Ep 46 Leadership: Why people quit and what you can do about it

In this episode of The Crazy One, Stephen Gates dives into the unique challenges of leading creative teams and why people often quit bosses, not jobs. Learn what drives creatives to leave, how leaders can retain top talent, and what employees should look for in their leadership. Stephen also shares four essential questions to ask before deciding to switch jobs. Tune in for actionable insights on fostering a positive team environment, boosting retention, and making smart career moves.

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Stephen Gates : 0:00

What's going on everybody, and welcome into the 46th episode of The Crazy One podcast. As always, I'm your host, Stephen Gates. And this is the show where we talk about creativity, leadership design, and everything that matters to creative people. Now, in this episode, I want to tackle another one of those topics that people find a little taboo, a little bit difficult to talk about. It's one of those things like, why does Hawaii have an interstate highway? But in this case, I actually want to tackle the question of why do creative people quit? Now, the reality is, is that some of the reasons are exactly the same as people in any other job. But there are some very specific things, some very unique things that drive us away. And the reality is going to be that for most of us, there's not going to be just one of these, that's going to be the straw that broke the camel's back. there gonna be a bunch of them, and they're gonna add up to this sort of like slow burn that slowly push Is this over the edge and makes us leave our job. But I want to take a look at this, I want to go through some of the most common reasons and to really do it from two different angles. The first is that if you're a creative leader, then you need to listen to this episode to see if you're guilty of any of these things. Because whenever we go through these, I want to explain what the reason is. But then I also want to talk about just for a minute about what are some of the things you can do to fix it? What is your responsibility in this? And if your employee you're not leading a team, well, then I hope that you listen to this episode so that you have a bit of a roadmap or can understand your process and your job a bit better, so that you know what to look for. What are some of the frustrations? What are some of the things that you can keep an eye out for so that you can understand the difference between things that are annoying and things that quite honestly are a bit of a deal breaker. And I also want to talk about if it is a deal breaker. What are just some basic things that you need to think about before you quit your job because This is the thing, this is a subject that we don't like to talk about as leaders, we never like to talk about it. Somebody comes in, they quit, we say, Well, you know what, screw them. Because the reality is they're a part of the team anymore. They're not that important. I'm just moving on. Because you don't really want to find out what happened, you can write it off to a whole host of other reasons. But in this episode, we actually do want to dig in and look at this a little bit deeper. So as usual, we're going to do this in three parts. We're going to start with just the basics. What is the grounding? What's the foundation? What is really kind of going on here? Then I'll walk through quite a few. I've made a pretty good size list, talking to creatives talking to designers talking to chefs talking to all kinds of different people from different creative professions. And one thing that you'll find is that no matter how different the final output may be, maybe it's a bunch of pixels, maybe it's food, maybe it's a tattoo, maybe it's something anything in between the commonality of what frustrates creatives cuts across a lot Whole lot of industries. And then finally, we're going to do just what I talked about, we're going to look at what are just simply four simple questions that you need to look at. Look at that you need to think about before you actually walk away from your job to make sure that you're putting yourself in a position to really succeed, and maybe not falling into a trap that will make you feel better in the short term, but hurt your career in the long term. As we start to think about the basics. And as I'm talking to all these people from all these different kind of creative professions, and no matter what the output was, the one thing that you see irrefutably and it is one of those various sort of like accessories sort of statements, but it holds up is that people quit bosses. They don't necessarily quit jobs. Because if you really sit down and take the time to talk to them, if you really dig in, yes, there are problems with their job. But at the end of the day, they are things that are controlled by needed to be fought for by and needed to be defended, or advanced by their boss. And now I'm also not gonna let all of the employees off the hook that easily because I've had plenty of times whenever they have quoted me as a boss, absolutely. But they've also done it because I've asked them to do something that has made them uncomfortable. It was a growth that they didn't want to do. It was some work that they didn't want to do on themselves and it was just easier to run away. So in either case, they quit the boss. And as we talked about before, creatives are different from everyone else. So the reasons why they're going to quit are going to be different from everybody else. And I think that that's what kind of makes us different because we've talked about this so many times before. At the end of the day, what we do is subjective. Whenever you put a food p a dish of food in front of somebody, whether they like it or not, you put a design you put an article you put a story a song, no matter what it is anything that is creative output, anytime You're choosing to broadcast your soul in some particular way, people are gonna judge it. And so the reaction to that is very different. And especially whenever you're doing it in a commercial setting, which means that you're doing it because somebody asks you to, and they're going to give you