DairyVoice Podcast
DairyVoice Podcast
Tim Abbott talks with well-known fitters Joan Seidel, Rory Timlin, and Brent Sayles
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In this episode of DairyVoice, host Tim Abbott of Showbox Sires, continues his series The Evolution of the Great Cow and talks with Joan Seidel of Pennsylvania, Rory Timlin of Ireland, and Brent Sayles of Ontario.
Holstein show fitters, also called clippers, are skilled individuals who groom dairy cattle using specialized clippers, brushes, and adhesives to highlight their best features for competitions like the World Dairy Expo, focusing on creating level toplines, smooth body coats, and well-styled legs and tails, with techniques involving blow-drying against the hair and clipping in precise patterns to enhance breed conformation and overall appearance for judges.
All three of these fitters are well-known in the industry, but have unique experiences to share. They discuss their many years on the show circuit, what excites them about their jobs, and some of the herds they have worked with around the world. All three share some of the coolest show moments from their past.
You're listening to Dairy Voice by Dairy Business News, a podcast exclusively for the dairy industry.
SPEAKER_07One of our sponsors of the Dairy Voice Podcast is National DHIA. NDHIA ensures information accuracy and represents their members' interests. They are the direct voice for the dairy information industry. To find out more, go to DHIA.org.
SPEAKER_04Hey there. After you've finished enjoying this podcast, might I recommend you join me, Tim Hammerich, and our guests on Clarity at Work from Zoetis. We'll be talking genetics and their place on the dairy. You've got a seat at the table as we discuss innovations, what's next for the industry, and more.
SPEAKER_03I have to find the value in everything that I do, and I still find value in Clarified Plus, so we're going to continue to use it.
SPEAKER_04Just search for Clarity at Work wherever you listen to podcasts. Once you finish with this podcast, of course.
SPEAKER_08Welcome to the latest edition of the series that we call The Evolution of the Great Cow on Dairy Business through the Dairy Voice podcast series. This is the program sponsored by Showbox Sires, working in unison with the Dairy Voice to bring you interesting people and stories from our business that will help you as breeders and marketers in what you're trying to do. We talk often on this podcast about the three legs under the table of our business that we like to look at it as at Showbox Sires. We think genetics is one leg, marketing is one leg, and then cow care is another. Today we have three guests that I think are involved in all three facets of these, particularly in cow care and marketing, because the services they provide to all of us as breeders are critical. In our world today, many of us send cattle to shows and can't go there and take care of them ourselves. So the industry of cattle preparation has become big business. It is a global market today, and people from all over the world will join in to help get cattle ready in every facet of the business. And it's different than it used to be because cattle strings are not all one herd. Cattle strings don't go from show to show like they used to. But today, the people that we can call fitters, if you will, run from show to show and provide a service to us as breeders and marketers that is invaluable to us. We have to have them. So I thought it was important to talk to a few of them and hear about their lives. Some would say it's a life of a gypsy, and I mean that in a good way. Many people dream of doing it, but I don't think there is a harder career in the business than what y'all do. So I'm gonna walk through a series of questions with three really good friends of mine that are in the business. Today on our podcast, we welcome Joan Sidel from Pennsylvania. Joan has been involved with Sharon and I in our businesses for the past 25 years. She and her husband, Doug, have developed many different uh successful companies and businesses. And Joan is as active in her fitting businesses today as ever. Another good friend, Rory Timlin from Ireland, has been uh involved with our businesses for the past decade, worked with us when we were Border View, and now is an integral part of what Showbox Sires and the Abbott Ducket team do every year at the shows. And then the youngest member of our group today is Brett Sales from Ontario. We were fortunate to get him to join our team this year. We've watched him from afar, and he is one of the most talented young people in this business, and we were thrilled to have him part of our team. So I'm going to we're gonna go to each of them for questions and to learn a little more about them. So welcome to you three three people. And I know many of you are getting ready to hit the road for your next gig. So I'm gonna start with questions. We're gonna kind of bounce around and and ask you in different orders. Joan, I'd say we ought to start with you because that's quite a career you're you're building. You're kind of like me, Joan. You you you start to have, I don't know if it's a successful career, but it's a long career. So Joan Seidel from Fleetwood, Pennsylvania. Welcome. Tell us a little about yourself and where you came from.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you, Tim. I grew up on a farm in western New York, and when we were young, we showed in 4-H and Junior Holstein. And my father was very involved in the sales business and was an auctioneer and managed sales. So my earliest recollection and experiences came from showing and being around the sales business. I never really thought that I would make a career in fitting until I was into my 20s and had been to college and worked on a dairy farm. And after meeting people and being at some shows, I thought maybe that I could make a career out of this. And I guess I never really thought that it would last as long as it has. But it's been an exciting ride, and I've got to meet a ton of great people and done a lot of fun things during that time. And I currently reside in Pennsylvania, as you said, with my husband Doug.
