Ep 68 Career: What's the equation for doing great work?

In this episode of The Crazy One, Stephen Gates breaks down the key elements that form the foundation of a successful and fulfilling career. From mastering your craft to embracing originality, creating impact, finding joy, and more, Stephen reveals how to balance these essential ingredients to shape your work, define your career, and enhance your overall happiness. Tune in for actionable insights on building a career that resonates with purpose and passion.

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Stephen Gates : 0:00

What's going on everybody, and welcome into the 68th episode of The Crazy One podcast. As always, I'm your host, Stephen Gates. And this is a show where we talk about creativity, leadership, design, and everything else that helps to empower creative people. Now, I know you don't always hear from me on the most regular basis. This shows a great example. So be sure to subscribe to the show, so you get the latest episodes whenever they come out. I know I haven't been doing a great job of getting the shows out as regularly as I like to I've been doing a ton of traveling, working with a ton of teams doing a ton of different things, but have no fear. There's a bunch of great shows that are in the works. One of the other things of note is that the podcast actually has a new home, one of the things I did was I thought you know what, I was gonna buy it a present. And so I went out and got it a new URL. So you can now find everything about the show, just go to the crazy one. That's the crazy and the number one.com. We moved the show over there. I thought we'll get it off the subdomain, give it a little bit of love and put it out there. But whenever I do these shows, it's always interesting and I think especially It's always interesting as I've been able to get out, talk to more people talk to more teams visit with more people visit with more people who listen to the show. And I feel like I need to, I don't know what maybe clear something up, say something, dispel a myth. And that's just because I record this podcast doesn't mean that I have all the answers. I think if anything, it is really far from it. Because I think whenever you do a podcast, you have this luxury of talking about an ideal state, an ideal state that's detached from reality. And it makes it just so much easier. But we'll talk about how things should be because you're not dealing with other people you work with, or bosses or politics or all that other stuff that comes in and muddies it up. But this show is really also just as much as it's trying to help all of you. It's part of my journey as well because I'm going through a journey on my career to a lot of the subjects that I talked about are because they're oftentimes things that I may be struggling with even in that model. But the show gives me a great way to be able to focus on it, to be able to think about it, to be able to discuss it and to share what I'm learning. As I go through it. It's I mean, it's like, it's not a coincidence that, you know, I did a lot of a few shows around happiness and you know, struggling with your job, and how do you quit right before I quit my last job, because that's what I was going through. And it was something that again, as I dealt with that, as I learned from it, I wanted to share that out. So I think that's the thing is, is I go along this journey. I'm learning new things. I'm questioning old things. I'm figuring some stuff out along the way. But one of the biggest things I've struggled with over the course of my career has been figuring out what's the right ratio of the parts of a creative process to do great work. And to be happy with it. I started to explore this topic in a bit more detail and actually dedicated a whole episode way back in Episode 27. Talking about happiness. It's remained a subject that I've been focusing on and again, I think a lot of it is because with my new job I'm I'm seeing as I'm traveling around, trying to help advise, you know, just be able to speak with a lot of different design leaders, a lot of different design teams and companies and brands of all different sizes. It really has let me see how common of a struggle that is, struggle on an individual level, how do you find that ratio on that happiness as an individual contributor in your job? How do you find that as a team? And it's just one of those things that I've continued to try to think about. And that's the thing is, for me, this started very much as I kind of felt like, well, if I'm going through this, maybe other people are struggling with this. But it's amazing after I've done that show, and since the number of emails that I get from people who tell me how frustrated they are in their jobs, to say that I'll talk about creativity or design or leadership in ways they've heard about but they've never experienced. So it's a subject I continue to think about reflect on and trying to figure out. And, you know, it's been interesting because I don't know maybe it's a bit like Whenever you want to go buy a new car or buy something, all of a sudden you see that car and you see that thing everywhere. Since I've started to see this, I've found a bunch of conversations a bunch of interesting insights that have helped me start to figure some of this stuff out. So this episode, I don't know what we'll call it a supplement or an enhancement to what I said back in Episode 27.

