Hash Church season 12 Episode 25

Sponsored by Puffco, The Press Club and Bubblebags

#HashChurch #Bubbleman #OriginalResinator #Cryo #Solventless #BubbleHash #DrySift #LiveRosin #FullMelt #CannabisExtraction #Hashish #Puffco #ThePressClub #FreshFrozen #FreezeDry #CryoTrim #CryoSieve

At Hash Church, we talk a lot about ritual, respect for the plant, and elevating the experience. That’s exactly why we’re proud to be supported by Puffco.
Puffco continues to set the standard for modern consumption with tools built for people who truly care about flavor, temperature, and intentional use.
From the Puffco Peak Pro with the 3D XL Bowl — delivering consistent heat, bigger hits, and unmatched terp expression —to the Proxy, redefining modular, ritual-based consumption,and the Pivot, bringing true Puffco performance into a compact, everyday format…
These aren’t gadgets.They’re purpose-built tools for hash and solventless.
We’re genuinely grateful for Puffco’s continued support of Hash Church, our guests, and our community. Their belief in education, culture, and quality helps us keep these conversations alive.
👉 Support the brands that support the culture.Visit puffco.com, explore their lineup, and experience what intentional design really feels like.
Puffco — Elevate the Ritual.


We believe that how you make hash matters just as much as what you make. Craft, consistency, and respect for the process are everything — and that’s why we’re proud to be supported by Press Club.
Press Club has become a trusted name in solventless production, creating well-engineered rosin presses, accessories, and tools designed for people who take this work seriously — whether you’re pressing at home or dialing in a professional workflow.
From their precision-built pressesto their thoughtful accessories and hardwarePress Club helps makers focus on what matters most: quality in, quality out.
We’re genuinely grateful for Press Club’s support of Hash Church, our guests, and the wider solventless community. Their commitment to education, craftsmanship, and accessibility helps push the culture forward.
👉 Support the companies that support the craft.Visit pressclub.co, check out their presses and tools, and take your solventless game to the next level. Use code : hashchurch10 for a discount
Press Club — Built for the Press.

Grand Master LEDs was founded by Thomas Gibson with one mission in mind: build the most advanced lighting systems possible for growers who demand true top-shelf results. With a deep understanding of plant biology, light intensity, spectrum control, and canopy performance, Grand Master LEDs has become a trusted name for cultivators chasing elite quality.
These aren’t just lights — they’re precision tools designed for those who care about terpene expression, resin production, structure, yield, and consistency. Every fixture is built with focus, purpose, and a relentless dedication to helping growers unlock the full potential of their genetics.
If your goal is to grow louder flowers, frostier resin, and premium-grade harvests, Grand Master LEDs is built for the mission. On Hash Church, we salute companies pushing the craft forward — and Grand Master LEDs is doing exactly that.
You can use Hashchurch10 as a code to get a discount of 10%



Join this channel to get access to perks:
   / @bcbubbleman  

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:03

All right. Not sure exactly what I've done here, but it looks like I've got two screens. Let me see if you guys are seeing. No, you're not. Okay, good. Interesting. Welcome everybody. Welcome everybody to Cash Church season 12, episode 25. Uh, my confusion was that I guess I've created a I clicked the link that now creates, not only does it create the full size screen, but simultaneously on my Zoom box, I have a short screen as well. And I guess this is to make shorts easier, some new thing YouTube's doing. Anyway, number one dad here coming at you live. Thanks to my boy Tanner for giving me this shirt. Number one dad. Uh, it is Father's Day today. So I would wish all of you fathers, fathers to be, fathers that were, fathers that are. A very happy Father's Day. You guys matter, believe it or not. It is men's mental health week month. Sorry, I guess it's men's mental health month. I had no idea. I always just thought it was Pride Month. But apparently, while it is Pride Month, it is also simultaneously men's mental health month. So get your mental health in order. Hopefully, you guys are doing well. And hopefully, if you're having stress as a man, not that many places to go sometimes. So uh maybe we can make this a place to go. Ash church, if you're if you're having a difficult time, hit us up in the chat today. Uh, we got some pretty positive people in the chat that might be able to bring you to a positive place. Uh, for the dads out there who are unable to see their kids. My hearts go out to you guys. I know that's got to be the most difficult thing. I'm blessed. Uh, I'm allowed to see my kids. I live with my kids, uh, so I don't take that for granted. But uh yeah, shout out to all the dads, shout out to all the moms, shout out to all the kids, shout out to everybody, and welcome to Hash Church because uh we're here and we're doing it and we're gonna go hard. So, as always, I'd love to start off with uh giving love to my sponsors because uh, well, we couldn't do it without them, although we could probably do it without them. We did it for 12 or 11 years without them, but I'm saying it wouldn't be as fun. It's pretty damn sweet when we have them with us. So we'd like to shout out the press club. Um, we're very proud to sponsor, uh, be sponsored by the press club, creators of premium rosin bags, extraction accessories, and solventless processing tools trusted by hash makers everywhere, whether you're pressing small batch artisan rosin or running commercial scale production, the press club delivers the quality, consistency, and reliability needed to get the most out of your resin. Uh, their commitment to innovation and education has made them really a respected name throughout the solventless community. I myself use uh the press bag uh products in three or four of my labs down in the US right now. Uh, you can check out the press club and you can elevate your hashmaking game with tools designed by and for true uh resin enthusiasts. So you can uh go check them out at www.thepressclub.co. Um and then of course I would love to shout out Puffco. Let me just make sure I'm changing the picture here. There we go. Hash Church is proudly sponsored by Puffco, the company that continues to push the boundaries of concentrate consumption. Whether you're enjoying Full Mel Bubble, yes, full melt bubble. I was smoking some six star in my Puffco yesterday and it did not chaz. It cleaned up perfectly. Uh, bubble hash, rosin, or your favorite solventless creations. Puffco's innovative device delivers exceptional flavor, consistency, and ease of use. From the Peak Pro with its industry-leading 3D XL chamber to the portable proxy and the ultra-convenient pivot. Puffco has become the go-to choice for hash enthusiasts around the world. You can visit Puffco and discover why so many connoisseurs trust their terps to Puffco. Ain't that the truth? Trust in Trust in Terps. Ah, well, be hard set not to shut out my own company. We've been doing it since 1999. One of the OGs, the originators of the three-bag, the four-bag, the five-bag, the six-bag, the seven-bag, the eight-bag kit. Yes, before bubble bags, there was only two bags. And for a while, that uh, you know, that was uh, I think for three or four months that existed. Uh, and very quickly the world understood, uh, regardless of what people were saying, that three bags was better than two, and certainly four was better than three, and certainly five was better than three or four, and on and on and on it goes. Since 1999, bubble bags have been bringing the OG vibes to the industry. We helped create a massive amount of hash makers. Before we came out, there was no contests for hash. We like to feel that bubble bags was a little bit responsible for that. Uh, and you can support bubble bags by heading over to bubblebag.com. You can use bubble bags. Uh, oh, what is it? Bubble Hash 10 or Bubble Bag Hash Church. Hash church 10. Geez, I'm I'm not reading this. Can you tell? Uh Hash Church 10 is where you want to check out. You'll get a 10% discount on top of what is already uh like a 40 to 50% discount. We really flip the prices on these bags. Um, we've had everyone and their dog copying these bags. These bags are available for somehow $30 for eight or 10 bags on Amazon. Of course, they disintegrate when you put them into the water. So come check us out at bubblebag.com. We will sell you bags that will not disintegrate into the water. And more importantly, we'll be here for years afterwards when you have questions. And we have all sorts of supportive communities from our groups on Facebook to our group here on Hash Church. So please come check us out. All right, so that's done. I know Dr. Mark's got a gentleman he's trying to bring on today. We'll see how that works out. Uh you want to do today. Let's see what Mr. Ramo is saying. Maybe he wants to come do a little visit. Now, uh Colin is in Thailand, so we're not sure we're gonna see him today. He doesn't have any idea what time it is here versus what time it is there, and I know how that feels. Gosh, I've had it happen just being in Indiana recently on the Illinois border. I was in Illinois on the Indiana border, but the hour kept flipping on me, and I literally, even by checking online, I could not figure out what timeline I was in. So uh yeah, let's uh I think let's have a puff. I have some beautiful Father's Day full melt bubble. I'm not gonna lie. This is some spectacular bubble hash. Please wash me. I love the flavor profile on this. I'm not gonna lie. Happy Father's Day, brother. Happy Father's Day to Reno. Happy Father's Day to Dr. Mark, because uh well, we got all sorts of fathers in the house. Him being uh just one of them. Let's make sure we're all good here. Yes, we are good. Yes, yes, very good, bingo. We've got some beautiful and thanks to Quav. Quave, sorry, Quav. Thanks to Quav. No, thanks to the Quave Banger hooking me up in Colorado recently, the Quave Banger Club. I think I'm gonna call it Quav from now on. It makes me sound French and fancy. How's it going, Dr. Mark? Good. How are you, Marcus? It's going good, dude. I I loved the picture of you and Dr. Mark. The Dr. Mark's photo is like I'm framing it and putting it on my wall.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah, so tell them tell them what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_06 8:04

Well, I was uh, of course, I missed the uh um oh, what was it? No, I'm gonna make a mistake. What was the event called?

SPEAKER_01 8:10

It wasn't Medican, it was uh it's it's it's CanMed CanMed, yes. So this was CanMed 2026. So this is uh, you know, most people know that this is uh the folks at Medical Genomics, uh, which is the McCernan brothers. So there's Kevin McKernan and his brother uh Brandon McCernan. And yeah, I mean, like many things in the industry, there's people who have uh opinions about them, and uh certainly I don't agree with everything. You know, Kevin's a really, really smart guy, he worked on the Human Genome Project, and most of their products uh that relate to cannabis have to do with uh screening for pathogens. And Kevin is a really, really bright, very inspiring kind of guy. Uh and his brother um uh Brendan, who run the medicinal genomics company, and um, yeah, so um I'm really excited because you know it it's it's just it's such a great um group of people, you know. Marcus, you know some of these folks like Ethan uh was there, and we're of course we're talking about Ethan Russo, um uh Bonnie Goldstein, Dustin Sulak, uh Sue Sisley, you know, the front-end doctors who use cannabis in their practices and are showing the rest of the world about how you can successfully treat um all kinds of medical conditions with cannabis. And so Dustin Sulak, uh known as the healer, he's up here in Maine. Uh Sue Sisley, who's very well known for her uh suing the government uh over the moldy weed that the University of Mississippi used to have to provide to do um uh uh any kind of clinical work. She's now uh uh been successful in those lawsuits and now is using locally grown sourced cannabis in her clinical trials with veterans who have PTST. So it's very exciting to hear about Sue's research and what Sue's doing. Uh Bonnie Goldstein, who's one of the again very well-known pediatric um uh doctors who again has been treating uh kids with oh Marcus, these stories I I'm almost tearing up as I tell you this. And again, being a father and being a somebody who again, when when you have children who are sick and you know that cannabis works, and you know that the government has lied to us, and they try to drug you with all of these FDA-approved pharmaceuticals that are supposedly safe, and they end up actually causing more damage than they do good. Um, it's just so amazing that these doctors have basically put their own careers on the line to be um, you know, those those doctors that are are using cannabis not as a as a you know, oh okay, you have chemotherapy now, so now you're gonna die. So here take some can. No, they're using cannabis as a front-end medication, you know, and avoiding pharmaceuticals. And that's again, this is like Dustin Sulak up here in Maine, uh Bonnie Goldstein out in Los Angeles. Um uh Ethan, as we we know, is just such a uh huge pioneer in this field. Um Ethan is Ethan is by training a neurologist, but he still I believe sees patients and makes recommendations on cannabis. And Ethan's gone the next step, which is actually now involved in in certain products. And Ethan thinks the new uh uh cannabinoid of uh uh that's really gonna gain a lot of traction in the medical field is gonna be CBG, and that's partly due to his work. So uh Professor Mandeep Satcheva, who spoke from Tech uh Florida AM, uh talked about combinations of CBC and CBG that are basically uh completely wiping out um um uh um pancreatic cancers and other kinds of cancers. Uh, very inspirational work. For me, he's kind of like my inspiration because I look at what he's doing and saying, oh my gosh, this is real medicine that's really working against cancer. Uh the data cannot be refuted. Um, there was another fellow there named Luke Hatson from a company called Sensa uh down in Atlanta that's developed a uh CBD derivative that's much more bioavailable and is less metabolizable than CBD. CBD, even in nepidirects, one of the reasons why the dose is so high, an effective dose, is because, again, there's a uh a metabolism of CBD in the body to an inactive metabolite. This company has figured it out and they figured out a better molecule that was much more bioavailable, and they're gonna take that into INDs. IND is an acronym for investigational new drug. So that's what you need to do to uh petition the FDA to basically move something into clinical trials. So lots of exciting stuff going on. I traveled there with my colleague uh Lindsay Avery, who showed some of the data that we've we've generated on some of the new derivatives that we've made. We've made a hydrofluorinated version of HHC that is completely killing all kinds of cancer cells. It is just amazing. It just lit up the screens down at the National Cancer Institute. So one of the meetings that I had was with an attendee who was from the National Institutes of Health, and he's tying us in with some researchers down there in Bethesda to make sure that my research uh is is funded and to make sure that it continues to go forward because we're seeing some very fascinating data. Um, I'll be able to share some of that data coming up here on Hash Church. But hey Marcus, I reached out to Israel uh uh Gasparin uh from a company in um Toronto. Um he spoke last year at CanMed, but I had a lot of good FaceTime with him this year. In fact, we split an Uber coming back to the airport. He was going back to Toronto and I was coming back here to Vermont. So um his company is called Zentrella, so Z-E-N-T-R-E-L-A. And he just texted me and said that he will be joining us. So um his company has got this fascinating technology, and I'll tell the story that I told you earlier today, Marcus.

SPEAKER_06 14:55

Should we should we should we preempt his story or should we just let him look at it?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

What do you think? I'll I'll tell you the the this the story that I told you, which is that they were working with PAX, and I took a photo of one of his slides and I sent it over to Colin. And I'm like, hey, look at this cool you know thing that this company is doing with PAX. And Colin got back to me immediately and said, That's my formulation.

SPEAKER_06 15:22

So yeah, but didn't they pay him for those formulations?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yes, yes, so now they're theirs, right? And I don't believe Colin's working with PAX, but while Colin was working with PAX, we should know that again, this is, I guess, maybe their premier flagship. Uh oh, is it a live rosin pen or whatever Colin's formulation is? I don't participate.

SPEAKER_06 15:43

So, do you want to know the funniest thing about the live rosin pen? The first person they called about that was me in 2014, 2015, and it was because Tony and I were working on creating the Bubble Man Trinity pen. I don't know if you remember that pen, but we had one called the Trinity in 2014, and it was sold at uh here's the box right here. Oh no, this is the Triton. This is the next one, the Triton. This is from 2014, if you can imagine. And I they called me, they said, We want to do a live rosin pen with your company. And I said, Well, just call my partner, he runs my brand. And so I gave them Tony's number and they called Tony, and like I didn't hear anything for like two or three weeks. And one day I just was like, Hey, what's going on with that pack still? He's he goes, Oh, yeah, I meant to tell you, thank you. That's that's amazing. And I was like, What's amazing? Are we doing it? He's like, He's like, Well, you know, we're doing a blue river one. I figured that would made more sense than the Bubble Man one. And I'm like, But I gave you their number because they reached out to me to do a Bubble Man pen. So that's how close I got to do. This was before Colin got involved. This was before Tony did his pen with them because he did a Blue River PAX pen. That's kind of how Blue River blew up, and that's also kind of how Tony and I blew up. That was sort of what year was that, Marcus? Like it had to be 2015 because 2015.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

So that was really at the front end of 100 when that whole thing was happening. I mean, yeah, so I I I remember very, very crude uh vape pens around 2011, where you know you had to load the the the the the thing and the thing with the little uh globe. Remember the thing with the little globe? Oh, yeah, you'd have to fill the globe with smoke. I forget what what version that was, but I want to say that was like 2011-2012-ish. But yeah, 2015. I mean, you think about it, right? Even like when you look at the devices today, oh my gosh, I mean, just the hardware has been so um uh uh I guess the word right word is developed and optimized. Um, you know, to get away from uh you know cotton wicks. I guess there used to be a bunch of cotton in there, right? Now I I believe there are there are systems that are completely you know fiberless. There's no more a cotton wick that's involved. Is that is that correct? I mean it's all like ceramic. This one was from 2014, dude.

SPEAKER_06 18:23

And this one was from my buddy Gary from Utopian. This is the guy that created the one that could could pump kilos of oil. Every one of his components is completely like just high quality, everything's just perfect. You can see this guy here, and then you have five different sizes. We'll take the big guy, which is the atomizer 2015. If you can imagine this, shout out to Gary Bay that goes like that, then that pumps into there. Then you've got your mouthpiece, and then of course, this went on to the battery. I don't have the battery anymore, but it was a big fat. Oh, this is the same battery right here, actually. If I can yeah, I'm looking for my old hardware. Yeah, I don't even have it, but this was this was somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I have a box of old hardware, yeah. Like that, those things, yeah. Yeah, dude. This was crazy. Gary was I mean, they worked, right? But and they also heat they heated it so freaking hot. There was like one temperature, right? Well, Gary, Gary was after that.

SPEAKER_06 19:31

Gary was the one that came up with he discovered what was inside of them. He started breaking them open and finding the wick, the the the the solder, you know, the the the coating on the wires that were being evaporated and vaporized out. Right. So he kind of discovered all of this stuff. He was the savant, and I put him together with Tony because Tony was doing the brand down in California, and we were doing a terpene rosin mixture. So Gary needed to be involved in regards to you know the fluidity of the oil was how he based right the technology, and so that uh that was over 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

Yeah, it was like 10, 11 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Pre-Roger, right? This is this is pre uh pre-PUFCO because I know this would be pre pre-PUFCO.

SPEAKER_06 20:22

Puffco is 10 years now, so Puffco didn't come out much later, you know what I mean? Like they came out like they just had their 10-year anniversary or whatever, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

I met with I met with them early on. Uh Avi, I think, is Rogers' um uh engineer, or I I can't remember what his training was, but he's he's basically the wizard at Puffco. I think his name is Avi, right? A V I, I think that's a good job title.

SPEAKER_05 20:51

I'm the wizard. Yeah, what do you do over there? Just I'm the wizard.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

They they knew that just putting oil onto you know Nichrome wire. I mean, Nichrome is the same thing you see in your hairdryer or in your toaster oven, right? That thing that turns bright red in your toaster oven, right? Oh, yeah. So that's basically just Nichrome, which is which is uh an alloy of nickel and chromium. Speaking of wizards, we have someone oh okay, there he is.

unknown 21:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

So isn't it just so I mean, we have there is, you know, like any new industry or any new thing, there's like an S curve, right? And there's this innovation that happens early on, early on, early on. Now things have kind of plateaued, right? Would you agree, Marcus, that we've kind of gotten so far that how much further is there to go, right? Like I mean, man, I bet you further.

SPEAKER_06 21:49

You know what Terrence said? How come the deeper in you go, the bigger it gets?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Yeah, you would think though, I mean, I'm just talking about vape pen and vaporization technology. I mean, when even you think the innovation in in glass blowing and being able to make a quartz banger, you know, I mean I mean what when did that start? Who what was the first glass company to realize, oh my god, we use this as a nail, not just as the bong, right? I mean, who did that? When did that happen?

SPEAKER_06 22:26

At the top of my head, I have no idea, but I will say that that full melt bubble was delicious on a side note.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

So what I'm gonna do here live on Hash Church is so so Colin gave me one of these. So here it is. And uh you know what look what it says here, Mark. Rip here. Rip here, like where else are you gonna rip? So yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 22:50

Well, not everyone that buys that has a T A uh THD, Mark.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

So Okay, so it says here, it says on the other side it says grip here. And on the other side it says rip here. Grip and rip. So and this is obviously our friend's uh that's his this is his his label. How do you like that, Marcus? Yes, yeah, very nice, very nice. So what is that?

SPEAKER_06 23:14

So vessel vessel life sciences, New York.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Oh, okay. Okay, so that's what that means. So let's uh rip this in real time and look at Colin's pen. So yes, Colin was on his way to Thailand. He's gonna come in soon, actually.

SPEAKER_06 23:33

He's in Thailand right now. He's in Thailand. I guess he's like 11 o'clock tomorrow or something.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Bunch of clones, and I think it's it's like yeah. Dude, flying into Thailand with a bunch of clones is wild. Okay, so here's Colin's hardware. Oh yeah. You you've you've seen these before, right? Hey, Marcus?

SPEAKER_06 23:54

I think I have almost the exact same thing right here. Yeah. This is Kung Fu Vapes has been doing this version. And then it it it plugs you can take the things out, right? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

I've yeah, I've never.

SPEAKER_06 24:09

Maybe mine's different.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

I don't want to break it. I I don't know. Are are these? It might be an olive.

SPEAKER_06 24:15

That's a big olive one though. It's it's a big disposable if it is. Let's ask Colin. He's coming in right now. This is uh the same idea, but with just pods that replace.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Oh yeah, it's proper. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:34

Yeah, delicious. Yo, yo, dude. Dude, you come in from Thailand and you put a background on, you should be like, yeah, with the background in Thailand, should be back in the house.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Dude, I'm in my hotel. Let me let me just tell you, it's funny.

SPEAKER_06 24:49

Dude, but it's a Thai hotel.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

I know, but it's not, it's like, come on. Are you in Bangkok? Yeah, dude, I'm in Bangkok. Hold on a second. Let me fix the background.

SPEAKER_06 24:59

Listen, I hid some hash in 1998 on Cal San Road.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

No way, really. The hash here is yeah, the hash scene is pretty cool. Um, it's highly illegal for those that don't have medical.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Um what's highly illegal? Um, so what I'm being told it's uh it's a it's a fine, um, but it's not a huge fine. I think like they I'm I'm being told it's like anywhere from 200 to $1,000, right? If you get caught.

