86: Voting Across Communities with Latinos for Democracy

It needs to be said: communities cannot simply vote their way out of oppression. Too many citizens have been denied access to fair and safe elections due to economic barriers, burdensome new laws, a prior conviction, voter purges, inaccessible polling locations, or a host of other reasons. These stories are common, and dismissing them fails to recognize the heart of the problem. So, how do we solve these problems? And, why do communities impacted by gun violence need access to the ballot box?

To discuss, JJ and Kelly are joined by Michelle Zuluaga, a Civic Participation Manager with Latino Community Action Fund Georgia and Latinos for Democracy. Together, they're tackling the big questions--for example, is democracy a gun violence prevention issue?

Mentioned in this podcast:

• Amplifying Your Voice (Latino Community Action Fund Georgia)
• Census information (US Census)
• Why Vote (Latinos for Democracy)

For more information on Brady, follow us on social media @Bradybuzz or visit our website at bradyunited.org.

Full transcripts and bibliographies of this episode are available at bradyunited.org/podcast.

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National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255. 
Music provided by: David “Drumcrazie” Curby
Special thanks to Hogan Lovells for their long-standing legal support 
℗&©2019 Red, Blue, and Brady

Transcript

JJ Janflone : 0:08

Hey everybody, this is the legal disclaimer where I tell you the views, thoughts and opinions shared on this podcast belong solely to our guests and hosts, and not necessarily Brady or Brady's affiliates. Please know this podcast contains discussions of violence that some people may find disturbing. It's okay. We find it disturbing too. Hey everyone. Welcome back to Red, Blue and Brady. Today, Kelly we are joined by Michelle Zuluaga, the Civic Participation Manager for Latinas for Democracy. Latinas for Democracy is a nonpartisan civic education and voter mobilization effort that aims to increase participation and turnout of Latinx people in Georgia and beyond. Together, we're discussing why voting his gun violence prevention issue, and why communities impacted by gun violence need access to the ballot box then in our "unbelievable but," we're talking all about gun couture in the time of COVID-19. Finally, in our news wrap-up, I'm talking about the continued danger guns present to young people. So Michelle, Kelly, I'm so excited to have both of you with us. You know, as quarantine continues to stretch on and on and on. I've got to say these recordings have been really good in terms of me being able to, you know, interact with other humans. And now that are probably terrified you, Michelle, can you introduce yourself to our listeners?

Michelle Zuluaga : 1:36

Hello, hello, everybody. My name is Michelle Zuluaga. I'm the Civic Participation Manager for the Latino Community Fund in Georgia.

JJ Janflone : 1:44

And I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about, you know, what, what your group does, how it functions, every election cycle, and then, you know, what it's doing right now?

Michelle Zuluaga : 1:54

Absolutely. So, what the Latino Community Fund of Georgia, does here in the state of Georgia, of course, is we have created a bit of a network with Latino serving nonprofits. So, of course, there are so many community leaders that want to go out and do the work and you know, really, really help the community. But there are so many other things that still need to be addressed, right. So like funding, we provide funding for nonprofits. We also provide some training and workshop for nonprofits, and also advocacy for the Latino community. So, we really kind of create that network and that support system for other Latino leaders here in Georgia. So that way, they're able to serve the Latino community, the best way possible here in the state of Georgia.

Kelly Sampson : 2:44

That's wonderful. So I'm wondering if you could tell us in your opinion, if you see gun violence prevention as a democracy issue, and if so, why is that?

Michelle Zuluaga : 2:55

So you know, I I thought about this question, and I would say no, and the biggest reason why is because it's a way bigger picture than just voting in the polls. I would say partially yes, due to the lack of accountability to legislators and of course, gun owners, who and you know, in many instances are white, who aren't held accountable for having a gun and not using it the way it should be used or being irresponsible. But I would also say that the picture expands in the sense that minority communities don't have access to information, right. So information on how to get a license for a gun, or how to get information on how to be safe with a gun. Also, training on how to, you know, use a gun. So taking the time or hiring somebody to train you to use a gun is a privilege in itself. It costs money, it takes time, right. So, a person not knowing how to use a gun, but yet having access to a gun, that is also a bigger issue. And then, of course, for me speaking, when it comes to the Latino community, I would say and other immigrant communities from all over the world, would be language accessibility, right. So, any kind of gun ownership, gun legislation, any kind of those regulations, why isn't it accessible in other languages so that other people and people from all backgrounds are safe right? So I think that that is a bigger picture, and that is the bigger picture of gun violence. And of course, the correlation of, you know, crime and poverty, I think is a bigger issue. But of course, that is more, that is a big systemic issue.

