Want to Drink Less? Start Here with Silvia Subirana
Graced Health Podcast

Host: Amy Connell

Guest: Silvia Subirana, Unconscious Moderation

Amy: Silvia, welcome to Graced Health.

Silvia: Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited.

Amy: I'm glad you're here, and I think this is an important topic that I'm excited to jump into today. You are a clinical psychologist and you're head of content development at Unconscious Moderation. This is an app designed to help users take control of their relationship with alcohol. I typically like to lead up to this, but I find this app very intriguing and exciting, so I kind of want to jump in and then we'll pull out pieces that people can apply to their lives regardless of whether they use the app. I mean, hopefully if this is something that strikes a chord, they will, but I always like to make sure that my community gets applicable information. So first, let's step back and talk about why it can be so hard to make changes, especially as it relates to alcohol.

Silvia: Well, it's hard to make changes in general, whether there are substances involved or not. We love feeling in control. We love understanding what's going on in our lives, and creating that change can sometimes be very scary. Sometimes we feel like we're not capable of doing so, right? And willpower can only get you so far. That's why from Unconscious Moderation—we can talk about it a bit more later—our approach is combining conscious mind and unconscious mind, because the unconscious mind has a lot of power in those habits and in changing those habits as well. Everything that you're trying to do consciously needs to be supported by that unconscious mind as well, because if not, that's how we get stuck, right? And that's why it's way more difficult to change our habits.

When it comes to something like alcohol, which is a substance that you put in your body, your body gets more and more used to that because it's a substance that we rely on, right? If I drink frequently, my body relies on that to function because that's how we've always functioned, right? And taking that out of the system creates that craving for the body, saying, "I need that to work and to function normally." So it takes time and patience for the body to readjust to either reducing or quitting completely alcohol. And to be fair, any substance really, because it would happen with any drugs or smoking cigarettes or drinking coffee—it happens as well. Or sugar—it happens with many things.

Amy: That's so true. You mentioned how it can be scary, and I've had another conversation on the podcast about just reducing your drinking, especially as we're getting older. And I think one of those fears is the fear of the unknown: what's going to happen socially? What's going to happen with my relationships that revolve around the minute we get together, we put a bottle of wine between us? I think there's a lot of fear in many different ways, but that can be one of them. Even if I'm feeling good about this decision, what are the consequences going to be in my social circles?

Silvia: Yeah, and that's completely fair to question and to think about because some relationships change after taking that step, right? But then some people I've helped say, "I'm actually surprised because people were very supportive, and sometimes friends even jump to the same step where they say, 'I've been thinking about it, but I felt that fear as well.'"

So even though some situations might not be very easy or very favorable, it's worth the shot to try and create those situations because you might be surprised. You might meet new people. You might have a different relationship with those friends that you have been having dinners with for a very long time, but you were always drunk or always tipsy, right? And if you change that approach and you have conversations where you are not under the influence of alcohol at all, you might realize that there's more to it—there's more to that friendship, to that relationship, right?

So it can be very scary, and that's completely normal to feel like that. And yes, it is true that you might lose some people in your life or you might get some distance from those people that you thought were very important for you. So that fear that you're scared of—it is founded on something. There's a reason why. But at the same time, by not creating that change, you're also choosing, right? We always think that by not creating that change, then we're staying the same and we're not choosing, but we are—we're choosing not to change. We're choosing to stay that way.

And maybe you have realized that something's not working for you, that alcohol is just not sitting well in your stomach, or the next day you are completely useless because of a hangover, right? So I always encourage people to say: what you're not changing, you're choosing. And you're choosing to do this to yourself. And if it's not something that you're comfortable doing, why are you forcing it, right?

Amy: That's such a great point, and particularly for the women in my community who are in that perimenopause/menopause phase. I don't know of anyone who hasn't said, "When I drink, it's so different," or "it impacts my sleep. I don't feel well the next morning. I have brain fog." Whatever the symptoms are, they are exacerbated as we get older. So I like how you say we're choosing not to change, and you're choosing not to change how your body is feeling and reacting. I talk a lot about feeling and functioning well here, and so choosing not to change our relationship with alcohol can mean that we are choosing to not feel and function well.

So I want to hear more about your app, Unconscious Moderation, because it seems like it is different than other apps, than other programs. Can you talk us through the bones of it—what the basic structure is and how it is different?

