Host: Amy Connell
Guest: Cheri Fletcher
Amy Connell: Hey, today on the podcast I have my friend Cheri Fletcher joining us, and Cheri is the host of the Your Spiritual Game Plan podcast. Her life took a pivot when her daughter passed away unexpectedly. So today we're going to be talking about her daughter Annie, and we're going to get to learn a little bit about Annie and then some of the things that Cheri learned in terms of communication with others and how to help others communicate with people who have lost loved ones.
So Cheri, I'm so, so thrilled that you are here on the Graced Health Podcast.
Cheri Fletcher: Well, I am honored to be here and it's just so much fun to be with you again. I always love my time with you, so thank you.
Amy Connell: Well, longtime listeners will know—I mean, this is like OG listeners—that back in 2019, you and I did a podcast when you were getting ready to have an ACL surgery.
Cheri Fletcher: Yes. Well, I had ACL.
Amy Connell: ACL. So we were kind of talking about prehab and going into recovery, and that's when you and I met for the first time. So I feel like it's only fair that we let people know that we are friends. But what's crazy about this is we met in November 2019 and we have not seen each other since then. However, through the gift of technology and Marco Polo—shout out to Marco Polo—I mean, we talk a lot.
Cheri Fletcher: It's a gift.
Amy Connell: And it's funny, whenever I talk to my husband about you, I'm like, "Well, my friend Cheri Fletcher, my friend Cheri Fletcher," so your last name is always with your first name.
Cheri Fletcher: He's probably like, "Do you have any other friends named Cheri?"
Amy Connell: I don't know that I do. I feel like I shouldn't say that out loud because I'm going to miss someone, but I don't know. That's just how I refer to you. So he knows that you are a very important person in my life and I'm so excited that you're here today. I've been wanting to have you on the show for a while and, you know, it's kind of weird circumstances, right, that you're here, so we'll get into that in a second.
But first—and people who heard the beginning of this probably know where we're going with this—you have three children, and your oldest, Annie, was a singer-songwriter. She had a huge heart for people. She lived in the Nashville area. And before we get into the meat of our conversation, I want you to tell us some about Annie.
Cheri Fletcher: Oh, everyone loves to talk about their children, but it's even more so when you've lost a child, because the biggest fear for any parent is that your child will be forgotten. And my husband's doctor said it so perfectly—he lost a brother and he said, "You know, I never thought about my brother every single day until he passed away."
Amy Connell: Oh.
Cheri Fletcher: And as a parent, you think about your kids, but Annie is now like 24/7. It's just 24/7 in your mind. And so when people ask you to talk about her, it's just right there, ready to come out. So it's like, "Oh, okay, I can talk about Annie."
So yes, Annie was my firstborn. And then I have two sons, so she was the only daughter. And on my side of the family, she was the only granddaughter of nine—there are eight grandsons—so she was pretty spoiled. She's a pretty spoiled girl, and she knew it and she loved it.
Fall was her favorite season, so I am looking through some of her fall stuff. I still have some of her sweaters. She wore—she loved Ugg boots and I tried to get her a new pair every year and she'd still wear the same old, ugly pair that she had in high school. And I'd say, "Here's some new ones." And she's like, "Yeah, I just love my old ones." And so now I have those old ones, but every year her ugly boots would come out in the fall. But she loved, loved the holiday seasons.
But yes, she was a singer-songwriter. She also had her master's in social work and at the age of 12 told us she would be moving to Nashville. That was her dream. And at age 14, she wanted to have a MySpace account. And of course, you know, that freaked me out. So we had the computer in the kitchen. I said, "Well, I have to have your password and I have to know every friend you have on here."
Well, one day she asked if she could accept a friend request from a girl named Jordan Mallory. I guess an algorithm put them together. And I'm not sure where Jordan was living at that time, but it was not Nashville. And she was a teenager as well, and they just started talking about their dreams of being in Nashville, and they carried that on into Facebook. They carried that on through high school, through college.
In 2019, Annie moved to Nashville and so did Jordan. And they became friends. And in fact, a song that Annie wrote and we produced after she passed away, Jordan Mallory sang on it. So that's pretty cool—full circle moment.