SPEAKER_06 25:32

Highly illegal.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Well, then they then the police, and then I was told the other day that the you know there's no gangs here because the police are the gang. Right. Right. And so you have to know the police, and then you have to, you know, work with the right people. And you don't have you can't work with the low-level individuals because if you do, then all the people above him come to you until you hit the top guy, right? And it's this long convoluted thing that um is uh I'm learning about. So it's super cool. Um, the country is amazing, the people are incredible. Some of the hash is really quite old school, but some of it's pretty new school. It's a really nice spread of people with knowledge. Um, we toured some grows, which were varying in sophistication, which is amazing to see, all the way from like the most high-tech indoor 100, you know, two, three hundred, four hundred lights, you know, like massive indoor, proper facility with like properly grown genetics and you know, some living soil gardens. Um, but it's all changing quickly um towards the end of medical. And um, that's why we're here because we're being we're putting together a lab or we've put together a lab for medical export with our partners here who have um quite the facility. It's really cool. Um, it's all um pharmaceutical grade KPIs. Um and it's not even type one or type twos, which I thought was very interesting for what we're doing. But the country's really cool. I mean, I'm I'm just super impressed with indoor or outdoor, Colin. So so what we're doing is indoor and controlled greenhouse. Now there's all of the above, though. I mean, I saw hoop houses, I saw um like just great straight up outdoor grows, like you know, acreage and whatnot. And that's that's Chiang Mai. That's a comp that's a that's an hour flight north of here. We go to Chiang Mai to go to the grows. It's where mainly a lot of the grows are. Um there's a few grows here in Bangkok that we've toured. We went to one yesterday, um, but they're much smaller, you know, like there's a couple bigger ones here, but um, with the laws changing, speaking to some of these these cultivators just that are still hanging on to the old model, um, you know, they're not quite sure how it's gonna go. So they're just waiting for guidance. So it's a big spread.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Are they washing and making hash right there where they're growing, or they'd have a separate facility for that?

SPEAKER_03 28:11

But that's the thing, you're technically not allowed to do this unless you have the license that I have.

SPEAKER_06 28:16

So there are people washing, yes, and I won't name those people, and you know, because dude, listen to this is the crazy thing about Thailand, and I've been hearing this since I know first it blew up, and I was like, Whoa, like they released so many clones. They did this, they did it in a way that I've never heard another country doing it in my life. They like blew past Amsterdam from zero to a hundred miles an hour just overnight. Then the king or whatever was like, No, we're gonna pull this back, it's gonna be, you know, this was when it started getting more serious, and this was because so many people were just bringing shit in from Cali. There were just Cali packs in Thailand, like crazy. Yep. Um, and so they were like, Okay, we gotta this will be embarrassing. Once it's outside of your country, then it becomes an embarrassment, right? So I think that's might have been what happened. Then they were like, Okay, we're gonna do these licenses. That's when I started having conversations in Thailand, and the the thing that weirded me out was every single person I talked to, and I only talked to maybe like eight or nine groups, said they had that license during a time when like four people had that license.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

No, there's one person with this license, bro. I'll tell you right now, there's actually only one. There's another person.

SPEAKER_06 29:32

I'd also heard this this story as well. So, how the fuck do you like protect yourself and know right that it's real?

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Our lawyers, and this has been worked on for three years. This is not just something that came out of the blue. Um, this has been strategically been we've been negotiating this for quite some time. This was gonna be another company's project, but that certain company is in a heap of trouble, and um, we decided to do it ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah, yeah, so you don't get there for free without paying attorneys to do exactly what you did.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Not at all, dude. This is not uh by chance, this is not by luck, this is not because we were at the right place at the right times, because we brought in our team, we were approached by a particular group that wanted a different group, actually. And that group totally blew them, blew themselves up, and we had an opportunity, and our lawyers said that if you want this, you can do it. It is unique. Um, so we're gonna do it, you know. And and we negotiated the deal for a long time. You know, this is not just like, hey, go sign paperwork and get off it over here. I mean, I brought clones here, guys. Like I flew through China with clones, it was the most scary thing I've ever done. I'm not gonna lie. I mean, I have a picture of me with all the suitcases in in when I landed in in uh Thailand, it's hilarious. It's just me with all the clones and suitcases holding them. And I'm like, I looked at the case.

SPEAKER_06 31:01

Here's a question. Did you just bring them or did you have paperwork that you brought?

SPEAKER_03 31:06

I brought paperwork. Okay, that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_06 31:09

And you showed that paperwork to customs while they were looking at the plants. Correct, exactly. That's how you do it properly.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Correct. Yeah, I want to tell the audience here. This is not again, this is not by chance. This is not something that I had a hope and a dream and just gone on a plane with clones. Like we this is the home.

SPEAKER_06 31:25

Well, I will tell you, DEA or not, those pay those papers would not have protected you in China.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

I know, but this is connected to another license in uh that's a one of the the DEA license in the states as well. So it's a bigger, it's a much bigger license than I'm alluding to here. This is not just a Thailand license. This is connected to um the United States as well. And we did this because, again, Marcus, we've all been doing this our whole lives. We want to touch more people with our hash, um, with our static sif. So this is our conduit. So for Marcus, for Dr. Mark, for myself, for all the people that are close to us to have the ability to do what we do and touch many people. So that's what we've done. We've set up a conduit to be able to touch the rest of the world. We have an incredible team behind this. Um, I've been waiting a long time to talk about it. Omar Ortiz is in his hotel room upstairs. I told him to come down to talk about it, but um, you'll probably I'll try to get him on the show to kind of talk a little bit more about our cultivation partnership and who's behind that. I it's kind of his wheelhouse and what he's kind of been working on. And it's cool, it's just a cool opportunity for us all. You know, I look at this as a as the water and it rises all the boats, and everybody can be a part of this. It's not just one singular brand. Um, yes, I'll be doing some vessel stuff, but obviously, you know, the doors open for everybody that um is close to us, you know. Like we want that, we want to be able to bring people to the rest of the world.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

So, will you be producing a Thai stick? That's my biggest question. Will there be a wooden stick with weed with a little string?

SPEAKER_03 33:07

Come on, no, probably not.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Us old school guys, we want that.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

I don't I don't know how that would get done, you know, because it's not a medical product, you know. Um but we obviously gotta get medical sticks. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Back in the day, you know, I was growing up in suburban New York City, so I was living in northern New Jersey. We used to come into Central Park, and you could buy either a small manila envelope, which they used to call dime bags, right? Small manila envelope that you would usually get one or two joints out of. There were seeds and stems in there, or you could buy a tie stick for $20. And the tie stick literally was a wooden stick with weed with just like a small little thread just kind of like wrapped around it, almost like a like a brajole, the way we wrap brajole when we make it when we make brajole in Italian cooking, right? You wrap it with a string, right? So I and I I remember hearing that these were dipped, that they would take they take the buds on the stick and dip it in something like oil or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

Whatever it is, that's no way they can make oil down here because they you there's no hydrocarbon in the country, right? There's no ethanol, from what we understand, because you're not allowed to make technically make extracts, it's not considered medical, it's considered drugs. And uh, so yeah, they don't do that kind of stuff. They don't do it's like, for instance, I was looking for gummies, and it was like really difficult to find them. And then I found a couple shops that had them, you know, and but they were like really, really strong, they were like 50 milligrams per per gummy, you know? And I was like, you know, I'm not really looking for that kind of feel right now. But I broke it.

SPEAKER_06 34:57

They're like, cut them in half, cut them in half. That's what they said to me in Michigan. I was like, I don't want to cut them in half. I want a gummy that's just 10 milligrams, and then I and then I can't even they were out of them.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

So the other thing is these people have to pay the police, which I thought was interesting. Um, on the medical side for the shops right now. Um, because as I said, I was explained to you know, there's no gangs, right? It's you know, you deal with it by block by block, kind of how New York used to deal with it. Um but yeah, learning really cool learning experience. Those of you that are out there listening, it's it's it's more to come as we come back here more and more. This is the first trip of many, and we're just kind of here doing a lot of uh you know, kissing babies and shaking hands and making sure the equipment runs.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

And you know, hash ambassador.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

I'm trying trying to do it for us, boys. I'm out here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Hey Colin, guess who I uh Marcus let Marcus let me send the link over to Israel Gasparin from Zentrella. So I think he's gonna join us here in just a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 36:09

How awesome. Hello. When have I not let you? You're like Marcus let me. Like I'm like this strict fucking like hash church guy, keeping the thing on lockdown. Listen, Dr. Mark, with all your fucking people you want to invite. I have never not allowed anyone you guys want to invite, I am down.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Well, there's the Canadian, there's the Canadian connection, which is really cool. And then, like I was saying before, when I took a screenshot from CanMed last year and sent it over to Colin, Colin's like, that's my product, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Yeah, buddy. Nice. How's the new product, by the way, that I gave you, man? That that new product is is is I would say probably four or five to ten steps above that last product that I put up.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

You're talking about the super boots. Oh my god, I don't even have that with me. I have it upstairs. Uh I'm with the Gigi. That's my Father's Day gift for later, uh, later tonight. I can't wait to enjoy it. But we did I did unveil your your your pen right here on Hash Church. Everybody saw it, right? Right. So representing. And uh it was so cool to introduce you to Israel the other night at dinner, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:25

It felt really cool to be there with you all, and and you know, it's a really different event than any of the events I've been to, you know, it just in terms of your looking and or or and feeling uh all the knowledge and all of the just deep, deep seed research that is happening, and just by conversation, you just get to hear fragments of things that you just don't hear otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Yeah, you know, I again I was in I was probably more in the medical and the the the doctor room. You were probably more in the cultivation room, so I kind of gave everybody kind of like a flavor of like you know, we saw the doctors, we saw Sue Sisley and you know, Stacey Gruber and Bonnie Goldstein and Ethan Russo and and Dustin Sulak. Dustin is fucking amazing, dude. He is the guru in our community. I I'm convinced I had this vision the other night after Megan put a few drops on my hand um of Dustin. You know, he's just he when he he usually carries his hair in a ponytail, and it's hard to tell that he's a long hair, but man, at at CanMed, he just let that freak flag fly. And I had this vision of him being this guru because he was doing this yoga session, and it's like, yeah, it it totally, it totally made for full full I was jealous of that that that session, man.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

I was walking out with my coffee to the to like just look at the beach, and I saw him doing his yoga session. I was like, damn, I should have linked with him last night, and I didn't realize he was this is this is that kind of party, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

He's he's an amazing guy, and when he speaks and he he relates his patient um case stories, you can't help but being in awe that this plant is real medicine and it really is affecting these people in a way that we're we're so lucky, Colin, to have that interface with these doctors because unlike you and me, these doctors see patients every day, right? And they're not tip your typical weed consumers, and so to me, it's like they they are the real pioneers. Sue Sisley is my freaking hero. I mean, she sued the government because of moldy weed from University of Mississippi. I mean, just huge. She she came to the conference with a a dog, a support dog, and the dog's name was JD, and it was a really cool dog that she had up on stage during her thing. But hey, what did I miss over in the cultivation talk? So, what was the what were some of the cultivation talks about? Because I was over in the other session listening to the doctors.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Okay, so Kevin McKernan broke the internet with LIDAR, first of all. Let's just talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah, so what is that?

SPEAKER_03 40:13

So lidar is um he took uh basically Cantapedia and his QPCR assay and jan and had Claude design a AI um backend that allows his QPCR to be run and stacked on top of itself. So it could be run and then stacked and then run and run and run and run, and it takes only two hours to get the results versus you know days, you know, and the cost of this is far greater or far less than anything that we've ever seen before. So what we're able to do is from a genetic genomic research point of view, we're able to skip steps that we were we were or skip steps essentially that were holding us back using LIDAR because the processing time was so long.

SPEAKER_06 41:06

Well, there it is in a nutshell. Everything's gonna be speeding up. It's like humanity's mission is to hack time or discover God, which must be the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

It's pretty I I literally was in tears, guys. Sorry, I'm just gonna grab something. I was honestly, because I've been I've been working with Kevin on on just sequencing a lot of the cuts that I've had just because I'm trying to understand everything about them. And when he unveiled this man, I almost was in tears because it's you know how long this shit takes? It's nuts.

SPEAKER_06 41:39

Dude, look in in six months to a year, he'll be unveiling something that is gonna speed it up another 500x.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

I yeah, and it's it's so um just the way he presented it was so humble, and like I was just like in the middle of it, I just started clapping, and like and then every the whole room started clapping. I just was like, what do we does anyone understand what just happened? Like he just broke the world in half and then put it back together and found a faster way to do it, you know. And it's you know, it's it's I couldn't believe it. So I really think can't, you know, and then also um so is is is it a kit?

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Is it a is it a is it's a part of the kit disposable, is it a usable?

SPEAKER_03 42:21

So what what what's let me go into my my notes here and just so I can talk about it better. Um I'm like forgive me guys, it's like 11 37 p.m. at night here, and I'm about to go out. Um, so yeah, it's about to get wild here. I'm gonna go I'm bringing a camera with me. I'm just gonna start, I'm gonna shoot. I'm gonna shoot some wild all kinds of stuff. Uh I brought a camera with me. So here, let me get my notes, photos. Yeah, let me get the photos too.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Uh so these are screenshots of Kevin's talk that he gave.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Yeah, I just wanted to kind of go in and and just kind of read some of the stuff that I I felt like um was really exciting. So um so lidar is longitudinal identification via decenching of amplified reports. Um so the a primer probe um that turns five color PC uh QPC. Okay, wait, wait, wait, stop, stop, stop what what's what's a primer?

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Our audience doesn't I know what a primer is, but what's a primer?

SPEAKER_03 43:31

You're gonna have to explain the primer. That's the okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

So a primer is a is a sequence of DNA, right?

unknown 43:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

That basically is at the front end of coding for a particular enzyme or protein. Okay. Correct.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

So what was okay, so this I'll go off that. So what was what is unique to this is that before it was all one color. Okay, as you know, Dr. Marks. Very difficult to differentiate what is there.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

What can we say one color, you're talking about what a type. Technician would be reading on a graph. And that would determine whether or not there's a pathogen in plant material, right? Okay. Just tie it back to the plant. Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Yeah, love that. Yeah, that exactly. So why that's really important to the audience here, guys, and this is suit you should really pay attention to what we're about to explain here, because we basically been essentially we've been looking in black and white the whole time. We've never had color ever. Okay. We we don't know um from line to line what it may be. Um and that's why testing generalizes as well. Like they don't know what strain of Aspergillus it is, right? Due to that. What Kevin's done is took five-color QPCR and he's he's hybridized that and turned it into five-color QPCR. And now it's multi-den but uh multidimensional and multiplex in a multiplex platform. So now what that means is that everything can be color-coded all the way down on the craft on the graph, and you can then differentiate line by line what it actually is. That's never been done before ever, from what I understand. So um LIDAR unifies the two flavors of QPCR. Okay. There's S Y B R.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Okay, hold on, hold on. Just make sure our audience is with us.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

I want I want you to go in. This is your land, so I want you to go to the city.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Yeah, this is a great one-two punch here, right? So I'll give this the QPCR is called quantitative uh polymerase chain reaction, which was a uh uh uh a really revolutionary technology that enabled uh from a DNA fragment to be able to the polymerase chain reaction basically grows DNA that basically is be able to construct a full DNA construct from just smaller fragments. So that's what PCR allows in a very quick nutshell. I may not have gotten entirely right, but it's close to that. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 45:59

Yeah, so um, and then I'm just gonna go back to it. So um S Y Br plus HRM, um, interlay uh interlacing die, right? That's the melt curve identity, the TM, right? That's one color and it dimmers, it's and dimmers counted, right? So it's it's just one color. What he's done is through hydrolysis probes, he's created a Tacman, which is a multidimensional color system. It sequences specific multiplex you know problems, and it it's a it's a probe that can is consumed and is not melted. Okay, so what that means is that it's not a blend of one color, it's a it's a spread of many colors, and it has a spread of of just a ton of different colors that allows you to understand the different things that are in the graph, whether it might be microbes, right? Whether it might be you know things in the rhizosphere. That's another thing that they've been doing over there, and they unveiled is that you can now see you know what's going on in the root system, all the pathogens that might be there, what they are, and then line by line and color code coding them as well.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Yeah, so it in the older technology, which is just monochromatic, you're just looking at whether or not it's it's either really dark or really light, right? So that's just sort of one one-dimensional analysis. This now takes us into a new dimension, right? Because now we can not only look at the color intensity, right? Which by polymerase chain reaction basically tells you how much of the material is there, but now we could use different colors for different different different fragments of DNA or different different species, right? Yeah, I just think you a way to speciate, it gives you a way to speciate if that's really a word. I don't even know if it's a word, but the genotype.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

Well, no, it what it allows you to do is it it helps with the light art, it helps with the genotyping, right? It also you know what I mean. It it allows us to understand. That's the other thing that is so exciting is like you're you're now skipping and and jumping, and you're actually able to understand exactly what it is by using color, which is extremely you know useful. So I'm I'm I'm really thrilled with this thing. I think it's super cool. Um the yeah, there you go. Um the AI vibe coding primer. Um, and he did this in 24 hours, man. Like, look at this. This is just so cool.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

So can so what are we looking at there? So can you put that back up again?

SPEAKER_03 48:47

Yep, I love the timing.

SPEAKER_06 48:49

You want to put it up, Colin, or you want me to put it back up?

SPEAKER_03 48:51

I can't, I don't know. I try I was trying to put it up, that's why I sent it over to you, brother. Okay. Yeah, I can't. I just I'm like on my phone trying to find um and then he also uh updated the um the cantipedia as well, which I thought was cool.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

So what does that what what does that readout with the different humps, the blue and the yellow humps mean? What what does that mean? So those are um predicted HR.

SPEAKER_06 49:22

Melt peaks, bro. You don't recognize the melt peaks.

SPEAKER_03 49:26

Those are two. That's what the melt, the new melt peaks now look like that, because you're now color coding them, right? And you can see the differentiation between them. Before you wouldn't able, you would would never have been able to see that. And that's the new candypedia. He also um I took some video of him scrolling through it just because I thought it was just you know, phylos on steroids kind of thing.

SPEAKER_06 49:52

Uh, remember the drama that phylos caused in the community? That was wild, dude.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

So yeah, and you know what? Ash uh Alicia would did a did a great presentation on um genetic markers for resin production. Um I thought that was a really cool um presentation. You know, I I tried to tee it up for her to try to explain to the the audience like why is it different than buying a 10 pack from like some you know random breeder? Um because I think what the work that they're doing is interesting. I don't I don't really know enough about it to really comment on about the genetic quality, like the quality of the work. But um I think what they're doing is interesting, and I think it does push the idea that we can maybe much like you know, um Dr. Mark Lewis has identified the the particular markers for for high tech, we're now doing that for for um for glandulotrichome development, which I think is really interesting and uh kind of something I know all of us have thought about, but you know, it's kind of like that future science stuff uh that you don't know how you quite get to, you know. And I think that she's really, you know, giving her flowers here, you know, Alicia's really done the work, and you know, regardless of what happened at Phylos, I think that they've continued to be good stewards for the idea of science within you know a mess of confusion. And I I kind of handed to them when they presented this. I was a little like, oh no, another another solventless bandwagon person, you know, like I really did feel that, but I also felt compelled to understand what they're actually doing and respect it in a way that is just real. You know, I think that they're doing work that most people are quite frankly afraid of doing. And I I I commend them for doing that, you know.

SPEAKER_06 51:46

Well, it's definitely important work. I mean, a lot of companies, a lot of solventless companies in particular will not survive because they don't find the right genetic to build their company around. Yeah. Especially the ones that aren't into covering, you know. Although I will say, after the last, you know, five plus years of talking about it, I see it more and more. But you know, there's still a ton of solventless brands that stand alone on either live hash rosin just or maybe live hash rosin all in ones and and bubble hash, which is very difficult to do when you're not gonna cover that whole gamut of you know the traditional hashes and all those other hashes that uh are not the rocket ship to ride to the moon. So college.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Let me ask so so so from what you I think you just mentioned, but I just want to clarify this maybe for me and both the audience. So there are genetic markers for good varieties that wash. Is that is that is that what you're saying? Correct.

SPEAKER_03 52:50

Yeah, well, within the genome, I I believe, you know, what she's done is she's identified the region that of interest, and she's really been been focusing on um on trying to exploit that, you know, for for her work, you know, and she's got a few varietals that she's done it with that are showing promise in terms of of yield. You know, the graphs that she showed were pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Yeah, I mean that that's really interesting. So what you're saying is that at the genetic level, they could basically determine perhaps maybe how brittle the head structure could be at the top of the trichome, or maybe like or elongated, elongated stock, you know, isn't it? Elongated stock, and now mechanically, mechanically, that trichome is very susceptible to to basically hashing.

SPEAKER_03 53:42

Not not always though. She brought up a great point. It's it's the where the the head the head meets the cuticle, like right at that point.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

I I can't remember the technical term for what that is right now, but it's uh stipe cell the stipe cells are the cells right at the bottom of the um trichom where a lot of the biochemistry is happening to release to fill the trichome, right?

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Right. So exactly. So the that that area, if it if not all plants, even with long stalks, will will break off, right? And I think Marcus knows this, we all know this. The stock will come with it. So it's identify it's not just identifying the things that make it grow large and you know, get there and have it be appear there, it's also going the step to understanding do the heads break off, or does the whole cuticle break off with it? And why? You know, and and I think that's where she's kind of honing in on. And I I thought I just thought it was super interesting because these are things I think about a lot. You know, I I you know, these are the macro thoughts in my brain that she's exploiting and doing research on, right? Which I think is extremely cool. Um, because I don't know enough. I told I went over here and I was like, look, I don't know what you're doing because this is just so above me. I'll be real with you. Um, but these are things I think about a lot and I just don't understand it, but I I just love that you do, you know, and I think there's there's something here that you should be continuing to push on. And I told her, I was like, is there anything I can do to ever help you? Just please reach out because this is this is just so important, you know?

