Ep 59 Career: Know when to quit and do it the right way.

In this insightful episode of The Crazy One, Stephen Gates breaks down the tough decision of leaving a job. Discover the seven clear signs that indicate it’s time to move on, learn how to avoid common emotional traps when considering new opportunities, and get a step-by-step guide on how to leave professionally after giving your notice. Tune in to ensure you make a thoughtful, confident choice and leave on the best possible terms for future success.

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Stephen Gates : 0:00

What's going on everybody, and welcome into the 59th episode of The Crazy One podcast. As always, I'm your host, Stephen Gates. And this is the show where we talk about creativity, leadership, design, and all kinds of things that matter to creative people. Now, if you like the show, be sure whenever you go into your favorite podcast platform that you hit subscribe while you're there. And also there take just a couple seconds leave a review for the show makes a big difference gets more people to the show. And it lets me know that people are actually listening. Now, this may seem like an episode that no one needs. But I'll tell you what, this is a subject that I think a lot of people need. Because what I want to talk about today, having worked with creative people, just having worked with people in general, for a lot of years, is I want to talk about how do you actually quit your job. And for those of you who don't think you don't need it, I have watched a lot of people leave companies and I can tell you that you do need it. Also because for me, this is kind of timely As yesterday, which was Friday, was the last day of my job at Citi. So this is something that is very, very fresh in my mind and was something that I definitely gave a lot of thought about whenever I was going to go ahead and put in my notice, and because that's the thing is like, I've always found it fascinating when somebody quits. It's fascinating because you really get to watch and see how a person really acts and really thinks, whenever there's nothing to lose, or whenever the other people can't do anything for them. And so I think is because of that, it just, it's something we need to think about more because in a lot of cases, it's the last memory it's the last thing that people will remember about you. Because if you come in every day, you come in late come in 10 or 11 o'clock you sit around you watch YouTube all day, you aren't really finishing things out. It's obvious you don't really give a shit about the team. You're just putting in your time and you want to move on and you're fine burning that bridge out the door says a lot about a person Honestly, I think as a Boston as the person who's left behind, it makes you question how committed was that person really in the first place to what it was they were doing. But I think if you do come in, if you do try to do things the right way, then that's something that again, says a lot about a person about what their commitment really was, whether or not you'd give them a recommendation in the future, a lot of these sorts of things because like I said, That's that last taste you leave in somebody's mouth before you go off along the way, is that last memory. And I think that for me, it's also fascinating to watch the way other people treat you, whenever you are the person that's leaving, whenever you can no longer do anything for them, you can't help them anymore, or you don't have any more power over them. I think those are the moments that you can really get a test of the way somebody is, if they genuinely are happy for you. If they genuinely care about you, if they do things like that. It makes you feel so much better and so much more authentic about the friendship that you might have or the relationship you might have built. If all of a sudden they don't talk to you, they keep away from you. It's obvious that now that you Can't do anything for them, they really have no interest in interacting. In many cases, that probably just confirms a gut feeling that you already had about them. But in either case, I think that moment, the moment whenever you put in your notice, it can shape more than people think about. It says more about other people than they may realize. And so today, I really just want to look at a couple things. The first is that honestly, before you even quit, just have a discussion about kind of like, what are some of the signs that it might actually be time to really go through with it. Because the other thing in that is that there's a word of warning that I want to talk about, because I think sometimes people can jump into shadow, they can make a mountain out of a molehill, they can leave before they really should. So just spend a moment on talking about that. Then to go through and to actually go through all the different things, all the different steps that I would recommend for whenever you actually do quit, what are the things you could think about what are the things that you should do? And to go through and do that and then finally, what we're going to talk about it Just some of the things you don't do. Because again, I think in that moment, it can be very tempting whenever you are suddenly freed of the shackles of politics, you're freed of the shackles of the power structure and other things like that you see the light at the end of the tunnel of going to something new. But like I said that new doesn't mean that you suddenly need to act like a fool. So that's what we're going to talk about on the show today. Before we even talk about how to quit your job, maybe we should take a few minutes and talk about how to know when it's time to quit your job. What are the signs? How do you know for sure. And I went through did a bunch of research reflected on my own experience. And I think that honestly, there's there's pretty much seven things that I think if you can identify with maybe two or more of these, then yeah, it probably is that time to have that serious conversation about