Non-Stop Rock Talk welcomes friend and respected bass player, producer & songwriter Bruno Ravel to talk and joke about all things pertaining to The Defiants, Canadian band Saints & Sinners and Foreigner singer Kelly Hanson. Bruno even shows off his french skills. Sit back and prepare yourself for this candid talk between two old friends.
me. You understand? You wanna put me away for a week now? Non non stop. Rock rock talk with tight with
Tyson. Right? Right. Morning, Bruno. Welcome to nonstop rock talk. It's really great to have you on the show, bones. You amaze armies on Canada. Uh uh. Yeah. How's it going? Good, man. Are you, like, fresh? Just wait. That that was no one's ever done French on the show before you. The theme for the for the three French rod fans there are out there. That's exactly you know what? Excellent. It's funny that you mention that as we start, I can go, like on my on my host. I can go on, um, and see where everybody's been listening to. The podcast? Yeah, around the world. So, like, I was really surprised his people in there was like people instead of America, Europe. And it tells you exactly how many, um, people in those in those parts of the world actually listened to it, which was kind of Yeah, that's good. That's kind of cool. It's like technology's just beyond me. So small world. Yeah. Yes, so many ways. Um, it was funny. I, uh the last time we spoke, we were We were talking about saints and sinners. Yeah, we always love. And ironically enough, a buddy of mine plays with their drummer, The original drama or the drummer. The determinant with that. I know. I think his name John. God, I can't remember his last name. Yeah, so he was. So anyways, Hee hee. So my buddy says, I'll just reach out to maybe get him on your park. That's didn't you guys can talk about it. Saints and Centers, which I was ironic. He lives here where in the same part of town, like in the same city is made, which I thought was kind of funny and what is pretty cool? Yeah, and he's doing a He's a drummer and a journey tribute, man. He's probably making full loads of money. So I got to get in one of those beds. Yeah, exactly. I know. Okay. No kidding. I was talking thio Brandon Cook from Black and Blue, and he does a g n r tribute knees. Like he was telling me, like there was some gigs in Nick 15 grand. I was like What? Yeah, Yeah, exactly. So yeah, but all that seems to think saints and sinners thing. Um, I wanted to talk about We belong. I locked myself in it, That song just just filling our listeners at the M three grand on you mentioned something about it, that song to me. And I said, Hold on, I have it on my phone, I think Look at me and laughed and said, Of course you do. So what was the history in terms of saints and sinners to do with danger? Danger? You guys were in the same studio. Are I know the guy that Lenny PC that got it signed us to abba crackers? A When he when he left Abby Records, he started another label, and he also signed out the Nova who worked with thanks and centers, right? I think you're cool Road or was producing some of this stuff, right? Right. And s o Lay called us off and asked us if we had any songs because they were looking for song. So we ah, we, um the A we Did we have the Minister song's laying around? Yes. Begin. Steve wanted to go up Canada Montreal to write with the guitar player. You got it made, um, So we did. We went out for a weekend and tried to right with him, and we ended up hanging out with Van. So we went for being and you know, when to cut with strip clubs or whatever. It was a fun week. We didn't write any songs, but that's how we know those guys. That's cool. That's a quote. Well, it's, uh yeah, okay. He's only I'll put it on. I have it on my phone as soon as I just matching so occasionally I put it on that we belong is a good to know. Yeah, that zone that me and Rob always bonded over Problem always likes kind of obscure ao archive stuff. Some reason, I think early on, when I, uh, we were hanging out me and Rob like he mentioned that out. That kind of like a big moment for us. That song way along anyway. Yeah, that's cool. So let's go into the latest defined Salome less pronounced properly. How is, uh pronounced? It's pronounced. So coo show. So who show you just the way the weights that threatens Ozio, Right? So coo show cool. And what's the meaning behind that It means that just means ah, continuance of the next chapter chapter to that kind of thing. Many meanings for the word. But that's, um you know, when, uh when I started thinking about the all work, you know, and title For the record, I didn't wantto make title of record any song styles, right? I thought we could put more thought into with that and