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SPEAKER_08You know, I I think it's important to talk about from when you started doing this professionally. How many years is it?
SPEAKER_00I don't want you don't have to tell us your age, but uh Well, I I'm not afraid to say I'm 63. And from my mid-20s, with the exception of the time we spent managing the herd in Maryland, it's pretty much all that I've done for a living since then. Yeah, uh other than the time in Maryland, this is pretty much all I've done.
SPEAKER_08So, I mean, realistically, we're talking a 40-year career of doing this, Joan. And for our listeners, the impact that Joan has had in this business, she is won one of the most prestigious, if not the most prestigious award, I think, in our business in the United States, which is the Kusendorf Mackenzie Award, chosen by your peers in the industry for people that work back in the barns of the cattle. And Joan, do you remember that day when you heard your name announced at World Dairy Expo?
SPEAKER_00That was an amazing moment, humbling, and so so honored to win that award because it means so much when you're to be selected by your peers like that is just overwhelming, an incredible moment for me, for sure.
SPEAKER_08And and I think uh you know, we'll we'll talk more about how you got there and and what has has uh made that happen. Second on our agenda, and I think I'm going by age here. I think I got this right. Rory Timlin from Ireland. Many of you know Rory, he is at all the major shows all over the world. Rory, tell us first of all, welcome. And we know it's in the evening in Ireland now, and it's probably time for some Jameson, so we have to hurry. But give us a little story of where you came from and what you've done.
SPEAKER_01Well, thanks for having me on, Tim. So I'm from the northwest of Ireland, just live along the coast, and my suppose my parents don't have the farm, my uncle has the dairy farm. Always kept pedigree hosting cows and just helped him showing locally, just at three local shows. I guess tagged along then with my neighbor who went further at to the bigger shows in Ireland and just fell in love with it, and then got asked over to be an intern in Canada and met some guys there that were clipping and just kept going ever since.
SPEAKER_08How many years, Rory, would you say you have done this professionally as a career?
SPEAKER_01So I've been probably fitting professionally for about 12 to 13 years, and then I was helping out at shows and sales like just clipping legs and helping out for about three years previous to that.
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SPEAKER_08And Rory, today, you still travel the world, do shows all over the place. Any idea how many miles a year you're traveling to do this?
SPEAKER_01No idea. I'm I never looked it up, never worked it out. I even hear count and flight. I I don't think I want to know.
SPEAKER_08No, you're right. I I think uh any of us that travel, you know, everybody thinks it's a great perk to have elite frequent flyer status. Frankly, it's it's a terrible thought, isn't it? It is, it is, yeah. And and Roy, why did you why did you choose this? You know, Joan Joan grew up in a in a family that had a sales business, so she saw it happening every day and and started showing. In Ireland, you know, it's a little different than it is in western New York. How how did you get going?
SPEAKER_01I guess the the farming option would have been quite tricky here where I live. Climate isn't great, farm size, and I realistically, I would have been more a farm manager on a dairy, would have been the most I could have done if I just went that route. That was the plan. I I was supposed to go to college and never did. So I guess I I was very lucky to fall in with the right people, just really fell in love with the pedigrees and the shows and the whole every aspect of it, really.
SPEAKER_08Rory, that story is similar for so many people that do what you guys do professionally. So certainly it's a pleasure to welcome Brett Sales from Paris, Ontario. You know, we've we've talked about pedigrees, and Rory and John both have wonderful pedigrees in the business, but people know your pedigree as well. You know, your your grandpa Brian Sales is an iconic man in the business, and Brighton Farm, where you've been involved in, you know, certainly involved and and critical to the to the marketing and breeding of Jersey cows around the world. So we welcome you, Brent. Tell us a little bit about how you got going down this road and and what got you started.
SPEAKER_05Thanks for having me on, Tim. Like you said, I grew up in southwestern Ontario on our family's farm, Brighton Farms. Grew up going out the barn in the tie stall, seeing the cows there in their home environment, getting used to them on a day-to-day basis. When we were younger, we would only really go to Paris Fair because my uncle, my dad, my grandpa, our family's blessed with the competitive bug. So smaller kids getting in the way at the shows when it's when it's go time, we are kind of limited to the to the local county fairs before we got to the age where we could carry our shit buckets around and make ourselves useful. But once we got to that age, going to shows or whatever and traveling around, really just fell in love with it, similar to everybody else's story, seeing cows go from how they look on a day-to-day, developing them and getting them out at the best of their their capabilities. It's kind of an art form, and I think it's something everybody in our business appreciates. And that's kind of what drew me into the business of traveling and fitting cattle. And how long have you done it, Brett? I'm really into doing it. I started about, I would say, eight years ago. Started with local county fairs, doing legs for some guys, helping with a few smaller herd dispersals. And it just kind of snowballed from there. One opportunity always leads to the next in this kind of an industry. So putting your best foot forward in all those circumstances kind of helps get you down the right path, I suppose.
