Themed Entertainment: Building Worlds, One Story at a Time - Part 2

In Part Two of our themed entertainment series, we shift the conversation to cost, budgeting, and what comes next. Jessica Busch is joined by Asif Parkar and Eugenie LeRoux to break down why so many themed projects stall, how early budgeting decisions make or break success, and why estimators, creative teams, and specialty vendors need to be aligned from day one. From managing complex show systems and emerging technology to prioritizing guest experience over facilities, this episode dives into the financial realities behind immersive destinations and what developers should be thinking about for the next generation of themed entertainment.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Jessica Busch: This is the Construction Insiders Podcast. I'm Jessica Busch bringing you the newest trends in strategies and construction essential to anyone in the industry. Welcome back to the Construction Insiders Podcast for our part two of the themed entertainment discussion. I'm sitting here with a Asif Parkar and Eugenie LeRoux, and we are going to dive in to all things cost, budget, and what's next. However, if you missed us, the first part on part one, this is what we talked about. 

[00:00:33] Eugenie LeRoux: Like I said, in the olden days you were looking at themed places. Yes. Now you are part of it. 

[00:00:40] Asif Parkar: We know that the US is a mature market. Mm-hmm. The theme park industry basically grew up here, but then you look at somewhere like the Middle East with a just explosive growth.

[00:00:48] Eugenie LeRoux: At the moment, there's more focus on sustainability because it is not a nice to have anymore, it is people want to see that you are sustainable and that you're thinking about the environment. 

[00:01:01] Jessica Busch: Asif. And I don't mean to, I know you're ready to go with some of these questions I have, but I have noticed, and I think maybe it was because the microphone was in front of it, but I noticed you have a new pin on your jacket, and so without embarrassing you too much, can you please explain to me.

[00:01:16] Jessica Busch: Why you're wearing this and when this showed up? 

[00:01:18] Asif Parkar: Oh, yeah. Uh, well, um, I was, uh, recognized as one of the top 50 influencers in the theme park industry at an event that was hosted by Bloo Loop yesterday. So they gave me a badge. 

[00:01:30] Jessica Busch: Oh, look at you. Okay. Congratulations. Well, well done. Well deserved. Well, wonderful.

[00:01:36] Jessica Busch: Okay, so I can't think of a better way. I'm, I'm glad I asked. I can't think of a better way to start off this next question then. I'll fire this one at you. Um, what are some of these key lessons that you've learned from these landmark builds and how do this kinda apply? Across every project, um, in this space, regardless of size?

[00:01:57] Asif Parkar: Yeah. Well, uh, I've been fortunate enough that over my last, I guess 10, 15 years, I've managed to work on a lot of the high profile projects, whether it's Dubai Parks and Resorts, which is actually a multi theme park project, quite a rare feat. Um, Shanghai, Disneyland, Warner Brothers, Abu Dhabi, and the Universal Beijing Resort.

[00:02:15] Asif Parkar: And more recently Epic, uh, universe, in addition to a whole bunch of attractions and so on. And, um, I would say in my experience, the projects that fare the best are those where you have a strong structure and particularly a strong project leader or leaders, and they tend to follow a hierarchy. And that hierarchy, if you picture a pyramid.

[00:02:42] Asif Parkar: At the top of the pyramid. At the apex there you've got safety, no doubt about it. You know, a safety incident in the industry or any project is very impact impactful for the entire industry. So right at the top is safety, but just below that is guest experience. We do these projects to excite, delight, and leave, uh, guests with wonderful memories.

[00:03:03] Jessica Busch: Sight delight. I love that.

[00:03:04] Asif Parkar: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:05] Asif Parkar: That's what it's all about. So you have guest experience then. And then just below that, you have operations, right? These projects need to be run efficiently, need to be run profitably and need to be run.

[00:03:17] Jessica Busch: Which we talked about a little bit.

[00:03:18] Asif Parkar: Exactly.