JJ Janflone : 4:46

No, and I think that that's one of -- that's why I think it's so important that particularly, and we've tried to do this on this podcast, as best we can, is to sort of talk about you know, gun violence is itself super intersectional particularly when it comes to American life, unfortunately, but so is but but I think so is access to democracy. And I think a lot of the things you just highlighted are the same things that sometimes keep people, well actually, often times keep people from being able to fully participate in not just voting, but also just being engaged with their local government.

Michelle Zuluaga : 5:24

Absolutely. And, you know, a lot of people, I think, will automatically assume, for example, here in the state of Georgia, we have a big issue in the sense that and I'm, of course, speaking in from the perspective of a Latina growing up in the state of Georgia, right. You know, it can be a different experience in different states. But, you know, when it comes to growing up, I would always see so many of us being eligible to vote being, you know, turning 18, being a citizen. If, you know, if you if you are a citizen, and not necessarily going out and voting, and you know, my biggest thing is -- okay. And again, relating back to what I said earlier, access to information, language accessibility, right. Things and information that is available to different cultures and different communities that's just not available for everyone. So why don't people go out and vote? They simply don't have information and access on how to go and vote. So that's, you know, the big, big hurdle that us at the Latino Community Find, along with a lot of other Latino serving nonprofits under that Latinos for Democracy campaign and umbrella that we all work together. And so, you know, again, very complex, it's never just, you know, is it one thing or another the Latino community and of course, all communities are so diverse and so ccomplex. It's just really hard to put it under just, you know, black or white.

Kelly Sampson : 7:04

Yeah. And as you were speaking, you touched on something that I would love to hear you talk a little bit more about, and that's issues of access. And I think even as you were talking, you mentioned information or accessibility. So I was just wondering, you know, how do different communities access democracy? I understand, obviously, that the Latinx community is not a monolith. So I'm wondering if you could talk about some of those different access issues, some of the different barriers to participation, and how that impact or how that leads to separation or lack of engagement.

Michelle Zuluaga : 7:39

So, you know, if we're really going to touch on this topic, I mean, I would really have to go start with tradition. So us as Latina women, me, myself as a Latina woman, or even as immigrants. I was a first generation immigrant, so therefore I was born here, and I am I'm a naturalized citizen, but not everybody is. So if we go back to my country back in Colombia, my grandmother, she didn't vote till she was, you know, well into her 50s. She was about 57 when she voted my mom, she didn't vote till she was 44. My dad didn't vote until he was 41. And my brother has never voted, right. So I think that a big issue when it comes to minority or, you know, immigrant communities coming from all over the world is the history that they have with government back home, and that attitude that they have with government, right. You know, we have dealt with a lot of corruption, narco-governments, issues with corruption, right. Even in, I'm not from Mexico, but I know that Mexico was a one party state for a while they had a one party government for a very long time. So you know, it's that trust, right. And just because you get on a plane and you come to the United States where all of a sudden you have a visa that doesn't change. That -- that relationship with government doesn't change. So I didn't grow up seeing my parents vote, right? My mom didn't grow up, see her parents vote, and so on. So that is the lack of tradition and being engaged with democracy. So I think that that's the first part. The second part is access, right? So people do feel a bit discouraged when they feel that they don't belong, when they feel that, you know what, you're just here to attack my community, and I am just one vote, and I'm just not going to deal with this. You know, it's you just don't necessarily want to deal with it, especially when you come to a country like the United States for opportunity, and, you know, just to make ends meet in many, many instances. You just watch, you're focused on your goals, you are focusing on making ends meet on paying your bills, and sometimes focusing on democracy is a bit of a privilege and sitting down and taking the time to go out and vote is a bit of a privilege. So it is so multifaceted for many communities that we try to battle and we try to make it, for example, when it comes to our outreach, we want to make it as simple as possible. 'Go to this website and register to vote,' right? You know, 'click this link, here's the agreement. This is how you look at your my voter page, and here's all the information you need to know.' Just make it as easy and accessible for people. So I think that when, you know, when you ask me that, Kelly, it's, you know, I can talk about it all day. But really, you know, it does have to do with a mindset. And it's just a deep rooted issue, that now we're coming into the United States. And it's just a whole different dynamic that we are still adapting and assimilating to as a community, and I'm sure that as many other communities around the world come and you know, have to confront that as well.

JJ Janflone : 10:53

And I think that that's so it's, it's just super intriguing and interesting to me, because when I'm thinking about how I learned to vote, it was, you know, go in with my mom...

Michelle Zuluaga : 11:03

Right.

JJ Janflone : 11:04

...when she went to her polling place, and I don't think I've ever formally thought about how that process went. But yeah, I went with my mom as a kid to the polling place, and they even had like a kid's voter booth there, they filled out a little punch card. And I'm just thinking, if I hadn't done that, would I be as comfortable as an adult just sort of being able to suss out what is real information? What is not on the internet? What is a reliable source sort of information? And I don't think I would be.