money in return for that. But I sat down, talk to a lot of different people thought about this for a while thought about the times in my life whenever I've left jobs, and thought about what are all of these different reasons, and there are a bunch of them. And I said, Before that, you know what, you may not just fall into one of these. But I think that we all need to think about it. If you're a boss, you need to think about these and pay attention to them to see if you're guilty of it. Is your group guilty of this? Is your company guilty of this? Are you driving people away? Are you just being more of a manager than a leader maintaining the status quo and talents not going to stick around for it? And if you're an employee, are you somebody who has are fighting for these? Do you understand that these may be the reasons why you're fresh? straighted do you have this checklist? And do you really have an honest conversation with yourself about when you hit on these frustration points? Is it truly the job? Is it truly your boss? Or is it your unwillingness to change? That's making it into that reason why you're gonna quit or why you're gonna move on. But let's dive in. Let's actually take some time and look at what are these different reasons? And then honestly, what can you do about it? And I think that the number one thing, the biggest reason why you see creators will quit, is because they don't see their work getting any better. That's probably the number one biggest thing that we all need we all crave, is that you want to know that the work I do tomorrow is going to be better than the work you do today. If it becomes too rote, it becomes too just mechanical. If you feel like you're not growing and you're just doing the same thing over and over again, if your boss is asking you to do the same thing over and over again and there's not a career plan, there's not a way for you to grow and get better. Well then you're gonna be out there. And the things that you need to do, the things that you need to do to get people over this is really just concentrating on two very specific things. The first is to get to know their process. Because as creatives the way that we do create is different. Everybody connects the dots differently. So if that's going to grow, the leader needs to lean in and understand what that process is. The employee needs to take the time to understand what their process is, so the two can communicate. But in either case, you have to push beyond comfortable, you have to become comfortable with being uncomfortable, to do something new because if you feel like you're unappreciated, if you feel like the work isn't improving, and I'm out of there, the other big one because of the fact that we talked about the fact that this work is so personal, that it really is kind of broadcasting a piece of my soul and however, overly Shakespearean that may sound, the thing where people will really fall down the place where leaders fall down. If they don't defend the work of their team, and that could happen in a bunch of different ways it could be, they throw them under the bus, it could be that they say yes to every client request, which becomes so easy because of course, clients love you, you say yes to everything. But your team hates you. You don't push back, you don't defend the idea. You don't defend the team, you're just a yes person. And that that really just feels like a betrayal of what everybody agreed on. But that's the thing is that creativity is subjective. So you have to be on the same page. But here's the thing again, as a leader, you have to be willing to really step in to spend political capital and take a risk for the team. You have to defend the work. You have to defend your team because that's the thing is that this is subjective. And look, you can use research, you can use strategy, you can use a creative brief, you can use your process. You can use it 100 different things to do this. But the reality is, at the end of the day people will work for people who give a shit. People will work for people to stay loyal to people who will actually go out and defend them who will fight for them, who will stand up and try to make a change. Now, the hard part with this is, is on both sides. Because from a leadership side, it means that you actually have to give a shit, you've got to walk your talk, if you're going to go out and say you're going to do something, you have to find a way to make it happen. Now, the employee side, the thing that you need to do is to give your leader a chance, because the one thing that is probably in the shortest supply in this entire industry is patience. Because you can't boil the ocean. You can't get things done overnight as a leader, because that's the thing is in many cases, I may be actually really unhappy with the state of where the group is right now. But the reality is, is that what I'm working towards the thing that I'm trying to build isn't right now. I'm trying to build tomorrow. I'm trying to build the day after. I'm trying To bring about that change and not everything is just snap my fingers and make that happen. So what I need from my team, what I asked for from my team is to have a little bit of patience, I can see the problem, I can empathize with that problem. But that's the challenges that I need, the time, the permission, the space to get that done, I will come back and tell you how it's going. But give me a chance to make it happen. Now, all of this really kind of revolves around what is a very deep seated big unforgiveable problem, which is whenever leaders or companies, they just don't care about their people. Because the reality is, is that bosses who don't genuinely care about their people always have high turnover rates. And it's impossible to work for somebody whenever I'm spending 810 12 hours a day with somebody who isn't, who isn't involved with me who isn't who they don't really care about anything other than just my output. Because these are the people These are the bosses, the leaders, the company that see me as a resource and not as a person. And that that is a mistake. Because especially with creatives, like we said, this is subjective, it is personal, it is unique, it is debatable. There are