Testing Temi

Hi=ello

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:04

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Channel. Today I'm interviewing Ross from Smells Like Humans. It's a weekly podcast that brings a humorous perspective to the quirky and funny things of human psychology and behavior. Ross has a background as a comedian, storyteller, but his day job is as a consultant. And so when pandemic shut everything down, he started the podcast to have a creative outlet for all of his stories and his humor. We talked about podcasting during Covid , how his grown , his podcast with Overcast and Buzzsprout ads, decision to not monetize right off the bat, and how he is actually running and editing his show. Really enjoyed this episode with Ross , uh, and I hope you do as well. Ross, thank you so much for joining me on Buzzsprout conversations.

Speaker 2 0:51

It's my pleasure.

Speaker 1 0:52

So I've just given you a bit of an intro, but would you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Speaker 2 0:58

Yeah, so , um, for many years I've been , uh, I've led a double life as a performer , uh, stage performer, comedian, improviser, actor. And , uh, also my day job , uh, has been , uh, in the consulting business. So I've been giving people advice for money, which is how I pay the bills, <laugh> , and I'm a bit of a recur , I would guess , uh, would be a good name for me. I like to tell stories. I had some unusual experiences in my life that I like to share with people. So I always try to find a way to get to a microphone or a camera or to an open stage or any place where I can attract attention. That's sort of been my mo since I was a little kid.

Speaker 1 1:45

What was it that, I mean, I guess I kind of see the connection, but what was it that drew you to podcasting?

Speaker 2 1:50

Uh, the , well , there was a couple things. One, I listened to a lot of podcasts and so I enjoy the medium. I've always enjoyed spoken word entertainment of all kinds. So I , uh, being a , a consumer of podcasts, I became interested in the features of podcasts that I really like and those that I didn't like as much. And then the pandemic came and all performing pretty much shut down. So I did not have an outlet of any kind , uh, for entertaining people. The first thing I started doing is writing, writing stories , uh, real stories about my life. And I spent a lot of the pandemic just writing. And at some point in there I was just listening to a podcast and I realized, you know, I could tell some of these stories in a podcast and then have an audience of some kind. Maybe it'll just be, you know, a few cousins , uh, but you know, somebody will listen to this. And that gave me a sense that gave me the outlet I needed during the pandemic when there was just no performing going on. So that's how it started.

Speaker 1 2:57

I love, you have a fairly common story, honestly, that I've heard over the last few of these interviews, but also just talking to bus route customers, a lot of people who had a creative outlet that was physically based , we went and we did comedy on stage , right ? Or right , right. Um, a friend who traveled the world and had a really popular travel blog Yeah. Or somebody who was doing , um, just in-person, you know, speaking arrangements. It's as soon as Covid hit, we all are at home. And there's just a lot of people who said, I need to get a new creative outlet. I can't sit at home and play video games and make sourdough bread the whole time. So yeah , I I love hearing that now that everything's kind of reopened. Um, what's kind of kept you around podcasting?

Speaker 2 3:48

Yeah, that is a great question. Why am I still doing this <laugh> ? What's a matter with me? This is, I did not expect us to turn into a therapy session, but this is great

Speaker 1 3:58

<laugh> .

Speaker 2 3:59

You know, the thing that keeps me going, first of all, I really, you know, I, I really had a clear vision for what I wanted the show to be. And the show is exactly what I wanted it to be. A light , uh, humorous look at human behavior discussion, unscripted conversations and story sharing . I want it to be something that people could listen to while they folded their laundry or they were on their commute. You might learn something, but it's totally unintended. It's not that kind of podcast where you're gonna be rewinding to, wait, I missed something important, I've gotta write it down. You know, it's more just a friendly, it's like really intended to be like, those times when you hang out with your friends and people are just talking about something they read or heard or something they saw, and everybody has an opinion about it. And that's, that's what I wanted and that's what the show is. And I feel really good about that. And each week it's a different episode. So if you don't like one topic, there's a different , you know, there's a host of different topics. The only thing that keeps me going currently is when people reach out, strangers reach out and they say, I really like your show. I listen to it at work. It helps me from keeping falling asleep. <laugh> . Um , one person just wrote that to me recently and I said, what's your job? I hope you're not an airplane pilot or a surgeon or something, <laugh> . They said, oh no, nothing important. Only welding. I'm like, welding

Speaker 1 5:29

Don't what he , he's welding the airplanes. <laugh> . Yeah.