[00:03:19] Jessica Busch: Part one. Yes.

[00:03:19] Asif Parkar: Yeah. 

[00:03:20] Asif Parkar: Safely as well. So that's very important as well. Then at the base of the pyramid, down at the bottom, you have facility. Mm. Now this is the really important point. Facilities. Basically, if you think of an attraction building mm-hmm. Facility is the box. The box is there purely to receive the theming in the show.

[00:03:37] Asif Parkar: It shouldn't be what guests see. So the best projects are the ones where they prioritize in that. Hierarchy in that order and make sure that not too much money's being diverted to facility. It's about the guest experience, of course. So that's why those projects need to prioritize and they're the best ones.

[00:03:55] Asif Parkar: There's lots of examples where the hierarchy wasn't followed, and unfortunately you're left with, um, a great roof, uh, with minimal guest experiences inside. You probably know some of them, right?

[00:04:08] Jessica Busch: I saw her, yeah.

[00:04:09] Asif Parkar: Yeah.

[00:04:09] Jessica Busch: Trying to quiet her laugh over there a little bit.

[00:04:11] Jessica Busch: But yes, everyone, I'm sure, especially with your perspective, you can walk in to a situation like that and immediately see when that, yeah, yeah.

[00:04:19] Jessica Busch: Hierarchy was not followed.

[00:04:20] Asif Parkar: It's, it's really, really apparent. I think just one other thing that I would add is it's also really important on these projects that they start off with a budget. And that budget is typically prepared, um, with the assistance of feasibility consultants because they do their research right, and they look at the market and so on.

[00:04:38] Asif Parkar: But very, very rarely are the estimators involved at that point. Hmm. And that's, that's. Really damaging for a lot of projects. Because what happens is that the feasibility consultants do their work. They'll do the revenue. How many people are gonna come to the park? How much are going, are they gonna spend, so that's the sort of the revenue side of things, right?

[00:04:56] Asif Parkar: And then they'll know what the client or the developer is looking for in terms of R.O.I return on investment,

[00:05:02] Jessica Busch: what the expectation is there.

[00:05:03] Asif Parkar: Yeah. And they do a sort of reverse calc and they get to what's called a warranted investment number. That is the budget. But you can see that there's no sort of process for an estimator to validate that.

[00:05:15] Asif Parkar: So what typically happens, and I call this the cycle of death, is that feasibility cycle happens and then a master plan is brought on board to do some designs, and then the estimator is brought on board and lo and behold, we do our bottoms up analysis or benchmarking, and it doesn't conform to the,

[00:05:31] Jessica Busch: it seems backwards.

[00:05:32] Asif Parkar: Yeah. And unfortunately that's when you get that, you know, fork in the road, projects stall, stop, or probably they die . 

[00:05:40] Jessica Busch: That's why he said so many more fall a sad death. 

[00:05:44] Asif Parkar: Yeah.

[00:05:44] Jessica Busch: And then come

[00:05:45] Asif Parkar: exactly

[00:05:46] Jessica Busch: to fruition and stay open. 

[00:05:47] Asif Parkar: Exactly. Now the solution to that is quite straightforward and that is have the estimator involved in the feasibility studies.

[00:05:53] Asif Parkar: Exactly. Right. And I can think of a couple of recent examples worked on a project in Singapore, Uhhuh and another one in the US where we actually, we are at the table while the feasibility consultants were doing their work. Now they did their work just like they normally would, right. But we were able to see what the investment, the warranty investment number was, and we were able to say.

[00:06:11] Asif Parkar: You can't build a project for that work that doesn't, that doesn't work. We don't need a lot of drawings at that point, but we can tell you straight away with the information that we've got, with the benchmarking that we've got, and then. Because we're at the table with them. 

[00:06:23] Asif Parkar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:23] Asif Parkar: There's a fantastic opportunity to work collaboratively.