But Annie got her master's and she applied for a job and got a hit from, of all places, the company her dad works for. And she called and she's like, "Should I tell them, you know, who I am?" And we're like, "Well, it's on your resume. They didn't say anything, so just go for it."
So she got the job and about three months into the job, her boss came in and said, "Did you want to tell me something?" It just happened to be there—her dad's the president of the company. She said, "No, I wanted this job on my own."
So she worked as a social worker for a while until she was able to get out on her own in photography and singing and songwriting. And she just loved people. She loved to connect people. She would donate her photography just to get people's social media up, and anytime there was an opportunity to help someone in the singer-songwriter world, she was all in. And she loved to dance.
Amy Connell: Yeah, actually I have seen those videos that you have shared and she's adorable. I mean, you can tell that she was just a fun—dare I say, maybe spitfire?
Cheri Fletcher: Yes.
Amy Connell: Okay. So you talked about this briefly, and just to kind of bring everyone up to speed: Annie died in August of 2023 from undiagnosed colon cancer. And it was a very quick turnaround from going to the ER from coughing up blood to passing away. I mean, just within what, a couple weeks?
Cheri Fletcher: Thirteen days.
Amy Connell: Thirteen days? Yeah. And I don't want to gloss over the pain and the hardness of that story. But I have a lot we want to talk about. So if you want to hear more, go over to the Your Spiritual Game Plan podcast and it's Episode 236 and you can learn more there. So we will link to that in the show notes. And I invite people who want to learn a little bit more about that.
So here's the part where I ask the questions that are a little bit harder. How did this—I mean, I have always known you, Cheri, to be so faithful and to have so much trust in God. I can only imagine how that would rock my faith. I can only speak for me. So I'm wondering what that did with your faith.
Cheri Fletcher: Yeah. I've had people ask about being mad at God. And I can honestly say I have not been mad at God. I've always been a justice person. And I used to tell kids—I taught youth ministries—one of the reasons this world is not at peace is because we keep convicting the wrong person. And even though someone does get convicted for a crime, if the person that was violated knows that it was not the person, they're not going to have peace. And so I always believe convicting God of all of the tragic things that happen on this earth—you've got the wrong person.
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: And I turn my anger—I give my anger to God and I turn it towards Satan. And of course you pray and you pray and you pray all those nights in the hospital. And part of me—well, all of me, to be honest—believed I was going to get the miracle because we didn't know it was cancer.
Amy Connell: Sure.
Cheri Fletcher: She had pulmonary hypertension. And we were going to get this fixed. We were going to get this solved. And I mean, I would put my hands on her lungs and pray and pray and pray. And I was like, "We're going to have an amazing miracle story, and Annie, this is going to be a great song." And so your mind just—you're so numb and so just completely in shock that even the words don't really even come out at first. You're just kind of like, "What just happened?"
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: You're trying to find answers as to what did I miss? What did we not see? We didn't get the cancer diagnosis till about two weeks after she passed away when they did a bunch of biopsies. And so then you're medically trying to figure out what we missed.
But the day after she passed away, my Bible app verse was Isaiah 57:1, which talks about the righteous dying young. And it says, "I am sparing them from evil to come." I sat there and I thought, "Man, how many parents pray that God spares our children from evil? We say it in the Lord's Prayer, but do we really mean that?"
Like, does it mean, "Lord, you know, spare me, spare this evil, take this evil, take this cup from me, deliver us from evil, deliver us"—we say that, but when God... Do we tell God how that has to be done?
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: Do we... I mean, I don't have answers. I just had to trust that, okay, maybe there's a whole lot more I don't know. And God doesn't want this either.
In one of the blog pieces I wrote, I forced Annie—I forced the hospital to admit her.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: She did not want to be admitted. They tried to discharge her and they met a—you know, my doctor who I was texting with said to me, "It's time they meet Cheri Fletcher." And they met Cheri Fletcher. Annie was furious at age 29 that I would intervene and tell a doctor, "I'm not sending her home. I will call 911 right now."