all these things that make it so incredibly necessary for you to care about and understand your people because they need to feel protected. They need to feel like their work is getting better. And again, they need to feel like you give a shit. So you need to celebrate their successes. You need to tell them when they do a good job. You need to empathize with what their process is empathize with them, whenever they're going through hard times, figure out what's the right way to lead them. How do you apply your leadership, go back and listen to the last episode, go back and listen to 45 to talk about the way that I think that you should be able to do this. But this is the thing is that you have to really understand what they're going through and care about them as people because the reality is they're not just an asset, because there's also this whole other world that happens outside of The job that has an effect on them. We've talked about the role of happiness. We've talked about frustration, these other things, and the way that it plays into your creativity. People have wives, kids, parents lives, illnesses, sicknesses, pets, like a whole host of things that go on, that can affect them. And again, we have to balance this because it can't be every little Bert bump and boo boo is the reason for some calamitous event. But at the same time, you know, being human is probably the best leadership, quality, that's leadership advice, and anybody can actually do. But with all of that has to come. accountability. Because that's the real part of all this is this is the freedom in a framework. This is how do you go through and give them the space that they need, respect their process, grow all of that, but at the same point, challenge them and hold them to results hold them to be accountable, even when it hurts, because that's the part of leadership that sucks. Is this all the hard conversations It's telling them that they didn't measure up, it's telling them that they need to do better. And it is still caring about them. But it's caring about them by being honest, it's caring about them by being transparent to have, what could fester behind the scenes and put it out into the open so that everybody can have a conversation about it. And so let's use that as a little bit of a segue. Because when we talk about accountability, even when it hurts, that really has to come through with honesty. And I think that both sides are accountable for this. As a leader, you have to be willing to be honest with your team, you have to give them direct feedback, because here again, creativity is subjective. And it's a lot of work. And there is nothing worse than not having people willing to tell you the truth about it, and then not be willing to put the problem out there. They're passive aggressive, they're doing all these other things. They're not going to confront you with what that is. They're not going to be honest. And I always think that one of the things as weird as it may sound That I try to really work to do is that I'll stab you in the chest instead of the back. Because what that means is that whatever I'm gonna say behind your back, I'm gonna say to your face, I'm gonna be honest about it neither place because I need to be honest with people, I have to be transparent with them, we have to solve problems, we have to push past things we have to grow. And the only way that we're going to do that is by being honest. But honesty is really hard. Because in a lot of cases, you have to tell people they didn't measure up, you have to tell them, things that are going to hurt. And that even if it comes from a good place, you still know it's going to hurt. But this is why I think that you have to be honest, and I think that both sides have to be honest, we've talked in the past about how over 80% of employees feel like they can't or won't be honest at work. The challenge with that simply becomes that whenever you aren't really willing to do that. Nothing is going to change because nobody's having an open conversation about what's actually going on. Now. Obviously You have to be politically smart about this. You have to be strategic about when you're doing that about when do you actually open up to people? When are you going to be honest so you're not filled with a roomful of executives and decide to blurt out a problem with your boss. Right. That's, that is honest, but it's also idiotic. But this is the thing is that at least the thing that I found is at the end of the day, people may not always like or love honesty, but they always respect it. Even if they can't hear it in the moment, even if they can't really figure out why it is you're saying this, even if they think you're mean or something like that. That's something that they can respect because it comes from a place of trying to make things better. And that's up to both sides to figure out how do you couch it? How do you position it in a way that really makes it constructive and not just an asshole. Now the other one, and this is one that I see from CEOs down through executive leadership down through people who run teams, this is a big one that comes up a lot is that leaders don't show creatives how they fit into the big picture. And, you know, look, it may seem efficient, right? So just simply give your employees give your team an assignment move on. But the reality is, is that if you're leaving out the big picture, in many cases, I find that it's a deal breaker for creatives. Because if you stop and think about it, creatives honestly shoulder a heavier load, because they really care about the work again, you are broadcasting a piece of your soul. So they feel like that work has to have a purpose. And when they don't know what that bigger picture is, the thing that it will actually do is while you as a leader may be looking at this and saying, Oh, I'm protecting them from the politics and all the bullshit and all this stuff that goes on. What it actually does is it makes a lot of creatives feel alienated and they feel aimless because they don't know what that tomorrow is. They don't know how their work is getting better. They don't understand where it fits in. And this is the thing is that whenever you don't give a creative person