Michelle Zuluaga : 11:32

Right. Right. And -- and so I think that's so beautiful, that you had that experience because honestly. Like, I found out the importance of voting through traumas, right through through the issues. I'm like, 'Oh my god,' like if I don't go out and vote and if our community doesn't move forward, like, we're gonna have to deal with this, you know, for the rest of like for generations.

JJ Janflone : 11:56

It's a completely different path. And I guess really, like honestly, it's a completely different way of interacting with democracy.

Michelle Zuluaga : 12:03

Right, right, right. May I ask you, Kelly, what was your experience learning how to vote and kind of understanding that you the importance of voting?

Kelly Sampson : 12:13

Yeah. So for me, my parents are -- oh wait actually I'm not going to say that 'cause I cant put their ages out there -- so just erase this part. So I grew up with in a family that is a result of the Great Migration, Black people from the south to the north. I grew up in Detroit, and so that legacy of the civil rights movement and this whole idea around how precious and almost sacred the right to vote is, especially for Black people was kind of instilled in me from my parents. And I recognize that not all Black people have that experience because of where they grew up, or the generations that they're in, or what have you. So I don't mean to assign that experience as a universal Black one, but for me, personally, that was kind of my introduction to voting. It was this idea that you know, your forbearers, especially since I'm not that many generations removed, so you will be able to point at people and members of my family from Alabama and say you know, 'do you know that great aunt so-and-so got hosed down with the fire hose in Birmingham,' and things like that. So kind of similar to JJ, it was something that my parents exposed me to when I was very young. And you know, would take me to the polls, or we would all as a family sit around and watch the State of the Union or watch poll returns come in, even when I was a child and it was almost it was almost in the same way. I've heard stories of people being like, well, you know, my dad is a doctor so I have to be a doctor. It was almost put to me as a this is not an option because you owe people who fought and died for this so you do not have an option. You and that's kind of how I learned, it's to not vote would be to be disrespecting people who came before me, that was my experience with it.

Michelle Zuluaga : 14:02

You know, and that's actually something -- thank you for pointing that out. Because honestly, that's really something that we're trying to put in our outreach and not necessarily in, you know, getting hosed down. I mean, you know, as Latinos, you know, we didn't go through that experience as much. Now, of course, there are some examples. Like, for example, there were some leaders in Colorado, there was the Chicano movement, of course, that existed, and that's there and we honor them. But, you know, if we're talking about like huge waves, especially after the drug war, a lot of people, my parents included, moved here, right. And we don't have that history, and just that, you know, push to go out and vote and be and be civically engaged. So, you know, we are trying to say, you know, you're voting for your family, you're voting for the people that can't vote, right. For us and many people and this is not exclusive just to, you know, the Latino community. I mean, there are undocumented people that come from all over the world but we are trying to because for us, it's really about family. It's really about protecting and being there for your community as well. So, so you know, it's not you're not only when I go and vote, I don't only think about me and what benefits me, but I also think about people who are undocumented or happen to be documented my DACAfide fellow. I call them Americans, because hey, I, you know, I pledge allegiance to the flag next to a lot of DACAfide people like other DACAfide Americans, I also think about them. You know, I feel that my my vote is not just mine, it's also for the people who aren't able to vote today. So you know, and that's a powerful message, right? Just like the powerful message that JJ got when she was voting. And Kelly, you know, when your parents like, really sat you down, and you guys have these traditions. Just with us, our experience with government is just so different. And, you know, our experience with government was if you vote, if you vote for the wrong person, something bad can happen to you, right, back home. Or if you vote or if you come out and say a political opinion, you would get killed in many instances. So it's just a different dynamic. But that is something that our generation, especially first generation immigrants, and second generation immigrants, we're just trying to change.

JJ Janflone : 16:21

And I think sliding into that change. I don't know how anyone, really it's just become difficult to have a conversation without talking about it. But the massive elephant-in-the-room, which is I think, the 2020 elections. And I'm wondering what--what you personally, but also, sort of, what your organization has been working for in terms of what's happening this election cycle. I mean, we're seeing things flagged for just access to voting, safety precautions around polling places, around ballot boxes. This fear of gun violence occurring while people are either protesting or going out to vote. And then these fears of you know, that there's massive racial injustice happening. So these are all things that have happened before. But I think they've really been flagged and brought out in a major way during this election cycle. And I'm wondering if we can just sort of talk about...