Unknown Speaker : 4:19

Because I think

Stephen Gates : 4:20

I will expand on the topic, I want to refine it a little bit, I want to figure out, how do we actually think about what what is that equation? What are the factors that go into figuring out how do you do great work? How do you do it sustainably? And most importantly, how are you happy whenever you do it? So I've been working on a formula to figure out what are the different components that go into these things? Because there's a lot of different dimensions. There's a lot of different angles that affect you that affect your work that affect the outcome, a lot of these different things, and I started to try to figure out what form should this take And this formula sort of started to emerge out of these conversations. Now look, keep in mind that you have a creative person who's doing math. And anytime that happens, one, it's going to be abstract. And you don't necessarily you shouldn't look too hard at the math to be able to do all of these as an actual mathematical equation. And you also know that whenever that happens, things are gonna get a little bit interesting. But here's where it is. It's a work in progress. I think this will probably be something I'm going to talk about from time to time as I continue to look at this and refine it, but I wanted to share it in this form. Because I want you to be able to see if these are these things that you have in your career, or these things that affect you or what what is the variation on your formula. And look, I put a lot of thought and reasoning into each one of these elements. But you know, let's kind of walk through what it is. So for me, what I've come up with is that your work should equal craft times originality, times impact, plus

Unknown Speaker : 5:53

joy.

