Hash Church Season 12 Episode 17

Join us for another Episode of Hash Church 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_10 0:00

Get my welcome everybody. Let me know if you can hear me in the chat. We just went live about eight seconds ago. I just set up the recording and I just got home last night fairly late from Boston. So let me just shut this advertisement down. And there I am. I am there. I am there. All right. Awesome. Um, yeah, a little bit tired, a little bit sort of foggy today, but uh, we are gonna get through it. Very last minute. I only sent out the links to my panelists uh last night, actually. So give me a few minutes and I will set everything up. Poppity pop, pop, pop. I hope everyone's doing well today on this beautiful Sunday morning, April 26th here in British Columbia. Absolutely be beautiful. All right, we're getting close. So I was gonna be funny and uh, you know, do my uh my baston accent. I was gonna say uh I said it in the chat room already. I was like, all right, this is my new uh press club ad would just say uh these guys are fucking wicked smat. Uh please go buy their shit. But in the meantime, it's not a joke how much these guys have supported Hash Church over the course of the last two years, and you can uh you can uh yeah, uh elevate your solventless game at Hash Church with the press club's premium lineup of rosin extraction essentials proudly supporting the community through top-tier tools that make clean, potent concentrates a breeze. Uh from their legendary rosin bags with proprietary pink stitch and zero blowout guarantee for unbeatable durability and yield to award-winning wash bags, premium parchment paper, free press molds, and innovative press club rosin press for precision heat, precise heat, and pressure control. Whether you're crafting at home or scaling up, their isoswab stations and collection plates keep your setup spotless and efficient, all crafted with 100% food grade dive-free nylon for contaminant-free results to preserve those precious volatile organic compounds. You can join the press club and champion hash church by heading over to thepressclub.co today and gear up for your next epic press. We sure, sure, sure. Appreciate all of the good folks at the press club. Well, you can also elevate your session at Hash Church with Puffco's uh cutting edge lineup. Uh first uh with the innovative pivot, a pocket-sized dab pen that delivers a full rig experience on the go, featuring a quick release 3D chamber for premium flavor and real-time temperature control with four heat presets and haptic feedback. For epic group rips, you can dive into the Puffco Peak Pro powered by Revolutionary 3D XL bowl technology that offers almost 80% larger chamber for two times more vapor and even heating from the sides to really get those terpenes out, and an XL joystick for fuller loads with less reclaim. And I don't miss the new proxy, really, and the core modular portable powerhouse with four precision heat settings, fast 90-minute charge, and boost made for intense hits, and easy disassembly for seamless cleaning. Perfect, really, for any adventure. I've taken mine on a lot. You can support Puffco's game changing innovations by heading over to www.puffco.com or following at Puffco on Instagram today. I do want to give a side note to James from Puffco. Thank you so much, brother, for lacing me up. Uh, going out of your way, driving to my hotel. Uh it it Boston wouldn't have been the same without Puffco's support. Uh, and we're gonna be talking a little bit about Boston today and the NECAN event. But in the meantime, I really want to shout out who I was with in Boston. Uh, Grandmaster LEDs, obviously, a company that I'm a part of, it was founded by Thomas Gibson with one mission in mind: build the most advanced lighting systems possible for growers who demand true top shelf results. With a deep understanding of plant biology and light intensity, spectrum control, and canopy performance. Grandmaster LEDs really has become a trusted name for cultivators chasing elite quality. These aren't just lights, they're precision tools designed for those who care about terpene expression, resin production, structure, yield, and consistency. Every fixture is built with focus, purpose, and a relentless dedication to helping growers unlock the full potential of their genetics. So if your goal is to grow louder flowers, frostier resin, and premium grade harvests, Grandmaster LEDs is built for your mission. On Hash Church, we salute companies pushing the craft forward, and Grandmaster LEDs is doing exactly that. You can head on over to GrandmasterLEDs.com or.ca if you're in Canada. And you can use the code HashChurch10 as a code to get yourself a 10% discount. So shout out uh to those guys because uh yeah, Thomas is just such a good dude and uh the lights are so amazing. Spending the whole week uh at Nikon in Boston, I was really able to talk to a lot of people about the lights, and uh, we'll be talking about that as well. And it wouldn't be complete if I didn't shout out the bubble bags. We do stand out as the premier choice for waterhouse extraction, and I hope it's no surprise why we are the original innovators. We set the standards for quality and performance. We crafted with durability in mind. Our bags come with a lifetime warranty, ensuring you're covered for years of consistent use. And the team behind bubble bags, well, we take pride in our pioneering legacy, backing every product with unwavering confidence and a commitment to excellence, kind of making us a trusted go-to for enthusiasts and professionals alike, seeking top-tier hash extraction results. You can check us out at www.bubblebag.com and you can use the code hash church10, hash church10, uh, and you'll get yourself a 10% discount. So yeah, hopefully you guys can do that. And I'm gonna bring some folks in here real quick. A couple of goodies. We did have Masters of Ros in this weekend, so we've got Stuart in from Miners Melts. He uh took second place, actually. So he is going to be talking a little bit about that today. I've also got Caleb in. I had to have Caleb in because well, Caleb, I bumped into who did I bump into? I bumped into uh Travis from Lobster Farms. I did bump into Travis from Lobster Farms, and Travis hooked me up, and I'm gonna try and see if I can put up a shot. Oh, look at that. I do have one right there. Awesome. So thankful, Travis. You're such a good dude. Rotten skateboards in the house, the three-strain flight. Yes, it had the Harlem River haze. Yes, it had the pineapple piff. Uh, and I can't remember the other piff. Do you remember the third piff that was supposed to be in the flight?

SPEAKER_01 7:08

I don't find out right now.

SPEAKER_10 7:10

Yeah, I smoked the haze myself. I gave the piff, uh, the pineapple piff to my boys, uh Mark from Canada Brand Solutions. Shout out to Mark. Uh, and I gave the other piff to oh, which one you got there? Show me.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Third one's Holy Communion.

SPEAKER_10 7:27

No, it wasn't Holy Communion for me. He gave me two piffs. I'd have to look at the pictures.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Um, might have been different.

SPEAKER_10 7:34

It was, it was different. I had that one, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

And then the third one, the pineapple tiffs.

SPEAKER_10 7:40

Okay, yeah. He gave me a couple of piffs, and I ended up giving one to a group of friends from Holland. They had just flown in from Amsterdam and didn't have any nice herbs, so they were super happy. Uh, welcome, Stuart, as well. While we're talking, we're gonna get to you in one second. I do want to tell a funny story. Um, man, I had a funny idea while I was in Boston. I was actually out to smoke. Um, it wasn't the haze. I thought it was the haze. Someone else who was like from Vermont was telling me about a haze. And he was like, Oh, yeah, we got this great haze, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And basically told me that, or gave it to me, gave me this haze joint. And so I went out. I'm trying to find the picture, but I I'll probably have to go on my phone to do it. I go outside. By the way, I had an idea with this joint. It was such a nice little joint, and I'm smoking on my Puffco. Thank you, James, for lacing me up. I had a little core the whole time I was there. And instead of q-tipping the bowl, I put a pretty big rip in and it was just a I took it on such a low temp. I thought, fuck, why are we q-tipping our Puffcos with joints? This just doesn't make sense that we're not doing this. So I stuck my joint in there and I wrapped it around and sucked up all the oil in the chamber. People are gonna do this now, but I'll tell you, the joint was so small and I couldn't light it. I'm like lighting it, lighting it, lighting it. Dude, about two seconds into lighting this fucking joint, and I I've never seen anything like this in my life. It actually like shocked me. I was legitimately surprised. Like, what the fuck just happened? The picture is so hard to find, though. I don't think oh, there it is. There it is. I like the joint. The flame grabs the rosin because the joint's so small. Dude, it was like magician's paper. It went all of the paper burnt off the joint, all of the flour fell onto the ground, and the and all I was left in my mouth, the only thing left in my mouth was the was the the filter. The entire dude, in in listen, in 40 fucking years of puffing, bro, I have never seen this in my life. And it actually kind of gave me an idea. I guess I'll put it out there and I'll laugh when we see it. Prank joint. A prank joint made out of magician's paper, so that when you light it, it just goes. I'm telling you, the flash of fire was this fucking big in front of my face. It just went poof. The only guy that saw me, and I'm standing out in front at Nikon in Boston, Baston, and the only guy that saw me is this like local guy, and he's he's smoking a joint. He goes, He, I hear him go, wow, that was fucking weird. And I was just like, I was so happy someone had experienced it with me. I was so happy that someone had seen it because nobody else had seen it. And uh, you know, you fucking puff for 35 or almost 40 years, and you you have an experience like that happen. I'll be honest, it was super, super trippy. Very trippy. But I want to talk about Nikan and Boston uh in a little bit. I really want to talk about New York, Masters of Rosin. Heard all sorts of great shit about your entry, uh, Stuart. Uh way to represent, dude. Go to New York for 420. Uh did you go for 420 as well? You did, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yeah, we went um we got there on the 16th and we were out there till the 21st. So we got to check out you know, 420. And that was my first time in New York for you know, the all those festivities. We went out for 710 a couple years ago, but this was kind of the first time I really got to see uh the New York Canada scene and in full force.

SPEAKER_10 11:32

So walk us through that a little bit. How was that? You know, you you arrive in New York, you got did did you go with Jack or did you go alone? Or was you went with Jack?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yeah, I went with Jack. His uh his lady actually um went out before and was able to drop off all of our entries. Um and then we showed up a few days later. Um, so yeah, I was there with Jack and Portal Provisions and then uh Doobie Dudes, um, and then Lulu Melt. He flew in uh pretty much just for the day of the event. He's another uh Colorado homie uh grower. Um and he works with Frosty Jacks and uh his team for making hash, but he's who won. Um so it was really cool, you know, obviously just to have you know the podium swept by all Colorado um growers, hash makers. Um really huge um for the state. Um as you know, I'm born and raised here in Colorado and um you know kind of grew up and was exposed to the the cannabis culture here up in the mountains, which you know, we have a very vibrant scene in history, um, you know, so much with genetics and and just uh uh you know between what uh Scott from Rare Dankness and a lot of other breeders first did uh by putting you know the mountains of Colorado on the map. And then, you know, there's been just so many small uh talented growers up here. Um again, it's mainly just small indoor grows. So you have people growing very unique genetics, you have um, you know, them spending a lot of time per plant compared to other uh growers and farmers around the country. Um and I think that's you know was highlighted uh you know, this last uh with this competition. Um again, I mean, we've gone through so many different cycles in Colorado as far as uh, you know, the scene in an industry with quality and quantity, you know, we it's it's been a war of attrition here sometimes just to survive as a grower because um, you know, uh in about 2012, 2013 it got very competitive and everybody really had to focus on, you know, many people were just focused on, you know, and you had to hit like two to three pounds per light. A lot of people got rid of genetics that, you know, didn't, you know, do the yield or uh harvest in eight weeks, uh weren't commercially viable and in in that uh side of things. And then also again, it just pushed away from quality. People got were very good growers and they were they became very good at being uh producing very good quality products for very cheap, um, which sharpened the blade of a lot of talented people here, but um we got away from kind of just trying to grow the best because there wasn't much of a market for that, and it was really hard to have craft prop quality products in Colorado, um, you know, the last like until you know the last few years, like with in-house and some of these other brands, 710 initially kind of taking the charge. There was this push back to like, you know, unique genetics, high-end products, you know, you know, like rosin and full melt hash and um you know, people in-house phenol hunting. Yeah. Uh so yeah, it it's cool to see for Colorado because again, there is like everybody here, a lot of the people are growers and they're making their own products. We're not with huge farms. So it's very personalized experience of what you know, the products that we're producing. Um they're not huge gardens. So again, um, it's just me and my brother with our garden. We focus so much time on just the nuance and every little step of the stuff. Yeah, show us in your terms. Yeah, I and I, you know, again, I think hopefully that was uh highlighted. And I think it's the best material that I've grown in the last six years as well of entry. Um so and you still have some, right? So when I get there next week, we're gonna be definitely yeah, fuck yeah, man. Um give all the credit. Yeah, exactly. So it's like I'm a grower who became a hash maker, and like I, you know, there is such an art of hash making, but there is growing is infinitely variable. So, you know, if anything, I wanted to make sure to highlight, you know, the genetics, the breeding um powers up, you know, Brett, the the Gary Payton again, all hype aside, is some of the best resin that I've ever come across um in my 20 years of growing. And it's just, you know, it's special. It's hard to describe these plants that um you know have it's again, this is the lowest grade that comes off the Gary. This is like the B grade 45U. I know my camera is not the biggest, but there you see it. It's it's like, you know, every bit of resin that comes off that plant, and this is generally what you see with some of these really unicorn special plants. Even, you know, they might not uh be the biggest dumpers and produce, you know, a ton of hash per biomass, but every bit of uh the resin that comes off of that uh plant melts all the way down to like the 45U. Um and I think that's a trait that I've seen that kind of like black maple, Jerry Payton, cowboy cushion. Um, you know, some some some of these plants have like this translucently wet, full melt that again. Or yes, ortega. Yeah, so it's uh it's really yeah, they're there's special plants. I think it's sometimes people avoid working with these plants, or that they're maybe not as highlighted because they're not the biggest yielders and then they're harder to work with. Um so maybe that's why you don't see a ton of you know, some of the black maple and some of these, but I've always been a hash maker who promotes uh washing greasy varieties. You want to have a plant that's easy enough to collect, but you also like it's almost a good sign to have a grease on, you know, to have a little bit of a hard time either sifting it or you know, uh having to be really quick, get it off your bags, have to make sure your room is as, you know, and and those those plants that are right on the line of being viable for uh the uh our water process, it's kind of where I've seen is the best quality product. So yeah, it's an amazing experience. I'm again just stoked for Colorado in general. I think it's cool to just see, you know, um Colorado again be, you know, um highlighted as a state and um you know that has a lot of history and talent, people who really care about, you know, the plant and representing it and uh the best that they can with integrity and um you know putting everything in. Again, I'm a single source, so I like to do everything from you know uh breeding all the way through the process and be involved and uh and have an understanding of everything. And and hash is a culmination of all those processes genetics, every little detail through the grow and the hash making process.

SPEAKER_10 18:17

So yeah, you're not wrong there. You know, when you talked about the art of making melt, I'm now in a secondary place of the art. I want to make the melt, I want to make podium products, but I understand that I have to fund those products. I'm not interested in distalid or rosolid or all these other like super low quality products, but I do love the idea of using um traditional hash as my means of being able to create products that can still that can help almost be helper products to products like MELT and in order to be able because you hear people all the time like this is tough, it's hard, it's like I'm single source, I'm like everything I get, I'm making into fresh, I'm making into MELT. So for quite a while now, you know, for myself, as you build a business where you really want to get it out there, but you don't want to affect the integrity of all that. I mean, it's why we have we want to have such close relationships with guys like you and Jack and you know, so many other people that I see as shining stars in Colorado. Man, man, like Colorado completely impressed me. Um, but it is an art form to produce hash that not just the highest level of a snob wants. And one of the difficulties I ran into in Colorado, we have like a no-melt bubble. It's still around 60% because it doesn't melt. Um, the SOPs on making it are much easier, right? You're you don't need the cold room, you don't need all this stuff. I think we can all agree that people are going to smoke things that aren't the highest quality of rosin or full melt bubble. Uh, that's always gonna happen. And uh so I like to be able to kind of make that available to them. One of the problems I bumped into in Califor uh in Colorado, and it was it was small and we and we fixed it, but trying to kind of figure out, you know, because we we we put melt out, which was great, very well received. It was beautiful, it was like honey bananas, but we sell a lot of bubble in Colorado for a much better, cheaper, more inexpensive price, and that's probably why we sell more of it, of just regular bubble. Well, unfortunately, one of the bubble heads who went and bought it assumed it was full melt. You know, nowhere on it did it say full melt, but now what I really want to do is I want to figure out a way to mark the non-melt bubble, possibly as non-melt, uh, because I don't think that's going to turn off a customer who's just really wanting to buy hash. You know, these are people that maybe want to roll it into a join or smoke it into a pipe and don't have like rigs and screens and all these different things. Maybe they want to puff it in a one-hitter and not have it melt and plug. Uh, it's extremely strong hash. I would certainly not kick it out of bed for eating crackers. Uh, but someone bought it and was like, what the fuck? I'm super disappointed, Bubble Man. Like, what the fuck? So I'm in this position where I don't want to ruin my good name on quality and caliber, but I want to service more people than just that. I want to build the market that you're in by turning on people who currently have a Bic Lighter as their only piece of paraphernalia. They only smoke joints. If I can get them into a hash hit or a pure hash joint or starting to, you know, uh look at stuff like this. I I've shown this many, many times. This hash right here, if I can get it out, because it's literally stuck in here. This is about nine or 10 months old right now. Very sticky. Very stupid. And you would not ever believe that that's a 30% THC. This is 30% THC. So what my art that I'm talking about. About these days. There's no oil in this. Like, I haven't done anything to try and, you know, make this look better. I'm not like in the lab manipulating it. I rolled it up into a temple ball eight months. It flattened into this just at room temperature. It just fell in the bag. But you can see I've shown this hash before. It's very, very gummy and nice. This is what old school guys are looking for. And I really feel a responsibility to help those guys gain access to product that uh they otherwise would not have. And not a lot of brick hash or temple balls in the Colorado market. And I feel like we're doing a disservice by ignoring those people because those are our future heads. Some of those people who are going to get turned on, you know, did you start with full melt bubble hash? Like I maybe you did. Like it did happen to a few, but most of us, you know, started with brown, moldy Mexican weed or some other Jamaican or something, and then, you know, moved into this, this, this, and this. And it took a very long time to take the journey to climb the stairs to get to the full melt bubble. Uh, and over the years, turning people on, what I've noticed is it's too much for a lot of people. It's uh we need to kind of like, they need to be like, here, smoke a little joint, like try weed. It's really fun. Have a little gummy, have a little beverage, you know. From there, I love the idea of building a bridge over to where you are, Stuart. Um, for the pre-rolled joint people, right? We, you know, like rather than to me, pre-roll joints is an entry-level cannabis product. So I'm not mad at it. It's bringing people into our community. It's accessibility. It's accessibility, man. It's a it's a chance, it's an option. It's like a, you know what? I think I'll try smoking a joint. Do you guys want to go buy a pre-roll joint? Um, so it's a really cool kind of opportunity to build that bridge. You can't do it with high-end rosin, you can't do it with full melt bubble or full melt dry sift. It's you're missing too many sections. And so I come in with a 30%, you know, traditional style hash. We don't like to say that we're doing Moroccan hash or Afghan hash or Lebanese hash. We are doing a Lebanese style of hash or an Afghan-style hash. This is very, very much an Afghan style hash. You know, moisture content perfect, production of of the hash perfect. Um, the smell of it is so fucking good. It's almost like a deep chocolate with a ever so slight background smell of of coffee, you know. When you get these traditional hashes, you know, and I think we can also agree. I think we can also agree. Have you ever seen your full melt bubble? Maybe full melt bubble if it piatellas and then it butters out, you could see it in a particular way. But generally, rosin, high-end rosin, does not cure well. We don't want that skin on our rosin. We don't want that orange color. That's what it does when it cures. We want it fresh, pressed, out of the in the cold chain, like pulling snap. We want these beautiful rosins, but what we don't want is to age them. Traditional hash is the opposite. Traditional hash is it just it's actually an important relationship. I want more people to have. I want you guys to get a mechanical screen separation, bounce a little bit of your tricombs, you know. Don't try to make it 90%, but you, you know, rolling up a full melt bubble and making it look like a ball like this is not hard. It is the easiest thing you could do. You could do it in your hands, like with your fingers. You don't even need tools or anything. But taking a farmer's grade dry sift and turning it into a ball of hash, this tasty and soft, dry sift, bro. Like take your trim and run, you know, for for 20 minutes or run and get like dry sift. Try to even get it to stick together in your fingers. I'm not adding any binding agent to this. I'm not doing anything that's like altering it in some horrific way. I'm just following traditional techniques. Um, and I'm really excited to bring more of that uh to um to Denver and to Colorado. I think it's been very well received. We got one of the number one brick hash skews in Denver. Our little article came out the other day. And so uh, yeah, I'm with you, dude. I fucking love Denver. I love all you hash makers. You guys have a very beautiful passion. I want you guys to survive. I don't want you guys to drop off and be like, this is unaffordable. You know what I mean? Like it's like it's getting unaffordable. It's hard to grow these crops just to turn them into melt, just to kind of, I want to maximize. So if I can help guys like you find bits and pieces of your crop that aren't going into melt that can go into products like this, um, it A helps you grow your your audience with a different group of people who are, you know, maybe months or a year plus away from trying your actual highest caliber products. Uh, but it certainly doesn't mean that they can't um that they can't get into your products at a at a at another level. And so that's really what the Bubble Man brand is is focused on. And let me tell you, Stuart, it's an art. It's an art to try and produce beautiful rosin and beautiful hash for these very snobby, very like aware smokers who are, you know, they're looking for flavors, they're looking for uh feeling and experience, and they're very critical, they critique hard. And so I'm trying to make hash for them, but I'm also trying to make hash for all these other people. So I want them to know very specifically, if you go over here and you smoke this and you're expecting this, well, you're not going to be overly happy. And probably just the same way as someone who's looking for if you're an older guy looking for a 30% hash and you end up with something that's 65, I mean, that tears your head off, dude. And I've had a lot of talks with guys, most people who are trying to make traditional hash right now, they can't get it to bind together without oil. They have to use oil and uh distillate resin, rosin, fucking butane oil. Like I've seen everyone put everything in it. Um, so what they end up doing is they just make bubble because bubble is the only hash they can roll up and get to look like this, you know, if it's a 50 or a 60 percenter, it's not that difficult. Um, I'd love to hear more about the Masters of Rosin and kind of uh a little bit of the experience leading up to that for you guys uh in New York. Of course, Masters of Rosin. I was uh I probably was a judge at the first, maybe three or four of them, haven't been a judge for a while, but love what David's doing with Masters of Ros and always uh support it for sure. And uh, you know, I look at it as another sort of uh inspired by Legends of Hash event and probably one of the ones that has been done to the highest level. You know, David has done such a great job at Masters of Ros, and I love his the concepts he uses for his trophies, you know, having 77 entries. I mean, the last one I did, the highest one I did was 64 or 65. Uh, this is very unique. You know, you have to have a very specific type of judge who can understand and smoke 70 75 dabs in a small period of time. For me, I've explained how I try I um test for masters of rosin. I I lose one, two, three, I lose seven, eight, nine, I kind or eight, nine, ten, I sort of stick in a four to seven range. So I I I I tighten up my data set rather than make it larger. Um, and you know, I do it really quick. I usually smoke those dabs like all 77 or 64 the last time I did it in a day. Uh, and then I'll do it again the next day. Uh, and by the next day, from my notes, it'll be pretty, pretty noticeable where I'm leaning, at least in my top, you know, five to 10. Uh, and in a top five to 10, when you have 70, and this and masters of rosins are really nice. Like you get 60 entries, and like when I had 64 entries, there was really only a few that weren't that great. Uh, crazy enough, I remember that year. I remember the barb from the great gardener came in 64th, which is uh definitely not something you ideally want. It was still decent, but it was just it had a little bit of that, it was curing out a little bit, like the cold chain was lost. Um, but still, you can grind it down, you get your top 10. Within there, there's probably going to be like three, you know, that are exceptional. And now it's just a matter of figuring out of what order you want to put those three in. I've always uh loved being a judge. So when you enter, you cannot be a judge, is that correct? Or you are the judge?

SPEAKER_00 31:23

No, yeah. With mass with masters, they have a panel, uh pre-sex panel of judges. So this year is like Hunter from Hidden Forest, yeah, and like Sam. It's usually people who have either won it or podiumed or uh other professionals. Um, I know that uh yeah, uh I believe Scott Um uh Depe from Mothership, he was one of the judges. The G Z won forever. They have a couple like and then the uh yeah, Terps Army. Um Lorenzo, okay. Lorenzo is maybe Alice uh I don't know if Alice was in LA. She was in LA. I don't think she was this year in New York. Oh, okay. Um, but yes, either, you know, she's definitely been a judge multiple times. So it's usually very well respected people who are either makers or you know know their.