Silvia: We like to combine different approaches because we think that if we do it from different ways, we give different tools to people, and then people will actually be able to target that with more strength. If you strengthen different paths, then we feel like you have more power, right?

So the way that we do it: the program, if you do all the program, is 90 days. But then you have the first 30 days where you're not going to drink alcohol—you're going to do a full reset for your body, right? And in those first 30 days, you have 30 minutes a day where you have 15 minutes of working with the unconscious mind and 15 minutes of working with the conscious mind.

How we work with the unconscious mind: we do hypnotherapy sessions, and it's just audio—15-minute audio that you put your headphones on and you relax, right? And I think there's a lot of misconception of what hypnotherapy is because a lot of people think of how hypnosis has been used in theater or movies, right? They just swing a pendulum in front of your face, click their fingers, and then you're gone and you're going to start acting like a chicken, right? And that's not how it works at all.

So hypnotherapy is very similar to relaxations like meditations that many people have done, right? You listen to that audio and it brings you into a deep state of relaxation, which again is very similar to any sort of meditation that you've done. The only difference is that when you're in that deep state of relaxation where all your worries, all your conscious noise that is in your mind dials down the intensity and sort of moves to the side—in that state, you are more open to suggestions.

So what hypnotherapy does is giving you options, right? Because sometimes our minds create those bonds and those connections between things, and then we think that when something happens, we only have one choice—one option. For example, something that happens very often: I have a very stressful day at work, and then I associate that stress with "I'm going to unwind with a glass of wine."

Amy: Yeah. [nodding] Me and everybody, but I'm nodding over here. Yes.

Silvia: That becomes automatic for a lot of people, and in the end, your mind—every time that you feel that stress, you're already thinking of that wine because for your mind, it's just automatic, right? What hypnotherapy does is giving you other options. It's saying, "Yeah, when you have stress, you can have that glass of wine, but you can also go for a walk, or you can also talk to a friend—just pick up the phone and call a friend—or spend time with your kids, your grandkids, or many different things, right? Or cooking, baking a cake that you haven't done in a while."

So I think it's a very powerful tool because it just broadens your mind and it makes you more prepared to take on new things, right? Because how the brain works—I don't like to say that the brain is very lazy because the brain has a lot of things to do in the day, but the brain tries to optimize energy. There's so many things that it needs to take care of, that if we can automatize—make stuff automatic—the brain loves it, right? The brain doesn't differentiate if that is good or bad for ourselves. The only thing that it knows is that we do it very frequently.

So let's go back to the example that I used before: I'm stressed at work, I'm drinking a glass of wine. So between neurons—brain cells—there's this path that is created little by little that becomes bigger and bigger the more that we do it and the more that we reinforce that, right? So there's a point where—I said before—you think you're a little bit stressed and you're already thinking of the wine because it's automatic, because that path between neurons is very strong. It's like a highway, right?

And what hypnotherapy does is create alternative neural paths—alternative paths between the brain cells—so that the stress-wine path loses its power. So instead of being a highway, it will become like a regional—

Amy: A two-lane road.

Silvia: Exactly.

Amy: A dirt road.

Silvia: Exactly. So it will lose its power and then all the alternative paths will start to gain more and more power, right? So the way that we feel it consciously is we just feel like we have more options, like I was saying before.

So that is for 15 minutes. And then the other 15 minutes are to work on the conscious mind. Because again, we work all this unconsciously—we're not even aware that that is going on in our brain—but if we also work on it consciously, we are going in the same direction. So we double the power, right?

So the way that we do it is we do journaling, and that journaling is related to that hypnotherapy in a way that we help people imagine themselves in different situations where they need to choose, or they are in situations that maybe before they would say, "I don't have a choice. This is what I've always done." But now, little by little, they realize that they do have a choice. They have many different options, right? And they can think of how they would react in those different options and what would be best for them. Again, what is best for me might not be best for you. So it's very personal and everything is accepted. Everything is fine.

I think that's a big thing from Unconscious Moderation: we never blame anybody. And if during those 30 days that you're not supposed to drink alcohol, someone drinks alcohol, we always say that's completely fine. Mistakes happen, but just keep going because you are still pursuing that and you are learning. So you are little by little integrating those tools in your brain, and it takes time for you to learn them and feel like they work, right? So go for it and continue, because that is not a failure and we're never going to blame anybody.