SPEAKER_06 55:18

Um we gotta we gotta make sure though, and this is very important as well, the same way we kind of didn't during prohibition when it was really all about like how much can I get and how fast can I get it? So, what amount of biomass can I grow, and in what amount of time, shorter the better, can I grow it in? And so, whenever we're doing anything for choosing that's based on the economics more than because this is kind of the split we have right now. You have, you know, I and I think it's why guys like Mace are doing, you know, Edgar from Masonic is doing so well, because he's you know, he's not doing the work that Ryan Lee talks about doing when he comes on and does the breeding project, but that work is is it takes so long, it it's like and it's built for MSOs, it's built for large scale, whereas this smaller scale thing seems to allow flavors and profiles that maybe wouldn't exist if we only uh bred them for MSOs, you know what I mean? Like when we start choosing things for say how easy a head breaks off, does that mean those are the heads that extra excrete the most unique volatile organic compounds? Or does it really only mean they're the heads that break the easiest? Because I would want to make sure that if they broke the easiest, that it's also not simultaneously cultivars that are of less exotic volatile organic compound profiles, you know, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

Yeah, no, well, yeah, I was just gonna mention something that Tony Neg is saying in the chat, and what he said is that um stuff that washes well tends to have terpenes that are more solid at room temp.

SPEAKER_03 57:04

I've never heard that before, so I don't exactly know if that's I don't know about that, but um, because you know, again, we're talking about things that are volatile. Um, yes, and um, these are aromatics, things that are not solids, right? Yeah, they're usually liquids.

SPEAKER_06 57:19

They but they definitely have different fluidities, sesquiterpenes and monoterpenes. There are there are different levels of volatility and there are different levels of fluidity in each of those compounds.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

So think of it like this that those those terpene solutions are saturated with THCA, right? THCA is the solid, and that is what changes the viscosity of of the oil itself that's inside the trichome, right? And so the the larger amount of T THCA, the more syrupy it's gonna be, a little bit less light it's gonna be, right? Because when those terpenes are spending a lot of energy dissolving THCA, it is gonna change the viscosity. Well, and the different ones dissolve at different rates, right? Tony might have a point, but I think what he's referring to is the overall macro behavior of the oil as opposed to specifically well.

SPEAKER_06 58:09

Tony works, Tony works with a good friend of mine, Anthony, and I had Anthony on years ago. Anthony was one of the first people to crystallize C BD and make it look like Superman crystals, like not little baby ones, like giant fucking quartz clear crystals. If you guys remember me posting those pictures back in the day, and he crop he crushed uh the Colorado market with that C BD for a very long time. I and I think they're still doing it to a degree or whatnot. But uh, yeah, so Tony's legit for sure.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Check check this out. This is a this is a BBD crystal here. It's it's obviously turned color. You could see it's a little dark and everything, but it's a my it's it's a single crystal. It look look how big that is. That's I keep it just on my uh trophy cases. Yes, you can't get it out. I can't get it out, right?

SPEAKER_03 59:00

Gotta break the glass, baby.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

Gotta break the glass, and I ain't doing that. So it becomes a Christmas ornament on my shelf.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

Well, one thing I want to say is you know, look, evolution is cruel, and you know, the way that things survive is pretty cruel. So I think, yeah, I think gene editing is is you're gonna get a bunch of weird things that happen. I think that's that's the truth of it. But um, you know, I also think that you could take in my mind, I just thought about like taking some of my stuff and furthering it. I was like, damn, could we get the 13% with these like heady terps? You know, seriously, I was like thinking that in my head. I was like, oh man, like well, what if we took lemon G and she did something with that? Like all my favorite things that we can't really get yield from. Maybe there's a maybe there's a chance. You know what I mean? That was like in my head at least, you know. Um, there's a lot to dispel here, and I think that there's a lot to learn, but it's exciting for I think in general. But I do think um, you know, as I mentioned when I asked her, you know, I do think that selection is kind of the way still, you know, as excited as I am about this, I think that you still need to do the work.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

Yeah, it's just so cool to map that out versus like what what genes could be responsible for those characteristics. And obviously, whenever you're growing, I mean, anything, you know, we we've always heard about plant growth regulators, but you there's just such a wider uh class of chemicals, or let's just call them environmental insults that will either upregulate or downregulate genes, right? And so using this kind of technology, we could understand like how upregulation of those genes, I mean, maybe you could make these things just fall off just by again taking knowing that pathway and knowing that you know what's responsible for that at the protein level, because so the central paradigm of biology is that genetic information codes protein synthesis, and it's the proteins within the plants, which are the enzymes and basically the machinery that makes um the makes cannabinoids, right? All those syntheses that we talk about, those are all proteins, right? Those are all regulated by genetic mechanisms. So if we make the connection between the genes and the form and the function in the plant, we can really look to optimize for all kinds of properties. Look to see what upregulates certain genes, look to see what downregulates other genes. That's just the wonder of biology, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

Yeah, no, it's super cool. I think that's honestly, you know, for the audience out there, why I get excited about this. I think it's really just what Dr. Mark said. It's it's the proteins and understanding the pathways that you could either knock out or keep. Or I mean, imagine getting so close to that perfect varietal and then being like, Oh, I'm just gonna edit a little bit here. It's like being in the studio for me and being like, you know, this loop could be better. Let's let's cut the tail end just like a little bit, and then it's just even tighter and even doper. So, you know, it even sounds better, you know. So it's like, it's that sounds cool to me, but more to come. I'd love to see them kind of put this into practice. I'd love to try some of the work and see what's up. You know, exciting stuff. I mean, I also thought that the room that, you know, I was honestly, Dr. Mike, I was slipping into the room that you guys were in the whole time. Like, I wanted to talk back and forth.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

I saw you.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:30

Yeah, I just because I wanted to learn about the delivery and like because you know, from a product dev point of view, I'm I'm interested in understanding like what is Bonnie thinking about. And I I thought some of the stuff was pretty interesting about CBG. I thought that was really fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

Well, what one of the really interesting talks, and hey AT and how are you? We thought about you. In fact, your name came up several times when I was speaking with the the folks who did represent uh vets there. And the weed maps guy was there, and he he was unannounced, but he was on the veterans panel, and man, he just had a a ton of really good stuff to say. I forget the gentleman's name, but he was a vet who spoke on vets behalf and talked about, you know, he's one of the founders of Weed Maps, so I'm sure you might know who he is, ATN. But um, one of the more fascinating talks um that I attended, in fact, I had the pleasure of hosting this session and introducing her, was Beth Weesey from Dr. Beth Weesey from the Sidewalk Project, which is down in Los Angeles. And what they look to do is they look to serve the marginalized communities in Los Angeles, uh, sex workers, uh LGBTQ, trans people, the kind of like the lower end of society. They look to basically treat homeless people and um uh people who are really in need of cannabinoids, especially with addicts. And one of the interesting things that she's developed is they have an app that's connected to a belt that an addict would put on to monitor breathing. As you know, one of the things that's differentiates opiates from cannabis is that opiates act on central brainstem function. There are no cannabinoid receptors on the central brainstem, or else there'd probably be people from ODing from from from from cannabis. The fact that opiates basically attacks central brainstem function, it depresses your breathing. And often when an overdose happens, it's just because your breathing is just completely shut down. So, what she's developed is an app that addicts would be able to put on. And when you take methadone, again, it acts like methadone is an opiate, right? It's a replacement opiate, but it's something that still depresses the breathing beyond the point where you could basically die from the stuff that you're taking to treat your overdose. So she's developed an app that basically wires into a counselor at the other end of a phone call that can walk the attic away from that cliff, you know, and I seriously her talk brought me to tears because to know that again, she's serving the the marginalized community of Los Angeles, and she was saying during the Altadena fire that their place was actually kind of like a uh uh a place where where people could come and get food and get get showered. Um they had lots of people donating stuff. All the local dispensaries in the area donated. I think they couldn't donate THC containing products, but had a lot of CBD products. So she had vape pens and she had other uh things that were donated. But the I I said to her, I was like, oh my gosh, this is such an important thing, what you're doing here, because no one is serving that marginalized community. In this space, like the way she is, and we need to take this from the sidewalks of Los Angeles and bring it to every street in the country because this is just so important work what she's doing. And Marcus, I want to invite her onto a future hash church where maybe we talk about addiction and we talk about you know what's being done in the cannabis industry to use things that we already know can take people away from opiates. And maybe cannabis is not a replacement for opiates, but it's certainly part of the part of the the journey that I think a lot of people can make.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:33

Well, it's a tough, it's a tough one because the problem is, and I live in a city where this is a massive problem, as big of a problem as anywhere else in the world is here in Vancouver. Um, certainly not a flex or a brag, but the problem is, is what people think it is and what it is are two different things. So what they think it is, is the people on the street who are terminally ill, uh, mentally ill, homeless, and uh addicted, right? All four of those sort of uh aces they're holding in their hands. And so, but that's not what it is. What it also is, is it's the mom who got rear-ended and then went to the doctor and got prescribed these painkillers and took these painkillers until uh she wasn't gonna get any more. And that but by then now she's addicted to them, so now she's looking to find you know these. And so we get all these stories of just random people. To me, when I was growing up, like overdoses were almost exclusively people on the street, and now in Vancouver, it's just regular people, like it is not uh just people who are suffering on the street, it is people, uh everyday people. So the problem is is that people aren't just getting addicted to this on this on the streets, they're getting addicted to it through hospitals, which is terrifying. That's terrifying because that's where you go when you're hurt.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

Yeah, and it it's happening in the states too, man. This is this has been a thing. This has been a thing across the world, I think. Um, well, mainly the epider the epicenter is really Connecticut, right? And then it stemmed out from there. Um, but you know, and then in the United States specifically speaking, but it's um it's a shame, man, because you're right. And it's it's about understanding how patient access to a certain type of monomolecular substance leads to a whole world of of unknown, you know, and and and addiction. You know, it's it's pretty fucked up.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

But she it was interesting because when you when you talk to her and you hear her story, she was an addict herself, you know? And and for someone like that to go through addiction and come out on the other side, she got her PhD and did a postdoctoral study at UCLA. I mean, she's super, super intelligent and very articulate. And when you hear her story and what she's doing, I I just think that, yeah, again, there should be more people like Dr. Weesee in the world, and I think things would be things would be a lot better. And and Addicts, you're you're right. It doesn't know zip code, it doesn't know bank account. You know, when you get hooked on those farmies, it it can take you down a death spiral.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:29

Oh, it does take people down a death spiral. It's really quite a bummer when you think about it, you know. It's just a deeply sad. I just figure it's just one more extremely powerful path to possession, you know, where you're just in this demonic intelligence uh convincing you to uh that this is a good thing. I I have been very, very blessed due to how sensitive I am to things, all things. Um, it keeps me from having what I would call an addictive personality. Sugar by far is the biggest addiction I've ever had in my life, which is certainly not a light one. Um, but it is the only one that I've been like, oh wow, I'm really eating a lot of this stuff. And I've quit it cold turkey before for like years, just like I'm not gonna do that anymore. Uh, but I was never addicted to tobacco, I never got addicted to pharma, I never got addicted to coke or some or meth or any of those addictive drugs. Um, most of the alcohol, alcohol never like I just hated it from day one, which I saw tons of people that I knew get addicted to that drug, which was very unique because society doesn't see alcohol addiction as alcohol addiction, or at least it didn't 35 years ago when I first started getting exposed to it. It was uh it was different. But uh boys, I gotta jump.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:48

I love you all. Jump. I'm jumping. I'm gonna go into the town.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:53

Come on, you gotta jump. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

I jumped, I'm jumping out of here.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:00

This guy's going out to pick up toys. I know it.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:03

Uh dude, I'm bringing my lens, dude. I'm going out to shoot the debaucherous aspects of what this place is. I can't wait. All right. I'm just going to I'm grabbing my 100 mil. I'm just gonna be a sneaky, sneaky man or not there and just shoot, shoot like crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:17

You're gonna hear a lot of uh well, I won't say it actually.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:21

I'm gonna hear all kinds of stuff, dude. Yo, some of these alleyways are wild, dude.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:25

I love going in there and just like the strangest thing I heard walking by an alleyway on Cal Simon Road in Bangkok was this like faint voice from so far away, and it was like, why you fuck me and forget me, mister? I was like, what? It was like Yeah, but that's real.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:49

Everyone out there laughing about that. That's that's real. Like, that's that's why I'm going out to be an observer and just bring my camera because you know, it's things that you're gonna full observer. The thing that you see is it's kind of like New York. I I kind of I feel like that that feeling that's very busy, just like busy, and like you never know what's gonna happen when you take a left turn somewhere, right? And I I love that.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:14

It's a beautiful country, they're beautiful people, they have amazing food. It's quite a culture that goes back a very, very long time. I can't imagine being there with cannabis being legal because when I was there, cannabis was very illegal, so I had to be very, very careful.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:30

Yeah, I mean it's a trip, but it's you know, it's weird because they're like it's not it's illegal, but then I go into the shop and I buy weed, and it's like, well, how's it how the legal is this? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:41

So yeah, but Colin. Colin, happy Father's Day, happy father's day to you, happy father. And uh, I know you know you recently lost your dad, so tears to Colin's dad. Thank you, man. Call your dad today if you can.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:04

And if you can take up to Marcus's father, too, man. You know, like 20 years. Yeah. So you guys are both fathers. I'm going out. I'll post some pictures that I shoot, boys. It's it's legendary over here. Um having a lot of fun. So love you guys. Peace, everybody. Have to be safe out there. Peace.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:27

Thanks, Colin. Love y'all. Have fun. Go drink some cobra blood.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

So one more thing. Just to to wrap this whole review of the Can Med thing, Tony Neg in the chat asked about alcohol consumption because we were talking about addiction. And certainly alcohol is probably the most potent of all things that people can get addicted to. And so Jennifer Antonito, Dr. Jennifer Antonito, gave a really interesting talk about, you know, this rise in cannabis beverages and how basically maybe cannabis beverages, can cannabinoid-based beverages, can be replacement for alcohol, you know, because again, people like to put things in their mouth and they like to hold a can and they like to pour a can, they like to drink. Could you know this rise in beverages that we see in the cannabis marketplace be essentially replacement for alcohol? And I think what a wonderful study to be doing, right? Absolutely. Hello, ATN.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:37

Hello. Reading a fascinating article on cannabis and oncology nursing, reducing polypharmacy and managing symptoms. That just came out because cannabis nursing is its own specialty now. So to see that people are, you know, um pushing the boundaries of what is possible. You need nurses and doctors who are going to be brave because it's been up to us patients, right, to come forward and do anything. Now that it is a specialty in nursing, now they get to ask questions and um you know, they're looking at um seriously, you know, pain management. And they're finding, you know, cannabis does. And so they're just trying to open the discussion with their patients and have these types of discussions because just having that discussion used to be verbote in the day, and now to be able to um not only discuss cannabis, but also suggest it to patients in lieu of pain, you know, medication, uh, as well as there's a new um um medication that just came out that is, you know, cannabis-based, uh, that is for specifically for lower back that comes out of Germany. So um one of the things my group is working on is we were kind of given a um a breadcrumb by a friend of ours at the UN who referenced us to a a particular um uh book which uh put out by the uh UN that references cannabinoids three different times, and it led us to looking at the essentials medicines list, which the World Health Organization puts out. And we saw that there's no cannabis on there. Um, and so due to things like epidilex, things like this TEO1, um Exelby or whatever it's called, um there are medications out there around the world, including, you know, uh natural medications of the flowers. So uh we're gonna be working with Dr. Russo and other, uh Dr. Ethan Russo and others to um we have looked at the methodology to put things on the essentials medicine list for the world. So we're gonna look at putting uh cannabis medicines there. Um we're tired of the stupidness happening in our own country. That's why again we're working above the United States going to the world. And um this is another way. If we get certain medicines put on that essentials list, the ripples will last forever. And the you know, needless to say, they'll go out for decades because it'll be you know availability of some of these medicines and natural medicines available. So again, just another way to um chip at the system and use our voices and actions uh laid out from what how how did this happen by us continually going to the UN and engaging some of these uh actors and actresses at the higher levels and they're seeing what we're doing, and they led us to this breadcrumb trail, you know what I'm saying? So this is again by just being there, talking to people, actively engaging, you know, people will point you. Hey, there's a trail over there, you might explore it, could take you someplace pretty fucking interesting. So uh we're like, oh you know us, Veterans Action Council, action's the middle name, so we're putting action to our words still, and um yeah, big things happen this week in cannabis, right? Well, at least in the United States, there were some major ripples, one at the uh the DEA level and one at the Supreme Court level, which of course um very interesting. But the the DEA one, of course, is happening this week. What the fuck's happening, ATN? Well, the DEA is finally doing its rescheduling hearing. What's gonna happen is it's gonna get derailed in the 11th hour and 59th minute because uh Kevin Sabet and Project Sam and their cronies went to court and found a loophole. Oh shit, they found the loophole, and the loophole happens to be that, of course, this current administration fucked up. And how did they fuck up this time? Well, they did it by executive order, and because they did this by executive order, um, they didn't follow protocol, and the court is going to basically say, Hey, stop, you didn't follow protocol. So everyone acts surprised when this actually happens this week. Um, you know, oh no, oh, it's stopping all over again, which is funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:40

But AT ATN, I I saw the published list of contributors into the hearing, and they're all prohibitionists, they're all on the side, right? So basically shooting themselves in the foot because now they're not gonna be able to parade and grandstand their lies in the government record, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:19:59

Well, well, they're gonna try it again. I mean, because well, and that's how how it initially was, is uh and how I look at it is uh I I you know it's it's one last speech before their collective execution. You know, they're all been given the chance because we have applied and we're expecting to see our rejection letters probably in the mail and will arrive tomorrow. Each one of us got a rejection, and it's different sizes depending on what our situation was. However, they let all the prohibitionists go. And so when I saw that, we we laughed automatically because the DEA is going to the DEA judge, the administrative law judge, who we just got his name yesterday, is actually gonna be defending schedule three, and so all these people are gonna get up and yell and throw a temper tantrum, schedule one, schedule one, schedule two, we're gonna be hurt by schedule three. And he's gonna go, okay, everybody leave, schedule three. Thank you very much. Have a great day. So, you know, sure they get up to and have get to have their last swing at us before they miss and fall collectively out of the door. And it's it's it's comically sad, but at the same time, it's ironic that, of course, that they're going to be side railed again. So basically, what's gonna happen is the process is gonna go back to exactly what happened when Biden made the announcement. We have to go through that complete and administrative process where the DEA is gonna have to do the same thing again. Put out an invitation, we're all gonna send in our invitations, they're gonna reject them and they're gonna bring all the prohibitionists back in to have their final speech. Because again, HHS, FDA has already decided it's schedule three, regardless. Even with the situation, it will immediately be taken back for a minute and it will go back to schedule one until the actual hearings go down, and there will be all the reflexive and the reactionary. Oh no's. But the process is going to happen. It's just again, if y'all remember, said this back in 2023, it's gonna take about a four-year process for this shit to happen. So, again, we're already into the next administration. Okay, so eight.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:17

Take your time, people. In in Tom Angel's uh uh story yesterday in marijuana moment, he said something very interesting, and I'll read this. It says, Under a separate order, the acting attorney general signed an uh the upcoming hearing will consider a more comprehensibly moving uh marijuana to schedule three and ultimately de-listing or uh descheduling. So is is is there a um uh again, so like we have to kind of just go a little go with the flow here because ultimately there is a momentum that's moving towards what we all want, which is descheduling.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:57

And that's where we are what our argument is. We're arguing for schedule five at the schedule five, schedule five at the minimum, and then deschedule. That's what we have to argue because you there's no deschedule in the argument currently, so you have to follow the protocols, right? I have been doing over-the-counter cannabis sales for 27 years now. Okay, so I know and have proven it to be safe and efficacious, the wheels of society haven't fallen off, it hasn't gone crazy. So that's our argument in that sense. However, you know, the government uh will decide, and it in the end, it will immediately moves to schedule three. Now, once it moves to schedule three, the line in the sand has moved, and we can then have that further discussion of now five, because then all the prohibition are gonna be like schedule three only, you can't go past, you can't go four, you can't go five. So the argument's gonna change, and this is again strictly in the United States, but what happens in the United States has ripples worldwide. So stay tuned. Uh, due to the situation at the Supreme Court, we saw already a rewording of and the removing of medical cannabis from the form for filling out for Second Amendment for purchasing of a firearm in the United States, whereas this Supreme Court ruling has forced an outright language change, which will have to come forward. Which so it's not just medical, it's it could be adult, adult or recreational use as well. The uh Supreme Court said you have the right as a American citizen if you use cannabis to have a Second Amendment. That is what they said, and they didn't say it lightly, they said it very loudly nine to zero. That's a perfect shot grouping.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:47

But but just to clarify, there's no differentiation between medical use and uh and recreational or adult use.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:56

From the Supreme Court's viewpoint, no. So, therefore, the form will have to change to reflect that, in my opinion. Whether it does so or not, whether it has to go through the 90 or 100-day comment period, uh, I don't think so, but it potentially will because that's how it goes with everything. Because that's what's happening currently. We're we're currently in the midst of an actual verbiage change by the removal of medical marijuana. Okay. So that was already in the 90 to 100 day comment, 20-day comment period when this all went down. And then the DOJ just put out a memo uh yesterday that basically said, Oh shit, we're aware of what the Supreme Court said. We'll get right back to you. So that means there's gonna be an immediate change in the form, and that's gonna drop pretty fucking quick because the law has changed and everybody's asking that question, and every gun dealer is being is asking that question right now, too, because that has been a major stickler for years. So I don't have the complete answer, but all signs point to think of me as the magic eight ball, all signs point to.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:10

Well, you heard the prophecy here. We'll see. Uh when when will we find out this is when's the 11th hour and 45th minute gonna happen?

