that ring. I don't know why, but I do. And this year you received that same honor. You put a lot of stress in my life because I was responsible to get you to the ring when the presentation was made, so you heard it and you went missing. And I yelled at my wife and I screamed at Lois. Other people screamed at me, but you put a heck of a lot of stress on us. But from that point, you were there, we got you there. Tell us what was going on in your mind when you're sitting in the stands for the most prestigious award in our industry given to you by your peers. You're you heard the story of Park Woodmancy come up.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Pretty surreal. I still can't believe it. I could get choked up pretty easy. I'm glad I didn't have to give a speech at that time. It's really it's a humbling honor, no question about it. It's the uh highest award that I've ever gotten. I did not put myself in the same category as as the previous guys, you know, before this. It really is a great surprise, no, no question about it. I I know I've told you and other people that when it got announced that Sharon was on the side of me and and a few other people, and it's just like holy smokes. You know, it catches you so off guard uh that of course walking down there, you know, people are looking at me and they're still talking about me on the PA there and stuff, and and I couldn't tell you a word that they said. You know, I mean it's you're totally blank. You just go through the motions and it and it's still it's still something that I I celebrate almost every day and and still think that it's unbelievable. And really do look forward to being able to uh present it next year and and to uh to someone and and uh and very honored when I look at the list of people that have won it before me. I think it was very neat that Tommy won it, you know, the year before me, and he was the one to present it to me. Uh that was neat. I can't say enough about the friends and the people and and knowing that they felt that strong about me. It was a pretty neat thing. And it was also very neat back here in Preston, they put it on a community Facebook page or whatever, and and it it was very honoring, and it was very nice, you know, that they did that because it made the people that drive by the farm that I know, you know, or whatever, but they have no idea what I do. But that opened their eyes to what I do, and it and it really made it pretty neat, and it and it was very uh it was very much a positive response. But of course, you know, in the cow world, the people that that you talk to and and appreciate that, it's just un it's unbelievable is what it is. And and certainly thank everybody that had something to do with it for sure. Very honored by it.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

Well, that's great, that's a great recap uh of that. To wrap up a couple more things, then we've got some fun questions. We've been pretty serious for you and I, frankly. I mean, I feel like I do have something else, though. We certainly do have a couple more important questions, then we'll get to a few more fun things. But just Clarky, before we go to some of the more fun things, I I do think it's important to tell our listeners, young, old, I don't care. You know, our our mentors are older, our mentors are younger. What is the advice? You started down this road a bit ago. What is the advice you give to any of us about being successful in this business?

SPEAKER_01 39:18

That's what I was gonna say we we should really talk about a little bit, because I like to say that it's not really luck, but it's putting yourself to be in a lucky position, to be in a good position. And by that I mean one, you have to have a good attitude. You also have to take a risk now and then. Somebody that says, Well, I've never lost money on a cow, well, they didn't own very many cows.

SPEAKER_04 39:43

They need to buy some with us.

unknown 39:45

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Time it has a lot to do with it. But don't be afraid to to take a little risk and to put yourself in a position to be lucky. And that's means quite a bit as far as that. Use good bulls, be in a position to be progressive and and ahead of things, and also try and team up with good people or watch what other people do. I I I always was very good at trying to watch whatever people other people did, and trying to have your eyes open for an opportunity and see how they did it and and try and repeat it. So that's some of the advice that that I would give is put yourself in a position to be successful. If you're always kind of being close to it or whatever, you know, you just need to take that next step.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

