Creativity is all about collaboration which is why, whether you are leading a team or part of it, giving great feedback is an essential skill. In this episode, we will look at the two types of feedback, a model to give great feedback and some critical things to always keep in mind.
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Creativity is all about collaboration which is why, whether you are leading a team or part of it, giving great feedback is an essential skill. In this episode, we will look at the two types of feedback, a model to give great feedback and some critical things to always keep in mind.
SHOW NOTES:
http://thecrazy1.com/episode67
FOLLOW THE CRAZY ONE:
Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook
What's going on everybody, and welcome into the 67th episode of The Crazy One podcast. As always, I'm your host, Stephen Gates. And this is the show where we talk about creativity, leadership, design, and all kinds of things that empower creative people. Now, be sure to subscribe to the show. So you get the latest episodes whenever they come out. And whenever you're over there on your favorite podcast platform, take just a couple minutes and leave a review of the show. So everybody knows what you think about it. Now, we talk an awful lot about creativity on this show. and creativity is all about collaboration. Amazing things happen when people work together. That's exactly why we're going to talk about the subject we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about feedback. Because the problem is that great feedback is easier said than done in this case. That is literally true. This is the thing is what we're working on doesn't have a right answer. Sir, it has different goals, different perspectives, all kinds of different things that come into play. So whenever we do what we do in whatever form that it is, we need to be able to work with other people, we need to understand what they like and what they don't we need to be able to react to it. As we all know, the worst thing, the worst thing that you can hear from somebody is I don't like it, do whatever you want, make it better make it pretty. That's the one that everybody's soul dies. A little. I always think that's like, whenever somebody walks up to comedian and they go, Hey, be funny. That's our version of that. So in this episode, we want to talk about feedback. We want to talk about what are the different types of feedback? What's a good model for actually giving feedback? And then what are some of the other things that you need to think about, just in general, because I think that this is that uncharted territory, the gray space that it sits between the tools and our methodologies. It sits in this kind of undocumented space and I think that a lot A lot of people don't give it the respect it deserves. They don't give it the time it deserves. And they don't give it the thought that it deserves. Because in so many cases, these are those little moments that I talked about that add up to something big that add up to something great. The moments come through feedback. So that's what we're going to talk about and dig into today. For starters, it's understanding the great feedback is about a whole lot more than just what gets said. If you take a step back, and you really think about it, great feedback is about trust. Do I trust what this person is saying? Do I trust that they have the project's best interest in mind? Do they have the team's best interest in mind? Do they have the works? best interest in mind? Do I trust what they have to say? Because I think that's the very start of great feedback is the fact that you can trust each other and I think whenever I see teams, and especially whenever I see leaders who run over the work, who have huge amounts of turnover, who have This constant pray to people that are coming through it because they don't trust them. I've said it before other people have said before, it's not my line. But I really believe it that people don't quit jobs, they quit leaders. And the reason why they do is this is a big part of is, is over trust. As we think about feedback, and as we think about trust, a lot of that really starts with what is the intent behind the feedback you're going to give. And whenever I think back over my career, the leaders I work with the teams that have been a part of, there are probably two basic types of feedback, one that build trust, and one that destroys it. And whenever I go through these examples, and as you're sitting there listening, in your car, on the train, wherever it is that you're listening to the show, I'm gonna bet that you were going to immediately think of people who have done both of these types of feedback to you. And what I want you to do is whenever that person comes into your mind, because I think that they are probably naturally just gonna happen you're gonna immediately think Somebody's both good and bad. Take just an extra second to think about how do you think about those people, the ones that were positive and built trust, I'm guessing you respected them. They were probably mentors, there was somebody that you went to, they were a, like the very concept implies a trusted source. Somebody that you could go to that you knew was going to make things better. But then think about the opposite. Think about the ones who are the negative, the ones that again, I'm betting, you didn't trust, you hated to present to them. You hated whenever you knew that you're going to need to go in and talk to them because you knew that they were just going to make things worse. They weren't going to be constructive. They weren't going to think about much