SPEAKER_08 1:26:18

Uh well, the the hearings in the 26th next next week. Okay, five days. So the the court, the other court case is gonna be forced to flex, right? They're gonna have to say, Oh, that has to stop because we uncovered this problem. And then Sam and and and Kevin Sabet are gonna go do their little victory lap like they actually did something, which they unfortunately have derailed the process, and they're gonna be able to show that they were able to do so. So yeah, just prepare yourselves for that, ladies and gentlemen, and again, act surprised as usual.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:52

But I think uh manufacturers and people license holders are are banking, literally banking on the 280e relief that Schedule Three is supposed to deliver. Because you know, these companies are again, uh really just some of them anyway, are struggling to get to profitability, and that 280E tax relief where they could start not uh writing off just cost of goods sold, but you know, all of business related expenses can really be a a huge boon for them.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:28

Well, it makes no sense to not be able to deduct that's just like mean and hateful. It's just like we're just gonna we're just gonna have to do it. We'll make up we'll make up a complete and total rule for this group of people, which is I'll be honest, it's kind of what Canada did instead of like lowering um the drug schedule of cannabis. We just created an entirely separate federal framework and wrote the cannabis act. And that's how we went about getting cannabis federally. Legalized, we didn't like low because it was like we were also locked into this fucking 1967 peace treaty thing, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:28:10

Well, you are, but you also had a whole bunch of Canadians bunch launch a whole bunch of cases against the Canadian government, which I was one of them, right? Which forced the Canadian government to combine them into one case and to say, okay, we gotta look at this shit for real. And y'all won because you were right. And unfortunately, we looked at that doing that here in the United States, but it would take way too long. And that's and all the people we've talked to are constitutionalists feel that there's what would happen administratively beforehand. So that's why we never went there. But of course, that was five years ago. They said it would take 12 years, and two constitutional lawyers, and another six lawyers behind them, and about you know, a couple of million dollars at that time, right? That's what it takes.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:58

But that's only at 250 an hour.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:01

Right, right, right, right. Well, no, no, 225. They gave us the bro deal. Bro deal. You know, so I was amazed. Yeah, so you know, lawyers are your biggest expense, and these that 280 thing. I mean, I spent seven years fighting my my 280 case, and I ended up winning, but I had to do that by you know, settling and going through offering compromise and you know, all kinds of things you don't want to have to learn about, ladies and gentlemen. And I spent millions on lawyers again, you know, because that's what it costs to fight the system. Everybody says, fight, fight, fight. It costs money to fight, and every single one. And like I said, 22 of 26 years fighting legal fights. So your lawyers are always and have always been my biggest expense.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:52

Well, we're the only group, too, that basically like took away our own funding. It's like we need to get cannabis legal. It's like, but that's how we fund everything. Well, and once they're illegal, we won't be able to make this will be fine. They never thought they'd tax us to death. Yeah, 48% later. They just added a 24% tax to the Michigan 24, just on top of all the tax.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:15

It ruined a perfectly happy, smooth system, right? They happily sabotaged it willfully, literally threw the monkey wrench right in, which makes no sense to any of us.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:26

No sense, it's a bummer. It it doesn't make any sense at all, and it discourages people from from going to the dispensary because they know that they're getting fleeced on tax. It just I I don't get it, and it cuts into their um the margins of those businesses, and yeah, you know, I have a headache as it is, you know.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:46

When you pay all your benefits, you pay all the things, all the taxes that you legally have to pay, and your margins are thin as it is, and then you you you tax them a few four percent, and then next thing you know, you're actively in the negative.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:02

Very you're out of business, you're out of business, you're out of business, and watch the same thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:31:07

It's happened in California, and watch it's gonna happen in Michigan because there were mom and pop stores that were able to really fine-thread this situation, and that type of taxation automatically kicks them right the fuck out. And all the years and hard work that they've put in uh are just sabotaged by stupidity and greed.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:27

So, ATN, help me help me belay this fear to rest that somehow, like, and I you know it's interesting if Colin would still be on, you know, Collins is again associated with one of those DEA licenses. Are are those DEA licenses going to be basically a monopolistic kind of entry into basically control the market, control pricing, control you know what people are able to buy and what people are able to consume?

SPEAKER_08 1:31:57

I've not dealt in there's currently like 10 that are in that system, and of course, that just grew exponentially. Uh, what we do know is once you do enter the system, you are then reliant only upon those suppliers and distributors within the system. You're not allowed to buy outside the system because you're now in the system. What that means is you're gonna have to, every single employee, you're gonna have to put in a background check on and actually present to the DEA every single employee you have's actual criminal record. That's just this is just from the growth through to dispensary. I mean, every every employee you have, then you're audited by the IRS. Oh, yeah, they didn't tell you that one. People are now being audited by the IRS because guess what you just admitted to on a forum? To admitting to a felony, right? Because you've been doing schedule one. Okay, so that is that every single person that's applied for the application. Going forward and all the questions that come with that.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:02

You know, the only thing I will say to be the devil's advocate is we had the exact same people who were you over here, the long time 35-year, full-blown activists, and the hardcore ones would never go legal. They fought legal tooth and nail, and legal steamrolled over all of them. And everything they said they were wrong about it. Just pummeled them. They were Chris Bennett. Listen to some of the stuff he said. It's like, dude, we all have licenses, we all have plants on our deck, we can all buy at thousands of stores, we can ship like literally Canada's medical is kind of a dream. Uh medical dash uh uh recreational. It's not it's not perfect. We still have like we have activism that's going on, that's still fighting for things. But I will say, anywhere else I go in the world, when I come back here, I'm like, holy fuck, do we have it good, dude?

SPEAKER_08 1:33:57

Like, we want to we want to see what they're going to do. There's too many unanswered questions, exactly just as I stated. If I can no longer buy from my local supply, and if all of my people are expected and are used to my local supply, I have to now get them used to a whole new supply and supply chain as well as gain the trust and the trust of products. Well, that's done locally by having the vendor or the manufacturer come out and educate the person. Well, if I'm dealing with interstate commerce because my supplier is out of fucking Oklahoma, now I have to educate them. I have to rely on the shipping. Now I have to trust that shipping's gonna make it now because on top of that, I now have, and people have already been inspected by the DEA. Once you've applied, they can come and check out your place. And people have, and they're saying it's cool. So again, I want to state for the caveat: we all want to be legal. We are not comfortable with the current roadway that's been laid out to achieve it and want more understanding and guarantees before we all decide to walk that road. Okay, because currently that road looks fucking shaky and shady as fucking hell. And you know, once we get those assurances and we can say, see, it's oh, it's a paved road, it's it's solid on on that mountain on a solid piece, then we'll we'll decide to roll there. But until we get those assurances and the DA is not giving us those assurances, and you know, my lawyer started the International Cannabis Bar Association, so she's kind of knows what the fuck's going on, and even they're all left with more questions and answers and have asked for more clarification and have not gotten them. So we met them, we'll evaluate those and move forward or decide to where to go. But currently, as it stands, it's it that road is too destructive to take this little four-wheel drive on. It's not even off-roadable.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:03

The other thing I will mention is that when things did go legal here, and then people broke the law within the legal system, people from the black market couldn't believe how relaxed the law was because they all went in with this same prohibition mentality that it was like, oh, if you get caught, you'll they'll take your life. Everyone was like, You got to protect your license, you gotta protect your license. Well, they gave up onerous and then and then companies just started growing full rooms that were non-licensed rooms next to facilities that were fully licensed. I think it was fucking Cantrust, Google Cantrust Canada, and find out about the unregistered, unlicensed giant thousand square foot room they grew like multiple crops in. They got like a slap on the wrist. I don't think they even paid a fine in the end. If they did, it was like laughable. And so I started realizing, oh my God, like my the same way when a QA comes to the Canadian regulatory system from the pharma industry and they do all this shit they don't need to. So too do a lot of the people who came from cannabis prohibition from the leap from the gray or black market, and then got involved in this market. I watched them follow the rules so stringently while big companies were just like flying loose and goosey. And I was like, how is this possible? Well, it's because your perception on the law has to change when you come from, which I can imagine from the DEA's perspective is very hard. You know, ours was Health Canada. Well, it's still the RCMP, they were still the federal police, they were still the ones kicking our doors in, putting my buddy Ron in prison for 11 years, you know, doing all this sort of heinous shit, smaller version of what you guys got going on down there. But then when it became legal, first it was licensing, and people were like, whatever you do, don't get the license. Do not apply, do not tell Health Canada. And it was the exact same thing. It was if you tell Health Canada where you live and that you grow cannabis, you will get audited by the CRA. And guaranteed, some a few some people did, but man, 99% CRA? Canadian Revenue Agency. There are IRS. Oh, you're IR. So, Marcus, let me ask a quick question. And there also are customs. It's CRA, it's Canada Customs and CRA. They're both like one entity.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:24

Okay, is is there like a 280 provision in the Canadian Revenue Code? Uh, like is is there the the equivalent of 28E here in the States in our IRS system? Is is there also that in Canada?

SPEAKER_06 1:38:40

Let me find out real quick. I doubt it because it's federally legal, we're allowed to write everything off.

SPEAKER_08 1:38:45

Right. Um time we will be able to too again, once all of these things kind of flesh themselves out. We deduct normal business.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:56

Could that be a way could uh again? I I'm just you just throwing some spaghetti at the wall here. Could that be the 280E thing, which again could be people who have medical sales and it's a medical program, be a way to basically snuff out the maybe smaller scale adult use market supply chain that provides stores like yours.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:22

The IRS does not flex 280e to to rid businesses. They will work with you on a payment scale. They want your money, they don't want your closure. Of course, they are a huge tick and they want blood. Money is their blood. They may earlier billion dollars last year, 4.9 with a B, billion dollars off of 280E. That's a lot of blood sucking that is going on, and they do not want to lose it. And we are again the lowest hanging fruit. We went from again, there were just seven of us to now over 10,000 of us. That's a lot of fucking blood. That's a lot of low-hanging fruit. You see what I'm saying? So they just want the money.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:08

The enhanced profitability that 280e relief provides to larger manufacturers be an unfair advantage to make a minimum level. Yeah. So this is a good this isn't gonna end well.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:24

It is an unfair system because those MSOs can get away with things and those deductions are a lot larger and can lower the thing. I started off at, you know, around, you know, five million, you know, and had to whittle that down to what it finally settled with them on. And that was just for one year. That's just one year of auditing. And all they did was look at my, you know, my medicine and then just tax me directly off of that. So it's not hard for them to figure and calculate. Uh, and I mean, I've been audited. Audit is audits are not painful if you do your paperwork, and I've been doing my paperwork from the beginning. So of course, it's just uncomfortable to have an you know, IRS agents, you know, going through your paperwork. It is a little unnerving just because you know, it's you're being tested and being uh in a test always is nerve-wracking going back to grade school, high school, college, etc. So, you know, uh, once you pass the test and you realize, okay, this is the situation, it's it's not that scary. So I'm not afraid of the IRS auditing me. I I'm not diverting or doing anything illegal. The the problem is the supply chain problems and the other inconsistencies that I've I can guarantee what my patients have access to. Whereas I can deal with that uncertainty. However, for the entire market to do so, I saw the numbers uh behind the scenes of the amount of people who are signing up in California, and it's very minimal because again, the distrust is there. We don't see a clear road to the other side of the bridge. When we do, we'll all take that road. But right now, some are taking that chance and are going that way. And those that are strictly medical and have that route have. So that when you apply for the DEA, it's just a medical license. Um, so again, this is a the state looking at ways and trying to figure out how to thread this needle as they're trying to figure out uh what's going on, because even them and people that I know in CANRA and others have reached out to the DEA for clarification and they're not getting answers. And I believe that's because the DEA realized they bit off more than they can chew in the timeframe that they thought they could do it. And our inherent PTSD from years of fighting the DEA to now all of a sudden now they're friendly and we have to trust them. You know, we just need a little more assurances to arrive there. We want to again arrive there. We all want to be legal. I've spent decades trying to get us legal and arrive here uh collectively. So to be at the end of the race and now be here, I just want some assurances that there will be a tape, you know, at the end of the race.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:30

I hear you. I just don't think it's an assurance that you're gonna get. I think that like I said either, but we didn't get so I'll have to navigate it. We didn't get it either, but what what we did get was legal cannabis on a federal level, so we were kind of like it pissed off a lot of activists that they saw it happening a very specific way. And we've had I've had good friends on the show, Dragonfly Earth Medicine are two of those people that don't want to be a part of the legal, federally legal, you know, system that's actively, you know, the cannabis scene. And to me, I pivoted with it because I didn't want to be left behind. Now, what I didn't do, which 90% of people did do when when medical license came in in Canada, and everyone was like, Don't get that license, don't get that license. It literally did nothing. People got licenses, and suddenly they were literally not only did they feel protected, but really at the same time, all that funding that had been given to the police, even the DEA funding, it disappeared, it was gone. There was no more funding, there was no more money to do that. So the police were obviously not actively like I've had a license on my wall since 2014, I think that license is so 12 years, and I've never had anyone come and check my plant count. I've never had anyone now. I am in a unique situation in the sense that when I got said medical license, I was probably one of like uh two people that I knew that was not actively uh growing, drying, and selling all of their flour under their medical license into the black market. So these were the very people, the very activists, the very people that wanted it to be legal a very certain way, were in my opinion doing a great disservice to the system because it was like, look, do not use patients as a shield to protect yourself so you can sell your weed and make money. That's not that's that is the opposite of what this is supposed to be doing. Now, did I go get a medical license? Uh because A, I could have one, yes. And B because it protected me from getting in trouble. Absolutely. The part I didn't do was was sell the cannabis. I just used it to make hash and and smoke myself. Now that's no judgment. Uh it I'm glad I didn't do it. A lot of my friends did it, and I was like, hey, you know what? You got to do what you got to do. Looking back, it didn't work out great for patients in the end. The whole medical system, you know, everyone uses medical right up until recreational blows the doors open. And when rec doors blow open, it's very, very hard for medical to survive. It really is. Um, even with the exorbitant taxes that we also pay, because we have like a 10% tax or a one dollar. They thought it would be one dollar, you know, it's always the one that's the highest. So if it's not 10%, if 10% only equals 70 cents tax, then it's the one dollar like per gram. Well, they thought we were going to sell flour for three or four dollars a gram. Well, now we sell it for like less than a dollar. So it becomes a massive tax. It's not perfect up here by any means, but I will say that no matter how it happens, if people stop getting arrested and stop getting in trouble and stuff, like then I am here for it. And I Sam's words always resonate in my mind. He's like, I don't care who profits from it. I just don't want people to get in trouble for it. And I want them to have access. So until I have access of going and buying full melt, dry sift, static, bubble, whatever, jars of haze, static sift, until that day is here, I will say we still have work to do. Uh in Canada, at least, obviously, as long as people are being executed, we'll always have work to do uh in regards to the work that Etienne and his team is doing. Uh, and there's lots of different countries that are at lots of different angles. I would just say that for those of you that are behind Canada in your legalization, uh, look to how it played out and talk to real people because sure there was all sorts of fuckery and mistakes and big business fuckery that occurred, but on the lowest level, people can just go buy gummies and beverages and vape pens and joints and flour and hash and extracts and fucking everything you can imagine at a store. And even me who lives in the middle of nowhere practically, I am like 10 minutes away from a cannabis store where I could go and purchase all of those products. And and I'm I know some of you will be like, Oh yeah, but is any of it even dude? I guarantee you, I could go buy flour today that is 100% smokable, enjoyable, and lovely. And the same thing with with with uh rosin. I could go buy live hash rosin right now, 10 minutes from my from my house, and it would be on par with something that's in my stash. To me, that is a massive, massive, massive success. And I hope that it plays out the same way. Um, you know, one of the reasons dates. Well, you know what? Uh just just to give you a point, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:48:27

I can go to a gas station right now and buy some toxic fucking bathtub gin fucking THCA shit that isn't regulated and could fucking harm me and kill me, but uh that's gonna stop come November, unfortunately, because there's no you know and then when that stops, and it's gonna stop only everything else in the gas station could harm you or kill you.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:52

Yeah, do you think it's really gonna stop?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:55

Wait, what I'm talking about the soda, the candy bars. I I wonder if it's gonna stop because I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:02

I it's not gonna stop, it's gonna stop it being legal, but it's not gonna stop.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:09

Right, not gonna stop. But kind of like the point that Moha the point that Mojave shared, I th I I I still you know uh quote Mojave on this, is that unlike previous prohibitions, there hasn't been a $50 billion industry that they're trying to snuff out. So those people, those hemp folks have deep, deep pockets. And I I I don't think we should underestimate them changing this in the 11th hour. Yeah, but what do you mean? I don't get it. Time time is running out.

SPEAKER_08 1:49:42

You're at time's running out, right? Right, you're at we're halfway into June. November is staring, and everybody who has again, I'm your political guy because I watch everything. Everybody who has tried to lift that ball off the ground has had it swatted out of their hands, right? And McConnell ain't running with it, and he He was their champion prior. And when you do nothing, I think isn't there a bill?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:04

Isn't there a bill right now? Uh, because there is someone at the conference. There's a bill every week, and it keeps getting dropped.

SPEAKER_08 1:50:12

That's the that I'm being real, Mark. Every other week, somebody is trying to launch something, that's what I mean by every time somebody picks up the ball, it gets swatted out of their hands. Right. That's exactly what I'm meaning, is that people are trying, and they're usually they're all obscure or you know, side senators or representatives who are trying to do this, and they're trying to build a momentum, and nobody is leaning to get grab the momentum, which means there is a there is an effort behind the scenes for it not to happen. Or something you it will happen in the 11th hour, 59th minute, and we'll see that as it happens. But right now, there is no staying of the execution.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:56

Yeah, so there was a very interesting uh discussion the other day around this whole one plant you know methodology, you know, that try to bring hemp, the the hemp side together with with the closing that farm bill.

SPEAKER_08 1:51:12

That farm bill has to come out every five years the same way with the directive of 1315. It has to be modified, and that modification is a year past, so that's what this whole thing is about.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:24

Right. So I guess all that collateral damage that you know would result in driving things to the black market or underground. So like things that are available today that qualify as full spectrum products. I mean, even like tinctures, which are below the 0.3 threshold, but they won't be in that what what's that that new threshold was what 0.4 milligrams per package?

SPEAKER_08 1:51:50

Yeah, seems to be 04 or 0.4.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:52

I think it makes a big difference. Uh I think it's 0.4 milligrams, right? So like an SQ with the with the science. Yeah, so like in a 10 milligram beverage, right? That's 10 milligrams, that would be capped at 0.4 milligrams, which is you know less than a percent. So it's like, yeah, it's it's like one of those things where it's like, I don't know, it it it becomes, yeah, like so. This notion that everything comes from the same plant, right? We all know it's cannabis, whether it's a type 3 cannabis, which has low CBD, I'm sorry, low THC or type 1 cannabis, it's all the same thing. I think that one of the things that's kind of driving the other side is the industrial applications, like the people who want to make uh laminated wood beams out of femp hemp fiber or or or um hemp crete, you know, for more quote-unquote industrial applications where you're not putting stuff into your body, right? So hemp, well, I guess hemp seed oil and and hemp seed would be would be food, but you know, again, kind of separated from growing um for cannabinoid content. And I think that's again where when we go back to the 2018 Farm Bill, I think Congress, my own personal feeling, Congress was snookered on on oil, soap, and not dope, right? And rope, I guess, you know, all the indust the real industrial applications of it. And that's again one thing that we have to take our hats off to Marcus and the folks up in Canada. They got it right, right? They knew what hemp was as opposed to drug variety cannabinoids or or cannabis, which could either be type one, type two, type three. Regardless of cannabinoid content, it's a completely different plant. You grow it in a different way, you're optimizing for canopy uh space. You you're not looking at planting those things right next to another, like row crops would for like corn or or any other grain production, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:54:02

It's true. Welcome, Caleb. Looking slick over there, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:07

Thanks. Good to be here with y'all. Love this conversation. Hey, Caleb.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:12

And shout out to CNC Packaging in the room right now. I'm so stoked. I just got one of their grammars uh at my facility down in uh southern Colorado. This thing, I as far as I know, I think it's the only one that doesn't use heat. So I can put my rosin into this thing and it pumps out grams for me, like eight to ten thousand a shift. Um, and it uh it does it with like forced air instead of like heat, which I fucking love. I'm actually surprised. So we just started, we we just got it. We're just gonna uh unbox it, and I'll definitely let everyone know what I think about it. That's a game changer. It's a kind of a game changer, dude. I mean, right now people are if you have a good employee, you're looking at 27 to 35 cents a gram cost to fill it, and this thing brings that down to like like pennies.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:06

How does it actually work, Marcus? Is it pick up a little bit and automatically sense how much it weighed?