then, you know, stumped And I, uh, I thought about what about chapter two. And I was thinking about that Roman numeral two, Chapter two. But then I was going to be cooler to stay in a different language. And I always love Japanese culture. So I kind of did some research as some friends in Japan and Zo Ku Show was one of the words that kind of sounded cool to me. Like genetically. Yeah, that is not only the first word you would use in the Japanese language to say that sequel or next chapter, but it was the one that sounded cool is to me. And it was, you know, not improper. It's kind of slang, so that's why we went with it. That's cool. That's the cool, because when I saw it when I saw the album coming. What the hell does that mean? You see that? And it also sparked a Mary out of questions from people that have a podcast and Web site. So there you go. That's right. Exactly. So it was like a conversation piece and yeah, yeah, people talking about you. Well, exactly. And that's good, because it pushes the envelope a little bit. Thio. Yeah, it's not. You know, like you said, you didn't want to use this long title go with something different in school. Yeah. So let's I mean, I want to ask about that cover. Um, So the three guys on the cover, he's not supposed to signify you guys, Or maybe maybe not kind of this kind of left and be vague. You know, I wanted I wanted that to be the same on the first album. Uh, I didn't want us to be on the cover, and I kind of left Paul to handle that because I was busy doing other stuff are doing, you know, you know, recording all of that. And so he kind of mocked up that covered with our pictures on it, and it's really not my favorite. I kind of my whole thing was tohave the three guys. Three amigos have them wait in the background. That kind of have to be serious and not know they are. He's through with these three guys. That was my whole life. I've for the defiance. Like we're you know, obviously there's four of us because we don't have a permanent drummer, But, um uh uh you know, I thought on the album cover that like, he's free, like, nondescript, kind of mysterious dudes That could be us. But they're not, you know? So that's now that I'm losing control of the the second album cover. I stressed us. Do not do not put our faces on these guys. If you want, you could match the hair color, but that's about it. So So yes. Oh, so that's what I kind of wanted to portray this three mysterious dudes. And, uh, you know, little Adam makeover came together pretty quickly, and I had some, you know, some rapper. I referenced a lot of, uh, kind of John appease animated kind of find guys that you know what we wanted to do in the cover. It's a very good cover. I mean, yeah, I did. I did it. It's actually my favorite album. Cover that. So? Yeah, that's funny. I mean, you mention that because the first defines album is kind of the first album where you've actually been on the cover because all the danger danger stuff you've you know, you guys were never on the cover. Exact Amado. Yeah. Now, you know why I wasn't in charge of that artwork Because they never wanted to be on the cover of any of my record. I have anything, Put a picture of land show, be on the front and be that we'd sell. Uh, but not us. So, uh, yeah, I I'm not a big fan of, you know, guys on the round, but yeah, I kind of agree with that. I mean, I love since they handle one or something, you know? Yeah, that's sure. And that that is a cool car, so yeah. Yeah, so I mean, that's That's good. This is funny, though, because, I mean, for me as of it, I would rather see a picture on the cover. You know, like something visual. Something to look at while you're looking at it. And if if the record company wants to put on page three of the band on the back. But don't put it on the cover kind of thing, right? Yes, I agree. So I'd like to talk a few songs on the album. 1st 1 of course, is love. Love is the killer, huh? Absolutely. To me, that's like the best opening truck. I love a little guitar, a piece of the beginning. And then it goes in and courtesy of Rob Martell, the Wizard of the Acts. Bored? Yeah, yeah. Yes. And I actually was messing. I was playing guitar one day and I was like, You know what? I want to figure that it and that that intro was like, it was a little It was a little bit of a challenge is really But But that's raw because he's such a great guitar player, right? It was funny because when I was trying to think of the well, you know what to do for the intro for the song. Um, I always wanted to do a an intro. Allah, The beginning of Rock bottom kiss. Yeah, you know, it s so that's kind of what I said I said, I told Robin, Go, Listen, you're the course change. I said, Come