is it time to move on? Is it time to do something different? Because the problem is it's not just work. In many cases, I think many of us spend more time at the people at our jobs than we do with our significant others. Husbands wives, boyfriends, girlfriends, pets, whatever it might be. And so it matters. I think it matters to me because I know that there's only so many minutes, so much time that we all have to be able to do the work that we love to do. And so I want to make sure that those minutes and those hours are spent on things that I care about. I want to make sure that it's spent with people that I care about, I want to make sure that it's doing work that I feel like is making a difference. And because if that isn't happening, then we have a problem. But that is so much of it is because there's the inescapable fact, in all of this, that whenever you quit a job, I think, especially when you're in a leadership position, there is absolutely no getting around the fact that it is a completely selfish act, because it is one of those moments where you've decided that AI is more important than we that my future is more important than the team as a collective. It's a hard decision. It's a tough thing to do. I think it's an even tougher thing to do if you genuinely actually care about your team. If you don't, then obviously, you know it becomes something that's much simpler, but if you do Do it's emotional, it's difficult. And it's something that a lot of cases people aren't really sure what to do. And I've seen too many people who leave a job too soon, because they want to make a statement or they get overly emotional. But at the same point, I've also seen far too many people who stayed a job far too long. They're recognized every year they get great reviews, they do all these wonderful things. Yet the problem is year after year, there's no career path for them. The work doesn't get discernibly better. But again, here is something that I've talked about in the past, they get trapped by that comfort is the enemy of greatness. And that's a real problem, because pretty soon they waste away slowly getting more and more frustrated, not completely sure why that keeps happening. But the one thing that I can tell you, undoubtedly, for what it is we do for honestly what anybody does, if you really love it, the connection between our professional lives and our personal lives are inextricably linked. If you are miserable at work, you'll be miserable to be around at home, and it's not okay. But so let's look Look at these seven things just kind of quickly to be able to give you just sort of like a grounding a foundation to be able to think about these sort of things to understand what should your next move be? The first one, the most obvious one. And it seems like this shouldn't even make the list. But I think that a lot of people may not necessarily think about it enough, is if honestly, you hate the work. If everything about that work or everything about your team rubs you the wrong way, you're not going to be motivated, not to be motivated to do better working out can be motivated to advance, you're not gonna be motivated to contribute. In many cases, you'll see this expressed by whenever your most talented people suddenly fall silent. It's a huge warning sign. But that's really the problem, especially for all of us, because there is and we've talked about this again, in the past, there is such an inextricable link between our work and how personal that is to us. You give us a blank screen, you give us a blank page, and you ask us to be able to make a mark to create something on it. What comes out of that is inherently personal. So if I'm not happy with it, if I'm not happy with it, team that I'm on, that will eat me away more than anything. So if that's that case, and this isn't one of those things where it's like you got a bad project, or you know, somebody on the team is temporarily grumpy, that is not the same. It's looking past the temporary problem. It's looking past, the thing that again, might just be a passing bad project or things like that. Because the reality is, we all get those that is a natural part of business is that in many cases, we're all asked to be role players. Sometimes you're the hero, it's the project that will be the absolute star in the center of your portfolio. But sometimes we're asked to be the role player to be the one that's going to have not enough time, not enough money, not enough budget, not enough patience to do it the right way, but it still needs to go out the door. But here again, if those exceptions if those miracles are suddenly being asked every day, and if they're being asked in a way that is not getting recognized, if they're being asked in a way where you're not building up any equity and it's not going towards anything, then this is one of those moments where it might be time to move on. If those two To the people the work if it's actually affecting your mental or physical health, that it's going to affect your relationship with your spouse, your family, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, whatever it is. And the thing that I can tell you is that no job is worth that sort of toll that it's taking on your life. There are some jobs that are stressful, but stress can be fun. Stress can be exhilarating if it is leading to something great. But here again, the problem is if it is unrewarded stress, if it isn't rewarded monetarily, if it isn't rewarded with a balance that keeps my work life balance in balance, if there aren't things at the end of it, where I feel like all this hard work is adding up to something that is better for my group that is better for something bigger than just this project. If I feel like I'm just simply being taken advantage of because that stress will break you down. I personally have experienced that where I have watched how bad my health can get whenever I'm really stressed out when I'm really pissed off when I'm really miserable in a job and then Whenever I've moved on from that position to watch my wife