purpose, they find it someplace else. And this is the thing is a lot of cases. That's why a huge reason why people quit is because they want to go someplace where they feel like the new role is either smaller or bigger or better defined, or it's giving them what they aren't getting in their current job where they can see where they fit in. They can see where their impact is. And that makes a huge, huge difference for them. Because now they feel connected to something they feel like they're contributing to something. And it's not just this just kind of sort of production work that goes on again and again, that is thankless and it's not taking them anywhere. And I think that concept, I never saw any better than with my the last CEO that I worked for Fritz Von paasschen, who is the CEO of Starwood that I worked with, for I don't know what seven or eight years because for Every year would come in, and he would concentrate on just two or three things at a time. And then what we would do is that we would say, Okay, look, we have this much bigger roadmap, these are the two or three things that we want to work on. And it would get shared with the whole team. And then everybody would then figure out, Okay, how am I going to work against that? How is my design team going to work against that? How is the digital team going to work against that? How's the mobile team, how's the iOS developer designer, all the way down the line, you can figure out how you aligned and you are getting going to start working on that. And then Fritz and all the rest of leadership would then give updates on Okay, here's your piece that's going great. Here's how that piece fits into the next bigger piece, and then on up the line. So you can actually see it going somewhere, you can see it contributing to something. And then he would give readouts back to the whole country or back to the whole company. And then that would really push everybody to accomplish what those goals were. But that's the thing is that too many times you see the executives or the leadership just get caught up in their own little bubble. And they just somehow assume that their decisions and what's going on that the roadmap the insane overly complex. Did the slide that some consultant put together? Well, that's getting cascaded down to the whole organization and that everybody figures out where they fit in. But that's the problem is in many cases, now I'm leaving that up to individual leadership, I'm taking this broad swath of work and asking everybody to find your place in it. And that in many cases, that just doesn't really work. And so I think this is the case is that as a leader, you need to be the person's making sure that your team your pod, your person understands what it is that they do and how it fits into the bigger hole. As an employee, if you aren't getting that, you need to go to your leadership and say, Look, how the hell is this fitting into the bigger purpose? Where the hell is this going? How is this actually going to take us someplace? Because one of two things will happen both are very revealing. One is that it'll you'll actually get that place that purpose, that thing, and then you can start to work on how that can be communicated better, because there is a good purpose there. You just aren't plugging into it in some way. Maybe it's leadership's fault. Maybe it's your fault. You can find out either way or you The other thing you're going to find out is that that bigger picture may not necessarily exist. And that is a huge red flag for if you should stay there, because that's the thing. Where is this all going, you know, where? How are we contributing to this? How are things getting better? And how do I see me fitting into that? From there, we can start to get into a little bit more nuanced reasons. And I think these are a few more of like the slow burn sort of ones. One of the biggest ones, especially if you care about what you do, if you love what you do if your craft really matters to you, is whenever you see leadership or your company who will tolerate poor performance, because when you permit weak links to exist without consequences, they drag everybody else down, especially your top performers. One of the best pieces of advice that I ever got was from my big mentor who I had in my career who told me you prefer to protect the performers and fuck everybody else. Because the reason why is that I don't want to have Some interns, some slacker, somebody who doesn't want to be there, pissing off my star performers to the point where they're going to leave. So you have to step in, you have to do something about it, or it will become a cancer, it will become the person that poisons the well. Because what it's going to do, even if all of those people don't directly work with that person, is that they see you tolerating it, they see you not dealing with it, they see you setting an expectation for everybody else, but somehow not pushing it in on that person who's not really doing what they should be. And they'll slowly lose respect for you. They'll slowly not listen to you because they say, Well, look, why am I killing myself? Why am I doing all this stuff when that guy gets to Get Away with Murder, but this is what you need to do is that you have to give creatives the freedom and the responsibility, right? There has to be those two things. You have to have them the ability to own something, but there have to be consequences and there has to be accountability that comes with it, you've got to set clear standards and hold people to them. And if they don't meet them, something needs to happen. It can't just be, oh, let me Don't you know, the British police stop them and say stop again, there has to be consequences, you have to do something. In extreme cases, you've got to manage them out of the team. In lesser cases, you've got to coach them and lean in and really be able to take away that leash take away that slack to make the deliverables closer together to make them more visible to make the standards more clear. So there is some way that you can genuinely go about dealing with this. Because especially the better your team gets, the more this becomes an issue. Steve Jobs would always talk about how a player is