I I hope our listeners write down luck because we all talk about luck. And and you say it's not luck, it's putting yourself in a lucky position. And I think that's I think that's pretty powerful. I think there's something to be gained out of that. You've given advice to us, you talked a lot about your dad, and certainly he was a mentor. You've referenced several other people. Give us two or three people that shape Clark into who he is today.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Horace Bacchus is one I haven't recognized or talked about. And and he did the he read the pedigrees on the my first two sales, and he was he was very good. He was always very supportive. Anybody that knows Horace, I don't have to say it or whatever, but he was so enthusiastic and progressive and and uh complimentary of what you were doing that he certainly helped on an awful lot. Early on, Cooner has has also been uh a good friend and well, he is a good friend, and and pretty good at looking out for my interests. He's taking cattle, care of cattle at my shows, at the sales, watching my backside. Uh it's a little bit funny because I spoke about Lolita when she was grand, and and I didn't know Cooner, and Cooner was working for Lylehaven at the time, and um that's how I got in with Bob Fitzsimmons, and and they were all Bob's also a mentor too, and you'd watch what he does. But when she was winning that that day, we were waiting to go in for grand champion, and and Lolita she she ended up going to the bathroom, and we didn't have anything right there. And Cooner and Lyle Have Bob were standing right there, and they didn't help us a bit at that time. So it was kind of neat to to say, you know, now we're the greatest of friends or whatever, but at the time of competition and before we knew each other, it was was pretty neat that uh held back a little bit at that time. But those those are people there, and and of course, and earlier on or whatever, Howard getting me to be part of Hazel and that type of stuff is really good. And and as time went on, and I got uh to know a guy by the name of Tim Abbott, pretty good. He certainly is a mentor and a guide. He and Chris were wherever let me in on Balexi and and uh had options on her, Hezbollah, you know, and those were pretty big tickets and and pretty pretty important to uh to be part of that. We talked about people that you partner with and the people that you know, and on my end too, it's an honor to be recognized for that award, but also to be recognized that people would want to be a partner with me and that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

And I know you could go on forever talking about the people that influenced you, and and uh I you know again, I think think your career speaks for itself. So thanks for all the good advice. I think part of what we try to do in this podcast with dairy business is help educate people that want to be successful in this business. And Clark, I I have no question that that was that that was the case. So I'm gonna move to something a little more fun. Some things people don't know about you. You're uh a pretty passionate deer hunter. Tell us a little about some of your Uh passion there?

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Grew up hunting deer, and uh I do have quite a passion for it. I wouldn't say it's as strong as it was when I was in my twenties and thirties and forties, but it's it's still quite a passion. And it's unique to the area. There's probably more deer around here now than there were uh 50 years ago. But fifty years or so ago, there was no hunting season. So all the hunting that we did, deer hunting that we did, anyways, was semi-illegal, which seemed to make it a lot more fun at that time. And that's led me to become friendly with not, you know, local guys around here and everything, but uh that's my connection. Fitchy and I first met through the hosting business, and he actually came down, Bruce Whittier asked him to come down and work my first sale. I had a deer mounted in the kitchen of the house, and he had come into the kitchen of the house and saw that one. And it wasn't long after that that we became pretty good friends, and uh he had a friend by the name of Tim Leach, who I'm friendly with now, and they come down hunting every year, uh because the deer are bigger down here than they are in Vermont. But anyways, so that so that part is good. But hunting deer was has always been a passion. Uh my son hunts, my grandson hunts, so it's a pretty neat thing to do. Like I say, it's it's quite a bit different now. It's it's all that Connecticut has a lot more seasons and the bow season and the rifle season and a muzzle season, but it's pretty pretty neat, and it's it's a lot of fun, and I've traveled some hunting also. But it's a it's a good comradeship that that we've had a had a lot of fun with.

SPEAKER_04 45:42

Well, I would maybe we'll do a podcast with you and Leach and Fitzsimmons telling some of your stories. I'm I'm laughing because I'm saying you said there it used to be illegal to hunt deer all year, and I'm saying that from what I know and the stories I hear, none of the none of the legalities me even matter to you guys. So I I'm shocked to hear you talk about the legalities of deer hunting on this podcast. But we will we're not gonna go any deeper than that because I I you know if a game warden happens to be listening to this, I think there could be issues. Let's uh let's talk about skiing. Um, I bet people don't realize what an avid skier you are, and and tell us about some of your ski trips.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