after a year, look at me and say how happy she is just to simply have me back, that the version that was here, the version that was so frustrated, the version that was so kind of angry with what was going on that that wasn't worth it. That whenever all that she wanted to do, she didn't care how much money I made, she didn't care what it was we did if we had to move, get a smaller house, whatever it was, if I could just be happy. Because here again, it is personal, it affects you, personally. And nothing is going to really make that work. The other part of it and you think about this stuff is that if you just don't fit in, because whenever you think about it, every culture, every team, Every company has different ways that they do things. They have different cultures, they have different ways they go about things. And that's one of those problems is that sometimes you can have the best skill set in the world. But if you don't mesh well with the organization there again, you won't be successful if they prioritize things differently than what you do. They prioritize politics so they prioritize. I don't know what these just sort of like land grabs are going out and trying to get as much as you can. But you prioritize people, you prioritize the work, you prioritize the end experience over those things within, there's gonna be a disconnect, because the people who are going to succeed, they're going to be the ones that play politics, the best that make the land grabs, the biggest that do those things, regardless of the people, regardless of the consequences that work or anything else in between. And so it's not going to work, the two of you aren't going to work, you're not going to mention it's not going to fit in. And so again, even if the work is great, but that fit is bad, then you're really going to run into a problem. You know, there's another one that again, I think is is the relationship that will probably be the single biggest one. I know that I've posted about this in the past. Some people agree with it. Some people really don't. I still continue to believe that the majority of people quit bosses, they don't quit jobs. Because I think at the end of the day, there is no one who affects your success more. There is no one who will leave you feeling depressed ported or unsupported, who leaves you feeling motivated or broken down, then your boss, I take it personally that whenever one of my people who is one of my direct reports, health isn't me on my team who leaves, that's my failing, because I should have fought for them harder, I should have listened to them more, I should have made more time. It's one of those places where it is it was a failing of me. I know there are a lot of people who don't necessarily agree with that. And there can be other factors at play. But the person who I think you need to hold accountable for your job is so often your boss, it doesn't mean that they can perform miracles that they kind of walk on water that just because you want more money, and they think you should have more money doesn't mean they can actually get it for you. But even in those moments, even in the tough moments, they owe you the honesty to tell you that they owe the honesty to be able to have that conversation with you so that you know where you stand with them. Because that's the thing, nobody wants perfection perfection. While maybe a goal. It's not a realistic standard. And so in that case, you have to make sure that it is someone that you mesh with it is somebody you can be honest with. It's someone that you know genuinely has your back. And that they still I believe in many cases, if you don't mess with that boss, you'll quit them, not the actual company. Other ones simple ones, you're overqualified, when your work has become so routine, when you keep doing the same thing over and over again, whenever you can do it in your sleep, and you can still do it well, it's time to explore other opportunities, because that's the one thing the double edged sword for everybody who's creative, because on the one hand, we have this interesting need to find things at work. And whenever we do here again, comfort is the enemy of greatness. Because what it does is that we find something that works and then we sort of self settle into the comfort of that. That's a problem. Because for us, for creatives, the thing that we need more than anything I think that we crave, is to know that the work we do tomorrow is better than the work we do today. Well, the only way that's going to happen is if I continue to grow, to be able to do different things to be able to continue to push myself and be challenged with new opportunities. If it becomes the same thing over and over again, that rote work will eventually just grind into a groove that you're going to get into Incredibly tired of, and you're gonna be able to start to do that work in your sleep. And as a result, you're gonna want to move on other big ones. And I've had this actually happen to me is that if the company or your department is on bad financial footing, I've had a company that's gone bankrupt out from underneath me, if you're worried about your company is headed down the wrong path, they're gonna start to spiral out of control your position no longer seem secure, it's time to be able to do that job is to be able to have that backup plan. In many cases, I do it constantly. Anyway, I've talked about this at length before, I've been laid off from I guess now two of my last four jobs. So I'm 52 for two on what those things are. But it really is the case where I always felt like no matter what I had wanted to make sure it was my job and my responsibility to make sure that I even if I did get laid off, even if the company went bankrupt from underneath me, the next day, I could get things up and running again. My Portfolio was ready. my resume was ready. My network was ready. I could immediately get a reaction I could immediately start to reach out And get things rolling, because that, for me became really the crusade. It's why I worked on my brand. It's