SPEAKER_08And part of the reason I got the diverse group that I do is because we've we've got you know new medium and experience, right, Joan? Is that the way we say it? I'm laughing, Brent, because all three of you talked about clipping legs to get started. When I'm at a show and I get to run clippers, I still clip legs. That is that's what I'm up to. So is there hope for me someday? Like, is that is that my next path? Is you know, ever all of you started clipping legs. I can do it. So maybe that's my next goal. So Brent, I want to go back to you. You talked about the art of getting cows ready. What what does cow care or cow preparation mean to you?
SPEAKER_05I suppose like when it starts every year in the spring, I guess, like or even when there's a fresh cow, like you see cows at different levels of their potential. So, like sometimes at the fall shows you see them as ready as they're gonna get, but they don't always look like that. It takes so much preparation, uh, care, and attention to detail to get them there. People work all year round to develop these cows from little fresh two-year-olds or even as young calves all the way up. Right, cattle care makes a huge difference. Like it can be the difference in multiple places at the shows, or even making it to the show in the first place. It's the people that do that work or what make the the whole showing industry go around, make it function.
SPEAKER_08For you, the art of getting a cow ready at the show. Tell me two or three ingredients to that. Like what what is important to you as you prepare a cow?
SPEAKER_05Patience, I suppose, would be pretty critical, knowing when to act on a cow and when to let her just be a cow. They don't always have to be perfect. Sometimes they have a a few hours where they're not rolling. So just patience in that regard, attention to detail. People talk about always watching the cows. And if you're not watching the cows, you won't know when a cow's off. So those are really the few main ingredients is just attention to detail for myself and patience, not always overreacting to a situation.
SPEAKER_08I think that's tremendous advice because too many people in the industry want to put on their Superman cape and not that the let the cow be a cow. So I think really good advice. Rory, uh any thought, any thoughts to add to Brent's comments?
SPEAKER_01No, I think uh Brent summed it up great there. You know, pay attention, patience, knowing when to react, not to overreact. Let a cow be a cow, and you know, there's always it, there'll be the next show, you know. You sometimes you gotta know when just not our not our day. There'll be another show.
SPEAKER_08Because I think one of the hardest things we do as exhibitors and fitters is pull the pin on a cow that you have to look in the mirror and say, This is not her day. And and I know I know as an owner and somebody that watches cows get ready, it it is a real battle. So, what you're saying, Rory, is you got to know when to fold them when when it's not it doesn't mean she's not a great cow, it may mean she's not having a great day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, especially like young cows too, that change a lot, and maybe you know this is she's gonna be better next year, and if she ain't just right, just like you say, just just hold on and go again.
SPEAKER_08And Joan, for you, what does cow care, cow preparation mean to you?
SPEAKER_00When you get to a show, I like what you can see you can do for a cow from the first day until show day. You know, those first couple days are hard when you're trying to get a cow on on a program. For all of us fetters in these situations now, a lot of times we haven't seen this cow at home. We haven't seen this cow until the day she gets to the show. So we've got to see what we can do to get that cow from point A to point B in however many days we have to work with. So I think the fun part is to see what you can do and how far you can bring that cow along. In all the years that I've been showing cows, the basic concept is still to optimize that cow's ability can to be ready on show day. The same concepts of feeding hay, getting him out of routine, getting them clipped, washed, and paying attention to detail. That's in my notes several times of things to talk about today is detail, detail, detail. You can't hit on that enough because if you're not paying attention, you're gonna miss something that you could maybe do better.
SPEAKER_08And it's interesting, you all talk about detail. You get to work with these cows for maybe five, six days at maximum, and you're also putting in 18-hour days, but you still have to have the focus to do that, isn't that right, Joan? Isn't that that's what you're saying? Like it's it's intense, but you have to find that inner drive to do it somehow.
SPEAKER_00It has to excite you. Like, if you're not excited every day to see what you can do in a day, then you're you're not gonna stay in this business because it it takes it does take a big drive to to want to be able to do that every day.
SPEAKER_08And Rory, you know, Jones talked about the big drive and and how it works for her. What is the thrill for you? What it what gets you going every day and working 18-hour days week after week?
SPEAKER_01Yes, the big drive. It's still hard to beat, I think. Sending a cow or a heifer to the ring, you know, right ready, you know, when they look as good as they can, working towards that all week, others bagged perfection, big fit on her, you know, beautiful clip job, and off she goes to the ring. I still get very excited about that.