[00:06:26] Jessica Busch: Right. 

[00:06:27] Asif Parkar: So we help them and we might, might ask a few questions on the revenue side, but they sort of tweak a few of the numbers on that end. Mm-hmm. And then we look at the, the other end of it, maybe work with the master plan, look at the program itself, and then together. We actually can work together to get the numbers to align from both ends so that everyone's happy.

[00:06:43] Asif Parkar: Right. The ROI still works. Mm-hmm. The revenue side. Yeah. We've got basis behind that and there's a good basis for that, uh, investment number. Right. Those projects that I mentioned, they went forward, they got green lit, and you know, the project was successful. Yeah. So that's, that's the preferred way of doing things.

[00:06:57] Jessica Busch: Right. Well, that's a good lesson learned to mention. 

[00:07:00] Jessica Busch: Significant.

[00:07:01] Eugenie LeRoux: Opposite is, which we've seen so many times, is like Asif was saying you, you have the budgetary investment and then a master plan and then estimators come along and completely different numbers. Mm-hmm. And then the minute when that happens, that is immediately when the schedule starts slipping.

[00:07:20] Eugenie LeRoux: Mm-hmm. Because now. We can't afford it. So now there is time spent on redesign, there is time spent on, does the numbers work out? And what originally was a schedule, this is how long this is gonna take. And it's always a tight schedule. 

[00:07:36] Eugenie LeRoux: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:37] Eugenie LeRoux: Your schedule immediately starts slipping and

[00:07:39] Jessica Busch: which also costs more money,

[00:07:40] Eugenie LeRoux: fees or more because they have to redesign.

[00:07:43] Eugenie LeRoux: So, um, that is, I think, the most crucial thing is to get the estimators involved right from the start. 

[00:07:51] Jessica Busch: Yeah. Eugenie, themed entertainment, talking about cost and how things can slip. Mm-hmm. Um, due to the complexity of managing cost on a major themed experience, how does that differ compared to a pro, like an office project or schools?

[00:08:11] Jessica Busch: I mean, what are these unique challenges that you're, you're faced with in having to navigate? 

[00:08:16] Eugenie LeRoux: That's a good question. So, um, let's call it. I'm just going to categorize it as themed entertainment or non themed entertainment. Okay. Which is schools or office or whatever. Those are all what we would call standard construction.

[00:08:31] Jessica Busch: The non themed. Okay.

[00:08:32] Eugenie LeRoux: The focus is possibly more on. You know, being more efficient. Mm-hmm. However, when you come to themed entertainment, it is very, very different. So your, let's call it your standard buildings, it's just one component of the themed entertainment project. And the other part is really the complex creative design that you really need to think of.

[00:08:56] Eugenie LeRoux: Mm-hmm. And that is. Basically, what is the cost of creating these immersive experiences? Okay. Um, which is a lot of times, technology that doesn't exist already and...

[00:09:09] Jessica Busch: Building for technology that doesn't exist. 

[00:09:10] Eugenie LeRoux: Yeah and you have to look at, you know, a beautiful rendering and see, okay, I look at the rendering and I'm looking at the design narrative or a story, and you need to go, okay, I need to allow for special effects.

[00:09:23] Eugenie LeRoux: And if I read the storyline, you need to know, oh, there is electronics and there is, you know, it's all these things that are not spelled out, whereas. A facility, they door, its windows, brick walls or stucco, whatever. 

[00:09:38] Asif Parkar: Oh, and just to add to those great points, Eugenie, um. I also see a difference in terms of theme versus non theme with regards to story.

[00:09:48] Asif Parkar: Now story is what the creative team is responsible for, and that story is sometimes very apparent and sometimes it's really subtle. So I'll give you a couple of examples. When you go to Forbidden Journey at Universal Studios mm-hmm. There's no doubt what that attraction is about. What it's themed on.

[00:10:04] Jessica Busch: Right. 