Michelle Zuluaga : 17:16

Of course, we can talk about. And you know what, so this is something that I've noticed, especially, you know, we live in a very, very partisan time, right, where everything is red and blue, everything has an R or a D in front of it. And that's just how it is. Ehen in reality, especially us who work in the nonpartisan field, we realize and we have that lens that not everything is red and blue, not everything is a fight, not everything is a discussion, right. With the upcoming elections, you know, our job is to simply put information out there, right. We do not endorse any kind of political figure, but it is important for people to know, hey, these are the facts. You don't have to be scared to, you know, submit an application for an absentee ballot. It's okay if you're more comfortable to just go and take it in person, that's fine. If you're going to go and vote in person, here's the information to do that. Right. Everybody has the right to decide and vote however they please. But you know, us, it's just our job to really combat things. And another big thing that I want to say is, you know, just because somebody goes behind a podium, and I'm not necessarily just just referring to the president, I could sit you know, here -- here in the state of Georgia, we have governor, we have our Governor Kemp and then also Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms. Just because somebody goes, whoever it may be, any political figure, goes on a stage or behind a podium and says something, that doesn't mean it's law. And unfortunately, people act like it is, right? People just react and just assume all these things when in reality, we just like happy to like, step back and really look into, okay, what what's really going on here? That has been, like, the biggest battle is really just combating people's fears, especially as the Latino community because we are being attacked constantly. But you know, just kind of breathe in and out, make sure everybody's registered, and make sure everybody has the information to make their own informed opinion. Because, you know, there is such a stereotype. And again, this goes back to just the partisan time in which we're living in. They think, you know, we say, oh, we're with the Latino Community Fund, Georgia, people immediately think we are a progressive group or that we are a partisan group, because we are 'Latinos' when in reality, Latinos are Catholic. Are you -- are you serious? Like, Latinos are so conservative, in so many ways, and there are so many Hispanics that simply vote different ways.

JJ Janflone : 19:58

Yeah, groups aren't monolithic, yeah, simply because they're not European-American.

Michelle Zuluaga : 20:04

Yeah! Or Caucasion. Right, exactly. And I'm sure you guys experience this, maybe in DC as well. It's just like everything is just so partisan, and people just assume things. Like when we're doing voter registration, for example, people ask me, 'What party are you registering for?' Like, like, who are you registering people for? It's like, do you understand that is illegal? Like, you can't do that like, and this has to do with of course, like, you know, a politician can't go, and they just can't say, oh, I'm gonna register you to vote if you vote for me, and that's why it's separated. That's why nonprofits, (c)3s, we register people to vote and campaigns aren't supposed to be doing that.

Kelly Sampson : 20:49

Yeah. And I think part of that is because, like you said, ostensibly especially in a "democracy," like the United States, voting and voter participation shouldn't be partisan at all, because that's -- that's supposed to be the spine of our country.

Michelle Zuluaga : 21:07

I think it's also just the fear of the unknown. I don't think they really understand how people but a lot of Latinos, yeah, just again, speaking from the perspective, are very conservative a lot, especially. But when it comes to one issue, immigration reform, you know, you're losing them. And you know, it's just very interesting, that whole dynamic. But yeah, people just -- just assume we're on one side or another, you know. There are so many ways of being civically engaged. And just like you mentioned, Kelly, voting. Voting is a nonpartisan act. Now who you vote for, that's, you know, of course, that in itself is is a partisan act, of course, because you vote one way or another. But voting, voter registration -- that is not partisan. It is you, as a person, civic participation is that you as a person, decide to do something for the betterment of your community, to better your community to make it more powerful, and, and in your opinion, you know. And that can vary between taking groceries to your neighbor, volunteering for a campaign, volunteering for, you know, a food drive or voting or a protest. I mean, it is so diverse, but not everything is red or blue. You know, and I think that that's like the biggest problem. And also going back to you, JJ, you know, that is preventing, it's turning people off. People don't want to participate in the elections or don't want to participate civically, or be civically active, because they're just so fed up with people nagging and being in this tug of war constantly.

Kelly Sampson : 22:49

And it's interesting that you say that too, from the chairs that we've fit in, because we talk about gun violence in the same ways, that from a simply' human being dying is bad' perspective.

Michelle Zuluaga : 23:02

Right?

Kelly Sampson : 23:03

Keeping people from being shot, keeping rampant violence from happening, keeping people from having to bury their children should be a nonpartisan issue. And for a lot of individuals from what we seen the viewpoint that 'I don't want me or my loved ones to be at risk of gun violence' crosses party lines, and then it's unpacking and undoing a lot of the perception around what that means.

Michelle Zuluaga : 23:31

Right. You don't want anybody to be shot by a gun or have access to a gun in an unsafe manner. You know, fact is a bullet doesn't ask for your party affiliation. A gun doesn't ask and say 'Excuse me, are you Republican or Democrat?' like 'can I shoot you? does this affect you?' No. It goes and it hits anybody. You know.

JJ Janflone : 23:53

It's never said 'you're a member of the Bull Moose Party, I'm sorry I'll have to decline my service for today.'