SPEAKER_08That really drives what you're doing. Brett, would you uh anything to add to those great comments?
SPEAKER_05No, I think actually, Rory, for me, he he nailed that comment, that moment when the cow's walking away from the chute, and everybody that worked to get her ready kind of looks at each other and nods, like, oh, she she's on the money. That's a pretty special moment for somebody that travels around fitting.
SPEAKER_08As an owner, when you guys are standing behind the cow high fiving when she heads to the ring, there's nothing like it for us because we know you've you've done all you can do in your minds that day, and then it's it's off our plate. We've moved it to someone else's plate, and then and it's out of our controls. Like everything in the world, there are negatives. What what are some of the pitfalls? What are some of the things young guys, gals uh do in this business that that I think are negatives or that are negatives to what you do every day?
SPEAKER_05Brent, I'll start with you when you want to get into fitting and you want to push the needle on how good you can get and do a tremendous job for the people that brought you wherever you are in the world, overloading yourself with like too many head of cattle, like over overextending yourself, overcommitting yourself, finding the right amount of animals that you're working with within a certain week, just to kind of allow yourself to be the best uh fitter that you can be if you're overextended. It's uh tough not to make a few shortcuts to get through the week when you're overloaded with work, but uh finding a balance for yeah, the number of heads that you're working with, and then uh not allowing yourself a time to have a little bit of a break. 18-hour days are long, but whether you're having lunch a little bit of a half an hour, sit down there, walk around, chat to people, bring in that social aspect that is why people started going to shows in the first place. All the people you meet think is something that's pretty important.
SPEAKER_08That's good. We we all enjoy sitting on the show box and having those jaws, right? That's why that's why we're showbox tires, because we we all work hard in this business, but but doing what you said and taking that little bit of a step back will help you with your focus. Rory, do you see some things that are negatives or pitfalls that people in the business do?
SPEAKER_01I don't do it as much, but when you go show to show to show and you're tired or getting worn out, you can you can get tired and maybe lose focus or maybe lose sorry more lose the drive. Sometimes when you go back to back to back and you have stuff going on at home and you can't get home for another week or two. And I guess there can be stuff going on away from the shows too, and you you can't do anything until you actually get off the road.
SPEAKER_08You all have lives outside of doing this, right? Yeah, we all do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I guess for me too, I'm I suppose I I have a small beef farm at home that I have, and then also buying and selling cattle and embryos, and there can be stuff going on with that. And it's when you're locked in at a show, like a pretty important show, and you're busy and you just kind of deal with stuff or just sit down and work it out. It's hard to stay focused all the time, I guess, and not to let things build on you while you're at the show, too, while you're working towards this big goal for the end of the week.
SPEAKER_08Good advice. I think the young people will appreciate. I think those are all gut checks for us in the business. And Joan, you've seen the good, the bad, the ugly. What are some things that you see that go wrong or that that young people or old people should uh should pay attention to?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think they've made some really good points. And I would just add to that that when you're at a show, you should always be remembering that no matter how hard you're working to get that cow ready, be sure and remember that somebody's gonna take that cow home and take care of her when the show's over and not to go too far on something or do something that maybe is gonna be a negative to that cow. And to just keep your focus, like the guy said, really just keep your focus and be aware of what you're trying to do, that you want to do the best you can for the people you're working for, and don't get caught up in what anybody else is doing, just focus on what your job is.
SPEAKER_08The artistry of getting that cow out and doing the high fives when she heads to the ring, right? Or effort. Absolutely, absolutely. That is the goal to go down that road a little more. I don't think people understand the taxation or the or the grueling lifestyle y'all live. Joan, how many, how many sales and shows would you say you do in a year? Have you got some number for us? Would you say I did.
SPEAKER_00I counted up last year. I was at 20 shows and I did five sales, and I spent about 40 days on the farm working, helping people do chores, herd clipping, that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_08That's a lot of days out of 365 that are that you're you've got your hands on a set of clippers or a or a brush, huh?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was uh right about 180 days away from home last year.
SPEAKER_08Rory, have you got any idea what uh what your schedule looked like last year or or coming this year?
SPEAKER_01So I did a little countback on last year, I think I done 22, 24 shows. Now some of them were quick county shows, two of them were, three of them were. And one I did one sale that I run with my couple of buddies there in Ireland, and that's that's the only sale I done.
SPEAKER_08And would you say that you're gone from your bed at home in Ireland, similar to Joan, 180 nights uh a year, something of that nature?
SPEAKER_01180, maybe a few more nights than that as well. I've gotten busier than since COVID, like pre-COVID, I was down to two weeks a month. That's where I was. I had other stuff going on, it's just kind of built up the last couple of years, gotten a bit busier with with different things.
