Hash Church Season 12 Episode 22

HASH CHURCH Season 12 Episode 22 — THE CRYO EPISODE Part II ❄️🔥

This week on Hash Church we welcome back TJ from [The Original Resinator]theoriginalresinator.com  for Part II of our deep dive into CRYO technology, cold-chain processing, live material preservation, dry sift innovation, bubble hash workflows, and the future of solventless cannabis extraction.

We’ll be talking about everything from Cryo-Trim® and Cryo-Sieve® technology to liquid CO₂ processing, fresh frozen workflows, freeze drying, terpene preservation, trichome collection, biomass reduction, and how cryogenic processing is changing the game for modern hash makers and extract artists.

TJ and Bubbleman go deep into:
• Maintaining the cold chain from harvest to final product
• Live dry sift and fresh frozen processing
• Bubble hash washing techniques
• Cryogenic trimming and separation technology
• Freeze drying and terpene retention
• Solventless innovation at scale
• Hash quality, efficiency, and preserving gland integrity
• The future of post-harvest cannabis processing

If you’re into full melt, dry sift, bubble hash, live rosin, solventless extraction, or cutting-edge cannabis tech — this is an episode you do NOT want to miss.

Sponsored by Puffco, The Press Club and Bubblebags

#HashChurch #Bubbleman #OriginalResinator #Cryo #Solventless #BubbleHash #DrySift #LiveRosin #FullMelt #CannabisExtraction #Hashish #Puffco #ThePressClub #FreshFrozen #FreezeDry #CryoTrim #CryoSieve

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Puffco continues to set the standard for modern consumption with tools built for people who truly care about flavor, temperature, and intentional use.
From the Puffco Peak Pro with the 3D XL Bowl — delivering consistent heat, bigger hits, and unmatched terp expression —to the Proxy, redefining modular, ritual-based consumption,and the Pivot, bringing true Puffco performance into a compact, everyday format…
These aren’t gadgets.They’re purpose-built tools for hash and solventless.
We’re genuinely grateful for Puffco’s continued support of Hash Church, our guests, and our community. Their belief in education, culture, and quality helps us keep these conversations alive.
👉 Support the brands that support the culture.Visit puffco.com, explore their lineup, and experience what intentional design really feels like.
Puffco — Elevate the Ritual.


We believe that how you make hash matters just as much as what you make. Craft, consistency, and respect for the process are everything — and that’s why we’re proud to be supported by Press Club.
Press Club has become a trusted name in solventless production, creating well-engineered rosin presses, accessories, and tools designed for people who take this work seriously — whether you’re pressing at home or dialing in a professional workflow.
From their precision-built pressesto their thoughtful accessories and hardwarePress Club helps makers focus on what matters most: quality in, quality out.
We’re genuinely grateful for Press Club’s support of Hash Church, our guests, and the wider solventless community. Their commitment to education, craftsmanship, and accessibility helps push the culture forward.
👉 Support the companies that support the craft.Visit pressclub.co, check out their presses and tools, and take your solventless game to the next level. Use code : hashchurch10 for a discount
Press Club — Built for the Press.

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These aren’t just lights — they’re precision tools designed for those who care about terpene expression, resin production, structure, yield, and consistency. Every fixture is built with focus, purpose, and a relentless dedication to helping growers unlock the full potential of their genetics.
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Join this channel to get access to perks:
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Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:00

Out, let's record to the cloud.

SPEAKER_07 0:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 0:04

I think we're good here, people. Let me make sure I'm live, everyone. Everyone. I think I'm live. Oh yeah. So let me just hash that out. Okay, well, welcome everybody. As you can see, I look ridiculous as I am in the lab. And there are rules to follow in the lab. Kind of kind of breaching them with this over my upper above my ears. But welcome to Hash Church episode uh well, it's first season 12, episode 22. I've been looking forward to this. This is part two of the cryo episode with TJ uh and the original resonator team. Of course, I'm going to go about my day here. Yes, yes, yes, I am live. Thank you, Booth966. You are a helpful friend. Uh so as always, we are gonna shout out our sponsors. So let me just slowly organize that. Let me organize.

SPEAKER_08 0:57

Oh, that's not what I'm looking for. That is what I'm looking for right there. Sorry, I've got my smaller computer today and shit is stash.

SPEAKER_06 1:07

Okay. Man, I'm excited. I've got a big day today. I'm in the lab all day for 10 hours. So I'm basically processing hash. So I'm gonna be doing that and doing this simultaneously. So let's just see first and foremost. Uh oh yeah, that is right. I did hit the right button. So we're gonna start with our good friends at the press club because they are awesome supporters of Hash Church. Okay, so today's episode of Hash Church is proudly supported by the press club. The California brothers obsessed with Hash and everything's solventless. Just like us. Hello? Their journey didn't start as a business, it started as a family. Back in 2014, when a loved one wasn't finding relief through conventional medicine, they turned back to the plant they'd respected their whole lives. You we gotta get the press club on here to tell to go deeper into that story for us one of these days. I'd love to have them come on and share that story. You know, they knew cannabis had medicinal power, but they needed something cleaner, and that search led them to solventless. I feel like I was a part of that search. Using nothing but water, heat, and pressure to let the plant express itself honestly. That light bulb moment turned into washing, pressing, experimenting, and eventually realizing how hard it was to find truly high-quality rosin bags and solventless tools that were made in America and still affordable. Not a lie. So they did what Real Hash had to do. They built the solution themselves. The Press Club stands for clean, processed, conscious intention, and tools made by people who actually live the culture, not corporations chasing trends. We are extremely grateful to have the press club supporting Hash Church and the wider solventless community, family-run, purpose-driven, and rooted in why Hash matters in the first place. Much love to you guys, Jeffrey and the Press Club, and thank you for supporting HashCurch. Uh, it makes a difference to us. It really does. You know, at Hash Church, we talk a lot about the ritual and respect for the plant and elevating the experience. And that's exactly why we're proud to be supported by Puffco, because they literally do all three of those things. They set the standard for modern consumption with tools built for people who can truly care about flavor, temperature, and intentional use. You've got the Puffco Peak Pro with the 3D XL bowl delivering consistent heat into bigger hits and unmatched terp expression, right down to the proxy-core, redefining modular ritual-based consumption. The pivot, bringing true Puffco performance into a compact, everyday, on-the-go format. These aren't gadgets. They're purpose-built tools for hash and solventless, and we're generally grateful for Puffco's continued support of Hash Church, our guests, and our community. Their belief in education, culture, and quality helps us keep these conversations alive. And you can support the brands that support the culture by visiting www.puffco.com. Explore the lineup, experience what intentional design really feels like. On Instagram. I won't say much about bubble bags, but we've been doing this since 1999. We're some of the OGs. We helped pioneer the process. We created the numbers, the bags, the colors, uh, and we really popularized this process. And uh, we're happy to be a rung in the ladder of all the incredible people that have come before and since. I want to shout out N Rosenthal, the unknown American, who told Skunkman Sam, and Rob Clark that resin sinks, or sorry, told Neville, the breeder that resin sinks. Neville would eventually tell Skunk uh Skunkman Sam and Rob. Uh, Reinhart would find the information from there. He would go to Mila and Eldon and Mark, and Mila would create the isolator bags, and I would come up about three months later with the bubble bags. Mark Rose and I would partner up and we would smash out the world with bubble bags. So thank you for all your support, everyone, over the years. Uh, it means a lot to us. Alrighty then, let's get some folks into the room here. Let's get some folks into the room. In the meantime, oh, he's texting me. He's like, hey man, we're trying to get in. Trying to get in. It's like, yeah, I don't let anyone in before I'm done with the sponsorships. That's why you were trying to get in. You came early. And uh, what's up, Rustin Porter? What's up, my dude? Well, you know, I'm dressed like an absolute asshole here in the lab. Uh, you know, my mom said, What did mama say? Mama said, laugh is like a box of chocolates. Some people have small boxes, and some people have big boxes.

SPEAKER_05 5:45

Nice, dude. Sweet.

SPEAKER_06 5:50

Yeah, that was yesterday. That was a great one. We'll see what today brings. Well, actually, I did I did this yesterday too.

SPEAKER_08 6:01

This one's a bit smaller. But uh check out the ASMR on this.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

It's got a sheen to it.

SPEAKER_06 6:13

Oh, it's got a beautiful sheen. I don't even know what that weighs, but it's gotta be two or three hundred grams.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Beautiful balls.

SPEAKER_06 6:22

So those are awesome. I'm gonna be processing hash today uh while we're talking and having a wonderful conversation about cold supply chain and processing hash. I'm gonna be in the lab here turning this into that. So yeah, pretty excited. Stoked to have you guys on, stoked to get another uh stoked to get another episode of the cryo, you know, like this is uh this is a huge aspect of our business because it's kind of a two-part. On one side, we're like, grow better weed, grow better weed that expresses itself more, that creates more volatile organic compounds, grow better weed. On the flip side, you know, you have people that are like, oh, let's like preserve what we've grown so it doesn't seem shittier than what we did. And you know, like whether you have the top quality, most high level expression of volatile organic compounds or a very low one, in my opinion, you want to preserve as much of that as possible, regardless. And unfortunately, the majority of people grow mids in the industry. So you guys are obviously helping people, you know, A, preserve, you know, you you could have a mid, like a little higher up mid, but you don't preserve it properly. And now it's like, you know, like almost garbage kind of thing. So I'm super excited to have you guys in here. There's not a ton of people focused on the cold supply chain of cannabis, um, which is kind of wild to me in in that sense. Now, you know, I even want to get into another part of this conversation, which will be for later. I'll plant the seed now. Um, of course, I've been enjoying uh Dougie's absolute trolling of the Rosin boys and the DHO boys. It's just back and forth. And it's funny to me to see. I'm like, did I used to take that shit seriously? Did I actually used to get mad at this? Because Doug's just trolling. He knows he's trolling, but at the same time, he's bringing up really good conversations. One of the conversations he brought up, of course, is that Rosin is like, come on, you guys are heating it up to like 160 degrees Fahrenheit. We're doing like minus 60 degrees Celsius. There's just no competition, there's no uh uh comparison. And I was like, Yeah, but how hot is it when you dab it?

SPEAKER_08 8:45

Yep, the decarbonate.

SPEAKER_06 8:47

Oh, how hot is it when you dab it? Because one of the points that one guy made was like, you guys are exposing it to 160 degrees Fahrenheit, and so many things are changing. You're not even getting what is there, and I'm like, right, and when you dab your BHO, you're hitting it at like 420 or more degrees Fahrenheit. So what's happening with that? And so we can have that conversation at the end of the day. I want to welcome you both for popping in today, and uh yeah, I'm stoked to uh to have a little hash church here. Oh shit, I guess Colin didn't get the hash church invite. I swore he was on that email. I swear some of you guys don't check your emails. It's because we get a thousand emails. Look at you, TJ. I get a thousand emails a day. Man, five minutes before hash church, he's like, Where's the link? I'm like, oh my god, did I not send up that email?

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Holy shit, no one's gonna show up. I'm by myself in the lab. What's happening? I texted you, good morning, and you said, Oh shit, hash church is today. That was a joke. That was a joke.

SPEAKER_08 9:54

I felt like, oh, he gave me a little heart attack. I might as well give him a little heart attack. That's awesome. We're gonna collins joining us. That's great.

SPEAKER_06 10:03

Yeah, Colin's gonna come in, a chan's gonna come in, and Dr. Mark is gonna come in. I figured it's always good to have a PhD chemist in the house when we're talking about volatility compounds and whole supply chains and all of those certain things. Uh, Mark is definitely our resident genius chemist, and uh yeah, we got love for him, so why why not have him in? As long as we don't uh bring up politics, we should be fine.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

I'm surprised we actually don't have a stuffy stuffy for Rustin, man. He was gonna pull the Skunk Man, bro, and said we got a full appearance.

SPEAKER_06 10:36

So hey, dude, were you were you thinking about it like just because you're like, I don't know if I want to go on hash church with my face.

SPEAKER_05 10:43

Um no, I think it's just me with cameras, man. But um, this actually, even waking up this morning, it was um like uh anytime I'm in front of cameras, specifically like if I'm doing a recording. Um uh yeah, dude, I kind of freeze up, but uh I was more excited than frozen today. So that was kind of nice to be like, you know what? I'm just excited to talk about hash, you know?

SPEAKER_06 11:04

Yeah, this is mellow, dude, and this is shit you know, and there's no four hours, it's super long, right? We could do three, you know, we'll see how long the conversation goes. I do have a very busy day today. I got people coming into the lab around 12:30 or so, but uh yeah, it's super mellow, super relaxed. We'll have a great fucking conversation. TJ wanted to keep it a little tighter this time, didn't quite invite as many people, so you guys could go a little deeper, you know, on these processes.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Plus, you were traveling international borders over the last meeting coming into the States, baby.

SPEAKER_06 11:38

Dude, I've been loving coming to the States. I can't even say it's so crazy that like it's at least in my country, at least on the in the province that I'm in, because you have like we're just very particular in the province that I live in regards to our politics. And that politics is like people are like, you can't go down there. And I'm like, what are you talking about, dude? They're finally letting me down there. I am absolutely going down there. You know, I've got great people that I've been kept from for 30 years. I try to wrap this around people's heads. It's like, you don't understand, I haven't gone for 30 years, as in three decades, as in longer than you've been alive for a lot of the people that I'm having this conversation with. Yeah, and so um, they can't really understand, you know, they get caught up in their own sort of stuff. And I'm like, no, no, no. I need to be able to go to the US. I want to go and visit all my friends. There's absolutely spectacular, amazing people down there. And um, I need to, I need, I need to be there, man.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Do you find, and you know, especially being up there, I'm curious, is there is it harder for people to get over to your side of the border than it is for Canadians to come down to the States?

SPEAKER_06 12:43

No, it's pretty equal. They're very, you know, there's it's a strong, first of all, it's a it's one of the largest unprotected borders in the world. So obviously, from that perspective, they're gonna want to have a big flex on both sides of those borders. Because when you go to the border guard, it's probably like, I don't even know how many miles to the next one. You know, there might be like 800, 500 mile breaks in where there's an actual border crossing. So it's a massively unprotected border. So it makes sense that they would flex it and be like, we got cameras, we got drones, we got satellites, we got, you know, we got everything. And so it it, in my opinion, at the Canadian border and the US border, both Canadian and Americans sort of feel equally like, holy shit, this is like a pretty serious place to be. Like, this isn't the place to be making jokes. This isn't the place to be, you know, you just like you just want to get through uh the border. So I feel like the Canadians are both as nice and as mean as the Americans can be. It's their job, right? Like if they have suspicion and they think someone's doing something sketchy, you know. And I would suspect having someone come over the border and you be the border guard that let them in and then have them cause problems in your country is probably not an ideal situation. But in that sense, both Canadians are the Canadians are equally as nasty sometimes uh as the Americans at the border. I'm lucky, I have a waiver, so I've generally I've I've never experienced border guards being as nice as they have been to me since I've started coming over. I just crossed in Detroit uh not too long ago, and I took the bus, which is like the cheapest way to go across the border, and everyone on that bus was sketchball supreme. And so when we got there, I was like, oh my god, this is gonna be bad. And I get up to the border and he's like, Oh, what's going on there? You got a waiver, you know. He's this I was talking to me. He's like, Oh, you got a waiver. Let me, oh geez, oh, you got in some trouble with some marijuana, eh? He's like, Would you get caught with a couple of joints? I'm like, he's like, oh, a couple of ounces? I'm like, he's like, couple of pounds? I'm like, we're getting closer. He's like, how much did you get with? I didn't want to lie, so I just said some kilos. He's like, and then he was like, oh, well, okay, well, you know, it's it looks like you're doing better now. You got permission from the boys upstairs, so you know, have a here's your waiver, here's your passport, have a good trip. And I'm just like, it's the craziest thing to like exist in a position where you're hated for so many years by this group of people, and then suddenly just be like invisible to them.

SPEAKER_09 15:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:30

I'm like, I'm not I'm not taking it for granted. Like that my ability to go drive over the border and visit Dr. Mark or go see you down in Cali, TJ, or go and you know, visit Dragonfly Earth Medicine in Oregon, or you know, the continued trips that I'm going to Denver, I've got a super, super soft spot in my heart for Denver. I've absolutely loved it, super fun. Lots of super alternative, wild people growing mushrooms and weed and loving the mountains and fucking loving concerts. You know, I think Red Rocks is a huge effect on the consciousness of the people that live around there. They just have epic fucking concerts. I think I think Michael Franti is doing yoga at uh at uh the Red Rocks today, and tomorrow I think he has his concert. So just these incredible like slew of conscious musicians flowing through. You know, maybe cities that don't have that level of consciousness need an epic venue. They need to build some like epic venue where it's just like, look, we're not gonna get into arguments about this and that. We're just gonna eat acid and go to a concert, and we're all gonna have fun, and that's gonna affect uh how we all treat each other. And uh that's worked for me. How about you, Doc? How about you, Dr. Mark? Has that worked for you?

SPEAKER_03 16:44

Hey Marcus, what's up? Can you guys hear me? I'm in the lab, buddy. What do you think? I got my lab photo. I see that. Wow. So where are you exactly?

SPEAKER_06 16:57

I am in Kelowna, BC, an absolutely beautiful, beautiful place. Look up.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

So you're not just up the road here in Quebec, right?

SPEAKER_06 17:07

No, no, you know I would hit you up on my way down there. We're the next time I come to Quebec, I don't even care. I'm coming to see you.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

I'll just it's been three times, dude. I mean, like if you were in Quebec right now, I think by the time we end this episode, I could be up there pulling Puff Cos with you, right? Easily, dude. Easily how far or how close it is. So yeah, yeah, yeah. You're talking about the border, you know, it's really super interesting because again, like you know, we have a border. Well, we're a border state, right? Vermont and New York, and there's so much commerce that you know the states rely on Canadians, and Canadians just I don't think they give a shit about politics anymore. They're coming down to Vermont and spending their Canadian dollars here, and it's great because I think the border states really thrive on a on the thing going back and forth. I think it's beneficial for the Canadian side too. Because I know a lot of Americans who go up to Montreal to kick it up because that's like you know, Montreal is just such a great city, it's it's it's an international you know city. It's not just you know, it's not just a Canadian city, right? It belongs to the world, it's one of those cities like Paris, New York, Montreal, yeah, right. I mean, just the culture up there is just amazing, just right, compared to kind of like the surrounding area, which is still maybe somewhat, let's just call it colonial.

SPEAKER_06 18:41

Yeah, yeah. No, Montreal is different, it's super unique, it's super awesome. I swear it has something to do with the edge, you know. French Quebec people have a real edge to them. But it's a it's a beautiful edge, and the closer you get, the more you realize it's not a sharp edge at all. It's actually quite blunt. It won't cut you, but it'll definitely affect you. And you know, they've got a little thing about their language. So si vous parlez français, c'est pas un problème, si tu parles par français, c'est un peu de problème. So they like people who speak French. They definitely like that. But like you said, over the years, it's been uh oui, Le Quebekois. Um, it's a fucking awesome uh place. The townships, you just don't know until you're driving through Quebec to these little townships and the old little churches, and it's just a quieter, more mellow time uh in life that you're reminded of when you are when you're in the city.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

It's so weird right now that you've been on both sides, right? You know that you're in the US or in Canada, right? There's no there's no mistaking one for the other.

SPEAKER_06 19:51

Well, the one thing I noticed about the US that sort of tripped me out is that everyone has guns. And I was kind of like, ah, not everyone has guns. And then my buddies were like pulling out guns, and just like I was like, Oh shit, I I've barely ever seen a gun. I've never held an AR-15 in my life until last time I was in Denver. I was holding one. I was like, holy shit, this is crazy, dude. And then I'm driving with my buddy and I'm like, Oh, I was holding a gun the other day. Like, how crazy is that? He's like, Well, everyone's got guns, dude. I'm like, I know, but like, I'm like, dude, he had it in his car, like a handgun. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I got one too. And then he like lifts under his seat and shows, I'm like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 20:26

You could just and there's like you know, guns in the back rack of the window because all the hunters hunting family, so yeah, it's different culture, man.

SPEAKER_06 20:34

Well, I'll tell you something. I know we have guns in Canada, but they're not, we are not exposed to them, and you don't really see them, and there's not a lot of gun crimes. So I don't have the feeling. I will say, after all my friends showed me their guns this last trip, I was kind of like, oh, I get it now. Even if you're not into guns, if you live in a country where everyone has a gun, it's probably a good idea to have a gun.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Unless you grow cannabis, because that's been one of the culprits. Like there's a two-year enhancement for having you know, if only possession of a firearm for cultivating. And so that's been um, you know, something that for me is, you know, as you kind of were talking about earlier, it's like coming out of the cannabis closet, you know, even like post-9-11, you know, Canada got real. I mean, it used to be, you know, a couple of us, you know, I mean, I got a lot of gray hair hair over here. So, you know, I remember some trips up to the down to Kootenies, you know, before uh 9-11, you know, and it's a different world post um for sure. Tried to go up there, and that's that's a horror story I could tell you that would take up an hour of this podcast, but um, you know, it's um I haven't been back since my last attempt.

SPEAKER_06 21:45

Thank you, Pooja. Sorry, Pooja the QA, was bringing me some parchment, and she's such a wonderful, lovely person. I I didn't realize I wasn't on on mute there, but uh please continue.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Ooh, what brand of parchment we need to know.

SPEAKER_06 21:59

Well, this. Won't be the parchment that I want necessarily, but it's like an unbleached parchment. It's not like U-line, it's not like it's like uh what the fuck is the name on this bad boy? This one is she brought a Reynolds and she brought a chef, a master chef. For me today, I'm not pressing rosin. What I'm doing is I'm using it to roll my hash on. So I don't know if I showed you Dr. Mark, but I made a bunch of hash yesterday.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Yeah, I saw it just before I got on. The hash, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:36

You showed yeah, the balls here.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_06 22:39

Yeah, so I'm doing a bit of a bunch of butchy balls. That doesn't really involve like you know, heat or pressing or any kind of like worrisome uh like rosin. I'm a little bit more particular.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

But uh you know, depending on how tacky they are. I wonder if you could actually play butchy ball with balls of ash.

SPEAKER_06 23:01

Well, these ones are pretty tacky. I think they'd be like a snowball, and if you rolled them, I think they would have like a bunch of shit on them, like by the time it got to the little ball.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

That makes an interesting match.

SPEAKER_06 23:13

Maybe, maybe we do that one day.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Maybe again, we're talking on the cryo episode, right? If things were cold enough, right? If things were cold, think about inside a walk-in freezer, right? You could play butchy ball with hash. Yep. That might be a thing someday.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Oh, we all get our barkas on.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

When life gives you balls, play play butchy. I'm saying, brother. So, Marcus, so so what was the origin of that hash that you just showed us? Like, where did it start its life?

SPEAKER_06 23:58

That hash started its life locally here in British Columbia as flour, and it ended up getting um. I believe, if I'm correct, my buddy bought like I want to say 12,000 pounds or 10,000 pounds, and then he had it like it needed to be cleaned up a little bit. It was for export, and so he had it trimmed over trim bins and made like single. Um, I believe it was multiple, but I'd have to, I don't know if he mixed the sift because I wasn't I wanted to go when they were had all the semis and they were setting up all of this trim binning and because they trimmed like 10,000 pounds or something uh rubiculous of dry materials.