up with something that's kind of in the vein of rock bottom but, you know, do put your spin on it and and he you know, he came up with that intro and then he he called me to Societal. If you're gonna like the city played from and I was like, That's perfect, That's great. Yeah, exactly what I wanted is very cool part the Jackal. And it fits the court changes in that song or kind of, Ah, they're very cool as well, like in the very neoclassical. Yeah, not not kind of your normal ale are rock. Yeah, that's kind of it's kind of something that I I strive for when writing is not to write the same four chords that everybody else right fry in, Try and do it a little bit different. But stay in the lane. You know, it's it's It's not easy. It's weird because it's just, um, I don't even know how to put it. It's like the chorus and the corns kind are there, but it's in a different it's It's really, really interesting song to the play. Yeah. Yeah, that was as that's actually funny, because when you know, usually wouldn't pull on my right. I, uh you know, it depends on what's on. Like this particular song. Um, I had the course and I had the old music written and I had the chorus, right, Right, right. And it was like I was trying Thio. I knew that Paul was gonna have a problem with this one. Because it's not It's not, You know, the typical atypical hor melodic rocks on. So it was something that I almost had the force on, you know? And I kept I kept pushing it going. Listen, this is a good track, you know? Just taking time, you know, don't just throw It could be a lot of times when I throw him a curve. Like many other songs that I threw out, that we're kind of like a curve curveball, and he and he kind of just would not even go near. If you feel like I don't like that one and I like a man, it's a good one. Come on. But so you know, I have to add up to what is two of us, right? so it's like a but this one. This one was one that he kind of was able to, you know, you know, around the Senate, right? A little And were able to finish it. So Yeah. Good track. How does he feel about it? No, no, he loves it now. Yeah, he was the one that wanted to put it first on the record. Uh, yeah. I mean, it's killer no pun intended or it's a killer. Try. Thanks. Thanks. Um, well, moving on to standing on the edge. Uh, I think musically that won't push the envelope a little bit to want to hear the Andrew. I think of stopping westwards. Ah, what do I have to do back in the nineties? I love that that song Lord, I don't even know who that is. Like a one hit wonder. It was. They were kind of like a with a Canadian. Ah, I'm not sure to be honest about stabbing westward. All right, I gotta go check that now. Yeah, they were kind of like a heavier, like passion mode, but heavy. Oh, wow. Cool. Elected post boat. Yeah, they were kind of was kind of They had a weird vibe. Um, anyways, so back. I mean, back in the nice. I love that song. We're hearing that intro kind of like that kind of reminds me of that. That's so cool. I mean, you know, again totally. Just by accident. I was searching for keyboard sounds for something, and I came across the sound of the keyboard beginning of that, and I kind of quickly played that intro. And I said, This is cool. I gotta use this for something. And so I just had it and then threw in a little guitar things. And that was it, right? You know, it's just having a word for that. A little bit of droning, you know, one court thing. Very cool. Yeah, is very cool it from. And that's where I think on the whole album. On a bunch of the songs, he kind of pushed the out enveloping, using intros, that air really interesting, because sometimes Bansal put in an injury on it. Why is that there? That makes no sense. But the interests that are on this cell phone, they, they they mess in really nicely. Oh, thanks. Thanks. Way. Always wanted Creative Moon, depending on the song. You know, if we can't really come up with an interesting, uh, front to the song, like getting to the song that I always I always like little intros to kind of set the mood. So, uh, again, with these records that were making now there, you know there's no rules, which is like the beauty of it. There's also no money, which is not beautiful, but but, uh, the beauty of it is it. It's just strictly are you know, we do it just whatever we want. We're not trying to get on the radio. We're not trying to, you know, please anybody but ourselves and maybe put a couple of smiles on fansfaces. That's about it. So it's cool. Yeah, that's funny. You mention that because I spoke to David Reese last weekend and he had a new album coming out. There was a song on it where the chorus was very melodic and it was catchy, but