initially why I even started out doing public speaking and other things like that was because I wanted to get some amount of control back. All of it sat with my employer, I stayed or I went at their leisure, I was sick of that. I wanted to be somebody that if I came, it made a difference. If I left, it made a difference. I wanted to be somebody who had a brand that had a network that it also allowed me to do one incredibly important thing. And what that important thing was that it led me no longer fear of being fired. Because what that allowed me to do is it allowed me to take the risk that I needed, to be honest, to fight to be able to stand up for what mattered without necessarily those fears of the political repercussions. didn't mean that I was going out every day trying to lose my job. But it did mean that it allowed me a certain level of honesty, a certain level of transparency that I don't think I would have had otherwise. Because I knew that in some way I had a backup plan that I had something that there was a really good chance that within a certain amount of time, I'd be able to Find something different. So again, whether your company is on bad financial footing, and even honestly, if it's on good financial footing, you need to really think about what is that brand. But if it's on a bad footing, it probably is time to leave. Because that's the thing is you want to make sure that in that moment, you are going to be okay. Because that moment when you realize that all of a sudden the great community and things like that suddenly becomes all about business is a very sobering one. And I think the last thing, and this is the place that I get to, and I think that this is the biggest one for me, is that whenever you've done everything you can, and you aren't advancing, the company isn't changing or people aren't listening. I have to get to that place where I feel like there I have done everything that I could. I have talked to everybody that I could, I've tried everything that I can and that I literally can get to the place where I'm just at the spot where I don't know what else to do. It's the only way that I can walk away especially as I've grown into leadership positions whenever other people are involved. Whenever You're an individual contributor much, much simpler. Whenever you're somebody that's in charge, it gets more complicated whenever you're somebody who's in charge, and that people are actually working there, because you're there, the gravity of that becomes something else altogether. And it really is something that you need to think about. But you really also have to make sure that you've really given it the best shot you can that you've tried everything that you could think of, to make sure, because this really brings us to that word of warning that I was talking about it. And these two are really linked in an interesting way. Because the other thing that I've seen the other thing that I've had to fight myself, and it really is that word of warning is is really about the process of thinking about quitting because in many cases, it can be a trap. You're in a position, you're frustrated, you think that things could be better you feel like you're being underutilized everyday going in is this seeds on your soul to get out of bed and to be able to go in and get things done. The problem is in that moment, the first person the first company, the first anything that shows any interest in your talent feels like such a breath of fresh air. There's possibility again There's appreciation again, that all of a sudden all those things that you've been wanting now suddenly seem possible. Well, but in that can be a trap. Because what you need to make sure is that it is the right thing, not just anything. Because I've seen that. And I've any, like I said, even I've been tempted by it, that you almost lose your perspective. You don't look at it as hard as you could, you don't really go through the details as much as you should to make sure that this is the right thing. That just the possibility of that the ability to finally go in to quit to be rid of this place to do all those things. Because you are so frustrated, that almost becomes overwhelming and almost becomes blinding. And so that's the word of warning. And the trap I want you to think about is I want you to make sure that you aren't just having an emotional reaction, that you aren't just thinking, Okay, well, I can finally move on to something else. Because I see people to do that. And so in about two to three year increments, they continue to cycle through jobs, because they aren't vetting it hard enough. They aren't looking Got it thoroughly enough, they aren't making sure that it really is someplace that has a longer runway for them. And that there's a plan for what's going to happen. Because that's the trap is that in so many cases for all of us, we're asked to come into a job and to do something, go achieve something. It's usually big, audacious things like that. Well, but then about two to three years, then you suddenly achieved whatever that big thing was, you've built the team, you've done the work, you've launched the app, you've built the website, you I mean, whatever it would be, it's usually some amount of time. And so you've done that and you continue to do that you start to get into a rhythm, you start to look for what's new, so that if there isn't a career path there, if there isn't something that's sustainable, well, then now you're back in this place of slowly starting to become disenfranchised and starting to hate it when to find something new. So this is why you need to make sure that there is some place that has that runway, that it gives you the ability that it can transform. The only reason why I stayed with Starwood for nine years was because it basically was four or five, two year jobs. I started out with just the website then it was all digital then it was content then it was very Video. And so again, it kept adding on to that. So it kept growing and changing. If not, I would have gotten that sort of