SPEAKER_06 1:55:11

Or well, it's got it's based on volumes, so it's no heat, so it has a fill capacity of down to 0.1 ml and upwards of 3.5 mls. So, like point a point to like three millimetrams is liquid, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:55:28

So you're talking about liquid, but it's no heat, right? Throughput, you're talking about dispensing liquid, not not hat, not solid, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:55:35

Incorrect. So rosin is in between a liquid and a solid, and I'm talking about dispensing rosin. Rosin. It's not, but I will say these guys put some pretty crazy shit in here that's pretty solid, and the air is so forced that it can just punch out. So, like, say uh one ml in liquid is also one gram in a solid, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:56:01

So the they're the same weights, be a density of 1.0, just like water. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:07

So this accuracy is down to 0.02 on this thing, it's got a foot pedal for operation with a uh pneumatic cylinder, super high powered, sealed plunger system, and a vacuum lid system for for extra thick concentrates, and it's literally like 10x on the um speed of a person. It's a cool fucking unit. We'll make some videos, I'll come share it on Hash Church eventually.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:30

And all it needs is a little pump of nitrogen and a fucking seal, and it'd be literally shelf stable for I think it might have the nitrogen thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:40

I could be wrong. He's in there right now, does cold cure, butter, batter, vg, wax, etc. He's he's in the chat right now. God damn liquid and hash. They were doing like bubble hash, like Piatella they put in there because it's such a force. I know, dude. A lot of the other companies are using heat, which you would assume, but uh I'd rather grade stuff. I'd rather not get it heated up if I don't have to. Yeah, to quote Jesse Pinkman Science. He says, when you do 0.1s with the one mm dispensing tip, it brings the fill tolerance down to 0.004 ml. Fuck yeah, that's Mace just coming into the room. Mace just coming to the room, Masonic. What's going on, brother? Dude, I want to shout this fucking guy out too, man. He hooked us up recently uh with some genetics that I'm really excited to get going down in uh Colorado. We got his Star Man, uh, the OZK77 crossed with the Mango SB. We got the pink parm mango, dude. The pink parm mango and the barb burst bx. So those four are coming to a bubble man brand near you in the near future. Thanks to uh thanks to Edgar and Masonic Seeds, man. Uh I just hit him up. I was like, what's good? What's the washers? He's like, I got you. I'll send only the killers. So he sent uh he sent the killers. At any rate, Caleb is the homie. Glad to see you kicking it with Bubble Man. Okay, we will be adding nitro backfill at some point. Okay, so it's not in there yet, but it's coming. The nitro backfill. Very cool. Hey, it's a lot of time and energy when you're gramming up five or six thousand grams of rosin. It's boring work, and it's like to me, I'd rather have the the people like doing something like better. Something that I ask how much one of those one of those costs that cost is around 27 G's, 27,000, 28,000.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:48

So really if that's all in, that's with the pump and the everything. Yeah, that's the that's the system. So if you went 27,000 and you say it was costing you 27 cents, right, per gram for yourself, it would be a hundred thousand grams. So a hundred kilos, right, or two hundred and twenty pounds would be how much you need to run to get back the roi on the on the uh machine. Now keep in mind when you have a piece of equipment like this, not only are you running it for yourself to save yourself on grams, you're offering it out to toll for people when you know. If you're listening it's if you think if you're selling 10,000 grams a day, then great, use the machine to its max. But it's highly doubtful that you will need this machine for more than a day of your entire monthly output or weekly output if you're really rocking and rolling and doing 10 kgs a week. But otherwise, you can offer companies that are spending that labor with people and be able to be able to do it much, much quicker. So um, yeah, he was mentioning he is half the price of a lot of the other options on the market right now. So we'll see. I'm I'm about to uh to put this thing to the test. The next time I go to Colorado, I'll go down to the lab and we'll uh they'll have already been using it for a while, but uh we're getting ready here really soon to uh to use it. Total processing cost between 50 cents to a dollar 20, depending on the market you were in. Wow, that's crazy. I was thinking like 25 cents, but uh 50 cents is now 50 kilos, and a dollar 20 would be like I don't know, that would be like 20 or less than 20 kilos of product before you paid the ROI back on the machine for filling end capping of jars. Okay. Well, it's good. This is these are the things you gotta do in business. You gotta, you know, I remember I had some craft style guys who built an LP in Canada, and there was a couple of them, and they did great work. They were highly aware, but what they were afraid to do was hire people to do anything, and they were like, no, we have to do everything, or it won't be, you know, it won't be us anymore. And I'm like, well, of course it'll be you. You just have to set the bar and then make sure people that you hire are at that bar. But trust me, like anything you know that you think can't be shared or taught to other people, like of course it can. You just have to be willing to share that time and energy and and and sort of teach people. I taught some incredible people uh when I had embark going, I had a couple of really great guys out of the whole group that were absolutely exceptional. There's always going to be people who shine, which is in my opinion, why it's always a good idea to have interns and try people out for a little while before you just hire people like and commit. It's a much better idea to get the interns, give them a week at a time, you know, run run through cycles of four every month, uh, and hand pick the ones that kind of stand out because the ones that stand out to me from a hash maker's perspective, and maybe this will be a gem, maybe it won't, are people that A, of course, I'm gonna show you everything, and I'm gonna I'm gonna want you to read my SOPs first. And then when you before you go into my lab, I'm gonna test you on my SOPs to see how well you read them. And then once we're in the lab, you know, I'm going to probably allow you to do what you want to do within reason the first time, and I'll audit that and see what you listened to and what you didn't. And then after that, it'll be like direction for the next three or four batches. And some people are just so good at it that you're just like, oh my God, I want to hire a hundred of these people. But unfortunately, you only get one of those people out of about 10 or 20 uh people that you hire. So definitely worth checking out. I like people after a while that I don't have to tell what to do. I like people that clean when they have nothing else to do because the hash lab is a very dirty place that is consistently requiring cleaning, whether it's uh getting down on your hands and knees and scrubbing the floor because people get lazy and the hash, once the hash falls onto the floor and you step on it, it is a nightmare for real. Anyway, I don't know how I ended up on that. Uh oh, yeah, we were talking about the CNC packaging unit. That's right. I'm super excited to play with this thing. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:09

Like it's uh Did I ask CNC a question? Of course, he's in the chat. Yeah, so so this isn't specific for ROS. And I mean, can we use this for 100% sauce and diamonds and everything, dude? For for non-homogeneous extracts, you know, what we always used to like to see with good BHO product is yeah, there's it's great to have solid in there with some diamonds, but a little bit of sauce. So, how does it deal with like non-homogeneous mixtures? I'm gonna send him the link. Yeah, and Marcus, hey, I just heard from Israel, he's gonna be joining us in a few minutes. Amazing. Uh, the fellow from Zentrella. So I'll put up the link in our chat.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:51

Yeah, because I'll uh and then I'll so no diamonds. Sorry, no diamonds. Okay, no diamonds, no non-homogenous products.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:59

Ah, okay. So so if you it obviously uh one of the things that Kindbil was noted for was doing the whole whip thing, right? And so making kind of like a moose or the sort of Piatella version of BHO. So I'm sure that would work.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:14

I would say yes, because it comes out looking like uh almost a moose. And the other thing, because it's forced air, the pressure of it seems to like naturally coat it in like terpenes on the outside of the when it comes out, it just looks really nice. Like it's there's something about it for sure. Yeah, the materials need to be to a bit of a whip and must stay homogenous for the time in the machine.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:42

Yeah, so um who's gonna come on soon? He's just uh I like a cut couple minutes, is a fellow by the name of Israel Gaspar, and I'll I'll let him introduce himself when he comes on. But yeah, I think Bingo just put a uh a thing in the chat about Zentrella. It's really fascinating stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:00

Really can't wait to hear him talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:02

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So back to the packaging, just for a question. So um, you know, being able to inert with nitrogen is a really important thing. It's the reason why they put nitrogen back into bags of potato chips, right? Because the oil that potato chips are are fried in will go rancid if it comes comes in contact with air. So, yeah, it almost should be a standard protocol for whenever you're jarring anything to blanket with a pad of nitrogen over the top before you know sealing the jar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:38

I think that for preserving personally, when it comes to cannabinoids and volatile organic compounds, um it's cold supply chain all the way. Cold supply chain, cold supply chain, cold supply chain. And what I found myself in the middle of right now is this very unique tension of the preservation of live hash raws and full melt bubbles and full melt dry sifts. Uh, and then on the other side, the curing of all of the different traditional hashes that I've been playing around with for the last couple of years. And they are so, so, so, so very different. In the sense, you have one that tends to be a very, very simple um collection of volatile organic compounds in traditional hash. The majority of them are volatizing out, and you're left with, of course, beta-caryophylline, which we know as the terpene, sesquiterpenoid that that sticks, that that transfers, that stays in the bag. It's there's a reason why drug dogs were tested, uh uh trained on this terpene or sesquiterpene terpenoid because of how just rank and and it's it's also that peppery. It's that very well-known hash-ish, peppery flavor. Whereas new age hashes, well, they have all of these super unique monoterpenes that we used to volatize out. We'd cure them out by leaving the flour out and allowing them to sort of dissipate. They're more caustic, they're a little more harsh on the throat. But when we preserve them, we get that full feeling that we expect from full mount bubble or live hash rosin. When they start to cure out and they get that skin on the rosin, these are things that people are not really stoked on. Whereas when we get that skin on the traditional hash, this one's getting really thick now. This skin is thick, it's still very soft. You can like see how it just cracked as I just pushed it a little bit. This is that uh eight-month-old neon sunshine uh traditional hash. It's got such an incredible smell to it. And I know when I cut this one open, I was waiting for a year. Oh, yeah, put a little of that in your pipe, Etienne. I was waiting to get to one year, maybe at the one year day, I believe it's in September, we could smoke some of this in a chill-um and a whole variety of different ways. So very different things, these traditional hashes versus you know, traditional hash, I like to leave at room temperature. I like it to age, and I like when I cut it open to see how well did the skin on the internal component uh how well did the skin on the outside preserve that nice gooey hash on the inside. Israel Gasparin entering the waiting room. Nice, yes. Now, how would that hash do in the grammar? That hash, I don't know. It's pretty soft. I did see him spit out hash that looked about that hard, which blew my mind. I didn't even believe it, but we'd have to ask uh him to in regards to that direct. I I invited him.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:49

I'm excited that Israel can join us today. Hi, Israel. Can you hear us?

SPEAKER_00 2:08:54

Absolutely. Hello, Mark. Thank you so much for the unexpected but very nice invitation.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:00

Yes, well, introduce yourself, please, to this wonderful community of Hash Church.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:06

Absolutely, hello everyone. Um, Israel Gasperin here. I am the founder and engineering scientist of a neurotech company. We basically do brain scans to objectively measure cannabis effects so we can more clearly and credibly show the effects that has on the consumer. And in that way help innovative brands uh showcase what they are designing for the market and whether the unique values or benefits that they deliver to the consumer.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:40

An actual visual of how high you're getting.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:45

Exactly, exactly, Marcus. It's uh the the EES can help us to understand uh how high you are getting, uh what type of high you are experiencing. Are you feeling more relaxed or energized? Whether is it inducing a positive mood effect? And if so, how much is it helping to reduce anxiety levels or is it too strong or whatever that is making people feel more anxious? And in that way we can measure multiple other mental states that uh I have a quick presentation.

SPEAKER_06 2:10:22

If you please, yeah, before you start your presentation, though, I do want to ask you one question in regards to this. So, are are you guys have you yet began to identify the types of highs, or are you slowly aggregating that data as you run more people through the EEG and noticing, oh, this isn't is a spot that keeps going, so we'll associate that with the anxiety. This one, okay, so that's amazing. When you nail that, you are going to change the face of cannabis competitions forever because we'll just hook up to the EEG and be like, all right, let's see who gets let's see which one gets us the most.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:59

Show us the data, show us the data. Scientists need data. Israel, I hope you you incorporate in your story the the the genesis of the company because I want to know how grateful we should all be to the government of Canada for funding your work.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:17

Hello, Canadians. See, I told you there's good Canadians.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:21

We love Canadians, go ahead, Israel.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:24

Please like a quick presentation. Can can I can I uh um no, only I can.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:29

No, I'm just joking. I let you. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:34

Okay, perfect. Uh doesn't seem worse.

SPEAKER_06 2:11:37

Man, I would have loved to have had this thing on my head when I first smoked Skunk Man Sam's hash because uh still to this day I thought, like, what is going on? How could something be so strong that you're worried about shitting your pants one second after smoking it? I wonder what that would do on the EEG.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:57

That'd be interesting.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:00

Even better is when you you put the put that then on him when you smoke your hash with him.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:06

Yeah, of course. Of course. I would have loved to see what that would have come up with.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:13

I see it's black, but it hasn't it hasn't opened for me yet. That's that's a long second though.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:23

It should have worked. I I said allow right away, so it should uh might have to stop and and try again, or you might have to come go out of the room and come again. Sometimes people will restart their browser or something. So we'll get it going though. We are the ultimate at uh troubleshooting here on Hash Church. Well, I cleaned the Quave banger. I called it the Quave Banger today, Etienne, so I think I'm gonna call it Quave from now on. It sounds French and fancy.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:58

I love the Quave. Even worse.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:00

Yes, this is my Quave banger, thanks to the Quave Bang Club.

SPEAKER_08 2:13:05

People would call me Etienne, you know, because of the E on the end.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:09

Like God stop. Alright, Israel's back. Let's see what he's got. This is interesting. I really want to see this presentation. Ditto, man.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:21

Right.

unknown 2:13:22

Ditto.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:23

Welcome back, Israel.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:24

Thank you guys.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:25

So you're in Toronto?

SPEAKER_00 2:13:27

Uh Hamilton.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:28

It's he flew into Toronto. I'm sorry. Yes. He flew into Toronto, but he's from Hamilton. Boy, are his arms tired.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:38

Yeah, that's a little that's a big flight to be flapping your arms for that long. Yeah, I think it's a long trip. Now he's frozen. What's going on? Yeah, he's frozen.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:49

What's going on?

SPEAKER_06 2:13:51

Don't worry. Did you restart your browser? You might have to come out, restart everything, and come back in. We'll be here for you. We got that.

SPEAKER_08 2:14:00

We want to see. We want to see. Somebody put it in the chat Rico Glave.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:06

Oh, Rico Glave. I'm gonna smoke some Rico Clave because I have full mouth on this wonderful Father's Day. I'm smashing out this please wash me. I cannot tell you how good this tastes and smells. It is absurd. Tell me it doesn't make your water your mouth. It was washed.

SPEAKER_08 2:14:26

So how I mean it's dichotomy in its name.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:31

It was. It's please wash me, and now it should be called called thank you for washing me. Washed well. Yeah. Washed right. Actually, I like well better. Oh now we got two Israels. Perfect. Two's better than one. You have a free Palestine? No, sorry.

SPEAKER_08 2:14:55

That's a different Israel. I know, I'm being silly.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:00

Someone did indeed wash her. Yes, bingo, someone did. Looks Fugenfire. It is Fugenfire. I think this hash is soft enough that the grammar could gram this shit out. But you just have to whip it a little bit, I guess, first.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:18

Okay, let's see.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:19

Oh, give it a go. Give it a go. Come on, work. There's no reason for this not to work. Like, I have absolutely given you permission.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:29

It's the gremlins.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:31

No, but we need we need this presentation, Dr. Mark. Double click. Israel Gaspar Gasparin has start started screen sharing. Double click to enter full screen mode. Alright, so I double-clicked it. See shit. Just stays black. Do you guys see anything?

SPEAKER_08 2:15:51

Negative. I got a black screen too. It says it started to share. Double click to enter full screen mode. But uh yeah, no. But nothing happens. No black screen.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:04

Or maybe I'll try a different browser. Maybe that's the issue of yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 2:16:08

Try a different browser. Yeah, try a different browser. Chrome seems to work fine.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:14

I am in full screen mode, so that worked.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:19

I went to full screen mode, but it's all black. Um all right, so yeah, stop sharing that one if you can and go into a new one. And then I'm gonna smash out another bowl of the fullest of the fullest amount. I love it because it doesn't chaz bad. It's just liquid I can scoop up, which is really that's that's six star, you know. Plus, it's nice to smoke flags.

SPEAKER_08 2:16:44

And remember, don't fuck up new shit. You won't end up being named after what you do to something. Because when you said Chaz, I was like, oh, poor Chaz still has to live with the shame of actually being named after fucking up a banger. That's sometimes you have a yarn life. Sometimes you're an example of how not to be.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:07

True. I will say when Brett Maverick told that story on Hash Church, I laughed my ass off. I think it was hilarious. His roommate, right? Chaz.

SPEAKER_08 2:17:18

Yeah, what happened to Brett?

SPEAKER_06 2:17:21

You know, over and over and over and over again, and I hope it's wrong, I heard drug overdose. Hopefully, it was not the case. I remember we thought Indra was gone, and then he came on Hash Church and said, Stop telling people I'm dead, which was amazing, because it was his son who told me that he had passed away. I'm like, dude, it was your son. I thought it was a pretty good source.

SPEAKER_08 2:17:48

Yeah, nine times out of ten times coming from the sun is a source.

SPEAKER_06 2:17:54

That's what I thought. I'd even go as far as nine times.

SPEAKER_08 2:17:57

Apparently, you hit that one out of ten just because you're lucky like that.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:00

Well, apparently it was the mess.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:04

Okay, now we just see Israel.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:07

I only see a black screen. I see the black screen still.

SPEAKER_08 2:18:11

I see a black screen.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:12

He started it. So if you can stop screen sharing, try to start it again. Or I can stop put stop you from oh, there you go. Perfect. I feel bad.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:21

Well, the the other thing is he didn't have to leave. Uh, I just texted him and said he could he could uh email me the presentation and I could share it on my screen and just click through it as he problem with your screen is I think you still don't show up when you talk.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:37

Let me give that a test. Say something. Four score and seven years ago, our forefathers that no, you work all the time at Tampa. I feel like a half church or two ago, and I don't know if it was on my laptop or here. Doctor, there he is, he showed up. Holy shit. Okay, so for the longest time, Dr. Mark, and I have no idea why, I asked computer people this shit. When he spoke, he didn't show up on the screen when I put it on speaker, which is me right now, and which was at 10 and Dr. Mark, and anyone who speaks shows up as the main character, and nobody else shows up. Dr. Mark, I swear to God, for months, wasn't showing up. I was having every time he spoke, I'd have to go pin and I'd have to go pin his box and then unpin his box. It was a it listen, I'm already doing a lot while I'm running this show. Let me just tell you, I got conversations going on. I'm trying to stay super baked, which is not an easy task with fucking, you know, sometimes hurting cats. Yes, that's you guys. You're the cats. It's a compliment.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:51

Oh, last week you smoked through the entire episode, didn't you? Or two weeks ago. Dude, until my until I killed my Puffco, I think. Yeah, until you killed the Puffco. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 2:20:00

Yeah. When you're in Denver, that's right. Yeah. I dude, when I'm in Denver, I puffed tough. We've got like four universal heaters out on the tables, like all these fancy pipes with different bangers, Puffcos with like insane, insane tops. Like I can't even believe the tops. Uh, did I show you the top that my buddy uh Kyle bought from Matt Robertson last time I was there? I might have I can't remember if I showed it, but I I should show it anyway because uh it's ridiculous. Uh let me find it. Sometimes sometimes the phone requires you to do things just a little differently. All right, so here we go. Yeah. We'll go yo to him, start a conversation that I don't have time to deal with. Oh, is it gonna show up? Oh, there we go. This is how I can.

SPEAKER_08 2:20:53

Okay, now I do notice some well, at least in the chat, when you try to share something like a file in the chat, it will not allow you to share something from your computer.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:03

Why?

SPEAKER_08 2:21:06

I wonder if there's a setting in your I can share stuff. Will not allow in chat for anybody else.

SPEAKER_06 2:21:14

Well, that's super weird. Let me uh this is the problem. I it's easier when someone asks me um if they can share, but let me see. Display and control share screen, maintain current size, enter into full screen, uh share all windows from an application, choose individual windows or share all windows, show green border, show my zoom or place, share. Um it seems like it's all available. Like I don't see where it says only for me.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:51

Um all right, guys.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:58

Um one last one last try, and if not, I just share the presentation with uh with Mark.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:05

Yeah, for sure. I we've never had it not work for someone, I will say that.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:10

Yeah, that is strange. I haven't used Zoom for a while, so I'm not sure if that's the reason why people usually it's as simple as clicking share.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:20

Yeah, and the first time you did it offered me, it said can he share? And I said allow. Yeah, that's maybe I accidentally clicked decline. I don't think I did. I'm pretty baked.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:35

Um no, now it's working right now. Beautiful, perfect. All right, let's do it, guys.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:43

Okay, I'm actually super excited for this presentation now, dude. You built this up brilliantly. You're a smart guy, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 2:22:49

I hope so. I've I've I've been trying to. This is all planned. Marcus, so just very quick. Uh, this is the team. Um, I'm not a I'm not a scientist, I am an engineering scientist designing the solution. Dr. Bozniak is the neuroscience, uh neuroscientist behind all of this. And Puja and John and Weka are you know part of our team leading the creation of this AI for brain analysis. Um, the whole idea has always been you know, how can we objectively and reliably know our well-being state?