only want to work with a player's, it's true. And whenever you start doing it really well, when you start setting those boundaries really well. You'll start to see the group can even start to police itself. They'll start to neglect they'll start to reject to the person that isn't working to their standards. That person either then raises their standards or goes off and finds another job. But in either case, it really is lenient on that, and making sure that there are consequences to that. Now, the inverse of that is that you also don't want to overcompensate because the one thing that drives me crazy is that whenever I don't get any autonomy or independence from leadership, and this means that I'm getting micromanager, my boss doesn't make it clear. When am I in charge? Sometimes their decisions I can make them sometimes my boss is coming in over the top of me, and they're making them. Well, that makes it really hard for me to lead. It makes it really hard for my team to know, when am I in charge? Should I be taken seriously? Because that's the thing is, well, you made the decision this time, but your boss made it the other time. So maybe I just should skip you all together and start dealing with the bigger boss because they're the person that seems to be making these decisions that really count. And I think that's a really hard thing to do. I think as a boss, one of the hardest things to do is to make sure you respect fact that boundary, that if somebody who's two or three levels down comes to you that you redirect them back to who is their immediate boss, let them deal with it and not just jump in in that moment and deal with it. But that's the thing is that you've got to really be clear and defined about what are the roles and responsibilities in your organization and stick to them? Because the one thing that I've been guilty of in the past is assumptions, assumptions, make an ass out of you and me for a very good reason. And that's because I would think, Oh, I came from agency world. Everybody knows what this role does. Everybody knows what these people do. Everybody understands what all this stuff is. Yeah, no, they don't. Not everybody does. Some people do. Some people don't Some people think, oh, I've got this producer here. They're just here to take notes in meetings and do schedules. No, no, no, no, no. That's couldn't be further from the truth. So I think that's the thing is by by just setting this up, clearly, who makes what decisions who has this role who has this responsibility? What is somebody going to do and what are they going to Do it that makes it very clear makes it much easier for everybody to know who's in charge when. So that again, I don't have somebody coming over the top of me and kind of making me the boss. But only sometimes we're down to just two more of these reasons why I think a lot of creatives really quit. And the first one of these two is going to be whenever you see that leaders, companies, whatever you want to say, they don't create a culture, they don't create an identity for their team. And here's the thing is that culture isn't just going out for drinks now and again, it is a clear sense of what the team stands for. What is the purpose that they're trying to work towards? And clearly defining where and how people fit into it. That's what culture is. Culture isn't posters or tchotchkes or toys or Nerf guns, right? That that may be fun. It may be a part of your culture. It may be just something that you guys do. But it's not what matters to people put snacks in the kitchen, put Nerf guns out there. It's great amuses people for a week or two at most. So I'm gonna keep in the job. Because this is the thing is that your culture is either going to be created by the by design or by default. And you have to decide which one of those things it is you have to stand for something. And if you're in house, if you're an agency or anything like this, standing for something is often the hardest thing to do, as an individual, as an employee, as a leader, as a group, because what it means is that you are planting your flag and saying, This is what I care about, this is what I stand for. Well, whenever you do that, a funny thing happens. People can judge you on it, people can shoot at it. People can do all sorts of things, because now you've taken a position while everybody else just simply floats with the status quo. They go with whatever is going on. infinitely easier, infinitely better for them, because there aren't consequences to that. But the inverse side of that, you don't keep your people you don't actually really accomplish anything. And you become, well, you basically become a professional sheep. Because you can make a very good very lucrative career I've seen and still work with a number of people who fall into this category. You don't stand for anything, you don't build a team, you don't inspire people, as a boss don't grow their career, and they will leave you at the drop of a hat. Because this is the thing is that you have to define and we've done many shows on this before. So I'm not going to go into this in detail. You can go back, listen to any of the talks I've done around this in the past. But you've got to define a set of beliefs, what do you actually believe? What does your team stand for? You have to define your process to find your methodology, define the things that actually want to define your culture, define how you do things. Because then once you've done that, you can give the team you can give people that sense of purpose, you can define and tell them what it is they're working towards, you can clearly define where they fit in. Because now there's a way of doing things now. There's a hierarchy that's going to let all of that stuff happen. And so If you take the time to do that, if you take the time to actually understand what culture is, and then it's not, again, like I said, going for drinks and Nerf guns, then you can make a real difference. And the last one, well, the last one is going to be a little bit of a variation on the first one, because the first one that we talked about as creative as they don't see their work getting any better, with a variation on that, which will also drive them equally crazy