So, skiing I I really like. In my early 20s, late teens, and early 20s, I skied a little bit. And once I started farming full-time and first got married, that really took a back seat. But after my first sale, a friend of mine, uh Paul Brickie was his name, said, you know, we ought to go out west and and ski. And I had time then because at that first sale I sold everything over a year old, so I was kind of regrouping. In any event, went out to Vale, really fell in love with skiing again, and and especially the snow out there was really good. So uh eventually it led into for 17, 18 years in a row, there was a group of seven to nine of us that would go out west at some place every every year and and ski. We've been to Park City, we've been to Whistler and Steamboat, but but a lot of the good things and had a lot of fun and a little break break from from the cattle. So it's been it's been a pretty neat thing. But I really think the the neatest thing that uh that I found in in with that, it's a it's a really neat thing to go hunting with your grandson or grandsons and stuff like that or granddaughters. Skiing with with your grandchildren is also very neat. It's just just a neat thing, it's a different feeling. So that that's been a pretty pretty reward rewarding thing that way there.

SPEAKER_04 47:51

And just so our listeners know, it I think you and Lois maybe have just bought a condo on a mountain in Vermont, and everybody would be welcome there, right? Um as long as they're paying.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Why not? That's kind of uncharacteristic of me or whatever. We we sold one of the other dairies, and it's next to a condo that a guy by the name of Doug Hart, who's a veterinarian over in New York, owned, and that's how I I kind of got interested, or whatever. So it's it's probably a little too late in my life, but I think I think we'll still enjoy it. So that's a pretty neat thing.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

Well, most importantly for this conversation to wrap us up is tell us about your woodsman competition and your lumberjack competition. Tell the listeners a little what you what you do, some of your successes.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

The lumberjack series that that I became interested in, the the fellows that I hunted with, mostly illegal hunters or whatever, were lumberjacks. One of them's father was was Lumberjack Rick Gears is his name. His father's name was Dave Gear, he's been world champion. Boonville, New York was a really big show there where he was championed a lot, and Freiburg Fair is another big one, but a lot of local fairs people around here probably know the sport. Well, later on in life, these guys would still do it, and I would practice with them, but never took it very seriously. One of the fellas that I was really good friends with or whatever, uh got killed in a construction accident, which is really too bad, but I became partners with Rick Gere then after that happened, kind of in honor of the fellow that got killed. So we did quite a few shows, we won quite a few competitions. Probably uh as far as my winnings go, the I won the axe throw at Fire Freiburg, which covers basically the the eastern United States, but we also won in a cross-cutter event, uh done well in Bosorin and those events. And these guys it's it's a lot like the Holstein business too, as far as partnering up with the right people and the people that you know and that type of stuff. One thing that is is very important to know, which isn't something, is they have different divisions in that lumberjack uh show. And I got to be in the masters uh uh competition, not in the open competition. These guys were champions in the open competition and masters, and now they have even a super masters for the really old guys. So, anyway, so just it's technique, it's having good partners, it's having a lot of things, good trainers and that type of stuff. But if it wasn't for you competing against other people in your age bracket, um no, we wouldn't we wouldn't do well against the 30-year-olds, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_04 50:51

So it just none of us do well against them in anything, Clark. So you know tell us about two or what are your what events have you competed in in these contests, so our listeners know.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

Oh, I I've competed in basically all of them. It would be treefelling, which is a really neat one to do and in place in that, axe throwing, uh cross-cut sawing, log rolling. And the log rolling is not with a log in the water, it's the logs on the ground, and you have to keep it in between the pins and the the best time on that. Bow sawing, and then I haven't done it a lot or whatever, because I had a little bit of a back problem, would be the underhand chop and a standing chop. And uh, and we still meet, except from Thanksgiving to Christmas, we still meet up behind here and train usually one night a week. I don't know if you call it training, but but we do train one night a week, and it's kind of neat to the area here because there's you know quite a few guys that do that here, and and then very good at it, and it makes it neat.