probably beyond themselves. But in both cases, I want you to just take the time to understand the impact of both of those relationships, the impact of what the feeling was that you had towards people like that. Because again, that's the heart of it is this goes beyond just trust that it does influence work because the people who you liked and respected the ones that you trusted, were the ones you wanted to work harder for, I'm betting the ones who didn't. The ones who were the ones who didn't look forward to the ones you didn't trust, I'm betting, you did just enough, just enough work to get it past them. But that's why this is so important. So the two types of feedback that I'm have been very aware of, I think the negative one, the one that that really breaks down trust is destructive feedback. You've just realized what this is like, right? Well, you've just thought of this person. destructive feedback, are the people who only point out what's wrong. They just want to come in and kind of swoop and Poupon everything. That's why this phrase was created was for people like this. And they very much come from this place of like, I'm in charge. So do what I say. They make statements. They don't ask them any questions. They will, in some cases, make these very big, vague things about make it prettier. Make it better do it this particular way. And those that sort of destructive feedback is really hard to work with in for a few different reasons. I think one is, what do you do with it? What do I do with do it this way, either I get run over by it and just choose to agree with it. Because I don't want to fight I don't want the energy it's going to take to be able to push back on this to make it something better. So I just simply go along, you decide you want to fight it, which usually tends to not end very well with personalities that are that way. Or you just aren't sure what to do when it comes to the work because either they've been very directive, and that leaves no room for creativity for you. They said something you didn't agree with, or they were so overly vague that you just don't know where to start. So it becomes this sort of guessing game of Let's read the tea leaves. Let's figure out what exactly were they talking about. Now the opposite of that, the better way to do it, is about constructive feedback. This is about how do you make things better Better, how do you come in and make the work better? The team better the people better, but how do you do it while you respect to them? How do you leave space for them to do their work? And that's really what this show is gonna focus on is the constructive side of that because any asshole can give constructive feedback. Any idiot can point out what's wrong. I mean, turn on any TV station, turn on any radio, I don't care what your orientation is on politics or anything else. I guarantee you, you're gonna hear one side vilifying the other because it's just easier, right? It's It's so low energy. And it's just so easy to do. Being constructive, being hopeful, investing in other people, takes more work, takes more time, takes more love takes more passion takes more joy, right? And that those are the things that are hard for a lot of people takes vulnerability. But that's why this is so important because feedback really much like leadership, creativity, so many other things is about balance. Because on the one hand, it needs to be strong, it needs to be clear. It needs to provide leadership, it needs to make things better. So that there has to be an opinion behind it. But even the right idea, the right opinion, the right insight presented wrong, still comes off as wrong. So it's not just thinking that you were right, or that you had the right insight or that you had whatever that is. That's just the very first part of it. It's the presentation piece of that, that makes such a huge difference as well. And you need to do it in a way that, like I said before, it leaves space and respects the team's creative process. It challenges them to find new solutions. And then it actually makes things better. This is where I would encourage you to go back and revisit an episode I did a little while ago that talked about leadership as sort of a 10 8010 model. This is why I talk about these things. Because on the one hand, if you're working with a team, you're in the team, leading a team any role, you want to make things better. You have a voice you have ability pinion, that needs to be contributed to the process. But you need to do it in a way where it leaves space for other people. Because if you do this, like with so many things, if you do it with the intent of giving feedback to be right, that's destructive feedback, destructive feedback wants to be right. Creativity is not about, right. Because if you're right, then somebody else is wrong. And that's a very sort of coke, Pepsi cat, dog black or white kind of situation. Either again, I agree with you, or get run over by you neither, which are great options for me, neither which options are gonna keep me with this team, keep me doing this work keeping me with this company. But that's the balance is to be able to find those sorts of things. So how do you strike that balance? Because it can be difficult. And I think one of the things for me is that I always try to use kind of a simple model. That'll help me strike that balance, give the best feedback, and it's a three part model to be able to do this because yeah, I think that, you know, there times that at 1010 model 10% of the time, you know what, just leave me alone, let me do it 10% of the time, we're out of time and patients tell me what to do, but 80% of the