is that when they don't see their work being used, being appreciated, or actually launching, because we're an interesting bunch, right? We all get so inspired to do great things. But with that inspiration comes a danger. Because if you go a long time and if you don't see your ideas turning into reality, if you don't see them going out the door, if you don't see them being launched so that the general public can appreciate them. Well, then what happens is that inspiration, well then that quickly turns to frustration. Because ideas are great, but we want to actually see them in the world. We don't want to see them just become theoretical, we don't want to see them. Just go nowhere. This was always the problem with so many agencies, ton of great pitch wars, a ton of great ideas, really cool stuff. But whenever all it ever stays is a pitch whenever all it stays is a what if it becomes dissatisfying, it doesn't become like something we really want to plug into. Because we know that we're going to put our heart and soul tremendous amount of work really good ideation. But at the end of the day, it's just gonna be pitch where it's just going to be something we're going to talk about and never actually do. We want to see your work go out the door, and listening to Tony Fidel, who is one of the designers of the iPod and the iPhone and Apple went on to found nest, Tony would always talk about how it most you have to have your work launching no longer than every six to eight months. But if it goes beyond that horizon, that that's when the work gets sloppy, it drags on creative, start to They get frustrated, they aren't as plugged in, and they aren't happy with what's going on. But this is the thing is that as a leader, you have to fight to get your team's work out the door, you have to fight and push to get it to a place where it can see the light of day. Because that's the problem is if we don't see it launching or worse, if we see it actually launched, but it's become very clear that because of the people who then executed that work, the developers, the publisher, the producer, that whoever it was, if we see that that work would just simply uses as as a suggestion, that's equally bad. Because it's not being used. It's not going out the door. We didn't put our blood sweat and tears into something for it to be a fucking suggestion. And so I think all of these reasons, are the things that are going to frustrate creatives, they're going to be the things that are going to be different because look, they're the standard ones that aren't on this list. Pay hours work life balance, time to commute time away from my family, amount of travel Like there's tons of other stuff if you could contribute to this, everybody has those problems. I wanted to nail in on just what are the ones that are really specific and are going to be a bit different to people who are really just creative. Now, let's say that you've gone through, you've listened all these different frustrations and you've said, You know what? I really think I hate my boss, hate my job. I don't want to be a part of this anymore. I need to go find something else. Now, the reason why I wanted to talk about just a couple questions to ask yourself is because I've seen far too many far too talented people who get to that place who say, you know what, screw this place. My boss doesn't appreciate me, I'm underpaid. My work isn't going anywhere. It's not getting better. I need to get out of here. And what you do is you start to out and you start to interview, you start to send out resumes, you start to talk to other people, you start to network, all those things that we all do. And then the opportunity comes along the first one And man, if that isn't like the guy who's been out in the desert who found the Oasis, someone is interested in you, someone wants to talk to you, somebody appreciate you, they want to give you what it is that you don't have. Well, there are traps there. There are times whenever you can go and follow that and it's great, more money, fantastic. Could be crap work, could be better work could be crap, money could be a lot of these different things. And those are the basics. But I came across an article the other day that was done by Paul June. And Paul did it for 99. You create site if you aren't checking this out, if you aren't watching those videos, if you aren't going to that content reading it, you need to be and Paul had a number of questions that were probably better not probably, let's be honest, they were better than anything I was going to write for this show. So I just wanted to use what his four questions were and what were the things that you really need to think about, about is it really going to work? What are the potential things you're going to need to weigh out before you quit your job. Now the four questions. Probably like any questions that are actually worth discussing, seems simple on the surface, but I think, have a surprising amount of depth underneath them. Now the first question that I think you need to ask yourself is, Who will I become? If I take this opportunity? If I take this job? Who am I going to be? How is this job going to contribute to my life's goals? How is this going to open up more opportunities for improving my work? How does this connect to my values, my mission and what I stand for? And I think that the reason why a lot of people struggle with this is because I think in many cases, just look at their resume. I don't know that a lot of people have any clear sense of their values, their mission or what they stand for. So as a result, they just kind of go through in a happenstance sort of way hoping that what it is they do, hoping that that job is going to be that opportunity. Because really, what's behind this question is to understand what kind of decision you're about to make and the path It's gonna put you on, you have to set yourself up for success. I think that's one of the few things that I've done really well is whenever I've taken a job, I've been fairly maniacal about making sure that it was going to set me up for success, it didn't mean that I was going to get everything I wanted when I came through the door, it usually actually means far from that. But I could