So yeah, sorry, I talk about too many things. We do the journaling, and then we do a little bit of movement and a little bit of reading—very short articles where we say, "Okay, how does alcohol affect sleep?" or "Peer pressure," or many different things related to alcohol consumption. So that is 30 minutes a day during 30 days.

And then on day 30, people decide if they want to completely stop drinking for the rest—the other 60 days—or if they want to start introducing alcohol little by little. And then when they choose that, their app might look a little bit different because the ones that choose no alcohol will look exactly the same as the first 30 days. But the other ones that pursue moderation will have a tracking tool to see how many drinks they have and to make it conscious, right?

Because a lot of the times when we drink, we are not conscious that we're drinking. We just go to a bar or we go to a restaurant and we get a bottle of wine and we don't even know—we've had three glasses of wine, right? So if you do it consciously, if you have a tool that helps you track all those drinks, and then more tools that we also use, then you are conscious of, "Oh my God, I'm drinking 10 drinks a week and I didn't even know it. If someone asked me, I would've said, 'No, I have two or three drinks per week,'" right?

Amy: Right.

Silvia: So we realize that, and I think knowledge—self-knowledge—is powerful, very powerful, because then when you realize what's going on, then you take accountability and then you make those changes. And it really helps then with the unconscious work that we are doing as well.

Amy: Yeah, that's so true. You know, it's funny when you were talking about the journaling in the 15 minutes of the conscious training—is that the right word for the conscious?

Silvia: Yeah, conscious work, however you want to call it.

Amy: It reminded me—this is going to sound weird, but like role-playing, you know, like when you have kids and "Okay, well, when you go to school and someone says this, then what are you going to say and how are you going to respond?" And pre-deciding how you're going to respond in certain situations before it happens. I don't know, that was one thing that came to mind.

And then, you know, I love how you talk about just being aware and being conscious. I mean, I can't tell you how many times—this doesn't happen all the time because my husband and I are pretty much home buddies—but you know, you go out with a big group of people, and especially if you're with the company or something and the company's buying, then there's this free flow of wine and the joke is like, "Well, I only had one glass of wine, but it was refilled how many times?" You're not even paying attention. Of course these waiters are coming by just topping you off.

Silvia: That's a whole different—I learned to let it go all the way down.

Amy: Right, because I do like to know. And I'll put my hand over the glass, and then if I want it refilled, I'll let them refill it. But yeah, that kind of thing gets really tricky and really dangerous too, for sure.

So as I learn about your app, it sounds very intriguing. If I'm honest, the hypnotherapy part, for some reason, feels a little uncomfortable and I don't think I know the right word to put with it. I practice mindful breathing. I will practice meditation. Probably you would say, "Well, it's not really much different than having a guided meditation than hypnotherapy." But if we were sitting at a coffee shop or whatever, and I'm like, "I don't know, this just feels a little weird," what would you tell me to bring my comfort level up with the hypnotherapy part?

Silvia: Well, the first thing is that it's very normal that it feels weird because of the bad press that it has or that it used to have.

Amy: Yeah, like my only experience with hypnosis was at my—a billion years ago—at my high school graduation party. And they brought the guy and, yeah, like what was the example you just gave of like a turkey or something?

Silvia: Yeah.

Amy: They're like all of that nonsense, and it was so comical, but it's like, "Ha, I don't really want to be doing that," which I know that that's not what it's asking for. But anyway, you're right. That's what we see. That's the entertainment part of it.

Silvia: Yeah, but that is a different approach in that the hypnotherapy that we use is never going to knock you out. You are not going to completely go and fall in a chair. You are still conscious, so you are in control all the time. And the reason why a lot of people are a bit uncertain or a bit uncomfortable when we talk about hypnotherapy is literally that, because they think, "I am going to lose control and somebody's going to suggest me to do stuff that I don't want to do." But that is not how it works.

So you, even though you go into that deep state of relaxation, you are still aware of everything that's happening. You can still cut it at any time, same as any meditation that you've done. If you are bored of it or if someone—the door rings or your phone rings—you can cut it and just go for it, right? It's the same with hypnotherapy. At any point that you consciously want to stop it, you can. So you have the power to do that. You're not just absorbed in that sound or that voice and you are not capable of leaving when you want to.

And also, the hypnotherapy and the suggestions that we say are aligned with your values. So if we do a hypnotherapy session and at one point I say, "You're going to rob a bank, you're going to rob a bank," right? And I'm going to try to convince you to rob a bank—if you don't want to rob a bank, you're not going to do it because that is not aligned with what you're consciously working on. Because you're consciously working on having better habits, changing that relationship with alcohol, right? You're not trying to rob a bank, so that is not going to happen.