Stephen Gates : 5:55

All those words were very deliberately chosen and in many cases, each one of those Words probably stands for a few different things. So what I want to do is actually to walk through each one of those one at a time to really look and spend a minute with each one of them to understand why I think each one is important, how I break them down, why I think about it, and then see if that makes sense to you. So craft was the first thing in the equation, because it's core craft is the process to create your ideas. This includes like the traditional artists and definition of craft and how you use your tools, but also in how you go about your work. And I started with this because I think whenever I think back to art school, whenever I think back to where I started my design education, it is about how to start to learn your craft. It is about those sorts of things. And I think the best people that I work with never leave that behind. They continue to work and invest in that just sort of Craftsman crafts person approach to things. And what that really brings down to whenever I think about if I was going to pull, craft apart There are probably two parts that I think are really important to that. And it's knowledge and attention to detail. Knowledge is just exactly what it sounds like. Do you understand how to use your tools? How do you use those tools? How do you actually stay up to date on what's going on in the industry? And what's going on on your team? How are you developing that palette, that knowledge base that you use. And I think whenever it comes to your tools that this is one place where sometimes people can over index towards or what they do is they go out and they spend maybe a little too much time learning those tools. Because what I would argue whenever it comes to that part of the knowledge, you should learn the tools to the point where they become transparent. And what I mean by that is, is learning them to the point where you don't have to think about how do you create, how do I draw a line? How do I draw a square? How do I I'm not having to think about the act of using the tool. I'm much more concentrating on the outcome on the creative process on on what it is that I'm Creating not the act of creation. Because I think in a lot of cases, when you're learning, you're focused on that act of creation in the tool doing to the point where it becomes transparent. But then also think about what are those things as a part of your craft? How are you keep staying connected to what's going on in the industry? How are you staying connected to what's going on in your company, with your team, with other people? with things like that? How are you sure that that flow of knowledge doesn't stop that you don't ever get to that point of arrogance, where you're kind of like, Oh, you know what? I'm an expert. I know enough. I don't believe that. I don't again, I think I I don't think I'm smart. Anybody else. I think I'm just more willing to put it out there and share it, which somehow means that people think I've got more answers than everybody else. And that's not the case. But the compliment, then to knowledge, I think is an attention to detail. Because just simply having the knowledge is a great start. But I think it's the way that you apply it. It's the way that you apply your craft, because that attention to detail is what really puts you on the path to becoming a Master craftsperson because you select all the details, everything is important. And so I think that ultimately whenever you will look at somebody and think that they are really great craftsperson, and I think that for me craft is a broad word. I think that you can be fantastic. As a designer, craftsperson, I think you can be a fantastic leader, craftsperson, I think that all the things that we talked about, really have a craft to them a dedication, a humility that needs to be there a dedication to getting that knowledge and a dedication to attention to detail. So I think that was why it started there for me, because everything starts within should always be grounded in your craft. You can never get too far away from it, you can never become disconnected from it. Because for me, that's why I continued to want to work as a designer to be able to do that. I need to stay grounded in that reality because if not, I become untethered from it. And then everything becomes theoretical then I don't have that ability to be the insider and the outsider, the insider who is the Craftsman person who is actually in there doing the work, understanding what's going on, who sees the challenges and what those things are, but then the outsider who's able to step back and look at craft in a slightly broader sort of term. But I think that you need both of those. But that's why, for me whenever I think about great work whenever I think about, and a lot of it for me was to go to talk to, to go to think about the people who I really admire the people who I think do exceptional work. And I think in all of them, there is just such an insane attention and respect that is paid to their craft, in all of its different forms. So that's why we started there. And so then from craft, we move on, to originality, and originality is something that I think becomes a larger part of this equation as you go on through your career. Because most of the time whenever you're starting, originality is what you are struggling for. But as you are in that knowledge phase, you often will mimic other people. That's how many People learn, you got new copy what other people do you copy an artist you like you do something like that, so that you can start to figure out what is your voice, but it is just that ability. And in many cases, I do think originality is the ability to use and grow your creative process over time. And that those for me really are the two then dimensions of a real originality are creativity and growth. Because, again, as I look at the things that you need to be able to have, and I think the some of the things that over time can fade away is that in some people, the creativity may start to fade where they just get into this rut of just doing execution, which is then again, why they don't come back and feel that love for creativity feel that sense of creation and growth meaning, honestly that the work you do tomorrow is going to be better than the work you did today. And how do you do that sustainably over the arc of your career which will be 510 2030 4050 50 years long, that is an insanely long arc of time to be able to have that drive. But I think creativity just is your ability to understand how do you have ideas? And then to be able to work on getting better for how do you then some of those ideas, how do you summon your creative process on demand. And this is something that takes years of work, years of dedication, I've talked about this in other shows, because I think it is the ability to again take that almost craft like person to continue to invest in this because the other reason why creativity is so tricky, is because it is based on who you are, what you have done, what your experiences are, how you feel the stage of your life. And so while you are working on that, the inputs are changing. Think about who you were 10 years ago, five years ago, one year ago. Again, like think back to last October. What were you doing? Where were you at in your life? You were a different person. So I think this is why creativity. And again, I think this is why for me again that craftsperson, like approach is so important, because it's not. And none of this is ever done. And I think on the one hand, that's the great possibility. That's what keeps us really interesting. On the other hand, sometimes it can be frustrating as hell, because it's just like, Can I not just get it right for a little bit of time before I change, something else changes like, Can I not just enjoy it? And that's part of the challenge. But I think that it is that ability to start to not let your creativity be happenstance, to be able to say, I need to, and increasingly as you go on in your career, we'll have to be able to summon that creativity on demand. You don't have the luxury of just going to get lost in the tools or being able to kind of spend days and days and days coming up with a direction for your team or the people you work with or if you do There is just simply the reality that then that puts limits on your career. And that that's not what most people ever want. But this is where the growth piece comes in. Because growth is your ability to create new ideas, new things, new relationships, to be able to grow yourself, and to be able to grow with other people, because creativity is a team sport. And I think that's the push and pull of doing something like this. It's something I've thought about and wrestled with is that this is a very individualized formula. So how do we bring in other people into this to know that, again, we aren't off existing, doing like a watercolor of our spirit animal wearing a parade just off on our own, like doing that is called Art. What we do is design design means that there's a commercial output to this, which means that we're doing something to affect business behavior, money, something like that. But that's the thing is how am I growing because I think that that also tends to be the unspoken frustration for a ton of creative people is that when you aren't growing, you start to get very frustrated, you start to get restless, but I think most of the people I talked to, they don't know why they can't put their finger on it. And I think whenever you spend a little time with them, and when you press on a little bit, in many cases, it comes back to growth. They aren't, their work isn't getting better. They don't feel like they're doing new things, they aren't being challenged, they aren't, again, knowing that the work they do tomorrow is better than the work they do today. Because growth is a huge feeder to originality, because that's that part is if we feel like our voice is not evolving, we aren't doing these sort of things, we aren't making an impact, then again, that originality gets really affected and again for what it is that we do. That is a huge definition. It's a huge, positive or negative in our careers is to feel like are we getting better? Are we growing? We are not the type of people who just simply say I want to go out and do the same thing over and over and over and over again, without evolving. So I think that's those two dimensions. Creativity and growth, both really ultimately ladder up to originality because originality is how much is our creative process evolving? What is the work that we are doing is is it getting better? But I mentioned that other word a second ago, which was impact. And because I think that that's what I said before, creativity is a team sport. So impact is your ability to solve problems and make a difference with the work with your clients, with your customers, with the people that you work with, because impact again really pulls out into two different things. The first is, what problems are you solving and do those problems, you know, in the solution to them? Do they make a difference? Is the team getting better? Is the work getting better? Our customers happier? are you growing like what? What problems are we solving And then are they the right problems because here again, this is another thing that I see,