Speaker 2 5:32

If you're holding a blow torch, hopefully you're not at risk for falling asleep. But at any rate, that's how, that's how we serve that particular person. Uh, other people say similar kinds of things. You know, they, they like, they look forward to it as a light part of their day when they're doing something that otherwise isn't particularly, particularly pleasant. So that keeps me in the game.

Speaker 1 5:54

Uh,

Speaker 2 5:55

Otherwise it's a lonely, I feel like it's a pretty lonely performance medium because you don't get any feedback, you have no audience reaction. And my whole life has been geared toward reading the audience. Is this working? Is this not working as a podcast? Other than seeing what downloads you get, you don't really know if people like it. You know? It's, it's kind of , um, it's kind of weirdly isolating in a way. And I wish, I wish there was more of that feedback. So that feedback, whenever I get it keeps me going. That's the only thing right now. Well, that in the millions of dollars I'm making <laugh> podcast. Did we , we'll ,

Speaker 1 6:34

We'll , we'll have to dive in like supposed to mention that. Yeah. I think we need to dive into the millions in a little bit.

Speaker 2 6:39

Millions and millions. I

Speaker 1 6:40

Do love that point you're making though, that it's funny cuz it is a performance. We are performing, we're telling stories, we're right . Sharing something we've learned with a podcast audience. And even when you start getting really substantial numbers, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of listens y yet still it can be extremely isolating. I think we all see the largest podcasters, the world getting harassed on Twitter all the time or something. They , you think, oh, there's so many people reaching out. Yeah , I'm not gonna reach out to my favorite podcast. But as a listener of shows, I notice if I just tweet something about a show that I like almost every time there's a response, it's a really high hit rate because yeah , I think for most podcasters it's really only one out of a thousand that are really reaching out on a consistent basis.

Speaker 2 7:32

Yeah. And I'm begging people now on my podcast to reach out. I'm begging them, I'm saying, I'm lonely. I need to hear from you, <laugh> . It's pretty, it's really sad when you think about it, but , uh, people do reach out and it's great. The other thing that happens , um, I don't know if this happens to anyone else, but you said before I was like everyone else, so maybe this is another way I'm like everyone else. And that is whatever your number is. So let's say you start off, like, when I first started, I was getting like 25 downloads for the first couple of episode, whatever it was. It was very small. And, and I know that's fairly typical for an independent and new podcast. And I would say things like, well if I just could get like a hundred people listening, you know, I would feel good about that cuz that's like a hundred people sitting in a small theater, which I've performed in before. And that would be pretty cool. A hundred people sat and listened to me do a show. So you get a hundred and then you say, you know what would be cool? You know, what would really make me feel better? Hundred

Speaker 1 8:34

Hundred .

Speaker 2 8:35

Yeah. 150 , 200 . And then it just, you keep, no matter what number you get to, you're always like, okay, but could it just be a little more? And I think part of that is you want some idea that what you're doing is useful and entertaining and worthwhile and the only thing you have is the downloads. And when you get whatever your target is, then it's, it's like, it's like a drug or something. It's like you just want a little bit more <laugh> or you just need a little bit more to get that high.

Speaker 1 9:10

Let , let me get a hit of the podcast downloads <laugh> .

Speaker 2 9:12

Yeah. Let me just get a little bit. And I think I, I was getting a little , uh, I was, you know, checking the downloads too much. I had to regulate it cuz it , you know, you start, you get into the habit of, okay, now what is it now, let's see , it's been 15 minutes, is there another person? Um, so , um, I had to kind of calm down a little bit about that, but I think the interaction with the audience is what keeps me going and I wish there were more of it.

Speaker 1 9:36

So you've mentioned a few times growing the show so that you get the feedback and you understand that this is valuable to people. Do you have any advice on how to grow a show? Because a lot of podcasters, the average is 30 downloads per episode and you're well above that. How did you grow the podcast?