Michelle Zuluaga : 24:01

Exactly, it's not like The Matrix, you know, when like the bullets just like, stop, you know, and it's just like, whoa, and like everything is all of a sudden in slow motion? And it's like, oh, you know, I don't get affected by this. No, this impacts everybody. And again, I do think, you know, it is an issue that has been polarized so much because of people who say, you know what, it's about freedom and I want to do whatever I want to do. And this is about being you know, it's more of an anti-government attitude versus the safety of everybody as a whole. Right? I mean, gun violence isn't just, or you know what, it's not -- it's not just like people in the streets and like, you know, firing a gun at you. No, it's accidents too.

JJ Janflone : 24:49

Or, you know, it's people using a gun for the purpose of suicide. Unfortunately, it's -- it's unintentional shootings, you know, so a kid accidentally finds a gun, a gun get dropped. I talk about those all the time. But yeah, so like I've never handled, I guess the best way to describe it is, I've never handled a gun without ear protection, hearing protection, which I think sort of just says it all, right. Like, it's always been a very formalized, serious experience for me. Kelly, I'm not sure what yours has been, if any.

Kelly Sampson : 25:20

Um, yeah, for me, I grew up in Detroit in kind of the same caveats you issued about some of the stereotypes and stigmas around Latin American countries. I want to talk about Detroit. Detroit is a beautiful city, um, a lot of good things going on. But when I was growing up there and today, there, there is a problem with gun violence too. So I kind of was always aware of the fact that guns were around and they were dangerous, even little things that were as small as like, a lot of the places that we would go shopping would have the bulletproof glass, and I didn't necessarily realize that that was odd, I thought it was how it was. Or we'd spend New Year's Eve in the basement to avoid stray bullets. So, I was more exposed to the idea of guns hurting me, that they were, you know, a tool or just a part of my lifestyle. And other than I have, one of my uncle's is a police officer. And so I would see his service weapon when he would, you know, because he carried it but otherwise I didn't really interact with guns other than trying my hardest to avoid them and everything associated with them so that I didn't get hurt. So that was kind of my experience.

JJ Janflone : 26:34

Yeah, I think it's really important to point out that experience is different, not just with access to democracy, but also with people's experiences with gun violence. But that's why this should be a bipartisan effort, right? That it affects everyone and even though everyone's experience is different, we're all here, we shall be at the table.

Kelly Sampson : 26:54

So we've been talking to you in kind of two capacities. One is about, you know, Latinx voting as a whole. And then also, you're from a group that works specifically in Georgia. And so I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about some of the particular barriers or some of the particular issues that may be more Georgia-specific around voting, engagement, access, and things of that nature.

Michelle Zuluaga : 27:23

Absolutely. So this is actually where I am passionate about because I am a sociologist. So, I majored in political science, but I think societies and how they work, I just think it's fascinating. So, you know, what is the experience of the Latino voter in the state of Georgia, right? It varies, and it varies from rural, to urban or to city. I actually went on a trip to Tifton, Georgia. For those of y'all who do not live in the state of Georgia that's in South Georgia. It's about like, it's about like an hour, maybe 30 minutes away or so from from the border in Florida. So over in this area I was going and we were doing COVID financial aid, and we're helping families that were directly impacted by COVID. But, you know, in there, we also wanted to make sure that people were registered to vote, make sure they had all the information. And a big, big thing that I noticed was people saying, 'Oh my gosh, nobody has ever talked to me about this. Oh my gosh, there's like nobody out here doing this kind of work, like, where do I go? What website where do I register? Where's my polling place?' Like, they just had no idea and it's not because they don't want to. It's simply again, as I mentioned, just the information being there. And us being in the in the position where we are, which is working, hustling right not to say that there aren't, you know, rich Latinos. Of course there are you know, that don't necessarily have to think of like more survival mode and -- and making ends meet. But when you go to Tifton or more Southern, more rural areas, you are going to find more and more people that are just trying to make ends meet. And, you know, the fact is -- it's just us trying to put that information out there so that the experience of the Latino voter is a lot easier. Now I work for the Latino community Fund, Georgia. Our program on one of the biggest campaigns that we have is Latinos for Democracy and what Latinos for Democracy is, it's a coalition of nonprofit so us, we're leading it. We also have casinos with Buford Highway, which they are absolutely amazing. And then we also have clida, in Dalton. We also have an amazing, another group called Galileo. They are absolutely fascinating -- they're just amazing. They've been doing this work way longer than we have. But we know as the Latino community or as a nonprofit LCFGA, we know that nobody knows a community better than community leaders and people that actually live there. I live here in Atlanta, I went to Tifton for two weeks, and I, and I identified these needs, but, you know, when I really go over there, they're like, 'Who are you?' and like, 'I've never seen you is this information accurate,' right? So we do try to connect with churches or community leaders that already have that trust with the community, and really, and then give them funds and give them training and whatnot. So but, you know, we do try to -- but given that our campaign does have, you know, a couple of members and the members vary per year, you know, we're just really trying to tackle these issues that we are confronting, so, and then, of course, everything that I mentioned earlier, I mean, tradition, things that go from generation to generation, some people are documented, some people are not, and you know, how do these dynamics work? When I make a message, I have to be very careful because if I say 'register to vote, come here!' you know, sign up, what if I'm giving this information to a mixed household where half the people are documented, half the people are undocumented, that message goes to the same household and somebody who is undocumented gets registered. That's voter fraud very easily. So we have to make it very, very clear that only US citizens can vote. And and, you know, and and really be very inclusive with that message.