Unknown Speaker : 17:04

you might be able to go out,

Stephen Gates : 17:06

you might be solving a ton of problems you might be, again, working on your creative process, doing those sort of things. But at the end of the day, if you feel like what it is you're solving doesn't matter, that what you're doing the work isn't really affecting anybody that you're just it's like you're working for a company that talks to itself. You're working for customers, or clients or product or technology or anybody else who don't respect you. Then again, you're not solving problems or you're not solving the right problems. So ultimately, then you're not making an impact. And I think that is something that is incredibly important to us because the work is so personal. This work comes from us, you give us a blank sheet of paper, a blank screen. The mark that we make is personal because our creative process is personal. So we want to know that since this is something that is so personal is that what we're doing makes a difference and then Who isn't making a difference with? What are the groups of people that are being affected by this? What is the impact of your work on your customers? Is it really getting better? Are things getting better for them? Or like I said, Are we just simply talking to ourselves? Because you can do really pretty work, you can do a lot of those sort of things. But if it's not making an impact, if it's not making things better, then why are we doing it? And because ultimately, you know that that's your source of truth. And here again, this is why I see so many teams, so many creatives who get so frustrated is because they know that they're not making that impact because they know that they're designing for the wrong people. Other things like the impact you have on helping to support, work with and grow your team, and that you don't have to be a leader to be able to do this. The people who you whenever you think about right now, who's somebody you love working with? A name just popped into your mind. How are you able to help support them? work with them, get better with them, what's the type of impact that you're able to have? Because it feels good to be able to help other people, it feels good. Because here again, that's even the point of the show, right is to try to share this stuff to be able to make an impact so that somebody else can learn, somebody else can get better, maybe they can do it faster than you did, maybe they can do it better than you did. But then, as an extension past that as you look at and especially as you go on in your career, you're wanting to have an impact on the company you work for, or you listen to are you respected, or as again, because the the teams that are the most frustrated are the ones that are just told to make a pretty are the ones that are just told this is what it is you need to do or just told what is to do, they aren't respected, they aren't brought in as partners and as a result, then they don't have an impact. And so that lack of impact by either solving the wrong problems, talking to the wrong people, but ultimately knowing that you are putting your Heart and Soul, your blood, sweat and tears into doing this stuff. I mean, I've said so many times, there's so many different teams. We don't do this stuff for to be a suggestion. We don't do this stuff, just because it's like we've got nothing better to do that there's a real passion behind what it is that goes into this. There's a real personal connection to it. So we need to know that it has an impact. And in that there are so many traps, so many off ramps to lose the last part of this to lose the joy. Because I think that is the challenge is whenever you combine something that is so personal whenever you combine something that you love so much, but it's placed in the context of business, a world of deadlines and politics and hierarchy and a lot of other things that can honestly pretty easily suck the joy right out of that because it makes it into something else. It pollutes it, it makes it feel different, where it doesn't have that sort of purity to it anymore, that it's about a business. It's about whether people can tell you to do. And I think this is the constant struggle between creatives. And being in corporate and business structures is the tension between those two, sometimes it is really healthy. Sometimes it's really good. Sometimes it is absolutely toxic. And I think that for so many of us, we can see what could be, we can see the way things could be. And we take hope in that we tried to get to that. But joy, and then a second, I'll get to why I chose that particular word over other possibilities. But joy is just like your ability to love what you do, and to be happy while you do it. And for me, Joy is really driven out of three things. I think it's driven out of teamwork. I think it's driven out of passion, and I think is driven as strange reward as this might be to us in a context like this. I think it is true I love teamwork in that I know that I have the support of a group of people who want to make me and my work better, who trust me who respect me who, at the end of the day are a team. Not in that, you know, we're all in an org chart sort of way, but in a real human way. Because look, in so many cases, we know this, we spend more time with these people most times in an average day than we do with our loved ones or with our families or things like that. But the demands of this work is not insignificant. So for me that teamwork is so important, because if it's wrong, if it's fake, if it's toxic, man, it just, you just get to the point where you just you can't stand to deal with it because you know, that how it affects all those other things we talked about. My ability to work on my craft to actually to be original to make an impact especially can be so undermined by teamwork. But at the same point, whatever you find the people who are