time, that's where we want to live. And so the model that I really try to work towards has three pretty simple steps. So they're easy to remember. They're to simply identify, understand and propose. Identify is, whenever I'm looking at something, something doesn't feel right. It feels like something can be better, it feels like I have something to contribute. Very simply, just what do I think needs to be solved or improved? Because if I can't be clear about that, if I'm not sure about what that is, how am I going to be able to communicate it to anybody else? How am I going to be able to go through and tell somebody else what they need to improve upon? And it sounds so simple, but imagine, not even imagine, just think, think back about all those times. You've been in a meeting, you've been around a boss, you've been around a creative director, you've been around another designer, who will just sort of talk in circles who will who you can tell that they have an opinion. They can't express it. They can't talk about it, they can't articulate it. And so they turn into these 20 minute, 30 minute 45 minute hour long sort of just circular conversations, while they are out loud trying to identify and think about what is the actual problem that you're solving for. And this isn't one of those moments where I also can say that I think that there are times that identifying does not mean, answering, identifying just simply means Do you know, what you think needs to be better, that's all you want to do in this state is just simply identify what that is because most people will, as we've talked about, in any creative process, they're going to want to run to the answer. And we're going to talk a bunch coming up in the next couple of minutes about why that's not what necessarily you want to do. It doesn't mean don't have an opinion, but again, don't be so concerned of being right. Now understand for that next step is that if you see something that again, you know, is a problem. First off, is don't just jump in and say that's wrong. Because somebody appear somebody on your team, somebody did it for a reason, or at the very least, we will go in and assume that they did it for a reason. And if not, that's a separate conversation about why are they just simply doing things because they look pretty or something like that. But to go in with the assumption that again, somebody did this for a reason. And so even if I think it is 180 degrees away from where I think it needs to be, have the patience, take the beat, to just ask the question to understand the thinking and the decisions instead of making statements. Because what I want to do is I want to understand where the team is, I want to understand what was their thinking, I want to understand why did someone do this? Because the other part of it for me is that if I just simply make a snap assumption, decided this is what I need to do, and go and shoot my mouth off. Yeah, maybe some of the time I'm right. But probably more than likely a bunch of times I might be wrong. If there's a meeting I missed maybe a piece of research I didn't see, maybe there's a blind spot or some piece of arrogance that I've got. That is forcing me to see something in a way that I shouldn't. So don't be so arrogant as thinking that your opinion is bulletproof, that everything that you think is so perfect, because as I said before, since this is about finding solutions to problems that don't have definite solutions, blind spots and arrogance become a really big problem. And that's why when we get to this third part, I've identified what it is. I've taken a beat to understand why is it in the state that it's in? Why have the decisions been made? Then that's the last thing I want to then do is propose. Because that's that moment where I want to propose a possible outcome. And the word propose is very deliberate. It's not solve. It's not say this is what to do. Because be specific about the problems that you see but give those Problem is enough space, that I'm sure that I'm giving them problems to be solved, not solutions to be vetted. That simple mindset shift. That's simple change. Instead of saying, do this, sketch this, go do this, make this button this color, right? Instead of doing that respect to people who work for you. Do this crazy thing, hire smart people, and then trust them. The best teams do that. That's their secret sauce. And then even once you have proposed what it is you think, do this other crazy thing of actually discussing it with people don't make it just a statement. Don't just simply propose this thing, because even proposing something, under the wrong circumstances, heard the wrong way, positioned the wrong way. Sounds like a statement. So make sure that people are discussing it and that you're providing a safe space for that to happen. And be aware and look at you know, take a step back and before it comes out of your mouth. Are you giving constructive feedback or destructive feedback. And I think that that's why that 10 8010 rule is so important. Why I would say if you don't know what that is go back and listen to that episode, because it really just looked at 10% of the time. I want to respect people so much, I just wanna leave them alone, because they need to work through something 80% of the time is where I'm going to do this, I want to propose, propose an insight, a thought, a direction a problem, something that I want them to go explore. And then only in the last 10% of where I spend my time do I want to say go do this, but that being a nuclear option, because at that point, I am out of time, patients political capital, budget, or other important currencies that