SPEAKER_08 24:46

So they ended up with hundreds of kilos of uh of this sift.

SPEAKER_06 24:54

And now I got it. Now it's in my hands. So look out because I'm gonna turn this into something wonderful for everyone to enjoy. I love making hash, and I get we geek out on this all the time, and we're gonna get deep into it today, but I just love I really think when I'm making hash about the people who are smoking it. You know, like I I like to think about the people enjoying it in different situations. Maybe you're having a bad day, and you know, like the other day my cat fell out of a tree. It was a 50-foot tree on a 50-foot cliff, so it fell a hundred feet down to rocks, uh, which was crazy. Cost me five G's to put this thing in the hospital for one night in the incubation tank because it had like uh contusions inside of its lungs, so it couldn't breathe properly, but no broken bones, no ligament damage, no muscle damage, no like not even a drop of blood came out of this cat. It fell 100 feet. That's a 10-story apartment building for those of you that don't know math. That is absolutely there is a reason why we say cats have nine lives. Anyway, at the end of that day, after my daughter was crying, and my son and everyone's upset, and my wife, and it was very emotional. Smoking hash at the end of that day was just the most amazing thing. And it's those days that I often think about when I'm making hash. How many thousands of people are you just making their day a little bit better, you know, with a little bit of hash? A nice little warm hug, as I like to call it.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

In our culture, yeah, man, you only it's only gonna cost you 45 grand for those other eight lives, bro. Um, yeah, exactly. Cool seeing our culture, like you know, in all the labs that we visit, you know, we run into different folks all the time. And something is so unique about this industry in cannabis, is just how people kind of what you just expressed. It's not only the love of like is smoking the hash and engaging with the plant and your community, but like actually doing the work, it surprises me how many people love to just grind it up in the lab. Like it's a different kind of mindset, you know, when you're making hash, like even when you're sweating, you know, in a freezer with a headlamp on your head and a parka coat, digging through crates, or you're in a you know, stirring a paddle in a cold room, you know, you know, because cold is there's nothing to be trifled with. And when you can see your breath while you're working, you know, people don't often consider how you need to go out and you know, and actually like I go in a freezer for an hour and a half with a headlamp and come out and often hear like, wow, people usually only take it for 15 minutes in there. And and it's not just you know, my personal love for hack, it's seeing so many others, like even trimmers. Man, the one of the most mundane, you know, jobs to sit and you know, people that are doing hand trimming and claiming trip trim, they they just enjoy the work, you know. I mean, there's so many other things you can do. You know, we joked about how recently, you know, these fast food joints that are hiring folks at 20 plus bucks an hour. Um, it's you know becoming harder for you know cannabis folks to find people, even just people who were willing to work for lower wages because there's so many other ways to make money, but even those who are choosing to work in this space just seem to love it. And I I hope that's something that you know we continue to see over the course of the next five, 10 years because that's kind of what's happening right now. This industry is it's changing. You know, you talked about the last 30 years, you know, that you've been crossing borders, right? And I mean, some of us, you know, like I just turned 50 years old this year, right? So I've been smoking cannabis since I was 16, and I did not think we'd be at this place in the cannabis industry, you know, virtually out of the cannabis closet, talking about cannabis openly on podcast. You know, for many, many years, you know, we're going to your local smoke shop has a book about how to grow tomatoes. You know, there's no maybe a forum like for Future 4200 when it first started actually talking about cannabis. Like we just didn't have anything. Look where it is now. You know, you AI something and it'll tell you everything you want to know, let alone Google. So it's just fascinating to see how our culture is, you know, it's it's consolidating, but those who are still here are here because we love it. And I think that's really unique. It's something I'm enjoying. You have to because it's not getting any easier. Ain't that the truth, brother?

SPEAKER_08 29:23

I'm uh just filling out paperwork.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Isn't that funny, man? Did you ever imagine the day that you'd be measuring grams?

SPEAKER_06 29:33

I've been doing it for so long at this point in time that I I can't even remember not doing it, dude.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

I remember when it switched over from pounds, because like that's what we all did, right? We did pounds, you put them in big packs. And um, when it started, I started seeing it happen, and it was you know really the beginning of metric when people started actually measuring it in grams, and it took me a minute to wrap my brain around because I always was saying, I was like, man, when can we figure out how to take this pound, this this weed that's so valuable, you know, $1,000 for a pound, and and it becomes as valuable as when you're making hash, the game's gonna flip on its head. I mean, we all literally watched that happen over the course of the last you know, 15 years. You know, it's been crazy. It's just flipped on its head, and now it's it's almost unrecognizable. If you were to have just went to, you know, went to jail or something or you know, some island and then came back and just saw the state of the cannabis injury from where it was, you it's hard to imagine it's the same lifetime. You know, I didn't I thought I'd be an old man in a rocking chair before we'd be here, you know.

SPEAKER_06 30:40

Well, it happened quick up here because we did the whole federal legalization, and so that was a real shock to Canadians, you know. And I I'll never forget it because it was in '94 when we applied for a hemp license. And my partner Martin, you know, we used to trip hard together. We take like five grams of dried mushrooms, mushrooms that I bought from Terrence McKenna's wife, this for that him and his brother collected in the Amazon, like the fucking syzygy, right? Like the penis and the parents stock. So I ordered this spore in the late 80s, early 90s. We grew these mushrooms in my closet. We would take these mushrooms, you know, five dried grams type of thing. And uh yeah, it was uh my my partner Martin looked at me one day and he said, When we got our license to grow hemp and we planted just a five-acre field and it was kind of visible from the highway, he said, This is gonna change the way people think about weed, dude. And I was like, What do you mean? He's like, Well, it's there's fields of weed growing all over Manitoba. You don't think that's gonna change the way people think? And I'm like, Well, it's not weed, it's hemp. He's like, Yeah, but look at the field, dude. What does it look like? I'm like, well, it looks like weed. He's like, Yeah. And so this was like, we were still telling the fib that hemp was a distant cousin of marijuana. Because that's how we got the fucking plants grown in the field in the first place. We just convinced our minister of agriculture that it was uh, oh no, no, no, it's not marijuana, don't worry about that. Well, absolutely it was 100%. And uh it did change the way people think.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

It really did. Here we are, man. I mean, you know, honestly, you know, cats like, I mean, look, we're all pioneers, you know, and you know what they say about pioneers, right?

SPEAKER_08 32:20

Uh what do they say about pioneers?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Arrows in their backs.

SPEAKER_08 32:24

Oh, the arrows in their backs, yes, of course. Lots of arrows in the back.

SPEAKER_06 32:30

That's not all they say. You know what, TJ? I I don't accept that. That is racist, and I want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_08 32:38

I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Well, Mormons.

SPEAKER_06 32:42

Hey, be careful. It's crazy. It's crazy how easy it is to get canceled in this in this industry. There was a situation here in Canada where a gentleman uh by the name of Dylan owns a company called Pistols in Paris. And they and they have 60 or 70 people who work for them. And they I don't know the full story, but I what the story that I heard is that there was a guy who was working there and he was an alternative guy, and he was rolling joints or hash holes or something. And I don't know if he was planning on leaving or if he had beef with someone that worked at the place, but someone that worked at the place cut out like a fucking cardboard swastika, wrote some stupid shit on it, and like put it on the wall in the private room where this guy rolls his joints. And you would not believe how many people in the industry are canceling the owner of the company who had absolutely nothing to do with it, who had like stores are like refusing to carry his products. They're like, it's this crazy like, holy shit, like, look into the story. It was his employee who did it, the guy got fired. This guy doesn't support this in any way. Today, it is very easy to be canceled. So be careful what you do and what you say. And apparently, be careful what anyone around you does or says as well, because uh that that could also cause you problems. So it's kind of a big thing. You go on Reddit right now and you punch in pistols in Paris, and maybe Nazi or swastika, and you'll come up with the whole story. And there are there are people on both sides kind of giving their per their breakdown on it. It's uh it's unfortunate that people have hate in their heart. I don't know how you can have hate in your heart when you're smoking good hash. Maybe it's just me. Maybe people don't have good hash. Maybe we're not working hard enough, boys.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Well, look, man, when I say arrows in the back, like some of them pioneers deserved it, bro. Just, you know, I mean, it's not all cut and cross you know, of course. That's the same goes for it's like being, you know, we we it is it is a weird cancel that we live in. And I think that's you know, one of the things being conscious about the state of the affairs around us, because I mean I deal with that all the time. Like I always try to kind of they use the I'm Switzerland mindset, you know, because I I don't think in business, I don't I try to leave politics and religion like out of business for obvious reasons because it's really easy to get caught, you know, in a trap of, you know, what is you know, which side are you on? And you know, for me, you know, I'm I'm just on the side of you know my my family, right? And and love. And I think you know, cannabis is a huge part of my life, and it's centered, it's been around my life the whole time, my whole life. Like my kids grew up with it, you know, my wife, you know, has supported me through it, and you know, she's been a big, you know, cannabis advocate. And you know, there's medical reasons for us to have really pursued it, but it's been two sides of a coin, you know, and as we all talk about our hit our our checkered past, our colored past, you know, of what we've all been through, you know, virtual, you know, you know, you know, soldiers, you know, on the front line of, you know, the cannabis, the fight for cannabis, there's this, there's this mindset around like, I always say, you know, burn your ships, just don't kill the natives. Because, you know, that's when you talk about analogies and how you can be misinterpreted, you know, it's like, what does all that mean? And you know, burning the ships for me was the analogy of of not leaving a pathway back when it came to from getting away from you know a black market, you know, traditional mindset and crossing over into you know where I am now, able to be public, you know, own a gun, you know, in my home because I don't have illegal cannabis plants growing, you know, inside of my garage or wherever. You know, it's like to be able to be in this mindset and share a lifetime of experience and hard knocks and things that you know I've been through and you know, experiences that my friends have have have had, you know, and being an equipment manufacturer puts me in a pretty unique position, you know, to I always say it's like what a privilege it is, you know. Obviously, you know, starting, you know, like founding the resonator was was came out of hash, and it was such a a unique experience um as an OEM to because I already had, you know, I'm already making hash. Cannabis is a daily part of my life. I didn't come from some other industry. And then to say, all right, now like now I get to go into farms and facilities all over the country, you know, me and my partner, and you know, we get to you know get exposure to things and systems and different methodologies and workflows and stuff that's like because people are brilliant. I mean, I always say pot growers are problem solvers, and you know, the same goes for extractors and hash makers because you have to use what you have, especially when the resources are finite or the information about how to accomplish it. You know, people don't necessarily openly share, I mean, they do more now than ever, but there was a huge period in time where I mean, these are trade secrets, you know, these are things that now become more public that are you know SOPs that people pass around. I mean, there was little to no SOPs, you know, for making hash when you know I showed up on the scene, you know, and and to be able to like learn as an OEM and from other people and focus solely on like what's in front of us. And I think that's where a lot of us also get caught is in that because as much as we're pursuing you know opportunity, we need to also remember what works and what got us here and and really ground ourselves out. And I think that's a big part of what running a business these days for us is when we go into a place, and I think that's the essence of what kind of the story we're trying to you know tell people here, you know, like what are the you know, you you you brought up in the beginning of this episode, Marcus, that there's a lot of you know, this is about the future is fresh frozen. I mean, I'm starting to see it trend in a way that it it only because it's it's it can. I mean, like recently we even put out a post to make you know, I'm kind of ranting, I'm on a little tangent here, but you know, we put out a post about some you know two-minute nitro sift, right? And you know, you get all the comments from all the you know socials, and folks are like, you know, oh, this was done 10 years ago, you know, or you know, Baroni did this, you know, clear scientists, right? And all respect and props to these originators and these hashmakers. And it's true, they did do something special, but a fundamental difference is that we're now doing it with live solventless sift. And you know, that's a fundamental factor that nobody was doing this with live material, you know, and in those days. So even if it's as simple as that evolution, you know, that's the the trend that we're on. So I mean, when you talk about sift, like live sift, like how common is live sift in circles that you're in now, even in 2026. I mean, of course, we all know, you know, even you know, live rosin has become popularized due to ice water hash, right? But that's because of the nature of how you know much ice water has become a part of the culture. Well, when you start removing water from the equation with something like sift, and now you have just live sift. I mean, there's so many benefits to it, you know, in terms of cold chain and minimum like minimized labor and um getting a top-tier, you know, full spectrum product. But you know, live sift requires a freeze dryer. And now you're able to, you know, have live static or you know, a live, you know, uh something that you are melting to a rosin, or even just a full melt that's just from no water involved, you know, um, that's a live product. It's you know, that's what's so crazy is is for us really because we're still the tip of the spear ourselves, you know. We're you know, a lot of times we find ourselves looking for resources and there's not many people to draw from, you know, we have to go in inward and and we have to talk to each other and we have to go in with our community. And um, you know, sometimes it's just hey, this thing works, but how do you scale that? How do you make this commercial? How do you actually take this process and turn it into a consumable that makes sense for your business? Because I mean, I I love six-star hash, you know, but I can't find any on a dispensary shelf. And even if I could, I I probably couldn't afford it. You know, who can, right? So that's something you do for your own personal stash. And I think that's the essence of one of the challenges that we find in front of us, and that's the story we're trying to tell. Because it's hard to make something affordable, you know, it's hard to make equipment that's affordable that that you know does all the things that you want it to do. You know, people underestimate what it takes as an OEM to bring something to market, and that's a you know, it's been a journey that we've been on, but from plastic to stainless, you know, from CO2 to liquid nitrogen, you know, it's a multi-use machine, so we're you know, we did the hardest pathway, you know, we're like, let's we're not just you know a wash, a washing machine, we also do dry sift and we also do trimming, you know. But because we use you know cryoagent as a freezing or cry, you know, cryogenic gas as a freezing agent, we're effectively able to do all those things, trimming, sifting, bubble, but in live applications. So now our units are six in one. And so now, you know, I don't just put a piece of equipment out and and say, hey, good luck, because there's plenty of those businesses out there, um, you know, and they're coming up every day, you know, and you go stand and try to talk to them and talk intelligently about a process, and you know, they don't know what they're doing, you know. They just have an engineer and probably stole somebody's design or a combination thereof. But to really have somebody understand a process from A to Z, you know, how to take something post-harvest, you know, and pre-processing, and to maximize, you know, when you when I get a question from somebody, it's like, well, what SKU are you making? It always starts there because you have to reverse engineer it because that's what draw, that's what draws the pathway to the end goal. Because we can get there, you can get there so many different ways. I mean, there's so many ways to you know get to the same destination, or as you know, cats being the theme here today, you know, skin that cat, right? And and that's kind of the the essence of like what we find ourselves really doing. It's just kind of thinking and when you start applying the cold chain factor to you know, we all know cannabis, man, and there's a lot of room for error there, you know, especially with dry material, but even dry material, people are you know not understanding that your trim sitting in a hot bag in the sun, those trichomes are coagulating and melting to each other. That's gonna translate even with dry trim, you know, whereas cold chain you go below 32 degrees, so you come, you know, if you if you go above the freeze point of 32 degrees, you're gonna have to tell you a collapse on a product that's already been frozen. So cold chain becomes such a factor, but but also with dry material, the same not cold chain effective, but you know, cool, dry, dark. So it's just really care for the we're learning more and more, you know. Every day we're all still learning about how to better care for our product and how to effectively get the most out of it because you need to get every piece of the animal, if you will.

SPEAKER_06 44:00

Well, you know, when you're going to talk about let's talk about that cellular uh damage of freezing and unfreezing and freezing.

SPEAKER_07 44:07

Can you get into that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Yeah, man. Um, you know, and and um um Rustin, you know, you got a lot to contribute to the conversation. So if you feel a tangent, you know, please grab on board of it, you know. Of course. You know, um don't be nervous, Rustin. Cold chain is really affecting the sense of as soon as you take a plant and you freeze it, right? It's the same principle like for a commoner, somebody doesn't necessarily know what we're talking about, right? So what is what's so important about cold chain? Well, if you're something everybody can relate to is growing an outdoor plant. Um you know, all agriculture, you know, there's many many things that when the first frost or the first freeze comes, you know, you gotta you gotta be prepared with the weather. That's why the almanac is so important, right? What's your what's when when is it when's everything gonna frost? Because if you come outside and like your cannabis plants and it's snowed, I mean you're it's tragic. You just what just happened? Well, the freeze point of 32 degrees occurred, everything froze, and so those ice crystals, you know, the water that's inside the plant, right? That it forms into an ice crystal and that explodes, right? And so that's okay as long as you preserve the cold chains. I mean, you get out and shop your plants before the sun melts the snow, and now you're relegated. Traditionally, you've been relegated to two pathways once you freeze a plant, and that's hydrocarbon extraction, and that's you know, ice water hash, right? Well, that's one of the things that I, you know, really embraced with cold chain was because with cryogenics, you know, especially in the very beginning, not really understanding, you know, I'm not a scientist, you know, I'm just a hash maker, I'm just a cannabis enthusiast, I'm a cultivator, I'm a smoker. That's okay. We have a scientist here if you need one.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

There's a scientist in the room.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Have any science questions? So when I'm when I'm running the resonator in the beginning, and I'm learning about CO2 because we understood some principles of you know, dry ice was popularized, right? You could take dry ice, shake your tram in a bag, and that was rudimentary, but you know, you look under a microscope, there's evidence of bruising trichomes and extra plant particulate because it breaks stuff up. And so CO2 was an obvious, like, oh, well, this is you know, liquid CO2 is the liquid version of the solid, dry ice, so that's gotta be better, right? And so that's really what the resonator was born out of was this pathway of figuring out how to introduce CO2 into the rotating chamber. And that's where our patent protection is around and all of our process and apparatus, you know, started with design, but it elevated. And in the in the in the process of it, you start understanding because that's what really happened, right? Like I'm freezing flour, you know, to because I I wanted a big live rosin back in like 2015 and during RD with this thing when we were first figuring it out, and rosin hits the scene, and we're like, oh, this is cool. Well, let's do it with some live material, and so we're blasting, and I'm not using a freeze dryer, and you know, it's oozing, it's a blood, it's a bloody mess. You're like, okay, doing something wrong, you know, and same with flowers. That was really the aha moment because I'm I'm trimming, you know, trimming with the resonators. Like when you see the CO2 trim product, it's it's mind-bending. It you have to see it to believe it. You know, once you see it actually trim, it's like better than a hand trim. It's the closest thing, if not better than when you show side by side, you know, processor or cultivator there strained that's been hand trimmed by their team and cryo trimmed by the resonator, they're literally can't tell the difference. You know, there might be a couple tell signs like a crow's foot that's still there because this the resonator is not designed to trim, it's a bladeless trimmer, so it's not designed to cut the crow's feet. But the reason I'm I'm eloquating this way is because the the reality of the cold chain is what hit us, right? So I'm I'm trimming dried dried flour, no adverse effect. Amazing trim. I throw wet flour in. Oh my gosh, it's not even fair how good it works. But what happened? You know, two hours later, I'm you know, I mean, I literally I tell the story like we popped a bottle of champagne when we did our first wet trim because we're like game over. Like this is like nobody's ever gonna trim again. And then um, when you go back to you look at the flour a couple hours later, it is all discolored and oxidized, right? And so you talk about cold chain, there's a direct example, right? We took a live plant, we literally threw it in a resonator, we cryo trim, blast the live plant. If I'd have taken that plant, which we've learned subsequently, you know, or since we you you put it right into a uh deep freezer, right? Now you can store it as long as you want, you know, and it was a it was that crossroads moment. And and so cold chain really is defined for me by saying once you go below the freeze point of 32 degrees, you have to maintain the cold chain until it's stabilized. You know, that's a simple way of really getting through, a long story. And so if you go below, once you freeze it, keep it frozen. If you're going to hydrocarbon, there's no adverse effect to water, so you can actually go directly from the freezer into the hydrocarbon column. Of course, there's other steps along the way. I'm very that's a very simple way of stating it. But if you're going in a solventless direction, you have to bring a freeze dryer into the equation. And that's where ice water hashes freeze dryers. That's where live sift requires a freeze dryer. Well, with smokable flowers, that was a whole new frontier for us. And with the relationship to how well the resonator worked as a wet trimmer, is what made us pursue freeze drying as a solution. Because there was a crossroads moment of like, well, maybe this is just a dry trimmer, you know. And then, you know, it was the nah, I knew there was something there. And you know, we kind of dug in, took the risk, you know, made an investment into a scientific freeze dryer. Uh man, when I mean, that's one of the current pathways that we're on. I know this is, you know, hash church, right? Talk about hash, you know, and and that's a big part of what we do. But smokable like freeze jars was like a relationship to hash. And the freeze-dried flour for us is such a major component of like our repertoire. And then when you get down to it, look, man, there's an attrition rate when you trim. I mean, 25, 30 percent on average, right? You only retain, you know, 60, you know, 70, 75, you know, percent of the product, you know, depending on the bud-to-leaf ratio and the care and the maintenance of how it was harvested. Well, cool. I take 60% of I have 100 pounds of fresh frozen and I have 60 pounds by the time I trim it, right? Just per se, you know, big math. And now that 60 pounds goes into a freeze dryer and I get a four to one ratio because it's 75% water weight, right? So, you know, you 60 pounds turns into 15 pounds of dried material. Well, what about that other 40%? That's all live sugar leaf, that's all top quality, you know, whole-bodied trim, because there's no scissors or blade that is chopped through any of that leaf. And so now when you look at our trim that's under a microscope, the resonator corral trim is sought after by extractors because we when you look that at under the scope, there's no scissors or blade. So there's whole body trichlome head still perfectly intact, and there's you know, it's not all leached with chlorophyll and other plant particulates. And so you have this top-tier sugar leaf that's live. And so now what are we gonna do? And for us, playing with our tech, well, what's our favorite thing to do? Get a two-minute sift, get the cream off the top, right? Now that sift, if remember, remember, right? I'm keeping everything cold. Like I trimmed, you know, I take my product, I pre-freeze my freeze dryer before it like it preheated oven. I load it with my flour, I take all that sugar leaf, I stack it in my freezer, get through the day's workflow. Okay, that when I'm ready, I change screens, clean up, switch flows. Now we're doing sift. I'm running two-minute sift to get everything off the top. Something with like a 150 mic, right? I'm rock and rolling. And I'm taking that sift, and same thing, I'm gonna put it in a freezer until the freeze jar is ready for it. Throw the live sift in the freeze jar. Well, I still have all the rest of that bio, but I only pulled the cream off. So that's premier sugar leaf as well. Well, that's let's do now, let's do biomass reduction. You know, and we define biomass reduction as anything above 200 micron is biomass reduction, and anything below 200 micron is trichome collection. And so there's still a lot of trichomes left on the flower after getting the cream. And so now let's bioreduce it, let's put a 400 mic on there, let's run this for 20 minutes, let's get all the trikes off of it. Now we're gonna load that into a hydrocarbon column. So we got sift to rosin. If we were to go ahead and press this, the live sift, or we just have a full melt sift, right, without having to take any further refinement, or we can static that live sift. Now we also have sift to hydrocarbon and we have smokable flowers. All just came from that live sift, not to mention all the different pathways you can go. So, you know, it's really just opening up the spectrum to like when you go to a dispensary as a consumer and you see something that says live in front of it, that means it came from fresh frozen. That means it's gonna have a fuller spectrum, it's gonna have the the highest preserved metabolic footprint that that plant could have achieved before. Because you know, even when you hang dry and cure a plant, it naturally degrades. There's gonna be uh even in the best cure process in the world, the plant is naturally degrading, you're losing some potency. There's no way around it. Now, to your point earlier, Marcus, all that's fine and dandy. Yay, I preserved everything. I have live. Well, then you go take a joint and you provide it up with the lighter, or you get your banger and you get you heat it up. Yeah, it instantly decarbs, and now you know it's you're heating it up. But that's what's you know, that's what's funny about flour is you know, THCA flour, you know, everybody knows as like hemp, right? But what's funny about smokable freeze-dried cannabis is even something that's testing it 30%, um, it has a under it's under the threshold of 0.3 on the Delta 9 because it hasn't decarbed. And so that's something that naturally happens with a freeze-dried product, and that's kind of mind-blowing for folks. Um, and you know, it decarbs as you fire it. And so, you know, the pathway just becomes preservation, and you know, now we have a new pathway for live, you know, fresh frozen. So you can take your harvest, put it all in a deep freezer, and on command, like we've done this so far our own studies, um, just personally. Um, um we're up to year number five, where I have frozen product, and I've every year I pull some fresh frozen out, and you know, that's what we're smoking on, right? And and we're continuing to make the extracts and whatever's left over. And it's um as long as we preserve, you know, freeze it in a way where oxygen is not able to access it and it's not oxidizing and it's in a deep freezer. Um, I mean, who's to say how long we're really gonna have? Um, I mean, obviously it diminished quality diminishes to some degree, but it's somewhat anecdotal. Um, but the fact that we're I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_06 55:12

I I've I froze flour. This was when when rosin was very new. I froze flour. It was dry flour, it wasn't even fresh frozen, and I froze dry flour and I put it in my freezer and I left it there for six years, and it was not sealed properly, it was not like anything was done properly. Well, I made flour rosin with that flour, like six years after I put it in the freezer. And dude, it was some of the loudest rosin I've ever made. Like it was insane. People said it looked like a baby's diaper because it was still on parchment. So I'd open the parchment and they'd be like, dude, that looks like baby shit. Like, what the fuck? But if I opened it, someone would literally smell it across the room. So yeah, preservation, man. Cold chain. Cold chain for the wind. Well, it's and you know what, it's an interesting discussion too, especially while I'm here making traditional hash, because traditional hash obviously requires it's quite the opposite. It is literally the opposite. What you're doing is you're aging it, you're creating that skin, you're totally altering the volatile organic compounds that change and shift into something that is more known as uh a traditional hash. You know, with hash, we want to cure, which is quite the opposite of preserving. When it comes to full mount bubble, live hash rosin, you know, most resins, aside from say a traditional pressed hash, because that pressed hash is gonna create that skin on the outside of the hash that's going to preserve what's going on on the inside. Obviously, the outside of the hash, there's gonna be some alterations in the volatile organic compounds. It's gonna create that skin, and then that skin becomes our super important component of the curing, right, of that final product. So it's it's neat that I'm literally doing the opposite of the cold supply chain right now.