SPEAKER_08Brent, tell us about your as it's an evolving career, right? And you, you know, you're involved at home too, and and you do a lot in Ontario. What what does your year look like?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so I'm maybe not as much of a near as much of a road warrior as Rory is. Last year I worked five sales, and I think it was like 13 or maybe 14 shows if you count a few uh the smaller Ontario County shows when I'm not working fitting for other people. Like you said, I'm at home working on the the family dairy farm, doing whether it's hay, corn silage, or any other uh the usual farm tasks. Not quite three months a year, I'm gone.
SPEAKER_08That's still a it's a huge commitment, right? Because you're still involved in the family operation. And as Rory said earlier, we've all got the draws back home, right? So aside from aside from your fitting businesses, Rory, I know you're involved in some other things. Tell us a little about what else you're involved and how it fits into your fitting business.
SPEAKER_01Guess being chance to go to North America and that being from Ireland, the big opportunity is buying embryos from the best cows there. I buy a lot of embryos there with a couple of buddies of mine, and we call ourselves Apex. Yeah, by then I guess we'll have a hundred eggs bought there within the last year, just in that syndicate alone. And then I also source eggs for other people and yeah, and then also buying and selling some along the way, and then I own a bunch of cows, and you know, you you work them, you know, yourself to try and sell eggs, sell calves, show them, and a lot of stuff like that.
SPEAKER_08Do you still get a drive out of going up and down the roads to farms in the off season or or outside of a show or running around the show trying to spot that next cow?
SPEAKER_01Oh, that that that really excites me. I love that. You never know what you'll come across or what you'll find, or you never know, yeah. You never know what you'll find. It could be a cow, it could be heifer, it could be the next really up-and-coming family. You never know what you're gonna see. Oh, it's very exciting. I love it.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that that is a great thrill. Brent, would you uh anything uh from your standpoint? How do you incorporate other things into your fitting business?
SPEAKER_05Buying and selling a few heifers with some of my buddies around here that maybe I travel around with fit, or one's a dairy farm just in this area here. You never know like what you're gonna come across, whether it's at a show or if you're going somewhere herd clipping or whatever, there's there's always a cow that's worth a phone call somewhere about to somebody. More exciting for me is working full-time on the farm. You see that you work with the calves from the day they're born right up to when they're coming. This past year we were fortunate. Uh, we had a young cow that did really well at the Royal, and I still remember seeing her as a calf and as a heifer, and just I had a gut feeling. I was like, I really like this one. This one gets me going. Like going to see her and what she cabbed in with that special manner system. I was that was quite the feeling. It was cherry on top for a few years of anticipation.
SPEAKER_08And Brent, just so our listeners know the impact of Brighton. I don't know the statistic, but I'm I'm close. How many years has Brighton had a nomination for in the all-Canadian Jersey contest? Do you know that number?
SPEAKER_05It'd be getting close to 60 by now, 60 years. So the farm, my grandpa started our farm in 1967, and I it's it's in the between 50 57 and 60 years. We did the math a few years ago, and I've just kind of lost track since then, but we have we've kept the streak going the last couple.
SPEAKER_08Five decades going on, six decades that a bright-on cow has been on the page of a of a nomination. I don't think Joan, Rory, we know great breeders everywhere. I would challenge anybody to tell me who's had more success than that over the years. So, Brent, to what drives you, my goodness, you are, you know, it's ingrained in you. You've got five decades of this in your blood, and it and it that is why you guys are successful because you're competitive. And that's a to me, that's a story in itself. This is probably another podcast. We need to get Brian on, don't we? He he he could tell us some stories. He would love that. He would love that. And Joan, you know, as you think about that and other things that you've done in your career, you've done many things from your sales series to you know, even just your barn clipping and helping people make their cows more valuable. I talk about the legs under the table. How valuable a service do you provide when you help somebody get their cows ready to classify or take pictures for a sale? Can you go down some of your other avenues that you go other than being at a show?
SPEAKER_00Good point to make because it seems like less and less people think they need to clip their cows on a regular basis. But I have a great group of clients that I'm there on a regular basis. It makes it a fun part of the business because being able to do farm work, it's maybe a little more social. I think sometimes you get a chance to visit a little more with people, and for sure it's an important avenue. Those guys are selling eggs and having people visit their farms and when they score and their cows look look the part because they look like they put some effort into getting them ready for classification. No doubt it's a valuable tool. The other thing that I kind of throw into what I do, and you touched on it before, is the year I spent at Border View or the nine months, Donna on more than one occasion spent a winter doing chores for someone, helping them chore. And I think it kind of makes you remember how hard it, how hard everybody works every day that farms every day. And it's a good good equalizer to do chores. And so the last few years I've been helping Cedar Lane farm do chores in the winter time. It's good because you get to feel like you are a part of something and you get to know the cows on a regular basis, and then when you get to work with them at the show, you feel like a little more a part of the show string and the cows because you know them on a little bit more personal basis.