make the team go round. And that at that point, I just simply need something to get done. But that's why in this case, it's making sure that you find that balance because on the one hand, you need to have an opinion. You need to contribute. Don't just sit on the sidelines, don't just to do that, especially if you're a leader. Don't Don't just sit on the sidelines, but at the same time Be aware of what your title is. Be aware of what your position is, be aware that your answer is not going to be weighted the same as everybody else's. So do things like speak last, do things like make it a discussion, do things like, especially that understand part of things so that you understand why people made the decisions they did for two very important reasons. One is so that my feedback is calibrated. And so again, I'm sure that I'm not a blind spot. But to if there is a behavioral problem there. If there is a thinking problem there, then I can see it for what that is, I can turn that into a coaching moment, I can turn that into something where I can sit down with that person and have a conversation about Yes, there's this sort of problem with the work. But there may be an underlying problem with the approach with the process, with the thinking with what it is that they're actually doing to go about that work. And how that is probably more important than the actual work itself, because that'll be a lasting ongoing problem that I'm going to need to continue to come back and to wrestle with, but just use that simple model, identify, understand, propose? Identify, understand, propose, use that model. And like I said, You're it's going to take you a little bit of time to find the right balance. So give yourself a little bit of a break, give yourself a little bit of slack. Because sometimes you may lean a little bit too far to the identify and understand where you're not speaking enough. There may be other times you lean a bit too far the other way, and you're being a little bit too prescriptive. But this is why it's important to continue to do this to continue to practice it to continue to refine your style to be able to look for how do you find that right balance of feedback. But inside of that model, there's a few other things that I think you just need to think about. Think about whenever you're in the moment, think about whenever you're giving feedback, because there are also a few other nuances that I think can make a really big difference. And so, these are just a few other things that I want you to keep in mind. The first one is to keep in mind that there are different types of feedback and that is important to understand the type of feedback The individual, the team, what whatever it is that you're working with, that they're looking for. It could be just that on the surface of it feedback, just an unvarnished What do you think? Sort of a thing, right? Like, just tell us? What are your insights? What can we make better? It could just be high level insights could just be something really big, like directional, like, do you just think that directionally This is good, could be the opposite could be details like they really want you to get into the details, they really want you to be able to press in on like the little pixels and things like that. But even in that case, confusing insight for details, would yield a vastly different feedback for me. Because if all you're looking for is big, high level feedback, do I think you're going in the right direction, that's a certain level of granularity a certain level of thought, a certain level of feedback, that's going to be vastly different than if I'm sitting there picking apart every little detail of the design. So you need to make this a part of the process whenever you go in People declare what it is that they're looking for so that you can calibrate the team can calibrate to what it is that they're looking for. Because that's why I said in so many cases, you walk in assume that all these are finished designs. No, maybe they're not. And so that's the thing is assumptions will kill you. So be declarative about this. So you understand the type of feedback they're looking for. Another more subtle thing is that I think whenever you're creating, brainstorming, giving feedback, one of the biggest things that I see that teams don't do that is incredibly important, I think, in many cases will often really crush creativity is that they have not defined When are they going to leave their titles, their job titles, titles, mean job titles at the door, and one of the times that they're not. And the reason why I think this is important is because there are times in the creative process whenever you're brainstorming, there are times whenever you're creating whenever everybody needs to be equals whenever everybody needs to come in. that everyone's voice, everyone's opinion, carries the same weight. Because if you don't actually declare that, then that doesn't happen. What happens is the people with the most senior titles, the people, the biggest jobs, people with the biggest voices, and egos tend to be the ones that get disproportionately heavier weighted feedback. They're the ones that are listened to more. The people who are a little bit quieter, the people who don't talk out as much their opinions seem to count less. Well, that's the thing is that you need to think about how do I level the playing field? And part of that is, again, when do I leave titles at the door? Whenever I say I don't care what our level is, when we're in this moment, in this time in this space, we're all equals. And all of our opinions count equally. But I think you also need to be able to go