supportive, who do respect you who do give you that latitude, who push you who expect more from you, who give you the feedback, who are honest with you, who actually care, and care about you as a person, not in that, like, I'm going to give you feedback in a meeting. So I score brownie points with my boss bullshit, like not that it's how do you really do it in a truly supportive way? How do you actually come together? And again, even if you don't have the answer, you're there to listen, you're gonna be able to support those people. And I because I think that ultimately, so much of that teamwork is driven by passion. Your work is more than just a paycheck. And I think that's true of all of this, I think but that's where joy really comes from is that this is something you truly love. It is something that you truly want to do. You want to be with these people. You want to make things better. You want there is an emotional investment in what this stuff is. Because that's the challenge is whenever you're around the opposite of that when you're They're for somebody who's just there to be there from nine to five, who treats this as a paycheck as a means to an end. who don't necessarily understand where it is that they're going with this or what the end game is gonna be. It just feels different. I've never really quite known how to describe it. How do you pick it out? I've always just sort of it's like a sports metaphor of like game recognizes game. I am passionate I give a shit about what I do. I take it very seriously. And whenever you see somebody who doesn't, it affects you it It hurts. It is hard to be around those sort of people because they are that energy drain they take away all those other things for it. And man, I've been around some people who take it to an absolutely toxic extent. And to the point where I've just had to say look, it's it's not worth it. They're a cancer to me. They're cancer to the team. They just I can't do it won't do it. But it's because that does come into play so much. But the other part of passion because I think passion is that burning Emotional reactive sort of thing. But I think what sits underneath that is love. Because love it. Passion tends to be fleeting, right? Like, people are like, Oh, I want somebody who's passionate. I don't, right. Like, I think that it's good to be able to have it. But if that's your constant state, it's too volatile. It's too emotional. The love for me is the one that's more of that emotional connection, the emotional stability. And I think it's the connection to your work to your team, again, to what makes this more than just a paycheck. Do you really care about the people you work with? Would you go out and actually recommend and try to hire the people who you respect and love the most in this industry and bring them into your company? If the answer to that is no, you really need to think about why not? Because what it probably means is that something and you know it is wrong, is off. And I think that that's fine. Part of what this is, is that in all of these things, we need to be more deliberate in thinking about these things, and we need to be able to trust and listen to that voice inside of ourselves more, because I'm constantly amazed, I go out and speak at these events, I get emails, I get things like that from people who want career advice, what the end of the day, they don't actually want career advice. They want decision validation, meaning that they know that they should leave their job, they know that they aren't having an impact. They know that their originality of suffering, they know they're unable to work on their craft, they know they don't have joy in their job, some or all of those different things. But what it is that they're looking for, is validation. They know the answer, but what they want is they want someone else to agree with it. They want someone else to say it because then it makes it okay for them to go through with it. Because we all again, have this insecurity have this self doubt where we feel like if it's just a decision left up to us, maybe it's not good enough. Look, I get getting other opinions. But it's amazing to me time after time, whenever all I'll talk to these people, and I'll just say, look, here's what I want you to do. And what I want you to do is to answer this question immediately and with a yes or no. Should you quit your job? And 90 plus percent of the time, their immediate answer is yes. Because whenever you don't think about it, you know, the truth of it, there's a resonance that comes with you emotionally around all these other things when you know, when it's not working. You know, when you're not, you don't have the joy, right? And so it's interesting. And so why am I using the word joy and not happiness? Like, what is the difference? Why? And I think, you know, because I can back in Episode 27, did a whole episode around this, talking about just that. Because of all the parts of the equation. This is the one that I think I personally have struggled with the most. So it's probably the part that I thought about the most because I think you know, I've done this long enough that I've got a pretty good handle on my craft, I think I've spent a lot of time and a lot of personal reflection, trying to figure out originality, my voice embracing my crazy. I mean, again, it's, it's the point of what I've tried to share out in the show. And I think on the impact side, again, that's where as I've gone along, try to ratchet it up try to do that. But what it's left me with, has been this internal debate about happiness about joy about whatever that is, because one of the things that I've been very aware of is whenever you think about the idea of happiness, I started to become aware of the fact that it's kind of a transient state. It's a target very much in the way that we said passion is, is emotional, but it tends to be fleeting, I feel like happiness