SPEAKER_08Rory and Brent, we would all agree that understanding, and you guys would definitely confirm this, like Joan's saying, this is a 365-day a year project now, and we we all go to Madison or Toronto or whatever show you go to for those five or six days, and you guys try to put Humpty Dumpty together, right? But if if Humpty Dumpty doesn't have a good start, you're gonna have a you're gonna have a lot of trouble getting it done. And and I think you know, the hard work that goes on at the farm level, we all talk about it, but it Joan, it's neat that you still grind there. Brent, I know you do when you go back to Brighton and Rory, you do the same thing. So I think it's critical that people understand you guys just aren't on the road every day, you know, at some cool show, because there's a lot else that goes into it. I think for our listeners, as we start to wind this down, give me a few of the herds that uh that you have worked with that you think have been some of your favorite times, and and then we'll go to some of your favorite moments. But let's just start with herds. Brad, I'll start with you.
SPEAKER_05Probably Jacobs has to be the first one that comes to mind. I've helped them for a few years. I was fortunate to help Ducats and Showbox last fall. I've helped Milk Source for a stint, and then back home in Canada, I've really enjoyed my time helping the Wendon herd and the Challeck family out in Alberta. Those are kind of the four main ones that come to mind, the ones that have helped the the most consistently and uh for the longest stretch of time.
SPEAKER_08Well, you surely for a young man, you surely have just named kind of the who's who of what's going on in the business. You know, great, great people, and you know, certainly when you're talking about when Don, you know, what an opportunity to to work with Don and you know, I'm sure doing that you have to put up with his brother Dave some. As long as Dave's not around too much, a Shallock experience would be good.
SPEAKER_05Would that be right? Dave's always good to spice up a conversation. You never know when he's gonna drop by the farm while you're there. Yeah, I always like it best when Dave leaves.
SPEAKER_08Uh he listens to all these, so we can reference that. Rory, kind of your who's who, and and I realize you could name tons and tons, but just some of the some of the cool things that cool herds you've done.
SPEAKER_01Well, I guess I'll start with Duncan and Showbox. That's been pretty cool the last you know, the last few years. Talk Farm in Italy, Riverdane in England, Viewfort in Australia. Uh, help lookout back in the day. I helped Rencrest and Windy Knowle View at a couple of shows throughout the year. Budge on Wendon. Yeah, Trent Valley as well. Used to help them when they were showing up until this year as well. So, yeah, help a few people.
SPEAKER_08A great list, and and again, a lot of mentors, Rory, for you for you in there as well. And interesting a little crossover. I will add these two boys are getting on a plane later this week or next week to go to Australia. And I think working together with one of the greatest herds in the world at the Gordon Brothers Holsteins in Australia. Uh, you guys will be on that team together next week. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Just so you know, when you get there, I do do front legs, and if you need me, let me know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, we leave them for you.
SPEAKER_08So Joan Joan's laughing about me doing front legs, but uh Joan, this list could be long. You give us a few of you know who's made Joan who you are.
SPEAKER_00It it could be a you're right, it could be a long list. Like early, early in my career, I helped Pam Tom and Carousel and Lyle Haven and Norm Nabholtz, and you know, a lot of great people. And more or less when I kind of came back into it in in the last 10 years, probably my longtime client is Bernita Gable with Snyder Homestead, and she's one of the premier Guernsey breeders in the U.S. Been able to win a lot of shows with her, which has been a lot of fun. And the last few years been helping Tim Kuhn, who spearheaded the elite crew for Showstring, and with Clark Woodmincy and a really a good group of people that helped that send cows with Tim Kuhn. A couple years ago I helped Garrett De Bruin at Madison, and last year I helped Pacific Edge and Brothers 3 Swiss, some new people, and some people that I've helped for a long, long time. And I like both as aspects of that. It's fun to be able to help the same people because you know the cows and the people and you're comfortable, and it's always good to step out and find somebody new because you never know what that will lead to as well.
SPEAKER_08And Joan, I I think it's a real tribute and compliment to you. 40 years in this business, you're still taking new clients, and and that truly, Rory, when you think about it or Brent, you know, when you've done it as as long as Joan has, and you've still got the spark to take on a new client, you know, gives us a lot of energy. If you got a moment at a show, Joan, that you remember as your greatest moment. I may have a prediction, but you go ahead.