through and then figure out what are the times that that does matter? And how do you declare that so that people understand the difference because like I said, there needs to be leadership, there needs to be hierarchy, there needs to be progress, if anything is just simply democratic all the time. As much as in an ideal world, I think we felt like Well, that would be the way it would be great, right? Like, if we're just a meritocracy, that would be fantastic. I think that it's a great theory, I haven't just haven't seen it work in practice, because I think that you need a team that trust each other, to really be able to pull that off too. And you need a team that's extremely driven to be able to pull that off, that there are times whenever Yes, everybody absolutely needs to be equal. So everyone contributes everyone in the body and everybody's part of the team, the work is better and stronger, because everybody knows that whenever you show up, regardless of your level, regardless of your title, that everyone is going to hold you accountable for your best work. And if you deliver anything, but your best work, they're going to call you out on it, they're gonna let you know about it, they're gonna be able to do that and that needs to go from the top of the organization to the bottom. But that only happens again when we leave titles at the door. But there are other times whenever you do need that sort of hierarchy, but be deliberate about it. be thoughtful about it, declare what those times are. Talk about it, say it out loud. Don't just assume, because again, assumptions will kill you. We touched on it. Little bit as we've gone through, but the other part of it whenever you're giving feedback is that and especially I think this becomes a real issue that leaders will struggle with. You need to be direct and honest. Honest, even when it's hard, because that's the problem is when you dance around something, maybe you don't take it on head on whenever you don't really talk about what the issue is. This issue doesn't go away. This you just gets further down the road, there's it gets harder to deal with the issue gets bigger, because you let it escape, let it get on down the road. So you need to be direct. You need to be honest, you need to hold each other accountable. Because that's the problem is and I've had this as an experience on some of my own teams. You can be polite and a mediocrity. You can get to be polite and nice and not talk about what the issues are and continue to do all those things where again, we're going to be really nice and and do those things. It comes with a cost to the work it comes to the cost of being great it comes at the cost of so many other things that it will be platanus and immediate Pretty. Now by direct and honest, I don't mean be an asshole. Don't ever, ever make it personal. Keep it to the work, keep it constructive, not destructive. Because here again, that's the point where most people get into trouble is they think direct and honest means destructive. They think direct and honest means being an asshole. They didn't direct and honest, because that's what direct analysis has to be right? Like how can direct honest be constructive? This is where leadership is failing us for this particular generation that we're a part of. Because we think that direct honest has to be mean, has to be hard, it has to be destructive. I would argue the exact opposite. I think you lead with empathy. I think you lead with vulnerability. But I think you lead with a directness and an honesty that people know and respect because it is something that is so sorely missing. It is something that quite frankly irritates the shit out of me on such a regular basis whenever people will tell me how refreshing it is that I'm so direct and honest. This is me off that it is that rare, that it's worth calling out. It's that rare. Something's wrong. It's that rare. Something's wrong. With your team in your organization that needs to get fixed. So again, be direct and honest, but be constructive in the way that you do it. Also, whenever you do it, watch your egos. Watch that blind spot. sentences that start with a high things like that. And because what you need is you need a source of truth, you need to refer back to it. You need to be able to talk to customers, you need to be able to talk to people who are unbiased in the process, you need to have some source of truth that you can refer back to not that it's my opinion versus yours or my opinion versus the team's, or my opinion versus anybody else. Because that so often is where we get tripped up in doing feedback as well, right? Because it becomes this opinion war, this ego pissing contest right about who who can shout the loudest who can hang on to it, you know, the longest who can just really beat a dead horse on those sorts of things. But that's how you get around all that. Because there are some times whenever the feedback shouldn't come from a leader there's sometimes when feedback in many cases shouldn't come from a client shouldn't come from the team. It needs to come from a source of truth. Like a customer. It blows my mind that we are in a time. Whenever that needs to be a conversation about hey, you know, those people you're designing for, hey, you know, those people you're creating for? Here's a wild idea. Why don't you go talk to them and see if they actually want what you're building? Because there is truth in that. The problem is, is the truth and most of us don't want. We don't want people to say I don't like it. We don't want people. We don't want the downside, right. Like we just want the love. It's creatives. We're egotistical