like two to three Year Itch of like, Okay, great, I need to move on to something else. But they were good at that they were thoughtful about that to make sure there was a career path and there was growth. And there were more things I could continue to do. As I wanted to continue to grow. I didn't just get stuck in that rut. So make sure it is a better opportunity and a better job, not just a new job. Because if not, you're going to keep just reliving that cycle over and over again, of coming in. This is great, okay, I did whatever I wanted to now I'm starting to get frustrated. Now. It's not really going where I want to man, I really hate this place. Boy, my boss is really a jerk. I've got to get out of here. Another job comes along, boom, I'm gone. start all over again. So just be thoughtful about those things. And make sure that you really, like I said, are vetting it because in the interview process, I think a few too many people are afraid to interview the company as hard as they interview you. ask the hard questions, understand what your career path is. Talk to your boss, talk to the team. ask the hard questions. This is not a popularity contest. This is not American Idol you are there, and that they are wanting to bring you in. And they're looking at you really, really hard doing a lot of background research, do the same. Do you know ask for references on your boss, do I do a bunch of these other things so that you can really vet and make sure that they are who they say they are. You've gone through that whole process. And now you've decided that it is time to move on. You've gone out you've interviewed, you've gotten the offer letter, you've signed it, you've quietly several celebrated at home, and now it becomes time to actually quit. What do you do? How do you go about it? How are you sure that you can walk away and that? Well, you know what, probably no matter what, you're going to be the one that gets blamed for probably about at least six months or whatever, it goes wrong. There's no getting around that but you can at least leave and everyone's good graces without them kind of cursing your name, or at least suddenly thinking you know very, very differently about you than then he did whenever you were there. This is the list that I made trying to go through of all these different things trying to kind of mark down this different stuff. Hopefully, this can become a little bit of a playbook for you. The first one, it's simple, it's respectful, tell your boss First, be sure to tell your boss before anyone else and try to give them as much notice as you can, even if sometimes it meant the timing might not be great, even if you wish it could have been done differently. I will always try to err on the side of trying to tell them as soon as I can, and tell them in person, if at all possible. Because again, if this is the person that hired me, this is the person I've been working for is just a simple sign of respect. Here. Again, I am a huge believer and you put the shoe on the other foot, if the roles were reversed, I would want them to pay me that respect, I would want them to try to give me as much time as they could. Again, it may not always happen perfectly. There may be things that are out of your control. You may not get the offer whenever you wish you did or a whole bunch of other things. But again, just the basic, you know, respect for that. Again, this one seems like it should be obvious because anytime we talk about quitting, you say hey, I'm going to go give two weeks notice. But I've seen people have given days, I've seen people who have given like a week. So it has to be two weeks at a minimum. And this is the thing is that if you think that you can't do this, that you know that all of a sudden you've got to go running out the door. Again, think about if somebody did that to you the way it would you would feel, but I think you also need to timebox it to be realistic. So on the one hand, I would say that it needs to be a minimum of two weeks, I would set the maximum at probably four, because at the same point, you don't want to drag it on too long. You don't want to become that person's hanging around too long. Also, because you are going to be then saddled with the reality of you essentially become if you're in a leadership role, a lame duck leader, or if you're kind of in a part of a team, that then you're going to be viewed differently. So I don't want to see anybody just simply become like the whipping post where all of a sudden, you know, you just stay on for far too long. Because of just the fact that you know, you're trying to be too nice, but as a result, you're then simply taken advantage of if you care about the people that you work with If you care about those relationships, have as many conversations about the fact that you are leaving in person as you can. Whether this is ideally face to face, at worst FaceTime or over the phone. Because I really think that there is no substitute for saying thank you for telling people that the relationship matters for being able to really do those things that really matter so that people understand that this was a relationship that mattered. Because like I said, there's times when I've I've spent more time with the people I work with, and I have my significant other, there are significant relationships to me, there are people that I respect that I hold a tremendous amount of fond memories for. And again, continue to want to be able to be friends with lean on, get advice from all these different things, to be able to make that happen. Again, you have to realize that these are people. But the wrinkle to that is that you'll seem to work with your boss on when people are going to be told Because that's really the thing is that in a lot of cases, the news may start to get out of hand, you may not be able to be able to control who gets told that it might leak and then suddenly the rumor mill gets ahold of it, and all these other things start to happen. And it's so often sadly, the truth or whatever the situation was the truth