he put heavy guitar underneath it like it was right in your face. And I said to him, I said, You know what? Back in the day, that song, the rocker company probably wouldn't have accepted it, But now that you're doing it on your own, you're able to to push the envelope a little bit and give give people something different, right? Yeah, sure, that's cool. And I think that's awesome. I think it I I just think, Yeah, there's no money, which sucks but at the same time, your creativity, You can put that a little bit more now. Yeah, yeah, I actually enjoy making these records. You know, the therapeutic as well as you know, keeps keeps my my musical mind sharp, and that's a lot of fun. Way. Have a blast. That's that's fantastic. Now, of course, Hollywood and has like, isn't Hollywood in the headlights. Hollywood in Hollywood, in headlight. Yeah, Hollywood Dane has. Sorry. Um, is that a Kalevala? The injury of that song? I don't know. It's pretty damn loud. You can't You can't tell how love That's little every time. That's a long time ago. Maybe I should lower that cow bell. Zach's got a different tone. No, that's what threw me off. It's like, Oh, yeah, it is a cow bell, all right. Oh, man. And it's funny because Paul Lane, there seems to be like this theme where he's always talking about the past and things from the office. Yeah, you could tell which songs he Ryan said. Which songs I write just from the lyrical content he's He's always writing about the girl that got away and you know he doesn't want any girl to leave him and ask them I gotta have an issue with that Like when you were young, like it's some girl Break your heart lead. It's like No, because I always thought of that, too. I always think, like, Is he? Is he upset about someone leaving? But I guess he's No, no, no. But it's incidents simply a recurring theme in his in his thought and that is right, which is it always works, right? So, uh, where's May I try? I come from a totally different place just on the angry guy. Had love gone wrong? Hence the song Sick little twisted mind. Yeah. Hey, boy. Oh, that is good. But it's a good manager. So, you know, like Yang Gang, you know, it's cool. Yeah, I know, I think, and I think I mean my whole body who listens. He always talks about those songs that he loves. All the lyrics like he's all he'll He'll send me a tax to and he'll go. This is the best lyric ever. And he saw, That's great. Oh, yeah, yeah, it is. And he's like he's so passionate about all of the lyrics on that album where I love the lyrics Don't get me Wrong but but I I kind of like, just go right into song more than just reading all lyrics, right? Yeah, I'm not. I mean, I like, you know, lyrical message and stuff, but for me, it's like how it sounds. You know, it could be in Chinese as long as it sounds good. Yeah, and I didn't say I mean, if it if it catches me and it's sonically like I like, I like melodic. I like heavy, but it's got exactly yeah, got out of a melody some of you could saying, Even if it's a Chinese, that's right. Because if you go to Japan, they don't speak English and they're going to sing along to a melody. That's great. And they love it. So, yeah, it is not amazing, huh? It is amazing. I mean, because of Japanese fan base for so many bands, is so big over there, and they don't even know what you're singing. Yeah. No, I mean, you know, they take the time to translate up. They get us, appreciate it, even Maur. But you're right. Initially, they just hear a melody and someone speak English, and they make out a few words. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, and I don't think that really happens. That wouldn't happen in North America. Like, for instance, Remember when, um you get a French artist here and you heard you'd never hear it on the radio because people couldn't They wouldn't listen to it. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's happening now with the what is that? The BTS. The Korean kids huge real in this city and say, Yeah, you know, you never heard of E. T s? No. It's like a Korean boy band. Right on. They did, like, massive feel, like, bigger than you know, whatever. They're bigger than ah, in sync for the Backstreet Boys. How? And they sing 90% of the lyrics in Korean. Wow. Yes. Praise. That is crazy. I didn't I don't know. I guess I'm kind of your cave man. I am radio. I don't I don't either. But I mean, if you turn on your television that you'll see him there. There? Yeah. I'm gonna I wonder if my kids in a little bit, I'm sure. Of course they can't be like, Yeah, those guys suck E. I don't know my son. My son's like into, like, into Drake. And yeah, yeah, my all that stuff. What are you doing? Like you're supposed to be a rock