SPEAKER_10 32:08

You know what? It's so different. There's so many different ways to do it. I've always loved it, which is how I do legends and how we how legends came about accidentally. We didn't plan this. You know what I'm saying? Like Sam and I planned an event for everyone to agree to come and just celebrate hash. But at the event, Sam is such a fucking fiend. He uh he's like, hey, why don't we I want to try everyone's hash and I'll let you know what I think is the best. And that's really how legends, and then you gotta keep it, you gotta keep in mind too. Back then, um, we were all like, even still to this day, just enamored by Sam. Like this was like Sam was the snuffalopagus back then. He wasn't hanging out with everyone. He was like, this was before hash church. He was he was very, very hard to nail down. And so to have an event where you could just go and smoke hash with him and sit at his table and let him smoke your hash and give you a critique. We didn't realize what a cool thing we were starting. And so eventually, after several Amsterdam legends, you know, I thought, well, why don't we do it where all the people who are invited to enter are the judges. You are judging by your peers. I want all the hashmakers, and of course, each hash maker could go in there and just vote for their own. I get that. But these guys were different. They were, you know, they were like they really. I appreciate a hash maker who can cut through their own cognitive dissonance, smoke something that's better than what they have, and then mark it down on paper. You know, to me, that is the highest level of integrity. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

I just said it. Yeah, it's a very humbling experience. That's why I like going to these. You can even think, you know, you're a lot of times we're isolated as growers and hash makers, at least, you know, up here in the mountains. If I was just in my own little world, you know, I might think I have like superior or a really good product, but you don't really know until you start going to these things. I mean, the first time I went to ego clash or you know, I've done very bad in these competitions too. Like, and that's what people gotta realize too. It's not like, you know, it takes a lot of work. It's I've taken a lot of L's and um had to learn both the strategy of uh, you know, kind of what to enter. There's a strategy in that, you know, there's a strategy, it's um rights there is a hundred percent. And also it depends on, you know, again, if it's a panel, if it's your peers, I I like there's only a couple or only a few competitions I do that are just like panel judged, and it's really, you know, masters or other ones that have highly selective judges, and then there's enough of them to where there's a data pool, um, you know, to where there's yeah, nine judges, it kind of evens out and and things, even if you might have one judge or you know, that might not have liked your your uh score or your product, like it's not gonna ruin your score. So it's good. I like that having like more than just a few judges kind of evens it out. But um, yeah, there's a bit of strategy in it for sure. So yeah, sometimes like uh, you know, I've I've entered product that you know um has not done well and it's a lot of it's you know, it might be good color, it might, you know, be a variety that smells amazing, but it doesn't translate, you know, and that's like one of the biggest aspects. You gotta you gotta check every box, it's gotta look amazing, the the the texture, um, the melt quality, the the smell, everything and then and then translation and have like almost deeper levels of translation, I think, is like the ones that do very well. It's like so complex on the palette, um uh that you know it's uh it's hard to argue. It's even more in depth than the aroma.

SPEAKER_10 35:50

Well, there's a there's a rabbit hole we've never really gone down, and and you know, uh what's his name there? Uh Hitman Dougie's been going off on this wonderful DH show. I I don't know. I I I laugh at Doug and think he's hilarious. And so I've been enjoying the conversation. I've kind of been enjoying him stirring the pot. I'm not gonna lie. Um you know, it's definitely directed at us rosin boys more than anyone, but I'm right on, dude. So someone writes, listen, this is science. You guys are heating it up at 160 Fahrenheit, there's terp loss, there's degradation, you're not getting what you're getting. We're at the and he's going on the BHO. And so I'm sitting there, I'm like, good, good point, good point. And then I thought I wonder how he's inhaling his butane hash a lot. So I asked him, Well, how are you smoking your butane? He's like, I take dabs. I said, Oh, at what uh temperature? He says, Oh, around like four, four, four thirty. I said, 430 Fahrenheit. Do you know what happens at 430 Fahrenheit? Because he said it to me in the post. Do you know what happens at 160 Fahrenheit? Terp loss, degradation. I said, So when we talk about translation and the palate, it doesn't matter what you have in the jar, it matters what translates in my lungs and in my olfactory. Because when I burn the dab, there's going to be an enormous amount of degradation. There's going to be estrification of terpenes, there's going to be change, there's going to be loss, there's going to be all of these things. And I've gone very deep down this rabbit hole with Brian from DNA. What surface are you hitting it off of? Are you hitting it off of a titanium nail? Because the way the nail retains heat and releases heat is very destructive to volatile organic compounds. You can reduce that by moving into quartz and you can reduce it further by heading over to silicon carbide. And if you really want to hit the holy grail, you can get into sapphire dishes that cost like 500 bucks a pop. And the way they retain heat and release heat decides how they destroy or preserve volatile organic compounds as they're actually going into your mouth, not from opening a jar and smelling it, but from dabbing it on a banger and inhaling it into your lungs. And he never replied, unfortunately. I thought he would reply and go, fuck, that's a that's a good point, actually. Because regardless of how you're making your oil, if you're making your oil at minus 400 degrees Celsius, that's amazing. You're preserving more, you're uh, you know, more of what's there in the volatiles. But the bottom line is, is then it gets into a different conversation. What you preserved, how well does it translate in the dab? What's happening in the dab? Because the last I checked, a low temp dab is 400 degrees. Some people are hitting at five or six or seven. We used to hit glowy's at 900 to 1000. I'm certain hot knives in the 80s, those motherfuckers were probably 1200 degrees. Like the metal was almost dripping off the knife. We were hitting those so hot. And it's interesting, if you've ever hit hot resin, you can really taste the destruction in the profile. You can taste how the heat has, how the balance of preservation and destruction has as so heavy in destruction and so light in preservation that I think a lot of what we're trying to do in the grow room, in the processing room, and in the dab that we're inhaling into our lungs is raising preservation over destruction and raising preservation because preservation equals translation. It equals this is what's here to my nose. I mean, don't get me wrong. Oh, yeah, smell my jar. That's amazing. Does it translate when I take the dab? And no matter how much we heap things with rosin, and then I find a lot of rosin translates really, really well. And so that was my um my reply to uh Dougie the Hitman on his uh on his last rosin boys post.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

No, I think uh you got a fair point there. Yeah, no, I I I uh I enjoy the conversation that he's bringing up, but um, you know, again, I I think a lot of it's just starting material, you know, on both sides. It's like if you start with really great starting material, you can only make it worse in the hash making process. So you you can only you know uh have a negative effect on the representation of the product by making it into hash. And obviously, there's different ways to uh you know take that resin off the plant. And um, you know, even with the the last couple weeks, we keep our rooms very um uh cold. You know, we try to we ran like the uh the room that we just pulled down with the Gary and everything. That was like 68 to 70 degrees for like the last two to three weeks, again, to try to preserve the terpenes and way before we're even you know extracting them uh on the plant for the last few weeks so we're not losing some of these volatile compounds and then prepping very carefully um and getting them into the freezer, um, and you know, and then making sure to get that material off quickly and not have it in the water uh very long, um, and then right into the freeze dryer. And then uh from there, if you are making things into rosin, um, you know, uh now I did that for the Gary the first time I ever did the 5U bags, um, but we did triple 5U. Um, and I think that just helps with getting some more of the lipids and fats and any other contaminate, maybe just makes the you know the rosin a little bit uh probably raises and decreases the level of contaminants overall in the rosin. I've never had it tested of the 5U compared to 25U. Um, but we're we're pressing at lower um temperatures, and again, it's a balance of exposure to temperature and trying to get it off the press soon. But again, the whole process, even with making rosin, you're trying to clean the product by retaining terpenes. And I think it's proven with really good rosin. I mean, it's so loud, even if you did put it under heat, it's jumping out of the jar. Um, just like some of the really great uh butane extractions. Um uh again, like they're um, you know, there can be great butane extractions, but I do think representing like the plant and just isolating for trying to grow the best resin heads and then taking it all the way to the process that we're taking is a very like um objectively logical uh process that is uh you know, it's hard to, it's we're really not manipulating, we're just trying to isolate, and it's essentially chromatography, um, you know, where we're trying to get these resin glands off the material and get as many of them as we can and separate them by maturity and size uh and by minimizing contaminant at the same time.

SPEAKER_11 42:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Well, I I don't feel that we are and that's you know the art form and a lot with genetics and the process, but um, again, I I think it's a safer product overall comparatively to most products at BHO, just because you it's a much more complex process with BHO with the equipment and again the purging process to make sure that it's safe. And you just don't know who you're getting things from, at least with rosin, it it is really like a little bit more transparent, like it's it's very it's harder to adulter.

SPEAKER_10 43:16

I don't see the rosin guys cons concerning themselves with BHO the way the BHO guys seem to be very concerned with the rosin guys, so that there's definitely that. Um fuck, I had a couple of really good points, but I lost them. But um yeah, I wanted to actually mention in all of this while we're talking about all these different ways and the five micron bags, triple bagged, all this interesting stuff that Stu just mentioned. I am actually going to be in Colorado. Uh I'm gonna be in Michigan actually next week, uh, from the third till the ninth. So if anyone's in Lansing or Monroe or Detroit, uh I'd love to link up, love to see you guys out there. I will be heading to Colorado. On the 9th, and I'm going to be there till the 17th. And I'm pretty excited about a project that I'm doing there with LowTemp. They've got a very simple purpose, these guys. We want to teach you how to produce the highest quality solventless hash imaginable. Whether you're just starting out or have years of experience, our classes deliver invaluable insights, techniques, and expertise from the very best solventless hash makers in the world. They've been doing these cooled hash classes. I'm not sure how many years they've been pulling it off, but this month, I am the guest. I almost read legendary. I'm not legendary. I'm a humble servant of Jah. That's their words. I did not invent bubble bags either, but I definitely pioneered them. So good for that. What to expect? A deep dive into the history of ice water extraction, like you've never heard before. How to recognize and select full melt wash genetics for the highest quality results. Learn the fundamentals of preparations, washing, and collection techniques, a live full wash of material in the mini Osprey 2.0 walked through step by step. We'll enjoy a delicious lunch break to refuel and network with fellow attendees. There's going to be an in-depth breakdown of the best freeze-dryer settings for different applications, including a full explanation of sublimation. We're going to get into the considerations for lab space and environmental controls. We're going to do some live rosin pressing with myself, personal tips, tricks, and techniques. And then we'll do a comprehensive QA sessions to address all of your questions directly with me. And they're going to do a little raffle to win a secret and brand new low temp industries project product. So that's going to be pretty cool. And then we'll conclude the day with a group hangout network session. I'm still trying to figure out if I'm going to be able to throw a smaller event at the reserve the next day. I have to talk to my partner Kyle and really figure that out. The event date is May 16th, 2026. Doors open at 8 a.m. Class starts at 8:30 a.m. Sharp, not really. And we'll go till 6 p.m. The venue will be the Low Temp Industries building. I will say that the last event sold out in under 24 hours. They're only going to have 25 tickets available and they should probably disappear quickly. You can check out the link in the bio. You can get in touch with Low Temp. They're going to be putting up a video right away. So on their Instagram in the bio. I'll also put the bio tickets for sale in my bio. Once they go up, I don't know if we're going to put them up today or tomorrow or the next day. Your ticket purchase will include access to the one day solventless seminar, a gift bag from Low Temp and featured sponsors, and a catered lunch. And if you have questions, you can contact Low Temp or myself and we will get that to you. There's a whole course agenda, but I'm not going to share that right now. That will be something we share when you purchase your ticket. So yeah, sort of turn it into a commercial there. But I'm super, super excited to go to Colorado and do a hash course at the Low Temp Industries facility. And I yeah, just uh I'm excited to be in the room with like 25 incredible hash makers. You know, at first I was like, geez, what am I going to show these guys? I've been showing everyone everything for so long. And then I thought, you know what, I still have my perspective. I still have my stories. I still have a few tricks up my sleeve that I will be able to share. So if you want to raise your water extraction level to the next level, that's what we're going to be doing. And of course, uh in that course as well, I'm going to go over a little bit about making sure how to use the material that isn't ideal for faux melt or rosin. Uh, there's certainly still a value for those materials, and those values can really make it so your company can continue to survive. Uh, so you're not only um relying on podium products. I don't think we don't love podium products. What do we got here? The blue zoos? All right, I have a blue zoosh, just a dab left. I'm gonna rip that. Rip a dip. What were you puffing on, Caleb?

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Oh man.

SPEAKER_10 48:18

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

I actually don't know because they're blinded samples.

SPEAKER_05 48:24

Oh, nice!

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Yeah, for the Mendo Cup. But if I had to guess, that was something uh related to Discotti, maybe.

SPEAKER_10 48:34

Okay, probably an accurate guess. Probably an accurate guess. So no New York for you, correct, Caleb?

SPEAKER_01 48:39

You stayed on the West Coast and stayed on the West Coast, especially for 420. I was in Arcata and the uh the Humboldt Showdown had a little sesh and competition. And speaking of traditional hash, the traditional hash actually won like some dry sift hash balled up like that, ended up winning the melt um you know category.

SPEAKER_10 49:03

It must have been static, no?

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Yeah, it was static a little bit, but it was like you know, brown stuff versus six star, and I guess there were enough old heads there that they voted for the brown stuff instead.

SPEAKER_10 49:16

Well, this is this is why things are subjective, right? We we want the things that relate to us. I mean, I don't smoke a ton of the brown stuff, but I do, and I will give this challenge to any of you out there who are big smokers and love to get destroyed and ripped on dabs. Create a relationship with some traditional hash, even if it's your own traditional hash and you're not buying it, but just make a little farmer's grade. What I find is instead of a rocket ship to the moon, it's very much like a warm hug. It's just comforting, it's just a nice mellow. If you're just used to like the like right up to the top of the clouds, it's a it's a it's just not that. It's a very, very different experience that that is just not that. And there's value in it. Do I smoke it a lot? Probably less than 10% of what I smoke is traditional hash. But when I do, I'm always surprised by it. I'm always like, damn, like this is actually, I wish I could get an an island. You know what? This is a fucking great idea. This is a great idea. You get a group of hash makers and you bring them out to some place where they don't have access to their dabs or their melt. And you only give them access to nice traditional hash. And you just, it's you know, reality hash smoking show that lasts maybe a week or something. I bet you by the end of that week, you have a good percentage of those people who had revelations in regards to the relationship that they have with the plant and relationships that they have with hash. And I did it. I did this, I did this for 25 years and I just did this. And it was amazing. But what I noticed was when I did this, I forgot all these other people and I left them behind. And since that, what I've done is I've come back down to all those people, and those people make up a way bigger group than the people at the top that are like, I got the tapioca, full melt, six star, you know, whatever. Um, it's very, it's a very different group of people, but they're awesome people and they're amazing to hang out with. And traditional hashes, so you can sit and smoke like two grams of traditional hash, like blast out a chillum, smoke a couple of bowls, roll a snake. If you like hash holes, try rolling some of your lower grade bubble that doesn't bubble into a nice thick snake right in the middle of your joint and tell me that that isn't one of the most delicious joints that you've ever smoked. So I'm really like funny that for the longest time I was really carrying the flag of the full melt and the dry sift and the rosin. Don't get me wrong, I'll never stop carrying that flag. But I've also picked up another flag, which is, you know, these traditional hashes that I want people to have access to. Um this one's one of my favorites because it's uh it's a haze. This one is a haze ball, it's a little bit harder than the other ones um in the sense of like I I can I can I can push my finger like this, and you could see the indentation, but it's much, much stronger than if I use the exact same force on this one, it looks like that. So you can kind of see the difference. It's a thumbprint. Yeah. Oh shit, it's on my finger. I can't get it off, Caleb.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

So I love old school hash. I mean, that's you know, um, and also scissor hash is a special experience. I mean, that like when we used to wet trim, we don't wet trim anymore. But back in the day, like wet trimming and smoking that scissor hash off the scissors was some of the most like that was like always still to this day, some of the most special experiences that I would get, like tangerine haze, getting the scissor hash of that it was something special. So, yeah, I mean, I would love to, you know, uh kind of bring it back. I mean, I feel like a lot of our journeys, at least mine, it started with making water hash, and then then it was like BHO and solvents, and then I came back to pretty much strictly growing and and and making um you know my own hash, uh water hash in 20 like 19, 2020, when I got back to Colorado. Um so it's full circle, and then it's only bet, you know, it's only like proper to really get it back to like the traditional side because I agree there's a huge market uh and just like a lot of people who you know really want traditional has in general. Um, and it's a different experience that's like much uh you know uh more palatable for most people. Um uh just with the high and you know, the experience itself, it's uh that has such a unique uh flavor and and effect. Um so even being someone yeah who's focused on you know, obviously just trying to make the the highest end products, like it doesn't mean, you know, I again I think there is it's undervalued a lot of times. There's like a huge scale of the traditional hash market that you know when the market gets a little bit more educated, um, you know, there can be stuff that's really accessible to you know, stuff that's a little more aged and stuff as we know more of that uh of that process. And then um, you know, there's a whole new market. And uh yeah, it's part of the whole spectrum of what uh cannabis can offer. So again, I hate being dogmatic about any of these things, whether it's growing or like hash, um you know, we're still at the beginning of a lot of these uh of of everything, you know, and and to you know, it's really short-sighted to dog on other aspects or think your way is the way because there's many again, it's subjective, and then there's many different ways to express you know, I did it for years.

SPEAKER_10 55:23

I did it for years. My way was the way, it was the only way, and everyone needed to do it and extend, but it was also that was the passion that was driving me. So it worked out in a lot of people's favors. I would love to make some traditional hash with you next time I'm in Colorado, dude. It'd be really fun. Uh, you know, bust out some balls, be an honorary. I actually I actually pulled a little bit of that hash off for the first time. I pulled a tiny little bit off, and I'm going to smoke some through a hash hit. Nice, but I need to grab a lighter. So why don't you guys give me two minutes talk so it's not awkward and silent? Caleb Stewart. Stuart's walking away.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

He's like, Oh shit, didn't he tell me I had to give me two minutes?

SPEAKER_10 56:04

I'm gonna go to light.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

I was gonna see if I could find some traditional hash myself. I know I have some around here. What do you got there, Caleb?

SPEAKER_01 56:12

This is the bag I got at pre-seed day.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Nice. Oh sick.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

Shout out Mace in the chat.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Oh, yeah, yeah. Pull some things out. Let's see what you got.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

So is Mace in the chat? Mace is in the chat. Oh, well, first bag from the grab bag, Congo Kashmere from Hayes Valley. That's awesome. I'm growing the Congo Kashmiri Freak show. I bought those seeds at Ego Clash. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

We'll definitely send some seeds next year, Mace. Sorry about this year. I got way too busy. We usually try to send something in.

SPEAKER_10 56:47

Oh, yeah, that's what Mace needs. He needs seeds.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Bankroll Donnie.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

What is that?

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Bankroll Donnie's a barf breath and Flama Express by I'm maybe saying this wrong, Gratan Labs. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

See, I love just there's more people should breed, more people should put out seeds of just plants they like. Like you know, it's cool to just, you know, just put out, grow plants that you like, see some different things that you like between those plants, be creative. If you, you know, breed with plants that you enjoy, make seeds. Um, more people should do it.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Yeah. So crooked parry selections. They've been free seeds at multiple events that I've been at. So I've got this, you know, I think I've got maybe a different generation of these same seeds, possibly. This one's called Gym Shoes from Stink Face Seeds.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Nice.

SPEAKER_10 57:51

Yeah. This little hash is really nice.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

Oh, nice. Tastes good. Hash it.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

Yeah, it all starts with a seed. That's what's cool. It's a great thing that Mace is dealing with that, just spreading, you know, accessibility of seeds because that really gives every, you know, from there you can make all these things. That's always what I tell people, you know, as a breeder. And myself, like hash is great, but I always like to, you know, share in the seed and promote more people to grow their own and make their own hash. So yeah, we need more of those in the community. That's I'm actually going to a seed event in Denver that we're doing here at two o'clock. So I gotta get off here in about an hour. Nice. Where's the seed event? The secret down in uh it's at Dybolt Brewery in uh Denver. There should be a number of brands like local Colorado breeders.

SPEAKER_10 58:48

Um, maybe this is something we can do the reserve down the line, seed source and hash tools.

SPEAKER_00 58:55

I mean, it's definitely my favorite thing. I love gifting people seeds and sharing the yeah. I mean, it's um I'm a huge seed collector and breeder myself, and I mean it's my favorite aspect. I love making hash and growing for hash, but my you know, my ultimate dream is to just be able to just do breeding and selections and you know, have a nursery and all that. That's you know, hopefully in the future I'll be able to spend more time doing that. Um, you know, still making hash and everything, but uh it's kind of always been my side projects. But I try to do back cross projects and all the plants that I care about and I promote, you know, definitely want more folks to again just make more seeds. Don't don't be uh you know off put or scared to you know make make uh have some pollen and put it on some plants. We need to preserve the genetics that we have now.