JJ Janflone : 31:21

Well, I think, I think that brings up sort of a good or sort of a general catch all question that might be a little bit unfair, but I, I'm wondering what you can show what you would want people to know, in general, sort of about access to democracy in the US. As well as to sort of circle back with, what I think you you so beautifully articulated at the beginning of this conversation, which is interactions with, you know, community interaction with basic, you know, just gun ownership, but also then experiences with gun violence.

Michelle Zuluaga : 31:53

So, you know, to approach gun violence, our relationship with gun violence as Latinos is a bit different. I didn't shoot a gun until I was 23. But, I was friends with a rich white kid, and they had access to a lot of safety measures, and a lot of people who could train me and I was, I happened to be their friend, right. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm having the American experience. And they were like, what!? Like you speak perfect English? Like you're 23? What do you mean? You know, but our relationship with guns and just our concept of guns is very, very different with the Latino community. Of course, you know, not of course. Now, you know, if you go today to Latin America, first of all, it's beautiful. It's safe and it's amazing. And I encourage everybody to go, especially to Colombia, it's awesome. People are so welcoming. Because like I'm here talking about our relationship with government and politics and guns and that, and I feel like I'm, like I'm giving Latino America a bad name. And no, we are amazing. We're safe. Please go visit us. Please. You know, go to tourist place and give us your money. But when it comes to when it comes to guns, our perception is very different. It's not about this patriotic American thing. It's not this tradition thing for us. Guns are tied to a lot of violence, are tied to a lot of drug cartels, are tied to maybe, you know, if you talk to somebody maybe from Argentina, they had a very militarized government at one point. It's just our relationship with guns is just so different in our approach, and how we see them is very, very different. So when we come to the United States, right, we that doesn't again, just like our approach to democracy, it just doesn't change because you cross a border, right? Or because you come here and you have a visa, right? That doesn't change. So it's just our relationship and our approach with guns is very different. And then I would also say just the connection between poverty and crime You know, people say, 'Oh, well, you know, just because, you know, the most safest communities are the ones with guns.' No, the most safe communities are the ones with money. The ones with resources, and the ones with health care, because they are not in a situation where they have to survive. And if you don't want, if I don't go in that store, and possibly, you know, steal a bag of rice, there's not going to be food on my table, you know, you are simply just more incentivized due to the conditions that you are in to commit a crime if you live in poverty. And not to say people in poverty are not lazy. People in poverty are not criminals. People in poverty are hard workers that work two to three jobs, but even then, it's just hard to make ends meet, especially with no access to health care, especially with rent and the prices that they are right now. Right. This is a whole systematic thing. And when you mix them that situation and bring very accessible guns to that situation, things can get a bit dangerous. And that is something that we have to have in mind. It bothers me, I guess, a little bit is when you know, people who are so adamant about having gun having guns in their house, they do not consider things simply because it's not happening to them. And that is my biggest issue. And they're not, they're just not considering a lot of different one million examples and variables that can happen in this universe. Again, I do not think that people that live in poverty and including myself, I lived in poverty for a very long time, especially being you know, from an undocumented family. It, poverty, is just a different experience. And there are situations in which you just, you're just stressed. I mean, you're just more stressed, more tense. You know, you don't necessary make the same decisions you would make if you had resources or access to resources, right. So I really do think that when it comes to gun violence and gun, and just poverty issues and crime in general, I think that if we would give people more resources and more access to health care, and more access to education, things would level out, especially when it comes to gun violence. So it's just a bigger picture. It's so complex.

Kelly Sampson : 36:27

Thanks for explaining that kind of, you know, the complexities and the differences and how that plays into guns too. I think that's really important, you know, even within the United States, and I can imagine in Georgia, which like most places, the United States has rural areas and cities and how, you know, even that kind of change, so I can imagine it's true if you're also coming from another country and immigrating and bringing those experiences as well.

Michelle Zuluaga : 36:52

Right. And also just wanting to be included, right. Wanting to be assimilated, you know, I know a lot of Latinos that are pro, you know, very pro gun, and I think it's not and no matter even if how it's affecting our communities, but it's also just wanting to assimilate, right? And like, 'No, no,' like, 'let's not, let's not have this conversation, we're just, we're just here.' You know, we're just here. We don't want to cause any trouble or bother anybody because we are trying to assimilate to American culture. Again, it just varies from generation to generation.