And she was so mad at me that when we got her to her room, she told me to get the "blankety-blank" out of her room. She said, "Are you happy now, Mom?" And I said, "No, I'm not happy now." I said, "But this is where you need to be." And she said, "Well, then you can get the 'blankety-blank' out of my room." And I kissed her on the forehead and I said, "Okay, I'll see you in the morning."
And of course by morning she realized how bad it was. And she said, "Mom, I'm so sorry." She was just a spitfire like you said. And a few months after Annie passed away and people were saying things about being "God's will" and "God's will" here and there, I thought, "You know what?" God brought that memory back to me of Annie saying, "Are you happy now?"
Because at that time I needed her to be in that hospital. I needed them to admit her, but that was not my will.
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: But I needed them to admit her. It was my will that she'd be safe. It was my will that she'd be there at that time. That was the best scenario at that time. It was not my will.
And how many people, when they say, "God, Thy will be done," and God says, "Okay, but this is the best—this is the best place right now," and they say, "Then God, get the 'blankety-blank' out of my life."
Amy Connell: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: And God says, "Okay, I understand," but He'll kiss us on the forehead and He'll say, "Okay, I'll see you in the morning." He's not going to leave. He has a bigger picture in mind. Just like I knew there's a bigger thing here than my daughter understands. And I just hold onto that. I just hold onto that faith that when I get to heaven, there's a verse in Psalms that says, "When we see Him, we will be satisfied."
And I think the human mind feels that we deserve answers and that we're going to get in this line and ask Jesus all these questions. But it says when we see His face, we will be satisfied. And I just know when I see heaven and I see Annie and I see Jesus, I'm going to be like, "Oh."
Amy Connell: Okay.
Cheri Fletcher: I get it.
Amy Connell: I feel like God gave you such a spirit of wisdom with that story and pulling all of that together because, you know, where my mind was going was how many times do we say, "God, Your will be done," with a little asterisk on it. Right? And it's like, "And this is the will that You need to have."
Cheri Fletcher: Yeah, we surrender with stipulations.
Amy Connell: Yeah, that's a good way of saying it. So, well, thank you for sharing about that. You know, Cheri, the other thing is you've been pretty honest about your anger, your doubt, you know, asking "Now what, God?" Talk to us about how you have brought these very raw emotions—because a lot of us were brought up thinking like, "I can't say the hard things to God. You know, that's disrespectful. That doesn't honor Him. I can't be mad at Him. I can't doubt," you know, all of that. So how did you learn to bring those into your faith?
Cheri Fletcher: I think they're a part of my faith. God made us in His image and every emotion we feel is an emotion that God has.
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: And God is anger too. God is very angry right now at the way that this world is going. And so being angry is natural and I get angry. Anyone that goes through this will tell you that they'll get what's called emotional ambushes. And so you can't really describe what just happened that made you angry. All of a sudden you're just angry.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: At something that was said, something happened, and you're just angry. But it's never been at God. It's been turning it towards God. And I think we don't study the worship of lament enough to understand that most of the Bible is the worship through lament. It's the crying out to God. It's the turning to God with our anger, and God gets it. He's like, "I'm angry too, you know?"
He wants us to turn to Him and bring that anger to Him and praise Him through the pain. I sang at my daughter's funeral—
Amy Connell: I remember.
Cheri Fletcher: —and when they first asked me if I was, you know, if that's something I would do, I was like, "No, no." Then I thought, "Yes, Satan doesn't get the last word," because the one thing Satan can't stand and can't even be in the presence of is praise. He can't. And even if I'm mad at God and I'm not cursing at Him but just cursing the situation, that is still turning—that is still turning to God and praising.
Amy Connell: Hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: And it's beautiful. I love that song by Amy Grant, "Better Than a Hallelujah."
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: It's still God. I mean, anyone that has a kid, you want that kid, even if they're mad, to turn to you.
Amy Connell: Right.
Cheri Fletcher: It's just beautiful. And in Ephesians it tells us that everything that we're doing on this earth is like a sermon. It's like the heavenly are watching. They're going, "Wow, here's this person that's in pain, but they are turning to God." And to me, that's what I want to punch that enemy in the face with.