SPEAKER_00A long time ago, I did get to lead a winner at Madison, and that was a really special moment, you know, in a time where you get to lead one in the champ in the Supreme Sure, winning the McKenzie Award was uh a personal moment as big as it will ever come, maybe. That was a huge honor. To me, like a lot of times the a big win is when you see your someone you're working for get a big win, you know, and it's not always a moment at Madison, but it's a big moment for your client, and I think that's a great moment too. Doug and I have owned nominations and had some winners at Madison, and probably my first big champion was helping Clark Woodmancy win his first champion at the Northeast Spring Show in the late 80s, was probably my first big win as a fitter, got me going, really got me excited about the business, I'd say.
SPEAKER_08Well, we just did a podcast with Clarkey last week, and uh he's still got the passion all these years since you won him that championship, Joan. You've you've instilled that in him. So Rory, what have you got a moment or two that you that are just magical, you know? Holy moly, I'm living a dream.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah. When I was helping it's one of your cows, Tim Footloose, when she was uh Supreme in 2022. That was that was something else.
SPEAKER_08And I remember I remember the high fives when she went to the ring that day, Rory. Uh everybody felt pretty good, but that that's interesting because it it's not your cow, but it was a cow you worked hard to get there, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, that was something you always dream of, just to even get to work with or be involved in a crew that I have supreme at Expo. It's uh it's very cool.
SPEAKER_08And Brent, have you uh in your young career, you've you've seen some great things happen.
SPEAKER_05Probably my favorite moment would be the the second time that we helped get Shakira ready. That was a time where me and another fellow that I kind of grew up with showing calves around here. We were we were doing the clipping on her in the preparation. So to have her go out and win that day and just kind of like while while everybody's in the picture area, just kind of reflect with my buddy about like, well, we've come a long way from showing little 4-H cabs at the local county fair with one another. Like, this is pretty surreal to be to be here, and just how far our careers have come and fitting cattle.
SPEAKER_08My greatest moment of the show was uh the Shakara Footloose moment when Mike and Tyler hugged in the ring. Because we Rory were fierce competitors with Jacobs and Shakira with Footloose. You were fierce competitors with footloose. They both they both got two championships under their belt, and we've all remained the greatest of friends since. And I, you know, I think there's something to be said for that. The camaraderie of what this business brings, we all are competitive, right? I I know the three of you well, and you are all very, very competitive, but that doesn't mean you don't have to like your competition. And I think that leads me to my next thing is I think young people sometimes don't understand that it is a camaraderie and it and it's a business of togetherness. Can you guys give we'll start with Joan? Give a little advice to a young person wanting to get going and have a career for 40 years like you have had, or have a career for 10 years, it doesn't matter, Joan.
SPEAKER_00I have two points. One is to something we've already touched on pay attention to detail, do the little things and work hard, be a good team player, and second of all, to don't be afraid to get out of your comfort zone. Try something new, meet new people, go somewhere you've never been before. Don't be afraid to step out of your comfort zone, but mostly pay attention to detail. Rory?
SPEAKER_01I agree with what Joan said. You gotta pay attention to detail, you gotta push yourself. I think you're always keeping your eyes and ears open, and always seeing different ways to improve and being able to work work with people because I remember when I look back at the people I first started working with and them crews a long time ago, and where we all are today, you never know where you'll meet each other again along the road. Like you say, it's a lifelong career, or you never know where you're all gonna end up. And Brad.
SPEAKER_05At the risk of sounding like an echo, attention to detail could not be stressed enough. But we opened the podcast with talking about it, and I think it's a good way to close it. I would say never be afraid to ask questions. People are I, in my experience, have always been willing to share their knowledge if they see you working hard and be passionate about the cattle and have a willingness, willingness to learn. I think that's pretty pretty important, and it can take you a lot of places and keep elevating your game, I suppose.
SPEAKER_08Great advice. And I I think it's important to those of us that you get the cattle ready for to know that's the standard that we need to have in everybody that works for us. One other thing that we haven't done yet, and I always do in my podcast with a group like you, I like to talk a little bit about mentors. And I know we didn't necessarily plan on that today. I'll give you a second to think about a couple mentors in your world.
SPEAKER_05Probably the first mentor was my dad teaching me how to clip, working with the cattle every day. As you get out fitting, I learned a lot, even just from my the other fitters in my area, the eight that are my age, whether it's Wes Haggins or Trent Jones, we uh kind of have a collective hive mind. You go out and you see things and you bring it back to the group and discuss what you saw and either use it or don't use it, and just kind of use a network of people to help grow and develop our knowledge.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think my my parents really, I think I learned a good work ethic from my mother and a lot about the cow business from my father. I feel like I'm so old, but I don't know that you don't always continue to have somebody that you want to try and learn from or emulate. I guess for a long time I maybe I thought I wanted, you know, somebody that I emulated was really my brother and sister that I felt like they were so successful in business that I was always striving to be as far up the ladder as they were. It's hard to think of people in the business because there's just such a list of people that you thought you wanted to try and learn from in all these years. I I don't know, it's kind of hard to pick one or two people, really.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, no, I I get that, and that and that's a tough question because they're obviously in all of our careers we could list so many people that took us down a different path. Rory, any comments from you?