or whatever was, the reason why you're leaving, becomes like this odd game of telephone, as the facts are distorted things are suddenly, you know, made into other bigger emotional things that they simply aren't or shouldn't be. So to actually have a communication plan, when will your direct reports be told? When will the team be told? And that then also for me, it's like, when will the team be told what is the plan going to be Will you know, who's going to step in to replace me Are they gonna hire again, like a lot of those sort of basic things just so that we can think about those. And like I said, both sides of that coin are incredibly important because you can't also just make it purely selfish. Because in that moment, that's the temptation. I am the one that is leaving. This is all about me before about those who are left behind, be thoughtful about those who the Friday whenever you quit need to come in on the Monday and what is that going to be like for them that you need to think about and make sure that they're left in the best position, that they are an equal part of this and that it is a 5050 equation that yes, it's about you and what you're going to do on your way out the door. But it's also about making sure that the other people who are there are set up for success, because in so many ways that your legacy is those sort of things just to make sure that those things that mattered are taken care of. It may also seem old fashioned, I would try to write a resignation letter. It may seem old school, but you know, at the very least HR is going to need it but you know, because they want a paper trail. But it gives you that chance to define your last day to thank those people to be able to do the basic sort of things just to be able to kind of spell that out but also to make sure there's simply no misunderstanding. Think about what is your transition plan? Look, this is going to include things like who's taking over your work, where can they find your files, who should they go talk to were the relationships that you were solely in charge of that now. needs to be handed off to other people or their projects that you were in charges? Is there information that only you have? Was there something that you taught that only you did really well? How do you pass that on? How do you make sure that you are clear and communicating that out to everybody. Then again, going back to the US side of the equation, you're now down to a finite amount of time, a set amount of days in a set amount of hours, between the time that you tell people that you are leaving and when that day actually arrives. So you have to be strategic about your time because after you give notice, that's why I say all there's there's gonna be a ton of stuff that comes rushing in, people are understandably going to be concerned. So be thoughtful, be strategic with your time to make sure that everything is getting covered, schedule those meetings, do whatever it is to make sure that everything gets handed off that everything really gets done the way that it should be. You know, other goofy things that I've had happen, clean up your office, clamp your desk, clamp your computer, you know, actually make sure that things are again in a place where somebody else comes in There isn't shit everywhere that your computer isn't junked up with all kinds of other stuff that again, if you're the person that had to receive it, think about what that experience is like. I think that you don't have to, again, just do the basics. But more than anything, I think the thing for me is that in that moment in that time, it really becomes about showing the gratitude to the people who deserve it. That's not going to be everybody but you're going to know you know, the people who matter you know, the people that you affected you know, the people that they affected you the two words in the English language learners I feel like our said Far, far too little, our Thank you. Go thank the people that helped you. thank the people that rallied around you thank the people that believed in you, and let them know that it mattered, that them giving a shit mattered, that they need to keep doing that that just because you're leaving does not mean that somehow they failed. You. Let them know what those reasons were. Why you are leaving so they can understand what your thought process was there. But show gratitude, say, Thank you don't slink out of the building, and doing that thing of like, Oh, all right in my post on Facebook or some idiotic thing like that, there is nothing that takes the place of those words. And that that's the time to do it. Because if you're going to start to close that chapter on that book, it's been a fight, you've done it together. Like I said, show gratitude to the ones that helped you get there show gratitude to the ones that believed in you that supported you that were there when you needed them to be because there are a bunch of other people you can think of who weren't. So make sure that the ones who were know that it mattered. Now, the couple don'ts. And I think that you know, again, this can be a very interesting time because now all of a sudden, you are free of constraints, you're free of politics, you're free of the you know, whatever it is the consequences of the Year End review, things like this. So some of the things that I've seen people do that I think you definitely don't need to do, you don't need to have an emotional outburst. You don't need to think that suddenly, this is the time when you're going to tell everybody exactly what you think about them, that you're going to set the record straight, that you're going to do all these other sort of things. Because I think at anything, it reflects on you more than anybody else. You're the one who looks like an idiot. You're the one who looks like an asshole. You're the one who just looks like you know, again, you're doing this to be able to get back at people. And no one is ever going to work with that person who's ever going to recommend them. Nobody is ever going to think well of you