Amy Connell: Yeah. Well I think you have, and you know, that's probably something we don't spend enough time on in this area, you know, in our Graced Health is that worship of lament. I feel like—I know I've had a good conversation with someone else, but I can't remember who it was off the top of my head—but it's true. And how many of the Psalms are laments?
So yeah, that's—and just the permission and just someone saying this is biblical. Like this is part of our full story and it deserves its own place at the time that it needs it. So for anyone needing—I don't want to say permission, it's not like it's your permission to give, Cheri—but just a reminder that lament is a part of our faith. There we go. Yeah, there it is.
After Annie passed—so I will say this, I have not had anyone very, you know, like really close to me pass away yet. I will because we're all terminal, right? But I haven't. I mean, we've had my father-in-law pass. And he and I had a fun and wonderful relationship. But I haven't lost a parent. I haven't lost a child. I haven't lost a deep, deep, deep, deep friend.
But I do know this, that when someone loses someone they care about, things can get kind of strange in terms of communications. I'm wondering, with as much as you are comfortable talking about it, how did communication change either within your family, within friendships, within other relationships at church? Because I mean, you and I are talking a little bit ahead of time and I'm well aware of this—people will see, you know, like, "Oh, there's Cheri, her Annie just died. I'm going to turn and pivot, you know, pivot and walk away. I don't know what to say."
And so I'm just wondering if you can talk to us some about how communication changed in any relationship that you feel comfortable talking about.
Cheri Fletcher: Yeah. You know, grief is—I don't feel that grief is well handled in this Western culture at all. You know, we give people from one to five days to one week off for bereavement.
Amy Connell: Right.
Cheri Fletcher: Where in other cultures it's a 30-day or more time. We don't talk about it. We just clam up. We don't—tears are uncomfortable. People want to stop them instead of just allowing them to happen. And I will admit I was more that way before.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: So this has been a humbling moment. But the loss that I'm going through—I think the loss of a child is one of the most horrifying losses. And people are—it's a terrifying loss. And so when people say to me, "I can't imagine what you're going through," I believe that they actually are imagining what it's like to lose a child. And I think what they mean to say is, "I can't even imagine this kind of pain. I can't absorb it. I can't think for one second. I don't even know how to think about this kind of pain," because they are imagining, "What if I lost my child?"
Amy Connell: Right.
Cheri Fletcher: And it's very intimidating. I tell people I feel grief is like a wall. I'm on one side and you're on the other. And different people will approach this wall different ways. There's going to be people that are very comfortable not even knocking, just opening the door and coming right on in. You were one of those people, just right on in and just like, "How are you? Tell me about your daughter. What's going on?" And they're just going to sit with you.
And then there's people that'll knock on the door, but they want to stay on that side, but they'll knock and they'll talk to you and they don't want to come in. Some people that will leave a gift on the door and walk away, but at least you know. All these different ways that people—that will look in the window and kind of wave, make sure you're okay. Then there's people that just have to keep walking. The wall is just too intimidating to approach.
And so I think there needs to be an understanding that if you are a griever, that it's very scary for them. It's overwhelming to approach our wall.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: They're terrified to say something wrong.
Amy Connell: Right.
Cheri Fletcher: They're scared that they'll say something to hurt us, but we are already in pain 24/7, so you're not going to say anything to make it worse. Or they'll say, "Well, she's not talking about it, so I'm not going to talk about it." But I'm waiting for you to talk about it. All this misunderstanding and this miscommunication.
Also, different people, they've all lost different aspects of Annie. They've lost a cousin. They've lost a niece. They've lost a granddaughter. They've lost a friend. And how they communicate that's going to be different as well. And then as a parent, you can get into the, "Yeah, but she was my kid and you didn't lose a kid." You can get defensive of your loss. There's just so many different dynamics.