or your dad's a rocker. You gotta look at all the music you have here to listen to. I don't like that. It sucks. I don't like rock. Yeah, it's ah, trying to get your kid to, like, rock music. Now pull water, man. Man, it's so it's so Frost is disappointing. Yeah, it is. It's because, Well, I took him down to Memphis Christmastime, and we wanted to see Tora, Tora and David Johnson, and he dug it and they were cool to him, and he got to meet them all. And they were really nice. Don't gave him a bunch of guitar picks, and I was like, Okay, this is a stop in the right direction, and this is good. Oh, no, E yeah, Yes, it is. They got back home, move back around their friends. It was a little over. Yeah, that was it. It was like, Did you like it? Oh, yeah, it was good, but I don't like rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're getting to the all nighter, I think. I think that's one of my favorite tracks. I mean, it kind of switched. They, Scott, that really heavy vibe kind of link. Sick little twist. And I mine, But it doesn't sound like that song is just a heavy two totally different songs. Yeah, I think what makes his songs what scene is standing is the fact that music fits the lyrics perfectly. Um, yeah, that was, uh that was one that that I didn't have before. He loved that. You know, you're on the first record. We were trying to do a song and at shuffle, that shuffle thing, you know, kind of like, uh, whatever the you know, rock n roll. It's only played the hot. Yeah, like Gary Glitter. Gary Glitter. Exactly. So he pulled always wanted to do a song in that vein, but I never wanted to, you know, go all the way there. So This was kind of like, you know, when I came up with the, you know, that kind of the initial of bones for all nighter. Immediately when I was playing, I was like, Old Paul is gonna love this. And I knew admitted I said that, but cores and and, you know, just kind of vibe of the song. He immediately like, Yeah, he wrote the rest of the lyrics in, like, five seconds was time. Wow. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool Part about that, is that, You know, we just kind of threw the kitchen sink, and then we went full on Doctor Jin. You know, crazy vocals. Just little tricks here in the little things that, you know, we just went for it on that so well, like, yeah, let's just throw it all in on this left. Yeah, it's the vibe. I remember when I first got the album and I was in port to go and I went out like 5 a.m. One morning for a run on the streets because there's no one around. And that song just wrote like, it is an adrenaline rush. Yeah. Song definitely make you want to run. Uh, and now getting to to see West completely on the album. That's yeah, that's the one difference that I find between the first and second album is there's something about Leslie's drumming to me that, um, I don't know what it is. He's got a certain flair and, you know, he's always like on a song like Tip of my Tongue. He's got that little thing he does, you know, like the on the snare. And he's just got kind of a flare. And I think I think to me that's maybe one of the things that I noticed different from the first doll. Okay? I mean, uh, I mean, both records. The drumming was the kind of I would say most of it was me. Meaning, like my direction. Yeah. Okay, so yes, Steve played and he, you know, maybe added some stuff here and there, but he was definitely given a lot of direction. And it was actually a lot of stuff on his record that he normally wouldn't play, that I needed that. I made him play. So had a typical seed was fashioned. So that's really what you want me to do. All right, I know what I would have done, but okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the straight four on the floor kind of storms are, You know, we're I obviously very simple, but songs like love is the killer and all nighter. And where there's maybe a little bit stuff that he wouldn't normally play, It wasn't in his wheelhouse. You know, I had to just kind of stress the point a little, but he did a great job, you know? It was a lot of fun recording. Drop it. Now there's just something. I mean, I don't know what it is about is storming. I think there's some kind of, like, edible. What's that simple? Don't overcomplicate. Thanks. Yeah, Yeah, I think it's how we hit. So, like, I was snare hits or Oh, I don't know what it is is just so cool. Yeah, and I've always liked that about his drumming because me and my buddy Oh, we we would talk about his drumming. Or like, I love that part. And it's not even see Wood. Steele says big. Thank you. Oh, yes. Perfect. I mean, the next time I see him, well, I'll have to make sure I tell them in? Yeah, if if I can