people, that's what happens. But that's why I think you need that source of truth to refer back to, because it keeps everybody including you, honest, and then that is the best sort of feedback again, direct and honest, because that's the problem. That's why we love and hate talking to customers because they don't have an agenda. They don't understand politics. They don't understand the strategy, team dynamics, anything else. They don't understand the ego pissing contest we're getting into they just simply understand the product as they see it in front of them, the design, whatever it is that we've created in front of them too, that is pure. And that that's what we struggle with. Because we like to crowd crowd it up, we like to be, again, played into mediocrity. That's a really big problem. I think you also want to try to make sure you keep that feedback loop as small as you can. When there is a problem, there's a tendency to bring in more and more people, right to do this group think, to be able to kind of say, Oh, well, you know, if we're struggling with this, and that, again, we're not getting the solution that we like, well, then we must need more people. You need to go through and make sure that again, this is where that source of truth becomes extremely useful. I don't talk to five customers and 60 executives, because in those five customers are going to be real feedback, real insight, real truth. In those executives. Now it becomes a political war, a strategic political juggling game, right? But that's why you want to keep it as small, as clean as truthful as you can. Because in so many cases with the best feedback The best feedback is the feedback that doesn't make it about you. Because that's where the worst feedback comes from. It comes from people who make it about them. It comes from people who think that that's the source of truth. That's what being in charges, right is that it's giving feedback that everyone acts on that they bow before me and do what it is I say, and Haha, I'm in charge. Yeah, you know what small leaders are made out of that small lead and people who don't understand what it is they're doing to do things like that. I mean, I'll tell you that most of the times, the thing that I've experienced is that underneath that facade of power, that, you know, facade of a lot of those sort of things is somebody who's wildly insecure, who does not understand how to lead teams, and is just simply trying to compensate for it by putting up enough of a shell and exterior and edifice of an asshole that keeps people far enough away from seeing the problems that are actually underneath. Because people who care about their team, people who care about the feedback people care about the work, let people in. And that's the thing is that this is More art than science. And I think whenever you let people in, it's important. They can understand your thinking they can understand your rationale. But also in those moments, you need to take a moment to think about what matters to you. Because if you're not gonna make it about you in the feedback, you need to make it about that source of truth, what the part that is about you. And the part where this gets a little bit confusing, is what is the acceptable standard? Because that's more of what comes into it. That's more of the individual, especially on the leadership side. What are the norms you establish? What are the standards that you set? How far are you going to take it? How far do you want to push it? For it to be great? How deliberate even almost brutal, are you willing to be with that feedback? Because that's the thing that I've seen the best teams. The ones who do the best work, have an almost brutal pursuit of the best, almost a brutal pursuit of honesty, with each other and with a lot of others. Other things, because it's that standard, not the feedback. Again, the delivery is something different. But the standard that that feedback gets measured against the standard against which we're pushing for. That's where you separate the good from great. Because if you're just simply willing to understand that good is what you're gonna take, if you catch yourself saying things like the work is good, or I like it, those are compromising phrases. Those are phrases that settle for any something less than fantastic, or less than great. And look, I'm, I'm really well aware you don't die on every hill, not every project has to be great. But there are those ones and you know what they are, where they have that potential. There are those ones where you wish it could be better. There are those ones that lead to the emails that I get from people who will talk to me about how I talk about creativity and leadership about ways that they wish it was in ways that they can't quite get to. That's the difference. Is that whenever it is those sorts of ways, whenever it is great. You don't compromise. You don't say things like, Oh, it's good, or I like it. It's great. You push for that it is hard. It is brutal. It can be lonely. There are times whenever it can be really difficult to push through that. But that's for all the opportunity that creativity presents us. That's the reality. And the challenge that it gives us is because it can just be good. I like it's okay, good, good enough, I think the client will buy off on it. These are all phrases to ban. These are all phrases to think about that if they're coming out of your mouth. That it probably says more about you than the work or that the team that you're just being accepting of that. greatness comes out of the norms, you establish the standards that you hold people to, because too often people just find it easier