But the person you were prior to this loss, you'll never be that person again. So if someone is listening and their friend or loved one lost a child or a significant loss, you're waiting for them to call you. We're not going to call you. We are so drained and so empty, we can't even think about what to do tomorrow, much less who hasn't called us. So to think, "Oh, I haven't heard from Amy. Maybe she's waiting for me to call her." I don't even think that way.
Or if they're thinking, "Well, it's been two years, so Cheri should be back to her old self." There is—that old Cheri is not there. I've had an amputation. I used to run a lot. And since Annie's passed, I don't have the energy to run. But if I had my leg amputated, you wouldn't ask me when I was going to run my next marathon.
Amy Connell: Mm. Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: Right off the bat. Maybe in 10 years if I had something, but you wouldn't ask me that. So the old Cheri's just—there's no—I'm not that person anymore. And so the way the dynamic changes, the way I used to do things, if I was the hostess with the mostest, that's probably not going to be me for a long time or if ever. So there's just got to be some give and take on both ends.
Amy Connell: I like your analogy of losing a limb. Because a part of you obviously is totally lost and the way you relate in the world, in everything you do, if you lose a limb is going to be different. And that's just a great visual to give us of like, "Oh, oh, okay, this is why, you know, she's either not calling me or she's doing something different, or she was always the person to do this and now she's not." And because a piece of you is totally missing.
Cheri Fletcher: Yeah. And siblings, you know, my kids—everyone wants to know how I'm doing, but no one checks on the siblings. So if you know someone out there, the siblings are called the forgotten grievers, and they just rarely get checked in on, they rarely get any comfort.
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: It's always like, "How's your mom?" Well...
Amy Connell: Oh gosh. Oh, I'm so sorry that—yeah. And but they are kind of forgotten. You know, it's funny. You just don't think about that. I mean, I think about people I knew in college and I know that there was one particular person who lost their brother and it never occurred to me how painful it would be on him. You know? You just think more of—
Cheri Fletcher: They talked every day via text. They had a text thread going. It was so precious. The other day, my oldest son texted me this random text, and at first I was like, "What in the world?" And then like five minutes later, he just said, "I would have texted that to Annie."
Amy Connell: Oh yeah. He needed a place to send that. Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: I said, "Thank you for sharing that with me. That made—that meant the world to me." But you know, he's probably like, "Who do I send this to?"
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: "I would have sent this to my sister."
Amy Connell: Right, right. Yeah. Thank you for giving us some of these little pro tips for lack of a better word. You know, like, sit with the person. Don't wait for their call. You know, you're never going to be back to your old self. Check in with the siblings.
I also know you heard "I don't know what to say" a lot. And let me tell you, I am the first person to admit, this is something I say like, "I don't know what to say," because you want to say something, but you don't want to say something to make it worse, which you've taught us, you know, you can't. You want to say something that's either helpful or, you know, you want to do something, but you don't know what to do. I mean, so again, I have absolutely done this.
But Cheri, this is your Enneagram. Well, you're a seven, right?
Cheri Fletcher: A seven with a really strong wing eight.
Amy Connell: Eight. Okay. All right. I was thinking there was either like a three or an eight in there. Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: Annie told me I was an eight and I kept taking the test saying, "No, I'm a seven," because she is a seven. "You're an eight." I'm like, "What?"
Amy Connell: Okay. Okay. Well, the eight is shining through very much here because you were like, "Okay. We're going to do something about this."
Cheri Fletcher: Yeah, yeah.
Amy Connell: And so you created these—my thing is open, so if you're watching on YouTube—but it is "Beyond I Don't Know What to Say." And these are question cards for those walking with someone they love through grief. And so there are all of the—I mean there's—are there—I'm 50. Okay. I was thinking there's a lot of beautiful thick, you know, cards for just people to ask questions.
Cheri Fletcher: Yes.
Amy Connell: Instead of saying, "I don't know what to say." So tell us some more about these cards.
Cheri Fletcher: Well people such as yourself would ask me great questions. And I loved that because it took the kind of the strain off.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: Of coming up with things to talk about. But it also said, "Oh, they want to get to know my kid," or "They want to remember my child." And I would write them down on a document and I still do.