SPEAKER_01 2:23:28

And how Israel, can you turn your mic up a little bit? I I think I'm having difficulty hearing you.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:36

Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_01 2:23:37

Yeah, that's better, much better. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:40

Okay, great. Yeah, so so that uh that has been the idea of how how can we objectively and more reliably know the state of being of a person and how cannabis in this case help us to improve our well-being before any medical or therapeutic uh uh claim or benefit. And there the I was sharing with Mark um at CanMet uh last week that uh the the market gap that we found was the application of brain scans outside of hospitals or medical settings in order to know all of these wellness potential wellness effects that has on people. And the and the gap that I was uh talking about is that today we have questionnaires that are great in order to know you know what is the what is the perception of product experiences, but given the subjectivity and and other challenges, it's hard to uh accurately and reliably know the specific effects that a product is giving to a type of person and and and and and and how much that changes from a strain to a strain, or when you change the amount of consumption, etc. And then on the other side, you have the traditional body fluid analysis that has been used to quantify how much DHC or how much of a substance you have in your body. And um the original application of this technology that I'll show you was not going to be for cannabis effect research. It was going to be used for cannabis-impaired driving detection. When the government of Canada was in the process of legalizing cannabis uh at a federal level for recreational use, they were looking for additional tools that could help them to improve the whole investigation of determining if people were driving while high or not. And we proposed this technology. We said why don't you uh why don't we use brain scans? It's it's more objective and is more reliable. Because your problem is not detecting if a person consumed DHC or not. Your problem is um and is not necessarily safety because today you are detecting if someone has DHC in your system, but you don't know if that person is impaired or was impaired. So your problem is not safety, your problem is uh false potential accusations of being impaired just because people will have THC in their system without being active anymore. And we propose this technology and they thanks to them we raise about a million dollars in in non-dilutive funds to build the technology. We published papers and and and and close to the end of that project, we just realized that law enforcers were not super excited about the use of this technology for two main reasons. One, I guess it was too early for them to um you know to appreciate the uh the functionality of this technology, um, the lack of stronger scientific evidence about its use, but I also think that the challenge has been removing subjective uh assessments and now using an objective tool that will say whether you are high or not. And if you are not high, then you should not have any problem, even though you may have THs in your system. I think that that whole concept was a little bit disturbing. And and that's why we uh started to look for different applications for this technology, and we identify this gap in the space of research, which is objective and more accurate analysis of people's states of being and how cannabis or specific formulations or straints impact those well-being states, and and I guess in certain ways helps them to you know feel better or um you know accomplish certain life objectives.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:28

If you if you can speak a little louder, the people are having a hard time hearing you. It's coming in really quite. Oh, that's very better, right there. Is it is it better? Yeah, you have to speak loud. I think the mic is just only pulling in so much, but it's very interesting what you're saying, so I'll let you continue.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:45

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Marcus. Uh, yeah, so uh this technology for the record is not invented by us, it's it's not new, it has been used for more than a century uh to do brain scans for medical and therapeutic applications. It has been used by other neurologists to study uh cannabis effects uh in this traditional way, which is doing basic or manual brain signal analysis. But this approach is so lengthy and costly, and in the end, you need brain experts to do it that it was not possible to do this kind of uh EEG scans for uh cannabis effects research outside exploring medical benefits. And uh and uh I think that something like this, Marcus, is what you were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:49

Right? Uh uh what we have been doing for more than a decade uh today is to map the brain under several states of being. How people feel when they are high or even not high, when they are in a state of serenity and anxiousness, uh, when they are mentally clear or mentally confused, happy, sad, stress, angry, uh uh uh with physical pain, uh feeling nervous, and so many other cognitive states, uh, levels of levels of cannabis high, their heart rate, their psychological profile, etc. We have been doing that for over a decade, and thanks to this unique database that we have built, which on average is about 27 times larger than existing or public EEG databases. And and the and the reason why these databases didn't exist is because 10 years ago, nobody, except I guess us and maybe other pioneers, look at the opportunity of applying AI or machine learning to do this type of brainwave analysis in a systematized way. Once uh Elon Musk said basically anything that is digital will be systematized with AI. And this was the case of brainwave, or is the case of brainwave data, and after you know, many years of companies like us and and many others around the world that are building their own databases, now AI is being created, and what we have uh done on our side is uh uh the training of different AI models that are scientifically trained, validated and confirmed to identify complex brain signals that are associated to all of these states of being. Your mood, whether you're feeling in a positive mood or not, whether you're feeling relaxed or energized or sleepy or anxious or sad, or with mental clarity or mental confusion, angry or serene, with physical discomfort, are you feeling the munchies, the food craving, and the THC psychoactive effect, which is the PEL metric that I'll show you in a second? And um, and yeah, so now thanks to this uh scientific approach that we use to train AI models to do EEG analysis, and thanks to this portable, non-invasive, easy-to-use, wearable device, we are collaborating with universities, with RD labs, with cultivators in order to enable them to prove objectively how their products work and why they are different than others in the market. Collaborations with university is to more clinically study specific cannabinoids or specific uh you know products for clinical or therapeutic formulations or benefits. Not necessarily. Our technology, by the way, does not claim that it will treat anxiety as an example, but it can show that your well-being state is being stressed or less stressed after consuming certain products. So clinicians and leverage this data on top of additional research tools that they use in order to determine potential clinical or therapeutic uh benefits of uh cannabidoids or other natural products. Uh but we have we have multiple papers that we have published that I'll be happy to talk about. greater detail. Um and the part that I like to highlight is uh is is that through this 10 year trajectory we have we have not only worked with industry with the industry like Pax Labs, MRL Bay Extracts, and many other uh licensed producers in Canada and United States and in Germany. But also I really like to highlight the uh collaborations that we have established with the Washington State University, the Research Hospital of Montreal, and more importantly because Health Canada, which is the equivalent of the FDA, is the only health-related federal organization that has regulated the non-therapeutic cannabis research space. We have their approval, which means that they reviewed our protocols, our research tools, everything, and they have approved this research model, which is very transcendental even though it doesn't look um is not super clear to show it, but it's very transcendental because the approval of these master research protocols and approach to quantify all these kinds of uh mental states, they have recognized that speaking about these is not making any type of medical or therapeutic claim and recognizing that there are wellness benefits that are non-therapeutic. So as long as you don't claim that a product reduces stress and you don't claim that it treats PTSD, this is perfectly compliant with scientific standards and with this regulatory research framework to do research. And in 2020 well last year we attended CANMET for the first time and it was so well received the the presentation that I did and some study cases that I'll show you in a second that we just got so inspired to open a research site in the United States so the exact same research model that we created for the Canadian market now it's also replicated in in the States and that that has been the way we have we are helping other companies um I have a couple of uh study cases that we have uh uh that we have um uh documented and and get and uh and and got the approval of the licensed producers that were that were participating in these projects I'll just stop right now here maybe if you guys have any questions or comments I I'll be happy to answer them or we can wait until I show the study cases. Go ahead okay cool so you know gene McCain I think uh today he's no longer the at um at Melo Cannabis but uh at at that time which was I think a couple of years ago um he was the CEO of this cultivator in Massachusetts and he has a a a strain called the Purple Panther and he was the very first one that was explaining to me the issue that exists with the THC percentage because the right now somehow for many reasons that I I am I I don't know probably the consumer right now is driven to make product selections by the amount of DHC uh you know in a strain or in you know any type of cannabis product. And Jim McCain was telling me the problem he was facing with the Purple Panther because to him and to the people that have tried it's one of the best strains in a sense that creates a strong a strong high but its THC percentage is only 14%. So what we did is to implement the technology in his lab in Massachusetts and we invited nine uh you know nine consumers to try in different ways but in the same conditions at the same time same circumstances we invited them to bring their products and try the Purple Panther and the kosh well we blinded the the the brand name just for fair play and not and highlight that it's not about shitting in the other strain but just highlighting that you know th levels or thentage alone is not enough information to reliably determine the quality of a product so these nine subjects went to their lab and then they smoke whatever they smoked the first time with for example the purple panther taken back and they smoked the kosh strain that they took the the same number of puffs and this is the this is the psychoactive effect level that was measured on the brain from these nine subjects is a crossover study. So we aggregated the level of high of all the participants the nine participants when they smoke the purple panther and when they smoke the the the the other strain and as we can appreciate when we when we measure the high on the brain it's completely different than the percentage of THC that the strains are showing and thanks to this information the the mellow cannabis team has been running educational campaigns at retail to show to the consumers look the fact that this product has 14% of THC doesn't mean that it's bad or lower quality and that has been helping them or to the best of my knowledge what they were going to try to do is now to reposition the product as a true premium product that can be priced similarly to a 30% THC product. And um yeah so this is one of the the the main study results that we presented at GanMet the last year. I can pass to the next one or if you have any questions I can I I'll be happy to answer them.

SPEAKER_06 2:40:49

So the PEL is the is the is the potency arc exactly and the potency arc from the purple panther was was double that of the cush drain that was almost 30% THCA.

SPEAKER_08 2:41:04

Exactly yeah amazing right Marcus this is amazing it proves what we know that the high for some reason there's a high that is a difference and this is just science proving what we anecdotally know and this is what we want to see this is what we always kind of envisioned and this is a a very fascinating view. It's also you know cautionary to certain involvement because of you can see how something like this can be abused. However the what we're learning about it from just a strictly high category is absolutely fascinating because it can this fact that it doesn't matter what a tech what THC matters is right. This is scientific proof that shows us why and gives us a better understanding to communicate why.

SPEAKER_01 2:41:55

And so the the magic of this technology and what Israel has been able to demonstrate here is that the calculation of what what he calls PEL or uh it's on the y axis here we have psychoactive psychoactive effect level on the on the x axis we have time right we all know what time is so israel help us understand how the technology is able to basically compute the PEL because that's that's the magic of this technology right yeah totally mark in very simple terms what what this technology is doing is um every every dot that you see in this in this graph is is an EEG scan that is about two minutes long so we recorded the brain waves of people for about two minutes and the machine learning models were trained to identify EEG or brainwave patterns that are triggered when you are high so for two minutes the the the algorithms are quantifying how present is the high in your brain waves so the higher the higher the percentage of the PEL is basically the higher the amount of time that your brain waves are experiencing the high somebody was describing to me being high like sometimes is it's not something that is absolutely flat it's it it comes and goes like in waves so when you are very very high you will you will likely get to 100% of your brain waves being stoned but when you are not super high your brain waves are like oh I'm high but I'm not high it's coming and going so this method is basically quantifying how much your brain is getting into that high state and in this case what what it is showing is that the the the Kush strain was not that strong to create those brainwave uh stimulations or changes in order to make people feel as high as they were with the PEL I don't know is that is that clear so far Mark or I can try to yeah this is awesome dude I I already am like oh I want to get one for each of the micron bubble hashes so like smoking the 190 the 160 the 120 the 90 the 73 right all there's scientific now there's a scientific way that we can do side by side comparisons with different consumer uh demographics but markets we could also look at for early onset of activity with say fast acting edibles or beverages or this is so eye-opening in so many different ways exactly you can see immediately what onset is from which which would be especially for pain and various others you know would give clear or give a clearer picture specifically yeah or or or the the the reason why you might have to pay a little bit more for a quality rosin product versus some generic distillate which I think the next example he's about to show is going to compare.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:37

Yeah there we go go ahead yeah exactly Mark uh one of the the most successful collaborations that we have established uh with uh with uh companies in the states is Pax Labs which has always been a science driven high-tech you know company and um at that time Dr. Echo Rufer and Ricardo de Sellidon were you know and David were the scientists at Pax Labs that collaborated with us to conduct this study. So we brought our portable technology and implemented in their lab so they can do this type of uh research and we just teach them how to use it which is very straightforward and how to follow scientific protocols which they are even more scientists than us so they immediately knew how to do it. And in this case we recruited 14 study subjects that took eight hits of their live rosin blue dream and then in a different day they came back at the same time in the same place same conditions and then they took eight hits of the THC distillate very gelado. You can appreciate both seem to seem to have the same or very similar percentages of THC but we observed the exact same pattern the entourage effect of having the THC combined with all the majority or probably all the other cannabidos and terpenes and anything else that that were extracted through live rosin versus the THC distillate strain it was the exact same pattern that we obtained and we we conducted this study even before the the collaboration with Mellu cannabis and when we presented this to the team we were like oh my god they may be concerned that their high purity thc doesn't work etc and they were like no this is fantastic because the live roasting as Mark said is a premium product but we can it is not clear you know to the consumer why it is a a premium product or at least back in that time because both seem to have the same percentage of THC and that's the main you know the C you know parameter that the consumer is using to make decisions. So now there is objective brain-based data showing well the live Rustin will give you a higher high basically yeah this this was the and why chart this was the chart that I I took a picture of and I sent it to my friend Colin and then Colin's like that's my formulation yeah I was happy to introduce you to Colin the other night at dinner absolutely mark thank you so much uh uh you know Bob uh there are so many exciting opportunities to explore with uh you know his projects and innovations and we'll find some time to to connect in the next few days so thank you Mark uh yeah and there is just one more study case that I I wanted to share with you guys and your audience because uh this one is not uh uh related to THC uh but but but but it it it's about a a C B D product that is infused with terpings and uh we can observe a similar a similar pattern in a sense that the formulation matters how the product is combined with other cannabinoids or ingredients or terpings and the extraction method the con the the product format etc will completely impact the effectiveness of a product to deliver an effect and in this case we conducted a study with uh consumers of a CBD gummy that contains 50 milligrams of CBD and terpings I think yeah and uh like a a curated set of terpings that uh this company found in order to in order to boost the CBD effect and it was a very similar case where they were telling us about their challenge of communicating to the consumers why they include that why they infused the product with terpings why why is this better and why the product is a bit more premium or if if if Sam was alive he would interrupt rudely right now and he would say I invented that and damned if he didn't look at that and did it look at that this would bring a uh a tear to Skunkman Sam's eye I'm certain of it is real I'm i'm sure I'm sure when Ethan Russo was sitting in the audience and saw this he's like okay that's the entourage effect what we're seeing here is we're seeing of a physical manifestation of the entourage effect.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:50

Now it's interesting Israel because what we think of when we think of CBD is that it's not psychoactive but what the brainwave information is telling us is no there is some psychoactivity if it's relaxation versus a high it's just a different level of psych or a different kind of psychoactivity isn't that right yeah Mark exactly so this was uh something um I um it it's a it's a it's an interesting um on it's it's it's a it's interesting this approach so relaxation is a well-being state that we are in regardless of what we take but but it in this case the relaxation effect is psychoactive because it's coming from a cannabidoid which we know that it creates a it's uh it a psychoactive effect but we have observed that other natural ingredients you know that can also impact your relaxation state but but you are exactly right mark in this case this is showing that psychoactivity is not only about being high it's also about maybe making you feel more relaxed or sleepy or more mentally active or more mentally clear etc right so um in this case it's showing that cbd uh induces uh significantly more relaxation uh than the the cbd only uh product that contained the same amount of cbd but not but not therpid and i think that was the last uh that was the last the study case that that that i i i quickly prepared for for you guys but happy to uh exchange thoughts or answer any questions that uh you i have questions and thoughts i want to exchange both questions and thoughts with you because this is awesome it really is a very cool thing so you're in Canada doing this work uh and it's as simple as and so are you you have a special licensing to do like research and development or you work within like a an LP to do this work with cannabis good question marcus uh so for for for human research we don't need a license uh to produce cannabis or it it etc um what we need is uh ethical ethical approvals to conduct our research in and then and then we can conduct research with any single product that is available in the market or that is classified as hemp that doesn't require FDA approvals and all of these uh complications to conduct the studies and that and that the consumer can buy them and come to our labs in the states and and participate in our studies.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:59

Here in Canada we can do we can run studies with any single product available in the market or if we want to get the product directly from the producer there is where we apply this research license that we have established with Health Canada to update it and say now we want to test these news these new products can you give us permissions to permission to get the products and administer them and and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:28

So technically we can run observational studies anywhere in Canada and you and United States as long as the consumer can access the products very cool awesome are you done sharing is this was that the end of it yes exactly Marcus okay you can take you can pull it down that was really awesome yeah so Marcus you could obviously see the application of this in competitive marketing right I mean you could test your competitors' products against your products and show that your products get the patient a higher PEL score which means that you're gonna get higher on this product versus this product.

SPEAKER_06 2:55:10

No it's definitely super unique. I I see it for I mean everyone sees it for all sorts of different applications that they can kind of come up with and imagine with and it's definitely one of the cool things that uh you know this is the kind of thing people need to be focused on they're all like it's gonna take your job it's like well or you could just like use AI as a tool to create a job that doesn't you know really maybe yet exist. You know do something that other people aren't doing and so that's what Israel's doing.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:39

Yeah that that's exactly right Marcus the application of AI here is just opening the possibility of of doing brain research not necessarily for medical applications but to help prove all of these wellness and and functional

SPEAKER_06 2:56:00

That you know, that's that's the reason why people consume many people consume cannabis for daily help without listen, the the medical as well is going to be out of the box because I I've already there's already so many people using AI to like to read their blood. Yeah, you know, like they they put you you've read about all these people putting their blood up there up up into the AI and how it's just giving like listen, it makes sense that the AI will perceive things that human beings will miss. And the the the more intelligent and the wider the scope of the AI or AGI or whatever you want to call it gets, the more it's going to perceive into the future almost, as if magically. And so once we can aggregate that type of data, it uh it changes the game on what we know, and it really changes the game on what we didn't know we didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:56:55

I think the the side-by-side statistically uh robust comparison between form factor, uh smoking the bud versus smoking the hash versus smoking uh uh maybe a concentrate. I mean, the possibilities here are endless. The the fact that again, we can look at the way different cannabinoids, I would love to see what THCV does here. You know, people say that THCV is not psychoactive, but what about when you take a cultivar that has THCV and THC? Where does that P A E L go there, right? And there's so there's this opens the the the Pandora's box, which is how cannabinoids act with the brain and not relative to some you know blood level content as we know. You could have smoked a joint two weeks ago and still have THC in your bloodstream or traceable amounts of the metabolites. I guess the point is that you're directly making this connection with the brain, right? The central hard drive in all of us that basically governs our behavior and governs our activity. And so, yeah, so Israel, I think that like when I think about the possibilities of this technology and being able to show uh the entourage effect in a very, very tractable way. I mean, that cannabinoids plus terpenes creates a different high than just the cannabinoids by themselves, is just amazing. We could see the data. And scientists like me, we love data.

SPEAKER_06 2:58:28

Dude, that's like a side project for this technology. That was like a side quest to get the key under the palace. It wasn't it's just one aspect of a cool thing that you could do with said technology. It's definitely very cool. You got to make it the voice of authority, first of all.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:45

You gotta get people to really kind of Caleb put an interesting question in the chat. Caleb, do you want to ask that?

SPEAKER_02 2:58:52

Yeah. Does this can Bravewave like technology, can the data show when a person is having closed eye visuals versus using their mind's eye, or when they're having like open eye visuals? And then separately, like, is there any data on how apantastic people, like people who can't visualize with their mind's eye? And then when they take drugs, they can, you know, can't are you able to capture that and see which drugs do that or which strains do that? So is there uh panic data that we have that do not have quantitative data to back it up? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:59:26

Yeah, so very uh I would say that we are working on that uh because right now it's a very general quantification of are you high or not? But we have also been documenting specific uh information about the type of high that that uh you know the consumer has been experiencing while we do the EG scans. For example, when are you feeling the body high or the head high? Are you visualizing uh you know certain things or or not? Are you uh you know feeling less pain, etc.? So there are so many other markers. The reason why we haven't trained the models to that point is because data data is so important to do the training and uh you know when we train and release models is because they went through a very rigorous scientific approach to train them, test them, validate them, and then conduct the studies to show that they are consistent and reliable, etc. So, long story short, we don't have them yet, but I believe that the databases are getting close to that state where we will be able to say, oh, this product is making you feel high, and this is the type of high that you are having, right? And and even going a little bit further with that concept, Mark and I were talking about, for example, feeling feeling drunk, right? Sooner or later, we will also, we or other companies, I guess, uh it doesn't matter, we we will be able to map the brain when you are drunk. And I think that that will also transform the way uh you know law enforcement, the government regulates alcohol consumption and and uh alcohol-impaired driving. Because if uh you know a daily alcohol consumer may have just one, sorry, two beers and it might test positive in the fertilizer, but they might have already developed resistance, so so they are not drunk with two drinks. But I don't drink at all. So one drink might make me feel dizzy enough to maybe be at that level of uh you know uh dizziness where my alertness levels is has decreased. So I think these CG scans very down the road will help will help in many other ways, uh including safety and and uh other applications. So I think uh the exciting part also will be the moment we are able to say, Oh, this person is high with cannabis or you know with LSD, ayahuasca, you know, with so many uh other substances that are you know is stimulating the brain in very unique ways.

SPEAKER_06 3:02:25

The fingerprint of brain activity based on each substance.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:29

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 3:02:31

And I would love to see the difference personally because this is something I've always felt very strongly of. And I've watched it. I had uh my mother and my sister both worked at 911 and got all the calls and was like, yeah, they're always alcohol related. Very rarely is it cannabis related. And so what I and I what I noticed in my own experience was when I got people, especially when bubble hash was brand new and fresh, and I would get people very high, they would just choose not to drive if they had to go somewhere. So there was this part of the brain that wasn't being frozen like it was with alcohol, which was A, not only does it impair you, which would be great to hone in on the area of the brain that was impaired, um, and then B, show that cannabis is affecting a completely different part of the brain. Because unlike alcohol, when people are um, I wouldn't say impaired, but let's say in their own mind doubtful of how well they can operate a motor vehicle, um, they just won't. They just won't. They just won't convince themselves that they're totally fine with full confidence and insanity, like the person who is uh hammered on the booze will do do. So it would be very cool to show those differences. And it would be unique to show with cannabis, especially, um, because I'm I have seen a lot of people and a lot of people that use medical cannabis. I mean, if they couldn't drive while having cannabis in their system, well, then they'd never be able to drive anywhere. So there's tons of medical people throughout Canada, guaranteed and non-medical, who use cannabis and who drive. And so it would be interesting to show that part of the brain to see is it truly considered impairment. I always thought personally, coming from a police family, like impairment would be simple. It shouldn't matter what you're on. It should just be like if you are impaired, then you then we got to get you off the road or whatever, and take the chance that we're making a mistake or whatever from the police perspective. Impaired is impaired. If you're impaired, like you get out of the car and you fall out of the car or you can't stand up straight or your eyes are weaving and wavering, whether you're tripping balls on something or whether you're hammered on booze, like if you're impaired, you're impaired. Uh, and to me, anytime anyone felt those effects from getting too high on cannabis, uh, like 9.9 times out of 10 would just be like, I'm not driving right now. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:05:01

And that's a couple of points there, Marcus, because um well, we have conducted internal feasibility studies where we have been measuring uh the performance of subjects uh while driving, and the way we did it was by building a driving simulator that was asking cannabis consumers like I will show you randomly on the screen certain tasks or buttons that you need to press when you are driving and and uh things like that. And and uh we did that type of assessment before consuming uh their cannabis products, and then after I think that at that time they were only smoking cannabis and they were pretty stolen. And and their driving performance was even better, specifically about that type of assessment that we were doing. And and it I guess it makes total sense because um in that specific case, because I think that when you are high or the few times I have been, you you you you see everything in a in a in a lower motion. So you are you can appreciate greater levels of details that maybe when you are sober you don't appreciate. And and people were reacting way faster and way better when they were high, basically. Now I'm not saying that people should drive necessarily when they are high, but I totally agree with you. What is the definition of being impaired? And I think that uh down the road with this type of brain technology, not necessarily ours, maybe there will be others, uh, you know, but that definition of being impaired will will like you know, will likely I really believe that it will change.

SPEAKER_06 3:06:55

Well, it should because think of this. Are we really worried about people who are smoking a joint here or there, or are we worried about people on like Adavan and um you know benzodiazepans and all sorts of washed down with some tequila, all sorts of legal pharma drugs that people are on? Like there are zombies out in the world that are just you know, you if you don't look close enough, you won't notice them. They're just driving, just like oh, 120 miles an hour down the highway through the red light, wipe out a whole family. It's like, oh, I don't know what happened. It was on so many things, so you got to be careful out there for sure. But that that is the kind of impairment I always thought personally, I was never a fan of road checks. I got busted at a road check, an alcohol road check, and I got had a bunch of cannabis for the BC Compassion Club. It was I was one of the first compassion club cases in Canada that went to court. Uh, and it was at the time seemingly not a great experience, although it did lead to me starting my company uh Fresh Headies and doing the bubble bags, and so a whole everything that's happened since then has really happened because of that. So I can't really complain about it. It was uh one of those uh experiences where you manifest your uh reality, but you don't recognize it at first because I didn't think I manifested myself getting uh arrested with 16 pounds and some some past.