SPEAKER_10 59:46

So I totally agree. And uh yeah, it's how we've gotten so many incredible flavors. It's how we've sort of stumbled. I like I like Chimera's um terminology, phenostumbling. I don't think that's I don't think it's insulting. The first time I heard it, I was like, oh, that's a little aggressive, and then and then I was like, you know what? That's actually like that is what we're doing. A lot of us are pheno stumbling, and that's okay. Most of my stumbling has led to some of my best accidents, which have left led to some of my best uh epiphanies. You were talking about L's the uh uh earlier today, Stuart. And I don't know if you can get W's without L's.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

You definitely gotta take some with breeding, growing, all these things. It's all a learning process. You just you know, you gotta keep keep out these things. That growing's an improvement process, making hash, like we're always improving. That's why it's good to be, you know, self-critical and you know, always like take notes and try do new things, don't get, you know, caught up in uh uh like I just switched my grow. I was mainly like a cocoa grower for my and doing like synganics and stuff on that side, and then I switched to soil and like after doing that for 10 years. And I had to take a jump back and like relearn, and I'm still learning a ton. Um, so you know, you know, always try new things, you know. It's like don't don't get caught up with stuff and and use it as motivation. Again, that's why I like going to all these shows and stuff and competitions. Is anything you'd get to be with peers that you know also share the same passion, um, and you get to show everybody your work, and it's really inspiring, you know, talking with other people who are in this space. Um, so that you know, just community in general is so important for um us to be connected. And it's something in Colorado, I think we've really come together as a community, and that has had a big effect on like, you know, us pushing the quality. Um, so it's all based on community helping each other, and you know, yeah, don't be scared to take L's and you know, try to ask for tips. A lot of people like myself, I try to be really open source because I'm learning all the time, and these things are infinitely variable. So it's like even if I tell you exactly what I do, like it's you're never gonna be able to fully replicate it. Again, I'm not gonna be able to fully replicate what I do fully every round. Totally. So we're all on this journey together with a dope plant to be able to, you know. That's why I love growing many different things. It's like you grow every different variety has its own optimal pathway. And each clone, you grow a clone like in different situations. I've grown my cowboy cush outdoors and in different states, and you know, under the sun up here at 9,200 feet, and then you you can see how one clone expresses differently. Um, there's just a ton to learn. So it's an exciting time, and it's cool that you know, we're uh our community again in Colorado is coming together and nationally, internationally, all these things are getting tied together because people are doing amazing stuff all over the world, really, with cannabis right now. It's uh, you know, just because we're in it, it's almost hard to comprehend where things are at. But I just gave uh someone seeds in New York, he's going back to Aruba, he's growing for hash in Aruba, and like, you know, there's some people in Colombia that were coming up every time. It's like it's very cool. Like when I've gone to Barcelona, I'm sure like I've met people from all over the world, you know, like Africa. Like it's it's cool. So again, exciting time to just be a part of everything, uh, you know, on a small scale locally, because that's where it all starts to get into be a part of stuff, you know. Um, you know, around the world with hash. It's uh it's exciting.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:35

I like that. Around the world with hash. I really do like that. I like the idea of the next time I do a legends, probably it'll be in Denver at the reserve, guaranteed. Um having a little uh traditional cup, having a little aspect of like, hey guys, like, you know, let's just make a little bit. It won't be some huge entry, but if everyone can show up with a little piece and you know, the people who appreciate that, I'll bring in some like, you know, some older school hash connoisseurs of that type of hash. It would be uh I just feel it's important that we maintain paying homage to the roots of hashish culture. Um, I don't want that to disappear. And that's uh, to be honest, that's what Legends was really about. It was more about paying homage to the history of hash and where we are today in the celebration and our appreciation as hashish aficionados. But there was always that aspect of the hubbly bubblys, the Afghan-style hash, the Lebanese style hash. Like, you know, I would love to do a legends of hash in Lebanon. I would love to do a legends of hash in Afghanistan. I would love to do a legends of hash in Morocco, you know, truly get these fucking hash makers out of their basements and out of their labs and into a hash-producing country. You know, to me, that would be the ultimate legends. Where we're there for three or four days, we're going, you know, we're fit, we're visiting some fields, we're visiting some hash production sites, we're we're sitting down and listening to traditional hash makers explain their processes instead of fucking scientists out of fucking Havid talking about whatever. You like that, Caleb? I fucking love the Boston accent, dude. I'm not gonna lie. Give me, uh, you know, uh, get what did the guy say? Uh, my buddy was telling me a story. It was in Gloucester, and he met this old dude that was like, he ordered some special drink meat, and then he said something like, He had just eaten a full meal, by the way. And his wife, he was gonna watch the game, so he told his wife she could take the car home. He's gonna watch the game. The guy just ate appetizers the whole nine yards. What do you want for dessert? It was a grand manier meat, and that chowder is fucking whispering to me. And he so he got a bowl of clam chowder as well. I don't know why, but though those are Martin Scorsese characters. Like that accent is incredible. I got along so well. It seemed the more hardcore someone was Boston, the more I got along with them. And I don't know if it's because where I grew up had a certain uh aggressive edge to it, but I gotta say, man, Boston was really fucking awesome. Nikan was cool. It was small, but it was very cool. And I will much like Colorado, it is amazing the cannabis culture that America has in just the few states that I've visited so far. And I haven't done Washington, Oregon, or Cali. I didn't do New York yet. I didn't, I haven't done some of the big, the big ones, but the ones that I've done, man, there's an amazing cannabis culture there. I'm uh it just the more I get into it, the more I realize holy shit, I'm gonna be spending a lot of time uh in the US. And I'm fucking here for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

It's really exciting going to new states. Like I've gone out to Missouri, that's a really cool emerging like scene and Michigan, and like it's I I've just been here from Colorado, where it's like we've been legal for a while, um, and some of the luster and like uh people like how stoked they are. You get you know, when you go to other states, you kind of forget about that. When you're like here, a lot of people are jaded and you know, have had maybe uh it's been legal for a while. So when you go to these new markets, you have all these new growers, people just getting into it too. It's uh it's really exciting. And Michigan, Maine has one of the coolest scenes, especially for um you know, being able to be a caregiver and a small producer and have a small farm and be able to, you know, very low barrier of entry. So it's amazing all over the country how many cool you know pockets there are of uh where you know there's independent thriving scenes, you know, growers, new growers, people you know, starting to breed, new hash makers. Um, you know, yeah. Shout out to like Jay Jay Funk, he's uh from um uh Missouri. He's been like winning and doing very well at these hash comps. He's from St. Louis and he's also a breeder. Um, so you know, I mean there's I'll have to link up with him when I'm in Missouri because that one's coming up.

SPEAKER_10 1:08:21

I've signed up Missouri, and that's I got a great partner there, and he's really well connected. And so my whole idea in in all of this is to link with the bubble ambassadors. That's what I call you guys, you know, the guys that have taken this to the highest level are ambassadors of bubble. They're they're they're they're bringing and showing what can be done. Uh, and it is a beautiful thing. I mean, I show rosin to people, beautiful rosin, to people that don't even smoke, and they'll legitimately go, Oh wow! Like, you know, and they don't even know why they're doing it. It's very natural, you know. Like I always look for what I call the eyebrow raise. I want to see those eyebrows go up a little bit, and that was really uh what I used to call pulling the 73 micron bag. You know, when I first started showing people water hash and I'd pull the 73 bag because there was only like a couple bags, like three bags, it go from a 220, and then the first real bag you'd pull was like a 73, and I'd pull that 73, and there'd just be a log of 190 and 160 and everything else mixed in with it, but it looked incredible, and people just couldn't wrap their heads around it that you could get that much resin off of that small of an amount of a plant in that easy of a process, you know. When you find out it's been around for so long. When when I discovered water extraction and I really started thinking about it, like almost almost on a philosophical level, and and it even was more so when Skunk Man Sam showed me how to do the static tech in his apartment in Amsterdam. When he showed me that, that was a secondary one where I was like, uh, holy fuck, there are protected secrets in this world that if you knew them, they would change your life. They would change, and I'm quite certain those exist uh in so many different levels in regards to energy and how we access energy in regards to the production of food, in regards to human beings and how we communicate. There are so many different manipulations that keep us from what I would call, you know, universal shifting knowledge. My universe shifted when I was able to take shitty far, you know what I was doing to make full mouth bubble or full mouth drive sift? I was carding the screen. I was close, and D420K got even closer. And then Mies and some others, you know, because this is how it happened. Sam asked me not to share the process because so many people had monetized everything that he had done. And at the time when he finally showed me, um, I don't think he was just ready for the world to see it. And I respected that. So I was using a card and I was rubbing the card over the screen, and it would break and push the contaminants through. And then on top of the screen, I would be left with full melt bubble, uh, full melt dry sift. And there's a video from maybe 2014 of Johnny and I making dry sift, and it's a great fucking video. Uh, maybe I'll show it later in the show. Uh, where he comes over to my house and he shows me dry sift and I put it under the microscope and show him, dude, this is just the dirtiest shit, farmer's grade bullshit. And he was kind of like, fuck, you know, like I kind of John taught me empathy because you know, sometimes I can just be a little harsh and a little, you know. So he comes over, I crush him, he's like, thinks his sift's nice. And I'm like, dude, that's basically like pulled out of the toilet. And uh we card together for 45 minutes. And the one beautiful thing about John is John can accept a harsh critique, learn from it, listen, and execute a higher uh, you know, experience. And so I love that about John. And I've also learned that from John in my own way, because there's nobody that's above being able to become a better person from doing exactly what Johnny fucking B does in that sense. He learns from his mistakes, he he posts his mistakes publicly. He'll make the biggest fucking mistake, and then when everyone else is, you know, brushing it under the carpet, John will just be like, I'm gonna make 10 videos about this. Yeah, I'm gonna show everyone how I got mites and mildew and fucking how I fucked this up and fucked that up. And you know, people relate to that, dude. You don't have to go on the internet and pretend you're fucking perfect, Instagram influencer, and everything's great. The meantime, you're fucking suicidal. You know, be authentic. And Johnny B is absolutely fucking authentic. Now, where was I going with this? I don't know. Remind me, Caleb. What was when why did I bring this up?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:13

Sure. I remember talking about legends of Hashish in the country. That was a long time ago. And then going to Lebanon.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:24

I brought up Johnny B for a very specific reason. It'll come back to me. I'm I'm very dabbed out.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:30

Johnny B is a real for teaching and showing his mistakes, and you know it was right before that.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:37

The point was right before that. But yes, that is also a very good point. I was talking about him teaching me.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:44

That's important.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:45

Yeah, yeah, it is very important. But um, yeah, we'll we'll get back to that one. Shout out to Johnny B. Puff Puff Pass. Uh, that last dab of the um blue Zushi was really good. I don't know if I told this story already. I probably did, but I'm gonna again, then maybe I'll share that Johnny B dry sif video, and that will probably bring it around full circle to what I was talking about. Okay, so not the um just the ones with the yellow stickers. So I'm on Whistler Mountain, I'm at the top of Cap Skinner, uh, on Black Home. Sorry, I'm not on Whistler, I'm on the top of Black Home Mountain next to Whistler Mountain. And I hear Mark, Mark, are you leaving? And I'm with my wife and my son, and we're about to drop in to snowboard down to our vehicle and bounce for the day. And this is my buddy Devin. And I guess I lent Devin a rosin press like a year ago. I totally spaced it. It was like one of those Helix pros from uh from Pure Pressure. It's like a eight-ton or something, I don't know, 10 ton, whatever. Uh, so he'd been, you know, he'd been grown outdoors and making hash. And I guess it took him a couple of times, you know, the first time didn't work out as well. Well, this was now after the second time. And uh he gave me all these jars, and I will be honest, like every single one of them, like packed or anything. I think he put a gram in each one or something, but every single one of them looked, you know, on the lines of something like that. They were all like very beautifully colored, some were super greasy, some were a little drier. I personally love dry rosin. It's easy for me to roll up with my fingers and just throw into bangers and into like Puffcos and stuff, especially when I'm traveling. But he gave me six of these fucking jars on the top of Black Hole Mountain next to Cat Skinner. Um, I just thought that's gotta be the best place in the world to give someone jars. Like, Mark, Mark, is that you? Hey, Mark. And then he just gives me jars. And then my son, my 11-year-old son, is like, he's like, What's that, dad? And I'm like, Oh, this is like rosin, you know, this is Devin's work. He grew the the plants, he made the hash, and now he's he's like, Wow, that's cool. And my wife looks at me and she's like, Only you, only you are getting given jars on the top of Black Home Mountain. She's like, I guarantee you, no one else today was given jars like that, you know, like because you guys know what Devin had to go through. Okay, Devin is an he's an amazing friend of mine. If you ever come to Whistler and you want to snowboard, he knows the mountain like the back of his hand. He was snowboarding on that mountain at like 20 years old, him and his brother Ethan and his other brother Ryan, the Bagley brothers, these motherfuckers will get 192 days a season on Whistler Mountain. So, first of all, that is absolutely psychotic. They're so hardcore, they would hike up the top of Whistler Mountain the day before it opens, and they would sleep in the cabin on the top of Peak Mountain, uh, the the the lifties cabin up there at the top of uh peak uh of the of the run of the chairlift. And so they would climb up the mountain. Just to give you an idea, it's a five and a half hour hike through snow to get to the top of the peak mountain. And then they'd come down while everyone was standing in line. They would all watch these guys cutting like fresh lines. So 192 days a year, every day they'd break bones and they'd still ride. Oh, I broke my collarbone, don't worry, I'm still riding. Oh, I fucked up my knee, but I got some special brace, so I can still at least get a couple of runs out. They would have to go to the momentum ski camp at the end of the season and get those 12 days because there was only 180 days available in the season. And so they were just really wild guys. Dev got into, you know, black legal growing, kind of got involved with some legal grows, had some difficulty, did his own, you know, some of his other owners, helped people with outdoors, but now he's involved with a really good group. They're finally make they're finally growing really good flower, they made really good hash, and he wants my opinion. And I'm like, dude, I've smoked every one of these and they're all absolutely wonderful. I can't even tell you the pride that I'm beaming with uh for when I see someone take up this journey, uh I always feel their pain because if you give up because of the pain, you don't get to the reward, which I'm pretty sure translates to almost anything that you do in life. Uh, but if you push through and you get the revelations and the epiphanies, it is an absolute joy uh to come out the other uh the other side. And it's only like that because of the time that you spend in that uh that pressurized tube of like not being where you want to be. Oh, think about that. Think about that. Um yeah, I want to shout out Thomas from Grandmaster LED. I had a great week with him and Jeremy at the Grandmaster LED booth. We met so many cool growers that came in. Thomas has been doing a YouTube channel for a very long time, Grandmaster Level. He had hundreds, if not over a thousand videos on there at one point in time, had a very good audience, very similar to the audience that uh that I have on YouTube. And so it was really nice to be at his booth and see so many people come up that have watched his videos, you know, that that that have really been paying attention to this guy's videos. And he's that guy that just wants you to grow better weed, you know, and figure out a way where he can affect it beyond knowledge. So the lights that he has produced are just like I was laughing at them. I don't my sales pitch for his lights is I go, this guy's a total fucking psychopath. He's completely over-engineered his fucking lights. It's his one light has 6,900 diodes. Like if you grow indoors and you're not growing with Grandmaster LEDs, you're just insane. And even Thomas is like, how do I convince people that paying the same amount of money for this? And then he's got a big backdrop that shows basically the spectrum that 90% of the LED companies sell. And then he's got another thing next to it that's literally like 12 feet by 10 feet, and it's 60 spectrums, which are all the spectrums that are in the light he's selling for basically the same price as the light that has a single spectrum. And I was just like, yeah, that's a weird trip to not really realize that, like you don't have to change anything else in your room, Stuart. And you can change the entire the entirety of the plant, the volatile organic profile, the structure, the color, the cannabinoid expression. I I've never seen anything like it. Now I will say that it can get to a level where the light becomes an F1 car, and you just can't give the car keys to anyone to an F1 car because they'll smash it into a wall and die. And so that's what they would do to their garden. So he simplified it and he made one with like 12. And, you know, he's got the one I have has 500 spectrums. That's the F1 car. Sure, you could discover and figure things out the same way you're searching genetics right now, Stuart. I want you to start thinking about searching spectrums. And not only like in a real black and white way, I want you to go into the gray and understand that when you're searching for your spectrum, what you're actually searching for is a spectrum recipe from blue in the morning to the far red 730 nanometer that closes the stomata of the plant up much quicker, which is what we call magic hour in the sun. When the sun goes down and you get that orangey hue, 730 nanometers, telling all the stomatas to close up for the evening. You save a lot of time in that. The blue, keeping the keeping your plants, you know, down. Maybe some canopy is off. You turn the the red on on that one and you get a little bit of stretch to even out the can. All these different ways that you can learn about I don't want to say manipulating, but guiding, guiding the plant with a spectrum the same way the terroir does. Yes, it's complicated, yes, it's crazy, but you're fucking nerding out on this shit as deep as anyone could possibly nerd out on this shit already. Do you like the idea?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

Oh, yeah. No, I mean, it's that's where, and you know, also just to speak to like I'm at 9,000 feet here, so the sun is incredible. I put out my plants every year in my greenhouse, and it's kind of my own special way to regen. So UV, all these things are key that you know, any way that you can mimic. And just like you're saying, there's target parts of the spectrum uh, you know, that uh predispose certain aspects of growth, whether that's stretch or increasing, um, you know, uh getting different levels of blue light. I mean, we just saw this uh from like the old days, especially of like HPS and like the super blue metal halides and ceramics. Um, you know, that had some of the UV, you'd see uh, you know, a huge difference of the structure of the plants, the amount of resin and terpene production. That's why we used to like to flower under 315 or uh 630 ceramic metal halides, or at least integrate that in. So, again, we're learning so much with the LEDs. And uh I agree a lot of times they are driving with F1s uh because if everything isn't in line, you can't push LEDs. I mean, I had to completely change a lot of aspects, and you know, your environment has to be perfect to be able to really push high PPFD. And then again, you want to be doing that at certain times with certain spectrums and target uh, you know, the plant to be able to, and again, different genetics are gonna offer different pathways of uh, you know, a pure Afghan and something like our Bubba, and then something like the sour are gonna be two completely different optimal pathways, too, as far as light is concerned.

SPEAKER_10 1:23:59

These are the same cuts, same cuts, same room, same feeding schedule, same everything, except uh a different spectrum coming out of the light.

SPEAKER_11 1:24:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_10 1:24:13

Different I anthocyanin production and um you know the sunrise, sunset, detox cycles, like all these things are yeah, I know it's work, and and again, UV, exactly, dude. It's uh you know, it's it's fun working with Thomas because he never stops thinking about this shit, like ever. So he'll like design his light, he'll be like, okay, this is perfect, and then he'll be like, dude, I just had like a revelation, like a dream the other night. Like, I we have to change everything, and so he's just his his obsession with making things better is so driven by wanting everyone to do better and not I need to make millions of dollars, like it's to the point of almost like he's almost like sick. Do you know what I mean? Like the guy, the guy is just like he won't stop. And for me, I just get to benefit because I grab a couple of lights, I throw them in a tent, and then I get to play around and see how these and get a get an understanding of light spectrums because it is a deep rabbit hole that uh, you know, I always want to get more into it, but I the audience is never really prepared for that conversation when you get all the light sort of folks involved. Lights are like seeds, lights are like um there's just there's certain aspects, seed and lights in particular, where uh there's so many bad seeds and there's so many bad lights. There's so many seedy seed sellers, and there's so many seedy light sellers. So that's this real success pool to to to to fuck around in. And you know what uh the nature guy, the nature of things, David Suzuki said, I met him years ago uh at a at a talk, and he was saying that when he started his TV show, The Nature of Things, and his Nature of Things show was kind of like a version of like uh, you know, not David Attenborough's Earth, but sort of a similar David Attenborough guy. He's a Japanese dude, David Suzuki's fucking, you know, he's an environmentalist, pretty, pretty cool dude back in the day. Uh, and just kind of talking, he was the Canadian version of like our our Earth series, like, and so he said while he was talking, you know, when I started the nature of things, I was going to be a shining diamond. Uh, and what I quickly learned is that when you throw a diamond into a cesspool, it does quickly take on the appearance of everything else that's in the cesspool. And that's what I was kind of talking about at Nikan, being in a booth and looking like everyone else. And yeah, we can talk and we can explain things, and people are like, wow, you guys really know what you're talking about. And I'm like, you know what, dude? I bet you if you go to that other light company, they got a guy there that knows what he's talking about, and he could impress you with his words and he could make you so it's like it becomes this difficult thing where, like, how do people decipher what's real and what's complete and total bullshit? I just wish the world was like unbelievably transparent, where we were like, yeah, like our lights are super cheap and they're garbage and they're just gonna like probably die eventually, but they're super cheap. And then people could be like, you know what? I'm gonna go for that. That seems reasonable. And then we would be like, our lights are super expensive, but they're basically gonna outlive you and they're gonna fucking, you're gonna get like four and a half pounds per light. And then people might be like, you know what? I'm gonna pay for those. I just wish for a day, because I also find this the best salespeople are sociopaths, which means they're tricking you into buying the thing they're buying. You're buying, not necessarily. And then, so that's another cesspool of like, how do you turn someone on to knowledge and information without sounding like a commercial or without Sounding like the rest or looking like the rest of the cesspool. So this is the dichotomy that I found myself. You know, Thomas, once again, what a cool guy. I had all my jars out the entire time. No one else at that event did I see puffing at their table. We were smashing dabs the entire time. Not once did Thomas come over to me and be like, dude, what the fuck are you doing? Like, like, come on, like, we gotta, you know. So I appreciate the realness of Thomas Gibson and the Grandmaster LEDs. And uh, it was a really fun trip. Definitely look forward to going back to Boston in the near future. Shout out to Colin, Vessel Life Sciences, who was a great host. He brought me all my Puffcos and he gave me my first jar when I was there. Uh, we went out for lots of good dinners. We he introduced me to this guy, Brett, who I like to call Brett Maniac. Had an absolute beautiful dinner with uh with him and this guy, Ryan, a grower in New York, and myself. Uh, and uh Colin was there. Oh, this professional baseball, retired baseball player Adam Russell was there. Just really good conversation, really good people. Um, yeah, it was a good event. Boston is beautiful, you know, going down by into the north end and the harbor, the wharf there is really nice. Uh, shout out to Max uh and Tony. I saw Tony Verzura took us out for dinner at Max's restaurant. This guy called Catch of the Day, right on the wharf, lobster and shrimp and pasta, blah squid ink pastas, like just delicious, delicious food, delicious dabs, good times, um, decent weather, you know, not like too cold or anything. Pretty much walked everywhere, stayed at a nice close hotel to the venue. I like the idea of seeing different states as well, Stu. I really do. There's such unique groups of people. I want to get to Maine next time. I missed Brian from Best Friend Farms. He came down and we never linked up, unfortunately. So sorry about that, Brian. Hopefully, we see you today. I did send him the link. I don't want to forget to uh shout out anyone else, but I will say that the two guys, there was a guy who's extremely helpful. He ended up giving me q tips at one point in time. He got me some roaches. I want to shout out these two homies, and I told them when I took the picture, I'm gonna put that picture on Hash Church. These two dudes are from Bostica, okay? They run they it's like a grow or a dispensary. Sorry if I'm getting that wrong, but um, yeah, shout out to you homies, dude. You guys were good dudes. Um yeah, there was a lot of great people there. I I gotta say.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:44

Um you should try to come out uh to Maine in uh I think it's August 21st, 22nd for Culture Cup. Um I think that's I've never been out to Maine. I'm we're planning on going up there. Will that be in like Portland or uh I'm not 100% sure, but I think uh you fly into Portland, it's pretty close. They they're they do it pretty close to uh the airport there. But yeah, that's that'll be the first time I'm making my way up there. But obviously, you know, uh a good place. We're gonna also be vending seeds and stuff, too. So um yeah, that should be a cool, cool scene. That's one of the coolest gatherings and cups and um and in the scene for sure. Maybe a good one for me.

SPEAKER_10 1:31:27

Maybe a good one for me to find my main bubble man brand partners. Maybe a good one for that. I'll have to check it out. Um, yeah, lots of travel. Next week is Michigan. I'm super stoked to go see Papa Sift, my hash maker. I'm gonna be in the lab with him for the first time. We're gonna be busting out a bunch of traditional hash and bubble hash and rosin and hash hits, and I'm gonna go there and make some pure hash joints for them. I'm gonna meet my sales team at Yield Distro and drive around the state and go meet people and fucking, yeah, it's just gonna be good, man. Give away a bunch of products, smoke a bunch of hash and and bounce from Michigan, not even come home and go right to the reserve in Denver. So hopefully we have a bunch of good sessions there, Stu. Uh, you and Jack are welcome to come by anytime there. And uh yeah, we'll have to figure it out with um, I'm gonna talk to Kyle about potentially building a cup, like a room somewhere with even if the room just had like two or three beds. I love the idea of offering a place to our brethren that are coming in from uh maybe an hour uh to two hours away, you know, and then maybe the night gets late and it's like you know, one in the morning and you don't want to drive. It's like, ah, you know what, mountains, snow, like just fucking stay overnight type of thing. So we'll see how that goes. Uh talking to him about that. He seems pretty reasonable about everything. Uh, he just wants to make the reserve awesome. Uh, every day it gets awesomer. I don't know if you saw they put the Chris Dyer up uh that Adam uh Dunn shout out to Adam Dunn. I want to have Adam Dunn on the show here soon. I want to do a deep dive interview with Adam Dunn. Uh, I think he's got the best stories in the biz. He's been around longer than I have. Uh, he linked up with Dave and those guys super early, but there's the Chris Dyer that we put up at the um like, is that not insane? Look at that.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:21

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:22

What the fuck, dude? It's 16 feet long and eight feet tall. Just to give you an idea, like, there's in front of it. There's at yeah, yeah, it's a boom box. Whoa, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:37

Shout out to the press club.