Speaker 2 9:54

So the first thing, and the thing that I still do is I ask people to share the show. If it , it's likely that if they like it then other people will like it, you know, or read on your website that Overcast is one of the places you can list your show. And I started listing it there and that was really helpful. It's pretty expensive, but you get a listing for about a month. Yeah. And I found that quickly grew the show from a handful of people to a few hundred people. So that, that was really a good investment. And I still list there, the thing that's really been effective recently , uh, is the , uh, the advertising campaign that you're running right now where you can record an ad and it is played on podcast to people listening to podcasts. And one of the things that's really important to know is that not everybody's into podcast, you know? Yeah. And , um, and so you can quickly isolate yourself at a party. If you tell people you're doing a podcast <laugh> , if you say that too loudly, people will start shrinking away from you <laugh>. But people who like podcasts are the greatest people to advertise podcasts too. So I actually have been trying to think about how I could do that effectively and efficiently and are right about the time , uh, you announced your advertising program. And I jumped on that immediately because I said, this is great, this is great. Cuz now people who are actually into listening will hear about my show. And if they're interested in what we do, then, you know, maybe will get some traction. And really quickly, my audience grew overall by about 30%.

Speaker 1 11:48

Wow. It was

Speaker 2 11:49

Pretty, pretty instant , uh, within the first few weeks of, of doing it. And I went aggressively with it, with the campaign. I went for the 50,000 because, you know, I know how I respo . I mean, I, I watch ads on TV and I must have seen them a hundred times and I can't tell you what the product is. I have no idea. Right.

Speaker 1 12:11

So you used buzz spread ads to run podcast promos that are playing in other podcasts. And so just the first time you did it, you started with 50,000 downloads. Yes. What did that translate to? If you can give us like real numbers, I know you said 30% growth. Is that 30% growth from 30 to 40 or is it larger numbers?

Speaker 2 12:32

Uh, it went from, so I was getting around 5,000 downloads a month, my show across the catalog of episodes, and it went to , um, over 7,000. Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:47

That's incredible. What are you doing in these promos? You know, can you give us some pointers or have you run more and learned as you've done them?

Speaker 2 12:55

Well, I only have the one that I've done, but I'm gonna record a second one. But what I wanted the promo to do is capture the essence of the spirit of the show, and at the same time give some examples of what they would encounter. And the , and I thought about including clips, you know, of , of discussions and funny moments, but, you know, we only have 40 seconds. And so I felt like that while that might be more entertaining, it wouldn't really capture as much information. So the way I did it was I introduced myself, I talk about what the show is about. We talk about human behavior, the curious things that people do, but we do it with empathy and warmth. We tell personal stories, we have fun. So within 40 seconds, I'm able to convey the essence of the show, my personality.

Speaker 3 13:48

Hi, this is Ross, the host of Smells Like Humans. Each week we talk about the curious things that people do. This show is for you when you're in the mood for unscripted, lighthearted conversation, personal stories, and just a smattering of psychology and information you can use. I promise we will make your day pass a little faster and put a smile on your face. Sometimes silly, sometimes serious, but always fun. Please join us because no matter who you are, we all smell like humans . Please follow the link in the show notes.

Speaker 2 14:27

Some of our topics are silly, some are serious or some are right down the middle. So I gave, I gave a range of that, that was what I was going for. And, and like I said, it was really effective and I'd like to make another one. Um, that's a little different in case people are tuning out the, the first one and they need, they need something new.

Speaker 1 14:49

How have the , um, results compared with, you've said you've run ads on Overcast, have you run ads other places besides Overcast and buzz spread ads?

Speaker 2 14:58

There's nothing that I've done that compares with the Buzzsprout ad campaign.

Speaker 1 15:04

Really?

Speaker 2 15:05

Oh yeah. Because you're getting in front of so many people. And what I like about it is because of all the reasons I said in the ad where I can really convey what the shows about, what my personality is like, and the topics, you know, in these other ads, they're just listing it, it's just a short description of the show. And so that's just a lot less compelling. You know,

Speaker 1 15:25

With a podcast promo, you are able to get a little bit of that taste of people's personality so that you can tell, there's some things that I can read the written description and you see it and you go, this could be good. I have no idea. Is it gonna be really funny? Is it overly silly? Is it gonna be kind of stiff? Is it gonna be clinical? Um, how are we approaching the topic? And all of those are appropriate ways to do shows , um, but they may not be attracted to the same audience. Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:56

And I felt that since my show is a little unusual in that we deal with a different topic every week. I have different guests every week. Sometimes the shows are tongue in cheek, sometimes they're more on the serious side, sometimes they're just really silly. It's not for everybody. Right. So I I just felt like having them hear me in the ad and talk about the kinds of things we do conveys the spirit of it. So if you're looking for something a little less intense and something now will just be a light entertainment, then yeah. Tune in. And , um, and so that's, that's why I thought doing those ads and having it go right to people who already liked podcasts, that to me is, that's the win right there. Like, that is the sweet spot of advertising. Like listing things on Instagram and Facebook and all that stuff, you're, you're spending a lot of money to get to people who are like those people at the party. When you tell 'em you're a pod doing a podcast, they , you just tell right away. It's like no interest.