SPEAKER_08 57:10

I digress. I digress.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

Um, so you know, when you uh when you think about the history of frozen foods, right? I mean there was a lot of um serendipity in how they came across the process of flash freezing, right? So in a flash freezing process where you're you're taking material cold very, very quickly, you don't get the opportunity to form large nucleation sites for the ice crystals, right? So you get very, very small ice crystals, right, in flash freezing. And you know, as it turns out, I mean that was like the whole magic of bird's eyes process. And I don't know if you've ever seen the television show Um The Food That Built America. That's a pretty uh one-sided view of things. It's not America, but it's the rest of the world. There's actually an episode that they talk about uh bird's eye and how um uh uh Marjorie Post, who is the heir of the CW Post um family, sort of saw the you know, promise. I mean, people didn't have this was before microwave ovens, right? And I think it was before people would normally have freezers in their house, you know. So the notion that people would go and buy frozen food, you know, and back then again, I think they really were sort of perfecting the process of flash freezing because if it's something that's like meat or something like fish or you know, beef or anything that's got um that has water in it, that so let's and we could talk about this again specifically for plants because plants really have two kinds of water, right? There's water that's part of the water activity of a material, right, which is related to the percent moisture, and that could be something that could be dried in a vacuum, like you can completely desiccate that. When you do, you do lose terpenes in that process. So it's somewhat a little difficult to actually take material, plant material, and measure percent water per se. That's why they'd have this water activity measurement, and that's very common in you know cannabis testing labs. In fact, if they don't test for water activity, if you're reporting cannabinoid content back to dry weight basis of material. So, like whenever you look at a COA and you're looking at like the percent THC or THCA or whatever the cannabinoid you're looking at, it's supposed to be corrected to on a dry weight basis, but that nugget that goes into the testing lab isn't completely dry. So the way that they can report the HPLC results on a dry weight basis when they don't use a dry nug, because when you dry that nug, you do all kinds of other affecting like when you dry a nug and you're losing the water, you're also losing terpenes. And so anything that you lose is going to drive cannabinoid content up. So that's a potential way for again testing labs to basically dial up their THC results is that they can basically test the dried bud. But what they're supposed to do is test the bud as it's received, and as it's received, there's water associated with it. Again, going back to the bird's eye process, the flash freezing process is done so rapidly. TJ, you know this, right? In flash freezing, like if you take a piece of salmon and you flash freeze it, it's done so so rapidly that there's not time for like the ice crystals kind of migrate together to make to make bigger crystals, and it's the bigger crystals that disrupt the cell walls. And like if you're freezing a piece of meat, then when you go to thaw it out, now all that damaged cell wall makes the meat rubbery or it just doesn't give the same, you know, flaky texture when you when you make it anymore. But I guess again, in relation to plant material, it's interesting because the cell wall itself is held together with water molecules, right? So if you completely desiccate the herb, if you completely remove all water, you're basically going to destroy all the plant cells, and you're just gonna have a, you know, it's like taking a filing cabinet and just dumping all the files on the floor and say, okay, you know, there's there's a it's just you know, you're taking shit that's compartmentalized and moving shit around. So I guess how it relates to the storage of the material and whether or not it's useful in terms of hash making is that if you don't damage the cell walls, if you can do flash freezing where it's you know, again, you don't you're not gonna see. I mean, I I everyone knows what freezer burn looks like. When when you take something out of the freezer and there's like kind of like a layer of ice crystals, like say you, I don't know, I don't know, butchered some meat or something like that, and you take something out of the freezer and there's a bunch of ice cream, that's free what they would call freezer burn, and that sometimes attributes to again, a just change in flavor and taste and texture of whatever you're freezing. But I guess as it relates to plant material, again, you would think that a flash freezing process would be better because you're damaging less cell walls and less of those compartments that could release, I don't know, chlorophyll, pigment, yada yada yada, whatever else. So maybe that's just the area to have discussion on flash freezing.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:29

Yeah, man, when you're talking about it, we would definitely notice when we were um, you know, flash freezing, uh frozen material and then putting it into a freeze dryer versus something that wasn't flash frozen. Um, those larger ice crystals um they created when you would pull it out. Sometimes it was more susceptible to like the humidity. So if you were opening your weed in Hawaii or somewhere, you know, you had a really moist morning on the west coast, sometimes it would have it would you know retain moisture or change to its environment easier. And um, some of that I think is was due to you know larger ice crystal, larger ice crystal growth. So it's you know that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:08

Well, and so that the that water is coming from somewhere, right? And so if you're if you're in in the process of freezing, and again, I think this is again the basis of what we call freezer burn, is that uh that water kind of uh condensates and then freezes like out of the matrix of whatever you're freezing, whether it's plant material or salmon or beef or whatever you're freezing, right? And so now you've taken water away from that, that's gotta, you know, again, damage the structure in a way, but the question really becomes like, how does that affect the quality of the hash? So if you took you know, so just to calibrate everyone so we know what we're talking about. So so TJ knows this, right? So so dry ice is minus 78, right? Minus 78 centigrade, right? Liquid nitrogen is like what like 198 or 196, minus 196.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

CO2 is negative 108 Fahrenheit, and nitrogen negative 325 Fahrenheit.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:17

Fahrenheit, yeah. I yeah, I always think like a scientist, I'm stuck in like Celsius and grams and tried to tried to defect over to the metric system during high school, but it still hasn't worked, right? So, like if you think about it again, like I mean, I I I don't know, like if you took so it's funny you mentioned Baroni because I think you know a couple things were going on back when they were doing that. Um, and I think a lot of it was just, you know, they were in there for the first time. They you're right. The innovation around live TJ, you're absolutely right, did not happen until I think, like, you know, Kind Bill. And all those people started doing live resin extractions, you know, and they're the Denver crew over at um uh uh mindful, and a lot of that live resin technology, you know, I think kind of like spilled over into Rosin, like, oh yeah, totally makes sense, right? When you fresh freeze the material, you're taking a snapshot of the terpene profile right at harvest, right? You're not you're you're you're you're not curing, right? Like Marcus was talking about curing before. Curing is the whole process that, yeah, you have the first process of drying, which is just the transpiration of water out of the plant material, but then there's the curing process, which typically happens uh, you know, anaerobically, right? You're in a jar, but you'd burp your jars or your containers or whatever you're doing. But there's there's uh there's oxidation going on there, there's volatilization going on there. There's kind of like in the same process of the cheese world and in the wine world, you're there's a certain chemistry in the natural sense that's in that aging sense is really having a function of the environment itself of how you're aging it and how you're doing all that. With with fresh frozen, I mean, the cool thing about it again is that I think that you're looking at terpene levels that were way beyond what we were seeing with just like you know, making you know, shatter and all that. And so, like in some cases, again, the THCA molecule is a crystalline solid, right? So if you think about an extract of cannabis, it's gonna be high in this crystalline solid, so it's probably gonna be a solid, right? Shatter, pull and snap, right? But when we started doing live resin, now there was so much more terpenes in it that now shit was making sauce, right? And so as an Italian, and hey, it's Sunday, right? We all celebrate sauce on Sunday, right? My in my family, it was never gravy, it was always sauce. I don't know about you guys, but you know, gravy was restricted to roast beef and turkey and shows some Italians. In my family, gravy was considered a meat and it it's gravy, otherwise, it's sauce. But I always like you know, spaghetti sauce. I don't know if for some reason it was always but but now you said extract, and this is why it plays into cold storage is that you know the terpenes are really the differentiator in your grow. We know these monsters are gonna make THCA and they're gonna make lots of it. Now the question is is like the terpene profiles are gonna be different in different varieties, and you're gonna have different saturation points for THCA. So, in some cases, those live extracts are gonna be liquids, in other cases, they're gonna be mixtures of liquids and solids, in other cases, they're just gonna be solids, right? Because you don't have enough terpenes to keep everything in solution. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:09

All right, I want to go back to something you said because it's uh I would love to sorry, I was rambling there. No, it was great. I appreciated everything you said, and I liked the you know, you're you're more of an oil guy, so I see your perspective. I will say this when I started making bubble hash in the 90s, um, I did I used dry material, and I used material that created six-star bubble hash for bone-dry material, and that was what I used to make. When it used to melt into a liquid, and that all the first bubble anyone saw for me was six that was six-star, was made with a cake mixer, ice, and a bucket. And that was six-star bubbles. So I would put this out to the community to see if you can find online which came first BHO fresh frozen or bubble hash fresh frozen. And the reason I say that is because I I was getting six star, but very few other people were from dry material. And it was very early on that people in the bubble hash world were like, we're starting to use fresh material instead of dry. This could have been 2001, 2000. I I don't remember, but I'd love for Nicatee, right? Well, he was definitely one of them, but nicotine also wasn't around in 2001. I don't think nicotine hit the scene until around 07 or 08. Yeah. So when you really like jump into the history, like everyone thinks the history is this, oh, back in the day, but back in the day, there were like nine different back in the days. And how far back in the day did you go? You know, for me, it was the beginning. There was nobody who was doing it, it was only dry, and then all of a sudden, and I can't remember. I remember a little bit calling feeling like both fresh frozen and microplaning happened very close together. And these were two ways to get a full melt product from a product that wouldn't be full melt if you didn't do that. So the way I looked at it was like, oh, they're cheating, they're cheating. Instead of just growing great fucking weed and expressing it to the perfection, they've got to spread the heads and open them up. So now all the oil is on the outside of the head. So when you pass a flame over it, of course it's gonna boil and melt. But when the heads were intact and that wax membrane was so thick and you held the flame across it, it did not melt. And so I'm moving the term foam melt back then.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:33

Who was doing that in 2001, Marcus? Who did you say?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:37

This I don't have an exact memory of exactly how it came to be. Like I said, I was getting full melt six-star bubble from bone dry material. And so it was only a couple of years, two or three years in, that people stopped sieving their resin and they started microplaning, and people stopped running dry material, they started running fresh material. And I just thought, look, I'm not against running fresh material, but if you dry that fresh material out and you run it and it's like four-star, then you need to do some serious fucking work in your grow room before you come up with any more faux ways to get melty hash. Like fix the problem, and then you'll see down the road, there's a it's it, there's a lot, you know, like you take great material and you do the cold supply chain, you're gonna end up with something absolutely spectacular. There's no doubt about it. What I'm thinking is, especially in the hemp world, cold supply chain is so, so very important. It's more important for people who grow mids. It just is. I mean, if you're growing mids, you better protect what's barely there. If you're growing exceptional cannabis, I mean, maybe I was losing what what could I have possibly been losing? 5%, 10%? It was a six-star bubble. It melted into a liquid. Everyone was like, what the fuck is that? So I I do have this interesting sort of perspective because I was old, and I remember kind of being like, okay, I'll start running fresh frozen. I don't know if it was 04, 03, 05, 02. After 30 years, uh, it's hard to remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:09

Yeah. It does. Well, it was around that time I think I first turned heard the term bubble hash and was out on Fish Store, and I want to say it was 2001 before the hiatus. But um Zarathustra. So, yeah, so to go back to something you had said or something we were talking about earlier. So, Marcus, if you're thinking, you know, again, like I think a lot of hemp growers who go into it naively, I mean, the Amish kind of knew this because they practice tobacco cultivation for years outdoors, is that you only grow to the capacity to which you can dry, right? So I don't know if you know anybody who planted, you know, acres and acres of hemp, and then when it came to harvest, it's like, oh shit, what do we do now? Need a fucking barn big enough to hang those 10 acres, right? And that's that's not a well in in tobacco, I mean, they so yeah, so you grow to you grow the acreage to the extent to which you can hang and dry that tobacco and get a return on it. You know, I think with a lot of hemp, a lot of people would like, well, I'll just freeze it, you know. So you go out and you you know hack these big plants down, throw it into a super sack and freeze it. Now you got a bunch of you know unprocessed material that's out in the freezer.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:39

Costing you seven grand a month on fucking electricity if you're keeping it cold, costing you all kinds of money.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:45

So so let's talk about that, Marcus. So like scaling is super important, and certainly when it comes to cold supply chain, that's why I think you know, deep pockets are are there to basically say, okay, uh all you need is more money, you know, to have like bigger freezers or reefer trucks or you know, whatever you need to maintain your cold supply chain, especially like on the on the beverage side here in the States. That's one of the reasons why the cannabis-based beverages is such a popular market segment for folks who already have the established cold supply chain. For this, this is just another skew or another couple skews for them, right? They're just putting more product out through and getting more return on their existing investment and infrastructure. But anyway, um, yeah, I mean I digress. The economics there are are very compelling because you know it costs a lot of money.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:53

If cucumbers and tomatoes can do it, I'm sure we can do it as well. No matter how little cannabis sells for, it will always sell for more than cucumbers and tomatoes. And I was in a facility maybe five years ago, and they had a cold room that you could drive, I don't know, about a hundred semi-trailers into. It was like a giant warehouse that was like super cold. And I was like, oh, this is what you do. You just cut all your hot house tomatoes, cucumbers, and peppers. They're selling to like Japan and Asia. Um, they're an and an Indian family in Canada that Ian Davidson brought me to. Spectacular infrastructure on this. But what I'm saying is, if someone invested $100 million into tomatoes and cucumbers and peppers and spinach to keep it cold, well, then there's definitely going to be someone to invest $100 million for cannabis because even on the lowest, no prohibition, horrible margin, we still get more than like 42 cents a pound.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:54

Yeah, for perspective, when you talk about scaling it like that, and that's where the boom.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:59

And when you start it's gonna be what was that number for, Marcus, just before we move on. What sorry? So the number 42 cents a pound was what?

SPEAKER_06 1:17:09

Oh, like what they're wholesaling, like peppers and cucumbers, and like these guys that are selling just food in Canada, and they have this these massive cold rooms that are the size of a Walmart, right? You just drive in, it's a giant warehouse, and it's like cold, like cold to keep all the fruit from fucking you know right go going bad. And if they can have a cold supply chain and keep that giant building cold and fucking drive those peppers across the country or fly them to Asia, there must be enough, we must be able to do it in cannabis as well. We must. Because they don't get they don't get a thousand dollars a pound for peppers. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:49

So it's a top down, right? You got to think about it from the concept of the consumer. First is gonna be the one to come with the demand, right? Is that is it chicken egg, right? Is the demand gonna drive the farmer to create the fresh frozen, or is it the other way around? Is the farmer gonna, you know, recognize or the processor, the savings associated and the higher, you know, are they gonna get a combination of savings from reduced labor and uh a higher ticket because there's a a premium for the final end skew? Like what that's the winning combo, and that's kind of the essence of what cold chain is, you know, giving people a chance to accomplish because there's when you start unpacking, you know, from a when you look at you know your balance sheet or your cogs, you know, associated with A to Z creating a SKU, I mean, those hidden expenses, every single dollar you spend to process your product devalues it. And you know, look, we're all trying to run a profitable business. I mean, of course, demand is going to drive a certain supply, but that's the essence of what we're that's the tackle, that's the elephant in the room. That's the challenge, is us as and that's what we bring to the table. Like every day as a resonator, that's what we're faced with when our clients are calling us saying, here's the problem I'm trying to solve for. They're doing their research and they're coming up with like, hey, this is a pathway that seems valid, you know, for what my experience is. So for what I'm trying to have it be. And so now it becomes on us to unpack how it is that you know, it's it's on some levels like we almost have to understand our clients' business better than they do, because so many people are, you know, they might have been growing cannabis for 20 years, but they don't have a live SKU on their shelf. And so what does fresh frozen mean? And what does cold chain mean? Becomes, I mean, it's a whole nother world. Just like every lane that we're talking about here is its own. I mean, there's a super highway, but you know, sift to hydrocarbon or just hydrocarbon lane in its own, so rosin, you know, solventless lane on its own. And so Rosin, you know, solventless has all of its multiple different pathways, and then you have flour, and you start talking about trip when you introduce live flour and dry flour to decrease, and it just goes, you know, the pathway becomes like I said, it's a super highway, you know, of opportunity. And so, how do you you get drowned, you drown in opportunity, you know, and so we have to find a way to say what's what's the thing, you know, for us that and sometimes that means eating the whole animal. That's kind of where we're at with the industry because there's been so much, we just there's just no room for error anymore, and you have to kind of understand how to really get the most out of what you're doing, you know, and that's why you know you talk about scaling, it's like you know, like Russin's one of our chief techs, you know, he gets out into the field and sees, you know, he he experiences this every day with solving problems in real time, you know, as opposed to just like on a can on a phone call. It's hard to diagnose. You know, a lot of this stuff comes down to it's not an it's standard SOP because your environment's different, your setup's different, the equipment that you're using is different. You have people have different access to, you know, different types of you know, what's your power grid, you know, what's your your storage space, you know, what's your you know, then you gotta think about the workflow. And then the backup generator, if you're going into fresh frozen, is critical because that's probably one of the biggest exposures people don't think about is what happens if power goes out. You know, so as long as you have a backup plan and a generator or at least a you know a plan in place, you know, it's like a fire drill. You need to know what's gonna happen if you know the power company says, hey, we're having a power event, you know, what do you what are you gonna do? So those things become real factors that have to be considered when you're trying to get into fresh frozen. I mean, you're talking about ice crystal sizes earlier, Mark. You know, rust and can get why don't you spill into some of the ice crystal size formation and the reality of how it translates in these skews, Russ?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:44

I mean, yeah, that's kind of what I was talking about with uh um with the with the live flower. Um, you know, that that the smaller the ice crystal, the I think the easier it is to remove from the plant, too. Um, at least, you know, I guess, you know, if we're talking about freeze-drying cannabis and the size of the ice crystal, um, you know, you've got two different stages of freeze drying. You have your primary and then you have your secondary. The primary drying is kind of what you were talking about earlier, Mark. Um, your your water that's not um bound, right? And so that comes off. Like what they call active. Yeah, your active water. Yep. So your active water.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:21

That's water that can be dried away, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:24

Yep, yep. And so that sublimates, you know, the first 12 hours of that primary drying removes probably like 80% of your um 80% of your water, and then the rest of it is, you know, it's kind of the desorption stage. The second stage is where you're just more wicking that material, and that's probably like what you're talking about when you're losing those terpenes, right? Um, is is more towards that end, and that's when your temperatures are a little bit higher and your freeze-drying stage too. So, you know, it's important to, and that's kind of been the whole problem with freeze-drying cannabis. Um, you know, as we found through the last several years of working with it, is um, you know, the first people that were doing it were there was no way for them to know when to pull it out. So they were over drying it, and then, you know, you're wicking all that moisture, and then you're like it could have been dry six hours past, and there was no water to remove, and it's, you know, they're they're not controlling their temperatures or staging. And so they put a really bad name out for freeze-dried flour. But to tie that back into the ice crystals is um with that specific skew, um, I think it's more on a back end, and maybe it's um just with how it's going to be affected by the environment around it. And um, that's that's been the biggest thing that I've noticed with it. Um, moving it around and taking it around is um it it as you open up big quantities of it, it'll take on moisture a lot quicker if it has those larger ice crystals, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:49

Well, and and doesn't it like just in general in production, doesn't that create all kinds of issues? I I would just imagine again, if you have certain amount of freezer burn per se um on different samples that you know, if you you take them out, the clock starts ticking immediately before you have a bunch of soggy weed, right? I mean, so like so the the way that those that ice is desiccated from the plant material is now concentrated and will create a puddle of water, right? And now, you know, yeah, you get soggy weed, I would imagine, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:27

I would also mention that the the the unbound water, which is the water he was talking about, this is the water that feeds your yeast and mold count. This is non-cellular water. This is water that you want to get out, and the real conversation between bound and the unbound water is right, you have so you go into GMP and GMP, the proper bound water is probably 0.6. People bring it down to 0.55, they bring it down to 0.45. When you get it down to 0.45, you are literally reducing 7% of the weight of your crop by removing bound water. The reason they do that is because they're nervous about yeast and molds. And the higher level that you're in for regulatory framework, the more safe you're going to be. But in reality, you know, even at 0.55, you're losing about 3% of the weight of your crop. And this is actually cellular weight. It's money, and it's not only money. Once you unplug bound water and you crack that little seal, and bound cellular water now can come out. Well, what do you think it's gonna do when it gets into a package, say in Colorado? It's gonna go bone dry, it's gonna turn to dust. So there's a protecting a protection mechanism involved with the bound water where you you want to get as close to it as possible, but you don't want to crack it and go into it. And this is, I have very little knowledge about this. And for anyone that thinks that I may have made a mistake, please correct me. We are going to have a hash church on bound and unbound water in the near future. I've had great conversations with Dave from Canotrol, who came from the charcuterie board industry, which is meats and cheeses. And believe it or not, meats and cheeses off gas, very similarly. Um Vermont. He absolutely is, yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:14

Yeah, well, we noticed that too. So um, not to tie it back to the to the freeze-drying process, but it's correlating very well here. Um, is like the further that we took that when we were like when we were first doing it and wicking that um bound water out, um, it wasn't it wouldn't smoke good. Like it was like it couldn't go through an enzymatic process because there was no water activity for the the enzymes were like dormant, right? They couldn't actually start breaking down sugars and chlorophylls and going through that that curing process because there was no water available, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:26:45

Um, and I think you know, we've talked a little bit about this. I don't really know that we have good data on it, but water does play a role in rosin formation. You know, I I I would I I would think that that's you know, just under rosin formation that there might be all kinds of different mechanisms for the release of the unbound water, you know, not just bound water, but uh the other thing is that you know, obviously, I mean the more water so so water water can be water can help, but it could hurt, you know, like so like if you're if you're not desiccate so so I I guess uh maybe Rustin, you could um go back on something you had said. We were talking about first just freezing, but then you were discussing freeze drying. So freeze drying is just freezing under vacuum, right? Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:47

And so if you're pulling a vacuum, if well it's not just freezing under a vacuum, there's also heat involved, which is part of the sublimation.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:55

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

Yeah, this entire vacuum is lyophilization.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:58

Yeah, more things to talk about. Yes. Like I was just gonna say what a scientist call lyophilizing. And so typically you'd have like a cold trap there. So if you were removing mostly water, like wholesaling all that water out, do you get a fragrant fraction there of terpenes in that uh in that cold trap?