SPEAKER_01 3:08:21

Could you envision the the way that they have that, you know, for people who are repeat offender drunk drivers or D DWI, you have to blow into a breathalyzer to activate the ignition on your automobile? Could you envision the same kind of thing where you have to put on this hat and it assesses your level of impairment before your car will be allowed to turn on, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:08:45

I think the problem with that is that there are so many of the people, like I would say the percentage is probably 97.9% alcohol who caused all the like horrendous, like life-altering and life-ending accidents. That's the highest percentage. That's why they test uh with the breathalyzer because alcohol is just so easy to test for. Once you bring in the other drugs, you would definitely need a technology like uh what Israel did.

SPEAKER_01 3:09:14

And the other and the other thing to be honest, Marcus, is because it's been so widely looked at, there's a definitely a correlation between blood alcohol content and driver impairment, right? Because they've done that analysis over a statistically significant swath of the population, heavy drinkers, light drinkers, medium drinkers, right? So they're able to basically be able to make that correlation. I think what Israel's technology will enable us in the future is really to assess actual impairment. It may almost be agnostic to the to the material that's impairing you, whether it's alcohol, you know, cannabinoids, pills, right? Because it's affecting the brain, right?

unknown 3:09:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:09:55

Is that right, Israel? And and the the actual application of this technology or the study case that we or the proposal that we made to the to the uh to the um uh the organization that funded us and and the Ontario Provincial Police that somebody from that organization was evaluating these technology proposals, we said, look, this technology is not about or is not proposed to replace your current methods and saliva tests. I think saliva tests are great and fantastic to help you immediately identify uh if somebody consumes a potential a substance that might impair you. But where this technology can help you is that once a person tests positive in a saliva test, and you take them to the police station where you begin your your whole investigational process through the this DRE evaluation, the drug recognition expert evaluation for that takes for about 40 minutes or more, there is where you can do a quick EEG scan that may take you, let's say 10 minutes, and you can objectively know if they are truly experiencing acute DHC psychoactive effects on the brain or not. If it's not, then it means that people were just consumed recently cannabis, but but they were not they are not anymore impaired, and you should let them go. If they test positive in this brain and brainwave analysis, then of course, uh go ahead and continue your entire investigation so you can collect very robust evidence of an illegal activity. Fair enough. But if not, be aware that you know many people will test positive in a saliva test because you are allowing black people to consume cannabis, and the fact that they they have more than five milligrams of THC in saliva or in the blood doesn't necessarily mean that they are impaired. And now you can do that kind of a screening test and immediately eliminate safety concerns and let them go or continue your investigation. So that was the application that we proposed to them.

SPEAKER_06 3:12:24

Next on Cop Church. That's awesome. Yeah, very cool. I mean, listen, I'm sure there's all sorts of different applications or different pathways that you guys will be able to go with this. I I can definitely see all sorts of low-hanging fruit. Uh, and of course, uh the higher hanging fruit is just as visible as well. It's just uh I'm sure more costly to operate under.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:54

Yeah, totally, Marcus. And uh, you know, but one of the main reasons why we also chose these these, you know, first low-hanging fruit, which is the application of the this technology for research, is because uh the application of AI in brain technology is just about to boom. Uh it's just about to it's just about to explode because for a decade companies have been building these databases, not only Centrela. And um building these databases is the most crucial part in order to maximize the full potential of uh machine learning in in this space so we can uh learn more and more about you know cannabidoids and other you know functional products and functional ingredients and how all of them impact our well-being. So I I am really, really excited and so happy for the decision that we made and uh multiple years ago because thanks to that now we have like this more robust uh capability of quantifying other mental states. But uh you know the possibilities are just uh literally uh unimaginable at this point. I'm pretty sure we haven't even foreseen other applications and other ways of uh creating AI for brainwave analysis that would be uh uh I would say game-changing uh in the space of wellness and health and uh in cannabis and other spaces uh that just are focused on helping us uh enjoy life uh more and you know be happier.

SPEAKER_06 3:14:42

Well, you know, speaking of health and brain waves and cannabis, I want to give a shout out and a rest in peace, unfortunately, to my good friend Dr. Brent Reynolds, who worked at the University of Miami and who was responsible for really flipping the whole stem cell world on its head, pun intended, when his master's degree he um promoted the idea that stem cells were to be found in the brain and really sort of rewrote that science. He passed away in April. I only found out recently, just at the end of May, I found out, and Dr. Brent Reynolds was the gentleman who helped formulate the prana that uh Tony was selling back in the day with River Rock. Dr. Brent Reynolds was part of our Jamaican company that we had, CRD. And I had uh even started a little mushroom company with him uh prior to him passing away. So just uh shout out to Dr. Brent Reynolds, who was uh always such a good human, and uh he is no longer with us as as it goes sometimes. Dude looked like he was in his 40s 40s, he was 63. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 3:16:01

So that's how old I am. Oh, really? Yes, I'm good, Dr. Mark.

SPEAKER_01 3:16:11

I look good for 63, though, don't I? Yeah, I look a day over.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:17

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 3:16:17

I look a day over 62, right?

SPEAKER_08 3:16:20

Not a day over.

SPEAKER_06 3:16:22

You know what? I don't know. I've only ever been 53, is the oldest I've really ever been. I don't really know what worse. I just remember being a kid. If you were like in your 50s or 60s, you were like old as fuck. Like that was old. Um, now only as old as you behave. Well, I guess so, right? You know, and it's different. It's different. It is a mindset. Age is definitely a mindset. I think it was Prince who is like, uh, he doesn't say he didn't celebrate birthday. He's like, How many birthdays do you have? He's like, I've had 36. He's like, Well, I I would argue that you've only had one, and then you've celebrated it over and over and over again, which has enforced your aging. He's like, I do not celebrate my birthdays, and because of it, I look like this. And he does, and he did look pretty young in the interview. The prints interview you can look up. Classic prints, don't celebrate your birthdays. It only enforces age upon you. I might have to uh put a small amount of belief into that. Then we'll get the EEG on my head and we'll be like, oh, there's something there's something here, man. There's something here. Yeah, I I don't it's neuropathicity is at an all-time high.

SPEAKER_01 3:17:34

It it it it's funny you mentioned that. And when when Ezra was talking about um uh uh ayahuasca and whatnot, I wonder, like for people who get off on religion, you know, like like religion is like a drug, right? So if you were to look at like an atheist versus someone who's religious and you show them like an image. Of, I don't know, Donald Trump looking like Jesus or something. You know, some kind of religious vision. I mean, do does religion generate a little bump in psychoactive effects? It probably does, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:18:18

Well, like going to a fish show and not taking any psychedelics. Right, go, right, right, right. Or being a little kid and going out on Halloween night with your friends. Like there's so many different things.

SPEAKER_01 3:18:32

Spinning in constructivity. You know? Yeah. Or like when I'm at a fish show and I want to see a good split open and melt or a good a good divided sky. And what do they break into, Mark? Big black furry creatures. Oh my god. I'm like, oh my God. I want to see what happens to my PEL then.

SPEAKER_06 3:18:50

You know, yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's the first time you see the northern lights, you know, the first time you hear a loon on the lake at 4 a.m. as you're getting up out of your tent to take a leak. There's all sorts of different unique aspects that would be amazing to map. Um, and I'm sure like AI will do it, right? With the more people like Israel who are doing this work, the more I guess ability AI will have to aggregate it all and come up with things like he just mentioned that we won't even have any idea of.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:21

You know, the it it it's uh this mental estate uh uh when no, I don't know, Catholics, Muslims, Christians, uh uh you're very quiet again. Speak speak louder. Yes, can you hear me now? Can you hear me better?

SPEAKER_01 3:19:37

A little bit, yeah. Speak like you're in the front of a room with no microphone.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:41

You must speak loud. Let me can you hear me better? Yes, okay, I'll speak louder. But you know, it it's like when people when people are praying, Catholics, Jewish, Muslims, all these religions are praying, and they are building this spiritual connection with God, and people believing in the universe and the law of attraction. I wonder if it's the exact same state of mind. Yes, I don't know, but maybe I will many people will want to murder me after saying this because but I I wonder if it's the exact same state of being of spirituality and connection with something else above us that we are not able to understand yet. And some people call it God, others, you know, but the law of attraction, etc. I think it's pretty related to what you guys were mentioning. Like, is it just uh because of how human race you know existed and has evolved in different parts of the world that we call it different religions or or not, and it's truly different that's likely we're tapped into the very same it's a frequency, if I were to say anything.

SPEAKER_06 3:21:10

I was feeling the law of attraction today because I was I was like shit, I'm all out of flour, I need some flour. I was like, I don't smoke a ton of flour, but I was I need some flowers. Well, I apparently mixed up my manifestation slightly, but for Father's Day, my youngest son just brought me some flowers. So yeah, there it is. I got some flowers.

SPEAKER_01 3:21:37

Now we could see Mark's PEL going up, right? It is. Uh Israel. Uh Caleb brought an interesting question out to chat. So what about what about uh experiences that harsh or high, right? So all of a sudden, if you see the the uh police lights in your rear view mirror, and oh my god, that harsh is high, or somebody showing up with a flashlight to bother you and your friends as you're smoking. So, do you think like if your high is decreased, you'd see that as a drop in PEL?

SPEAKER_00 3:22:10

I'm not sure, Marco. Uh, we haven't done a specific research, uh, like that type of research.

SPEAKER_05 3:22:18

But that research would be a super bummer. Okay, we're gonna put you guys in a car once you get real high, and then uh maybe something's gonna happen, but we can't tell you what because we don't want to ruin the adrenaline spike you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_00 3:22:34

But we know, right, that uh if you I don't know, you are listening to music that you don't like or you are you are uncomfortable, you may experience paranoia or anxiety. So I don't know if that will trigger a higher PL, but if we look at the anxiety levels, maybe they will go up for sure.

SPEAKER_05 3:23:00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:23:01

Yeah. Once we conducted a study here in Canada with uh with uh with a a flower, a very strong flower. So participants came to the lab and smoked their flower, but it was a group of 10 study subjects and they didn't know each other. And some of them were feeling paranoid and anxious just by being with strangers and asking them to do certain cognitive tests and memory tests, etc.

SPEAKER_06 3:23:39

They their anxiety levels just went up just by Oh my god, you could do it with a picture of Trump, you could set people through the roof, you could prove TDS, in fact, you could put that to rest forever. Because that guy, honestly, the only thing I saw that enraged people more than him, and I accidentally, I the first time I saw the cyber truck, I was like, Well, this thing's super weird. So I screenshotted it and I posted it on my Instagram, and it got a massive like I think it got four or five hundred thousand views, but there was like 4,000 people like threatening my life, calling me a douche for buying it. I was like, I never said I bought it. Like people were so angered by the sight of this truck. I was like, whoa, like you could definitely measure that with an EEG, whatever that is. I bet you it's the anti-high, it's like the whatever the high spike is, it's like the it's the inverted one. Wow, this is exciting, man. I'm kind of excited for your science.

SPEAKER_00 3:24:44

Thank you, Marcus.

SPEAKER_01 3:24:46

Yeah, I I connected both of you. I shaded contact information with both of you so you guys could connect. Marcus, I would love for you and your companies up in um Canada to forge a relationship with Israel and this company and to really, you know, push the limit of where this thing can go. Because, man, to me, I mean, just some of the things we're brainstorming here. I mean, there's unlimited opportunity now to actually look at how these things affect the brain and how these things affect the individual. You know, up until this point, this has really just been a shot in the dark. You know, you can't really tell by blood level activity because these metabolites are very fat soluble and they're stored in fat. And as fat is burned, they're released into the body. And I'm convinced that our bodies have evolved these mechanisms to hold on to these molecules because they're so important. Hold on to them as long as we possibly can. Because, yes, they fight cancer, they fight free radical-mediated damage. And you know, what's wrong with feeling a little high every now and then? In fact, doesn't PEL can we can correlate probably PEL to drop in blood pressure to other uh you know, uh data points around the human condition that might be able to help us understand how we can use cannabinoids to affect disease. One of the things that Israel and I were talking about poolside the other day was you know, in some cases, you don't want psychoactive effect, especially if you're trying to treat either young children or uh say older population, you don't want a PEL. Kids like to get stoned too, man. Well, I'm joking. Point is, Marcus, is that like if you have a young child, you don't want them to be high. I mean, and and certainly like I I had a case with with uh a friend of mine whose mom at 88 years old had a double mastectomy, and after all that pain and having to get rid of breast cancer, we tried her on a gummy. And you know, even though the gummy was very, very low dose, she had never used THC beyond her teenage years, and it made her feel very uncomfortable and very dizzy. And and she she stopped using the gummy altogether, and she's she's passed on since. But I guess the point is that some people need the cannabinoids as medicine, but don't necessarily want the psychoactivity. Well, look at the utility of this tool to identify hey, we can dial in a patient's medicine without you know making them.

SPEAKER_06 3:27:32

But but here's a question. Okay, of course, people okay, lots of people don't want the psychoactivity, totally understand that. And do they want all the other side effects that all the other drugs give them? Like, no, but what? They have some like magical wand. Oh, I don't like anal leakage, so I'm not gonna. It's like, dude, you're gonna take this drug or you're gonna die. How about that? People are just taking these drugs, but when it comes to cannabis, they're worried about getting high. This was the exact situation with my uncle. He was so afraid of getting high that he ended up passing away soon after sending me back Horatio's oil. Whereas the person I sent that oil to took it all and is literally like, you know, been cancer free for like a decade or however long it's been. So it's definitely it would definitely be unique if we could put up more data that's visual that could show people like, hey, this is what's happening in your brain. Like it's like it's not damaging you, you're not burning your brain cells. In fact, it's increasing neuroplasticity. We can show that here and here. We can I have the greatest of confidence that everything he finds and others find using EEG with cannabis is just going to be mind-bendingly good. Uh, the deeper in they go, the more you'll find out. I mean, this is a substance that is intimately combined with mammals, like with our endocannabinoid signaling systems. We require these compounds. So I can only imagine the magic that you'll find in the brain. Well, I mean, what you've already found. And in fact, yes, of course, Dr. Mark, I'm going to hook up with Israel. I've already been uh typing with my partner uh for our new company, the Global Hash Collective. Uh, and he is friends with what was it, Kinlock that did that study with you? Yeah, Kinlock. So he's friends with the owner of that company, so fine uh flow scientific as well, I think, or one of those.

SPEAKER_07 3:29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:29:24

Um, yeah. So I'm gonna hook. He wants you to um email me. I'll email you first, but he'd love to eat get some of these uh um results that you that you have. Uh and we're definitely gonna link up and have a conversation. So that has already begun. Because of course, while I'm moderating Hash Church and trying to pay attention to everything Israel says, but also chime in and have my own thoughts. Uh, in the background, I'm just uh, you know, messaging partners and setting up uh relationships. Thank you, Dr. Mark.

SPEAKER_04 3:29:53

Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 3:29:54

You're welcome. Hey, anything I could do to help. Hey, you you know, again, I I would love Israel if we could actually do a demonstration of this technology on an upcoming episode of Hash Church, you know, so we could actually see this in real time. Would that would that be a possibility where we could actually look at this the PEL level of somebody who is consuming?

SPEAKER_00 3:30:17

Well, the the right now the technology is split into components. One one component is the application of the headband and doing the brainwave recording, etc.

SPEAKER_01 3:30:29

Wait, did you call it a headband?

SPEAKER_00 3:30:31

Yeah, headband.

SPEAKER_01 3:30:32

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 3:30:35

Headband. There it is. Um, so and then so we do all of that data collection first, and then we have the machine learning algorithms in the cloud to do the analysis, and right now this version is not doing the analysis in real time. So, but but I was sharing with you, Mark, that we have a version that works in real time, and maybe it's time to make it work because many years ago when we built it and we were telling people that we were able to detect if you were high or not with this you know technology that reads your microvolts from generated from your brain, that you would literally, and I will never say names, but some neuroscientists were saying this is stupid. And and and and you know, when we were presenting this also to the government, we were just so frustrated that they didn't believe in this, that we film it, and also we don't have the consent of the study subjects that were that are part of that study, so proudly wearing their Bob Marley shirt because they were going to be in a video getting high. But uh we have that version of the technology mark, and and as soon as we have it uh up and running, I'll let you know, guys. It will be fantastic to see that it's it it was it was so exciting to see it working with what I can describe you is those real-time demonstrations we were doing back in that time where we were asking in one case, we were asking a consumer to smoke a a CBD dominant strain, and we were saying, Okay, feel free to have a puff of your strain, and then EEG scan, and then measuring in real time the PEL, zero, have another puff, zero PEL, third puff, fourth puff, okay, 10% of the PEL. And then that person was like, okay, let me try now this strain that has 21% of THC. Boom, 70% PEL. Next recording, 100%, 100%. And it was so interesting, by the way, to see that.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:55

I guess because of the high concentration of TH of CBD in the first strain, that that was I have a vision, I have a vision for the future here, and someday on Hash Church, we're all gonna have a headband. All of us panelists, ATN, Marcus, we'll all have headbands. And then when we hear the bong rip mother lovers, right, there's gonna be a little score thing on the side, right? And they're gonna watch us all consume and we'll see who's getting high and who's not, and maybe even ask our friends in the chat to join as well. So could you imagine if all of our friends in the chat and everybody watching Hash Church and all the panelists on Hash Church all had the headband, right? And we were all networked into some absolutely mark.

SPEAKER_00 3:33:46

That would be a exciting to see.

SPEAKER_01 3:33:49

Bubble Man, make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 3:33:51

I'm working on it already. Just give me a couple manifested, Mark. It's being manifested, it will happen.

SPEAKER_01 3:33:57

Yeah, uh, it it's kind of like the way Puffco is our sponsor. Maybe Zentrella can be our sponsor someday. And uh, you know, Puffco is very, very kind and sends us all the latest gadgets and everything. So maybe with Zentrella as a sponsor for Hash Church, we'll all get our headbands, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:16

Exactly. Your PTG kept it, uh Mark.

SPEAKER_01 3:34:20

For yes, exactly. Exactly. Now, now again, let's let's think out of the box here. Could there be a Zentrella type device that tells you your endocannabinoid deficiency level and be coupled with something that immediately administers through some microchip embedded in your brain cannabinoids to make sure that your PEL level is adjusted appropriately, right? PEL regulator.

SPEAKER_06 3:34:50

Yeah, it would be the PEL regulator, exactly. Exactly. It would sound like Darth Vader. It would be like, what was that? It's like that was just my PEL regulator.

SPEAKER_01 3:35:00

Is that the future of getting high? The future of getting high is having some biofeedback system based on EEG level that tells you, hey, it's time to re-up, you know?

SPEAKER_06 3:35:13

No, no, the future is having thoughts, right? Doing what the DMT elves told Terrence to do what they were doing, which was creating three-dimensional objects with their voices. So when we can create reality with the frequency of our voice from nothing to something, that will be the future.

SPEAKER_00 3:35:34

Absolutely. Well, so excited.

SPEAKER_01 3:35:39

Israel, thank you so much for sharing your stuff today on Hash Church. This has just been wonderful. I'm looking at some of the comments in the chat. I think we've educated a whole lot of people today.

SPEAKER_00 3:35:49

Thank you so much, uh, Mark, for for the invitation. You told me that you were going to do it. And when I saw your text message, I was like, okay, everyone, I need to go back to my apartment because you know, but I wouldn't I would not miss the opportunity. And thank you, Marcus and Etienne, for for inviting me and and and listening to what we are doing.

SPEAKER_06 3:36:11

Absolutely, dude. Thank you for coming on. It was awesome. Like I said, we'll have to have you on again. And myself, uh, and my partner will definitely be reaching out to you here in the near future to see what kind of synergies we can sort of figure out. In the least, my partner's got questions and he would love to get an email with some of that, uh, some of what you shared.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:30

And certainly we should acknowledge you know, Kevin and Brendan and the CanMed community for bringing me and Israel together. You know, I wouldn't have I wouldn't know who Israel and his company is if I hadn't attended CanMed last uh year in Puerto Rico. So um it's awesome. You know, thank you for attending, Israel. And and certainly, you know, again, this you know, regardless of what you think about the McKernans, this conference brings people together and bridges gaps, and this is just another manifestation of that. I like the McKernans, yes, they're awesome. Not everybody does though. So well, you know what?

SPEAKER_06 3:37:08

Fuck those people. How about that? I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 3:37:14

But to to have a venue where where people that are coming up with new technology, like what Israel's company is, and then uh myself, who's just a chemist who's looking to make new medicines from cannabis, to meet with people like Dustin and Bonnie and Ethan, the the front-end doctors. I mean, it really it spans this, you know, what cannabinoids can do, and we do have a crystal ball. We can look in the crystal ball and see what the future can be like. And I'm just so grateful to have met you, Israel. And we shared a ride back to the airport together. And I hope your flight back home yesterday was as smooth as mine. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 3:37:56

Dude, I wish I wished I could have been there. I really do. I I had to be somewhere else next year, Marcus.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:02

Next year, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:38:03

Where will it be? Somewhere different.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:05

I think it'll I think I think they really like this resort. It's the Grand High.

SPEAKER_04 3:38:09

I'd like to go back to Tahoe.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:11

Yeah, I think it's gonna be back at Tahoe because I think they really liked it. I'd like to know that and uh hopefully uh Israel will be there to show us some new data on what the wonderful things that this technology can bring. I I am just awash with possibilities here. There's so many things you can do with this.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:30

Absolutely, Mark. Thank you very much, guys. Have a great rest of the the show today, and we're in touch, Marcus. Thank you, everyone.

SPEAKER_04 3:38:39

Thank you, Israel. Thank you, Israel.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:41

Thank you, guys. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_06 3:38:43

Well, that was darn interesting. Wasn't it? Absolutely. It's almost like you just learn stuff on hash church. It's weird.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:51

I I feel like I feel like one of Jesus' disciples, you know, like when you when you see something that's amazing like that, and you can't wait to share it with your friends and associate, you you know, bring bring together these these different communities because he's not a doctor, right? He's not a chemist, right? He's a software and a you know, a computer guy, you know. It's like so, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:39:17

I know Sam would have been asking him a thousand questions.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:23

Sam would want to break the machine.