Only the suggestions that you believe in consciously will happen, right? Because it is just an amplifier of what you want to do consciously. Because in the unconscious mind, a lot of things get stuck and we get stuck in that safety feeling of "this is comfortable because I've been doing this for five, 10 years," right? Or 20 years, who knows, depending on the person. So targeting that from the conscious mind, as I said before, can be tricky. So what hypnotherapy does is just untie all those knots that were created in the unconscious mind that were not letting you pursue that change that you've been trying.

Amy: Okay, well that makes me feel a little bit better. And so it's something that's prerecorded?

Silvia: Mm-hmm.

Amy: Okay. All right. So we would just hit play and do that for 15 minutes. And then do you have to do the conscious part right after, or can it be broken up into separate times?

Silvia: It can be broken up because we want to make it very accessible for people, because we know that some people don't have 30 minutes because they have kids or they have grandkids, or they have work or many different reasons why. So you can do the 15 minutes—which again, if you wake up in the morning, you can wake up 15 minutes earlier, or you can do it at night or if you have a lunch break, whenever suits you. And then you can do the other part, the other 15 minutes, when you—you can do one in the morning and one in the evening, however suits you best, right? We give all the options out there for people so they can choose if they want to do it all together or if they want to break it up, however suits people best.

Amy: Well, and going back to what you were saying earlier, it seems like whatever will encourage you to keep doing things so that you can build those neural pathways and make those stronger. You were talking earlier—it's like, what's the path? You didn't use these words, but what I wrote down is: what's the path of least resistance? And that's what our brain is going to go to. And so making those paths that we want to go on bigger and stronger and not doing the other ones that maybe we have been doing for so long.

When you talk about the journaling aspect or the movement, I'm just wondering if someone wants to kind of experiment with a couple of these things on their own before jumping into the app, do you have any suggestions on things that we can kind of play around with to change the conscious mind, I guess?

Silvia: I think there's a lot of journaling prompts out there that maybe are less targeted to the work that we're doing, but they're more broad, but they're always useful because any journaling prompt is very useful. I would say the mind doesn't differentiate if you're talking to a person or if you're writing on a notebook, right?

And what I like about the second option is that you don't get the judgment. So when you are trying to make a change and to do something different for yourself, there's a lot of fear of "what are other people going to say?" So if you just grab a notebook and write, "How do I feel about this?" or "Why do I want to change it?"—understanding the why is a very important aspect of it. So I always ask people why. And when they connect with the why and they understand where everything comes from, then they can take further steps, right? Because getting—taking that first step is always the scariest one. It's where we have the most resistance.

And something as little as asking why—you just sit down and ask yourself why, right? It's very accessible and it can take a very long time to connect with that why, because maybe we have to uncover some layers that we haven't visited in a while. So just understanding that is very valuable. You can learn a lot from that.

And then from the movement part, we like to add the movement because the body stores a lot of tension and a lot of emotions, especially the hips, right? So if we do—it doesn't need to be an hour-long yoga session, and it doesn't need to be very complicated poses either. If you do some stretches, five-, 10-minute stretches, 15-minute stretches, you have many videos on YouTube to understand what we're going to do in the program, then you are ready to pursue it. And we don't do many different things apart from putting the legs up the wall while you're laying down on the floor, figure four, stuff like that, that is very accessible for everybody, even if you are not very flexible.

Amy: Okay. Back to the knowing your why—it is so true that that is both impactful. You know, as a personal trainer, I've taken continuing education classes and that's one of the things that I have learned is you really need to get your clients to understand what is the why? And it needs to be beyond "because I want to lose five pounds." That's not going to change anything. And so, you're right. I mean, just unpacking and peeling off those layers can be so beneficial. But it does take work. It takes time sometimes to figure that out. And I love all of that. Gentle movement. And you're right, our stress does stay stuck in our hips.

Note to self, I think I probably need to stretch my hips a little bit more, but let's talk about this from the perspective of my community. You know, more and more data is coming out that just says that really alcohol is just not great for you. The pendulum swings and the evidence is really showing that it is the opposite of health promoting, which I think is what we were told for so long. Especially again, perimenopause, menopause, post-menopause, all of that.