SPEAKER_05 1:28:22

Yeah, you can you can put a cold trap on your freeze dryer, but you know, a lot of the the terpenes that are being removed are water soluble, so they'll actually be in the ice on the ice bank.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:34

Yeah, so that would create so like if you thaw out that ice, it creates basically a sol. I mean, just same thing like ice water hash, you know, water, right? I mean, yeah, there's terpenes that are dissolved in there. So is that fragrant at all?

SPEAKER_05 1:28:51

Oh, the water? I mean, yeah, it kind of has a smell, but it's it's pretty diluted, and there's other like hydrosols and stuff in there too.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:58

Well, also, that's one of the key distinction that should be noted here is uh you know, about vapor pressure control because deep vacuum is where those terpenes really volatize. There's no way around it. And so, you know, having vapor pressure control in combination with your lyophilization process is something that really you know, we we took on as a relationship to flour because it was a pretty obvious um pathway where recognizable and coas even you know reflect you know more potent product um in both terpenes and cannabino uh cannabinoids post lyophilization because it's preserving it in its optimum state. And when you're going deep vacuum, you know, not only is it not present on the COAs, but it's pretty obvious, you know, from the nose. And I mean that was a night and day distinction that we discovered when in our pathway of our story, how to freeze dry cannabis, because at first there was deep vacuum and we were volatizing all the turps and we were getting a mixed variety of results, but it was lackluster on the nose. And then as soon as we started identifying that vacuum control was a critical factor, and we started figuring out how to control you know vacuum control, and then what was not only how to get vacuum control, because I did use I used to do a manual with the the first one was a $15 bleeder valve from Ace Hardware, you know, that I found a way just to put into the system so that I could, but it was you know, it was it would spike, and it was every 15 minutes I'd have to monitor it, you know, waking up, but half it wasn't digital, so you'd have this vapor pressure that's being created, and then it couldn't condense fast enough in the freeze dryer, so it's constantly moving, and so you would try to digitally sit there and bleed it. So we finally figured that out, and when we did, we'd like, okay, it was night and day, like, oh, there they are, there's the turps. Wow, and then you know, you started getting into moisture, you know, targeted control, knowing how to properly you know pulling.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:54

I'm kind of excited um to start playing with that with bubble hash and live sift and to see if you know if that translates, because it's been translating with flowers. So is that going to translate with with the sift and the bubble hash, you know, because right now the whole industry is you know using harvest rides and using these others, like there's not a lot of people that are controlling vapor pressure with their bubble hash. And I'm I think it's gonna help maintain some of those turbs. So it'll be interesting to see.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:18

Well, we know it will because we've been doing it with you know, doing hash inside of our you know, like our high life units, like we work with the you know, large commercial companies like Cutin, um, the leader in the world, and freeze dryers, you know, based out of New Zealand, we partnered with to develop freeze dryers for cannabis to do this at scale, right? And you know, but that's not really accessible to you know the smaller labs. And so we actually just launched a brand new, you know, uh freeze dryer line, the high life freeze dryer line with TCI. And we have hash dryers and bud dryers. Um, the bud dryers have vapor pressure control built in with you know virtual cannabis recipes or built for cannabis, and so you know, popcorn button status and the hash dryers have that upgradable feature. So you know, we're gonna be able to start seeing this implemented in the industry. Um, you know, right now, this is live. So, you know, we're we're taking it to the streets, you know, and really um I think it's helping us and the rest of the industry to raise its game.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:14

And um, we're yeah, we we we kind of did something cool too with the hash dryers, is we have probes in there as well, so you can have a better idea instead of having to pop open your you know, your freeze dryer, check your hash, put it back in, go under vacuum. Um, you know, that temperature is just you're you're gonna be able to tell when your hash is down based on the temperature.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:31

So they're not just modern upgrades, they're probe-driven recipes, and this is this is amazing because based off of the performance of the probes, you know exactly what's going on, relationship of the product temperature to the shelf temp.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:44

And then so these are probe sensors basically. Yeah, but it's probe driven, not just I I want to limit, I want to link you guys up with Andrew, who's the CEO of the Rosin Reactor Company. And this guy's dad was like a sensor savant. Like I can't he he he can tell you the story, but I am absolutely putting you guys together.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:08

Andrew is sample automation, it is sample automation. Okay, yeah, I actually got the pleasure to meet them.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:15

Um, this dude's on another level when it comes to understanding sensors. He's just like he's the full melt sensor guy. If that you know what I mean, he's the 90 micron sensor guy. It's unbelievable. Oh shit, my computer's gonna die. I better plug my computer in here. Holy shit. Holy shit, boys. Could you imagine? Just running hash church, and then all of a sudden the whole thing shuts down because I didn't plug my computer in. That would have been awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:45

Has that ever happened?

SPEAKER_06 1:33:47

Um, I feel like everything's happened, but I don't know if that one has happened. I definitely like my phone died. My phone died in a in a in a crazy uh uh power failure. I remember that was Skunkman Sam's episode after he passed away. It was our first episode after he was gone. It was a very difficult episode to do, and I had to do it on my phone because there was no power in my house. It had snowed the night before, and a tree fell down on the line. So just craziness. Okay. All right, I'm gonna go on mute because I am going to be doing something loud here for a little bit, but uh talk amongst yourself and continue the conversation. Um I I I'm excited. Also, if Colin or anyone tries to come in and I don't see it, just say something because I have you guys in my ears, but I will be on mute.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:47

Marcus, can I share?

SPEAKER_08 1:34:50

You should be able to go ahead, try. Just let's see if we uh if I've got to give you permission or not.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:59

It says send request. Perfect.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:03

That's easy.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:06

I would love to just make it so everyone can share forever, but it resets it every time on me, and I haven't found that setting, but you can share it. You can share it.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:19

I can see it.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:22

Okay. What do you see?

SPEAKER_05 1:35:26

Yeah, I see screening results.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:29

Okay, so you can see that. Okay. So here let me put it in the slideshow mode. Let's see. Can you see it now? Okay. Can you see that? Can you see this next page?

SPEAKER_05 1:35:44

Yeah, the next page, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:46

Yeah, okay. So this is the so I got back some data uh from so the National Cancer Institute has got a um a screening process where they look at different um tumor cell lines, and they just so happen to have 60, so it's called the NCI 60, National Cancer Institute 60. And so we had a bunch of compounds uh evaluated. I don't know if you could see these structures, but this is uh HHCA, which is hydrogenated THCA, and when you hydrogenate it, you make both 9R isomer and you make a 9S isomer.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:24

So tell me what what does that mean? Back up for a second, because what what do you mean when explain what that process is?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:32

Okay, so um so the plant makes THCA, right? And so when you take THCA and you add hydrogen to it, it converts THCA into HHCA. Similar to HHC, so you've probably heard about HHC. HHC is hydrogenated THC, right? And so when you hydrogenate, you add hydrogen to a double bond, usually in the molecule. In this case, if you could see the structure here, there's no double bond where there's normally a double bond in THCA. So this is what we call HHCA. And when you hydrogenate THCA, you make a mixture of the 9R isomer as well as the 9S isomer. Um I don't know, can you see the can you see my screen? Okay, yeah, I see this. Okay, cool. Um so um we've also now hydrofluorinated the double bond. So in the case of adding hydrogen to the double bond, we make HHCA. In the case of hydrofluorinating it, we make this nine fluoro. So now there's a fluoro uh atom here, a fluorine atom that's covalently connected to the structure now. And so people hadn't looked at the nine fluoro derivatives yet. So we're the first people to look at these, and as it turns out, so this is the hydrofluorinated version of THC. So when you take THC and you hydrofluorinate it, you make this nine-fluoro HHC. And this is a super active compound. Uh, I'll show you the data for this in a second.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:23

Can I dab it?

SPEAKER_03 1:38:26

Uh well, no, probably not. I wouldn't dab any of these yet. These are experimental compounds, not intended for dabbing.

SPEAKER_10 1:38:35

Uh what are they intended for?

SPEAKER_03 1:38:39

Okay, so someone's telling me that they can't see the right side of the slide. Can you guys see the slide up there? Yeah, I can see the whole slide. Oh, you can see it. All right, so so here's what the data looks like. So so uh in this case, we we also used HHCA as a mixture of both the R and the S. So here's what the data looks like.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:04

And so you have your picture, you have my drive, Crusher's XLS library. If you have the wrong page open, so you need to hit the tab on what you want to share. You're sharing your page, but it's your drive that you're sharing. There you go.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:19

No, I think there's those two things. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:23

Was there well? That's the that's the image now. I see, I see 9R H H C A, I see all the colors, I see the graph. But before that, it was pictures of like flowers and and and machines and stuff. It was your one drive.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:38

Oh, wait a second. I don't think that's my one drive at all. It was mine.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:42

That is that was TJ's.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:44

Yeah, oh, it was TJ's. Well, just shut the screen.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:47

If both of you are sharing simultaneously, yeah. I mean, you can't switch you. Okay, so you can switch between the two, but the people watching can't. Yeah, that's right. So only one at a time sharing, and then we won't have that problem.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:01

Okay, pretty challenge. Okay, yeah. So what these are are these are all different hour over here, guys. These are all different tumor cell lines, and so up top here we have leukemia cell lines, these are um uh lung cancer cell lines, this is colon cancer, this is um central nervous system cancer, so like brain cancer, here's melanova, here's um ovarian cancer, um here's renal cancer, prostate cancer, and and so what you see here are these bars, and so certain bars are bigger than others, and so what this represents right here in the middle is basically the 0% growth. And so, what you want to look for is uh something where you have no growth of the cell at all. That would be something called um static. So it's um uh it's not enabling the growth of the cell, but in this case, with this bar that really extends far here, it not only uh was static at the zero point, but it actually killed the cancer cell itself. So you want to see these kinds of bars go over here to the right because that indicates that basically above the zero point, you're not only keeping the cells in check, but you're basically killing the cells themselves, right? And so this is the nine.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:29

They're triggered to go through their natural death process.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:32

Yeah. Well, this is basically so this is a super, hey ATN, this is a super high throughput assay where basically what they use is they use something called a cell glow tighter assay, which basically generates uh light or color uh depending on what format they're using. But basically, I think this is light, and and so they do this in a super high throughput format. So basically, they have cells in this 96 well plate, and they basically put solutions of our compound in there. And in this case, these solutions were at a concentration of 10 micromolar, which is what they that's where they first start when they do this kind of testing. And so, yeah, you could see that this this compound was pretty good at keeping the cells in check, but it didn't really kill many of the cells except for this variety up here, so it was just selective for killing that. So that's R isomer. What we see with the S isomer is the S isomer is much more active, right? You can kind of just see going back and forth between R and S that looks like the R isomer is much more active, especially against these leukemia cell lines, which is pretty interesting. But um so this is the hydrogenated uh isomer. This is the excess isomer.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:59

Going to the previous one, do you think that's because of the the uh uh blood flow that's happening that's traveling and bringing everything along?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:06

We don't know. We don't. I mean, this is a extremely high throughput assay that's basically in place to pick a winner from a bunch of losers, and it's done. There's no further data than that. Yeah, it's done in such a high throughput way that if they do find something that looks interesting, they'll take it for more advanced testing. So you could kind of see now you look at the S isomer, the S isomer is definitely more active than the R isomer. And then when you look at the hydrofluorinated isomer, it's definitely less active. So you can see you see less killing here. But as soon as you decarboxylate this isomer, look what happens. Right? Oh, no way. That's huge.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:55

Dude, this is incredible.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:56

Okay, so this is the this is the carboxylated version, right? I want to see, I want to see. Oh right, pretty colors. Like spinal tapelling. Cool. Now, okay, so what this is again is this is so if you take if you take THCA and you add hydrogen fluoride across the double bond here, you're gonna make this nine fluoro HHCA. So rather than adding hydrogen across there to make HHCA, so this is these are the HHCA isomers, right? So that's just hydrogenated THCA, hydrogenated THCA, right? S isomers a little more active. So then now we extend this to this hydrofluorinated chemistry, and you can see even the hydrofluorinated one is not as active as like the S hydrogenated one. The S-hydrogenated one is really active. And we're finding very that it's very interesting that the S isomer is more active than the R isomer. That's scientifically very intriguing on why that would be. But when we look at this decarboxylated version, wow, look at that, right? So basically, what this says is that this compound right here, which is basically hydrofluorinated THC, is is not just keeping those cells in check, but actually killing all those cells. It's killing everything, right? It's just a big pricing pathosis, or is it just we have no idea. We all all they know is that whatever was in that whatever was in that syringe, it killed all the all the cells, right? So so here is now HHCV. So this is the nine-fluoro HHCV. So the difference between this one is this has got the five-carbon tail here, right? See the five-carbon tail, and here you have the three-carbon tail, and you can still see we're really active against these varieties of leukemia, which is really interesting because we we've been interested in in leukemia and cancer and and autoimmune disorders, and uh we currently have a manuscript where we're looking at a leukemic cell line called JERCAT cells, which are T cells that have gone leukemic. And again, what we find is very, very interesting that some of these compounds are active against it. But you could see this one is certainly the most active, more active than this one. And then this is the last, you know, HHCA as a mixture. You know, again, we're still seeing activity on this particular line of okay, so I'll stop sharing. So, yeah, so that's some exciting data. I mean, my whole research is all about taking the plant compounds and trying to find new and interesting compounds just because you know I could do the chemistry to make these compounds, and you know, it's just always kind of interesting to see that you know, these cannabinoids. So we don't know, does this our superactive compound here acting at the cannabinoid receptor? So we're gonna try to figure that out in the coming months and see if something that's acting all cells though. Well, and then the the real question is, is it super toxic to healthy cells? You know, I mean it's okay. It's great if we're if we're toxic to cancer cells, but we want to make sure that we're not toxic. And before Marcus said, can we dab it? I was like, Well, before we would do anything like that, we'd have to do all kinds of safety assessments, and this isn't for recreational purposes, right? The plants got that covered. This is for you know pharmaceutical development for medicines of the future.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:59

When do you go into that phase of uh that next phase then?

SPEAKER_03 1:48:02

Well, so what they do is at the National Cancer Institute, they'll run this test at 10 micromolar, and now they'll they've selected uh four of the six compounds that we sent to them, including the HHC, the 99H or 9F HHC. Uh, and they're gonna now um do it at five different doses. So, what they'll do is they'll take that 10 micromolar dose and they'll do a 10-fold dilution and see how it works at one micromolar, and then they'll dilute that and that'll be a hundred nanomolar, and then they'll dilute that and that'll be 10 nanomolar, and then they'll dilute that and it'll be one nanomolar. So they'll look to see where the activity, I mean, this is really super potent at 10 micromolar, but does it maintain its potency at those more diluted points concentrations? Right, it'd be taking like your Gatorade and just completely diluting it with water and finding out does it still taste like Gatorade at the end, you know. So you're you're you're establishing what would be known as uh IC50, which is the inhibitory concentration at fifty where 50% of the cells have been killed. You kind of call that your your so-called potency, and you see that these things were are gonna kill, and then at a certain area they're the kill is gonna drop off, and that's usually like an S-shaped curve. And right at the middle of that inflection point on that S-shaped curve is where your your IC50 is. So, yeah, these compounds might be super potent, but I think it it proves that you know, the receptors that you know the endocannabinoid system is is extremely important in the viability of cancer cells. I mean how How could it not? The the data speaks for itself, right? Yep. Well we've that's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:06

We've seen that already with the plant, but now that we can, you know, or you're on the pathway of specialized compounds derived from that can, you know, hyperactively go in that direction is huge because you know, we've been dealing with the anecdotal and I myself for 27 years now, right? So more science that backs it up but pushes that envelope. I mean, just that showing everything across the line is huge. So give us a time frame for finding out what efficacy is because people think science is a fast thing. And if you're at the tip of the spear here with something, it's gonna take some time. Just come.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:46

You just said you've been doing this for 27 years. How many people have died since people started researching cancer, right? These these institutes that are called the Institute of Cancer should be called the Institutes for the Cure of Cancer. I think just the name change alone would probably instill quicker motion because holy fuck, my whole life, my entire life, my family members have just been dying of cancer. It's just this mystery. It's nobody knows what it is, but it's like trillions have been seemingly spent to figure it out. And it's it's devastating.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:17

Super, super sad, Marcus, but I could also tell you, and I know a few of these cases myself of people who are multi-survivor of cancers due to advances in medicine and the way we treat, and not necessarily pharmaceuticals, but just you know, treating health on a whole uh basis, kind of like you know, the endocannabinoid system, along with nutrition. But you know, let's face it, some people rely on life-saving medicines to stay alive, and you know, I guess that's a a a larger debate on whether or not you know we should create you know medicines for people who would normally just either die or you know suffer from some medical condition or you know, whatever. But just to go back to your question, ATN, like a timeline. So this is the front end of drug discovery. I mean, this is how like drugs are discovered. I mean, they'll do a high throughput screen, well, they'll screen many thousands, if not millions, of compounds like this. Find an active, I mean, it's easy to see when you're looking at that data. It's like, yeah, it's a little active, yeah, it's a little active. Whoa! It's like it's like what you know, uh that's kind of like the Edison, you know, aha moment that he found the right material for an incandescent, you know, wick in his light bulb. I mean, it's like you you know a winner when you have a bunch of losers, right? It's easy to see something that works. So again, we'll look at this at a at a lower dose, but then ultimately it would need to be looked at from you know uh the metabolites. Are the metabolites toxic? You know, fluoride has got kind of like a notorious uh reputation of being bad. I mean, fluorine is also the the basis of these so-called forever chemicals, those are like perfluoroalkyl, you know, sulfonates and carboxylates like PFOA and PFOS are are completely um environmentally uh um non-benign. I mean they they they don't there's no known mechanism for um their degradation. And um, if you got a hamburger at McDonald's between uh what is it like about 1970 and like 1985, they used to coat McDonald's hamburger wrappers with this non-stick material similar to the stuff that they put on slacks and and carpets and shit like that, that was basically a stain resist. Uh, so you your food was actually touching it, it's in all of our bloods. These forever chemicals are gonna be around forever. But the distinction between the molecule I showed you is that there's just one fluorine atom on that molecule. And fluorine is a really unique atom. If you look at the periodic table, it's at the upper what northeast corner of the periodic, it's where main would be, right? If you're looking at the periodic table.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:34

You have to explain this science stuff to us here. It's a little more yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:39

So so fluorine is super interesting because it's small like hydrogen, right? Because it's up near the top of the periodic table. It's not a not a big atom, it's small, but it's got um it's the most electronegative element in on the periodic table. And so its electronegativity means it's gonna have very different electronic properties than the hydrogen. So if we compare HHC to nine fluoro HHC, they're gonna be very, very similar in the topology of the molecules, but that single change of that single atom is really a difference that uh again, maybe what we're seeing here in this this cancer screening. So it would need years of pharmaceutical development up to the point where a company would basically go to the FDA and say, we want to take this thing forward as a treatment for sickle cell disease, or as a treatment for leukemia, or as a treatment for diabetes, or a treatment for whatever. And then a company would basically have to convince the FDA that they have the right preclinical data, uh, which costs millions of dollars to basically assemble the data package that you need to bring to the FDA to convince them that you have a drug that is safe enough, and uh preliminary indications indicate that it's effective, that they should warrant clinical testing in humans. And only after that, clinical testing, which has three phases, right? Phase one clinical trials, phase two, phase three, double blind placebo. So the doctor doesn't know, the patient doesn't know, no one knows who's getting the medication, and they look to see is statistically the medication effective at controlling whatever the symptoms for the medical condition. On the other side of that, you get an FDA approved drug. Now you have a potentially life-saving drug that could generate billions of dollars in revenue, and that's probably like a 10-year process that's gonna take probably almost a billion dollars to get to that green light of we have an FDA-approved drug.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:06

It needs to be done though. Who are you doing? Who are you spearheading that with? Like you're doing all this work.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:11

We're trying to raise capital. So if anyone wants to send us a check. No, to be honest, uh, yeah, I mean, this is something that uh is gonna berth basically a pipeline for a cannabis pharmaceutical company. I mean, this is serious business. I mean, we filed patents on these things. I I can only talk about it publicly after we you know have filed patents and protected what we're looking for investors to basically help us raise the capital so we can do you know the the line to an investor, TJ. You'll love this. This is old school. You want to spend a million to make a billion?