Speaker 1 16:56

<laugh>, there's, there is some truth because if you're trying to convince a random person, Hey, you should like podcasts and the podcast in particular you should like, and check out is my podcast. You're trying to sell two things. You're trying to sell this medium under this habit of listening to something week after week. Well, there's about 30% of the US population that listens to podcasts every week, and you only want to talk to them like the other 70%. We'd love for people to become new podcast listeners, but the selling point for you, that's so much more difficult when you're saying, Hey, you should start listening to podcasts. You should add this into your life. Here's times in your day you could listen to them and also go subscribe to my show and follow me on Apple Podcasts and then we're going going to be connected. It's too much. And so by doing those podcast sponsorships, you are able to at least eliminate that first big hurdle and focus on the second. Yeah,

Speaker 2 17:59

It's great. And the only other advice I would give , um, is that if you are gonna take advantage of this program, and I, I have taken full advantage of it. And , um, so I, I really feel good about the program. I feel like it's working and I recommend it, but another podcaster or two reached out to me and they said, I'm thinking about doing this and I want , I heard your ad and I like it. I want to know if you think it's working. And I said, yes, but I've been buying the 50,000 blocks, the 50,000 ad blocks. So I think the only thing I would say is if you're gonna buy a smaller block and expect the floodgates to open that, that might be a little unrealistic. And you have to prepare for the fact that it's, it's gonna take some repetition. Um, and I know it's all budget dependent and all of that, you know, I think if you're, if you're counting your pennies and you're like, okay, I can afford the lowest level, but then it's gonna , I'm gonna have this tons of new listeners, I don't think that's necessarily a realistic expectation. I mean , you have to think of it just like, you know, the advertising world, you know, they, they're all, it's all about repetition and uh , you know, familiarizing the audience with what you're bringing to them. So that would be just one thing. So

Speaker 1 19:18

Have you actually run, you've run, I know you've only used the same audio, the same, you know Yeah . Promo that you created. Have you run that same promo multiple times to try to increase Yes . The amount of times an individual has listened to the promo?

Speaker 2 19:32

Yeah, I think I've, I've , I've , I'm guessing that I've done nine or 10 , uh, blog Wow . Of ads. Yeah. I went in really heavy on it because I have been doing the podcast for a year and I was sort of at a crossroads where I had a nice community, a good audience, good size audience that I'd built up. But I wanted to see if I could take it to the next level. When the at ad opportunity came along, I wanted to take full advantage of it. So it's been a quite an investment, but I'm waiting to see like what happens. And I know a lot of people are interested in monetizing their show. I'm not saying I'm not interested in doing that, but that's not the main objective. My main objective right now is to grow the audience as, as far as I can take it and then decide what to do with it. If monetization comes at some point, that's great, but that isn't my focus. I wanna do the show that I wanna do. I wanna do the best show that I can, put out the best shows that we can in the genre that we're in, which is sort of a mixed bag of genres really . And see what the audience is for that.

Speaker 1 20:41

Looking back , uh, what's some advice you wish you had when you started?