And we were going to get together for the one-year Annie anniversary. You know, my son, my middle son got married three months after Annie died.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: And my youngest son got married exactly one year before she—the year before she passed away. So they're newlyweds. Boys in general, when you want to sit down and as a family and sit down and talk, they're like, "Oh."
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: "We want to talk? Like what?" And I had said, "Hey, we're going to go on this trip for the one year, and we're going to just have a fun time. We're going to go somewhere we've never been, new memories. But I do want to take some time to reflect on how the year has been with each one of us."
And I knew that that was going to make my poor daughters-in-law go, "Oh my word, I'm just new to this family." And then it was going to make my sons kind of be like, "Do we have to write down our feelings? Like what?" And I thought, "Okay, my kids love card games."
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: "I'm going to just take these questions and put them on index cards." And they just—we just laid them on the table and they were just there. And when we'd sit down, we would just pull a card and answer the question. And each person's going to answer it differently. And so you would see different sides of Annie that you didn't know.
And some of them are funny. "What secrets can you tell now?" Just little funny—
Amy Connell: I haven't seen that one yet.
Cheri Fletcher: Some are inspirational, like "What are some of Annie's characteristics that you hope to carry on into your family?" You know, and each one's going to name a different one. And my boys loved it because it took the pressure off. No one had to think of something. My daughters-in-law got to learn different parts about Annie. They answered questions. It was no pressure. We would talk and laugh and then we would get up from the table and go do something. It wasn't—it just broke that, that "I don't know what to say" for our family.
But also for people, if you were going to call me and you're like, "I haven't talked to Cheri for a while, I'm going to pull out one of these questions and begin a conversation."
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: It helps you feel a little bit more confident. And it also, to me, takes the pressure off me having to come up with something to say about my daughter or what's going on in my life right now. And because as a griever, I don't want to come into your space and make it all about me and my grief.
Amy Connell: Right.
Cheri Fletcher: But if you ask me a question, it's very welcoming.
Amy Connell: Yeah. It sounds like you want to be invited to do that. And I can understand that. Yeah, I love the concept of this. And so it sounds like, I mean, to me, I feel like every household in America needs one of these because it's—you're either going through grief or you know someone who's going through it and like keep them on hand.
Cheri Fletcher: Well, what's cool about it is like with your father-in-law—
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: If you guys sat down and answered these about him and your husband was talking about answering about his dad, your sons are going to learn different things about their grandfather they never knew.
Amy Connell: Yeah. Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: And then, you know, my grandkids, they'll get to learn about things about their Aunt Annie that they didn't know Aunt Annie, but here's some fun things. And it just comes up with different stories and just learn different things about your loved one that you didn't even know.
Amy Connell: Yeah. Oh, I love it. Yeah. It's so great.
So we've—you've kind of guided us through, Cheri, some of the things to do to support someone who has lost a loved one. I know that you also—and you do not need to be naming names or pointing fingers—but I know that you've also experienced some things of like, "That was—that didn't land, I don't think like you thought it would." Do you have anything that you recommend not to say to someone who's lost someone?
Cheri Fletcher: Yes. And that's a hard one because like you said, this isn't a place to shame. And I say if anyone approaches—if anyone takes the time to approach you, I think you the, as the griever, please be compassionate and have grace immediately because that person took the time to step into your pain. And that's huge.
But comments that aren't scriptural are not helpful. There's nowhere in the Bible that when we go to heaven, we become an angel. We're not going to be—we were not created angels and we're not going to be angels.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: We are going to be ourselves.
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: And so when they say "God needed another angel," no, God did not come and just say, "Well, I'm missing an angel. I'm going to go yank one of these off the earth." I mean, that's just not even—
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: That's not helpful. And also if the griever isn't quite strong in their faith, that really makes it an unfair view of God.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: You know, "Well, God has a plan." We all do know and believe that God has a plan, but my saying is "God has a plan. The enemy has a plot." And I believe the loss of my daughter is a plot. I do not believe it was the plan. The plan was that God gave us His son so that I can have my child back. God gave up His child so I can have my child. But my child's sickness and death was not the original plan whatsoever. And that doesn't help me feel better. Saying those things, even if they're true, they don't eliminate my pain. Just acknowledging my pain.