SPEAKER_06 1:57:55

I would suggest not looking for those investors anywhere near churches. I don't think you'll find them.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:03

Well, it depends how many churches you have. I mean, just up here in Quebec, right? There's yeah, there's these little towns with churches in them.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:11

And who you're talking more closer to two billion dollars now to bring yeah, and ten cancer, as as Marcus was saying, cancer is a billion-dollar industry.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:21

I mean, there are high levels, there are alternatives.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:24

Come on, it's uh it's a $500 billion industry.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:28

Yes, almost.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:30

Dr. Brett Reynolds told me this years ago, and it blew my mind. He said, there's a drug that you take for brain tumors, it only helps 10% of people with brain tumors, it only reduces the tumor by 20%, it causes neuropathy in 90% of people who take it, 10 billion a year profit.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:49

One drug.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:51

So wow, you know, again, I I could just settle by just saying, look, you know, the plant has brought us so far already, right? The plant provides us all the goodness that we all love. The reason why we're on this call today, all together, we love hash and we love the plant. The plant can inspire chemists and researchers like me to try to make new things, not for recreational use, right? And it it's kind of complicated with the whole deschedule. Everyone says, Oh, research is gonna be real easy, research is gonna be real easy, but it's still a risky venture to stand in front of uh you know, venture capital type people, people who have money and means to say, look, we're gonna spend your money developing this drug all when we know that if we get one bad result in a tox test, we're done. And now you you've you know you've lost that investment. So that's why it's it kind of creates a situation. That's why it's important to have a pipeline of compounds. So if one compound dies, you have other compounds that could take its place.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:05

Go ahead and mark it. But but the system is set up that you just said it perfectly. You get one failure, you have one mistake. It's created to create corruption. Who the fuck is gonna spend 20 million dollars and then find out holy shit, all we have to do is lie about this one result and we can keep going. Otherwise, we're at a brick wall now. And this is what happens. These systems are I just think that the people we have on the planet are so smart that if we didn't have these demonic energies setting up these fucking systems for us, they would be like, dude, how the fuck are we waiting 30 years? 30 years is insane. 27 years.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:50

The test coming, Rick. The other side of this, the scary part to your point, is those that do have the money, you know, they're gonna that do have the money to do the research. If they're depending on what side of the story they're on, they're gonna spin a narrative that suits whatever their you know pathway is. And so great, there might be a uh inkling of truth or somebody spinning it something that's I mean, look, I mean, we got big tobacco, the big three, you know, that everybody's been talking about federal legalization. Well, if and when that occurs, it'll open up that Pandora's box.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:22

That's that's not gonna happen for a while. You know, everybody wants it, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:26

I didn't think we'd be this far this soon.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:28

So it's just already happened in Canada. We we got billions from the alcohol industry. Billions. I talked to a guy in the wine industry the other day. He says his industry has taken like a 40% hit in the last two years. Like they are doing 40% less business. This guy's a huge wine broker. He's like, for whatever reason, women are getting healthier, they're drinking less, young people don't want to drink. They're they're they've got access to mushrooms and psychedelics and cannabis and fucking vapes and all these other things that are just like taking up, you know, finally realized hangovers suck. I talk to people about hangovers. I never had one, but I talk to people all the time and I say, so what's a hangover like? And they're like, well, it's imagine getting the flu, like a really bad flu, and then like you wake up that morning with the flu. That's what a hangover is like. And I'm like, I'm talking to some of my buddies, and I'm like, so you do that anywhere from 20 to 50 times a year? You force your body to have the flu? Are you fucking insane?

SPEAKER_04 2:02:30

Are you insane? But that's the thing, is that it's the culture that we were I was raised on. I grew up in southern Louisiana. I was raised in New Orleans and outside in Cajun Country, and I was given beer at six months with my gumbo, right? Because it was such accepted norm that, you know, you grew up in. I happened to grow up before 18, became 21 in Louisiana. So I was in the bars at 16. So I had access to alcohol. And of course, the first time I binge drank, I ended up with the worst hangover, and then I had to go back to the bar to pick up my clothes for work because old dumbass decided to get up and do a strip tease, apparently, on the bar at 16. And then, yeah, I had to go to work, and that was my only work clothes. And there's nothing like waking up at three in the afternoon to a hangover, and then you have to work at an hour and a half, and you have to call the bar and ask for your work clothes. Yeah. Things that but you all it was all supported, it was all laughed at. It was all, oh, that's just young'uns being young ones. It's so insisted, you know, that in Louisiana, if I could reach a bar at Mardi Gras, they'll serve me.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:52

Well, I mean, listen, I guess. I didn't. I just avoided it because I thought it was retarded behavior. Sorry for using the R-word, but retarded. Um, yeah, just fucking insane. I just grew up in an incubator of alcoholics. I watched them all just drinking and sucking back alcohol, and people wanted to fight me because I didn't want to drink alcohol, and now my liver's just like my liver, I would not trade for anyone's liver. I got the fucking liver of a 20-year-old. Like, literally, like, no alcohol has been through my liver or kidney.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:37

I know who to call if I need a liver.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:39

Dude, I'm not giving it to you, but I will give you a piece. I'll give you a piece.

unknown 2:04:43

Right on.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:44

He'll break you off some, is what he's saying.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:46

I will break you off a little piece. That's all you need. We're all holographic beings.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:52

You know how you drink all day? You drink all day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:59

In the military, they have a special place for you to drink on base, and they won't tax you when you buy it, and they'll practically give it to you. And on every air military base, the Budweiser trucks are painted the same camo as the tanks on base. So get out in the field. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:19

These days, the the cannabis-infused drinks are well, you know, what I understand is really making a wave. Um, there's a huge demand for those, and the alcohol, the big alcohol companies are seeing it, you know, they're moving in on it. And you know, it is the you know, it's just like anything though. Like the the who the market is what drives the demand and this old money, and you know, they're just gonna pivot. You know, they have the resources to do it. We're seeing it with MSOs, you know, different brands and different markets. You know, here in California, it's pretty you know, painfully obvious watching some of these bigger brands that are moving in. You know, it's a tough time if you're not well established, you know, to uh you know, actually, you know, come into the market to penetrate, you know, to establish a new brand is tougher than ever. And you know, there's some things you need to do to distinguish yourself from other brands, and one of those is diversity and live SKUs, which is you know why cold chain is so relevant, you know. I mean, it's fascinating that your research, Mark, it seems to indicate, right, that I interpret that correctly, that it was decarbon it that really translated to the those results that went off the top.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:27

I mean, in in this particular case, I mean, I I think the same thing with you know THCA and THC, right? There's different, you know, um one's gonna get you high, the other is gonna not so much for the cannabinoid receptors. But THCA, and what we're finding out again, uh that the cannabinoid acids have their own pharmacology distinct from the decarboxylated cannabinoids, and really lends credence to full spectrum formulation that really has both decarboxylated and carboxylated cannabinoids. And really thinking about it more as like nutritional, like you know, I think we've talked about juicing before. I mean, some people, some people don't, but I mean, again, it's an easy way of introducing cannabinoid acids into your body as more of a dietary supplement, you know, um nutritional aspect of it, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:07:26

Well, if order for them to protect it, they need a carrier, and that's why CBD isn't as effective without even a trace amount of THC, like something like they need to be together for some reason.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:38

Well, TJ, you mentioned again just big beverage. I mean, we've talked about beverage before, but it really beverage, especially the people who are spending money or you know, you know, putting huge capital at risk and you know making contracts with like Circle K, right? To get in those, it's really gonna be affected by regulations. So ATN, give us uh give us a five-minute like uh what's the rescheduling update from your perspective? What's what's going on? I mean, two two aspects, right? The rescheduling from one to three, but also like who gets 280e and like how do you separate med from big two?

SPEAKER_04 2:08:20

So this one is a chapter still writing itself, doc.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:24

And I I wish it's a shit show, like a train wreck that becomes a shit show, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:08:29

Well, we're welcome to the shit show. You're all soaking in it. It's like the old advertising. Oh, well, you're soaking in it. You're we're we're in it. All right, well, where are we? Um, we're in no man's land, and no man's land is something where we've not all been together in a while. We've all been in the same shit show. However, now the shit show has changed. Um, new lights shinier, um, you know, uh, they're doing donuts in the street. Um, but the reality is, is everybody is looking to La Dea for further guidance. Uh DEA. Sorry, La Dea is the my my Mexican friend's terms for it.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:11

Um so the drug enforcement agency, folks.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:15

Correct. So they basically have moved their hearing until the end of June now. It was originally gonna be June 10th, it's now June 28th. So um we have applied, or at least Michael Crowitz from our group Veterans Action Council has applied to be in. Normal NCIA and others have all applied.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:34

So he filled out the application, basically, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:09:37

No, no, no, there's there's different things. There's to be in, there's you had to write a letter and it had to be by the 28th. So he he applied for testimony. Has testify within the actual yes. We're trying to get in because we're we're one of the prime experts since we're the also the treaty experts. So we're going in to kind of push for schedule five because we we're showing how uh we are harmed by schedule three. Um so we're pushing for schedule five. Of course, we're pushing in the end for descheduling, however, over-the-counter has been what I've been doing for almost three decades now.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:16

So but have you applied for a DEA license?

SPEAKER_04 2:10:20

No, I have not now. Um that is uh uh uh my choice. I'm going to wait and see because currently the situation is um untenable because uh to fill out the forms, um, and then once you apply, then you automatically open yourself to automatic DEA inspection. Two, you can only now deal with distributors and manufacturers that are already in their system, which means if none of my distributors in California belong to the DEA system, I can't buy from them anymore. Okay. What could possibly go wrong, right? What could possibly go wrong? Why why are you not jumping at this opportunity? Well, so this is a situation. It's it's we're looking at further guidance itself.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:17

No, it should have been to say on the application itself, you're emitting a felony, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:11:23

You're basically on top of that, yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:25

Turning in a form to the federal government saying that I've committed a felony. Here you go. Please give me a list.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:33

On top of the other things I have listed, right? Which makes it a bowl full of what? Right. I don't like I don't like nuts and bolts in my ice cream. It makes it hard to swallow. So um, this is a situation where we're going to uh California and other states are now reliant on their own guidance, and they can't get guidance until the DEA says something. So, what happens after the 60 day window? You know. Know through this entire time for your appliance within that six months, you can be inspected at any time. What does that mean? What does that look like? So, my inherent decades of distrust of the DEA, of them being on the opposite side of the fence, I don't feel just because they're now sitting on the fence, I feel the need to reach out to their hand. And so uh I've watched seminars and been part of legal seminars. Uh, what my company chooses to do will be what it my company chooses to do. I'm only speaking from my own personal choice and experience in the sense that I do not currently trust the system. Now, it doesn't mean that we all don't want to join. Everybody wants to that I know of. We all want to be legal, we all want to do things right. However, there is not a pathway there that we all see that would not turn into a it's already a tangled sky or pardon me, uh a tapestry that is all over the place. There's slubs and fatness all over the place. There's no clear picture.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:06

Well, and it's right when we get that clear picture picture.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:08

I think it's best to stand back and wait and see.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:12

It it it's ripe for sharks to come in and say, Oh, sign up with my law firm. We we have you know, trusted blah blah blah blah blah blah, twenty thousand dollars, you know, here like oh yeah, I'm getting them charged to navigate you through filling out the paperwork now. Well, but but here here here here's the thing. I and I don't know if this is true, 18. I don't know if you heard this. If you don't sign up, like if you don't fill out an application, you're out of compliance with the the rescheduling, right? And they can come after you then. So you're kind of damned if you do, you're damned if you don't, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:13:56

Well, hold on. Mark, Mark, hey guys, good to see you guys. And uh so like all right, this is this is an important thing you're saying. So so if we're hey Colin, what's up, buddy? Hey dude, good to see you, man.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:08

Um 80 years old.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:11

Oh yeah, dude, 80 years old, my mom, dude. Yeah, so epic. Yeah, good to see you.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:18

Palmer, much love.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:19

Yeah, man. Mama Palmer last night was was ripping. We went for a big walk today. I was I had my phone with me, and I didn't bring a charger with me because I'm traveling, and I it just I was like bloop, and it just died. So I was walking and I said, Oh, wait until I get back to the house. Here I am. Um, but dude, the the the the thing about it, because I've been going through this too. I have now an international lab, and there's all this stuff going on for me that I'm in you know getting on you know, getting inundated with and learning about and learning about the international markets and learning about what's going on with Schedule Three. And I've been advised to kind of pause. Like, do not do anything at all because there is no clear guidance. It's very spotty if if at best, from what I've been told.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:06

It just opens you up to more legal problems.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:10

Yeah, we just don't know enough.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:13

Thank God Sam wasn't a paranoid guy when he applied for his DEA license and had everyone telling him, oh, oh, they're gonna arrest you, you're gonna have this happen, you're gonna have that happen. None of what Sam would have has done would have happened without his DEA export license. He understood that. He knew it for a fact. And I will say this, Colm: you don't have to pause shit. Just come up here, brother. We got this shit going on lock. We are actively involved in federal international dealings. We can ship things to 19 different countries.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:48

Yeah. Well, no, I pretty soon I think like we're we're gonna be there too. But I I agree, I agree with you without Sam and someone taking that step. But here's the cut caveat to this. Sam wasn't operating in an existing business at the time, he was starting anew. And a different country, too. He was in a different country and in a different thing. And all these other kinds of things. Yeah, but I but mad respect, because Marcus is so right. Without him having having the canoe's to to step up and say, you know what, I'm gonna go do this because I truly believe in this. Yeah, yeah. I don't think any of us would have to do that.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:19

That's why everyone in Holland hated him. It's why they called him the police, right? It's why Ben Dronkers and many other people propagated the rumor that Sam was DEA or because he did something they couldn't, and that was really the bottom line of it. They fucking hated him for it.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:38

That's right. Something that we weren't and aren't doing, because I've been operating, you know, federally illegal for 27 years, and Colin, you know, uh speaks that that real truth. And until we have guidance where we feel it is safe that we our businesses will not be stolen out from under us or shut out, those are real concerns to all of my employees and their families, and that's a reality. And I can't I can't but that's a reality today.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:09

You're operating an illegal business without contacting the DEA, they can just hammer you the same way.

SPEAKER_04 2:17:15

You know, but if I apply, if I apply, I I'm gonna be automatically denied because I hold an M license and an A license. If I was just holding an M license, that's a totally different story. But I can't roll back the clock here in California and all of a sudden make myself completely medical. If I get guidance from my state for protections to go there, that opens up a different door, you know. But this is what I say is that we're all on a new area that we're all in together, and there is no solidness under our feet. We're all standing on sand except for Marcus.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:55

Well, let me tell you something about my experience. When cannabis became federally legal in Canada, everyone was the same way. We were like, oh, blah, this, that, and the other thing. All the people who had been breaking the law for years stayed paranoid for a long time. It wasn't until companies started getting into trouble. Oh, Can West or Can Trust, they forgot to license a whole room of their facility, like a 2,000 square foot room. They just grew an illegal garden at their legal facility. Well, all the people like us were like, oh my God, they're gonna get like 10 years, they're gonna lose their license, they're gonna get fined a million dollars, they got slapped on the hand, and I don't think they even paid their fine. So the thing that is changing is that it'll never be the way it was. And when legal companies are doing business and get like in trouble, they don't go to jail. But they don't have a legal guidance. You're so right.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:48

We have legal guidance that we do not have yet. And once we have that legal guidance, as I stated earlier, Marcus, we all want to be there, we just want the correct pathway there. And currently, that's not how life works.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:02

I know that's not how life works. You will not get the correct pathway. It just won't be in Canada.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:07

You're parallel, our parallel in the United States.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:12

So we're we'll no, but you're chasing the the industry is going to belong to the US. And currently the industry is in Canada. We are doing all the export. I think Canada exported over 150,000 pounds of flour last year to 19 different countries, just to give you an idea. Portugal is also doing that. So we export to Portugal. Where do you think they get their flour? And they export to Canada, vice versa. Well, we don't allow we don't allow we don't allow countries to import flour and to Canada. And the reason that is, is because our industry is protected through regulatory framework. We're not gonna spend billions of dollars building an industry so some asshole can go grow a thousand hectares in Colombia and send it all to Canada for three cents a grand. So we have uh safety uh that have been that that have regulatory frameworks that have been put into place in Canada that don't allow that. Big guardrails. Um it's I mean it protects the industry.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:14

Yeah, no, that's really cool. Now, one thing, you know, I by way of the lab that I have, I'm now a vaccine, I'm a part of a DEA license, one of the six here in the United States. And um I find it really interesting that none of those licensed, to your point, Marcus, are able to import back in um, you know, due to the same exact thing. So, you know, it's it's um it's really interesting. And I think that we have a long way to go. The one caveat I keep bringing in my head is that the medical versus recreational licenses in the United States and and Canada, and correct me if I'm wrong, Marcus, they came from a medical forward and then moved into recreational, right? Is that correct?

SPEAKER_06 2:20:57

Yeah, just like everyone, I've watched it happen in all the federal places. Everyone uses medical as their shield, and the minute rec comes in, medical goes right into the garbage can, and now everyone is a recreational seller. And there's multiple reasons for that. Um, obviously, the business of medical is very difficult. It's a whole different scenario. You're dealing with people who are sick, who this is medicine, versus people who are buying your shit like at a gas station or whatever. Like it's just they're not the same clientele. And most people who are in the herb industry do not have the know-how, the compassion, the empathy that people like Etienne have to in order to care for um patients. And so they've just like, I don't want to deal with these people anymore. I just want to deal with recreational users. And the worst case scenario, they'll say it didn't taste good, but I won't have to listen uh to about their life story about why it wasn't good for them and how this has affected them and all. It's heavy, man. Like what Etienne does is heavy, bro. Like, I I could not even imagine how many people Etienne has known over the 30 years that have passed away that shopped at the the Berkeley Patients groups. It must be in the hundreds, it could be in the thousands, which is sickening when you think about it. And I remember Hillary going through the same thing, even though she didn't run the Compassion Club for near as long as Etienne. She was crushed. And I was crushed. I got to know these people. It was horrific. Every day you go in and be like, oh, so-and-so died on the streets. It's like, holy shit, bro, this is really this is more serious than buying a vape pan at the gas station. So it's a crazy dichotomy that we have in the cannabis industry where we have this uh community, we have this medical, we have this industry. There's so many different things that are all thrown into the uh into the pool. It's really amazing that we can make sense of all of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:51

Yeah, no, it's it is. It's it's interesting. And I I just see I see a you know, we have a such a long path to go for the for medical to get its day, you know, the idea of that, right? Like how does that bake into society and work in all the facets that all the other things that we you know consider medicine to work, you know? Um, and I think that that's I you know, I I I'm really excited for that. You know, how do we bake into the fabric of people's lives? And yeah, I want to bring them terps, but also want to bring them therapy, you know, and I think that's that's the most important thing, you know, that I saw working with close family members and others, and I'm sure ATN you can chime in here, like watching someone go from a hundred percent to you know, to to their deathbed is a really tough process. And you're you're not quite sure how to walk them down that line. Um and every patient is different, you know, and it it's a it's a journey for them and yourself, and you don't realize it until they stop coming to you and you're like, huh, uh, where'd Sally go? You know?

SPEAKER_04 2:23:57

Or their parent or their loved one comes up to you and finds you on the side and says, Hey, I just want to let you know. That's how I find out more than anything, is usually from a loved one who is just usually appreciative, who comes and says, Hey, yeah, you gave me insert time here more with the person I loved. And you know, um it's hard not to cry during this time because it's I cannot tell you how, as you stated, each one is personal and yeah, thousands. Thousands.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:34

Yeah. So kudos to you, man. You know, kudos to you. I've I've had a few.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:41

Kudos to you and everybody else. We all take the same risk. We all have the belief we're just all trying to make a better place for people, and each one is doing what we can in our own way. So thank you. I appreciate it. It's hard to accept. Um, it's just I this isn't uh something I accepted as somebody who is ashamed of killing women, men, and children over oil. That's what I did at 21. So I have great shame over that. I didn't bring freedom to Kuwait and Iraq, you know, and back in 1991. So, you know, I have a great deal of guilt over the body parts I had to eat next to that I created, right? So when you've created the worst and you've seen the worst that man can do to each other, um, as I always say, nothing teaches you uh peace like war.

SPEAKER_06 2:25:42

Well said, Who sent you over there, who was who was the president when you went over?

SPEAKER_04 2:25:48

Oh, it was my dumbass who volunteered. Oh, it was George Bush. George Bush Sr. I got I got gore because I was with the West Virginia National Guard. He was then the governor, so he came and gave a whole speech on ye boys are going off and doing the good butt and blah blah blah blah blah. And I tried to, you know, I tried to be a good soldier and I was. I did everything right, but uh man, when I got over there and found out firsthand from the locals what was really going on and how much I was lied to, and how much of a sucker I felt like because I wasn't um educated enough to realize what I was doing, uh, nor had I developed as an you know a male yet to understand what I was going through. So going through those series of traumas really and almost dying from it made me realize that I had to step outside of my role in life and help others. And I've spent my life doing so and it's made my life better. But I still live with the guilt of those deaths more so than I feel any remorse over the I mean, I don't get me wrong, I feel remorse of everybody who's died here, but at the same time, those were peaceful deaths I helped bring along out of love and respect, not to tear them apart because of somebody told me to. I know that's heavy, but that's what I live with. And that's what I'll die with.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:21

Well, welcome home, brother. And uh Love you. You know, it love you too, man. And and your story is is much like many, and you know, you're turning it around in a way that's very personal, and that's that's an amazing journey to be on, man. So you know, much love, man.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:41

You all helped put me on that path, and seeing all these wonderful people whose lives were affected by it drove me, right? It's the same thing that drives each one of you. Yes, you can do great things from it, but you've also seen this do great things to people that drive you to do it. Marcus sees what the reaction to what he has created does, and it drives him to further better himself, make better business decisions, make better components, make better everything, right? Because that matters, that quality matters. Colin, it matters in your science. You can't buy some half-ass science equipment and expect to you know get you know the results you expect. You have to invest in that time and energy on top of that, then the ethics involved, then which is I think more important than the equipment, you know, those ethics that you have been instilled. So thank you, Mama Palmer, uh, for instilling all these great things in this guy, because uh those are things that are invaluable in life that made TJ do what he does, that made Rustin do what he does, that make Mark so curious. He's like, I'm not gonna settle for this. Let's look at new pathways that I may not be able to benefit from, but the future and future generations can, right? Because that's what happens when you start and you create something, you will not necessarily see the end of that creation, you know. And same thing for what I create, I will eventually be dead, but BPG will carry on, and what we started will continue, you know. And that is priceless because that means that we've done something right along the way that rings throughout generations, right? Because that's Marcus is gonna have something to pass on to his kids now. Whether his kids will want to pick it up or not, you know, the same thing with you, Colin. You're creating something that you know your your children could benefit from, but will they be as passionate or care about it as much as maybe who knows?