keep him close to me for two seconds. But if he's not off running away somewhere, so, yeah, he's always got he's got the wandering eye. Oh, he does. He's always he's like, Hey, where'd you go? Where the hell did he go? Huh? Uh, so the last track, which is drink up. Um, it was kind of different compared to the rest of the album it's got, but the vibe is so cool. And, um, it kind of occasionally you guys talk about drinking like drunken, wasted off guilder sleeves. Um, was that a pole? Erica's? Well, that one was really I know Drink up was the course. I wrote the course for that, and, uh, I wanted to have a drinking, so I didn't necessarily want to be in that vein. Like, I almost wanted to be like a fine Irish folk song, you know, because I always like I always remember growing on when I would go see bar bands. They would always they would always be some sort of drinking, so everybody would raise a glass and go, Hey, hey. And you know, and have a you know, toast each other, you know? So I kind of want I told Paul. I said I want to write a drinking song that we could, you know, if we ever do play a gig waiting to show with, you know, like, kind of a fun drinking song. And so my initial idea for that song was again more of, like, an Irish folk song, and then pull wasn't feeling it. And so they turned into, you know, uh, for lack of a better term Bryan Adams meets Kiss or something. Get out of that song. So, yeah, you know, dividing it. So, um uh, uh, being stranger danger, which is pretty much what danger? Dangerous, Right, Adam? Speech. Kiss. Price. So So, Yeah. So if they turned into just a straight ahead rock song, literally the way wrote about the half hour, we just gotta bang out. Went out was fine. We were like, Yeah, that's it. Cool. Cool to know where you were. Kind of thinking like whiskey in the jar type of thing. Initial? No, not necessarily. Lyric. Wise again. It was just kind of more like the like, You know, if you were in a bar and Ireland or in England. And you had a pint. You guys world singing, you know, folk songs. That's kind of a vibe. Initially that I wanted for Right on. Um, and so again, not, You know, Now, you know, have my friends problems with alcohol in this that you got. You got to be careful when you started talking about drinking and, you know, glorifying it. But at same time, maybe that's what rock is. It's like a rebellious, you know? So it's like, you know, you don't have to be PC when you're writing a rock and roll's on. So, uh uh, so yeah. So, again, lyrically, it was It was like in a pub in England or in Ireland. And then and then we just brought it back into the hole. Ale are right thing with music, so yeah. Yeah, and I've been a bit. I mean, I went to Ireland almost two years ago. It was insane. So yeah, it's Yeah, it's people just drink the whole installed. If we were in this bar on a Sunday afternoon, like from Fleet Street and this place was packed and everybody's happy and they're watching their soccer match on it. They're just going crazy. It was It was. So I was. We played in Belfast when they had that I forget what it was like a big horse race, right? It's like that. They have every year, some. It's like, you know, Kentucky Derby a violent or whatever. Yeah. And so we have. You know, I was exhausted, and I remember my buddies over there. They were like, Oh, whoa. Well, you got to come down to the pub and have a proper place, you know? I don't like I'm like, Okay, well, maybe after the show to go. No, you got to come now. You know what I'm like, what? And I may like it, you know, three o'clock in the afternoon, pounded Guinness, you know, which is delicious, by the way, especially in Ireland. And, uh, these people are going bananas in a place watching the sports racing. I don't like what is This is so cool, man. So different. Like, it's like you're in a different world, but yeah, it's so cool. Yeah. Can I? Hopefully I'll get back there. We didn't go to Belfast, so unfortunately, um, where you were Limerick. What's that? What were you? We were in, um, Dublin. Hold up. Dobler. Dublin. Yes, way did. We were, like on a bus tour. So cool. All right. We did the holes. The whole set. So we spend a couple days in and does ONIY, Sony Records Classics Presents The Best of Ireland. Uh oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah. So I mean, so it was good. Uh, I didn't realize the premise of that song. That that's what your vision wasn't. That's kind of cool. Yeah. In the beginning, it was just gonna be, like, almost like, uh, getting the vibe again. This is a five thing like, you know how like, Cheap Trick would sing. Hello. There are Venus saying, you know, the beginning of the end of the shows. So it was kind