SPEAKER_10 1:33:41

I love that little thing. Yeah, Adam is the man. What's up, Dred Smokes Weed? There's my one of my partners, awesome grower in Illinois with Redemption Botanicals. Shout out to those guys. I feel like they just like won something recently. Maybe you could mention that, Dredd. I I saw you guys pull like a third or a second or something. Uh Dredd grows phenomenal weed. Have you met Dred Stewart?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:04

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_10 1:34:05

Oh, what is the brand? We got to make that. It's Redemption's Botanical, but dread is dread is beyond that. He's he was grown for DNA back in the day. He was growing for Ernie and Tony at uh River Rock in Colorado. I think he worked maybe with Scott. He'd be able to say better than I, but he's he's he's a really good grower. Uh yeah, the Billy's. I knew it. It was the billies. Yeah, they won third at the billies uh for Redemption Botanical. So shout out to those guys, my partners. We're hoping on releasing some traditional hash in Illinois this summer. So we'll see if that uh I know we've got hash hits coming soon, and hopefully eventually we'll put a few jars of melt and a few jars of rosin. I'd love to put my name on Dred's work at the highest level, obviously. Uh, that's a great Billy's win, dude. Yeah, definitely congratulations to the whole team over there. Good for you guys. Yes, exactly. You did work with Scott. You know, I've known everyone for so long that it's all just convoluted, and I don't know how far each person's history, my history with Scott, goes back to '99 on Overgrow when he was the moonshine man, and I sold him bubble bags and taught him how to make hash. So that uh I never know how how many people how far people go back. Bought a print from Chris Dyer off eBay in 2004. Super cool seeing how much he's blown up. Yeah, that's that is true, Dank Huffer. So much cool things going on. Oh, there's Katie. There's Katie. I'll see Katie when I'm at the reserve. She's a good friend of Adam's and Kyle's. She's always at the reserve as well. She's awesome. Yeah, B Man redemption hash. I like the sound of that. I'm just reading the chat right now. I kind of have been ignoring them for the last uh hour or so. Uh Boro Josh, we're getting old, brother. When I see pictures of myself, I feel super young, like 25 or whatever. But when I see pictures of myself, my hair looks silver, especially if there's like a flash or something. I'll be like, I'll be like, my hair's not silver, it looks black or brown, doesn't it? Then like a flash will happen and my whole head will look silver, and I'll be like, God damn, getting old is trippy. Because really, when you say like you're looking older, really what that is, if you break it down, is it's degradation. It's like, oh wow, you're getting closer to death. You know, like you see like really old people, and it's like, holy shit, like you are melting, you are basically melting, and that's what's happening. It's uh it's an interesting thing. You get out of your 30s and 40s, you get into your 50s, and uh you absolutely just uh start melting. So I'm here for it. I want to melt into my hundreds, I want fucking technology to keep me alive till I'm 150. I'll just be fucking in a simulation making hash. Like, god damn, this hash smells so good. Imagine if every time we create a new simulation, everything gets better. You know, I I talk about this all the time because someone in Boston was telling me that we were in a simulation. And I said, Okay, so if we're in a simulation and we're currently trying to create like the Oculus, right? The AI. So we're trying to create this other simulation while we're in a simulation. I asked him, How far back do you think it goes? Like, how many times have we done this fractal of creating the simulation? Like, are there millions of them? Are there dozens? Is it thousands? Because that is a philosophical question that melts my head more than my eternally aging body. 28 here and feeling old as fuck, dude. Skate skate ordy. Let me tell you, you are not old, you shouldn't feel old. Uh, you should start like moving and making sure that you uh that you don't feel old. I'm 53, I feel fucking great. I feel great. Very little pain, pain in my body, happy to work, happy to lift, happy to like if I'm at your house and you're like, hey man, do you mind moving a couch? I will be the last motherfucker to go, oh, actually, uh, I got this knee thing going on. Actually, I don't, I don't, you know, or my or it's my shoulder. I got a shoulder thing. I just I don't know what it is, but I I'm not gonna be able to, dude. I'm the first guy that will move all your shit with you. We got to spend eight hours doing it. Let's fucking do it. 750 pounds, no problem, dude. We'll hand buck that shit. Um, I did it at the event. We pulled up on the event, we had 19 boxes full of fucking LED lights and like it was 750 pounds. And in Boston, there's a very strong control from the Teamsters union. And so anything that goes in off the loading dock, but into the front door, anything that goes in there is has to be on only two wheels. If it's on four wheels, a teamster has to push it, or a union person has to push it. So we had these giant things, and me and my partners roll up, and they're like, No, you can't come in. And I was just like, Fuck it, let's carry them. And these guys looked at me like I was in, they were just like, What are you talking about? I said, We'll just carry them, dude. It's just we'll walk through, we'll get on the elevator, we'll go, and then we'll walk around to the booth. And they were just like, I don't want to. It's like, no problem, I'll do it. Just started bucking, you know, 750 pounds of boxes. I did cheat when I got up to the second floor because there were chairs everywhere stacked on wheels. So I took all the chairs off one of the wheels and turned it into a dolly and loaded it up with boxes.

SPEAKER_09 1:39:39

How's it going, Edgar? Yo, what up, Marcus? How you doing, brother?

SPEAKER_10 1:39:42

Ah, fuck, I'm doing pretty good, dude. I just uh got back from Boston. You ever been out there?

SPEAKER_08 1:39:46

Yeah, I've been to the Boston Freedom Rally one time, and then I went to Nekan one time too.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:52

I feel like you would get along with people from Boston too. Do you like people from Boston?

SPEAKER_09 1:39:57

Uh, I don't not like them like uh I like their uh the fucking Duncan, you know, type of attitude, you know.

SPEAKER_10 1:40:03

That's what I'm saying, dude. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_09 1:40:05

Yeah, they they they call it like it is type of guys, you know, they're a little rough on the edges.

SPEAKER_10 1:40:09

Dude, I love that shit. Listen, the ones I enjoyed the most were the Teamsters setting up all the of the on the day of setup with the booths and the carpets and stuff, I could have listened to those guys for hours, just like just basically, you know, like dudes tell okay, yeah, move the carpet over the head and get I was just like, these guys are I just want to fucking hang out with these guys, and not in the like I'm laughing at you way, I'm just like I'm enamored by the accent. And the more you travel away, my buddy was telling me you can get into zones where the accent is absolutely fucking phenomenal. So I've always appreciated accents. Uh, I haven't been to Boston for 32 years, and the last time I went, I was really just driving through from UMass to Bangor, Maine, to see from one fish show to another. I was just on tour, it was 94. It was a very long time ago.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:02

I was two years old. Crazy. That's a while back. Two years old? I was two in '94. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:11

92, hey. Yeah, that's what's up, dude. You were two, you were fucking sucking on your mom's teeth, and I was fucking tripping balls.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:21

100%.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:24

Well, that's what's cool about life, man. There's always there's just tons of people who have done everything that we're doing kind of before we did it.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:31

100%.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:32

We're definitely living in a fractal. Everyone wants to call it a simulation. I think it's a fractal. Self-consuming fractal. You puffing on today.

SPEAKER_09 1:41:43

I think I went to the to an event yesterday and I ran into Bobby Trill. He gave me some um New York City haze. It smells like uh like Piff, you know, Cuban black type strain, sandalwood, like incense myrrh. And then I went to Surge Cannabis's yesterday, and I did a pollination at his spot, and he gave me one of his collabs he did with Trichrome Tortoise, and it's the pineapple cooler. Dude, that one smells real nice.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:09

Just pulling out the fire.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:14

I always joke. All my best friends are the best hash makers, you know. I always joke.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:18

Yeah, yeah. It's not really a joke, actually. It's kind of a statement. No doubt. I feel you. I feel you. I'm happy with that. You know, we all do our thing to affect, you know, how we can affect that community to, you know, raising the bar and finding that next level, whatever that is. I'm convinced at this point we really need to figure out reading for specific novel terpenes and volatile organic compounds because the phenos stumbling is amazing. We've got all the best shit that we've got, and it's like unbelievable. I just want to see a second pathway of figuring out some very specific, simple, not overly complicated, like fucking, you got to have two million dollars, but ways to access those genes where you really deep dive. I mean, it might even be as simple around the corner as these genomic labs and just giving little little bits of tissue to genomic labs and them just running it and finding the gene synthase for a novel terpene or cannabinoid, and then boom. Imagine as a breeder, Edgar, being able to order material based on specific things that you're looking for, like a like a like a volatile organic compound. You're like, I'm really looking for this flavor. It's like, well, the genome has spit out these 42 that all contain the gene synthase. 31 of them are switched on, so those will probably be easier to breed in. And then just because I don't pretend to understand it. I'm not a dummy, but I'm not a fucking geneticist breeder, whatever you want to call it. I'm not even a pollen chucker. I've really never engaged in creating life out of cannabis. I appreciate it on all levels, like absolutely from the like you know, bag seed. Bagseed back in the day, the idea of like the lottery seed that you get out of the bag and every with chem 91, and you look at all the stories of the bag seed legends that um clearly that's most of the legends are from bag seed, which is crazy. Because that's because nobody was doing anything different. Of course, that's where they came from. What I'm saying is, is there a way for us to change it ever so slightly to increase our probability? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:46

Yeah, I mean, it's tough because none of the varieties are really breed true, and you really have to test and do uh test crosses and see how things interbreed together, especially to get target traits, like you know, terpenoline, for example, doesn't generally wash that gene pool. Um, and whether that's the nature of just the terpene or the nature of the structure of the trichome, it's like, you know, again, there's uh it's hard if we got to study more and try to isolate these different traits. And again, we still can do like uh and I it's important to try to do true breeding lines and to inbreed your own parentage so you can actually like make true F1s. But I think part of the amazing part of our genome is like the randomness that exists in in uh cannabis. I'm sure Edgar can speak to this too, because like I actually think it's cool that it's you know, I prefer I think people should pollen chucks because like the more infinite variables that are out there and in crosses just gives us more options to look through as opposed to killing things off. That's why it is uh important sometimes to just do open pollinations and to not kill off even males that you think are weak because they could uh you know pass on, and same with females, they could pass on other traits that we're not sure of, and and we need to maintain diversity. And then there's actual goal, goal breeding, you know, and directive tray breeding, which is what you're talking about. So it's like really breeding is there's two important aspects opening up and preserving the genome, and then also like isolating things down, but not at the hindrance of like diversity, and that's the trick. You gotta you gotta do kind of do both simultaneous.

SPEAKER_09 1:46:31

And I think part of the diversity is that everyone does it different too, right? Like you got the dude that hyper focuses on sours, you know. I only breed with sours or things that are close to that, and then you got my crazy ass doing anything and everything, you know, and then you got the guy that does hashers, you know. So, like that that that's I think people get caught up like, oh, like bottleneck in the gene pool. It's like, nah, dude, everyone's doing everything at the same time, like like you just gotta know where to look and who's your crowd, you know. Like, there's people doing Tom Hill all the way to Toad and Runs, like what oh, even land races, we could go beyond Tom Hill, like there's everything in between, you know.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:09

I just think there's so many different ways to do it, and I think that the br there's like you said, everything's going on on all at once, and there's nothing wrong with pollen chucking. I think that you can like pollen chucking is like making bubble. When I first started making bubble, I was using like two or three bags, you know. Then maybe true breeding is using five or six bags where you can create a stable genetic for a large facility that's not going to like mutate, and you know, like there is something to be said for genetics and the strength and the stability of said genetics. You know, there's like there's a reason why every other clonally produced plant on a mass scale, like Driscolls, you think Driscolls is fucking with like 4,000 different strawberry cultivars? I can promise you they aren't, yet they sell about 10 billion strawberry plantlets annually, just out of like a small um farm in Colorado, actually, a tissue culture lab. So I just think that there's tools available in breeding that don't involve being overly complicated that even the pollen chucker could acquire. And it would just be like learning a new freeze-dryer tip or a new, like, oh, I got a 90 U bag. I never had a 90 U bag before. It's like, well, you didn't really change the process much, but you're you're you're upping what you if we're always trying to up what we're doing, then that has to be in all aspects. It has to be whether we're pollen chucking, whether we're making hash, what whatever it is we're doing, we just want to like, and I mean, personally, I fucking love what you do, Edgar. It's one of the reasons I invite you on Hash Church all the time. I'm not someone that thinks things need to be done a certain way. And because I know that things can be done almost anyway. And plus, I love when people tell me I can't do something a certain way because then I'm absolutely gonna fucking do it that way, just to show that 100% big shout out to Edgar for what he's done for the seed game.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:12

Oh honestly, making things accessible and showing that you can breed anywhere and to like, yeah, that's dude.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:19

Growing 20 footers in Compton is fucking insane. That is insane. This guy's got fucking chickens running around. I'm like, there's no way he's in Compton. Pulls back. I'm like, he is in Compton.

SPEAKER_09 1:49:32

I love it, dude. Yeah, shout out Miners Melt, Stewart's good, good people. Uh, I seen Caleb at Free Seed Day. Shout out, Caleb. Good people, too, man.

SPEAKER_10 1:49:40

Yeah, that's all we want to do is just join, get, get together with some good people, smoke some bowls and some joints uh on a Sunday afternoon. Even though it's not afternoon yet, it's 10 47. It's pre noon.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:53

What projects are you working on, Edgar?

SPEAKER_09 1:49:56

Well, I just wrapped up, uh I wrapped up a Starburst uh F2. That I worked into F3, found a male and hit it to everything, you know. So I wrapped up that one and then I pivoted to a chop F2 male. And then I did a that's like my third time revisiting him. Did a quick one and then I uh built this uh honey banana Tolymon Starburst and then I crossed that into OZK. I got a male from that. I've been hitting it to a couple things, and uh right now I'm depping like three beds, and I'm thinking of doing a reversal. If I don't hit something maybe in the next three days with the spray, I'll probably just find a male to you know, whatever organic mail lines up for that pollination, whether it's a seed hunt or one of my clones of males that I got laying around, you know. So I'm I'm thinking uh of doing a reversal. Like I got a lot of grails, quote unquote, right now. So I'm like, do I reverse Sherbert? Do I reverse Loompus headband? Like I'm I'm I'm kind of in a writer's block, you know, with uh my breeding right now because because uh, you know, I don't I don't know what I wanna. It's gonna be a big bust from from now to summer, close to summer. So I want to make sure it's a big bust of something that I want everyone to have, including myself, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:13

I'm with you. I'm kind of at a uh breeder's block too. I've been breeding with like the cowboy line for so long, and I'm like finally I think gonna you know move on to something else just because I've been working on that project for like five years. Yeah, but I just got an original pack, so I can finally make F2s after spending like you know four years, you know, doing the BX3. Um so it's like it's funny. It's like I think I might do one last uh cowboy project, but um I'm trying to figure out what I'm gonna work on next too. Probably you know, maybe something with the Gary, like cowboy Gary or something, and then Gary Payton uh a different yeah, yeah, Gary Payton's good. Yeah, I did a Wilson line. Like I've never bred with it.

SPEAKER_09 1:51:58

I did a Wilson line too, uh recently, too, just to revisit my old male. You know, I've had that male since like 2018 now, so I just revisited him real quick. But yeah, I'm at a writer's block, dude. I am right now.

SPEAKER_10 1:52:11

Why don't you go to Jamaica, collect some seeds from the Peter Tosh Memorial, smash those into whatever amazing haze you have, and you can name them after my son. You can call it the Tosh Haze. That's literally his name.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:25

I gotta give me some of those, dude.

SPEAKER_10 1:52:27

I gotta get me some of those.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:30

I haven't grown any Jamaican stuff, to be honest. I've grown a lot of a lot of things, but I've never got like, oh, these are Jamaican, you know. I haven't got any Jamaican uh stuff. The lambs bread, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:52:39

Lambs breads are hard to find, but they're out there. There's the odd dude still caring for them. Lambs bread really is like a name for sativa in Jamaica. You'll see a variety of the all every if you find three people, and you're lucky to find three people if you do, uh, that have lambs bread, they'll be all very different. They'll just be like really wild low, like sativas that they've had for a super long time. There was a point with prohibition that it really affected the island, and everyone really was like, they'll start growing in these bogs and marshes and just grow plants that are like this tall and you know, indicas, quick flowering. They flower all the time because it's 12-12 in the Caribbean. They're not using like lights like in Colombia to veg those little bastards because in Colombia they can just grow whatever they want in the mountains, and then Jamaica, they're like actively searching for weed all the time, like armies, just like they just get them to like walk through the through the jungle with their machine guns. It's like my Jamaican buddy had his grow up this absolutely insane wall of like what looked like coral, like it used to be under the ocean, but now it was above. And we climbed up this thing, it was probably 60 or 70 feet, and his grow was on top. Well, at the bottom of it, he's got two fucking acres of peanuts. And I'm like, dude, what's this? He's like, Oh, that's my peanuts. And I'm like, Well, what are what are you doing with this? He's like, he basically was explaining that it was his front, and that if he was caught walking anywhere near this grow in the jungle, he would take them to the peanut grow and be like, I'm a peanut farmer. These are my peanuts. And so this guy was planting two acres of peanuts by hand, harvesting two acres of peanuts by hand as his front while he was growing 60 feet above that. That he had to climb everything up this wall. And I'm telling you, a wall. I climbed up it with Remo, the urban grower, and I thought he was gonna fucking die. By the way, this guy's doing it with shoes that have no shoelaces, and the tongues of his shoes are flipped out over the toe of his shoe. He's just climbing the fucking wall like Spider-Man. We get up there, there's 55 gallon barrels, there's fucking piping. I'm like, bro, Remo's like, how the fuck did you get all of this up here? And he goes, on my head. Like he's climbing with a 55-gallon barrel drum. I said, You I said, you climbed up here with a 55-barrel drum on your head. He goes, No, no, I put all three of them together and brought them all up at once. I'm like, Jamaicans are so fucking strong, Mace. It's absolutely insane. They do live a somewhat difficult life, and that difficulty absolutely creates strength and perseverance. It's weird if you live a soft life, how weak you become. And if you live a like Chronix, the singer, he said uh in one of his songs, if you don't know hard life, you don't know life yet. It's a it's an amazing lyric. And it's like, yeah, dude, like I really appreciate the fact that I grew up with kind of nothing in a sort of pretty shitty, you know, murder capital city of the world. Like, just had to learn at a very young age how to navigate without um without problems. And I feel like uh I feel like you probably had that in uh in Compton, Mace.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:07

Yeah, my dad would just be like, it builds character, like dad, like that's exactly what my dad would say. People someone's gonna get stabbed at the school. I don't want to come to the school, and he's like, You'll be fine, it builds character. And I'm just like, All right, dude, you know, I don't want to ride this public transit, you know, it builds character, shit like that, you know?

SPEAKER_10 1:56:25

Dude, my school was French immersion, which was like that is like a that's just a place where kids would go to beat kids up. They were like, let's go to the French immersion school and beat those kids up. And the school that we had next to our school was like a hardened indigenous school. Like it was very like 40 years ago when like it was just rough. It was very rough. It was like extreme poverty. It was in the north end of Winnipeg, and it was um all almost all native. And so they were just like pent up and angry, and they they'd roll, they'd roll in, even just two or three of them. We'd see them roll into our. We had a huge our our school ground must have been like like three or four acres, you know, out behind our giant old school that used to be like a nuns covenant, and we were being taught by nuns. So it was kind of like go outside, you can't come in until the bell rings, and then these fucking kids from this high school would roll up and just start like they're you know, they're like 14, 15, 16, 17 years old, and we're like 11, 10, 9 years old. Oh my god, dude. I'll never forget running from those fucking kids, dude, and trying to get let into the school and that and that because they'd lock the door. The nuns would like let us out and then lock the door like we couldn't get back in until it's like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:49

They were watching the whole time. They're like, they were like, it builds character, and they were like, uh, he's about to get a lot of character building on right now.

SPEAKER_10 1:57:56

Oh, look at the character getting built on that kid. There's fucking haymaker characters. Oh my god. Uh yeah. Well, you know what? I didn't like growing up young, scared. I really didn't. It was not ideal. I mean, it went away eventually, but there was definitely because I also took the city bus with my sister, obviously. Like, it was just the time. It's like, what else are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_09 1:58:20

Nothing. I was uh I was the first dude dropped off. The last person, no, the first dude picked up, the last one dropped off on the bus. So I was like, pitcher first grade, you were there for all of it, seven years old, like six in the morning, seven in the morning. Like, I gotta catch the bus to make it to school. Like, what the fuck, bro? What the fuck is it builds character?

SPEAKER_07 1:58:40

It builds character, it builds a whole lot of character, apparently. Fucking ridiculous.

SPEAKER_10 1:58:46

Yeah, and now you look at your kid, dude, and you're like, the last thing you'd want to do is you're like, you know what? I'm gonna build my kid's character different, very much different in a way that doesn't crush and destroy them.

SPEAKER_09 1:58:58

I I told I was talking to my son, I'm like, you see all the things I do? Like, I love my dad, but your dad, my dad, he did a little bit worse things, you know. You gotta clean up the next whatever I do, Ron. You gotta you clean that one up, you know. And I'm like, just you got it, you know, learn, learn, you know. And he's like, he's 15 now, so you know, he's got he's got a little beard, and he's becoming the little man of the house at here and there, and I just gotta ease up on him, you know.

SPEAKER_10 1:59:23

Yeah, yeah, it's tough, man. 15 to 20 is a tough time in a young man's life. And the thing that sort of our culture doesn't realize is that they need mentors and they need milestones, they need to have, they can't just be cast out into the ocean, you know what I mean? Like what they really need, and I you know, not to sound like some fucking like crazy right-wing fucking militant, but they need discipline and structure, like in a big fucking way. And what that looks like, it doesn't look like you're going into the army to, you know what I mean, but it does look like consistency, you know what I mean. Like one of the things that I find that really is hard with young people is they love to stay up all night and sleep all day, and that is the that is like the the destruction of discipline. So I got I got a 22-year-old son, and he's uh you know, he's a computer guy, loves the games and being on his computer. And for a while I was like, dude, you gotta do more than that. That's when he got into the weightlifting and the eating and super healthy training, and now I can't even be mad at him because he's like way healthier than I am, it's like way bigger than I am. He's like his discipline is beyond what I have experienced. I was never that disciplined at 22. In fact, not even fucking close, dude. I was a pretty much a raging maniac, like eating mushrooms and fucking you know, driving my Volkswagen van down the highway on fucking three grams of mushrooms and totally not thinking it was like ignorant or a bad thing to do.

SPEAKER_09 2:00:52

Yeah, my son's not awake yet, but at his age, I was already smoking weed and trying to hang out at my buddy's house, you know. And he's like, I guess it's like when you grow up around it, it's not that cool, you know. So he sees his dad a stoner, he's like, dude, I'm good, you know. I don't want you know, my son doesn't puff at all.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:10

Yeah, so that's yeah. My youngest son seems to have the interest though. Like, he'll he'll come in and be like, What's that one? I'll be like, Oh, this one's the Tally Mon. Pull the dab of Tally Mon out when you mentioned it. Hell yeah. I figured it was time, but yeah, what a trip, man. Having kids, such a beautiful thing, making hash, growing weed. It's uh fuck we you know. I saw a comedian talking about it. We do live in a wonderful time, we live in an amazing time. I saw this comedian today who was talking about how lucky we are, and he's like, and he's like, you know, most of us live like we're fucking spoiled princes from two years ago. You know, it's like it's cold, have the heat, it's too hot, to be colder. And then he's like, for my food, it's like bring me just the limbs of chickens, and I want a hot peppery sauce from South America and cheese from I'm just like, oh my god, we are. We're like we're like kings and queens from 200 years ago with our fucking frappuccinos at Starbucks and our we just, you know, it's good. If if times get too soft, times get hard. So I think there's a balance of like, you know, keep a little bit of the of the hard life going so that life is I'd rather a consistent life than this up and down of like, oh, I'm gonna do so well that the next three generations of my family are gonna suffer horribly from it. Because that's what leaving wealth behind really does. And it's only really the people who grew up without wealth that kind of get to know that. But uh yeah, you you pride. I I think it's why pride is one of the deadly sins. You love your kids so much. You know, if Edgar or myself woke up with a hundred million dollars tomorrow, it would be hard not to spoil the fuck out of our kids, like the fuck out of our kids. But 1000% on my life guaranteed, it would destroy them. Yeah, it would absolutely fucking destroy them.

SPEAKER_09 2:03:18

And so we spoil our kids, and we know like whenever they do lash out or like you know, act out of pocket, it's because of because we spoil the shit out of them, you know.

SPEAKER_07 2:03:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_09 2:03:29

But it's exactly it's crazy.