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: Those are the—everyone wants to eliminate the pain. That's just natural. But it's the little things that we do that alleviate the pain, the little kind gestures, asking me, "What can I do?" "Let me know if you need me."
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: I'm not—that—then again, if you put responsibility on the griever, that is really unfair because "call me when you feel like talking," "let me know what you need"—I don't know what you can do for me. So just do it.
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: You know, if you're at the dry cleaner and you see my name, this is from an example from somebody doing it. They saw my name. It was close to their name. They're like, "Hey, I'm going to pick up her dry cleaning too."
Amy Connell: Oh yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: I reimbursed them, but they knocked like, "Hey, I saw your dry cleaning. I just picked it up." I was like, "What?" Like—
Amy Connell: That's doing something. Yeah. Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: Doing something or just calling. I have a girlfriend that—and that "no expectation of reply" is huge.
Amy Connell: Okay. Okay.
Cheri Fletcher: She texts me every day. Okay. And I know if I don't reply every day, and I don't—I've been three days, I haven't replied—she's not thinking about it at all.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: Do not tell someone to "hang in there," please. Nowhere in the Bible are we told that we're hanging. God does not leave us to hang. In fact, over and over He tells us He's holding us. So look for ways that God is holding you in there. If someone tells you "hang in there," say, "You know what, I'm actually being held pretty well by friends and family." So don't tell someone to hang in there.
Amy Connell: I was just quoting you the other day on that. Yeah. Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: You know, I try to look back and see the ways that God has been—
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: —held us through. But so just make sure that what you say, especially when it comes to God, that it's actually scriptural. But most of the time we don't need a scriptural thought. We just need you to say, "Hey."
Amy Connell: "I'm thinking of you." Yeah. Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: "I'm thinking about you. I know it's fall. What would Annie have been doing in the fall?" And even if someone asks me how I'm doing, sometimes it's like what? I have to stop and think of that too. So just a question about what your child or loved one would be doing this time of season. What was their favorite dessert during this type of season? Just inquiring about the person. We don't need cute clichés.
Amy Connell: Hmm. Yeah, that's really good. I had a friend in college lose her mom about two months after we graduated, and I think I saw her—she actually came to my wedding a week later, which I cannot believe she did. But then I saw her a couple weeks after that and so many people had said, "Let me know if there's anything I can do. Let me know if there's anything I can do."
A couple of the friends would put their hand on her arm and say, "Don't call me. Don't tell me if there's anything you can do." I mean, just kind of mocking the—
Cheri Fletcher: Yeah.
Amy Connell: —all of the placating things because they recognized how much people were saying that. And I'm sure I was saying that again because we don't know what to say. But now we do, now we do, Cheri, because of your cards. So thank you for creating those. I just—like I said, I think that this can be helpful for anyone on either side of grief because we're all going to be—we're all on one side or the other, and we'll be on both sides by the time we go home.
Yeah. Okay. And so we will put—I'm going to put the links to these cards in the show notes. And you've been super generous, Cheri, and have offered 10% off the cards with the code GRACEDHEALTH10. So go over to cherifletcher.com. There's a link there to get over there. If you're interested in getting the cards, you can go to cherifletcher.com, you can see the link there and put in that code GRACEDHEALTH10 for 10% off.
And then you also, Cheri, real quickly have a five-day reflection that is free for people. So tell people really quickly what that is.
Cheri Fletcher: Yeah. If you subscribe to my email, which right now is not on a consistent regular—it is hit and miss, I will put that out there. But I did create a five-day reflection guide called "Comfort in the Silent." And each day for five days, you would just get a download. It would have a scripture, and then a reflection from me. And then a prompt, a way for you to discuss your loved one and make a journal entry. And just my goal is to always have a way to bring about discussion, an open discussion, whether that's journaling or sitting down with your family and answering the prompt together. I mean, that's a five-day download when they subscribe.
And I want to put a shout out to your cute shirt.