see the path, I could see the way I can see the support, that how this was going to connect with what I cared about, and that there was a way for me to make it into what it was that I wanted. Because if it is just about pay, or if it's about a title, you're giving up what really matters, and what you're gonna find is down the road, you're only making more money or you're doing crap work. Again, you're having a better title, you're doing crap work, and then all of a sudden, you're gonna get to this place of having this crisis where it's like, oh, my God, I got the pain I got the title of my portfolio is now suddenly irrelevant years down the line. So you need to think about this stuff. And you need to be really diligent about making sure that you understand who you are and then how does this job align To that, you need to think about what is the opportunity cost of this new job of this new opportunity? Because you know what, look, there are opportunity costs everywhere. And sometimes they're really hard to measure, especially whenever you're at the crossroads of a decision. But it really is just looking at, what are you going to have to give up? What is going to have to change? What is going to be different with this opportunity? What are you going to have to give up personally, professionally, and a lot of other ways, and to really take the time to think about what that means. This could be as simple as a longer commute, a more expensive commute more time away from your family. It could be mean traveling more, it could be a lot of things that in the moment sound simple, they sound insignificant. It's like Well, yeah, so what I'm gonna be on the train another hour and a half a day that I wasn't before. Well, if you have a newborn baby, all of a sudden an hour and a half, very quickly becomes a large amount of time. There are all these other things that can sound so simple that can be brushed aside. So quickly. Whenever you're in the midst of making that decision, whenever you're just so blinded by this, then it really can become a problem once you take the job. And the in the companion to that is to think about what are the sacrifices that you need to make to take this opportunity? Because you know what, look, there can be an option in front of you. And it is full of potential. But it's going to demand your skill, it's going to demand a whole bunch of this other stuff that really is going to demand things of you. It could be time, it could be a lot of these other things. And look, this is this is what a lot of this is about is that so often I see people they get this laser focused and kind of just they're, they're just thinking about what's right in front of them. And they willfully ignore kind of like the long term problems or the long term gains, because that's the other part of it is that if there is a discomfort Getting up earlier or doing like that is a short term discomfort that you can overcome. That may actually if you do that lead to a longer term game, because that's the thing is that if you can challenge in a good way, your comfort zones, if you can make some fat sacrifices if you can do these sorts of things, but you have a clear goal in mind. It's amazing what you can get done. And then the last one, honestly, is just is it worth it? You're gonna take this new opportunity you have this sort of thing isn't worth it. Do something simple. Do a pros and cons. Let's do a decision tree, do something that's lets you see lets you write out and think about the consequences of this opportunity of this decision. The cost that's going to take on your time, your resources, your family, your sanity, and all of these different things. Because it's really in the end, it's about just being unmistakably clear about the decision that you're about to make Make so that nothing is a surprise. Because that's the thing is if I go down this road, what does it mean for me? How does it connect for me? Was it going to make me better? Am I going to be able to be happy with this? Is it going to push me and grow? Am I going to get scared even a little bit by what it is that I'm about to go do? Because those are the things right? It's not getting blinded by the pay the attention, the title, the things like that, that so many cases, people are like, Yay, I get a bigger title to go put on LinkedIn. Congratulations, you have a bigger title for a job that you cannot wait to get out of are miserable for you feel you're losing your talent, making your work irrelevant, and just kind of not fulfilling and continuing the momentum that you've built up. So is that title worth it? is just the money alone worth it? Look, don't get me wrong, I understand the value of money and what that can do. But the reality is that if you get that big pay jump, but there's not a career, there's not a road tied to it. You're going to be flatline. Did that pay grade for way longer than you should be? Because you have to figure out how do you then rebuild your career? How do you rebuild your portfolio? How do you rebuild what it was that you really cared about? So then you can take that next step. And that's the problem is I see this time and time again, people who never should go for these big jobs, they get them, they do it by mistake, or whatever that is. And then years and years and years go by, as they sit in that same job, they can't move to another job because they don't have a significant enough experience to go to that next step. And so that they become stuck. Their pay is stuck. their career is stuck in that spot. So yes, it was worth it. But it's weighing the short and long term gains to figure out what is the right mix, whatever you need to go and take on a new opportunity. But the bottom line for all this is that there is going to be no substitute as a leader for investing in your people, as an employee for investing in yourself for getting to know your team. Getting to know your people, as an employee getting to know yourself, because that's what so much of this is. We've talked before about how happiness is a fluid concept. That's what a lot of this comes back to. Do you know what you need to be happy? Do you know your process? Do you know your career path? Do you know where it is that you