SPEAKER_10 2:03:31

Well, it is, it's both fun, and it's both like, geez, how do you fucking like prepare them for the world so they don't get consumed by the world? It's interesting how all of life is just really these like side quests. It's like we're in a legends of Zelda game, and it's like we're all just side questing, like hash making and raising kids, and I fucking love it, man.

SPEAKER_09 2:03:52

It's time for a fat dab. And it's like out of out of, you know, not just randomly. I get day job ooze sometimes, like like I'll bend over and I'll be like, I'll have like before I had a seed company, like I'll have thoughts of the seed company back in the day, and it'd be like, like, oh, I just seen this thing like at the table, like and I and I remembered it. And it's just like, what the fuck? Like, that shit's weird, you know? Like, just little little situations, like I've seen Masonic things before Masonic was even a thing, like in my past life, you know, like deja vu, you know, I'll get it. I had it recently, and and I couldn't explain it. I've been with my wife half my life now, and and I'll explain it to her. Like, damn, like shit's weird, you know, super weird. Some of the shit weird.

SPEAKER_10 2:04:40

Two-thirds of my life for me right now. Yeah, I just had to think of that. I never thought of that before. That's fucking crazy, dude.

SPEAKER_08 2:04:47

Been with my wife half the life now. 33. I've been with her since we were like 15, you know.

SPEAKER_10 2:04:51

Yeah, yep. My wife was 15 when I met her, and we're 53 now.

SPEAKER_08 2:04:56

Poof. There you go. Fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:04:58

Yeah, that's like my dad.

SPEAKER_09 2:04:59

What year were you born? 73. Yeah, my dad was born 70, and he's been with my mom since they were in high school. Yeah, that's what's up, dude.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:06

I could have been puffing dabs with your dad.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:08

Yeah, my dad, my dad. He he he's he's out here. He's he he bought a house in Mexico, so he's living over there right now.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:15

Oh, that's what's up. Whereabouts in Mexico, Jalisco.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:18

Uh oh, Jalisco, yeah. It's like uh the 45 minutes from Puerto Vallarta is the is the is the closest big town. Yeah, it's really nice out there. Where my family's from there.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:27

Oh, that's what's up. Yeah, that's what's up. He's not just some like American dude going to buy a house in Mexico, he's like fucking buying his roots.

SPEAKER_08 2:05:36

Nah, he we we know everybody out there, you know, there's all our people. Dude, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:41

Yeah, that is amazing. There's something to be said for for family and community, you know? It really is.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:48

It's it's important to me.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:51

Oh, yeah, it's everything to me. It is literally everything. It's why I go to the shows, it's why, you know, I I told my wife in a very, you know, like nothing is more important than my family. Um, you know, sometimes you know, she'll be like, oh, you're really putting a lot of attention into that. I'm like, yeah, but all of this is just for this.

SPEAKER_07 2:06:08

100%.

SPEAKER_10 2:06:09

Like this is for this. This is why we do this, you know. And there's there's no real uh doubt. There's no real doubting it. Someone just said Indra turned 80. Is he in the chat right now? Happy birthday. Survived my 80th birthday on the 22nd. Hope you're all doing well. Well, we gotta tell Indra happy birthday, dude.

SPEAKER_07 2:06:29

Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_10 2:06:30

Legend, you know, Indra, the guy that released the butane method on on Euroid back in uh '99.

SPEAKER_07 2:06:36

Nah, bro. That's looking that's dope.

SPEAKER_10 2:06:38

He used to, yeah, he was like, like, listen, you won't find a BHO guy before Indra. He's the dude. And then, because he's actually such a fucking conscious, awesome dude, then he'd start writing me and going, Look, I, you know, I just I've known about this. He's got like a gigantic butane extractor, and he's got the gas metered in, and it's like his recipe, and he's not buying gas with mercapitan in it. And he's basically he was doing BHO at the highest level that it's ever been done at before anyone ever figured out to do it. You know, he used to put a bunch in a pen. He'd go to Amsterdam and he'd just take the body of a pen and stuff it full of weed and just blast a can and he'd make a couple of grams. And that was the first time I saw BHO at the Steve Dumas, the nose, uh, a big haze guy in Amsterdam. He's got a little apartment next to the central station there. And I was over at his house and he had this, it was the strongest shit I'd ever smoked at the time. It was like probably 97 or 98. And that's how I first heard the word Indra, John Davis, which Steve and John, I guess, have known each other for a very long time, maybe 50 years or something. And anyway, yeah, I smoked that shit. It was so strong, I had no idea what it was. Then it came out. He released it literally like a month after I released the bubble bags for the first time ever. So I was kind of like, really, dude? Like, I couldn't even get like two months of fucking sales in before because butane fucking spread like wildfire, like pun intended. Shit. Like the bags were slow going because here's the thing about butane no matter what you put in, to the layman, you would get out a golden honey oil with bubble. You could get like sand out that didn't stick together. You know, you wouldn't you didn't always get six star. The people that did give six get six star, they're they were solventless for life. They were just like, Okay, I'm good. I found it, I've reached my goal. This is what I want. I'm golden. But that was like one percent of people, and the 99% of people were like, Fuck, what else? How can I make this better? And someone's like, So then he starts emailing me about oh, yeah, I didn't realize that there were poisons that are oil soluble and accumulative in the body in the butane that's sold in the cans. So he's like, Can you tell people? And I'm like, Well, dude, I'm not the butane guy. What the nobody's gonna listen to me? And so I'd start sharing Indra's tips because he felt bad of what was happening to the community. So he was he wasn't trying to tell them not to do it, but he was kind of kind of being like, the understanding of what's going on, like this is what's happening. And I became the most hated person in the butane community because of it. They're like fucking bubble man, he's biased. He just hate. I'm like, dude, it was actually Indra texting and emailing me, emailing me back then. This is before he came on Hash Church and just letting me know, research Ethelmer Capitan. It's a it's the it's the it's the material they put in that smells like rotten eggs because you can't move.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:36

It gives it an aroma.

SPEAKER_10 2:09:38

It gives it an aroma, exactly. So he started talking about that, and then also the you know, the explosions. He was like, you know, you got to do it in a very specific. He just had no idea when he shared it, and I think he would agree if he's still in chat, it weighed on him. Young people blowing up and uh and tons of people inhaling like ethyl mercapitan. He didn't like it, he just wanted people to get really high, he wanted people to have access to to really nice butane oil. But the problem is is his machine is like out of like nobody can have that. It's you know, the 2000 plus kgs. Hey, I offered to put it on hold until you got success. I would have never asked you to do that, brother. I just couldn't do that. And the way you did it, listen, the way it happened was exactly the way it was supposed to happen. I might not seem like the biggest butane proponent, but I would fight for everyone to have access to all aspects of cannabis. If you want butane hash oil, like I'm not gonna try and be a fucking cock block gatekeeper, like go and start talking. Hey, we should get rid of butane, no one should have access to it. It's like, holy shit, doesn't mean I'm gonna be smoking it and loving it, but I'm I'm not I'm not a dick. I'm not uh trying to keep people from enjoying what they enjoy. I think the better way for us to do is just inspire each other with the things we have, and I've definitely done that over the years with uh with water hash and uh geez, I wonder if I should smoke a joint. Should I smoke a joint?

SPEAKER_09 2:11:06

That looks like you're about to blast something.

SPEAKER_10 2:11:08

Uh this is my blast, dude. No, it's like uh you can suck the oxygen, but doesn't that look like a blast?

SPEAKER_07 2:11:14

Just just get you hear that?

SPEAKER_10 2:11:17

It popped. It's got a little oxygen. Acting columns, dude. Yeah, it pulls, yeah, exactly. Fuck, this smells super speaking of butane.

SPEAKER_09 2:11:25

I want to try some good butane BHO. It's been like since 2018 since I smoked some butane dabs, but I'm very open-minded to it. I'm not like I'm not like yo. I'm open-minded, yo. Pepsi challenge me, bro. Like, put a jar in front of me.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:40

That's what Dougie's doing right now. There's a there's a company in Oregon that puts out fire, at least when I was in Oregon, that like still to this day, I think Venicon, and it was Echo's lectuary, and it was their road dog that was uh groomed by like Benson Harbor Farms. Um and I yeah, like I still remember that because it was properly. done and it was there they they have a a you know really nice extraction system and it was really good material and it was like an OG chem uh variety that definitely wouldn't translate like that uh usually in in rosin. I think now we're finding stuff like 100% that that is loud for gas and and carries through for rosin.

SPEAKER_10 2:12:20

Like it's taken a few years to sift through and find uh you know the ones like motor breath um you know have some sours that like really you know all the way through they didn't lose any of that in the water so what is that so that's the thing you have to ask yourself right when water hash first came out no one liked it a because nine out of 10 people made sandy shitty hash but also most of the cultivars at the time of water hash like in the late 80s or late 90s there was a ton of cultivars that didn't wash they just weren't hash production cultivars they they just leached all their flavor into the water and then the hash itself there was no translation whatsoever. So what I'm talking about when I say maybe there's tools we can bring into this breeding what if there was a way for us to catch eyes on a particular gene synthase that was like if it was present or bred into a cultivar regardless of what that cultivar was it would suddenly start to wash do you know what I mean it it would be like the cuticle if you could like dial in like the perfect trichome head cuticle that could protect any terpenes and then you could remove it.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:31

But it's like I think that's almost how you'd be able to or where you'd want to focus at least on the gene aspect um you know is focused on like literally the genes involved if the head um and then study more whether you know it's terpen still leaching through the head. We don't quite understand that again like terpenaline like I struggle to find anything uh you know that is terpeniline dominant that washes and that doesn't same with like things like lemon tree limanine I believe you know is very it's like you touch that resin and it's water too so it's so sensitive. Um but it is that the nature of the head or is this you know the the that's what we need to the cuticle or I think you know it's probably a combination of both.

SPEAKER_10 2:14:16

Well I'll tell you whatever it is it's connected to a gene synthase. Whatever it is it's that's part of the it's the coding it's the back end coding of the plant.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:27

And so I want to catch eyes I want to start using prosthetics like a genomics lab when it gets more affordable where we can go in and look at you know the the data is going to be incredible but we'll have we'll be able to aggregate that data find the things that we're looking for you know I mean my God who knows maybe one day we'll be able to go ahead so we just need a collective of uh growers breeders and people that like we can actually come up with like a tr have like trusted lab to work with because obviously phylos like that offlet quite a few people myself included who my my background is in um molecular bio and everything that's that's when I went to the undergrad for at CU so I've you know I wanted the importance of being able to understand the genomic sequence and I want us to be able to sequence everything. But I've also seen us as growers and breeders be completely you know taken advantage of but again we need to band together more as a community between like different breeders and come up and be able to pull together our resources more and be able to protect ourselves so we can work with the lab to be able to how do you how do you protect yourselves when here's the difference between the people who are protecting themselves that's true breeding that's where you spend millions of dollars if you're selling seeds publicly you're selling all of your work you're giving it all away they're buying it and I'm saying protect us as a community so they can't make a variety that makes every variety obsolete I'm not worried about I think everything should be open source as far as it is I put out helogenics and we put out dude I'm in the same boat but look at look at Skype and Sam. If you want to make them as accessible and I I don't think anybody owns these genetics in in my mind unless maybe you have some proprietary thing that you bred and put it well that that that's what we're getting into.

SPEAKER_10 2:16:23

Imagine now the difference between Edgar Chuck and some pollen Sam opens up a pharmaceutical lab in Holland he gets Dave Pate the PhD chemist and pays him probably a hundred thousand euros a year or something I don't know he's got Rob Clark working he's got a whole team of people that work in the greenhouse he's had to collect uh seeds from all around the world and bring them back to Holland. Now he's going to start doing his breeding he's gonna spend millions of dollars breeding this cultivar. He's gonna breed this incredible plant uh you know a lot of that was done prior when he did skunk but when he brought skunk to Amsterdam dude ever all all you had to do is if you had a seed and it was shitty was cross it with skunk and you had a new cultivar. And that's what Amsterdam was. And so Sam watched that all happen and he, you know, he was he loved the idea of the of the of the access but he I think he also loved the idea of like it would kind of be cool if the work I put in was like four and a half years of my life and I spent millions of dollars that there's a mechanism for me to protect this small thing. So I think both should exist. I'm very much on the fence in the sense that I love the idea of both uh existing I don't want to create gatekeeping that would uh keep something that would otherwise not exist or from existing do you know what I mean because the gate the gate is there now that's going to keep something amazing coming into play that would suck for sure but they're they're both very different things. Cannabis is so fucking dichotomous dude it's like the recreational versus medical dash preventative aspect of cannabis what other recreational product is a medicine that like shrinks cancer tumors and stops seizures and like it's so fucking insane. So those are similar things right like rec is like pollen chucking and like medical is maybe more like true breeding metaphorically I'm not saying that they both can't fit but I do really very much think they both have their place. It is unfortunate with what went down with phylos I don't personally see I don't I still to this day don't understand how anyone lost anything with phylos. I think they all felt lied to but in reality their realities didn't really change no one stole their genetics no one gained something that no one took something that they don't have anymore. Like I don't see I don't see how everyone lost what I did see was how everyone reacted and then did this whole community thing which will lead us into masters of rosin and fidel and the fucking fisticuffs that went down over there because I definitely want to talk about that as well. Were you there for that by the way? Nah but I went to visit surge the day after type shit so okay he was one of the the fighters where was that it was in LA it was it was in LA okay I wasn't sure if that was in New York or LA so yeah okay uh that's funny it's a we had uh someone get punched out at legends uh in LA one year uh yeah I was I was there when that one happened like I turned around you know the both people yeah I know them pretty well I was there and homie was shout out to Terry and uh I didn't want to I didn't want to I'm fucking through yeah dude hey you fucking listen a bring your drama to my event and then get punched in the face you're both and listen listen Terry's a dear friend of mine I fucking love Terry like he's he's a he's my homie I I I I love his madness he's a he's a truly mad uh scientist and and also I get along with Professor Sift I've puffed bowls with him uh you know so it is what it is um how you doing Dr. Mark hey Mark how are you I feel like I haven't seen you in a long time yeah well wait a second you were in Boston I was in Boston actually yeah I'm a couple hours from Boston I met some great people from Vermont actually Stowe they invited me over there to snowboard on the mountain some other guys invited me Verocious Voracious I think they were from Vermont Voracious yeah Zeph right on shout out to Zef he's had some of the best dabs I had while I was in Baston really nice dabs from uh from from Vermont and Maine I I really really uh what were the Vermont brands do you remember I think it was Verocious or ver voracious okay I'd have to take i let me see if I have the picture because I I feel like I took a picture I'm not I I always want to represent when I get good dabs and kind of you know like you don't want to be a is that it right there it is hey sorry guys I gotta uh head down the hill and go to this seed event uh but it was great chatting with everybody and um yeah hope to do it again soon I'll see you uh next time you're in Colorado Marcus dude super looking forward to it man like I said I want to make some hash absolutely well you guys have a great weekend thanks again say hi to everyone for us will do peace guys dude damn look at fucking mace is just like yeah I don't do the torch back and forth thing I just do the double fucking torch just smash this thing up he's got the slurper shout out to fucking JP and all the glassblowers so was Brian there Brian ended up showing up and we didn't link up he showed up and he wanted to go to the event I guess there was like an award ceremony I didn't even know anything about this listen I have uh I suffer from what the old people call Jomo right I'm not a fear of missing out guy I'm a joy of missing out guy so the only thing I went to at that event other than that event was my homies through an event called morning melts and it was like a brunch breakfast thing like they had some like tarts and this were woman Katie put it all together and my buddy Andrew Berman and Michael and the whole chem was there chem dog was there. Well chem was there so you saw Craig yeah I fucking hung out with him for a while it was a very small little intimate hash maker group and fucking people were super tripped out because they were just like are you bubble man? Like people don't expect me to be in the U.S.

SPEAKER_03 2:22:41

That's how Jeff was Jeff's jaw was on the floor he was like he was like dude I'm like I'm like looking at you from a distance I'm like is that so this is just we've never met right none of us a lot of us have never met in person so when you meet Jeff Rawson you're talking about right now Jeff Rosson yeah yeah okay so Jeff your chemist friend that you brought on to to the church yeah a couple episodes ago yeah Jeff's a really good guy so how did that yeah so um wow I walked around the corner and I saw him standing there dude when you're coming to the east coast you gotta let me know and say I I this was a terrible week for me because it was last week of our semester and you know and you just did a bunch of events like you were just at like conferences and stuff you were traveling you that have were you not like we haven't been large the reason why I'm not at sphere at the fish shows is because it's the last week of our semester and we just did our academic symposium and I was just with two of my students who were at our poster presentations and I had a student giving oral presentations so no I this is like an extremely important uh professorial moment if you will to be present uh here so I I couldn't get away and yeah I I really I wanted to go to sphere you know who went to sphere you were talking about him earlier was Scott Scott Reach yeah I see it's yeah so TMB Gardens uh shout out to TMB we're big fish heads uh big weed people and um yeah brought Scott to his first show and Scott seems like he was pretty amazed I mean posted a bunch of video and everything uh but um yeah hey Marcus I don't mean to correct you but I got I gotta say one thing every time you say gene synthase yeah sorry yeah so that's a slight missed of the you so so the central paradigm of biology is that genetic information gets passed down through generations and that genetic information is encoded in the in the in the genes right and so genes code for synthesis and right so you there's a certain gene or a set of genes that will code for say THCA synthase right yeah and so yeah you could now that they've identified the entire genome in the plant they know what genes code for these things that are along the pathway so I'm just saying just as a term of art you don't really want to say gene synthase you just want to say genes that code for a synthase that's probably okay I got this from Sam so you know Sam he's just listening to scientists.

SPEAKER_10 2:25:21

Well he was the guy he used to call Limanene Limelene right but he was also the guy he was also the guy that did more than any other guy. So you gotta give him that too it's uh six seven as the young kids are saying these days. Oh so yeah sorry we didn't meet up dude but uh like I said it'll happen again soon I'm yeah well next time you're you're in the you know so when are you in New York? You're gonna be in New York soon I don't know I've been speaking with my New York partners and it sounds like sooner than later but I next month is really it's it's Michigan Denver and New Mexico.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:03

Those are the first well let's get you some Vermont partners right away again I could introduce you to trainer in that group these guys are the best hash makers in the state yeah you want to go with the highest quality hash in the state that's who you want to go with yeah go see these voracious guys too he had beautiful fucking resin I I don't know them I'll have to connect with them for sure.

SPEAKER_10 2:26:24

Here I'll show you his resin because I took a picture of it when I was at my dinner this was a picture under super low light. Like just look at the sugar on the edge of the jar. It's like fucking jam yeah I like to scoop up the sugar oh me too wet wet bam you know yeah dude hey listen let me tell you something about the sugar and scooping up the sugar uh where did you go?

SPEAKER_03 2:26:49

I know you're near my challenge the challenge in Vermont is they have a stupid fucking THC limit on the products right and so I think it's the limit itself in the regulation is 60% but they let you slide up to 65 so that's gotta analyze for just no more than 65% or else they can't sell it.

SPEAKER_10 2:27:14

Alright I found it Edgar you get a dabber like this right you see this dabber okay okay check out the s the the sugar fucking paddle on the other end of it. Alright it's a silicone sugar paddle that just cleans jars out that you don't even know anything is in the jar. I'll get like a big fat dab. I can't tell you how many times like guavas and honey bananas and just those real stinky ones it'll be like a black Myron jar and I'm like oh there's nothing left and then this little guy will be like you find some fucking shit on the Myron there there's like a lip yeah that goes upward and if you don't dig in there like that's like one average size person dab in there. Check this out it totally bends this thing I need one of those I need a bendy tool you do once again I've shouted this thing out so many times maybe I'll take a picture of it and try to find it for you I always forget the name of the company it's a simple dabber with a silicone sleeve and a little paddle on the end there a little you know whatever you want to call it but this thing is the ultimate for just cleaning out the last of the dabs oh woe is me when we don't want to lose our dabs um this shit's too expensive to be like just throwing away invisible dabs on the edge. Yeah especially when you're down to E, you start to regret all those big dabs you took and you're just like yeah dude I'm telling you there was a time and I swear to god this time must have lasted I Sam's role was crazier than mine. His run was incredible but I bet you I had like a 16 year run where I had multiple types of full melt six star all the time never ran out 16 fucking years. This is why when people are like how could you stop smoking joints I'm like okay bro let me just try to wrap your head around this imagine I just give you all your favorite cultivars in six star full melt hash and you just have them all the time forever like six or eight different varieties. Oh I'd still smoke joints I'm like I know you think that and maybe you would but you can't say you would until you have the experience that's the problem. You have to have it in your stack you know how we all are you got your jars you can you can think you know what your favorite one is but your favorite one in reality is the one that's fucking empty the one that you keep going back to. People give me nice resin all the time and then it sits on my table and I don't smoke it and it turns into a skin and orange and later I'll see them and they'll be like hey how are those dabs and I'm like uh you want the like uh the the truth or you want the like uh you want me to crush your soul or you want you want me to just and I always give it away in my defense I never throw resin away when a when a resin gets too old I have a lot of friends whose bars are set a lot lower than mine and they are so fucking grateful and appreciative uh to receive something like that that then I'll give the person their review you know they'll I'll be like dude I I actually ended up sharing it with a friend and he fucking loved it and that might not be exactly what they're looking for but it's better than me saying bro I couldn't be bothered smoking your dabs I let them fucking age on my desk and then gave them to my fucking tree works buddy who like they don't want to hear that shit.

SPEAKER_09 2:30:40

They don't want to hear that shit yeah I'm the same way I I tell them um hey if I don't get back to you like I'm not I don't tell them that but when they ask me again it's like if I tell you your resin's good it's because it was good. If I didn't tell you nothing you're gonna have to ask me again and I'm gonna tell you it wasn't good. But I'm not gonna tell you it wasn't good. But you you have to be like you know give it to me give it to me honest and I'll be like yes or no but I'm not gonna tell you like dude that char you gave me was bad like nah like I'm gracious you know oh you want to know yeah you got a little work to do bud like I can help you with that what do you need you know what are you doing like let's fix this problem you know yeah I will send them over to the highest critic yeah no doubt you're out of control Caleb you yo Caleb I got a bunch of shit that like I brought because I have a freezer full of hash that you know from from stuff I didn't really like and I just pulled out like a tray like this big yesterday because I had somebody a buddy out of town and like you were saying they're like oh this one was good and I'm just like good like somebody's enjoying it you know and because I didn't those are the send it to the lowest critic no doubt no doubt hey this is the thing this is subjective everyone enjoys different things at different times and I think that when you learn how important setting is to a psychedelic experience that you realize that setting is is quite important.

SPEAKER_10 2:32:12

And okay here's another example of setting you know like the the metaphoric setting of being really hungry and how much good food tastes even better when you're really hungry. If you can create atmospheres and environments you can get more out of a high than you would in a different atmosphere and environment the same flour the same hash the same whatever it's all about sort of setting up that setting and and kind of that's what you know we try to do with legends is create an environment where at least while you're dabbing there that it's that it's you're you're enjoying those dabs more than you would in most any environment that's what I'm trying to do with the next legends of hash I don't care who fucking wins I don't care who loses I feel like if we're if you're at legends you already won that's how it used to be at least 100% fresh calypso flower next month you see that uh Caleb Jake fresh calypso flower next month Caleb it's calling you out which I'm guessing you're gonna see some of that flower I still haven't hit this talymond dab holy crist I I I smacked mine and I blew uh the smoke out the door so I'm chilling that shit was really tasty this pineapple dude it sm just tastes like banana y fruity goodness this one yeah honey bananas top tier primary hash color yeah big big fan of those those flavors I'm not gonna lie big fan of those flavors people ask me all the time what my favorite is I would say probably haze is my favorite but really what my favorite is is um just being able to enjoy perfectly grown and perfectly extracted Flat hash. That's my favorite. I don't care what the Celtivar is as much if it's been grown to perfection. And I find when you meet up with certain people, like Stuart from Minor Melts, everything he grows is fire. Yeah. Like he's not he's not producing shitty material. Oh, here he's asking. So, what's your guys' thoughts on the thing where people can't tell the difference between BHO and Rosin? Well, here's the thing: people talk a big talk, but when you actually blind test them with anything, it really does separate the actual high-level experts. And I don't think it's a big deal to not be able to tell the difference personally. Um, I think that the world nowadays is all about doing that. There's all sorts of different things that are like, hey, let's take this and make it look like this, or let's disguise this, you know. I don't think BHO is a disguise. I get what he's doing in regards to it, the idea of what he's doing, and it's kind of cool the conversation that it's stirring up. Wow, I'd let that dab cool down way too much. Have you guys ever put a dab in your banger back in the universal heater? So not a torch, but like slow, because that's what I'm doing right now. It's full dab and it's in the universal heater, and I can just, you know what? I think I'm gonna hit this bitch while it's in the heater.