is kind of the same way. And the reason why I say that is because you set out a goal, you want to achieve something, you want to buy something, you want to go somewhere you want to get a promotion, you want to do whatever that is, so you've set out a destination or a target. Well, then the problem is, once you hit it, there's a variation. short lived euphoria, a very short live celebration where you're kind of like, yeah, I hit it. And you enjoy that I think the most for me has ever been like 24 to 48 hours tops. And then the problem is the feeling starts to fade. And the reason why that is is because your brain is recalibrating, it's starting to set new targets, you're starting to raise the bar. And so that happiness Target has now moved. And the thing that I've always struggled with was then I felt like that happiness would then leave. And then I was sort of reset back to zero to set off on the path again, to figure out how to get it again. I don't know what it's almost like this sort of like drug addict looking for another hit or something. But then for me, it was like, it became this sort of thing that whenever I wasn't hitting the target, then was I really happy. And so since happiness was a transient state that it wasn't the thing that I should be concentrating on. And I started to study myself and figure out what was missing and I think that that was the part of it for me where and maybe this is just me, I don't I would be fascinated to hear from other people but I felt like, for me finding joy almost needed to be a deliberate act. It needed to be a deliberate act in certain cases, for me to get rid of the things that were toxic to it were the things that were standing in the way of it. The things that weren't aligned to this formula. Sometimes that was people sometimes it was entire jobs where I needed to change. Because much like the distinction between honesty and candor that I talked about in one of the previous episodes, it's a subtle but important difference to understand the difference between happiness and joy. Joy is something I've been lucky enough to find in a few of my jobs. It's one that I've rediscovered in my current job, but I've also struggled and I've had it stripped away. Because joy is loving what you do in big and small ways. Every day joy is loving the people that you work with joy is having passion for what it is you do for understanding that you are supported by a team that you are making an impact that you do feel like your creativity and your growth is going on. And that you know you still have that sort of craftsperson, like approach to all of those things. So I think that again, this is one of those cases where, for me, this continues to be struggle, it continues to be something that I'm still working on. So again, like this is one of those cases where just because I'm talking about I'm able to put it into words, doesn't mean that I've got it solved by any stretch of the imagination, because I think it is, it's just I look at, I look at my portfolio, and all I see is what could have been better. I look at my teams, and I think about the people that I've let down or didn't mess with or didn't support or weren't happier. I didn't give them what it is that they needed. And I think it's really easy to fall into that trap. It's really easy to be the glass half empty. And for me, finding the glass half full has needs to be a bit more of a deliberate act, because I think that for me, that ability to look at somebody to question to rethink, to challenge. It's what's defined my career. It's what's brought my success, but it's also sort of what's kind of destroyed me at times. Because I haven't figured out the off switch. I haven't figured out how not to be that person all the time. Sometimes it makes me a real asshole to be married to Sometimes it makes me hard to be around sometimes. Because I, I struggle with the balance. But I think if those are the big parts of the equation, because I think as we know, it's not just simply as simple as you know, work and you do these couple elements, and it's like, yeah, you're a world class rock star, Congratulations, you've done it, right. Because there there are other influences that come into this formula. I think that there are a few of these that are worth calling out. Because they do influence the journey. They do influence the form, because like I said, creativity is a team sport. We don't do it alone. So yes, I think it is important to look at these things to re assess these things to understand where you stand with them, and where do you want to go with them, and to actually spend time thinking about it? because too many careers are just led by happenstance. They're led by people who will take what companies give them, not ask for what they want. They're led by their ability to just see how they develop as opposed to making a deliberate act. They are led by their ability to just sort of see what people tell them to work on, not what they know. They would like to work. On. So again, as I've said so many times before, this is why I come back to again, that thought of like success as a choice. But there is, I don't know what probably a number of different things that I think can affect this formula. Leadership is a huge one. leadership can have a positive or a negative effect on this equation all the time. If you're around great leadership, great management, people who support you, people who challenge you, people who trust you, people who actually invest in you, you can grow in leaps and bounds with what goes in to that formula. But in just the exact same way, if it is somebody who doesn't care about any of those things, who only wants you to be able to produce who doesn't really care how it is that you do it, he wants you to do it the way that they do, who doesn't respect you who doesn't listen to you, who tells you what it is that you think man can be a toxic and destructive