Speaker 2 20:46

Well, I'm only actually in just starting my second year, I'm three months into my second year. So I'm still pretty much a rookie. You're not paying me to do this interview. No one will believe it because I've got lucky and finding Buzzsprout, I'm a pretty tech , well, I shouldn't say that cuz you saw me fumbling around with my computer today, but I'm pretty technically competent typically. But I didn't know, I didn't have the slightest idea how to make a podcast. I had no, no ideas. I know it's possible, but I figured I would have to invest in hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment, all these things. And I just didn't know how to do anything. And I listened to one of my shows that I was listening to extensively was, you're Wrong about mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I was listening to it on Buzz Sprout cuz it was on Buzz Sprout. I don't know if you knew that, but it was <laugh> like, it still is. Yeah. Yeah. So I said, well this is a really good show. They have millions of people listening or whatever obviously is a huge hit. And if they're using Buzzsprout, I'm , I'll use Buzzsprout. And so I started using Buzzsprout and I, I absolutely knew nothing. And the great thing about, there's two great things about Bo Sprout . You have content on the site that kind of walks you through it. But the best thing, and the thing I hope that never changes is when you have a stupid question, you send an email and within five minutes somebody, I don't know who these people are, I don't know if they're trapped in your basement somewhere and you're dropping food scraps to them, but they respond right away and they're always helpful. I think out of the a hundred questions I asked, I only got one time where the person didn't really understand the question probably cuz it was poorly worded. So I got great help. So every step of the way I would just write another dumb question like, I don't know how to do this, or what happens when I do this? And they would always answer. So the one thing that I would tell somebody starting out is find a plate . If it's not buzzsprout, find something like Buzzsprout, which is a , a friendly place where you can be stupid and they will not shun you. That's important. And then the other thing is really have a strong sense of the kind of show you wanna do. And then do that show, do that show, because that's ultimately, you know, what this is about. You know, it's , uh, you're , you're not likely going to be the biggest next , next biggest thing where millions of people are listening. So you might as well do a show that you really, that's really authentic for you and that you like and you know, everything else you just kind of learned . The editing was kind of tedious at first, where the first, the first couple of shows, it probably took me all day to do an edit on a 45 minute show because I didn't know what I was doing. But now editing is like one of my favorite things to do

Speaker 1 23:46

Really. What do you use to edit?

Speaker 2 23:48

I just use, I mean, it's kind of embarrassing. I'm pretty, pretty , uh, bare bones, but I, I used to use Garage band . That's

Speaker 1 23:56

Great. And

Speaker 2 23:56

Work . It just works great. Yeah. I , I really like it. I know there's all sorts of other ones out there that are probably great, but I just, for me , uh, it just works great.

Speaker 1 24:04

One of the things I love about podcasting is if it's cheap microphones, it's relatively unsophisticated audio tools, you know, you're able to use totally free things like GarageBand or Audacity to edit low-cost tools to upload your podcast and get it out to the world. It is really nice that we have some areas that are, you know, democratized and it's made pretty easy for people to share their voice without being super technically, you know, inclined or, you know, have just a ton of money at their disposal. Yeah,

Speaker 2 24:39

Yeah. No, it's great. And that , and that pertains to other forms of electronic media now that obviously, you know, from all, all the things that we know about that people utilize relatively inexpensively and get their voice heard, and some of those people are, you know, make huge successes of themselves or their

Speaker 1 25:00

Products. So what do you , what's next for the show? Do you have plans for the next year?

Speaker 2 25:05

My thought is to continue to at least do a hundred shows and see where we are and then we'll make a decision whether to keep going or not. So if people, if the audience is growing and people are , um, reaching out and, and, and giving us that coveted feedback, that coveted positive feedback, don't reach out and give negative feedback. <laugh> , we don't need that. We're all already struggling, we're already struggling emotionally. We don't need to be told that we're , that you don't like the show. But if you like the show, you know, that's the, any show you're listening to, you said this before, but it really does mean something to the people putting out the show. If you let them know you like it somehow they really like it or just engage with them. Say, you know, you , if you have ideas for topics or you have questions, reaching out is the only, it's probably the most important thing you can do to support a show besides sharing it.

Speaker 1 26:03

Yeah, absolutely. I , it means so much to people. Podcasting can feel very one way sometimes. So the ability to go and , uh, drop a comment on a social post or reach out to the email address that they have for the show or leave a voice memo, whatever way the show has set up for you to engage with them is just huge affirmation to the creators because most podcasts are not getting millions and millions of comments and feedback and donations. Um , it's for most of us, it's just a few, every few episodes. So those always mean quite a bit. I'm

Speaker 2 26:39

Available for meals as well, <laugh> , if you wanna take me out for a meal, I will

Speaker 1 26:45

Do that. If you are a , uh, avid listener of smells like humans, make sure that you take Ross out for a good meal. Ross, thank you so much for , uh, sharing this time with us. And I

Speaker 2 26:55

Wasn't kidding about the meal.