SPEAKER_09 2:35:34

It's like a cold star reverse engineered.

SPEAKER_10 2:35:38

Oh shit, I like that.

SPEAKER_07 2:35:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 2:35:43

Let's go. Yeah, I I wouldn't like my ego wouldn't be hindered if they did the blind test on me and I thought the BHO was rosin. I'd be like, where is it? Cool. You you like that's fine with me. This is what I've been looking for, you know? Like, I'm fine with high quality that, but it just with what happened is all that CRC crap, and it just like mostly bad product of it was available. But the same can be said for rosin, but it's just like exactly like what are we talking about here, you know? But but it just is the same, you know. It just so happens I haven't seen a BHO that's as good as my favorite Rosin cold cure. You know, like I haven't seen it from then till now, and it's been that's it, it's been seven years, but I'm very hey dude, it's 2026.

SPEAKER_10 2:36:39

Well, and the the control you have over your grow and your flour and making hash, you don't have a closed loop fucking butane system. Like you can just make hash with your kid, you can feed your kid while hand stirring a bucket, fucking hit that shit with a with a with a hair straightener and literally be smoking some of the best dabs on the planet. And that comparison is really difficult to do. Now, when BHO first came out and everyone was just doing this, it was the bees' knees, right? It was um it was the best place to take your mediocre hash and turn it into something that's much better. Now, there were certain people who were taking great hash and even 90 micron or 70 to 3 micron, but they were far and few between. And the majority, just like what you said with rosin, and I say it all the time, rosin is where mediocre hash goes to finish its life cycle. Most mediocre hash ends up as rosin these days because uh people want to dab, they want that oil, they want that look. And until people show me the bubble hash they made their their rosin with, you know, the bubble hash is the flex, in my opinion. That's I've said it many times, you know. Not that I would ever be upset with what I call mediocre bubble going into rosin. Some of that rosin's amazing, super nice, but it's not going to be as amazing as perfectly grown hash that you've extracted. If you fucking hit that with I want bubble hash that when you press it, you get a 97% return, and it's literally the same thing that you smoke at. No one can tell the difference between the bubble hash and the rosin from the same batch. It's a fat dab, Colin. I hope it's bubble man brand.

SPEAKER_09 2:38:23

And uh, I'll say his job mission accomplished, you know. Like whether he was trying to get engagement or actually build conversation for the sake of information for the community, like his mission successful, like it leached all the way into the hash church Sunday, like in the community.

SPEAKER_10 2:38:42

Oh, not even leached, Dougie's a homie, dude. I love I love Doug.

SPEAKER_09 2:38:45

Like that, like over spilled, whatever. You know, like Dougie's cool, nothing against Dougie.

SPEAKER_10 2:38:51

No, no, he brings it out, right? He's stirring the shit, and he's got like he's got like the perfect voice and cadence. You know what I'm saying, man. Like it's so fucking good. Like, he's saying what he's saying, if you read it, you would hear it in his voice.

SPEAKER_09 2:39:10

He's the best. He is the best, dude.

SPEAKER_06 2:39:13

Dougie's uh Dougie is shout out to him, man.

SPEAKER_09 2:39:16

I'm a fan of the of the culture, and he was he was already on and popping. Like, I respect, you know, like the masters of the game. I I was a student, he was already a master of the game. Like, I'll give him that. And he's a G. He pulled up to he pulled up to my store when I had my store on Fairfax in a U-Haul, filled to the top with his, you know, with his bags, and he fucking gave away, I don't know, like a thousand bags that day. He's yeah, he's he's a G.

SPEAKER_10 2:39:41

Dude, every time I've ever hung out with him, I've just enjoyed it. I've never I I love the fact that we see things very differently and totally get along. You know what I mean? Like, I don't uh, you know, every once in a while I'll listen to one of his things and be like, I gotta go make a comment. But mostly what I comment with, like nine out of ten times, all I put up is is this. I'm dead. There you go. I just post that every time. Someone will be like, yeah, well, we got this, that, and the other thing, and then I'll just because they're all having a rosin BHO conversation, and I'm just like sitting in the VIP lounge puffing melt, listening to it, enjoying it, because really the bottom line is the best BHO and the best rosin is from Bubble Hash, bitches. That's what you use to make it. Yep, yep. Oh shit. I just puffed out of Colin's Puffco. It's very cool that Colin and I got to spend some time uh with one another over the last 30 years. I think. Did you really? I thought it was three because we did Toronto and we did Amsterdam when you were drumming with your band, and so now we did uh Bastin.

SPEAKER_06 2:40:55

There we go. Boston was epic. We uh we had killer dinners. Uh killer. I gave you a jar of my work from the New York outfit from the VLS NY, which was fun. You gave me a jar back from Colorado. From Colorado, which was awesome. I mean Boston's dope for what it was, you know. Like we we ate and then we went and had a a feast of a dinner at Daily Catch. Shout out to Max. I shouted him out. That was epic. And what you know, we had lobsters across the table. I mean, lobster. Lobsters and pasta.

SPEAKER_10 2:41:33

Here, wait, you know what? I feel like as a photographer, it's important when we say the stories that we share the photos.

SPEAKER_06 2:41:44

So dude, I didn't even I you know, because it's funny, I forgot my phone when we went here because I parked my car right, and then I forgot it again when I went to that party. Dude, that black setup. When I got your text later, I was like, yes, I went to the party, but I'm back.

SPEAKER_10 2:42:00

It was delicious. It's always nice to just spend time with good people. The cannabis uh community is alive and well. I met absolute obsessive, compulsive, maniac growers and hash makers that were just like nerding out at the highest level. Shout out to Chachi, who I met on my last day. He was so funny. We're talking about age and this kid, he looked so young. He's like, I'm 37, but I look 12. And he had this crazy fucking pipe that was basically like uh like uh what do you fucking call it? It was it was uh well, whatever this is. I I can't remember the name of it. A lightsaber. It was a lightsaber from that's not Chachi, by the way, that's Chachi's homie. But um Chachi's not people coming by with cool shit, doing cool shit, puffing at the bowl the whole or the at the uh at the booth the whole time, and just uh oh, I gotta shout out uh Brett too. Uh you're making an appearance on Hash Church, dude. Shout out to this maniac that Colin introduced me to. He's actually in my phone as Brett Maniac. That's what I put his last name as. He's the absolute fucking maniac. There's nothing better than Brett, man. There's nothing better than he there's always someone I meet on these trips that I end up having so much fun with. I had the most fun with this guy. We kept meeting up, we kept bumping into each other. You know, while you guys went to Fenway and we skipped, Brent Brent and I just sat there for like the two hours that you guys were gone, just laughing, dude. Smoking joints, smoking dabs, eating food, watching the Edmonton Oilers lose to the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Fuck you, ducks, but good game. You played well, you played a better game.

SPEAKER_06 2:43:46

That was epic though. Uh and green analytics, yo. If you guys aren't testing with them, please do. They are epic, uh, really accurate, really honest, and they know their science.

SPEAKER_10 2:43:56

They've did I introduce you to that guy?

SPEAKER_06 2:43:59

Which guy?

unknown 2:44:00

Which guy?

SPEAKER_10 2:44:00

From no, it was it, no, it wasn't Green Analytics. Maybe it was.

SPEAKER_06 2:44:04

Maybe he's Corey and so Brett works at Green Analytics, and I've known them for a while.

SPEAKER_10 2:44:10

And who's the owner?

SPEAKER_06 2:44:12

So Corey is the owner, or he's one of the founders.

SPEAKER_10 2:44:15

Okay, so so I met Corey before I met Brett. Or no, I met him the next day. When I saw you guys at the yard house, I didn't really talk to you guys because I was sitting with Thomas. Corey was with the Asian woman at your table. Yes, that's who I brought you over to meet. Exactly. So, but I I bumped into him the next day and actually because I didn't I talked to him for like two minutes. It was less than two minutes, and it was so loud, and everyone was drinking. But I met him the next day in the lobby of the hotel, and yeah, he was a super good dude, man. We're definitely I I introduced him to my partner Dan, uh, and we'll bet we'll definitely do our business with uh Green Analytics. Awesome, man.

SPEAKER_06 2:44:56

Yeah, no, also they're family to me. I I 100% love those guys. So awesome. They're good ally.

SPEAKER_10 2:45:02

Great, great whole like quick little trip. Um, I can't wait to kind of go back. I also kind of can't wait to go to Michigan next week and go see the scene there. Go check out Lansing and go check out Detroit. Go check out fucking Monroe where my lab is. I'm gonna go make every time I go to a different state that I have a brand deal in. I I my order of doing things is I want to go into the lab and make hash with the with the at first. I really want to just watch him make the hash so I can make notes on things that I might want to change or improve. Then I want to make hash with him. Uh, and then I want to go out with the sales team and and kind of meet all the all the stores and whatnot and just uh yeah, get out there and give away product. Gotta give away a lot of product when you're a new brand, kind of breaking into markets. But the thing is, is my brand is new, but not new. It is the weirdest thing. It's very much the the weirdest thing. Detroit during movement is another world. Alright, well, I'll check it out. I can only imagine. I met a guy on the plane on my way home, an old guy. He was in the 70s. He was he was in Detroit just looking at buying multi-home, multi-family homes, like six to eight units, like not duplexes or triplexes, but whatever you call them. I guess they're like small apartments. I can buy them for like 300 grand in the US right now. Like a that's pretty pretty wild. Do I know where I'm coming when I go to Missouri? Yes, I'll be going to St. Louis. That's where my partner lives. Where exactly in St. Louis he lives, I don't know, but I know his house is like 170 years old or some ridiculous shit, or a hundred and something years old. So that'll be fun too. You know, you miss out when you don't get to go to America. It's weird to like it's a weird thing to only experience America through the narrative of storytelling and media and word of mouth of friends. It's different to actually go there and and bullshit executive orders like schedule three, right? No, no, we're I'm not I'm not upset about that. I had a veteran tell me that when he goes to the hospital now and he tells them that he uses cannabis, that it won't, he won't, he won't get pushed into this box of addiction, because sometimes they like to do that. And when he gets pushed into that box, he now can't access other drugs that he actually needs from the VA. I can't remember who told us that. I might have seen it at the Veterans Council meeting that Etienne was having. I don't think it was a hash church, but the fact is that for those guys, that will change that. They won't, when they tell them that they're using cannabis, once it's schedule three, they won't be put in that box anymore. So if it does nothing other than that, we we should probably celebrate it. That's uh I mean, the vets are a pretty important uh group of people in America, in my opinion. You guys sent them off to kill and be killed. Uh let's take care of them when they come back. Like, holy fucking shit. I never understood America's push for patriotism. I I th I thought it was cool. It's like, wow, you guys, like, yeah, America, it's our country. Like, we built it, we fought for it. But then these guys come back from war and you just kick them to the gutter. It's like, holy shit, like, there is a hole in patriotism in a big way. There's part, I guess it's like anything. You know, there's always something good within it, and then a bunch of other shit gets packed on on the outside. I always use the example of Ray Crock or the McDonald's people, those original guys, they just wanted to make nice burgers available for people, and uh, it ended up turning into like this robotic machine of poisonous food that's just like fucking a tear on the social fabric of the entire world. But it started as a good thing. Sure. You know, yeah, we get more.

SPEAKER_06 2:49:04

Yeah, I think that's a healthy perspective. I mean, there's a lot of um opinions flying around. I mean, obviously, I'd love to hear where Dr. Marx, you know, his head's at.

SPEAKER_10 2:49:14

I mean, obviously, there's well, his head is that he hates Trump, so anything Trump does can't be good, and I totally am okay with that, but because I've seen it on the other side too, like, oh, I hate the uh whatever who's the last guy, Biden. There was people on the Trump side, oh, I hate I hate Biden, and nothing he can do is good. But I don't think that's a healthy way to live. I think we have to find the the way, I think we have to find more ways to make each other happy than to find things to be upset about. And I in this world, can I find a lot of things to be upset about?

SPEAKER_06 2:49:48

If I the one thing that I was thinking about is like, you know, I I had a perspective or I have a perspective on the VA because I went through it with my dad and he had Parkinson's, and I dealt with getting ropodopa and all these different um drugs that we needed for him prescribed, and and we couldn't talk about cannabis at all, even though it was and why do you think that was? Because of the you know, we all know why, because of the stream.

SPEAKER_05 2:50:12

Because you would lose you would lose access to everything.

SPEAKER_06 2:50:16

You would lose literally every schedule one. And we're talking about a guy who was a first lieutenant, dude. Like this guy led people into bloody battle. Like, this is not some dude who's like, yeah, I kind of was on a ship and I like got out there and I came back. Like he was out there in the like painting his face with like mud and like you know, with a pistol in his hand and two guys. So if you went in there and told him that, we would lose literally everything, as you're you know, highlighted, Marcus. And I think it's really important to highlight here that the system is so complex that what's good for someone else may be bad for another. But I think that you can't please everyone. But what I see is uh for what you just brought up, Marcus, is a is a a glimmer of hope for those individuals to actually have patient access, which is you know, as you highlighted, is super important because it it literally, like you said, was it's it's black and white. It's either you say it or you don't, you know, lose it all or keep it and try to try to work with it.

SPEAKER_10 2:51:19

Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. I don't pretend to understand the depth of it, but I've been able to find that one little gem which was given to me by the Veterans Council at TAMS Group. Sorry for forgetting it might have been Michael, like I don't know exactly who it was, but they they opened, I just saw a totally unique perspective. I was like, okay, I'll fight for that. That's that's what I'll stay positive for. Uh of course it's not great. So oh, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 2:51:44

Well, I was just gonna say, like, okay, so with all that said, right, Dr. Mark, what's telling talk to me. Talk to me about where Oh God. Yeah, because like I want to say you know what I mean? And and be real.

SPEAKER_03 2:51:58

I'm gonna say so many different things. I don't know what I don't even know where to start. Let's start slow. Let's go, Dr.

SPEAKER_10 2:52:04

Let's let's not first of all, we're not gonna get deep into politics. I just really want to hear your perspective on why you are upset about the schedule three versus it being schedule three.

SPEAKER_03 2:52:15

I'm not I'm not upset, I'm not upset about anything, Marcus. I'm not upset about that, and I'm all about you know increasing access to the plant. Everybody knows that, you know, that that's that that's in my heart.

SPEAKER_10 2:52:27

Well, okay, not upset, but you made you made a comment when you said, Do you remember what you said exactly?

SPEAKER_03 2:52:34

Oh, I just said, you know, I mean, this executive order is shiny objects to improve his like the fake assassination last night and the fake assassination a couple months ago. I mean, this is all just theater and bullshit. It's all just this is. People aren't gonna get their weed that way. You know, and is the is the recreational uh, you know, adult use, I mean, what does that mean? Now you supposedly have to have everything registered through the DEA, meaning that all medical cannabis, the if you read the the executive order and you read like the uh what they what they're talking about in terms of rolling out the rules, is that everything's got to go through the DEA. And it's like that's not gonna work. How is that gonna work? How is the logistics of that gonna be practical on the ground? It's just it's just not. Like, I think the biggest question about it, and again, I'm not trying to get it.

SPEAKER_10 2:54:32

Ours works, and ours goes through Health Canada, and Health Canada is just really like.

SPEAKER_03 2:54:37

You guys have a completely different, you guys just you have a different concept of what hemp is, just Canada's just got it so much better than we have it down here. I think one of the issues down here is that there's a lot of people who are making a lot of money, just kind of like you were talking about veterans, you know. What Bernie Sanders says is if you can't afford to take care of your veterans, you shouldn't afford to send those people to war in the first place, right? Uh-huh. And and and and so again, I think with cannabis, I mean, what I'd like to think is that moving it to Schedule Three, the best thing that's come out of that is that now they have to admit, they have to admit that there's medical use, right? That there is accepted medical use. We've always known that there's been medical use, right? The US government's own uh patent. I guess if you look at the language of the Controlled Substance Act, it has to be accepted medical use. So it's like, or approved medical use. So what does that mean? That means uh FDA approval. Well, how can Marinol, which is derived which is THC, derive from uh uh cannabis and and now CBD and epidiolex, which is derived from a different variety of cannabis, how can those be FDA approved, but the plant from which they're derived still be schedule one. So, yeah, believe me, I don't agree with it being on the schedule. I'm a Dschedule person. I'd I'd like to see it completely removed from the schedule. Maybe moving it to Schedule III is a step in that direction. That's it. But there's also a huge concern. There's a huge concern that there is no schedule three drug that's not delivered today throughout the entirety of the market that comes from a botanical substance. Schedule three drugs are all synthetic.

SPEAKER_10 2:56:38

Because guess what? In Canada, 90% of medical patients get their medicine from the recreational market. So try and imagine this the schedule change proves that it's medicinal. This is what's going to happen with medicinal. There's all these companies that will invest in patients and medicine and cannabis' medicine. This is exactly what happened in Canada, by the way. Big money, big companies, you know, legacy people. They're going to be so because it's the only way they can sell. There's no before there's no wreck, they're going to be really focused on medical. The second a recreational program opens up, which will not be controlled by the DEA, it'll be state controlled. It'd be different. And that's those medical companies will disappear overnight and jump ship to the wreck. And it's exactly what happened here. Everyone claimed medical, medical, medical. Dude, even Shoppers Drug Mart, which is owned by Loblaws, they're like a$55 billion company. Exactly, dude. There's no Schedule III drug sold by that's a plant. They they thought they were going to distribute and sell weed after investing millions of dollars in like six or seven or eight years. They had a whole section. They left cannabis in Canada because recreational, suddenly there was like 8,000 stores. Why would you go to the pharmacy just to save on taxes? It's like fuck that. There's like way more option at the rec store. So it's it really the rec stores threaten the medical platform. To me, I think when I think medical, that's gonna be like pharmaceutical companies creating drugs that most of us may or may never take. We'll always just be, we'll just access all the amazing products we can by growing our own. Under usually, once you get medical, then it follows rec. And once you get those two, then you get licenses, personal licenses, so you can grow your own cannabis. Once you have those three, man, you are laughing. And in in in that way, you're never gonna get there if cannabis is on schedule one. And so to complain that it didn't get descheduled, yes, it's an argument that we could all make, but it's it's heading in the right direction, like one to three, it's medical. Dr. David Allen said, I don't care anything about anything, they now have to admit that it has medical properties. That's what that guy was fighting for for 10 years when they threw him in prison in Mississippi and stripped him of his fucking medical license. You know, that guy was saving human lives by operating on their hearts, and all he wanted them to do was acknowledge that cannabis was a medicine and had medicinal properties, and so he's also as a veteran of the drug war, not of the um, you know, any other wars. I don't know if you guys have ever seen Dr. David Allen's little drug war veteran um patches that he makes. He usually sends, I think he was a veteran as well, though. I I'd have to ask him again. I don't remember, but yeah, he was. Anyway, yeah, that's enough about that. But um, it's good to see you, dude. You should tell me a little bit about that field you're in front of because it looks like uh like Remo plants.

SPEAKER_03 2:59:49

Did you just pull it off the internet or is it like in Vermont? No, that was actually uh I took that picture uh oh god, almost 10 years ago. This was a uh Amish farm out on the eastern shore of beautiful Maryland. Yeah, no, it was actually it was a high CBG variety, and it was really strange, Marcus. So I uh that day that I took that picture, I grabbed uh cola off of one of the plants and brought it back to the lab and just did a quick um, you know, I just threw some dry ice into ethanol, so I got the ethanol really cold and I just did a cold extraction because I wanted to see what cannabinoids were were in there. And man, I got the ethanol extract without winterizing at all and and stripped it down on the roto and put it on a vacuum and ended up with an off-white yellowish powder. And I was like, what the fuck is this? And I had it analyzed and it was 99.8% pure CBG. The only impurity that was in there was a little bit of T I'm sorry, C BGA. So it was 99.8% pure C BGA. I was like, holy shit. Are they pulling that down early to get such a high? Well, I it it was early when I went out there and I said, we were interested in the CBGA. I said, harvest that shit now. And they harvested it, and a week later, the analysis from the lab came back and there was already like almost 3.5% THC in there. So just in a matter of a week, the the contents of that tricode changed quite significantly. Yeah, that was that was an interesting field. Anyway, that's the story there. Yeah, so just not not to beat a dead horse, but just to go back to the rescheduling thing, you know, they say it's gonna make research better and research easier. I'm not really too sure of that. I do research in this area, so for me, that's well, you're gonna be able to tell us if it's true or not.

SPEAKER_10 3:02:02

In the next two years, you'll be able to literally bring to Hash Church the pros and cons of what happened by changing it. For me, I love that we're changing things. I love to hear about things. When we started talking about legalization and recreation and medical and all this stuff in Canada, I was a bit of a pessimist. And as I watched it go through, I remember them saying, it now has gone to the queen's descent. The queen of England now has to sign off on cannabis being legal in Canada because we are a Commonwealth. So forget about a president. The fucking Queen of England, bro, had to sign off on us getting weed legally. And I was so like, there's no way she's gonna do it. There's no way that she's gonna do it. And she she did it. I they they they showed the picture of her signing it, and I, yeah, it was all entertainment and it was all a show. Uh, and to this day, Mark, Dr. Mark, there are people in Canada who complain about how cannabis was, you know, it's like it's like there's all these people trying their best to just move things forward, and then there's all these other people who are criticizing on how they're doing it and how it's not as good as they should have done it, but they're not doing that thing. It's like, dude, if there's a better way to do it, by all means, someone please show me in the meantime, get behind the people that are doing it and just let's push it as far as we humanly can. Would I love to see it descheduled? Yes. Would I love to see it turned into an agricultural product? Absolutely. Would I love to see it, you know, deregulated to as much as we could deregulate it without allowing super sketchy people to poison end users by spraying, you know, like there's still regulations we can all agree that are required. We can't just trust people to grow weed and sell it in an open market without testing. You would agree with that, wouldn't you, Dr. Mark?

SPEAKER_03 3:04:00

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. Totally, totally. Yeah. What I well, I I want to see the preservation of people like Masonic. I want to see to make sure that, you know, the the the small guy doesn't get squashed by the Walgreens and the Pfizers. Because I think, you know, again, uh there's some interpretation of, okay, it gets moved to Schedule III. Schedule three is an FDA-approved manufacturer, like pharmaceutical companies. This could be big pharma's play. I I don't know about that, and I still think that there's, you know, again, some wiggle room in the language in which they roll out these new hemp regulations, so-called hemp here in the States, which is just type three cannabis, you know, high CBD variety. But I'm really eager, you know, I'm going to CanMad. Um, I know Colin, you're gonna be there too. We'll ask the doctors, like you know, bonnie and Jean Talleyrand. We'll we'll ask these doctors and say, hey, is this moving to schedule three, increasing access for your patients? If it is, I'm all for it. I'm all for people increasing access to cannabis and cannabinoids, however that happens. And if this is the step towards where I'd like to see things go, which is descheduling, then yeah, I guess that's sort of like a necessary step. You got to go here first before you go there.