influence on what this is? Because it can be such a big variable and I think In the positive side of that leadership comes mentorship. Because I think that will help you then figure out those parts of your equation that is that trusted advisor, that is that person who knows you who is invested in you, who takes the time to try to be able to look at the things that maybe you can't, because I think that's the other challenge for us. Because as we go on on our career, the growth is smaller, the leaps are smaller, because natural talent starts us off natural talent starts to carry us but over time, that's not the differentiator that it used to be. So what you have to start to do is to work on the hard things work on the things that aren't so easy work on the things that are a little bit more relegated to those dark, uncomfortable corners of your personality and your soul. And I think that's where mentorship can help because it can help you see those challenging places in new ways to help you see through that problem to understand what's really going on with it. And that can be an incredibly powerful thing to be able to have But as you go through and do that, I think that a lot of it is also and I think that I'm amazed at how many senior leaders that I work with talk to even having done it myself, because I think it is what has driven me to get the tattoos I have to go to talk about the stuff that I have is your ability to make peace with yourself, to accept you for who you are to understand that where you came from, to understand what you've done isn't a weakness to understand that nobody fits in. Nobody ever had like the script or whatever everybody thinks should have happened. Like not everybody got the chance to like, grow up and have a perfect childhood and go to their older right schools and come out and get a great job and like be a rock star right away and drive a Ferrari like whatever this myth is that we sell ourselves. I think that that's the thing is I see so many incredibly talented, creative people, so many incredible voices that can't figure out how to make peace with themselves. And I think that's so often this is compounded because the leadership and the mentorship that works with them. We misdiagnosis as lack of confidence. And in many cases it's not I think that the lack of confidence is just simply an expression of it. But the underlying problem is the fact that that person hasn't made peace with themselves. They haven't accepted who they are and what makes them they haven't accepted that you can't change it. And that that is what it is. You do too many people either dwell in the past or haunted by a tormented by using as an excuse why they can't move forward, why they can't do something. But I think it's a big variable for that. But then I think that there are those other things of whatever we've talked about doing this is personal. This growth is personal. This is not something that will work that we do does not have a right answer. So I think it is also much more susceptible to those negative influences, negative influences and bad leadership, bad clients and critics in trolls. In all those other things that have now emerged in this age of the internet, whenever it's so easy to dehumanize somebody, it's so easy to be that asshole who makes the idiotic random comment on LinkedIn, on Twitter, on Facebook, on whatever it is, who doesn't contribute anything, all they do is just simply point out what's wrong or why they disagree with it, or whatever that is, right? Like those people are a dime a dozen. And it's so easy, right? Because all they're doing is they're just making themselves feel better. They don't think about there's somebody on the other side of that they don't think about another opinion. I mean, shut our society is rampant with the fact that none of us consider that an opposing opinion might be valid or that somebody might believe in that be offended by it. Do something else by that we don't care. We are right all the time, whatever we think has to be right. But so for us, as people who produce something that that does have a personal connection to that product. That trend can be devastating. That trend can be so hard because I think whenever it's good, it is really great to feel that support to feel that. But I think it's also aware that those negative influences are going to be a part of this, they're going to be there, I guarantee you. And it is just simply, again, understanding and accepting that they're going to be a part of this equation. And if you give them too much weight, if you give them too much time, if you give them too much effort, then what you're doing is rewarding random stupidity. And it's just not worth it. But to think about that, that's just going to be there. And when it happens, look, it's fine, get upset, get angry, do whatever it is, don't turn into one of them, but understand what that is. But I think that those are those things is because that's what's going to happen with this is that there are gonna be other people are going to be involved in this process. And you have to realize and know that this work is not going to happen in a vacuum. This equation is not going to happen in a vacuum. But that's why it is important to think about what is your brand, what is your equation and to think about it over time, because things in each part of this equation are going to change over time. The business you work for will change the society it sits in will change the vertical that you are in will change who you are as a person will change. I can keep going and talking like that. But it's annoying. And I think it's just it is part of this is that there's never going to be a done, there's never going to be a write that we need to understand that having problems and growth and figuring this stuff out is part of the creative condition. I don't know how else to describe it. But these are the other