want to go? Do you know your values, your missions, and what it is that you stand for? Do you know how your job is getting you there? It's hard work. But we are different from everybody else, the work that we have to do, the way that we need to pay attention to things is going to be different. And that's the problem. That's the challenge in all this is that there's not a one size fits all solution is going to make everybody happy. There's not a one size fits all solution that every job is going to make you happy. And then here again is we come back to talk about probably the other word that you need at all. This is a little bit of patience on both sides, because you need to give your career time to develop you can't just be Doing this thing where I'm running in and saying, Well, look, I'm not putting a dent in the universe in the six months, people aren't throwing me a parade. They don't love me screw this place. I'm out of here. Because then in very even six, six month increments, you're gonna continue that path and continue that way of doing things. But at the same point, don't wait too long. Don't be that person who is years down the road, wanting to know why did I just take the first thing that came along? Why did I take that bigger salary bump? Why did I take that bigger title? Why did I not think it through? Why didn't I see that this was gonna be great in the short term, and really be a problem for me in the long term. Take the time, step back, take a breath, take the time to talk to other people, get other opinions, understand what is going on, get a different point of view. Because there are some times when you can really get caught up in the moment. And that it's amazing how something as significant as your career, your life, your creativity, your passion, your Job your whatever it is that you want to call it. It's amazing how somebody that is so critical does something that is so important to us in that moment, can be thought through so quickly, overlooked so easily and just take the road of the short term satisfaction over the long term game. But that's the point of all this is understand these reasons understand that we're different, be the better leader have the hard conversations, get to know your people, give a shit about them, fight for them, step up make a difference. Don't be that person just manages it be the boss that you wish you had. Because that's what I try to do. There are a lot of days I suck at it and I fall woefully and painfully short of it. But there are other ones when it works, that I am the boss that I wish I had. And to be the employee that you know what the best one you can be understand your process. Understand your role. Ask for what it is that you want. Have a conversation don't sit in the corner and pout don't walk off. Don't tell anybody don't become that, you know, brooding little idiot who's just gonna all go around all the time with a big chip on their shoulder. If you want to make a difference, step up and say something, it's easy to bitch behind the scenes, it's easy to be able to go on to like those anonymous surveys that come at your office and complain about all the stuff that's going on. You know, and it's an easy thing to do. But the hard part is to step up and say, You know what, I'm not happy about this. This needs to be different and to work with people to change it. Because hope is more work than skepticism. enthusiasm, inspiration is more work than just simply writing something off. Because those things take more energy because they require a change. They require change on both sides. leadership has to change the team, the employee has to change both sides need to recognize that something could be better, and they have to genuinely invest to make that happen. And this is the problem is too many of us. We take the easy road. We don't have the hard conversation. We don't tell the truth. We aren't honest with each other. And so this is the problem. I get so pissed off about because it is harder. But in the end, it's better for everybody. It's better for you for the leadership for the team for the work for that's the thing. These are jobs where in many cases, we're spending more times with our team than we are with our families. I want that time to mean something, I want it to add up to something. I don't want it to just be. But we're going to go in and say, Oh, it's good enough. Nothing makes me matter. So this is my challenge to you. Think about these things. Look at your team, look at your job. Look at your boss, look at your employees, look at where you are in your career. Ask yourselves these questions. What are you guilty of and if you are, what can you do to change it? And then tomorrow, not next week, not next month, tomorrow. Start to find a way to make it different. It can be small, it can be simple, but start somewhere. If any of this was useful, If you like the show if you've subscribed to it, which hopefully you do subscribe so you can get this show on a regular basis. Do me a favor, take a couple seconds, head over to iTunes, head over to your favorite podcast platform. leave a review. As always, you can find out more about this show related articles full show notes for this show and all the other ones that I've done at podcast Stephen Gates, calm Stephen is still STP hen.com if you have any questions, any thoughts you want to be part of the community? You want to ask me a question about this or any other topic, head over to Facebook type in The Crazy One podcast like that page? You can ask me questions anytime day or night I'll get back to you as quickly as I can. As always the boys down legal want me to remind you that all of us here my own, they do not represent any of my current or former employers. These are just all my own personal thoughts. And finally, I say it every time because I mean it every time. But thank you for your time. I know that time is truly the only real luxury that any of us have. And I'm always incredibly humbled that you want to spend any of it with me So, go out there, find your voice make a difference. Don't be the person that just soaks and quits or can't actually think through the opportunity. Because at the end of it, what will always help you do is stay crazy.