Amy Connell: I know, I know this is a great shirt. So if you can't see me, let me see if I can adjust. Here it says "Power. Love. Sound Mind." And it is from Annie's Lifers, right? Second Timothy 1:7. So yes, I knew I was talking with you and I was like, "Ah, I got to put the shirt on."
Cheri Fletcher: Thank you.
Amy Connell: Yes. Okay. I've got a few questions I ask all of my guests. I don't think I asked you this because I wasn't asking this question back when I interviewed you the first time. I love learning about people's tattoos and I know the answer to this. I know you do have a tattoo and—oh, you have two. That's right. You do have two. So can you tell us about those tattoos?
Cheri Fletcher: Yes, I even wrote a blog post about them because I've never wanted one. Not because I have any opinion about them whatsoever. I've just never—
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: —had one that I wanted to have on my body—
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: —until Annie.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: And of course, Annie's favorite flower is the sunflower, and her nickname was Bug. So on my arm, on the inside of my arm, I have a sunflower with a little ladybug on the leaf that was designed by an amazing Christian artist. I was on her wait list for a year and a half, and then that was a beautiful story. So she did a custom design just for me.
And then Annie would sign her name—she'd always sign off with a heart. And so Rachel, the tattoo artist, took her heart and put it on my wrist.
Amy Connell: I missed that.
Cheri Fletcher: So I have our heart.
Amy Connell: Love it.
Cheri Fletcher: I have our heart.
Amy Connell: Yes. Ah, I love that. I love that. And then we just kind of shared this, so I'm assuming that's the same one, but I don't want to assume, actually. So do you have a meaningful Bible verse that you would like to share?
Cheri Fletcher: You know, when I was podcasting, which my podcast is on hiatus—
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: —I used to ask my guests, "Looking back on your life, how far back can you go to see the very purpose you are living today and who you have always been?" Because I wanted people to see that who they are today is actually woven into who they've always been.
You know, we lived in Seattle before we moved to Tennessee. We never ever thought we'd live in Tennessee, ever. And we lived in Seattle for 30 years and that story's on a podcast.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: I'll send you the link to that one. But God clearly moved us to Tennessee and it was so clear back in 2020 that we moved. And knowing, you know, we didn't have family except for Annie and she lived in Nashville. And I know God moved us here so I could spend the last three years of my life with her.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: And so that I was here in Tennessee when she called me. Because she probably would not have called me—
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: —if I wasn't there. At that point my Bible verse became Deuteronomy 31:8, "The Lord himself goes before you." And I started looking back and I started asking myself, "Looking back over my life, how far back can I go and see how the Lord has always walked before me?"
And you can go back pretty far because I can see people back 20 years that God put in line for us, for knowing Annie would pass away. And we would need these things lined up. And certain places, certain events, certain people, like even Jordan Mallory—
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm.
Cheri Fletcher: —singing on Annie's song, He put things in place that we would and still rely on for our comfort. He went before us. And I tell people, "God paves the way. He paves it. If you follow Him, you don't have to pave it."
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: And so He's going before us. And so Deuteronomy 31:8, if you can look back over your life and see all the ways that the Lord himself has gone before you.
Amy Connell: Mm-hmm. That's so good. Okay. Tell people how they can connect with you and then I'm going to let you have the last word.
Cheri Fletcher: Well, like you said, cherifletcher.com.
Amy Connell: Okay.
Cheri Fletcher: And they can subscribe and that'll put them into my email system. Cheri@cherifletcher.com is my email. And I'm open to questions about her, you know, on Annie always. And grief and how to communicate. It's my passion now, I guess. Right?
Amy Connell: A new one. Yep.
Cheri Fletcher: Yeah. I want to make sure that the enemy—the plot of the enemy—if this is God's plan, then let's meet the enemy where his plot is. And the one thing he wants us to do is to quit communicating. He wants to divide families. He wants families to be separated and isolated. And I have tools to not do that.
Amy Connell: Yeah.
Cheri Fletcher: That's my spiritual game plan.
Amy Connell: Oh. And you just tied all of that together. That is great. Okay. That is all for today. Go out there and have a graced day.