variables that come into this. But here's what I want you to do is this equation is just simply meant to be a starting point, not a final answer. It's not a final answer for me. I'm going to be curious to hold on to this to revisit it to think about it to try to figure out is there a more sustainable way to do this? Is there a way to be able to turn this into an equation that everybody can start to plug in and start to think about? start to figure some of this stuff out. But here's what I want you to do. I want you to spend some time to think about what are the things that you need? In your equation, what are the things that make you happy? What are the things that drive your work? What are the things that you want and that you need? And what I would also want or ask is that as you start to think about that, put on social media, tag me share it, because I'm curious to see how much of it is the same? How much of it is wildly different? How much of this? Is there a commonality in the creative condition and how much of it is a variable? Because I also think that again, as we've talked about, we also need to start sharing more of this process, we need to start being more vulnerable vulnerability is the new economy. I continue to believe whenever it comes to leadership and our path forward. It can't just be about us producing pretty worth putting on our portfolio and then telling everybody how easy it was, because that is bullshit and not the truth. So let's start having this conversation. And let's do it by having us start to think about what are those things? What are the variables that I didn't think about? What are the parts that matter to you? There's not a right or wrong answer in this I'm not doing it to call it out or critique it or anything else like that. I'm doing it because I generally We want to start having this conversation at a really big level to start to figure out what are these things that matter? And then how do we start to get the companies we work for the leaders who we report to? How do we start having that conversation about how these are the things that matter that yes, we understand the business impact? Yes, we understand that we need to have KPIs and the things that come along with this. But if you want the innovation that you keep talking about, but if you want the Creative Leadership that everybody keeps writing articles about and droning on and on about, but nobody seems to be able to deliver, and nobody seems to be able to have the structure to support. Let's have that conversation. Let's start to do it with specifics, let's start to do it in a way that we understand what matters. And let's start to affect the change that we want and that we need. Because right now we are in this era where we have this massive opportunity to affect business. But the problem is those opportunities sit inside of structures that fundamentally more times than not, do not support the way that we want or need to work. How do we change it? How do we think about it differently? How do we put it in terms we can come together to have a discussion around. And not just simply say, it's not working, not just simply discuss who owns the process does product don't just tack on it does design on, it's not about ownership. It's about the fact that creativity is a shared condition, we all have it, most of us have just simply forgot. But we all have it. So again, I think that's the thing that's going to be important is to be able to start to think about this. But start with you start with that equation for you. Because that's the one thing in all of this, that we all can control. You can't control everybody else. You can't control what they do. But the thing that we can control is us. So let's start there. And start to think about that. And as you start to think about it, share it when you're done, share what's an in process. But let's start to have this conversation to see what does that look like? And how do we start to make each other better and come together to affect the change that we all talk about, but it's a little bit too slow incoming. So hopefully, once again, hopefully you found this helpful. Hopefully you found it insightful If not great, tell me about it. I'd love to figure out how do I get better because like I said, I'm going on this journey too. And so look, no matter what you think about it, go subscribe to the podcast. It's all on all your favorite podcast platforms. You can always find the notes about this podcast, find related articles find other episodes all that stuff you can now head to the new URL which I'm gonna have to get used to saying head to the crazy one that's crazy and the number one.com I hate to break it to you they wanted three grand a month for the crazy one one spelled out o n e and you

Unknown Speaker : 43:31

know I just

Stephen Gates : 43:32

don't have that kind of money to be able to invest into a hobby so we bought the number one which was like 150 bucks for 10 years much more affordable. But because I'm not gonna be the guy that does like a Patreon campaign just afford a URL that's stupid. We do something like use the money for yourself, have fun. But look, follow me social media channels reach out like the show on Facebook. Just go to The Crazy One podcast on Facebook like the show post up up there all the time. As always, everybody down illegal wants me to remind you that the views here are my own. They don't If like any of my current or former employers, they're just me here talking to myself. If you liked the show, leave a review, tell people what you think. And as always, I said every time because I'm muted every time, but thank you for your time. I know that time is truly the only real luxury that any of us have. And I'm always incredibly humbled. You want to spend any of it with me. So go out, think about your equation, start to figure out how to you take more control of that and all the while. Stay crazy