SPEAKER_10 3:05:27

But yeah, and the only other thing I'd say about research, how do we deschedule? What work, like Etienne, right? Etienne's our guy, he's the guy that says, don't just talk about it, fucking do it. Because I'm having a conversation with bingo here right now. So bingo, Dr. Mark, and anyone else that wants to chime in. What can we do? What pathway do you guys see to deschedule? Because it's easy to say it should be descheduled. You're right, of course. No one could deny, no one could argue with you that you are right about the fact that cannabis should be descheduled. My question isn't that, it's the fact that okay, these someone somehow got it down to three. How do we get it to a deschedule? Because we can't just hope or wish. What would we do? Because I honestly don't know. I mean, Etienne would probably have the fucking answers, like at least the direction that we we should head. But what would you say, uh, Dr. Martin?

SPEAKER_03 3:06:22

Well, I think part of it too. I mean, the back end of the executive order does talk about compliance with treaties, and I know that's kind of like where ATN is with that with the talking with the UN, which is that we have to be able to have compliance within these international treaties, or else, you know, the international treaties are meaningless. I don't know. Ask any Native American if you know the treaties that were put in place with the United States government actually help them, you know, or preserve their culture and preserve their lifestyle. I mean, there's a lot of doublespeak here, and I think again, like when you when you just when you think about again, we're gonna talk just about politics for a second, just think about like the current news cycle and the current, you know, like what's in the news and and what needs to be said, and you know, there's a lot of discussion after an executive order like this is made because everyone in it, not just in in Trump's orbit, but everyone in the orbit of the government's trying to figure out, okay, what does this really mean? I mean, when they did the original descheduling thing, uh, you know, the the former attorney general, Pambotti, was supposed to like take care of this and supposed to do it in expedited fashion. So it's like, okay, didn't happen in expedited fashion. You know what, a couple months go by, time for another executive order. Basically, read the executive order, people. What you'll see is that what the executive order calls for is some hearings with the DEA. Oh, okay. So, some hearings with the DEA? How's that gonna go?

SPEAKER_10 3:08:03

So, I mean, like, keep in mind that when you say the DEA, Sam just dealt with the DEA. He got DEA export licenses, he plied with them, he dealt with them for years and years and years, never had a single complaint. It allowed him to move his. It's you gotta keep an open mind that, you know, yes, the DEA that we they I suspect the DEA will change. They're not, they're gonna, they're gonna morph, they're gonna change into a different thing with cannabis, just like it happened here in Canada.

SPEAKER_03 3:08:32

Think about all the people who are sitting in jail today. Sitting in jail today. They had nothing in there about releasing cannabis, people with cannabis offenses who are locked up forever. I mean, to get the city. So, how do you feel about how your society is going when they decriminalize this and move this to Schedule III? But I'm sitting in a jail cell because I tried to feed my family by selling some weed.

SPEAKER_10 3:09:00

You know, well, it's still there's people in Canada that are going through the same thing. We have people in jail that sold cannabis. So, what I'm saying is if that's something that touches you, is it more effective to complain about it or more effective to do something about it? Like, are you going to prisons? Like, you're a smart guy. You've written papers and stuff. You might be able to move the needle on like if that's and and Hashchurch would be very much in getting behind something like that. Like getting, I think that's what Steve D'Angelo is doing with the Last Prisoner project. I think some of the stuff that Etienne is doing, you know, you speak a good uh a good point in the sense that, okay, there's people in prison right now for cannabis. Um, I suspect schedule three is in the right, you know, the right direction. Maybe the descheduling and the prison thing are combined in the sense of like maybe those people can never get out until it's descheduled. That being said, here in Canada, when it went federally legal, the way the law works is it doesn't matter if it's legal now, it was illegal then. That's why the profit margin, that's why you were involved in the black market, that's why you were involved in whatever. And so you just end up like the people I knew were just like, if I get caught with this, I I'm I'm making so much profit because the worry is jail. That's what the profit margin was based on. It was based, and if you go to New York or Texas, you see you get so much money for the pounds because you'll do 10 fucking years if you get caught. So I I kind of see both sides of it in the sense that I all I want is for cannabis to be left alone. But after watching how it's happened in Canada, you know, and also the old school Sam mentality. I'm less worried how it's controlled or who controls it. I want to just see one direction, forward motion. I don't care if it's a millimeter or seven feet or seven miles. I prefer seven miles. I just want forward motion. And every time I see it, like for instance, the schedule three thing was trippy. What do you think about the ibogain thing?

SPEAKER_03 3:11:09

Oh yeah. Uh uh, yeah. So my my cynical take on the ibogain thing.

SPEAKER_10 3:11:14

No, no, I'm not asking for your cynical take. I would love your personal opinion. I would love to hear something.

SPEAKER_03 3:11:19

My personal opinion is the same as my cynical take, which is that he's just trying to win back to Joe Rogan.

SPEAKER_10 3:11:25

I don't know, no, no, but remove him. I know I saw that. Remove him from the category. I'm not asking about what you think about Joe Rogan or Trump. I know exactly how you feel. Try to see through the hatred you have for them, the disdain, maybe. The disdainment.

SPEAKER_03 3:11:39

You have it all wrong, Mark. I don't disdain anybody.

SPEAKER_10 3:11:42

Yeah, you hate fascists. You hate fascism.

SPEAKER_03 3:11:44

I have no hate in my heart at all. Well, it's disdain.

SPEAKER_10 3:11:47

You can hear it in your voice, Mark. You can hear it in your voice. You can say those words, but the disdain you have and the reason like I'm asking you a question about what you think about eyeball game becoming legal, and you're talking about Joe Rogan and Trump. I don't give a fuck about those guys. They might have been mechanisms to make it happen. I'm asking what you think about Eibel Game becoming accessible and legal to people.

SPEAKER_03 3:12:10

I think that that has to happen through the legislative branch of our government and not by executive order. The executive branch is there to execute the laws that are generated by Congress. This government is so dysfunctional today. Sorry to talk about politics today, that basically the legislature and the judicial have been overwhelmed by the executive branch. So we have a non-functional government, and I think that this is all part of the you know, dysfunctionality of what's going on in Washington, D.C. today. You know, yeah. Well, okay, so my respect. I'll say this though. Should psychedelics be taken off the list? Absolutely. Am I all for access to psychedelics for treating PTSD? That's my opinion. Absolutely, absolutely. Never not even PTSD.

SPEAKER_10 3:13:02

I want everyone to have access to psychedelics. And I'm I am so when I saw that once again, I was like, it was like the queen signing the dissent or whatever it's called for legal cannabis in Canada. I just never thought I would see the day.

SPEAKER_03 3:13:17

But in the same week that that happened, yeah, he got rid of the the National Science Board, which is basically the science board that oversees the National Science Foundation. This is this should be alarming to scientists and non-scientists alike. It should be alarming to not only Americans, but to everyone. These people are basically trying to put patsies into positions that basically control the funding of science, and I'm not about that at all. And and so we should all be writing our congressmen to let them know that this is unacceptable. There you go, action. That's the way we've got to have action. Yeah, exactly. The action mode, that's the action. Elections matter, congressmen. Action.

SPEAKER_10 3:14:03

Yeah. Action. Um, yeah. I, you know, people are like Bubble Man's MAGA. Dude, I don't give a fuck about the orange man. I don't give a fuck about Joe Rogan. I sit on the fence in a different way. I don't give a fuck about my politics. I don't really like them at all. I don't like the way um I see America going in a very specific way. I see Canada going in a very specific way. I like people. And when you discuss these things that are created and meant to divide, they divide. That's what they do. If you read the chat right now, it's totally divided. And it's one of the first times we've divided the chat so much because we've gone down this little pathway. And it's interesting that if you not necessarily um um not necessarily defend or even promote Trump, but maybe just promote and say, I think one of the things he did was good, you become mega. And that is so anti-vaccine fucking mentality. And I went through it for COVID. I didn't get vaccinated, and I watched all these big loudmouth motherfuckers tell everyone they had to get vaccinated, and then they all looked like assholes when they were absolutely wrong, and the vaccine companies came out and said the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission. I still fought for all my friends who wanted to get the vaccines. I would never blast my friends for wanting to get a vaccine, but I'll tell you, the people who didn't get vaccines got blasted by the people, some of the people who did. And I see a lot of that same sickening mentality in politics. You can't even defend one. We should be pulling and going towards the middle instead of spending all of our time on the outer edges of these extreme wings that clearly just divide us. 100% divide us. I live in a it's happening in my own neighborhood, uh, Dr. Mark. Not on a large level, like uh uh uh uh like uh I always forget the names of your guys' uh Democrats and Republicans and liberals and conservatives here in Canada, but in my village of a thousand people since COVID, because COVID was the real psyop that divided people into either side, like, oh, I'm not getting vaccinated, I am getting vaccinated. Families got broken up, grandparents didn't get to see their grandchildren, like real bullshit happened because of that. And it was a it it moved right into what's happening now. And in my village, and it's not green or blue or red, it's just literally like our small town council has been fractioned for the last five years since COVID. And because of it, my village is suffering, they don't know how to get along. And when someone brings something up, because of who they are and the disdain that someone has for them, they make sure that no matter what, they say as many negative things about them and destroy the thing they're trying to put forward, and they're both just doing that on both sides. And I'm sitting here going, this is literally how we did things in like grade three. Like we have got to be more intelligent. And I think the most important um discourse when it comes to the political level, because when I ask you, Dr. Mark, like how do we change these things? Obviously, I don't have access to the people at the highest level of politics, but I think it changes in our municipalities first, in our villages and in our towns and in our cities. There's smaller government, the people that you have to live with, basically. When I go out in the world and I meet people, I feel like I'm on the same page of 99% of the people that I meet. But when I go on the internet, I try, I feel like I'm it's less because I don't want to pick a side. I end up in this 1% on the fence. And then there's always one side who will hate you if you're on your fence on the fence because they'll see you as on the other side. And then there's some other people on that other side that will also hate you because you're on your on the fence. But yeah, I just uh I think people need to. Relax, take a fucking dab, breathe easy, and try to find as many things in your day to be grateful for than you are cynical about. And that is my let's take a dab right now, actually, because I feel like I need one. Yeah. There, here's a go. Here's a guy on the line right now. Ken R5262. I'm far from MAGA, but since I don't hate the whole Trump regime, my sister thinks I'm the problem. This is a bummer. We gotta be careful. Turning on our loved ones and our families because of these. You gotta understand that when you're getting riled up about politics and you think you're right, you're being played. Both sides are playing us. They have since the beginning of time. I remember when Bill Clinton bombed a fucking aspirin factory in Africa and just like came on the news and apologized for it. And the next two days later, he was shoving cigars into vaginas. People loved him. You know, I remember lots of things about cigar, uh, about presidents and prime ministers over the years that have I can't look back at too many in my own country and think, wow, you know, that guy did a great job for everyone. It's politics, you know what Peter Tosh called politics. He called them politrix, and he called it the shitstum, the po political. I think we have to have some some comfort in being able to just talk about it, you know, and but I don't know because the comfort is so vile and disgusting, and it gets so out of hand so fast, and one side seems intent on vi like it's it sometimes it goes to violence. Well, you saw it in LA. These guys are fucking fighting about their brands, dude. They're getting so routed. Did you see hear about the fight in LA at the cannabis event?

SPEAKER_06 3:19:52

Yeah, that was so accurate.

SPEAKER_10 3:19:53

I know I'm asking Dr. Mark if he heard about it. Yeah, I mean, I saw it. You saw it. Okay, so I don't know anything about the politics of that particular event. I don't know. I heard it was as silly as someone said your doinks aren't as good as my doinks, and that was it. Fucking fisticuffs were were flying. So I don't know exactly what happened, but I do know that it's very easy to say certain words and then change the way people feel and think about you, even though you yourself haven't changed as a person. And I really, really felt it during COVID because I didn't get vaccinated during COVID. Um, I was very much not the person who was like going around, you know, talking to everyone, saying you shouldn't get vaccinated. You know, I I, you know, two of my children got vaccinated. I would never try to control anyone's mentality when it comes to that. But what I did feel was that the other side very much wanted to control me to get vaccinated. The pressure was incredible. And everyone I knew on the side of not wanting to get vaccinated said they felt that pressure, that there was this enormous pressure. And what I'm trying to explain to people is there is a psyop out there controlling the way we think. And when it turns us against one another and you still don't see it, that is a very fucking dangerous game. The CIA back 20 years ago used a blue light on a screen to create violence in chimpanzees. You can Google this, it's a crazy story. It's literally the same frequency of blue light that all of our televisions and screens and telephones use. Now, I'm not trying to go down the conspiracy hole. I'm just saying that these things are open for possibility. If we think the DEA and some of these groups are as bad as they are, who knows what level of manipulations there are out there? I don't pretend to um think I'll ever know. What I try to do is I try to live a cognitive life. I try to share in really good experiences with people. I know that when I go to Boston and we're just talking about lobster and restaurants and wine and dabs that I'm having a great time. And that if anyone starts bringing up anything else like political, then I'm not having a great time. And if there's eight people at the table, six and four, or four and four, or five, three, and there's gonna be some division along the way. And it's just like, oh man, that's no good. So I guess it's um it's a it's a it's a way for us all to learn and navigate because we all have family members as well. This would be one thing if it was just like, hey, you know what? I'm just linking up with my crew, they all think like me. But I think the biggest value in the world, like Dr. Mark said, is when we can talk about things. And one of the things that politics has poisoned is our ability to do that. We don't seem to be able to do it without getting so, so very upset with one another that uh it's one of the reasons why in my village I like everyone. And I'll I'll talk with people and they'll be like, oh, what about so and so and so-and-so? Like they're so offended the way these people think because of a perspective they have about them that they can't have them in their lives. And I'm like, actually, dude's actually a really nice dude. He plays guitar, invited me over to his pool. Like he's like he's he's a nice dude. Have you ever talked to him? It's like, no, I don't like the way he thinks about certain things. So I guess it's free will. We all get to think the way we want.

SPEAKER_06 3:23:17

We need our emotional spirit animal, the dab, right now. Um I think everybody should pack that into their bowl.

SPEAKER_10 3:23:25

Well, what are you packing?

SPEAKER_06 3:23:27

Um I was gonna do because I have in front of me some of that super booth that I gave you. But I was gonna get your jar, but it's just on the other side of my house right now. I was digging into it last night. Right before bed, it's delicious. You know, if you're not picking up Bubble Man brand into Colorado, you need to.

SPEAKER_10 3:23:50

I'll go get some. Oh wait, you weren't talking. There's some great hash makers in Boston. Like I was I was really quite uh happy.

SPEAKER_06 3:24:03

Whole Northeast, dude. The whole Northeast is just quality people.

SPEAKER_10 3:24:07

Great talent, good growers, great chefs, too, great food, like spectacular food, man.

SPEAKER_06 3:24:15

New York is coming up, you know, some good people coming out of the woodwork. It's it's be I'm getting better and better jars from people, which is cool.

SPEAKER_10 3:24:22

It'll be very cool when you guys go federal down there. That will be a very cool thing because of the ability to move over the border without worry. And that's the thing that's nice in Canada. Um that I can just like mail an ounce to my uncle as a gift. You know what I mean? It's not uh mailing things in America. I was talking to someone about this because it's state, it doesn't matter if you're mailing to one state that's medical to a state next door that's medical. The pull the the mail is federal, and that's federal mail fraud, if you put anything like that in there. Not like I'm trying to be a stickler and I'm just like you know, be careful. It's definitely I know there's banking, that's a big problem. There's a bunch of different things that need to be lifted, which will be lifted when federal legalization comes to um America, and it's definitely coming. One of the big ones is definitely banking.

SPEAKER_06 3:25:18

That is, you know, I think scheduling does that actually. It's one of the mechanisms that is actually a plus for those that are actually on the that own licenses because it'll um it'll help with your write-offs and your equipment purchases, which is I think changes a lot.

SPEAKER_03 3:25:34

Um you know, but yeah, but will you st will you still be licensed?

SPEAKER_06 3:25:39

That's the that's so that's what I was I was thinking about.

SPEAKER_10 3:25:42

That you know, well it's sure easy to get licenses here. You know, people worried oh, only the big companies will be able to get them, they're not gonna allow craft. Craft is a huge part of the Canadian cannabis scene. The big companies exist, some of them folded, some of them bought each other. They're big, they're there, but there's a lot of craft companies in Canada. Like it's actually really cool. I would say most of the events I go to are really craft company events. They're still, and even companies like Rubicon Organics, they're a bigger company, they're pretty big, uh, but they do really quality flour and resin. Now, Pearsun Farms are monsters. That's village farms. They are a monster company, and they're selling you know, their flour and their products aren't quite at that highest level, but they're filling the gap, selling like$80 to$100 ounces, you know,$80 Canadian dollar ounces. That's like people love that shit, dude. They're really they're really stoked about that. They're not the people to go on Reddit and be like, look at how many small buds I got. It's like, dude, it's an$80 ounce. Like, just I think you should probably be happy. But it didn't, it didn't happen here, is all I'm saying. The big companies didn't take over with all their buddies and own the industry. There are tons of companies that have like legacy companies that are on the market.

SPEAKER_03 3:26:59

Well, there's there's there's no there's no schedule in Canada, right? Isn't that right?

SPEAKER_10 3:27:04

Well, we signed the peace and drug treaty, so what we had to do was we had to get the queen to remove us from that. Uh, and yeah, we have uh everything is highly regulated, so all cannabis has to be sold with a federal tax stamp from each province, it's different, and then medical is even even more different. It has tax stamps, but it's even it's more regulated than recreational.

SPEAKER_03 3:27:29

So, who is control of the Canadian equivalent of the DEA?

SPEAKER_10 3:27:35

Well, it would be like our the RDEA is really like the FDA DEA, and that's Health Canada. They run the show, they're the ones that all the legacy people hate. They talk about them like the DEA, they're like, oh, fucking Health Canada, fucking ah, like they're connected to basically when you're when you're when it's federally legal, do you know who your business partners, like all the money partner your partner is is the IRS. So for us, it's the CRA. Our CRA, Canada Revenue, Agency, and Customs. So CRA and Customs are like intertwined in Canada, uh, Canada. So there are partners. Those tax stamps, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 3:28:20

It it's different here, and I think it's gonna it's never existed there.

SPEAKER_10 3:28:24

You guys had tax stamps back in the day. Yeah, but I'm just we have like cigarette champs it'll be the same as cigarettes and alcohol when it goes recreational.

SPEAKER_06 3:28:33

That's how it'll go. That red stamp uh Dr. Mark on the bottom of cigarettes, you know. Um, that's a particular tax.

SPEAKER_03 3:28:41

Yeah, so I mean, to to me, it does make sense to put it in that thing called tobacco, alcohol, and firearms, i.e., the things that government can't regulate, right? Alcohol, tobacco, fire, don't know what to do with these things. So you know what? We're gonna put them all together, right? Yeah, so now it's gonna be tobacco, alcohol, firearms, and cannabis, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:29:04

And weed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 3:29:07

Perfect, uh, perfect uh, you know. Department of Vice. The department of vice. Yeah, well, you know what? Listen, I'll tell you what, when it starts happening, and it happened here in Canada, the pessimism. Now, now some never stop. There are people in Canada who are pessimistic to this day. They're the ones that aren't really involved in the industry. They're not really trying to drive the industry, they're not trying to shape and direct the or steer the industry, but they're definitely complaining a lot about it. Um, we still have a big black market in Canada because of all the funding falling out of the, you know, like the DEA doesn't bring money up here anymore and pay for helicopters to, or you know, they don't have that money. That money's gone. Like it's it's gone. And you you just have to understand that, like, with the hit that alcohol is taking and how that money is shifting over, it's the swing of the inevitable pendulum. You know, you can be a little more um or a little less pessimistic in this because it might turn out, you know, not quite as bad as we think. I didn't hear, although I could bring someone on who could tell you it turned out worse than they thought, which is a subjective opinion of a person who's in a different position in the industry than I am. They might look at Canada and go, yeah, Canada just fucking it just fucking sucks.

SPEAKER_03 3:30:28

Yeah, I mean, I I was looking at a LinkedIn post from a gentleman who is a licensed cannabis dispensary but is also a licensed pharmacist. So he's got both businesses. I don't know that they're underneath the same roof. I think they're underneath different roofs, but he doesn't look at this as being a win. And he had a variety of different reasons. Again, I I I guess part of it has to be inserting the DEA into the cannabis supply chain. They just don't think that that's a a useful well.

SPEAKER_10 3:31:00

No one will care about the DEA. They'll all care about the IRS, they'll care about the taxes, nothing else. I can promise you. Because that's how it played out here. No one cares about the RCMP or the federal police, and they're they're and we all care about how much tax the CRA charges us with those fucking stamps. That's the main thing. It's the tax always. How much of my profit are you going to take? That's why he doesn't think it's a win, I can promise you.

SPEAKER_03 3:31:25

Well, no, I think he just thinks that it's problematic to put the DEA into the supply chain for medical cannabis. That's that's going to be problematic. They won't be the problem.

SPEAKER_10 3:31:35

Well, medical cannabis won't be taxed anyway. Well, my opinion, medical cannabis will fall to the wayside the minute recreational come in, and then they'll all complain about the thing that really matters. I mean, which is the tax.

SPEAKER_06 3:31:47

I think Marcus is right. Like if you look at the the way it's gone just on a state-by-state system, how what does the Fed typically do? They push it to the states, right? Look at everything that's been meaningful, it's the structure that happens first, right? And what we're about to see is there's really no different. The medical is a ploy and a stare for it's a step up to recreational, which is ultimately the goal.

SPEAKER_03 3:32:09

Well, then it's not truly a schedule three substance, okay? Right? It's not. So I mean that's not what's schedule three. Because a schedule three has to be manufactured by a FDA registered GMP inspected facility. And it's a plant, man. It ain't a plant, it's a single compound that's put into a formulation, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:32:30

But dude, like my my lab in New York is C GMP, though. So I think that we're already sort of the precursor's already there. You just have to you, you know, you have not to audit your everything in a different way, you know, and take notes.

SPEAKER_03 3:32:45

I think there's lots of things that need to happen in order for true CGMP to be out there because right now there's you can't even get reproducibility between testing labs.