So I think a lot of us are trying to figure out, "Okay, how can I change my relationship with alcohol?" And a lot of us will have that "I'm going to wind down at the end of the day." A lot of people will use wine as a chance to connect with others, whether it's their spouse, whether it is with their friends. And so I'm wondering if you have any alternatives that you can suggest, particularly when it comes to our relationships with others that used to revolve around that bottle of wine. What can—do you have any suggestions of what we can consider as something different rather than "Let's go to happy hour"?

Silvia: It really differs depending on the situation—if people are open to making changes as well, or if they just say, "No, I'm not going to do what you're doing. I'm going to continue drinking." Because if you can have—if for example, someone pursues moderation and they say, "Okay, we are still going to go to happy hour, but instead of going three times a week, maybe we go once and then the other times that we meet, we go for a walk or we arrange flowers. It can be anything, right?"

So if you can have that balance, then I believe that when you take alcohol out of the picture, the relationships that you have are way more meaningful because when alcohol is in the mix, sometimes you don't get to have very deep conversations. You just have very simple, easy, funny conversations, but maybe some of your friends are struggling or maybe you even are struggling, and when you're not under the influence of alcohol, then you are more able to connect with those people, and then those people are more able to connect with you.

And what I always remind people is that that connection that sometimes they feel like they get with alcohol is fake because you are under the effects of alcohol, right? So having a conversation and being able to think deeply and understand yourself and others more deeply—maybe it's because I'm a psychologist and I love having that type of relationships, but for me it is a gift. It's a gift to be able to feel fully myself with my partner, with my friends. For me it's the best thing, right?

And when you're stuck in those types of relationships where everything is alcohol, maybe when you start realizing that those relationships are not really good friends—maybe they're friends to have fun with and you can keep them and if you want to go drinking from time to time. But are they giving you much? Are they fulfilling that feeling of friendship, of connection, right? Because maybe they're not. You are just spending time with them, but you're not connecting with them, right?

And what gives you the benefits of feeling fulfilled and feeling content is the connection. It's not just spending time with people, because then I talk to a lot of people that say, "I'm always surrounded by other people, but I feel very alone. I feel very lonely," right? And I'm like, "Yeah, because you're not connecting with those people. You're just going out or not showing your true colors. And the others are not showing their true colors either. You're just having very superficial relationships and you're not connecting. You're not feeling loved." And that is the key for me.

Amy: Yeah, that's so true. It's funny, over the last several years I've been kind of redefining my relationship with alcohol and my husband and I—just less and less and less and less. And one of the things I have found is I prefer not to drink in social situations anymore. So if I'm going to my book club, if I'm going to something else, I found that I enjoy it more without wine, or without alcohol because I think it's exactly what you said. I feel like I can connect more and I'm just more present rather than being distracted easily or, let's be honest, forgetting what I said the next day. And that's not from over-drinking and that's just, you know, my mind was under the influence of a glass or two. So that's been a really nice progress to just witness in my own life is how empowering that is, which is kind of a strange thing.

Silvia: Yeah, no, definitely. That's what I talk about—what I help people with when I have patients asking me that, like, "How do I approach those connections?" And I'm like, "Well, think of how deep those connections are and how connected you are to the present," because you explained it very well. It's a game changer because when you're starting to feel aware of everything that's going on, and you are—I don't want to say in control because maybe it's a bit weird, but when you are just aware and present, you're feeling like you're living in the now, which is key to then enjoy and connect with what you're doing and what other people are doing.

And also something related to the question that you asked me before: another thing that I always tell people is try to connect with what you like doing. Because when we are kids, we do what we like all the time. We're playing a lot. We draw a lot. And when we have time, like extra time after school, we do extracurriculars and people go play any sort of sport or any sort of instrument or any different hobby, right? And the older we get, the more we forget those hobbies.

Amy: Yeah.

Silvia: And when we reconnect with stuff that we like doing, it doesn't need to be running marathons like we did when we were 15—it is whatever, whatever age, but you connecting with hobbies, connecting with what you like doing also gives you that feeling of connection that we were talking about and that feeling of being present, right? So instead of spending your evenings in happy hours, you said before maybe you can still go, but then half of them spend them in happy hour and then half of them spend them doing something that makes you feel fulfilled, right? Even if it's learning how to sew or learning how to bake, or it can be anything.

Amy: I hear there's a real upturn in what they call grandma hobbies right now, like quilting and sewing and all that kind of stuff. So here's our opportunity—many of us are, many of my community are already grandmas, but you can create some grandma hobbies if you want.