SPEAKER_05 3:39:25

Yeah, he's like, I'm gonna break the how what's the boundaries on this thing?

SPEAKER_06 3:39:29

What's uh Sam would have been ordering it behind the scenes, he wouldn't break the machine and he'd have come on Has Church and he would have had that thing on the doll. I was about to say it would be on the cat and the hat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:39:45

Yeah, so when he smokes the cat gets high, right? Yes, exactly. That was good.

SPEAKER_06 3:39:53

Well, good day, a little bit left, another 25 minutes of shit of chit chatting. I got some beautiful plants that I went and picked up. The other day. So I have uh just like six or seven nice little bushies sitting out on the plot on the deck waiting for the sun to come out. I love having some cannabis plants. I think my wife and I are gonna go to the garden store today and maybe get a giant plot for our jade plant and maybe some some earth and some other little flowers for around the property. So that's always exciting. Father's Day, chill, chillax day. Don't have to do too too much, but um Yeah, I see I shared Dr. Brent Reynolds' uh thing there as well to you guys. Um in the in the in the private chat now.

SPEAKER_04 3:40:36

I don't know if I shared it in someone let me uh share it in the chat box. I was shocked to hear about Dr. Reynolds. I really was. Such a nice dude, such a good guy.

SPEAKER_01 3:40:56

Yeah, so it's interesting, like when I had first gone over and talked to Tony when I was in Denver that one time, and he was showing me he had a uh um his patent application was was you know, he handed me over this big wada, you know, paper, and I was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I was like, Tony, w how did you come up with all this? He never mentioned this guy's name at all. Oh, I know. Tony wanted to take all the credit, I think.

SPEAKER_06 3:41:24

Yeah, I mean, Dr. Brent was doing his thing. He's uh he's a good dude. I definitely met him through Tony. I wouldn't have known him without those guys. Uh I was glad I got to know him, but it was uh he definitely has gone too soon. He had a property on Salt Spring, or sorry, not Salt Springs, uh not Savory either. He had on Lasquiti Island, which is the island that like the the hardcore sunk the barge, the BC Hydro barge, so that they never brought power to this island. This island is completely off-grid. It's nicknamed the Rock. And uh he had a really nice property over on Laskiti Island that uh I was always hoping to get over to say hi to him.

SPEAKER_04 3:42:10

I guess that's not how they do it. Anyways, anyways, what do you guys have to do for the rest of the day? I mean I could do that too.

SPEAKER_06 3:42:34

My son wants to go electric skateboarding instead. Guaranteed he does. I'm gonna have to put my but my four-wheel drive wheels on. What's the weather like up there, Marcus, today? It's hot and beautiful as it is every day from like the end of May till like the end of September. It'll just be like epically beautiful. We'll get very little rain. Eventually the entire province will become tinder and like just ready to flash a burst into flames. Hopefully that doesn't happen. And then it'll be winter, and I'll I'll leave a sigh of relief. And uh, you know, at least fall when the rain starts coming, it turns into snow early on up on the mountain. And uh, once the mountains fill up with snow, I start feeling pretty excited that I'm gonna be able to go snowboarding because it's still one of my favorite things to do. And out of all the things I do, snowboarding and dirt biking are kind of at the top of the list for things that I probably won't be able to do forever, forever if I if I really age uh even well. Uh, so I want to do it as much as possible. I hope I have another like 20 or 30 years left, but I'll see.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:41

How's the weather in the bay area, ATN?

SPEAKER_06 3:43:45

Sunny, cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:48

I mean, I'm in a sweater.

SPEAKER_06 3:43:51

ATN and I are both in the bay, but we're in different bays.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:55

Um, yeah, so I'm on Mallet's Bay, so I'm on a bay too. We're all in the bay.

SPEAKER_08 3:44:00

I'm gonna do what I do every Father's Day, which is whatever I want because I'm not a father, so yeah. Not that you know of. Not that no, no, no, no. I'm a cat daddy, so I'm a ch I'm gonna pet my cats. My mom-in-law is uh is over at the house, so we're just kind of chilling with her. We're working on the backyard, and then um yeah, working on some articles and all kinds of other things, you know. Me um doing, always doing nothing.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:26

So is your is your dad still alive, ATN?

SPEAKER_08 3:44:30

No, my my biological father died years ago, and then my stepdad uh he died at 93 peacefully in his bed uh after surviving World War II and all that shit, man. He survived the Battle of the Bulge, yeah. So he was a badass. So he he he enjoyed his life, he had five kids, and um yeah, I mean, if you can make it to 90 year nineties, you're doing good in this world. Um, and he had his faculties pretty much just about until the end, which is again all you could hope for, and that's just taking care of yourself. But you know, he smoked until his 50s, had a quadruple bypass surgery, and you know, lived a clean life since, and that got him from you know, another 40 years in life. So, you know, quitting smoking cigarettes uh was a major part, you know. But I mean, all of our parents, right, were of that smoking generation. Did your parents smoke, Mark?

SPEAKER_01 3:45:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My parent, both my my dad smoked a pipe, my mom smoked a cigarette, and you could picture this, right? 64 Bonneville station wagon, right? Three kids in the back, and all windows, both both parents smoking. So, I mean, back then they just they just didn't know, they had no concept that this was they had a concept that Dr.

SPEAKER_06 3:45:54

Welby told him it was fine. He said, I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV and you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 3:45:59

Most doctors smoke camels, you bitches.

SPEAKER_06 3:46:02

Yeah, smoke camels, motherfuckers.

SPEAKER_01 3:46:05

Yeah, and I think they always they always looked at the Marlboro man, right? The out of back when they used to be able to advertise before he went through chemo, right? Right, before he went through they replaced it with another guy. The the the Marlboro man was always a big bronze.

SPEAKER_06 3:46:20

What keeps happening to the Marlboro man?

SPEAKER_01 3:46:22

It's like John Wayne looking thing dying. Yeah, but um isn't it true? Uh I mean, again, like not only were they told they they were actually told at one point that it was good for them, right? Yeah, that smoking was good.

SPEAKER_08 3:46:36

Palms the nerves, right? Right. That was a nerve tonic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:46:42

Right. Right. So it wasn't like standard issue back in World War II was like even in Vietnam, it you would get a four-pack of you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 3:46:53

So it's a Hershey's chocolate, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:46:55

Hershey's chocolate, a can of Coca-Cola, and some Marlboro's, right? Jesus. America for the hat. Do you stick them in the hat? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you did the the soldiers usually would put the uh the the cigarette box in the band that was around their helmet, right? Helmet, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_08 3:47:13

You don't do that now. It's a bright color at a long distance, just saying.

SPEAKER_06 3:47:17

All flashy, all shiny.

SPEAKER_08 3:47:19

Not recommended to make yourself a reflective target, you know. Just you know, you learn that quite quickly, you know. The wisest words my stepdad ever told me. He said, Son, remember in combat, you'll be amazed how much of your body you can fit into your helmet.

SPEAKER_01 3:47:38

You know, I I forgot to mention this, but I met some very interesting people the other day who are um investing in a company in, I believe it's either in South South Africa or Australia, that has genetically modified tobacco to now have the cannabinoid biosynthetic pathway in it. So they could basically now grow tobacco plants that produce cannabinoids, right?

unknown 3:48:05

Really?

SPEAKER_01 3:48:05

I don't know what that's good for, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. I guess I guess what they're thinking was. So I asked them, I said, well, what about nicotine? Is there still and I I think they've manipulated the genetic pathway to dial out the nicotine and and produce cannabinoids, but then I scratched my head and I said, you know, the cannabis plant does really good at producing cannabinoids. I don't know why you need a natural ratio, not in a franken form, right? I I guess just in the way that people consume tobacco, if you could put cannabinoids into tobacco, right, and it tastes like tobacco, maybe it it smells like tobacco, but it don't work like tobacco.

SPEAKER_08 3:48:50

Well, well, what would that entitle? Well, CBG is the precursor, right? So getting C BG to take in the plant. C BGA, right? C BGA and how it takes.

SPEAKER_01 3:48:59

So so so they know now that we know all the genomics, we know the genes that code for those enzymes that basically create the cannabinoid biosynthetic pathway in cannabis, they could basically just take it from one plant and insert it into another with all the you know trappings of oh, it's genetically modified, and oh, this is going to create Franken whatever, you know. Um, maybe again, just to put to dial out the toxicity of tobacco, since tobacco is still consumed on such a large volume, and to put cannabinoids in there, you know, maybe there is something to that.

SPEAKER_08 3:49:38

Yeah, well, every time I go to Europe, I'm always amazed by how much cigarette smoking there is. Right. Hey, Caleb, what about your parents? Did your parents uh smoke cigarettes? I mean, you're a younger generation than us, and so ours were of that generation. So, did your parents tobacco use?

SPEAKER_02 3:49:57

No, my mom did not, but my dad uh picked up the habit when he was in the Navy.

SPEAKER_08 3:50:04

That will happen.

SPEAKER_02 3:50:08

But he stops whenever he's drunk, he loves to bump cigarettes off of people.

SPEAKER_05 3:50:17

Sounds about right. I only smoke when I drink, so I drink seven days a week. I don't buy them myself, I bum them. Yeah, I don't support that industry. Hey, could you uh could I get one of those off you?

SPEAKER_01 3:50:32

But you know, I'm gonna smoke is hilarious. It's a it's a pretty powerful drug, nicotine and tobacco absolutely. I I I we we we were at a uh uh outdoor concert, and believe me, I I I don't like tobacco smoking at all. Even in outdoor venues, it just it just bothers me when I smell that tobacco. And I watched this one tobacco guy, he he was chain smoking, literally tobacco guy as he as he stuffed out one, he lit another, stuffed out one, hit another, and it was just this non-stop. He must have smoked it. So we were at a jazz fest, which was outdoors and everything, so it was nice that it was outdoors. I think it was indoors, I would have moved away from where this guy was, but just chain smoking one right after another. I mean, we don't smoke cannabis like that. I don't know any well, except for Marcus when he's on Hash Church in Denver, right? But like, like I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 3:51:32

I mean, it must be the more the more stress. I mean, I watched here's just kind of a my kind of a view from when I went from I smoked before I went to war. Okay. And so when I went over, I would say about less than five percent of us in my unit were smokers. When we were on the front line, I would say closer to 80 percent were smoking. And there were a few of us and a few times when I was getting ready to go into combat, etc., we were doing that, literally taking the cherry from one cigarette and lighting the other just because of the anxiety and the stress that comes with mom possibly dying today, right? Shitty feeling, highly do not recommend it. Not very good for your survival instincts, etc. But it was then fascinating. Then when everybody came back, then everybody who was under that great stress, of course, quit that tobacco, and it went back to over time that small percentage, you know, of actual smokers. So, you know, it depends on stress and you know, environment affordability. You know, over in Europe, you know, I was over there a few times this year, and every time you see tobacco, I mean, they put pictures on there of what it does to your body, yeah. And I mean, some of the most vile pictures you're ever gonna see people voluntarily purchase on their tobacco every single time, but it doesn't seem to have the effect because the amount of people I still see smoking is exponential. So, what you're saying, the the drug that is nicotine has to be one of the most addictive drugs, and for me, it was the hardest thing to quit. Now, I've never gotten to heroin and all kinds of other shit, but tobacco was a very hard thing for me to finally quit, and it took years to finally say absolutely no.

SPEAKER_06 3:53:30

For me, it was an easy one not to start, yes, right? Yeah, lucky for you. I just fucking found it absolutely beyond but your parents both smoked, right, Marcus? Kind of my mom smoked when I was younger in the car type thing. My dad would like smoke a cigarello or a cigar every once in a while. Like it was, I wouldn't call him a smoker. Same with when I was probably like six or seven, or maybe younger, when my mom stopped smoking cigarettes. So for most of my life, my mom did not smoke cigarettes. Uh, and even my dad, I think he only picked up the cigar thing like years later when I was older, and we weren't like in a car with the windows closed because that was the heinous shit right there. That's probably what made me so sensitive to it. I would just turn green and throw up. I remember the first time I had breakfast in Amsterdam in the in '95, and people were just like chuffing cigarettes. And I don't know what the Spanish people have gone through to cause them such trauma, but that's the only place that I also saw people lighting cigarettes off their uh off of their butts and multiple times seeing a guy who accidentally lit two cigarettes before the other one was ready to be put out. So he was just smoking like both cigarettes. I was like, oh my god, this is fucking insane. Look, I don't mind if you smoke your thing over here or have a little, I just don't want to taste your addiction. You know what I mean? Like at a concert and stuff. Like it's why I generally won't go to a concert and smoke like 10 big fat joints. Because guess what? Believe it or not, a lot of the people don't want to fucking smell it. Bring something strong and powerful that you can just rip in one little out the puffco, blast out. This is great, little mushroom gummy, perfect. I just want to have a good time, but without affecting people in a negative way, the way I didn't care when I was younger. And generally smoking 10 like cigarettes in a row or smoking even 10 joints in a row, although to me it smells much better, it's still a smoky kind of uh experience. It's like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:55:33

And the the history of our of our country is is it's undeniable. The the influence that tobacco. So when when explorers first came to the Virginia colonies and they first kind of discovered tobacco, and then that got imported over to England as kind of like, ooh, see, this is why we have these colonies over in the new world, because they're producing this tobacco. And I think most of the founding fathers, if not all of them, were all tobacco farmers, right? Because it was a very important commodity in the 13 colonies to send back to Europe. Tobacco and ham. That that that that's right. It's interesting you mentioned that about Spain, because again, remember, Spain only was rivaled by England for casting its empire over in the New World, right? I mean, it was the Spanish who basically ran over uh uh Cortez, who ran over all the Aztecs and and whatnot. But you know, to go back to sort of like sensible regulation, so I think that's one of the reasons why tobacco kind of got the pass that it did in terms of regulation, because again, our country was founded by people who farmed tobacco, right? So they didn't want to shoot things.

SPEAKER_08 3:56:47

They were drunk off their fucking ass the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 3:56:51

Thanks for having me. They were also slave owners. So, you know, the the guy Thomas Jefferson himself, who penned, you know, in the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal, right? But it's okay for me to have a bunch of indentured slaves, right? It just doesn't make any sense at all. But I think that's one of the reasons why tobacco maintained and tobacco became a very powerful lobby against cannabis. I think people need to realize that that every time they go to the 7-Eleven or wherever they go and buy their cigarettes, money are going to billion-dollar corporations that have a dog in the fight to keep cannabis good and prohibited. Think about that cigarette smokers. They're relying on your habit to basically fill their coffers of uh with billions of dollars. These are billion-dollar corporations, right? Billion-dollar corporations.

SPEAKER_08 3:57:45

And they won't look, they won't touch cannabis because their their monopoly is on tobacco and they are not going to mess up their reality, although, which is why they have focused on the international market since they've lost their foothold that they used to have in the US market. They uh the world market opened up and they realized how much larger that is, and specifically the uh desire for American tobacco worldwide is uh they're literally making a killing ten times what they were in the United States, both figurally, literally, and financially.

SPEAKER_01 3:58:23

Yeah, from talking to some manufacturers in our end in the cannabis industry, tobacco is on the sideline, and they're waiting, I think, for regulation to kind of change a little bit to make this a little more hunky-dory. Because if you think about it, they have the production capacity. Oh, and the distance take a plant and make it they got the distribution, but think about it. They have the grinders, they have the rollers that yeah, everything multi-million dollar rollers, dude. Everything you need automated, like like you the grammar that you showed early on, they probably have that thing in spades, they probably have the microgrammer, the the multigrammer, the megagrammer, right? But you would think again that they would embrace this opportunity the same way, kind of like alcohol would, but they don't, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:59:18

And so they will when it shifts. They don't want to waste the money and time, they'll let it take its own place. But once they lose enough market share in the things they're focused on, once they watch alcohol just continue to get away. Well, that's why they have a drink sales.

SPEAKER_08 3:59:34

Altria, which is the tobacco brand, they've got drinks, and they've already been tasting the profits from that as they've watched the others dwindle. And they're getting, you know, I mean, those numbers are exponential in drinks, and which is fascinating to watch the United States kind of fuck around with this, where you would think those types of lobbies would be flexing uh at the national level to make sure something happens by November. I'm surprised to not see a more cohesive, or they have a plan for their whole situation, which is to let the small people die out so that they can corner the market themselves with their you know their larger manipulations. I mean, literally, St. Ides. I grew up on watching St. Ides, the malt liquor, which we used to buy at any convenience store, is now no longer in malt liquor, they're exclusively in cannabis. They're an exclusive cannabis company now, St. Ides. I've never seen that.

SPEAKER_01 4:00:37

I I think what we're gonna see in Dr. Jennifer Antonito's research. That was the um uh person who's down in Florida who's looking at a study to say, can cannabis beverages be replacement for alcohol beverages, you know, because you're holding on to a cold can of stuff, you're pouring it into your body, and you're feeling some type of effect on it. I think the market, right, ATN, has already shown that alcohol consumption is going down while these cannabis beverage consumption is going up. I don't think that's a happy accident.

SPEAKER_08 4:01:13

I think those two pharmaceuticals, too. I mean, it's it's it's it's multiple large industries are feeling the pull of cannabis. It's literally in its own orbit and it's just pulling things in, whether they want it or not.

SPEAKER_01 4:01:29

But I mean, specifically to the beverage market sector, do you do you I'm sure you've seen this data too? They're showing that basically the popularity of cannabis or cannabinoid based drinks is basically eating into the market share of big alcohol and big alcohol.

SPEAKER_06 4:01:45

I would say all of cannabis is eating into the share of alcohol, of which beverage are definitely a component.

SPEAKER_08 4:01:54

Large chunk, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:01:55

Um, it's there, it's definitely big.

SPEAKER_08 4:01:58

At least here in America market. What you if you've seen, you know, you can I can get drinks down at Bevmo up the street from me that I can't get in my own dispensary, which is kind of crazy if you think about it. But that's the reality, is there's so many diverse manufacturers, producers, regional producers, regional manufacturers. You know, now everybody that I know that is manufacturing and producing is now looking for their state to land in because if if November comes and the law goes into effect, they have to be back in their 10th amendment realities. There's no more interstate commerce. That shit's done. Comes to a screeching fucking halt. So there's so many dollars, and we're talking B's, billions of dollars, yes, that nothing is really happening to really change the course of what's coming. I mean, we're literally watching this entire industry running at a brick wall, except for again those states where you're going to be allowed to have and produce your own hemp beverages. And California is not one of those, whereas, you know, Georgia, you know, I don't know about Oklahoma. I know they're gonna be shut out in Illinois. So you're already starting, you're gonna see regional disappearance of products that the consumer has gotten used to. And what's unfortunate is you're gonna see then that more of that, you know, uh bathtub gin type stuff start to make its and appear on its way. And uh my our fear is of course harm done by people who are not good actors that are gonna produce similar products, um, and you know, people will get hurt, you know. Uh, we would prefer them all have these access, these legal products that are efficacious, safe, proven to be accessible. But now, due to arbitrary ideas, numbers, and perceptions, the consumer doesn't really give a fuck about, they just want their product. But legality, DEA, and now international law all get to combine and collide in a colossus way that affects the individual, that they're gonna be left wondering, well, I used to come and get this here in the refrigerator. Why is it no longer here?

SPEAKER_06 4:04:15

Yeah. Well, hopefully that happens less, and what happens more is that the products that are on those shelves aren't like full of shit they shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_08 4:04:29

I want to be wrong.

SPEAKER_06 4:04:30

In the meantime, I have one minute left. I'm so excited to go potentially electric skateboarding with my son, and then maybe take my wife uh to the gardening store, get some plants and some soil and some pots on Father's Day. Thank you for pot smoking. Yes, indeed. Thank you for pot smoking. Shout out to uh Scully Vibes for this mood, Matt. It's my all-time favorite. Low temp, low temp and scully vibes. Like, look at that. That's sweet, dude.

SPEAKER_08 4:05:00

I like the dancing the the rosin star there. Hell yeah, dude. Nobody captures a scene like he does.

SPEAKER_06 4:05:14

Thanks to uh Puffco. Uh thanks to the press club. Thank you guys for the support. Thank you guys for showing up, and uh, we'll see you next week. Thank you, Israel, for coming in and laying down some some heavy goodness for us uh on Hash Church.

SPEAKER_08 4:05:30

I feel like I learned about that for a while, though.

SPEAKER_06 4:05:33

I'm gonna be talking about it, dude. We're all gonna be I'm gonna go talk to people that don't even know about the negatives.

SPEAKER_08 4:05:40

I mean, there's all kinds of interesting ethical quandaries that come with this, right? Absolutely 100%.

SPEAKER_01 4:05:47

I just I had to share it, I couldn't keep it for myself. No, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 4:05:51

We need more good idea, we need more good people at Hash Church. If you guys haven't noticed, anytime you can help out with that, it would be greatly appreciated. Um, so thank you, Dr. Marcus.

SPEAKER_01 4:06:00

Marcus, maybe one of one of the things I'd like to do, uh maybe for a future episode, is let's try to get a doctor's episode. You know, we have a network of of cannabis doctors and clinicians who see patients.

SPEAKER_08 4:06:11

We just did Dr.

SPEAKER_01 4:06:12

Peter Grinspoon on our thing.

SPEAKER_08 4:06:14

Yeah, let's get some doctors on and let's hear thoughts and some nurses too, because uh nurse just did her study on um cannabis use disorder and can a nurse for each doctor, isn't that how it works? You know, uh well it they're just all pushing different frontiers and using their expertise and their lineage to move the needle forward because uh these nurses and doctors are also writing books on the issue for other nurses and doctors, right? Frontliners.

SPEAKER_06 4:06:45

All right, well, uh, so that's in the queue. You heard it here first. May the full melt bless your bowl sooner than later. I am out of here. Thanks for watching, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 4:06:55

Happy Father's Day, everybody. Yes, happy dad's day, y'all. Call your dad.