JJ Janflone : 37:30

With that generational divide too I'm wondering, is there a lack of clear info or rather, are people not sure what are credible messengers, especially in terms of new places to go on online? I'm wondering Michelle, if you could share where people could go to get appropriate information.

Michelle Zuluaga : 37:47

Of course. So, you know, something that I've actually realized, and this most of the states have this. First, be informed and have the all the information you have. Don't just react to a headline because again, just because somebody says something behind a podium doesn't mean it's law. Go to your state's 'myvoter' page. I've actually -- the Georgia has a my voter page, I know that Virginia has one and Colorado has one, look and see if your state has a 'myvoter' page. This is usually a page from the Secretary of State. It's set up for the by the Secretary of State, and you can just look up your voter information. It tells you your polling place, what dates you can vote, if your voter registration is active. Make sure your voter registration is active. Take the time from your day or your week, if you can, just to look up this information, make sure you're informed and let's not contribute to the chaos. Let's you know, have the information that's given to us from our local officials and also the information that is accessible to anybody and then also you know, be friend -- you know be nice to your neighbor. You know, different people are coming from different parts of the world. Vote. Make sure you have other people in mind in your community when you do that, and know that not everybody has the same experience, not everybody has the same approach to things. And that is okay.

JJ Janflone : 39:18

Yeah, I didn't think that we'd come to a point where a podcast put out by a nonprofit would actually have to like have the occasional tagline of 'Just don't be a dick.'

Michelle Zuluaga : 39:27

Yeah, but...

JJ Janflone : 39:28

Yet, and yet, this is where we are.

Michelle Zuluaga : 39:30

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's the thing is even even within within our communities, that's so true. Like even within our communities, I mean, there are Latinos who don't necessarily vote for the interest of others, right. They vote for the interest themselves. But yeah, that's so true. Thank you for that. That's 100% what I would like to say, but you know.

JJ Janflone : 39:52

Yeah, no. It's also to, this is something that I think, and we've talked about this already on this podcast, but sort of struggling with you know, everyone should be for gun violence prevention. Right?

Michelle Zuluaga : 40:03

Yeah, it's really nice. But, uh, but yeah, I think I think it's fascinating is to really discuss this dynamic and what our experiences as individuals, right, and how our perspective is with democracy and gun violence, and what we where we come from, and just how we think differently and how our approaches have been, you know, and this, this isn't just your story, or my story, or, or JJ story or Kelly's story, I mean, and not to generalize too much, either. But, you know, I am not the only person who has had difficulty having access to information. I have not had, I've not been the only person who has dealt with gun violence in the way that I have and, or have confronted it in the way that I have and have had that same concern. So it's just very nice. It's been amazing to be on the show and understand that perspective.

Kelly Sampson : 40:56

It's been amazing to have you on the show. Yeah.

JJ Janflone : 40:59

Michelle, I'm wondering if people are listening to this like I am, and are like, 'Oh my gosh, I've got to go out and do something. I've got to do something right now,' what are some recommendations that you might have?

Michelle Zuluaga : 41:10

For sure! Well, you know, first and foremost, I would love for everybody to visit our website, which is Latinofordemocracy.net. That is a more Georgia centered website. But of course, this information um, you know, when it comes to election day, there is a national election day. So, but you know, it is very Georgia centered, but in case you wanted to see what we're about, we have a lot of videos on there and a lot of information. Or, you know, if you want to get to know how our election cycle works a little bit more, you can visit our website. And then secondly, I would also, you know, like to mention how all of our perspectives are very different, and it's just beautiful how we live in a country that is so complex, and and it's okay for measures to not always be a one-size fits all, righ. Not always be red or blue, or R or D. But I, I do want you guys to know that, you know, we're working hard here in the Latino community trying to get Latinx voters out. I hope that everybody in the US, not only Latinx, but everybody to go out and vote if you can. Make sure to check your voter registration and time. Go ahead and submit your absentee ballot application so that you will receive your absentee ballot and just stay safe wear a mask and to make sure you go out and vote November 3rd.

JJ Janflone : 42:42

Well, and thank you again, Michelle, for all the fantastic work that you and your organization have been doing and for for coming on.

Michelle Zuluaga : 42:48

Thank you so much, JJ and Kelly. I really appreciate, I really appreciate it. I hope this isn't the last time that I come and we can have other conversations.

JJ Janflone : 42:56

We would love to have you back.

Michelle Zuluaga : 43:00

Thank you so much.

JJ Janflone : 43:04

Kelly for this week's "unbelievable but" are you ready to see an image?

Kelly Sampson : 43:08

You know, given past material? I don't know if I'm ready, but -- but I will.