Okay, so your app, Unconscious Moderation, sounds very interesting. Tell people where they can go to learn more or to get the app.

Silvia: So to get the app, they can go into the app store or Google Play and they just type "unconscious moderation" and they'll find it. But if they're still—they want to learn a bit more how the program works—in our website, everything is explained very step by step and you can have a lot of information about the team that we're behind it. So the website is unconsciousmoderation.app, and yeah, you'll find everything there. And I always redirect people to the website because we have a lot of information. We have blogs about different topics, so it's the best place to go.

Amy: You do—it is a very rich website. So I recommend if you want to get on there and stalk and check things out, for sure. And I want to just mention that we haven't really talked about, but I had Sarah Pritchard, who is with Impact Recovery Centers, on my show in Season 23 talking about addiction. And I feel like we need to make a really quick disclaimer that if someone is listening and they feel like they may be physically addicted to alcohol, it is very dangerous to stop without medical supervision. So this is for those who do not have a physical addiction to alcohol. If you do, then there are people to support you with that. But use medical help rather than stopping cold turkey here because that's not what this was designed for.

Silvia: Yes. That's a very good disclaimer because this app is for the sober curious, the ones that are in the gray area, but again, that gray area is great. So you cannot know sometimes where you are at. So if you have any sort of doubt, it's also good to visit your GP or a doctor that tells you what step you're at, and then if you're able to do a program like this or if you would need additional help and you are not able to quit cold turkey without having any consequences in your body.

Amy: Sure, sure. Yes. Okay. All right, Silvia, I have some questions I like to ask all of my guests. One of them is I love learning about people's tattoos because I found that when someone chooses to put something on their body for the rest of their life, most of the time they have a reason behind it or a story. So I was wondering if you had any tattoos, if you'd be willing to share what they are and the meaning behind it. If you don't, but you had to get one, what would it be and where would it go?

Silvia: I don't have any tattoos. I've had ideas—I've had loads of ideas—and I'm always like, "I'm going to get it." But then I chicken out and I don't, so I've never actually done it. I think I've had two ideas that have been with me for like over five years. And one of them is the word "globetrotter." Because I found that word when I was like 15. I remember, because I love traveling. I'm from Spain, but I am always looking for ways to travel to explore the world and my grandpa was like that as well. And my grandpa died 10 years ago and I had a very strong connection with him.

And one day I was studying for my—I suppose the equivalent of the SATs, is it called in the US?

Amy: Standardized test, yeah.

Silvia: Yeah. Exactly. And I was at my grandma's house and I was in my grandpa's old office because I was staying there and I had that word in my mind a lot because I loved it and I wrote it in my agenda. Typically you do when you're a teenager, right? You write the words that you like. My grandpa had many traveling guides, right? Because when he traveled, there was no Google Maps, there was no Google or no anything, right? So he had many guides, and there was one on the table that I was studying in and the title was "Globetrotter." And I was like, "Oh my God, I've been writing that word everywhere. And now that word is like a sign from my grandpa," right? And I've been very attached to that story and that idea, but I've never had the guts to do it.

Amy: In your own time. That's okay. That's a super cool story. I love that. I love that wink from him on the desk after his passing. That's awesome.

Okay, so we've directed people to the app website. And we'll put all the stuff in the show notes as well, but just in case people are listening, where can we find Unconscious Moderation on the socials?

Silvia: So Unconscious Moderation as well on Instagram at unconsciousmoderation.app, and they will be able to find it. As we're doing the rebranding that I was talking to you about before—we were My Dry 30 before, now we're Unconscious Moderation—you can still find us under My Dry 30, but right now the Instagram is unconsciousmoderation.app and yeah, they'll be able to find everything that we're putting—memes and sharing other people's stories and stuff like that.

Amy: Okay. That's great. Awesome. Okay, Silvia, I'm going to let you have the last word. From the entirety of our conversation, what is the one simple thing you would like people to remember about what we've talked about? It can be big or small, but just one simple nugget to take away.

Silvia: For me, the most important thing is that when you're not changing, you're choosing. And that's a very powerful sentence. To choose what you believe in and what you think is aligned with how you want to live life is very important for you to feel fulfilled and to be more able to connect with other people and with yourself.

Amy: That's great. Choose. That is all for today. Go out there and have a graced day.