SPEAKER_04 51:57

I'm responsible to keep this program honest, and and you've hit a wall for me, Clark, because I you most of everything you said today was okay. And I don't mind if you say this to Lois, but from what I understand, the training sessions uh are you throw a bunch of axes and drink a bunch of whiskey. Is I don't I just don't want our listeners thinking it's real training, I think it's more uh social than training. Would that be fair? Uh semi. It depends on how close the show and how intense we are. That's right. In all seriousness, uh you are uh legendary in that in that field, and I and I think people uh people know a little bit about it, but um uh I I personally have never seen a competition. I've seen videos of it, and it it's fascinating. So the last thing I'm gonna ask you, so we can get done, and you can go do chores, you get cows to feed. Is there something about you that our listeners wouldn't know that is gonna make people say, I did not know that about Clark Woodmancy? Is there anything you'd like to share with them?

SPEAKER_01 53:02

Lois says I should share this, uh, and I was in between or whatever. My uh appreciation for music, especially country rock and The Grateful Dead. No, I'm not a deadhead, you know, per se, of what and I don't follow the uh social deal of the dead or whatever, but I really do like their music, especially their country rock music, and how they've substained throughout the years, you know, and they have John Mayer playing for them now and that type of stuff. But that's just uh if I was to tell people that or whatever, they'd say, What? And no, I don't fit the mold, but I do I mean I like all kinds of music, or most all kinds of music. I do, we've been to go see Dead and Company a couple times and that type of stuff, and you wouldn't expect to see me there. And when I go there, I I love to people watch, but I I just gotta shake my head on some of that. But the music is really, really good, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

I I was hoping because if you didn't go down that road, I was I was going to, and I, you know, I could see it in your face. Yeah, I could I could tell. I I think our listeners now have the same vision of you going to a dead concert with your tie-dye shirt and your hair and a ponytail that I do with some cutoff jeans. And I you know, you're a closet hippie is what it boils down to, and that's why that's why you're such a good guy.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

So uh we no, I thought our listeners wouldn't call it a closet hippie, but I I a closet music liker, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

No, you and honestly, the greatness of that band and Clark, you said it the the testament to them surviving all these years. Oh, and their music surviving all these years is something. So I I thought that's where we'd go. So, Clark, anything you want to leave our listeners with uh before we get done?

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Uh I guess that I'm very appreciative of you and uh you know wanting me to do this here, and I'm also very appreciative of winning the Klusendorf Award this this year, and also that I I hope I said some things that you agree with, and some things that you know people can take and and move forward with and and use in their own programs and and help them in their situation. Another thing that I had thought of before doing this was another person that did have it, I didn't know very well, but did kind of have an influence on me was Doug Maddox. I went to his dairy early on, and he also spoke at a at a New England meeting. And one thing that he said that really held on to, he was talking about the purebred business and registered cattle, and he says, you know, he says you really need to be a good commercial dairyman before you can be a good purebred dairyman. And I and I always really respected that and and took that to heart, that you still have to watch your basics in order to make the the breeding end of it, end of it work. I always thought that was very, very good advice.

SPEAKER_04 56:14

Well, Clark, it's been fun. I've been wanting to do this for a long time. Uh I reflect on our conversation, and I'm lucky because I get to talk to you about every week and learn from you. You're you're one of my great mentors and one of my dearest friends. I think, though, for our listeners, statements like putting yourself in a position to be lucky with anything you do, whether it's investment, it's partnerships. And then the other thing that I think too many of us in this business forget about is that cows have to pay the bills at home for you to do all the things that you do. Your number one focus is to put enough milk in that bolt tank to pay the bills so Clark and Lois can do what they want to do. And I think those are statements, along with all the other good advice and all the other history, I think we've learned from you today, Clark, on that. So I thank you.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Like I say, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 57:04

As we wrap up, I would say um, next time you're at Madison um and you get to see Clark and Lois Woodmancy walking through the barn, stop and talk to them because they are this way with everybody, just like this conversation we just had. Well, I joke with people that if you Google one of the most honest gentlemen in the world, there'll be a picture of Clark Woodmancy. And if you Google one of the most wonderful women, and it's certainly an angel, there'll be a picture of Lois. And the reason you two are maybe the most loved couple in this industry is because those are the people you are. On behalf of Dairy Business and Showbox Sires, we thank you for what you do for the industry, and we thank you for doing this podcast on our Evolution of the Great Cow series. Thank you for listening.