SPEAKER_10 3:32:58

Part of the GMP is like Schedule Three, it's just baloney poo-poo. It's so expensive, it's so absurd, it's so ridiculous. The two things we're talking about, I guarantee you, most of us will never like we'll fight for the rights for the medical, but it won't matter if they do the medical in a way that you think is wrong because the recreational will overshadow it. The access of recreational cannabis, which kind of all dude, I was just in Boston, and you could just go buy weed in a fucking store. Like, there are so many stores that like patients. My daughter works at a dispensary. She's like, Dad, you wouldn't believe how many elderly people come in that I know for a fact would be medical patients, but the medical system is so fucked and so just convoluted, and and because they're trying to plug in cannabis into a medical system that creates a system that creates every year more cancer, every year more disease, every year less relief. The system they have built is absolutely beyond fucked. And no shit, cannabis isn't gonna fit into that system. So I'm with you on all of that. It won't matter once recreational comes in, and recreational can't come in until medical comes in. Well, I think medical will come in faster. You watch with Schedule Three, and it's like, oh, it's only medical states. You'll have people in states going, we gotta get medical, we gotta get medical, we need to have this. And so you'll get more and more. It's what happened in Canada. It was the same, same but different. Same thing because we have provinces. So we have this federal umbrella, but then we have provincial, each province has their own tax stamps, each province has sort of within reason their own, you know, limitations of what you can and can't do, even though there are an overshadowing array of rules. Like for instance, dude, we couldn't see into the weed stores for the first like five years. You had to have like cloudy windows or window coverings so you couldn't see completely. And I thought, here you have a store that has a 19-year-old girl working behind the counter, and you're going to close off the windows so the public can't see into the store. What if someone came into the store and locked the door? Now they're in the store with the door locked. Maybe they're gonna rob the place, assault the girl working there, steal a bunch of shit, and then just walk out the door. So only like a year ago, only like a year ago, um, we got to take the coverings off of our windows. And I think that might have just been in BC. I don't know if that's all across Canada. And if you guys did some research on, say, alcohol prohibition and when it ended and how slow it was to get alcohol to the point where alcohol is literally available everywhere. Like nobody sitting here could not go like two minutes out their door and buy alcohol. Like it's just so close. Um, and that took a very long time. It did not just happen overnight, and there were agencies involved, and there were regulations, and there was people that got in the way, and I'm sure the people who were ahead of them were pissed off about it. But if alcohol can travel from where it was to completely illegal, you know, and you know, kind of for the first time in the history of people like police being shot by gangsters over the profit margins of alcohol. And could in conjunction with the alcohol industry's loss, I met a guy in the wine industry recently, and he said they're taking a massive hit, 30 to 40 percent annual loss of revenue. Do you know what do you know how many billions of dollars that is? I hear it's even bigger for hard liquor. I hear it's like almost 50% loss of revenue. So that money has to go somewhere, and I think we all know where that money is going right now. I think we know the young people that aren't drinking the alcohol are buying the herb, and they're buying that herb because it's accessible. So no matter what, somehow give yourself a pat on your back, Colin and Dr. Mark and Caleb and everyone else out there that's been involved in promoting cannabis. Uh, we're moving it forward. You know, is it where we want? No, should we continue to practice civil disobedience to a degree? Um, but we should be careful in regards to how we spend our energy in regards to thinking about these subjects. And I like Dr. Mark's idea when he said about call your card. Like that was I hear action in that, and I'm like, okay, that's what we need to do. We can't just be telling people what we don't like. We gotta back it up with action. Okay, there's a good action for this, and for uh, you know, I'm sure I don't know it exactly being in Canada when it comes to trying to deschedule cannabis. I know how we did it in Canada. We got hemp growing first. From hemp, we went right to medical, right? So now we got the hemp plants growing because they don't have any THCs, so we're allowed to have those. Those plants growing changed the way people think. What do you want us? What do you think people said to me when I told them we were getting hemp growing in Manitoba finally? They said, big fucking deal, dude. There's no THC in that. What we need is to be able to grow weed. And I'm like, okay, bro, but we did get hemp growing in the province for the first time. Could we celebrate? No, we're not gonna celebrate because it should be completely legal and we should be able to plant weed in those fields. Okay, well, that's cool. You're right, and I'm gonna keep you on on that fight with you. But like, and these are the people on my side that we're first of all, when we told them we were gonna get hemp growing legally, they said, when pigs fly. That those were the people who were our supporters and our community. They said, when hell freezes over. And I said, We live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, bro. Hell freezes over every winter. What are you talking about? It took us nine months to get our first license to grow hemp. In 1994, we applied. By 1995, we had it planted, Zolotonosha 11, 13, and 15 from Goro Borotko. We moved the needle a little bit. Did it move it a lot? Well, maybe now, 30 years later, I could say it moved it a fair bit. There's grocery stores that sell hemp hearts all across Canada. It's also in America because an American company bought it. So there's tens of thousands of grocery stores that sell these de-hauled hemp hearts. We were somehow a small part of making hemp protein, this incredibly healthy protein, become available to and accessible to millions of people. And what happens when they consume it? They consume the vibration of the hemp plant. They consume the frequency of the cannabis plant. When they buy it, they see the buds, they see the picture that's behind Dr. Mark on the label, and they think that looks like marijuana. It is marijuana. It is marijuana. Oh my goodness, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's hemp. It's like marijuana without so this education process starts happening. And maybe we didn't get cannabis legal for the whole world, and it took another 20 some odd years before it happened for recreational in Canada, but I'm Fucking telling you it moved the needle, and it may not have you know made the critics as happy as they wanted to be in that moment, but we worked our asses off. I spent$25,000 of my own money importing low THC hemp seeds. Do you know how much$25,000 was to a 20-year-old kid in 1994, bro? Like, let me tell you, that was a lot. So let's just try to stay positive. When we see groups do little motions and little movements, we've always been terrible in the cannabis industry and celebrating our wins. And I'm the first to admit it, I've been guilty of it most of my life because I want it all and I want it now. And I don't think that's too much to ask for. And I'm not being sarcastic. I really do. When it comes to cannabis being free from tyranny and all the bullshit that it's been trapped in, I want it all and I want it now. But I'm mature enough to know that that's not how what's gonna happen, and that's not how I'm gonna get it. So then I got to figure out the strategy, and I really think the strategy is action. It was when we were younger. Um, hopefully, Hash Church can be a part of that action. Hopefully, younger people that are listening to this conversation can hear it for more than just senseless bitching and moaning and picking sides. Hopefully, you guys can hear the depth of what we're trying to talk about because I fucking love Dr. Mark. I love Dr. Mark's perspective, I love Dr. Mark's intelligence. I have a huge appreciation uh for his mentorship because he's mentored me uh a great deal over the years and uh having him on Hash Church. And I feel the same way about Colin and young Caleb, who's new to the group. I want to learn from everyone. I don't want to be preaching, but I do want us to figure out a way to execute. I I heard a guy, I heard Mike Tyson say this to a kid one time. He was like a gangster guy. And Mike goes, uh, what would you do if someone did you wrong? And I can't remember the question. Maybe it was like hurt your lady, or it was some like heinous wrong. And he said, What would you do? And the guy's like, Oh, I fucking kill him, man. I go out and I get him. And and Mike Tyson's like, Oh, so you let the devil change you. And that profound statement of like, oh, what did he just say? You'd let the devil change you. So your reaction to an experience can either be plus or negative, it can either be a valuable lesson or a costly mistake. I think of the costly mistake as the metaphorical demon or devil in your ear. And we gotta learn to not listen to that voice. And I think that voice was deep and loud during COVID, and I think it's deep and loud in today's politics, both in the Canadian and US uh environment. We gotta find the love and we gotta maintain the authenticity. Uh and we get sucked into these fucking uh whatever you want to call it. Uh, I feel like it robs us of our authenticity. I feel like when I talk about it, I'm at my lowest. When Mark talks about it, he's at his lowest. Like when Mark talks chemistry, and I can see him glowing and I can see him emanating out this it's authenticity. I think we call it love, but I think it's really authenticity. When Mark talks about the Grateful Dead and he talks about psychedelics and he talks about fish, the authenticity that is coming off of him, the on the other side, when he talks about the things that are upsetting him like in a great deal, and I understand the love and the passion, I feel less authenticity in that. I feel like that's not Dr. Mark. That's like something that's slightly possessing Dr. Mark. It's taking his good energy and it's inverting it. And I've had it happen to me too, dude. I have it happen on the regular, and we just got to figure out a way to fucking avoid it because we're here for a short time, not a long time. And I think it's why we dab and eat good food and spend time with people we love because the more we're laughing and the more we're smiling, the better we feel. There's just no doubt about it. I'm on a real self-help fucking rant today, aren't I?

SPEAKER_06 3:43:55

Like just going off. Anyway, I keep reading these headlines as I was talking about how everybody can ship can pharmaceutical grade across the pond now, and that's sort of misleading.

SPEAKER_10 3:44:09

So well, isn't the news always misleading?

SPEAKER_06 3:44:12

It's just totally misleading.

SPEAKER_10 3:44:14

Have you ever been in the news? Have you ever been in the news? Like on the newspaper in an article. Okay, so I have, and let me tell you, it was when I got arrested with my uh my my kilos on this. So this was a real news story. This wasn't like someone like, hey, Bubble Man, we want to interview you for an article. Were you doing this? Is like a news story that is being written about you, and you have no control about what's written, and they're not calling you to find out anything. So a true news story, bro. They made so many mistakes. In fact, I even got them, I can't remember what it's called, when they have to acknowledge they made a mistake and like retract, or there's like a word in the media where they redact. Yeah, they put no redacts when you put the blackout. Anyway, what they did was they announced in like a pizza, uh, it was the North Shore News, and it was a an episode uh uh an issue many years, uh like months, if not more than a year later, they finally wrote it. It was a small little paragraph, and it was like in the issue of this month, in this year, of Mark Richardson's story. They just they they wrote back what they made a mistake on, but they made three mistakes in my news story, and it made me go, okay, first of all, I'm nobody, and they got three things wrong. I thought, how many fucking and it makes sense, like don't get it. I'm not don't get it mixed up. I'm not criticizing the the um journalist. The world is complicated and it's vast and it's big, and depending on your level of awareness, you're either gonna pick things more things up or you're gonna pick up less things. And he managed to miss like two or three pretty prime things, and so he just kind of altered them and made them up and got the amount of money I had wrong, and got the amount of flour I had wrong, and he got the time that I was pulled over wrong. Like he got he got enough things wrong that if he was the policeman writing all of this down, I would have been let go for for for completely because um nothing would have added up to what they charged me with. So um, good story in a sense. I ended up with no time and no fine. I got my cash given back that I donated to the BC Compassion Club. Shout out to Hillary Black, someone who truly took action. Compassion is a verb, as Wade Laughter tells us. And uh Hillary really took action on that. She kind of gave up her ability to have success, to have family, to have all of these things that many of us search for. She sort of sacrificed her youth and really to these most vulnerable people on the streets of Vancouver and selling them cannabis. Uh, the BC Compassion Club was quite an amazing thing. Uh, moved the needle a big way. It's totally why we got federal legalization for medical before anyone else, uh, or at least, you know, in North America before the US. Uh, we really managed to move the needle because of the work that Hillary did. And for me, my blessing was that I just got to be a small part of it by like gifting cannabis. You know, it was like, well, I got a bunch of cannabis. How can I be a part of it? She's like, I don't know, you want to donate something? I'm like, Oh, I could donate cannabis. It was like the greatest feeling ever when you're in service of others. It's truly, I think people get it. The see, when you're in service of others in an authentic way, it feeds your soul. When you virtue signal and you act like that's authentic, that steals from your soul. That creates a hole in your soul when you virtue signal, you know. So we got to do less virtue signaling and more uh action of of maintaining an authenticity in the things that we say and the things that we do. Um yeah, I really feel that this uh just about being authentic and being real. So I get along with all you guys, you're totally authentic. You are who you are, you're definitely not actors. When I met Caleb in Vegas in Vegas, which is I'm could it will be funny forever because that we'll never be able to change that, Caleb. We'll we will always have met in Vegas, and we just I felt like Caleb and I were two of the most non-vegas, like never to be corrupted. Like it could be the most amazing movie if you made like a hangover style movie with Caleb and I as the main characters, and we're just these like sort of pothead guys that went to Vegas, but then did get corrupted, and then have the whole madness of us just going through like Vegas corruption because we're just walking slow, huffing, like completely in this alien world. Like I just met Caleb on the moon or something, right? Keep in mind, you probab you've been there lots, right? Like, aren't you even from Nevada or something?

SPEAKER_01 3:48:56

Yeah, I lived in Reno. I've lived in Vegas for like a year total, and that's that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_10 3:49:01

And what like do you feel that you fit into Vegas, or do you feel like you're like more like uh like a relaxed? I don't picture you like a Vegas guy. Like I there's so many people just like drinking and smoking darts and like hitting the the buttons on the on the on the games, and you're just like I'm not engaging in any of this. Is there a big community of people in in Vegas that really don't engage in any of that um corrupt corruptible behavior?

SPEAKER_01 3:49:28

Definitely for like the townies in Vegas, they go to the strip like once a year around Christmas when someone's visiting. Yeah, they just avoid that side of town altogether. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_10 3:49:40

I wished I could have gone and met some like seen that part of Vegas. I meant to hit up Trichrome Tortoise, but uh we we were pretty busy, like I barely got out of those hotels, let alone like drive into like a rural neighborhood of Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 3:49:57

Yeah, Vegas really is the the meeting spot. That's also where I met Dr. Mark exactly the year before. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_10 3:50:04

Have you met Colin yet?

SPEAKER_01 3:50:06

No, not yet. We should meet in Vegas in December.

SPEAKER_03 3:50:09

No, that and that's where Colin we met there too, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:50:13

Oh my god, yeah, dude. And uh I remember I brought I came up. Um we did dabs in your room.

SPEAKER_03 3:50:18

Yeah, we took a picture in front of the nice machine. Remember?

SPEAKER_06 3:50:22

Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_10 3:50:23

Did you guys send me that picture?

SPEAKER_06 3:50:25

We did, yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_10 3:50:26

Oh, that's so that's so funny. The minute he said that, I was like, why do I feel like I've seen that picture? I'm like, of course they'd send me that picture. What am I doing?

SPEAKER_03 3:50:36

We took that picture expressly to send it to you. That's what I mean. But I wasn't thinking about it. Let's take a selfie to send to Marcus. Bang. That's awesome, right?

SPEAKER_09 3:50:45

And there's stuff right behind you.

SPEAKER_03 3:50:48

To tell the audience the story, we took a picture in front of an ice machine, and it said ice machine on the thing. And I I I wrote in the nice, I wrote in the N. So I put the N so it looks like it says nice machine.

SPEAKER_10 3:51:02

Ice is nice. You know, I'm an ice fiend. I love the ice. I probably uh shared this picture on more than a number of occasions, but you know what? I don't care. I love it. This is me and Rob Clark.

SPEAKER_03 3:51:16

So, Marcus, why don't you come down to CanMed?

SPEAKER_02 3:51:19

Colin and I are gonna be down there.

SPEAKER_03 3:51:21

Where when's that?

SPEAKER_06 3:51:22

Yeah, so McKernan, we could probably get we should probably talk to I'll I'll send him a message. Uh it's uh June 15th.

SPEAKER_03 3:51:32

15th? Right.

SPEAKER_06 3:51:33

Through the 18th, yeah. Yeah, where is it? Lake Tahoe.

SPEAKER_03 3:51:37

Lake Tahoe.

SPEAKER_02 3:51:38

Oh, in California.

SPEAKER_06 3:51:40

Yeah, buddy. Okay, okay. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 3:51:46

Come on. Now Colin has met you, uh, Caleb has met you, and even though we've had this internet bromance for over 10 years, we've never met.

SPEAKER_10 3:51:58

We've never met it's gonna be so weird when we meet each other and just be like, oh, like like it's all you there's just always slight. I I don't know who it happened with in um Boston, but someone was like, Oh, it was Colin. It was Colin. Someone that was there was like, Holy, I didn't realize Colin was so tall. Like it freaked them out. I think it was Thomas from Grandmaster LEDs.

SPEAKER_11 3:52:22

Oh, no way.

SPEAKER_10 3:52:23

He was like, Yeah, because we see each other, but like, and sometimes it fits perfect, and sometimes it's like, whoa. I'll tell you, when I used to meet people before I showed my face and I was just writing uh like uh posts on overgrow.com. Um, people will be like, oh, that's weird. I just thought you'd be like like bigger. No one pictured me skinny. The bubble man made them think that I was like the bubble, like the Michelin man, yeah, or just like had more weight, you know, like wasn't like skinny the way I am, but was just like a maybe a little more uh chopped up.

SPEAKER_06 3:53:01

I was so I was much younger on the forum, so I'd meet up with people and they'd be like, Man, I just thought you'd be older or something.

SPEAKER_05 3:53:07

I'd be like, No, bro, like, but here's your clones. How tall are you, Colin? Six three, six four? I'm six two and a half. No, you're the same. I'm six two. So maybe I'm six three. I don't know. I think so. You're taller than me.

SPEAKER_06 3:53:23

Maybe I'm still growing.

SPEAKER_10 3:53:24

Yeah, like you're when I look at you, you're you're taller than me. Maybe I'm still growing. No, dude, they're 50-year-old people think they're a height and then they go get measured, and they're a totally different height than what they think.

SPEAKER_06 3:53:38

Well, I've heard that your feet as you get older, your feet get bigger, which was weird. My brother said that the other day.

SPEAKER_10 3:53:44

I was like, they just get all like huge. Well, I know our ears definitely never stop growing. I'm looking forward to some giant hundred-year-old ears one day. Listen, your acoustics will get better. Listen, yeah, just be able to be able to hear so well. Hey, I want to shout out uh the good folks at Grandmaster LED, bubble bags, the press club, and Puffco for being such good sponsors. Thank you, James, for linking up with Colin. Thank you, Colin, for going to link up with James, um, and grabbing the Puffco gear.

SPEAKER_06 3:54:14

I managed to uh shout out to James, actually. I I need to do that for him because he thank you, brother.

SPEAKER_10 3:54:21

Oh, yeah, you got the link, dude. That's great. Yeah, yeah, mine's never far. It is quite convenient to slap it into a bong. Um, I'm not really overly against like hitting through the puff go. Like, people, some guy was shitting, pissing on my corn flakes the other day. It was weird. He was in he was in Costa Rica, and I get this text, and he's like, Wow, it must be so difficult for you to like deal with breaking in all those cheap Chinese swag, like chemically silicone garbage. He's just like diarrhea Instagram post, and then I go and I look and I see he's from he's in Costa Rica, and I just wrote him back. I think it was Colin said, You got to tell that guy to go hit some waves. And I was like, Yeah, I was just like, you know, dude, like you're in Costa Rica in paradise. Like, don't worry about what I'm doing, man. Like, I'm good. You know, go hit some waves. I I wasn't trying to be like I gotcha, I wasn't trying to be a prick. I was legitimate, and you know what? He never really replied back to me, so I feel like I might have gotten through to him. So thank you for what was the guy's name? Um, let me let me go here through and see what his name was. I have a crazy history, so there's a small percentage of a possibility.

SPEAKER_06 3:55:30

Uh that I truly hope he went and found a way and caught one for us.

SPEAKER_10 3:55:35

I I do too, man. I I do 100%.

SPEAKER_06 3:55:37

Maybe he was like, you know what? He's right. No.

SPEAKER_10 3:55:41

Or just thought about it differently, you know. It's like uh is this him? No. I don't know, dude. I get too many um it he could be hundreds behind here. But maybe not. I just I I thought I remembered his picture. Oh wait, maybe that's him. Oh no, this was another one. This one was amazing. Should I should I read this one too? Because it was pretty funny. Yeah. Hey man, y'all ever do product review care packages? I'd love to check y'all's stuff out and show some love on the page. And locally, I got decent growing fan base and clientele. I get 100% raw, authentic reviews too. Love checking new brands out and old brands, new stuff. Big love for the culture. And I'm a heavyweight. So if it passes my test, people know it's talking business. If y'all are interested in talking some out, I'd love to hear back. Have a good one. Okay, so I wrote back, I'm very busy and I get 400 of these messages a day. I absolutely wrote them back. I said, Hey dude, thanks for the offer. Unfortunately, our best our best reviews are people who buy the product. It's biased when we send it for free. He replies, not really biased, it's just bias, y'all. Just a weak ass brand. Just say that, laughing emoji. Stuff looks mid as fuck, anyways. That's how he replied to me after I was like, and then I said, Oh, whoa, there we go. Now there goes the chameleon who claims positivity, but shows his true color. Thank you. I dodged a bullet there, didn't I? Dude, I could post, you know what? I should do a funniest Instagram private messages weekly event on Hash Church. I think we're gonna do it. Doesn't always have to be me. If you guys got good ones, we're happy to uh I'm not about making fun of people. I'm not trying to like talk people down, but I would like to hold them accountable for their absolute and total bullshit when they project it on me and try to sort of bring my frequency and vibration down. It's like, dude, what the fuck? I really wish I could find this uh uh surfer guy, dude, because his oh, here he is, Colin. Colin Dunn must get tired of breaking those devices in and breathing all those silicone lubricants and Chinese manufacturing chemicals, couldn't pay me to smoke even a toque out of one of those things, bro. And then he gives me like one of these and a wave emoji and a tropical uh coconut tree and a sun.

SPEAKER_06 3:58:10

Even while he's surfing on a board that's like so toxic. Of course, I go I love surfboards, but like it's the most toxic thing we could ever.

SPEAKER_10 3:58:18

I go, I doubt anyone would offer to pay you to smoke out of one. And then I said, Hey, aren't you in paradise? Why are you so salty sending shade? Go enjoy your life, homie. And then I added Collins, go hit some waves, and then I mean it didn't reply to me. His name is Colin. Right? No, it's Colin Dunn, and he is the white octave. If anyone wants to go say the hi to the white octave, don't be mean, you're representing me or hash church. You know, be kind. Uh, if you want to go say hi to the other guy who wrote the uh the the review guy, I currently have him blocked, but he's John the Alien 865. So you can go say hi to John the Alien. He's the one that said, uh, here's my favorite part. Hey man, if y'all ever do product review care packages, I'd love to check y'all's stuff out and show some love, bias. You see how he's opened it up with if you send me something, I'm gonna show you some love. That was the bias output in the first sentence. You don't you didn't hear that, Dr. Mark?

SPEAKER_03 3:59:27

You didn't think he has an overinflated opinion of his own opinion.

SPEAKER_10 3:59:33

Yes, exactly. So that's why I was like, that'll be biased. I'd rather, honestly, my you want to know what my favorite reviews are? Bad ones. Because they teach me the most and I can change things the fastest. So if someone bought, like for instance, someone bought a gram and it was short. Like we were like, fuck, we audited the lab. We audited the guy that was doing the the things. Well, first of all, we gave like three grams to the guy that uh got the short gram. Another thing was, oh, what else happened? There was another thing that, oh, a company sold my regular bubble. It's just, you know, it's 50 to 60 percent, but it's not melty bubble. They, their marketing guy took a copy and paste of a full melt paragraph and put it in with the ad at the store. So when someone came in to buy it, it said it was full melt. They had a whole Reddit post. I went in there, I found out exactly what happened. We audited it, we found out where it was, we fixed it. The guy apologized, he learned a lesson, the guy that hired him learned a lesson, I learned a lesson, and we gave a bunch of free hash to the guy that helped discover uh, you know, this vector of error. That's what we need. We're gonna make mistakes. And the best uh reviews for me are the people that tell me the truth. If you are my, you know, a supporter or you've been watching the show for a while and you get something that's not good. Now listen, I'm not gonna say I don't want you to post it publicly, but you are always welcome to hit me up privately first. If you feel it's important and it should be posted publicly, then post it publicly. The only thing I ask is that we play it out publicly right to the end and we continue showing what happened so we don't just give people uh the illusion that maybe we're a shitty company and we're not trying to take care of our uh customers. But yeah, we make mistakes, uh, we're pretty human. Uh so let us know if we've ever made those mistakes with you, and we will definitely fix it on the uh on the quick and uply. So once again, I want to thank everyone for coming out today and hanging out on Hash Church. Appreciate you, Caleb and Colin and Dr. Mark. Appreciated uh Edgar coming in. You probably had to go do family stuff, Masonic Seeds, Stuart. Uh, congratulations on your second place at Masters of Rosins. Congratulations to Lulu Meltz uh on your first place uh win at Masters of Rosin. And uh yeah, we will see you next week. I'm hoping on doing another cryo episode with TJ from the original resonator. I'm going to bring back a bunch of his team. We're going to go deeper into sublimation, uh deeper into cryo extraction, uh, bound and uh unbound water. Uh should be a good one. Uh, I will try to get that uh thumbnail up here in the next little bit. But in the meantime, I would just say uh enjoy the rest of your day, spend it with loved ones, take some nice dabs. I have been away from my family for five days, so I'm super stoked to go hang out with them. But uh thanks everyone for watching. I really appreciate you, bingo Lombardi, for holding it down. Uh, and all the people that come every week. Uh, I really do fucking appreciate you. So let's keep it up. Hash church for life. Uh, I laughed in Massachusetts. I was telling everyone that hash church is in the top 100 best hash or sorry church podcasts in Canada. We're number three. You can search that on Google. Uh, that is funny as fuck. Peace out, everyone. Made the full melt, bless your bull sooner than later. And yes, Dr. Mark, you did do that.

SPEAKER_03 4:03:03

Pour it out, PuffCo.

SPEAKER_10 4:03:05

Peace out.

SPEAKER_03 4:03:06

Schedule three, baby. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_05 4:03:10

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 4:03:11

Peace, y'all. Thanks. See you guys. Yeah, peace out, everybody. Much love. Love you.

SPEAKER_05 4:03:19

Peace.