again. Again, if that's the last thing they think about you don't get senior itis. This is again, remember that last week, last two weeks of high school before you're set off on your own, you're given your independence and your freedom you're off to college or do whatever it was you're going to go do in the world. And that that was the only thing you could think about everything else was just simply a distraction that got in the way. Quitting a job can be very similar. If you care about your team, if you care about the people that you're leaving behind, then act like it, show up and do your job till the very end. Don't gossip Don't bullshit, don't again, take this advantage to like, suddenly start a bunch of trouble for you run out the door. You don't tell the truth, you only give honest feedback, you want to see how things can be better, you absolutely should do that to within whatever the boundaries are that you are comfortable doing, however brave you want to feel, that's what you should do. But don't gossip. Don't also necessarily feel like you even have to explain where you're going or why you quit. That, again, can be a personal decision, that in some cases for PR reasons, others maybe you can't say where it is you're going. But if there are people who you don't want to know if you want to protect that, if you do want to do that, that's completely up to you. So don't feel like you have to do that. And the other thing to me is that, you know, don't leave people in a bind. Don't leave things undone, don't leave stuff on communicated. But like I said before, they also have to be the other half of that coin, where they need to be reasonable and we have to be able to work out a balance between those two things. But those are the things like you just you don't want to do because once again that's why I said as I think too many People just simply think, Oh, I'm not going to need these people anymore. Oh, I'm out of here. The world is too small. The industry is too small for you to be able to think that you can do that sort of stuff, get away with it. And people aren't going to remember that people aren't going to then suddenly question even if you were the greatest employee for the past, however many years, you leave like an asshole. Those all that work and all those things that went before and are suddenly being called into question. Was it real, that he really kind of, you know, was all of this an act? Was it something that he didn't really believe in? And so again, those are the things that are really going to be difficult. And I said, As with most things on this show, this episode is highly personal, because I've spent months thinking about leading up to that moment, thinking about those sorts of things. And because like I said, it's personal, especially if you're in a leadership position. It is heartbreaking to be in that place where you know that you You're gonna have to go out and do some, it's gonna affect a lot of people. I mean, it was honestly To me, the Monday whenever I was gonna have to go in and tell my whole team. I couldn't sleep much that night. And my wife came down early in the morning and found me sitting on the couch with the dogs honestly, just kind of staring out into space. And she asked me, she said, What are you doing down here? I said to you, I'm, I'm not, I don't really want. I knew it was gonna happen. But I didn't want today to come. And she said, Well, but you know, this is like what you need to do? And I said, No, no, I'm not questioning that I need to do it. But I said, you know, there are, there are a few moments in life. And I think this is why I wanted to do this episode. Because there are a few moments in life when you know, the minute that you're going to hurt people. The minute in that meeting, that you're going to call when you're going to stand in front of a lot of people who really matter to you and tell them that you have decided to be so selfish, that you've decided to put you in front of them and hope that they understand. I think if you have tried to do the right thing. If you have tried to support them again, if you have tried to genuinely believe in them, they will. But also know not everyone well, leaving can be difficult. Some people just no matter what needs someone to blame. It's a huge part of our society. Now. It's not about what people can do to think about what they could do differently. No, no, it's about this must be somebody else's fault. Let me just put a face to that. And that may be part of it too. But just understand that this isn't just about you. It's not about you coming in and giving her two weeks and riding off into the sunset to go do whatever the next great thing is gonna be. That moment will be there. But the moments that lead up to that they say a lot about other people. But I think more importantly, they say a hell of a lot about you. So make sure you do it the right way. If you get anything out of the show, you like it, you take any notes you find anything that you always like about it. Do Favorite subscribe to the podcast leave a review. As always, you can find more about this podcast related articles, show notes, you know all that good stuff go head over to podcast at Stephen Gates calm Stephen is still STP pH en if you have any questions if there's stuff that you like. So if you disagree with questions you want to ask you can either find me on any social media channel or head over to Facebook type in The Crazy One podcast. Like that page. I try to post articles as often as I can, at least once a week I'm doing kind of like what do I think the best articles of the week are? So you can always check that out. Everyone down in legal always wants me to remind you that all the views here my own, they don't represent any of my current or former employers. And I say it every time because I mean it every time. But thank you for your time. I know that time is truly the only luxury that any of us have. I was incredibly humbled that you won't spend any of it listening to me. So until next time, and as always, stay crazy