of like that kind of thing. Like, I just wanted to be like, no nonsense three chord right song, you know? And how cool. Lyric about drinking. And that's kind of and then it just turned into what it is on record school. No. Now, moving to in You had mentioned this to me, but I'm sure a lot of people don't know less that when you went Paul laying, um, Friday for danger. Danger When? Before you got him in the band That someone else tried it as well. Yeah. Kelly Hansen from Hurricane and Foreigner. Yeah, that is not a super cool. Did you go ahead? Oh, so did he. So he came down and did the songs with you? A bunch of songs with you guys? You know, what we did was - we didn't really have, like, a, like, a live kind of, you know, playing with the band kind of thing. What we did was we sent out our - we sent out some songs from 'Cockroach' without the vocals on them and obviously gave them the songs with the vocals as well and said, "You know, go go on to your you know, whatever it is, you know, grab a microphone and just sing to the songs. Let's hear how you sound on these songs!" And so he sent us - Kelly, uh, I forget how I was introduced to him, but I met him like, obviously back in the day, when Hurricane was on tour, I think our paths crossed a few times, but so we just you know, he was not in Hurricane, and I called him and told him that we were looking for vocalist. and blah blah of line Send the tape. And then he said back, I believe it was tip of my tongue and one of the song that he sang on. And I don't ask me what tapes are because I can't find him, but I have them somewhere on eso He sang on that. And of course I know Kelly is, and I know you could perform and you know So for us, it was more about the divide, Like messing with our personalities. You know, if he was gonna be ableto hang with us because we know that we knew that that Kelly was, you know, the cool dude, whatever it can sing. Whatever had the right look and everything and with full, we didn't really know that much. And, um um, so bold of them, we flew into New York and basically just hung out with them. We didn't really We didn't rehearse or anything with any of them. Just kind of hung out. And so, uh, I don't know how we we decided on Paul. I think it was because, um, I think I was Maur leaning towards Kelly Hansen. Um, But, um, the reason why we didn't pick Kelly was because he was a little bit more focused on business. Like initially, he wasn't really focused on kind of along with us. He was more just straight to the point of going Okay, what's going to be the deal? You know, what's the deal here? And so, uh, that kind of soured. It's a little bit on it at full was just hanging out. Pull is just a great guy, you know? So it was Ah, a whole different. Viable. We're gonna hang out with Paul. And so that's why we went. We chose Paul. That's cool story. Yeah. Yeah. I don't Have you spoken without before, Has it was I ever spoken of the Kelly Hansen had tried it? You mean what, like in an interview? So yeah, I just I don't know, whatever asked, huh? There's no one ever asked. That's interesting. Yeah, because you know, you know, now I run into Kelly Hansen. He doesn't wantto for it or no, You don't want to talk about hey, Kelly your medical way. D'oh! Who You No, no, no, no. I remember. Will give you the job. Yeah, I said you should be thanking us. No kidding was he Was Hurricane done by that point? Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because that, um, that lost album was a little bit different. I think that it's side writers come in And what not news. That's a decent home. But it kind of took when robbers are still a lot. That kind of kind of change. I don't I don't really know much about hurricane other than you know that him and get Doug. Was it in advance to Rights Holder? Yeah. He replaced Robert's Our zone. Yeah, right. When I think when dog was in the band and they were onto will be mighty done some shows with them Not cool. Yeah. Yeah, because, I mean, that was a weird time to What was that? That was like, but 1990 91. Something like, Yeah, that was what it was. A little bit. Yeah, that's when it was over when it all went downhill from there. Yeah. Anyways, you know what? I I just I want to talk mostly about the album today. And I had that question about Kelly, but pretty much school. That is all I've got. Cool. And I appreciate you coming on this old room. Hey, anytime, man. Uh, we need guys like you. You keep this this boat afloat, so I appreciate it. And, uh, whatever. Let's do it again soon. Okay? Man, Thank you so much. All right, buddy. Um, no. Let me know when it goes online. I love both of blanks stuff. Okay, Thanks. Appreciate. All right. Okay, okay,