JJ Janflone : 43:14

Well, I have sent the image to you. Now I know that this isn't a visual medium, but could you maybe describe it to our listeners?

Kelly Sampson : 43:21

Oh, ah, okay. Well, we have a man in a, what appears to be a gun store. In the background we have a lovely vignette of rifles.

JJ Janflone : 43:33

Mm hmm.

Kelly Sampson : 43:34

All stacked up and ready for purchase. And then in the foreground that, I will say whoever photographed this seemed to use the rule of thirds. So, like, good job on that but in the foreground there is a man and then he has a mask. Good job on the mask. But in the mask, there is also a gun right by his face and neck which I believe are important for staying alive.

JJ Janflone : 44:01

Yes, those -- those things are sort of essential for living.

Kelly Sampson : 44:04

Okay, I thought so!

JJ Janflone : 44:05

So this is a one of the latest terrifying trends in gun extremist culture, which is a facemask with a specific pocket or holster for your handgun. Now, a lot of people who do open carry they prefer like a safer option like a holster, a hip holster or an ankle strap. I've also even seen ones that are more back focused, you know, think of it almost as like a, like a backwards fanny pack. Mm hmm. All of which are sold by like reputable dealers and you know, obviously are safe. But this new fashion statement for extreme gun lovers is a pocket for your gun on the front of your face mask. And I would like to point out that while these maps are real, many particularly on the internet have pointed out that these masks were already created, though only in satire. The Trevor Noah daily show in June did a whole piece about this.

Kelly Sampson : 44:58

First of all, it doesn't seem very comfortable, fashion aside. But I just feel like the weight is unbalanced. But then secondly, again, your face and your neck are extremely important for, you know, you existing, so it just seems generally unwise, and then also and I'm staring at the picture still, because it also, like it just says so much about the country that you would have to go about with your gun just like, on your face.

JJ Janflone : 45:33

For this week's news wrap up we'll begin with the tragic shooting in Bloomington, Minnesota. On Sunday night, a neighbor began firing on the Saulter family from just 10 feet away as they loaded a U-haul outside of their home. Afterwards Makayla, 12, who was holding her 18-month-old niece at the time was found on the ground cradling the unharmed baby in her arms. Unfortunately, Makayla had been shot in the head. "She's a hero" Makayla's aunt, the reverend Marcia Westbrook said, "she was going to protect the baby no matter what, she's a protector." Makayla is currently in critical condition at Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis. The baby's mother Canisha, 29, who was also shot three times in her lower body is listed in stable condition. Smith said that Canisha, a single parent to Winter, will need to learn how to walk again. While the shooter is now in police custody, many questions remain unanswered. "What happened is senseless -- to target innocent people in their front yard is pure evil," Bloomington Police Deputy Chief Mark Hadley said. Sadly, a new study shows that young people are increasingly impacted by gun violence with hundreds of shootings in the US last year occurring within a mile of a school or place where children frequently visit. In 2019, 3,774 children ages eight and younger experienced gun violence, with 985 killed, and 2789 injured; according to data from the Gun Violence Archive, which tracks shootings across the US via news sources. Those included 418 mass shootings across 40 states, the highest number since the Gun Violence Archive began reporting back in 2014. Notably, the archive defines a mass shooting as any incident were four or more people are killed or injured by a firearm. Of mass shootings in 2019, 9.6% happened at a school or location of interest for a child, like athletic fields, playgrounds, parks, recreation centers, andzoos. A recent study done by Children's Hospital in Philadelphia revealed that one-in-five mass shootings occurred at, or within, a block from such a location. More and more firearms are the second leading cause of trauma-related death of children in the US. To quote Gabby Giffords. "It's unacceptable that the number of deaths from shooting keeps escalating, while Washington, D.C. refuses to even debate policies, we know what helps save lives." You know what we can all agree on? The importance of sharing our opinion. Listeners can now get in touch with us here at Red, Blue and Brady via phone or text message. Simply call or text us at (480) 744-3452 with your thoughts, questions, concerns, ideas, whatever. And you know what else could be fun? Listening to an ad. With more than 10 years of experience NordVPN is a leading VPN provider. NordVPN gives you military-grade protection online, and you can access all your favorite sites without restriction. They never log your activity when using their servers, and you can always trust your privacy to them. As someone who, well, at least pre-COVID travels quite a bit to countries or places with internet restrictions. I love NordVPN. Right now, listeners have an opportunity to support the show and get 70% off on a two-year plan by clicking the link in the description of our episode. Thanks for listening. As always, Brady's life saving work in Congress, the courts and communities across the country is made possible thanks to you. For more information on Brady or how to get involved in the fight against gun violence. Please 'like' and subscribe to the podcast, get in touch with us a Bradyunited.org or on social @BradyBuzz. Be brave and remember, take action, not sides.