[00:10:05] Asif Parkar: When you go to Disney, California Adventure. I don't know if most of the sort of guests that that visited really understand the backstory behind it. It's rather subtle, but the backstory is recreating a time when Walt Disney himself came to California, and that's why that project, when they reimagined, it includes Carthay Circle Theatre. Carthay Circle Theatre doesn't exist anymore in LA. But it did when Walt Disney was there. Okay. In fact, it's very important 'cause it played Snow White for the very first time. So there's an example where there's a story and I love hearing about those backstories, but most of the general, uh, public probably aren't aware of it.

[00:10:41] Jessica Busch: I mean, did you see the look on my face? I was like, okay.

[00:10:43] Asif Parkar: But it's for, I'll give you another one actually. So Jessica, can you tell me before Mickey Mouse, who was the character that Walt had designed? 

[00:10:52] Jessica Busch: Oh, don't quiz me on this. I have no idea. 

[00:10:55] Asif Parkar: You can research this later, but there was a rabbit. And the rabbit's name was Oswald.

[00:10:59] Asif Parkar: Yes. Oh, that's Now how do they weave the story of Oswald within Disney, California Adventure? Well, for your viewers do know that there's a line in the paving. Now, just explain this. You can meet Oswald as long as you are at the entrance Oswald. You'll see him there and you can interact with Oswald .

[00:11:18] Asif Parkar: However, if you cross that line, you're going past 1928. Which is the arrival of Mickey Mouse. 

[00:11:27] Jessica Busch: So no more Oswald. 

[00:11:28] Asif Parkar: No more Oswald. So Oswald will never cross that line, and Mickey Mouse will never cross this way. Isn't that funny?

[00:11:34] Jessica Busch: I feel like whenever I finally take my family, I'm gonna make you,

[00:11:37] Asif Parkar: you're gonna look for that?

[00:11:38] Jessica Busch: I'm, no, I'm gonna make you come with me to explain all these things.

[00:11:41] Eugenie LeRoux: And meet Oswald

[00:11:41] Asif Parkar: Plenty of other stories and secrets.

[00:11:43] Jessica Busch: So I'm just gonna make you show up with my family. Perfect. Okay.

[00:11:48] Jessica Busch: I can, I can sense a lot of challenges with something like this. Mm-hmm. Um. Custom fabrication, the show systems, integrating all of that, it can only wreak havoc in terms of money and budget.

[00:12:03] Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:03] Jessica Busch: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:04] Jessica Busch: Asif, I'm gonna throw this one at you. 

[00:12:06] Asif Parkar: Alright. I would agree. Yeah, it does.

[00:12:08] Jessica Busch: How uniquely difficult is this? 

[00:12:10] Asif Parkar: I think, um. The response to that really deserves an hour, but in, in the short term, sure.

[00:12:17] Jessica Busch: I'm not gonna give you that long. So. 

[00:12:19] Asif Parkar: Okay. So I'll try and condense it to a couple things. Look, I've, I've worked on many types of projects from data centers to schools, to libraries to civil, et cetera, et cetera, and I can tell you that, um.

[00:12:32] Asif Parkar: There's a couple of areas which really define the uniqueness and the difference between a theme project and a non theme project, and it starts with design. Okay. So it's only on theme projects where you have this mysterious group of individuals that comprise a creative design team. So show producers and executive directors and FADS. And animatronics.

[00:12:53] Jessica Busch: On construction project. Yes.

[00:12:54] Asif Parkar: Right? It's like, why would you have them on a c on a school project? Of course you wouldn't. That's ridiculous. This group comes together for these types of projects in a really unique way, and if you haven't worked on these projects, you wouldn't know how to work with them.

[00:13:08] Asif Parkar: The creative team needs room at the start just to breathe and develop their ideas. This is a really important thing, so as an estimator. You cannot throw the budget noose around them too soon. Hmm. You actually have to let them develop their ideas and then the, the ideas mushroom out and then your role later on comes to try and squeeze all that back into a budget box.