again, to compromise to be destructive, to let it go to not really lean in on it to not make Make sure that it's great. Those are your decisions. Sure, you can put them on the clients or you can put them on the team. Sure you can put them on everybody else. But leadership, change. Anything in that form has to start with every single person on that team. I don't care if you're the most senior leader or the most junior part of that. It's got to come from everywhere. And if there's not a dedication to that, if that norm has not been established, if there haven't been these things we have discussed, when we leave titles at the door, what is the standard that we set? How do we want to do this? What really looks like success? What's the standard that we're going for? Those things go on said, Well, the reason why they go on said is because that way we can rationalize mediocrity so much more easily, so much easier. In those moments, right? Whenever you could have said something great. Well, the standard is unspoken. The way that we work remains unspoken, so that in those moments, I don't have to hold myself accountable that I can just take the easy road. But I think those are the best teams to be a part of that's the magic. I've rediscovered in my new job is what I have a team that even in the moments of my weakness, even in the moments whenever I just want to take the easier route whenever I want to succumb to political pressure or other things like that, to just give in to the easier answer, they will stand up and say, No, that's not what we believe in. No, that's not what we agreed to. And they hold me accountable. Because that's what you need is you need those sort of teams, you need those sort of dynamics where everyone will hold each other accountable to the standard, you hold each other accountable to what it is you do, because it matters. And that's the real part of what underpins feedback. Because like so many other things, if you just get caught up in the expression of the problem, we need better feedback. What does better mean? Look beyond it look to these sorts of issues, because that's where you make the difference. That's where you go from good to great. That's why I follow people that write me and say, How do I become a great designer? How do I become a great leader? It happens every time. single day, and every single moment and every single interaction when you're presented with the choice in which one you take, day after day, moment after moment, project after project client after client job after job add up to great or good. I like okay. But it's every single one of those. And that's why it's hard work. That's why not many people do it. Because they don't have. I don't know what energy, patience, dedication, insanity, craziness, who the hell knows to do it. But I want you to think about these things whenever you go back and maybe again, don't just jump in and say everything has to be different. spend a day or two and just watch. What's your dynamic with other people? What's the dynamic inside of the team? What are the standards that you're setting? What does feedback look like? You know, how we declared what is success for us? How do we declare it our process how we declared, you know, what is that dedication to each other. And just watch that before again, you go and just jump in. It's like chess everything for me, oddly enough comes in a lot of different ways comes back to chess. Because if I can't see the way to win, you don't move that next piece. You don't just blindly charge in hoping it's gonna be better. So watch think put together a plan, look at this stuff use that identify, understand propose structure to get better. So as always, I hope this has been useful. I hope it's something that again, you can take back and use in your job with your teams. If you do do me a favor go into your favorite podcast platform leave a review let people know that this actually works brings more people to the show certainly is motivating for me. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast so that you don't actually miss an episode. I am not the greatest whenever it comes to releasing these on a regular basis, but I think I am just hell bent on not letting an episode out until I feel like it's really worth releasing. But I'm not just simply going to do it to stay on an arbitrary timeline. Love it or leave it. That's what it is. But look, I think that as always, if you want to be able to get this Show Notes for this year and find out more about the podcast get related articles all that sort of stuff head over to podcast Stephen Gates calm Stephen remains STP h n gates like Bill Gates, look Follow me on every social media platform I'm on Twitter Instagram LinkedIn all those sorts of stuff sorry no Facebook are not friends in real life I'm not gonna be friends on Facebook. So don't get offended just one of my weird rules. But if you do head over to Facebook, I mean look, type in The Crazy One podcast go in like that page. I post articles all the time, answer questions, do all sorts of stuff there. But hey, look, you need help reach out on any social media channel. I'm here for you. As always, everybody down in league wants me to remind you that the views here are my own. They don't represent any of my current or former employers. These are just my own private thoughts. And finally, I say it every time because I mean it every time but thank you for your time. I know that time is truly the only real luxury that any of us have. was incredibly humbled. You want to spend any of it with me. So go out there, give better feedback, set some standards kick some ass and as always, stay crazy.