SPEAKER_01 2:29:54

I mean, I I hope I can. Yeah, I mean, that's kinda that's kind of it. And and most of my friends that have older children, um, most of them are not interested in the same subject matters. Like they're like, that's not cool because dad does it, or whatever. But like I think if I can influence them and I'm lucky enough for them to to be in as excited about this subject matter as I am, then I'll be blessed. You know what I mean? I'd love for that to happen, but by no means is it a you know a prerequisite for for them at all. It's really about what they want and what they tend to be interested in, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:35

Um contribute to that, because I think that I'm a family man as well. You know, I have two children, and you know, also you know, my historical, you know, from from my my grandfather and my dad, they were both in the military, you know. Um, my grandfather was a POW, you know, during uh you know, his some of his service, and you know, my father did 25 years in the Navy, so I was a dependent, you know, I grew up with the service as part of my life, and you know, so thank you for your service as well. Um, because you know, I definitely you know hear a lot of those stories, and there's a lot of a lot of great humans that come back, and I know a number of them who suffer from PTSD and you know things of that nature, and so you know, there's uh you know different walks that we all take in life, and but that doesn't also become your legacy, you know. And and you talk about the things that we are doing with our time, the choices that we do make is a part of how we create balance and fulfillment in our lives, and for us to have you know the ability to do something that we love, like cannabis, is a real gift, you know. And for me, like I've adopted a philosophy where you know I it's not like in sons, you know, or business. You know, I'm fortunate to have you know business partners, you know, like Rustin, where you know we do act like family, you know, that it's not just uh you know a strict business arrangement, you know, kind of relationship. Because when you're in a business with somebody, you know, it's like a marriage, you know, it's like being in a band, right? And you you go get on a stage and you expect you know the your ensemble to perform and be all in unison on the same note. Because if you if somebody's off, I mean you affects your whole organization and and business is that mindset. And it comes with, you know, if you're fortunate enough to have your children, you know, which for me I actually am. You know, my my daughter's 26, you know, my son's 21. And you know, more my son, you know, my daughter has her special talents, and you know, I think there's room as we grow in our organization where she's finding her own, you know, way that um she'll be special. And she has been a major contributor already with kind of the nature of some of the stuff she's done with us behind the scenes. But interestingly enough, my son, you know, is probably freeze-dried more cannabis than any other 21-year-old that I'm aware of. I mean, uh, he's certainly um, you know, maybe you know in the world, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:32:53

Because he's I love that man, that's awesome. That's that's so cool, you know, because you get to share, and then he's younger, so he has a totally different perspective, right? So rats that's great.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:05

He got the tutelage under a really premier hash maker. In fact, on episode one that we did with you know, Marcus here, we had two special guests with Harrison, you know, um, hash engineer and also Eric Ward, you know, Ward on the street. And you know, Harrison was like under Eric Ward's tutelage. So there was this passing of this torch, and then my son got to tutelage under Harrison. And so, like, he really took on this, you know, passion for hashing. You know, we call him Hashton because his name's Ashton, you know, so like um fraction with Hashton, you know, and it's a fun, you know, experience to have him so passionate about cannabis. And, you know, even for me as the resonator, he worked in the warehouse when he was, you know, old enough to start working, um, assembling, you know, putting you know parts together and and and fulfillment out of the warehouse. He was our our main guy for years. And then when he was kind of behind the scenes, he was already doing you know, because we do R and D work. And so he was participating um and learning about the process and hearing me on my pitch and just understanding and asking questions because he's so curious. And it just really led to like where, you know, as we expanded as a business with Resonator, like we started to have to, you know, take and run our equipment inside of uh, you know, uh we we're building a brand because we're like trying to showcase because when you're like trying to do something new, you know, just saying, hey, follow me. I I know the way, you know, I'm chopping the wood, you know, I'm going over to this, you know, make shortcut. You know, everybody takes the well-traveled path. And so we're the quintessential, like chopping our own way through the forest right now. And for him to have kind of been there the whole way, it's really special, man. Like he gets up every day and he fills our freeze dryer, he does the cryo trimming, and he's he's probably producing about 15 pounds of freeze-dried flour every day going into our new brand.

SPEAKER_05 2:34:53

Dude, he um just the other day, me and uh me and him loaded uh 50 kilos of bubble hash into a freeze dryer. It might be a record. I'm not sure. We've got these big commercial freeze dryers, and um, so that that was kind of fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:35:07

Anyone who's ever loaded 50 kilograms of bubble hash in a freeze dryer at one load?

SPEAKER_08 2:35:12

Uh close for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:35:15

Yeah. I've got a freeze dryer that fits just under just under 50 kgs. Okay. Yeah, I I ordered it custom made from Freeze Dry Co. Who's the company that makes all of the freeze dryers for harvest right?

SPEAKER_04 2:35:31

So I have a question. Earlier, somebody in chat actually asked, is if I don't have a freeze dryer and I'm at home, what would you guys suggest that I do to dry my hash? Just throw it away. You're fucked. No, I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:49

You know, air dry it, brother. You gotta freeze it, plain it.

SPEAKER_04 2:35:53

Well, you know, what temperatures and humidities matter here, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:35:58

Well, look, I I mean, shoot, it's old school, right? Because that sounds like a home user. So, I mean, you get some cardboard, you know, a pizza box, and it's probably the best thing. And you put your hash in there. If you want to get froggy, you could get a like a heat, like a warming plate that you put under seedlings, and maybe to keep it warm. But you know, you also want to control that, you know. You just want it to dry slowly and wick. So that's probably the simplest pathway, or you can get like a hash back. There's some homemade tech out there, and you can 3D print some things, like there's very affordable ways to get into it and do it. So there's you know, we're very creative and innovative ways that you know that you can get it done. Now, these days, freeze dryers are becoming more affordable than ever. You know, Marcus, you just gave a shout-out, but you know, I guess I'll shamelessly do the same because we just launched our new high life freeze dryer line that's for hash and bud that has vapor pressure control and programming for hash. So, you know, I mean, they're they're you know, we're they're very affordable and um competitive and special in the terms of some of the features that um the industry really hasn't seen. So we're excited, you know, bringing that to market. So I mean that's something everybody can really look forward to because we engineered them for hash and for freeze-drying cannabis for a flower.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:08

Yeah, and to kind of double down on that for you, man, like I don't own one yet, but I will tell you everybody out here, I'm gonna own four of them very soon. And um, they have all the features that I've been looking for out of lab lab concos and um the functionalities of some of these home user ones like the harvest right, so it it brings the usability and the complexity that I need on the custom recipes that I'm looking for to be able to change, let's say you know, the pressure during a stage that matches with the maybe the temperature of the of the actual you know plate. You know?

SPEAKER_00 2:37:48

So almost the sublimation curve. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:51

Correct. So you can actually hit target ranges that you're actually intentionally trying to hit rather than put pressing start, as I say, on a preset and letting you know someone else's pre-made algorithm do it for you. Um I think most of us can agree that it's it's always slightly undesirable. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:38:15

I would say also that pressure is going to increase in your freeze dryer based on how much material you put in it. And a lot of people aren't paying attention to that. You you put too much material in, you're increasing the pressure, obviously, that's at the end of the vessel.

SPEAKER_05 2:38:31

Yeah, the the material and then how much how fast you're ramping the heat, right? So the faster you ramp your heat, the more sublimation that you're creating. And um, you know, when you start messing with these scientific um freeze dryers, like and you're playing with vapor pressure control, um, you know, the equipment, it becomes like if you ramp too fast, you can, you know, go into like a burst mode, if you will, where you created so much sublimation in your vessel that it goes above 2M bar and you can have cellular collapse. So, like you're saying, Colin, is being able to like target these things and like learn what's cutting in.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:05

Yeah, ripping too early is another one, you know, staying at a low, you know, you know, low mTOR and making sure that that window is correct for the mTOR when it does actually sublimate and pool, because there is there's techniques that people can learn about you know, and you're not actually adding much heat. You don't need to. You're not it's not that's not the point. It's not getting it in and out quickly, that doesn't really matter because you're keeping in a in a locked state. And then that's you know control is critical, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:39:34

So you can literally draw your own recipe, but you know, having the right popcorn button is something that you know we actually put a lot of time and energy into as well. So we're offering you know both those um functions and features come with the you know the programming in our units. So that's exciting, man. Not to mention the quality and you know, so many things that we get to put our name on it to say that hey, this is something that we're proud of that we stand behind. And it took years to kind of develop that, you know, and to be able to offer that and scale it to any size operation with the the brand partnerships that we have, you know, is something that we're really excited because we're really passionate about freeze drying. And I mean that really comes down to cold chain. I mean, there's so much, you know, cold chain preservation that's directly correlated to the final, you know, to having something stabilized, you know, something that's shelf stable, right? That's actually, you know, now you can go another many different pathways. I mean, the the nature of what you can do with SIFT is really what's so exciting for us. It's kind of this new frontier. I mean, look at the explosion of static, you know, that's you know, happened. You know, we've been waiting for stat, you know, something like static, which just has its own use case. I mean, but it's not the end all, it's just a new skew, right? It doesn't mean that everything else goes away. And you know, there's different pathways to achieve similar results with different types of equipment, and people are innovating every day. So I'm excited watching that happen as a equipment manufacturer and also getting the opportunity to take you know what we do to market and you know have people really respond to it has been a unique journey for us. I mean, that's the journey we're on now, and um, you know, sharing it with the world and you know, wish us luck, right? Because it's an uphill battle. I think everybody here, you know, who owns a business or anybody who's watching out there who owns a business, you know, we're all we're all fighting for our lives, right? We're always trying to, what's the next thing for our business that's gonna elevate us, right? And you know, if you ever get relaxed, you know, you're probably doing it wrong, right? So you gotta be focused and and hungry, and you gotta, you know, be smart because you can't afford to mess up. I mean, if you stub your toes, you know, okay, some people have you know the wherewithal on the team and they can recover, but there's a lot of businesses out there that are, you know, you can there's like equipment graveyards, you know, to get stuff, you know, no matter what you want. And a lot of them are trash freeze dryers, unfortunately. And that's another reason that we're so passionate about what we are doing, because we're you know, is we're creating equipment that had that's engineered for cannabis, you know, from the ground up, like with our own engineering team, with our own fabricators, you know, you stateside, you know, with all of our resonators, right? You including our you know, learning to do this with plastic, doing it with stainless, and literally moment to moment changing things till you you know get something that's almost perfect. And you know, that's what you know we've been at with implementing liquid nitrogen into our cryogenic sifting machine and the nature of how we're taking that tech. And you know, really there's a couple primary uses that you know, for me this always comes back to, which is what I think the whole cold chain conversation really boils down to. And it's like fresh frozen, you know, people are harvesting their their weed, they're growing it at scale, they often don't have a harvest plan. They don't have, oh, it's it's October and nobody thought about dry space, or they undervalued or underanticipated how much dry space they're gonna need, you know. And like what if you are doing fresh frozen? Well, have your you know, connexes ready and your backup power, and you have to have a harvest plan. And you know, if fresh frozen is increasingly becoming a larger piece of the pie, then you really need to be cold chain conscious, all right. And then great, you got you did it, you got it frozen, you implemented unique tools and techniques in your team, and you know, because we all have a window when it comes to harvest. I mean, this is so deep, you know, the different levels, because everybody knows now we're we're doing resin farming, right? And you know, as and and what about when you grow something for you know that was supposed to wash well, you know, but doesn't, you know, and you go to hydro you go to hydrocarbon and it is not worth processing because it didn't yield well, and now you're stuck with all this fresh frozen, like what do I do? And I mean, that's what's so cool about smokable flour because that's an incredibly uh great, you know, um smoke, you know, the smooth smoke because that's something that's cool about free-stried flowers, how smooth the smoke is. So, you know, I'm I mean, I'm rambling to kind of just bring it all back to like look, cold chain for us is the future, and like what we're doing with liquid nitrogen is something that's like really never been done, and we're seeing results in the field that you know that's why we're here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:12

We're trying to tell the TJ, you know, I I had a I had a homie of mine yesterday who's an incredible, super talented BHO extractor. And he was like, I was trying to explain, I was like, Man, you really need to talk to TJ. You know, you should be packing your socks with with full you know heads. Why are you even bringing plant material to the table? And he was like, Man, that just sounds like so much work. Um, so why don't you talk about the the process a little bit? Because it seems like there's a lot of misinformation out there, just in general, from what I heard, just talking to my homie about it. And he's super talented, really dialed, and was just it seemed like he had it sort of backwards. And um I told him, I was like, look, there's a machine that you've developed that's for breaking everything down, and it can go right into the socks, and it's not that much, not as much labor as you think. And so why don't you that would be cool if you could kind of talk talk us through that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:45:08

Yeah, I want to I want to speak to one thing you said there, Colin, because um it's interesting when you're like just packed a sock full of heads. Um that's kind of what created, you know, some of the problems that I think people were experiencing early on when they were doing cystahydrocarbon, is they were using like a 200 or 150 micron screen and um it it was causing some channeling, right? Um so we've you know we've now got 400 and 600 micron screens that we use. So it's not full heads, it's you know, it's got some plant material in there, which kind of helps it um through the extraction process so that we're not having channeling.

SPEAKER_06 2:45:41

Um if you use different columns and you create vivots inside the columns, you eliminate channeling because it creates cavitation. So when the gas goes in and it hits these little bumps all along the side, they blast back as bubbles, so much so that if you had the lid off, it would look like the material was being stirred. I'm amazed that this has not picked up to the BHO community. Because apparently the BHO community already they already know everything, so they can't learn anything, apparently, because this has been knowledge that was shared 15 years ago at least.

SPEAKER_01 2:46:20

We know it all, then here we are.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:23

You make a really incredible point because like the reality is like if it was simple, everybody'd be doing it, right? And there has been a lot of stumbling along the way, and you know, we have you know had to figure things out, and there hasn't been a playbook to go by, and it's RD, it's trial and error.

SPEAKER_06 2:46:38

Well, sometimes when it's so simple, TJ, nobody gets it. In fact, that's why Sam was the only guy to static sift for like 40 years. People thought they could figure it out, but nobody figured it out until it was really like shared. Once people started sharing key things, then suddenly there were these revelations and people like, I figured it out. It's like, oh, kinda. I mean, sort of walked you along and got you there. But 35 years the guy was static sifting with his hand, and no fucking one in the world knew.

SPEAKER_00 2:47:09

At least it doesn't get much simpler than that. Other industries that you know things are similar that you know, but they need key changes were to transfer over. I mean, you can't just you know take something that's made for the wine industry and all of a sudden it works for cannabis, you know. Right. I mean, there are some translations, but often need modifications, right? So that's the that's the whole, you know, you gotta be cognizant of of you know what what that's looking like for you.

SPEAKER_06 2:47:34

Well, I think the reality is there's very few people doing actual RDs. There's very few people actually innovating and creating new things. There's tons of people that think they are, but they're suffering from dunning Kruger. They think they're in the top 80%, but they're in the bottom 15%. And this is just the reality of life. You know, most of us we all suffer from Dunning Kruger in certain ways. You know what I mean? Like it's a natural thing to kind of have a little extra confidence in yourself than maybe is required.

SPEAKER_00 2:48:05

Well, this is like I think I want to get back to the core of like because that we danced right around it, right? But it wasn't as simple as, hey, let's try something. Like we had to go deep into RD land, and you know, we actually were pretty fortunate to do a lot of this with the likes of Eric Ward. You know, we had on-site testing and we were, you know, let's do let we went, we went deep. We got five different strains. We did, you know, over a thousand pounds of each strain. Um, so we and we had control socks, you know, aligned up. We literally took the same bio and we were doing five-minute increments at different temperatures, um, you know, and and collecting every five minutes so we could tell how much cannabinoids were coming off of the you know, the raw material, you know, per by minute by the calculation, all the way up to like where's the sweet spot? And we could clearly see this the scale where the concentration would go up, you know, exponentially for like the first 10 minutes, and then into the you know, 20 minutes was the sweet spot, and then it kind of started to go down. And it's a is that five minutes worth that extra little bit that you're getting at scale? And even like cluing into just what's the sweet spot for you know the the general like SOP because you know there's such a variance with biomass as much as 15% across the board that you know you still like I always say it's like a it's like a dartboard, you know. We're not you know, bullseyes are great, they happen, but you know, we want to just hit the dartboard. If you're not doing that, then you're definitely out of the range because bio is gonna be significantly different from the same strain from one garden to the next, from indoor to outdoor. You know, how was the material preserved? You know, and so there's a key component of when we're like when you say, okay, why is this this seems harder, right? Like right now, we have a client that, you know, it's you know, their goal for like even Eric, like, you know, it's not even like what we're trying to do for people, it's like what we've done. You know, we're literally taking somebody, you know, they're at capacity, what their equipment can do, and they're having to run double shifts to keep up with their demand. And we come in and all we introduce is the original resonator into the mix. Okay, so do what you were doing previously. We're just gonna add, you know, we're gonna biomass reduce it with liquid nitrogen. Now we want to do, you know, that's where our cryogenic hammer mill is um um is ideal because you want to create the optimum particle size so we can expose the trichomes, so we can actually collect the trichomes because we want to get, I mean, trichomes live up to 500 micron. You know, let's let's get them all, right? And that's where we're able to kind of target getting the most of out of the plant, like and disposing of the spent because we've now extracted all the primary cannabinoids, and so we're when we're putting sift in a column, you know, it's you know, with the 20% on average extraction, right? 100 pounds will turn into 20 pounds of sift. You know, people are putting on average, you know, 10 to 15 pounds of bio in their columns. So you're effectively gonna, you know, put it it would take you like seven columns or so at 14 pounds to equate to what one you know uh you know, column six columns, right? So when you start doing that math and you think now you got to run more solvent, right? There's still a ratio of available THT, how much solvent you want to have come in contact. So you actually use more solvent per column. But if you do the math, you're actually gonna basically get there twice as fast with half the gas. So you tell me, right? If and we ran all the math, and it's you know, we put a white paper out on the subject, right? So it's about 85% more efficient. So when you're talking to your buddy and he's like, That seems hard, it's like, yeah, sure. But wasn't it hard to learn how to do hydrocarbon to begin with? And so, wouldn't you want to know if you can make a simple tweak in your system and increase your efficiency? Like twice, you're gonna do double the throughput, right? Why wouldn't totally dude? You would. And so it's we have to prove it, you know. Why isn't it getting adopted? Because there's so much. I mean, it is those who are adopting it are getting the benefit, you know. But that's I mean, it's you know, the stainless steel resonator is not cheap, you know, it's a high quality cutting-edge piece of equipment that you know it's has a popcorn button, you know, you just push start and it runs. You don't have to manually control all the things, and the use of liquid nitrogen and the way we're able to actually collect those tricombs is really special because we're able to fraction the sift into multiple categories so we can actually drive into a solventless lane and then pivot and then do everything we just said into the hydrocarbon lane. And so, not to mention the trimming, right? So, I mean, this three-in-one machine, you know, only one use case in itself justifies what its function does, you know. And this is kind of part of where the transition that we've made recently from CO2, you know, with our classic plastic units, we can't use nitrogen, you know, they crack the carpet off. Stainless allows us to make that jump, and that's been something only 17 minutes away from us.

SPEAKER_02 2:52:52

Come on, let's go either little hop to food because I'm back here. Whatever you want to jump. Happy birthday, Mama Palmer. Happy birthday, Mama Palmer.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:01

They can hear you here.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:02

Well, I really wanted to go to the full, but can happen.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:06

Hold on, I think everyone can hear you here.

SPEAKER_09 2:53:09

Happy birthday to you! Happy birthday, Mama Palmer.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:23

So everyone on Hash Church wants to wish you a happy happy birthday. We sure do, we sure do. Thank you so much, Mama.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:34

Thank you for raising a great way.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:37

Thank you. Appreciate it. Not everybody gets to join the club that I'm in, so I'm happy.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:45

She made it to 80, boys. Congratulations, incredible. Well done, uh winning.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:52

Hey, it's 2026. Here's the 80 more.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:59

Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:02

Well, I'm gonna take this woman out. I love you all very much. TJ, keep telling the world about this, and uh Marcus, thank you so much as always. Love you all, see you next week. And uh Dr. Mark, Rustin, talk to you soon, brother. Later gone. Peace, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:22

Yeah, yeah. Mama energy, man. We all, you know, those of us who still have our mothers in our lives, you know, be grateful. Be grateful for sure. Those who don't, still be just as grateful for what you had.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:37

Dude, I have my mom in my life, and I haven't spoken to her in two years about that.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:43

You need to call her. You need to call your mom. Even if you don't have any relationship with her, call her, dude.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:49

If all if only it were that easy. If it were only that easy, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:54:53

I just um I just lost my mom this last year to cancer. She had um colon cancer and brain cancer, and um, you know, I wish looking back that I had uh spent more time I've been so busy with work, um, just to even reach out and call her more often because she lives in Utah. But um so yeah, call call your mom, Mark, figure it out if you can. I get it. Family drama's tough.

SPEAKER_06 2:55:15

Yeah, it's a tough one. I'm sorry to hear about your mom, brother. I definitely uh had that happen with my dad, and it's soft for sure, and you know it's just uh yeah, it's just how to move forward, you know? How to move forward. It's unfortunate that the world has divided us so strongly.

SPEAKER_05 2:55:34

But um that's yeah, it's kind of cool to see what you're doing, Mark. Um in that lane. Um you know, all that data you were showing earlier. It's that's exciting stuff, man.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:44

Oh, thanks, man. It's amazing. Yeah, life changing.

SPEAKER_04 2:55:53

Well eventually, yeah. I mean, if they'll to point out as efficacious as some of that data points out, that's uh you know that's uh yeah that's that's pretty much groundbreaking stuff that you know could lead to some pretty amazing um you know developments on top of you know the other stuff you can't talk to us about that's in R D right now right so you know yeah well I mean great work Dr. Mark is what we're saying.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:22

We've well thank you thank you AC and thank you thank you thank you can you guys hear me yeah yeah okay um yeah I mean a lot of medicines get developed from natural products so that's not you know unique to cannabis or you know a lot of you know drugs that are life saving drugs were developed from you know natural products that are already out there so cannabis as we know is just this miracle plant that as you know you peeled back the onion and you you know Michelin discovered the endocannabinoid signaling system which creates you know again just opportunities for drug discovery well anecdotal elements have saved millions of lives even in itself you know so even with science backed it's like you know I mean there's a a pathway that starts from you know discovery man I bet you it sounds like you had kind of a cool that looked like a Eureka moment on that slide man that was cool yeah yeah I mean that's the aha moment of invention oh god we did something useful so where were you when that happened that had to be a significant little spark so where were you I was just sitting in my office you know I I got the email that you know we had some data come in and as I was looking at the data I I I hadn't been familiar with the data I I could clearly see as I went from one compound to the next that this compound was different than everything else you know and I I had to like go to their website and this is again part of uh again paid by our tax dollar the National Cancer Institute which is part of the NIH uh and it funds this uh thing called the developmental therapeutics program the DTP and the DTP is basically a warehouse for all kinds of data for researchers and pharmaceutical companies to look at you know different um different cancers and different um uh compounds that are active and there's a compare tool so you we can take my the data on my compounds and compare it to existing cancer chemotherapeutics and see how we compare. And yeah I didn't see when I looked at the compare tool anything that was as broad spectrum as as this in terms of being effective at killing all those different cancers usually there's a selectivity that you see but I think again we need to verify this at lower dose and so has has nobody ever done that before like no one's ever they oh yeah I mean this is done all the time with different different compounds and different natural products this specific compound that you're this specific compound no I mean this is why that's why he patented it he he did it yeah it's making sense he's a proud papa well I think the reason why the reason why you patented is is to protect the intellectual property so we can go to an investor and say look we want you to invest you know 20 30 40 million dollars of your money or your your funds money to develop this into a FDA approved drug and and that's not a light lift that's a very heavy lift and so in order to make sure that you have exclusive rights to to that active ingredient um you you need to do that so like the federal government has the patent on uh THC yeah well it's important so what the fed what the federal government's patent was wasn't a composition of matter right it was a end use utility as neuroprotective properties and you know that was again probably shut something that should have led to the unwinding of schedule one back then because one yes right the US PTO Department of Commerce evaluated the claims in the patent the claims in the patent were basically validated saying yes you're demonstrating neuroprotective activity by this and such data and now what's really exciting and this just came out this week there's a recent study that showed that C B D and the other cannabinoids aren't just neuroprotective by acting as an antioxidant to quench reactive oxygenated species. There's actually a genetic signal that C B D causes to upregulate a protein or an enzyme that then reduces reactive oxygenated species. So we're beginning to understand a little bit more about that biochemical pathway. But my point is is that when that patent was first issued I think in 2003 it should have been the end of schedule one right there because there's the government saying that there's utility to these compounds medical utility in that they have neuroprotective properties so if they have neuroprotective properties how could the plant from which they're derived be on schedule one which by definition is no known known accepted medical value. That's the key word in the legislation right ATN it's no accepted medical value. So what's formerly known as yeah yeah what's accepted medical value is only a FDA approved drug but where that becomes unthreaded is that epidilex and marinol are FDA approved so if if those two drugs are FDA approved how could the plant from which they're derived be schedule one which by definition has not no longer in the world as long as your C BD plants have low THC they're legal in the world on top of that growing your own medical is is legal too and now the whole the whole conundrum of the schedule three rescheduling which again I think we've discussed if that gets veterans access if it gets sick it won't get veterans access. That's why we're arguing in the DEA hearing we will not get access through schedule okay we'll not get access but if if schedule three is the is the necessary step to descheduling which I think we all agree right descheduler bus that's where we're on our way to ultimately descheduling not rescheduling but I I don't know how do they segregate the medical which is going to have the 280e you know benefits from the adult they go that the recommendation there's no pathway there currently by the international treaty that's why Michael and our team are working with other world leaders on rewriting the treaty in 2030.