[00:13:28] Asif Parkar: So, and to be clear, the creative team is not, instead of the a A&E, the architecture and engineering team mm-hmm. It's in addition to, so you can see right there, there's additional cost.

[00:13:39] Jessica Busch: You're adding more cooks in the kitchen.

[00:13:40] Asif Parkar: Right. So there's an additional soft cost there. So just understanding the creative process that's key difference. And then let's touch upon scope. So for, as Eugene mentioned on a traditional project, uh, you'll have concrete steel, masonry and so on, and a theme park project will have those things as well. And in the case of let's say exterior plaster, a estimator that's been estimating for a period of time, they can understand the nuances for theme plaster versus maybe regular plaster that they've priced before because there's a relationship, right?

[00:14:11] Asif Parkar: Yeah. So they can understand that. But then you get to other scopes of work. Show now, this is where the magic happens. And what do we mean by show? It's things like animatronics, artificial foliage, content creation, and uh, props and so on. And the important thing is all those things I've mentioned then are not subsets of what you might learn as an estimator for general construction. So I've had this situation where a 30 year estimating veteran will walk into the office and say, Asif I wanna work on theme park projects. And I've done lots of project types and there's no doubt that the individual has. But if I say, well, how would you price show action equipment?

[00:14:51] Asif Parkar: And they'll say, well what's that? Mm, okay. So that answers that. How would you price an animatronic figure? And what we're trying to do is a beast. So it's gonna have, you know, fur skin and it's gonna be 10 foot tall and it's got 15 functions and it's gonna have, uh, LED effects as well. And it's a first in kind 

[00:15:10] Jessica Busch: their eyes just place over.

[00:15:12] Asif Parkar: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:15:13] Asif Parkar: So these are the types of things, and this is the beauty as well. So it's not for, for everybody. Some people are cut out just for night. Nice straight lines, Costco type boxes. But you know, if that's where you're sort of wired, then this is not the industry to be in because you're not gonna find many straight lines there.

[00:15:27] Jessica Busch: I was gonna say, I don't hear any straight lines in what you're talking about. 

[00:15:31] Asif Parkar: Exactly. Okay. So all of that, and I've not even spoken about the rides, so when you have rides, okay, so is it a kitty ride? Is it what's called a, you know, a family ride? Like an omni mover ride, which is something like a haunted mansion.

[00:15:43] Asif Parkar: Okay. Is it a. Thrill ride and the obvious example being in a coaster. And if it's a coaster, is it gravity or is it launch coaster? And then, oh, this, so so you get the idea. Yeah. They're just a lot more scope to pick up. And that's, you know, that's not for everyone, but that's what you need to do. But I would add this if, if, um.

[00:16:03] Asif Parkar: If you enjoy puzzles. Mm-hmm. I love working on these projects during the early stages because it's just one huge puzzle, and bringing the pieces together and seeing the numbers form together, it, there's a lot of satisfaction with that. And then you can kind of stand back and, and often you end up with a a thousand page estimate.

[00:16:18] Asif Parkar: So there's, there's quite a sense of achievement. There's not a lot of folks that can pull that all together. Right. 

[00:16:22] Jessica Busch: Is that, is that one of your interview questions? Exactly. Do you back puzzling? Are you a puzzler?

[00:16:26] Asif Parkar: Yeah, I'll add that.

[00:16:28] Eugenie LeRoux: That's a good question. Um.

[00:16:32] Jessica Busch: Wow. Okay. So for developers that are embarking or maybe embarking on one of their first, um, major destinations or experiences in the near future Eugenie, what are maybe three essential tips you'd give them?

[00:16:46] Jessica Busch: Um, kinda on the financial and, and project man management side. 