SPEAKER_01Joel Phoenix, Kevin McGriskin, Gerald Cochlin, and then Mike and Julie. They've been all great mentors between Clippin and Cowmanship and how to look after cattle. I think they've been great mentors to me. And and uh Matt Templeton as well. I learned a lot from him the last few years.
SPEAKER_08Great, that's the who's who of the business. And you know, one thing I've learned, guys, doing this podcast, the older we get, the more we look at young people as our mentors, Joan. And you know, I really hadn't thought of that until I sat down with Ernie Kiefner and Tom Morris and Steve Briggs a few years ago at Madison, and their mentors are young people, and you know, there's something to be said for that. I think it's something that most of us don't think about, but but you said it before, Joan, learning something from people every day. So I'm gonna finish this discussion with uh a little bit different. I'm not going down one of the paths I was going, but uh, I want to know what you're each gonna look like in five years. What are you gonna be doing in five years? Can you give me can you give me your dream of what could happen to you in five years? Let's uh let's see how close we can get to the prediction. And Joan's shaking her head. And young sales is laughing and Rory's rubbing his head. And I've done these before when they said they wanna they want my job. So you know I wouldn't take offense to that. But Brent, do you have what's what's a five-year or 10-year brent gonna look like?
SPEAKER_05Oh well, I'm probably gonna be the least interesting of us in five years. Most likely I'll be full-time at the farm. Every year the draw to stay home gets a little bit, uh, a little bit stronger, and that's probably where my my five-year plans headed is looking to take over the home farm and hopefully keep breeding Jersey cattle.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, and boy, what a what a rough run that is. I mean, you're you're only 55 years into all Canadian nominations. I don't think you are the least interesting, Brad. That what a lofty goal, and nothing more important. And I I think you will do it, and I think you're the next generation of the bridons to get it done. Rory, what's the five-year Rory look like?
SPEAKER_01Less time on the road, less fitting, and more time towards working with my own genetics on the genetic side, like own more cattle selling, you know, working towards selling more heifers and dealing more embryos and more towards that side. And yeah, maybe more in a job within the genetic game as well. On top of that, I'm not sure what shape it's all gonna take. But I still want to do a few shows, but not just as many.
SPEAKER_08No, that that's fair because it's hard on the body, it's hard on the mind, and and you've got to dream about what's next. And Joan, you're you're kind of like me. We're we're in our 60s and probably should be thinking about you know what our days on the beach are gonna look like. I'm not very good at it, and I predict you're not gonna be good at it either. What's a five-year plan for Joan?
SPEAKER_00Well, you're right. I am on the back side of things. People ask me all the time, how long are you gonna keep clipping? And I always say, as long as it still excites me that I'm going to keep going, because when I'm not busy, uh I'm not a very good person. Like I'm a lot better person when I'm busy than when I'm not. I guess I will continue till you know. I don't know. I I in five years, hopefully I've slowed down. But when I think about slowing down, then I say, Well, which clients am I gonna cut out and which clients am I gonna keep? That's a hard thing to decide, too. So I don't know. Five years, hopefully, I'm doing a little bit less, doing a few more fun things. Yeah, maybe a little more beach time would be okay.
SPEAKER_08Well, good. I think that has been a great discussion. I've taken a lot of your time, and I thank each of you for our listeners. When you look at these three, each from a different generation, each of them involved in adding value to our genetics. They add value to our genetics through marketing and cow care and vision and promotion, all three of them come at it from a little different angle, have different futures ahead of them, and have different pathways that they got to where they were. But when they give their list of who's who, whether it's Bernita Gable or Clark Woodmancy or Cedar Lane, Wendon or Brydon or Talk Farms or Jacobs or Ducett, these are the who's who, and you three have worked with all of them and some of the greatest cows in the world. As we talk about the importance of your industry and the people in the industry, I think you've given great advice to the young people and to those of us that count on you every day as to the standard of excellence that we need. So, on behalf of Showbox Sires and the Dairy Voice, I thank each of you for being on this podcast, The Evolution of the Great Cow. And I go back to every time we finish one of these podcasts, the evolution of the great cow, a lot has to do with the great people that we work with and you three in your industry at the top of your game. So we thank you and uh hope you listen to our next episode of the Dairy Voice Showbox Cyrus series.