SPEAKER_04 3:03:59

So nothing is happening and this is what we're building momentum to with the countries and why we go each year is we're building momentum because currently there's three things three plants have to be removed from the treaty that's poppy, coca and cannabis and currently there is no adult use pathway legal Canada has its thing but worldwide it's still considered a and Canada's decide to lead from the back seat. So therefore they're waiting for further interpretations from the UN which require an entire rewriting of the treaty so as much as everybody screams oh we want it legal in America why don't we just legalize it well we've just got schedule three because of the work that Michael and our team did at the international level that made medical cannabis legal worldwide okay all we have done is we're coming into compliance with the change that happened in December of 2020 that's all we're doing here until we change the international law which is why we've been working for the I've been working for the past five years six years now doing this where Michael's been doing this since 1997 because he saw the value and it took an entire decade from 2008 to 2020 for them to get the WHO and everybody to change international law for medical cannabis it takes that type and that long and that many years of work and so that's why I've been working the past six years to arrive at 2030 so that we can rewrite the treaty because if we write the treaty and we remove the plants because the plants already have exemptions through the current treaty but it's just annoying loopholes that have to be dealt with through a new rewrite we get that rewrite then there is a pathway legal for not only adult use but recreational use uh worldwide which means now medical cannabis would not only be the only thing that Canada would now be able to export for recreational use. But that that would lead to descheduling here you think in these that would absolutely well it would uh allow to allow to schedule five and that would absolutely desched because being legal treaty in the world uh that would that's where it would basically takes things for 10 years that's all we have left you've got about 10 more years well we we're looking at you know it's 2026 you got about five more years we'll hopefully get that treaty rewrite which we have saw quite a few countries want to see this happen then um yeah it's going to happen quickly but um that's still a lot of work to be done so what what do you think I mean I've heard a couple different opinions on this and I don't really know like where things are going to land.

SPEAKER_03 3:06:57

I mean no one really knows but what do you think the implications are from the um the changing of the hemp rules so so restricting package limits to what 0.4 milligrams per container I mean right now all those hemp beverages that are being sold that are crossing state lines that are now making deep pocketed big beverage people lots of money and they don't want that revenue going away right so I mean again this is the getting into total wine getting into the distribution channel that liquor stores and beverage you know and cold supply chain TJ for lack of you know again just you know beverages that you know maybe they're stored warm in the warehouse but ultimately needed to be refrigerated before they're sold um those those manufacturers mark um pardon me mark are gonna have to create their own manufacturers and distribution in each of the states they want to they're no longer gonna be able to do interstate commerce right well I thought the original premise that you know um that was in the executive order that again I think Dr.

SPEAKER_04 3:08:13

Oz kind of spoke to again I'm not you know trying to stay apolitical here but um that they were going to do like a carve out for hemp for for um not um what what I mean to say it's a very rare exclusivity to people over 65 and it's a $500 credit for CBD and it's gonna be probably for a particular company's CBD but again it's only a $500 credit and it's for a very narrow sliver of people over 65 okay so that's not that's not the Charlotte's Webb medicine and the the demographic of of uh uh Lenicisteau children and Dravais syndrome they're trying to get their foot in that door however that credit is still only five hundred dollars and the main thing is is anybody who has contributed to that can that therefore also cre make their product like four hundred and ninety nine dollars and zero cents you know what I'm saying so there's also some um inherent ethics things set up in that to not allow those types of things to transpire yeah because isn't it true now that still Gavin Newsom's ruling from what now two years ago has basically taken those those CBD products out of the California market.

SPEAKER_03 3:09:42

I mean now when I say out of the California market you can certainly buy them you know wherever but you right and am I correct on that like they're not available to be sold in the California market.

SPEAKER_04 3:09:56

It doesn't mean that they're not being sold in the California market. Right now they never had access to the legal stores and I know Gavin Newsom has basically tossed this football to 2028 so we have to await the new governor to then have to unseal in 2028 that will allow for them to then force the CBD THCA companies to the same what they want to do and what I've been made aware of they want to do is they want to force them into the same testing that the legal market is and then they want to allow people like myself in the legal market to be there for the sellers as opposed to the uh the drinks that are being sold up the street at Bevmo. Right but like this this when they when they did this again correct me if I'm wrong ATN because I want to make sure I get this right that they really painted with a very broad uh brush here and took out things like like like Wade's Harlequin and and things so like colt Colton's medicine is a one-to-one CBD THC that certainly uh in a diluted form might be hemp compliant but certainly like if you apply this 0.4 milligrams per container it's not going to be compliant because there's a lot of THC in there right so I mean internationally that just changed so when does the FDA come into that type of compliance where right I just told you the INCB said there's no longer cares about how much THC as long as it's low in their plant uh in your CBD plant so therefore this arbitrary point 3.4 becomes a new um attacking point for manufacturers producers as well as legislative right because those that arbitrary number is no longer arbitrary from the UN's perspective that now allows for the FDA to now come up with and Canra and the regulators to now decide what those numbers should be whereas we've been going off of base off of the French EU.03% that's the same thing that Marcus and them had to deal with early on and this is the significance of the change by the INCB in December of 2024 is that all this this is arbitrary shenanigans we're discussing is really out the window but however we're so inundated in the overregulation that we've lost the forest for the trees we're stuck in the bushes yeah and I think we're where this really makes a big so the F D and C Act which is a federal act right is is is is for the entire country and so you could operate within the F D and C framework if you're if you're within a state if you're within a certain state but as soon as you do interstate commerce that's where again and will be the problem come November. And so this is where a lot of these manufacturers are scrambling to now find right the ability to manufactur because you know everybody knows not everybody can manufacture and do everything they want to in every state.

SPEAKER_03 3:13:20

Right because there's a patchwork of regulations when it comes to correct say the um different ways like Kentucky is different in Mississippi is different in Alabama is different every state's different yeah and there are no two laws the same it's so weird because again there's like two counter countercurrent things here right there's the hemp people which have a larger addressable market and there's certainly deep packets backing that and then there's the people who have been chomping on the bit getting legal cannabis licenses trying to get market share struggling to get to profitability as we know it is difficult even within a regulated environment even if you do have you know cash backing and you do have you know sales and everything to get to profitability and growth like most businesses because you're handicapped again by the 280E thing which again makes the 280 thing a real big fucking thing because some of these businesses can be profitable if they can get that level of protection right right I mean it it could make all the stay strictly medical no adult youth they have to stay strictly medical to comply there. Right but sell to other DEA licensed people right but is is it safe to say ATN that that the lightening up of of that alone helps millions of dollars of commerce and business happen right there's I mean that that alone I mean even though it's only just such a small piece of the action right oh yeah the medical compared to I mean because a lot of the MSOs out of Canada in the United States are medical specific some are but the majority are and so for in Canada the the ones in them in the United States.

SPEAKER_04 3:15:21

Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah those in the United States so I have been told my legal counsel by that all of them have applied so now again it takes six months for you to get your application they say they're going to again streamline when you say apply apply the DEA application apply for the actual DEA they've applied for the actual dea medical exemption that they've got for so uh we're kind of all sitting back to see again as Colin stated to see what's going to happen because it's uh you know a new ripple if we get more clarification and more protections that make it realistic as opposed to uh we know how the DEA has played in the past so therefore if we see a clear pathway as stated prior everybody wants to come into compliance everybody wants to be legal everybody wants to say they have what what uh our our boy you know david had I would love to say I have an QA but also like a B2B coordination that that means because hi Marcus we can hear you oh sorry yeah I'm sitting here with poo poo's the QA here at the shop that I'm doing uh first of all do you guys know what pooja means no it's to give prayer it's like uh you make these little back these little leaf baskets and you put flowers and maybe some hash and some incense and you throw that down the armada or the gangies and it's a way to give prayer and I just met poo the other day but I was like wow what an incredibly powerful awesome name so I thought we should have pooja on hash church with us for a little while here that is an awesome name how many hash balls uh Marcus have you made and how did somebody get the ball fondling job there and how many have you sent down the river I am the official ball fondler I will admit it uh I have I I've yeah there was I mean geez I don't know how many balls I made yesterday and today but about maybe eight kilos how how many have you sent down the river I'm gonna send them all down the river actually yeah I can imagine whoever finds that out oh my gosh like some guy's gonna be trout fishing down the river and they're gonna find this basket of hash these are gonna these are gonna end up in another country. So do you weigh there are they all a specific weight so you're trying to make them all being uh each a specific gram age or what are you doing there or no I'm buying them out I guess they're probably around between 150 and 225 each ball. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_06 3:17:58

And uh it doesn't matter as Long as it's a it's a it's a wholesale lot, it's a it's a it's a batch basically. So it doesn't they don't have to show up in 50 gram bars or 100 gram bars because most of the countries you send them to have to do their own, I guess what you would call compounding, which is like they get it as a batch and then they break it down how they want to break it down. And so I what I tried to do is create it in a way that would be very easy for them to break it down because sometimes people send them like you know, hash that's as hard as a rock, and then you got to break it into like three gram chunks, and it's like holy shit. He sent me a picture the other day, it was like it was dust. He was like grinding it to get it down. I was just who the fuck made that hash, dude. That's like ridiculous. When you do things improperly in the grow room, you cause problems for people in the lab. And when you do things improperly in the lab, you can cause problems for other people in other labs who so it's it's good to have a full picture of the entire process and try to have some sort of you know, not necessarily empathy, but consideration. A clean chain. Well, exactly, right? And that sometimes the problems you ignore become problems that end up causing you, you know, major problems down the road. She knows she's QA.

SPEAKER_04 3:19:19

Well, you also deal with coldness, right? If you're gonna do cold storage, you have to maintain uh, you know, uh uh consistency throughout. So, you know, that's uh you know, but I besides a clean chain, you know, you also need a cold chain, right? So how do you negotiate both of those?

SPEAKER_06 3:19:38

Well, once again, this is the beauty. And I had this conversation with a customer yesterday who went, he he was like, Hey, where can I get your your hash hits in Colorado? I said, Oh, go check out Lightshade or or uh Rocky Road, both awesome people. Went to Rocky Road, they didn't have any in stock, went to Lightshade, got some, hits me up. I feel terrible for throwing this guy under the bus because he's such a nice guy, and I am not throwing him under the bus. But he hits me up, he's like, bro, it's like holy shit. I, you know, for he was surprised at how cheap it was because A, he was buying traditional hash and thought he was buying cold cured rosin. Uh, he bought a set of two hash hits, which is like 30% THC, and he's showing me the date on his phone. He's like, bro, this stuff was packaged like three months ago, as if I want this, you know, like this is crazy. And I was kind of like, dude, so listen, hash actually gets better with H. Live hash rosin does not, BHO does not, flour does not, almost everything else in the cannabis place does not, but traditional hash requires a proper curing, and that curing cannot happen in a colder environment. And so he ended up smoking them, loving them, being stoked. I'm gonna link up with them in Denver next week and bring him some cold-cured rosin to uh smash them out with. But the bottom line is this is traditional hash and it does not require a cold chain. I want it to cure, I want it to sit at, you know, maybe a little bit lower than a room temperature, you know, maybe like 60 degrees or something. You know, I want it to cure out and create this sort of thick skin on the outside of the hash, which is the protective layer. I love that puja is here because puja is from the country that has some of the longest standing history of of hashish use and hashish uh consumption. Uh, I mean it's written into the religion, it's written into you know the stories of of gods, Shiva, and and uh for any of those that uh of that know of Shiva, Shiva and Shakti. This is uh these were the Babas that I found myself uh getting along with the most when I went to the Maha Kumbamela. I met up with like the Nagas and they were rather intense. I was like, these dudes are intense, they're like they are intense, and then I met up with some other dudes that were like Krishna's, and they were kind of like I felt like the Krishna's were a little bit condescending to the rest of the groups, they were the only ones I saw kind of talking shit about. Like I came out of the Naga tent, and a Krishna guy comes up to me and he goes, What were you doing in there? And I said, Yeah, I was smoking hash and eating food. He said, Eating food, oh, you will surely be poisoned. And I was like, Bro, what the fuck are you? Why would you say that to me? Like it made me so nervous for a while. And then I I kind of saw him later in the festival, like days later, which is incredible because there were two and a half million people there.

SPEAKER_07 3:22:27

Yeah, I bumped into him and I was like, dude, you know what?

SPEAKER_06 3:22:29

Like, you should rethink your like I get it, those guys are intense, they don't have the same beliefs as you, you know, they're walking around butt buck naked with like a skull cap is the only, you know, they have their their mentors top of his skull. That's what they're carrying around with them. Their ashes, their bodies are covered in ash from the dung, from the cow dung that they burn. It's different, but they were still nice enough dudes. I still I feel like you can smoke hash and get to know if someone's willing to smoke hash with you. I don't care how different their belief system is, because trust me, a Naga Bubba could not have a more different belief system than me, and I still had a great time.

SPEAKER_07 3:23:09

Can I borrow your lighter? Oh, I have it. I stole it already. You're you can borrow your lighter.

SPEAKER_09 3:23:15

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 3:23:15

What's that? Yeah, exactly. I would suggest for any of you that have not gone to the Kumbamela in India, or if you've just never been to India, you should check it out. You should go to the north, you should go to Parvati Valley and Milano and Himachel, Pradesh. These are these are like thousand-plus year historic hashish production people. That they've just been doing it for so long that uh obviously we've got a much newer version of these processes, but I always feel that paying homage to the roots, which is why I always that's why we did Legends of Hash, you know, Sam and I. It was it was obviously about promoting and loving our new age hash, but also while recognizing the importance of these cultures that uh maintained hash production and hash cultivation and hash smuggling. That was a huge part of it. People that were willing to smuggle the hash can call them criminals, but uh, you know, they were doing God's work.

SPEAKER_04 3:24:22

They are ambassadors of hashish goodness over the generations, and we thank them, and we thank the hash trail, and we thank the silk trail that were one and all together because they made them, you know, one made the other better, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:24:41

Dude, having hash on the silk trail was like having hash on fish tour, it opened all doors.

SPEAKER_03 3:24:47

We were taught we were taught when we were taught world history, right, about the spice wars, right? Yeah, the Europeans wanted spices from the Far East. Yeah, and they wanted something else. Was it just spice, right? Although it probably was spice, right? When because once you start eating curry, there's no substitute for curry, right? Like what once you have that as part of your diet, you you need that, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:25:19

So we we were talking about it yesterday. It's gotta be the most complex layering of flavors, it's gotta be some of the longest standing flavor profile recipes in food on the planet.

SPEAKER_03 3:25:31

Like, I really ancient, you know, the flavonoids and all thousands of years, yeah, you know, and it's been cultivated for thousands of years, specifically for to maintain and to you know but like saffron, you know, like saffron's really interesting because it um well uh it it's actually its dry value is more than gold, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_06 3:26:04

You heard it here on Saffron Church.

SPEAKER_09 3:26:08

Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:26:09

Well it'd be interesting if you could apply hashing techniques to something like saffron, could you actually isolate like a more potent you know version?

SPEAKER_00 3:26:22

Yeah, I think so. There was a there was a guy I was I was working with a guy on that a couple years ago, but it didn't really get much legs underneath it. So it yet to be determined. People want the real thing, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:26:36

But like with with truffle oil, for example, like I think that that can be chemically kind of like formulated and it could be called truffle oil, but it's not really truffle oil.

SPEAKER_04 3:26:48

Yeah, that's why a lot of chefs I know don't like truffle oil, they prefer real truffles. Right, right. They use that there's I don't want to say they're using beaver anus like in the strawberry or raspberries, but at the same time, whatever that is, it becomes an overpowering flavor. And it's yeah, especially in oil.

SPEAKER_06 3:27:09

And yeah, I I also think whenever you're trying to create flavor profiles from natural plants, you'll always miss the things that are are non-perceivable, the imperceivable, the things that you aren't perceiving that you don't know they're there.

SPEAKER_03 3:27:24

They're too small, they're in a trillionth of a best yeah, fragrance and floral chemists.

SPEAKER_04 3:27:30

Yeah, they had true wasabi over the green, you know, case perfect example, right? There is the the the the exact example right there, right? Because the majority of us are grown up with the green stuff we get in the gas station, wherever, that's a horseradish. But the true, which I've only had once or twice in my life, and it was a religious experience when I had the real deal, because the you're absolutely correct, Marcus. The the the flavors, the the depth, everything in it, there is absolutely no comparison. It would be like having dehydrated cannabis or cannabis.

SPEAKER_06 3:28:10

So when you had that, did you also have the pickled pink ginger?

SPEAKER_04 3:28:16

No, no, I had it was straight ginger. It was yeah, they they did it in-house, they didn't pink it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:28:23

That's the Tojo style. If you go to Vancouver and you go to Tojo's, who's like the sushi master, check them out. Tojo's restaurant. Definitely worth going down that rabbit hole. He he westernized sushi for the western world and gave himself a black eye. Uh, his whole family name got a black eye in Japan because of it. And then after 30 years of becoming this super famous sushi chef and westernizing sushi like unreal, he's now like revered in Japan. He's like uh, you know, they they revere this guy, and he's still alive and cooking. You anyone any of you come to Vancouver? We'll go to Tojo's.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:58

That sounds like a date. No, man, it's funny. You guys talking about this, and I love it because when it comes back to like thinking about cooking as ingredients, you know, it's that's how you know, like when you're a chef, right? You don't want to cook with the olive, you know, you want the olive oil. And so when you start with the base, like from a c to make a concentrate from a concentrate, I mean, that's like my whole pitch. That's like what we're trying to do over here. This whole thing around, you know, cold chain and especially to be able to preserve it. I mean, the the biomass reduction, and I look at it like the five-gallon bucket of sift, you know, you can see these, you know, distillate, you know, storage facilities where it's all fractionated already. And you know, I mean, that's has its certain value, but there's a real something special about you know capturing the terroir and you know, all the different terpene profiles of every given genetic, and to be able to actually consolidate your workflow and you know, put something that's the size of a six-foot-tall pallet to something that fits in, you know, four black and yellow totes, 27-gallon totes. Like that's a huge footprint.

SPEAKER_04 3:30:08

Well, that's what that's what Alice Waters did here in Berkeley is she regionalized all of her ingredients, so she sourced them all locally so that you could experience the local goodness, the regionalness. I had a friend of mine, he grew who grew her blackberries and raspberries, you know, so that you know I could go over to it in his backyard, they were absolutely full, and they'd come through, pick them, and take them, and then I could literally go eat them at dinner, you know. That's you know, that keeping it regional, keeping it local. I look forward to that in cannabis because it's gonna be like that. People are gonna be like here in in Northern California, where they travel for wineries, people are gonna travel to your cannabis equivalent that they're of so that they can see your crop, and then they can go in and sample your crop, and then they can get on your waiting list so that they you can then mail them your crop, which is all the stuff they do currently with wine, right? You have flag out flying saying, Hey, it's it's actually testing day. Come on in, you can taste what this harvest is or last year's harvest, and you know, see what it's gonna be like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:31:22

I love that you said that and made that parallel because like a vision that I have, because I see the pathway for it, and I you know I mentioned it briefly on the last hash church, but like imagine as you just indicated, right? Like, there's these special years, you know, for cannabis, and you got cold storage, so your same experience. A tourist wants to fly to Cali, they're going to the specific location or just a consumption lounge. There's a special wine list, right? But a cannabis list, it's like, hey, this is the 2019 sour diesel grown on Mendocino County Hill or this, you know, Sun Hill Farms over here in Petaluma, California. You know, the special, like whatever was special about that year, and so you can preserve that. And I mean, obviously to a capacity, but you know, a week in advance, you call up and say, Hey, I want an ounce of you know, that Jack Herrera that won the cannabis cup, you know, in 2022, the last year, or whatever that was. And you have that on reserve. And it with the freeze-dry process, 20. I'm pulling it out and give me 72 hours, and that's going to be sitting on your table when you show up. You know, there's your fresh ounce of that specific varietal that preserved everything. So, I mean, that's that's an exciting like you know, thing to think about where cannabis could go. And I mean, that's something that's been eye-opening for me as far as like where, you know, it's you know, we talk about mids, you know, because Breddy grows them, but like there's something special about preserving the high end. That's what we're all trying to do here, right?

SPEAKER_04 3:32:48

Well, we we envisioned back in the day when we were back on tour, we used to envision, man, imagine a place that'd be, you know, you could actually go and buy cannabis and you know, in a store, any time of the day, right? There'd be like store hours, and you could like pick different types of herb and different types of hash. Well, it started off with that concept and a dream and a giggle back in 1993, where today it's a reality. So why can't we have these dreams and ideate them and make them a reality, TJ? Your kids enjoy a place where they can, you know, you know, choose to go out and raise the flag today. Come on in and sample our. Nah, it's kind of a not ready. We'll leave the flag down, we're just gonna chill in-house. You know, that's cool shit.