[00:16:50] Eugenie LeRoux: One of the key things is to basically set the budget and stay within the budget right from a start. So once that budget is established, the whole team agreed to it, and the whole team knows that we are gonna design to this number, and the budget is supposed to be the budget for all duration then.

[00:17:15] Eugenie LeRoux: Another really key thing is like Asif was saying, get the estimator involved right from a start. And the other thing is, um, when it comes to vendors, get specialty vendors, that's like your show and ride Vendors. Mm-hmm. Get them involved as soon as possible because they will be able to tell the architectural instructional team what is their needs, what, how much power they need, what they need where, and it's a really complicated process.

[00:17:43] Eugenie LeRoux: So if you can get them involved from a start, and they are part of your design team, I'll say, mm-hmm. That really helps. And you sign them up early. Which helps them to start, you know, getting all their stuff together, getting the production going. 'cause if one of these shows specialty, um, vendors basically get delayed, it can have a really bad effect on the rest of it where the whole program is being delayed and it's, it's always somebody else that relies on you because the critical path, right?

[00:18:15] Eugenie LeRoux: So I would say that is possibly the. Big things that I would recommend. 

[00:18:20] Jessica Busch: So a big theme of just getting everyone involved. Yeah. Much, much sooner than you would in any other sector.

[00:18:25] Eugenie LeRoux: Yeah and then when it comes to value engineering, like as you was saying, you spend the money with the case experiences not on back of house, and what is the best value for the.

[00:18:36] Eugenie LeRoux: For the, whether it's a theme park or themed entertainment, uh, family retire center, always look at what's the best value for the client and where to spend money. 

[00:18:46] Jessica Busch: Putting the money in the guest experience. Mm-hmm. Okay.

[00:18:49] Jessica Busch: So how, um, how does this technology and the evolution of technology, how is that, um, impacting the construction process these days?

[00:18:59] Jessica Busch: Um, or is it. Or is it? I guess is the question. 

[00:19:03] Eugenie LeRoux: Well, big time because, um, well, simplest things possibly think about BIM, which is such a key model to make sure that when you come to theme party there's so many more. Um, you need, for data, um, you know, all these different services that all need to work together and controls.

[00:19:25] Eugenie LeRoux: Mm-hmm. So if you have your BIM and everybody works on BIM, you can make really sure that everything works out and there is no mm-hmm. You know, no conflicts when it comes to different, um, substance, your mechanical system for your rides and to show components which needs certain controls, that's all happening at the same spot.

[00:19:45] Eugenie LeRoux: So that is. AI is really, really, um, extremely useful for that. Okay. And then obviously they use AI to announce the experience basically with all your, uh, evidence, um, animatronics. Mm-hmm. Making it more smooth, more efficient. It will basically. The system would help with simple things like booking and to, um, even facial recognition.

[00:20:12] Eugenie LeRoux: Mm-hmm. When people go into a park. Yes. Just to reduce whatever waiting time there can be to basically take care of all of that. And then obviously. To do all these immersive experiences. You are, you are heavily gonna rely on that to, to do your VR and AR and also the controls for it, especially if you combine for sales especially effects and sound system and everything.

[00:20:37] Eugenie LeRoux: So all of that AI is a huge help in the team, in the general.

[00:20:41] Jessica Busch: But also really impacting, it sounds like construction and, and, um, the facilities needed to house... 

[00:20:47] Eugenie LeRoux: Exactly.

[00:20:48] Jessica Busch: The back end of that. Okay. Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:51] Jessica Busch: So, Asif, turning to you real quick here. I think a natural state after talking about technology, how does the next five, 10 years, what does that, what does that look like?

[00:21:03] Jessica Busch: What, um, excites you the most I've seen before? What gets you excited about looking forward in themed entertainment? Um, and what should we be watching out for? 

[00:21:14] Asif Parkar: I think, um, technology is a big part of that. Mm-hmm. And where AI is gonna go, who knows. But right now, uh, I think the sky's the limit Creative folks, of course, they have more tools to play with now, so.

[00:21:26] Asif Parkar: Right.

[00:21:26] Jessica Busch: Yeah. Right. They're happy.

[00:21:28] Asif Parkar: And even if you look at the latest animatronics. I went to a park the other day and I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell. And I was asking my family, is that live performer, is that an animatronic? I mean, it's just incredible. Right.

[00:21:38] Jessica Busch: Well, it's incredible that that's a question you're asking because you have a very critical eye when it comes to this.

[00:21:42] Asif Parkar: I know. I know. And that they caught me out. But it's, it's fantastic. So that's really exciting where it's gonna go. Um, look, throughout this whole sort of podcast, we've spoken about so many new projects. Mm-hmm. So I think, you know, we have turned that corner post COVID, and so there's just a lot of projects and it's not just theme parks, right?

[00:22:02] Asif Parkar: Mm-hmm. So themed entertainment space covers so much. It's zoos, it's aquariums, it's FECs, it's the, it's touching so many, the smaller experiences, right? Things now. Yeah. So I think the sky's the limit. What excites me the most is really, um, the opportunities for the next generation. Mm. Right. And um. They have opportunities to work on these types of projects way more than let's say, 15 years ago.

[00:22:26] Asif Parkar: Part of that is education. I think there's more courses now Yeah. Out there. And I'd love, I'd love to see those, whether it's in Florida or Las Vegas, or USC does a great course. Mm. These are fantastic for the industry. So I think these are things, um, I'm getting on a bit, so I'm looking for the next generation to step up and it's, it's a wonderful space to be in, you know?

[00:22:45] Asif Parkar: Yeah. So, uh, I'm really excited for the next generation. I think it's just a tremendous amount of upside. 

[00:22:51] Jessica Busch: Awesome. Eugenie, anything for you to close out here? 

[00:22:55] Eugenie LeRoux: Yeah, you know what, um, I think what we, we would see in the future mm-hmm. Is your big IP brands, um, that is such a big attraction for everybody. Yes.

[00:23:06] Eugenie LeRoux: Will continue to have more experiences. So for instance, um, if there's popular. Podcast or if there's popular TV shows that there will be more and more experiences that is based on those IPS. 

[00:23:20] Jessica Busch: So you're saying, is that kinda the direction with, with Netflix, is that what you're referring to it on 

[00:23:24] Eugenie LeRoux: Netflix.

[00:23:25] Eugenie LeRoux: Okay. Yeah. But the, because you are, if you have a very well-known IP mm-hmm. You are guaranteed that the visitors will come.

[00:23:33] Jessica Busch: The fans of that IP.

[00:23:34] Eugenie LeRoux: Exactly. 

[00:23:35] Eugenie LeRoux: So I think some of the IPS that maybe not necessarily Disney and universal, but popular TV shows or stuff like that will definitely have more themed entertainment experiences.

[00:23:48] Jessica Busch: Wonderful. Um, well this has been absolutely fascinating, um, but I think I gotta cut it here. Uh, the scale, the complexity, the creativity, everything involved in themed entertainment, um, it's, it's truly remarkable and it's wonderful to hear you guys sit and talk and discuss this. So, thank you. Um. And for our listeners, whether you're in construction or development, um, or just curious about what's going on in themed entertainment.

[00:24:15] Jessica Busch: Thank you for joining in. Um, hopefully this has given you a, a better appreciation for everything that goes on behind the scenes to create these memorable experiences. Um, so if you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, review, um, wherever you get your podcasts. We would much appreciate it. And until next time, keep building the future.

[00:24:35] Jessica Busch: Thank you. 

[00:24:36] Brad Ducey: Thank you for joining us for the Construction Insiders Podcast. You can continue the conversation by leaving a comment, asking a question, or participating in our poll. You can also visit us cumming-group.com for more great resources from the most trusted team in the built environment. And don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date on our latest episodes.