SPEAKER_00 3:33:38

Someday somebody will have that. It's inevitable, right? I mean, that's the talk with this federal you know, legalization and how you know interstate transfer is probably one of the and banking, those are the biggest restrictions. Like this new you know, bill is interesting with what it's gonna do for science and studies. I'm excited, you know, to see. And there's some other stuff that's in there. Um, but you know, until there's but those are double-edged swords, because as soon as we have you know, federal banking and as soon as we have interstate, you know, then you know things consolidate even more. So like I mean, that's what this comes down to, man. We're all we love what we do, you know.

SPEAKER_04 3:34:14

And there's a gallop, but there's another hundred other uh family names all throughout here that only sell their wine through their mailing lists. You'll never find it if you go to their reserve, yes, right. Well, that's it. But they they sell everything by mail order, and I think that's the biggest thing. Their reputation's good enough that TJ eventually everybody's gonna know the same with Rustin or the same with Bubble Man's, is you know, people already going and looking for his name and understand his name because of what he's done, but now to be able to now preserve that and then to have those vintage vintages available for people to sample in a way. Oh man, I would love to be able to. Oh, you gotta try this, you know, 2024. This is you know, hash plant. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, it's been, you know, it's about five years, it's been maturing as a hash.

SPEAKER_00 3:35:12

Oh that'll be the market awareness that we're looking for, right? Because people are um getting educated. I mean, it's come all the way, but yeah, that's that's a fun future to think about. Access is so so would it's the gift, and that's something that we're we're able to do is kind of unpack the plant, you know, fractionate everything out and kind of go any direction.

SPEAKER_04 3:35:36

Well, this is where I'm I'm jealous of Canada and what Marcus and them are doing up there is everything comes through the mail. You can go to the mail now. They can't go and look at the cannabis as you can in some of the stores here. So there's you know, there's a balance that comes with things, right? You know, in the sense, but this is where if they had those types of access points, which I guess you couldn't do that type of model, Marcus. Uh, in in Canada that allows for uh that type of farm to table, literally, right? Marcus, can you do that in Canada, such as the winery model? We have a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 3:36:15

There's people who have applied and received uh farm to table. I think Carol and Dom have from Weeds. I think they have a farm to table out in Maple Ridge. I believe Kip, my buddy Kip from the Victoria Cannabis Club that Chimera works with, uh, doing some breeding for. I believe they have a farm to table. So it's it's here. It's certainly not at the level of, you know, we're at the beginning of farm to table. Wine is like exploded into farm to table tourism. It's an entire branch of tourism of people who get on buses, right, go to wineries and get hammered. It took decades. Absolutely. It won't take decades for us, um, in the sense that it was the same thing when alcohol prohibition ended. I I heard stories of like, you know, 20 plus years before you saw a sign that said beers, cold beer sold here in the window, right? After prohibition. So prohibition was like, okay, we're gonna allow it, but it was it was like it wasn't the way it is today at all, you know. And you know, things never happen the way we want them to happen. And I think it's you know, that's a biblical story, right? Like when Jesus shows up, he doesn't show up as a billionaire in a Lambo, he shows up as a homeless guy, giving you the opportunity to make a dick of yourself and treat him poorly. And so too do your manifestations come through that way. You often don't recognize them, uh, and they blow right by a lot of people. People have things blow by them because they are so intent on seeing it happen the way they want it. No, no, no, but I pictured it like this. Well, that's why you missed out because you pictured it like this. What you should have done is manifested it and understood and recognized that it's going to show up in a way that you absolutely don't recognize. So try not to follow the and it's always a negative, right? It's always it's always a negative thought that allows something that you've manifested to blow by you. So there it is.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:11

Seize the moment, man.

SPEAKER_04 3:38:12

Mom's spaghetti. Yes. No, that's wonderful. That excites me to know that that that concept is uh ideating for people and it's becoming more of a reality because uh and I I agree, I don't think it'll take the uh the time for the tourism already here in uh one of my ex-employees here in California, uh Victor Pino started um uh Emerald Tours after I had to let him go when the government and all kinds of other shit happened, um dealing with 280E. Um and he's now he he basically drives groups of people around tours in Northern California where they take them to various dispensaries and grows, tailored off of where and how much time you have and what you want to see. And then he'll take you in a private vehicle so you can puff and you know enjoy yourself and you don't have to worry about driving, you know. So those types of things are the creativity that our stoners have, where they're like, man, you know, wouldn't it be cool if we so I love this ideating and getting high and thinking about cool ways that we could expose people to more cool shit, just in the normal ways that everyday normal ways that are accepted, such as drinking and with wineries. I think.

SPEAKER_06 3:39:38

Dude, I'm in wine country, so that's a great metaphor for you for for where we are sitting right now because Kelowna and the Okanagan they grow fruit here and they make wine here, and some of the largest wine. I mean, this has got to be like the Napa Valley of Canada. Honestly. You know what I mean? Like we have the they have the largest, the largest.

SPEAKER_00 3:39:57

Go ahead. I live in Sonoma County, which neighbors Napa County. It's Sonoma County is the Pinot. And yeah, I have grapes growing all around me. Us too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 3:40:07

What type of grapes?

SPEAKER_04 3:40:08

What type of grapes are y'all growing up there in Canada? Because it's all dependent on regions, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:40:14

Yeah, I'm not a big alcohol grape guy. I mean, Breeder Steve would be the person to ask that. He had a winery here for 15 years. It was called Rolling Dale. I think it still exists. He probably sold it by now, and someone else owns it. But I know he was doing like reds and whites, and he was doing the ice wine. But in regards to the actual cultivars of grapes, I'm not really sure. Not a drinker. You were drink you were drinker, TJ.

SPEAKER_00 3:40:41

Yeah, I enjoyed some beverages.

SPEAKER_06 3:40:43

Little bit of uh do you prefer wine or or beer or both?

SPEAKER_00 3:40:47

Like I'm definitely uh Hazy's is my preference, but um I love I good love a good Pinot.

SPEAKER_08 3:40:53

Okay. If it's if it's all around you, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:40:57

Yeah, the right, you know, the right meal, the right bottle, the right company, all those things, you know, they tend to have a good little, you know, and there's like, you know, moderation's the key, just like with anything in life. We're not looking at it.

SPEAKER_06 3:41:09

Yeah, I think I think abuse is the key, and I just like to abuse as many things as I possibly can. Writing a book about it actually, but I don't know if I'll be alive to finish it. Love euphemisms, yeah, just being silly, you know. I'm gonna head back into the lab. I think we got a little bit longer. I feel like we didn't go deep enough into cryo today. We're gonna have to do that this episode again and go deep on cryo, but we might as well, you know, finish it off. What do we got? Are we are we at 12 30 right now, or what time are we at? Oh, yeah, we're almost at 12 45. Okay, so we got 15 more minutes. I'll finish it up in the lab. You want to say goodbye, Pooja?

SPEAKER_07 3:41:45

Bye. Nice meeting everyone. See we're gonna head on in. Head on in for a little hash church finishing.

SPEAKER_00 3:41:57

This is much easier. I'd like to, you know, I got a little something I can share on my screen.

SPEAKER_06 3:42:04

Well, please. We love people sharing on their screens.

SPEAKER_00 3:42:08

See here, man. Let's get a dude.

SPEAKER_06 3:42:13

Is this the smallest pelican case ever? Have you guys seen a smaller one?

SPEAKER_05 3:42:19

That is small. I don't think I've seen a smaller one.

SPEAKER_04 3:42:22

No, I have I have that size. That's the smallest that I've seen.

SPEAKER_06 3:42:30

Shout out to Lotemp for hooking it up at the at my course last uh week or two weeks ago, or whenever that was. What a fun time that was doing the bubble course.

SPEAKER_07 3:42:39

If you've got a lab out there in America that's set up for soloists, you want to talk about doing a bubble man class, reach out to me. We do, brother. So can you guys see my screen? Um, I got I'm on a phone, so I gotta switch. Yeah, it's coming on right now.

SPEAKER_04 3:43:00

You see some hash on there? Not yet. It says uh TJ the original resonance. Sometimes it takes a second to propagate. We're waiting for the screen to pop up.

SPEAKER_06 3:43:10

Alright. It was a strangely long time though.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:16

Should I stop share and try again? I would say so. Do that real quick.

SPEAKER_08 3:43:20

We'll get it. We'll get it. It's not giving you the love today, TJ. I don't know what to say.

SPEAKER_05 3:43:30

It's not. It was earlier.

SPEAKER_06 3:43:36

Maybe when I go up to my computer, I'll be able to. I don't know. I'm I'm the moderator on the computer in the lab right now, so I feel much better after smoking that joint. Holy smokes. It's almost like cannabis is medicinal or something.

SPEAKER_07 3:43:51

Isn't that crazy? Almost as if. Oh, we see it! We see it.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:59

Alright. What what I wanna what's special about this, right, is um so this is live sift, right? No water, no static. Right, two minutes. Are you guys able to see that?

SPEAKER_06 3:44:30

Oh yeah. Looks fucking awesome. I'm trying to get to my computer fast enough.

SPEAKER_04 3:44:36

Just looking at it.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:38

Right. So we really will blow your mind here. So, like I said, this is this is full outdoor, right? Full sun. So, you know, you usually you gotta have indoor to get something like this, and not have used any water or any static, like literally, you know, this is a 150 mic, two minutes with the liquid nitrogen.

SPEAKER_05 3:44:56

And then this is actually from the trim too, which is funny. It's from the byproduct of of cryo trimming. Um, so after we cryo trim the bud that we put in the freeze dryer, we have the the cryo trim, and then we put that back in, and you can, you know, select different micron sizes. This obviously still has contamination, um, you know, a little bit, and it's got all the, you know, some a lot of stems in there too. But you can further refine this before it starts to, you know, put it put it through other screens and try to remove some of those some of those tiles and clean it up a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 3:46:05

So you're doing this in two minutes, Marcus, with no water. Right? What's your room temperature? Hold. We actually did this in a warm temperature room because the resonator of the XLS has liquid nitrogen. Well, then hold it.

SPEAKER_05 3:46:23

This had to go through a freeze dryer too. So this was fresh frozen trim, right? And then you sift it and it lands like we're at like negative, you know, we typically anywhere from negative 25 to negative 150 um on our trim. But um, and then it lands in the base of the resonator, right? And then you clean it into a pre-frozen container, a pre-frozen um uh freeze dryer.

SPEAKER_06 3:46:46

Mention the importance, mention the importance of drying in a freeze dryer with fresh frozen material because I think some people are missing that uh that page. Well, I mean, I don't when I mean if you don't dry it in a freeze dryer, you're gonna lose like do you mean sift or like um I mean fresh frozen sift, fresh frozen sift that has as that's wax membrane moisture that is needs to be still dried.

SPEAKER_05 3:47:13

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you gotta put it in a freeze dryer, otherwise it's just it's you're gonna ruin the terpenes, you're gonna ruin the there's there's too much, there's too much dude.

SPEAKER_00 3:47:22

I need to come play with you guys. Can I come play with you guys? You gotta pre-freeze the freeze dryer the same way you preheated.

SPEAKER_05 3:47:28

Yes, anytime, dude.

SPEAKER_07 3:47:30

Dude, I wanna play. I wanna play. Where where am I going? Where's that lab? Is that in Sonoma? Yeah. All right, Sonoma. That'll be my that'll be my first trip to California ever, right there.

SPEAKER_00 3:47:46

So you know, we're just showcasing sift, right? You know, you're just seeing how we're fragmentating at different levels, and I mean, so the live sift and even infusing that into joints, you know, is really special.

SPEAKER_06 3:48:03

Well, once again, right, preserving all of those volatiles that were never preserved before. What was the percentage of heads that you got out of that? It must have been at least 40 or 50 percent heads when you sifted that with liquid nitrogen.

SPEAKER_05 3:48:20

Um, I don't know what the we did, I'm not sure what the percentage was of the heads, man, because we didn't have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_06 3:48:24

You should always you should always use a microscope and find out what the purity of heads is, right? Like you take a picture of that single screen sift, often dry sift is around 10% or 20% heads, but but spreading it thin and and figuring out a methodology. I mean, this is something you guys should just absolutely have. You should always because when you say, oh, we put a thousand grams in and we got 200 grams of sift out, well, 200 grams of sift could be 2% heads, it could be 19% heads. So the purity is an important factor in identifying what was actually extracted. That looks beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:05

So this was two-minute sift that was turned into rosin and the top, and then the five-minute was on the left, and the ten-minute was on the right.

SPEAKER_06 3:49:14

Fuck, I hit them all.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:16

Yeah, see, that's part of the kind of looking at color. You know, you can skip the fraction and just kind of cut to what is your sweet spot if you like the color. But this was just no water, it's another, you know, um, you know, showcase of what what you're able to do and you know, different pathways here. So that's what I'm just trying to showcase for you guys is just some of the things that we're doing with you know with SIFT. You know, obviously solventless, terps, and away, you know, um, I think it's wanted to share some hash picks. You know, you're out there working with hash today, so at least I could do is share some of our work. And it I think it's exciting to you know, we talk a lot about SIF to hydrocarbon, you know, it's kind of meeting the market where it is because that's a big part of what we're doing with revolutionizing um you know that application. I mean, it's we're tip of the spear and and it's kind of unprecedented. Um, there's special systems out there, you know. Um like we really love the Illuminated guys, and their system is pretty amazing. And what it's able to do with SIFT has just been unparalleled, you know. But that's you know, people are just it's expensive, you know, it's not easy, you know, barrier of entry. Things cost a lot of money, and people have existing systems they want to make work. So retrofitting your system or you know, really trying to tailor to make your existing system work is a real thing that we try to focus on because not everybody has the budget, you know, they've already built out. I mean, I love when a customer is just building out their facility because we can be a part of helping them steer you know a lot of the directions and avoid some headaches. But at the same time, you know, there's you got to meet people where they're at. And sift to hydrocarbon, you know, gets a lot of attention from us because you know the industry wants it, but the high, the the solventless side is the part where we're really getting to start to focus and narrow our efforts. And I think that that first clip I was showing of the two-minute sift, that nitro sift is um something that I think showcases where you're able to get the most, like you know, saying earlier, like get the cream off the top, send the rest for you know, food grade, or you know, you like I just showed you that last rosin clip where we fractioned out the two, the five, and the ten-minute. So, you know, maybe you want a premium, you know, five-star product, you know, that you put up in hey, let's do the two-minute, and the rest goes to the food grade, where you're actually just homogenizing and making the most sense of that. And that was still there's still plenty of material that went to hydrocarbon in that equation, you know. So when you put all these pieces together, I mean that's the that's the essence of what cold chain is providing with these live SKUs, and that's where we live, you know. So, you know, if there was any questions any of you guys had, you know, on the field, you know, with the last 10 minutes, you know, um, you know, we'd love to get super deep in even cryoland, um, because you know, we are, you know, we know we're learning in real time, you know, and so and we have access to uh more than we've ever had, and we're you know, we're gaining knowledge and we're you know keen to share. That's kind of why we try to open up the forum. So I don't know if anybody's um got any of those questions that they you wanted to make certain got asked, or we want to turn it over to Marcus and let him do his thing. But I just wanted to say thanks everybody for you know really having us. Um it's been fun to listen to you guys talk some of the cutting edge um legal components of you know what we're all up against with this transition and pivot in the world of you know, because we all operate in a legal space, so it's a very relevant conversation for those considering our future, you know, and same goes with our health, right? I'm and you're doing some cutting edge stuff, Mark. It's thanks for your contribution.

SPEAKER_03 3:52:42

Thanks, TJ.

SPEAKER_00 3:52:43

We're over here um, you know, gonna keep doing what we can with uh what we have to work with and um just telling our story and appreciate you guys giving us a platform to share that. You know, I hope hope that we all as a community get to continue to thrive and grow. And you know, Marcus, appreciate you putting us all in a position to tell our story and and share with the community some of the things that we're up to. And um, if anybody wants to reach out, like we're that's what we do, we're always here, you guys. We're available on every social platform. We're not hard to get you know a hold of, you know, Google us. Um and don't hesitate, man. Like we reach out if we can help you, your farm or your facility, you know, just diversify, you know, get better, you know, do something different. Hey, you want to get familiar with cold chain process. Um, you know, we're gonna we have the resources. This is what we're up to. So, you know, appreciate all that.

SPEAKER_06 3:53:32

And did you like my sound effect?

SPEAKER_00 3:53:36

I did.

SPEAKER_07 3:53:40

I appreciate you, TJ. Um, I definitely see the value in which in what you guys are doing, man. You're creating a whole other, you know, there you're you're you're heading down a pathway that the industry is inevitably going to be led down.

SPEAKER_06 3:53:53

You know, from the first time Indra mentioned liquid nitrogen here on Hash Church, which was I don't know, when Hash Bible.org is live, we can ask the question. We'll find out exactly the date and the time and the stamp and the episode. I don't know if it was 10 years, but it might have been 10 plus years ago that he first mentioned liquid nitrogen. It wasn't for years after he mentioned that that uh Baroni came out uh with Armstrong and the dude there from Precision that they started doing the cryo can. And it just like when I saw that, I was like, well, if this isn't the unit, which the cryo can did not end up being the unit. I know Matt's gonna watch this and then text me and go, we're running thousands of pounds.

SPEAKER_09 3:54:34

I'm like, okay, no problem, no problem.

SPEAKER_06 3:54:36

Um, but I just don't see it being the unit. I'm in the industry, I'm every I'm in fields of weed all the time, and I don't see it. But what I do see is I see your machine showing up in more and more places. And I know you say it's expensive, but like, isn't it just like 80 grand or something? Yeah. That's not that's not super expensive for a piece of equipment. Like my buddy just bought a joint rolling machine that was 119,000 US.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:01

Yeah, the quarter mil for those uh blackbirds.

SPEAKER_06 3:55:04

Yeah, this was a FX8, I believe, from Detroit. Uh no, Detroit, yeah. I think it was the their pre-roll machine with the it puts rosin and any other sort of uh extract into the joint as well. But uh I mean listen, for what the machine does, I to I kind of was trying to explain to Puja that the history of this industry is that you know, we're gonna do all the same things we did, but instead of doing it with flour, we're gonna do it with resin. And so, you know, for me, the sample creek filtration machine is gonna be super key because when you're starting with sift, well, you can take that sift and you can purify it as little or as much as you want, right? There's always gonna be a place for uh farmer's grade sift. Farmer's grade sift makes traditional hash. People who smoke traditional hash aren't interested in taking a rocket ship ride to the moon uh with 70% THCA. They want the warm hug that hashish has to offer. That warm, comforting friend on a rainy day, nice uh, you know, little bowl of mac and cheese and a grill or grilled cheese and tomato soup. Comfort. It's comfort. You know, this is the opposite of what dabs and and and whatnot are. So I love the idea of the future. I tried to explain to Pooja one day you guys are gonna be putting socks in your extractors full of just heads. And then you will see that it's no more work, it's it's the same amount of labor and time and energy, and you're just gonna get an 85% yield instead of a 23% yield. So you'll see quickly, people will be very into it. And from my perspective, like people are like, what about the water hash world? Well, dude, as long as it's cold supply chain and the heads show up like sand in a 55-gallon barrel drum, I can run them through vibratory sieves and collect the 73 and the 90, and I can collect the 120, I can take the rest and put it into food grade, I can put this over here. Once you have control of isolating your ingredients, you know, even though they're all heads and they're all cannabis, I use the metaphor of like, if I'm gonna bake something, well, I can't just bake with butter. I need the flour and I need a little sugar and a little vanilla with and some eggs. And that's what all these things are. And when I get the grades, what I find I can do is I can come up with all sorts of cool, uh, cool grades of of hashish. Look at that. Boom, right on my computer. That's the material right there. That's the sticky, that's the sticky sticky. And this is not bubble, this is farmer's grade dry sipped that is around 40% THCA.

SPEAKER_00 3:57:44

Love it. Isn't it nice that we can like dial the radio dial just like a little bit one way or the other to achieve the the desired, you know, potency uh and purity of the product?

SPEAKER_06 3:57:55

Well, everyone's different, and people, and you know, like I learned this as a professional photographer, posting the pictures I think are the best are not the ones that other people think are the best. And so when you're in a position to bring products to the world, and it it's a you know, you have to get out of your own head. Ideally, you'd listen to the people your the people who are purchasing said products and uh you know, try not to produce, you know. For a while I thought everyone in the world needed full melt, and I didn't care about what anyone said. I just said, look, if you had full melt, I know you think you like that flower, I know you think you like that, but if you had this, you would not like that. I promise you. That's how insane I was in my head. And now I'm like, dude, the value of all the all the differences, that is the value.

SPEAKER_07 3:58:39

It's the spice of life. You gotta have you gotta have the different spices. All right. Well, I guess before I go back to work, I will wrap up another episode of Hash Church 1257. That was pretty damn good. I want to thank Puffco for sponsoring for lacing me up.

SPEAKER_06 3:59:04

They're gonna hook me up in Chicago, they're gonna hook me up back in Denver, they just laced me up in Michigan, they just laced me up in in Denver. And generally, when they lace me up, I I give it to awesome people when I leave uh the state so that other people are getting laced up. So please don't think I have a collection of 1,000 Puffco pipes. Try to keep it just one and give the rest out to the to the people. So cheers to Jolly Roger and James and uh Scott and Chelsea and the whole Kevin, the whole team over there, fucking awesome people. And also thank you, Jeffrey from the Press Club. Uh, really appreciate you guys supporting us uh over the last couple of years. And uh I've now got the press club products on my website.

SPEAKER_07 3:59:48

So I'm happy to help those guys move rosin bags and and other products. And uh yeah, of course, thank Bubble Bags because I probably wouldn't be here uh if it wasn't for that crazy company coming into being. Who would have thought it? Now, how did that company come into being? Well, I obviously manifested it, but how did it actually come into being?

SPEAKER_06 4:00:07

I got arrested with 16 pounds, 16 pounds and six grand cash and a roadblock in 1998, thought it was the end of the world, woe was me, this, that, and the other thing. And then the mushrooms reminded me. Wouldn't that be interesting if this was your opportunity that you manifested, but you didn't recognize it and it blew right by you? So I stopped in my tracks and I said, Well, wait a minute, maybe this is that. And my wife and I started Fresh Heddies and we created bubble bags. Uh, and uh the rest is history, all manifested through being arrested and put in jail and having everything from me taken was the birth of the bubble bag company. So I'll finish it on that. May the full melt bless your bulls sooner than later. Thank you everyone for showing up every Sunday. I really, really, really appreciate it. Thank Bingo Lombardi for holding it down in the chat room, literally on the regular. He's throwing up everyone's Instagrams. He's just awesome. We love you, buddy. Um, thank you guys for showing up. Uh, Rustin, for being a little nervous today, but I think you did great. I didn't see any nervousness from you, bro. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 4:01:12

Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_06 4:01:13

Thank you for thank you to TJ for bringing him in and coming in and being a leader in his community. And thank you for igniting a fire under my ass because I'm fucking coming to Sonoma County, baby. I am coming. That is for sure. That's gonna be my first trip to California. So awesome. Stoked.

SPEAKER_00 4:01:32

Um thank you, Mark. Thank you, Marks. Thank you, Marks.

SPEAKER_07 4:01:39

I'm gonna call it a day, everybody. Peace out.

SPEAKER_06 4:01:42

Bye, everybody. Thanks.