The Meisha Rouser Show : Leadership and Professional Development, with Organizational Psychologist and Master Certified Coach
The Meisha Rouser Show : Leadership and Professional Development, with Organizational Psychologist and Master Certified Coach
34: Fostering a Supportive Environment – Dealing with Dominate Personalities
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Welcome to the Misha Rouser Show. I'm Misha, an organizational psychologist, and I'll be taking you down a path towards achieving professional success while still having fun. For over a decade, I have been guiding individuals and organizations through professional transition. The goal is to help you, your business or organization create a successful, engaging atmosphere without sacrificing a positive culture. So let's get started. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Misha Rouser Show. And of course, I am Misha, and thank you so much for listening. Again, this show is all about your professional and leadership development, everything you need to know about communication, personal productivity, leading without authority, emotional intelligence, and so much more. So what we are going to be talking about today is going to be talking about those people who have maybe really strong personalities in like with meetings or that we work with, and it's hard for everybody to be heard. So how do we create a more inviting environment? How do we create an environment where others feel like they are being heard, that their opinion matters? So how do we manage those who are a little more dominant and how do we bring out those who are a little more quiet? So that's what our topic is going to be today. Um before we get into that though, let's go over a few logistics. One is if um, Benny, if anybody wanted to call in and share any questions or anything, what would they call?
SPEAKER_03Sure, they can join us at 425-373-5527 or 88-298-5569. Numbers again, 425-373-5527 or 888-298-5569.
SPEAKER_05Awesome. Okay, so if you have any burning questions, please do call in. If you are shy, or if your questions pop up afterwards or you're listening to one of my podcasts, you are welcome to send me your questions online. So if you go to my website, you can contact me there and send me your questions there. I love getting feedback from you guys. It just really means a lot to me. So any questions that you have, go to MishaRouser.com and that's spelled M-E-I-S-H-A-R-O-U-S-E-R dot com. And I would love to hear from you. When you go to my website, you can also um listen to past shows. I am slowly getting all of the um transcripts uploaded from past shows as well, so you can get those. Also, you can link over to iTunes or Stitchers and do an RSS feed and get the podcasts so that you um get those automatically in your inbox every week, which is awesome. So a lot of um resources and things there on my website. So take advantage of that as well. Okay, so we are gonna go ahead and jump into our subject matter then. And so again, are your conversations dominated by a few people? Or um, you know, what about those people who tend not to listen? They are more concerned with getting their points across and they don't really even create space for others to get their information across or their point across or to share. So how do you deal with that? All right, so here's some tips that we're gonna be going into. One is to really be thinking about, well, why are they doing what they're doing? Okay, because human nature, we our brain just always naturally wants to categorize things, label things, judge things. We just do that. One of the things we do want to check then is when this is happening, is try not to judge the other person. Um, you know, thinking that they're, you know, just selfish, only thinking about themselves, they're just overbearing and so forth. So one is check your own judgment on this. Usually, that type of behavior, the person um really usually has no idea how overbearing they can be. Especially if they're younger in your organization, they're still learning those things. Um, because especially those millennials, remember, we taught them, you know, to be outspoken and to say what needs to be said and so forth. And so that's when they come to work for you, is what they're doing. So again, we don't want to be judging people. So just be thinking about that. Okay, so then the other thing too is be wondering, like if they're really passionate about something, really negative, and in one meeting, for example, and every week they just come and you're trying to to maybe, you know, this meeting is a team of you trying to do something different or create something different, and they are just the you know, negative Nancy's and so forth. Well, kind of be thinking about why is that? They're really passionate about that, but so there might be something else going on. And so maybe it's having a conversation with them outside of the meeting, just one-on-one, to find out, you know, what is it that really has got them, you know, that's really making them so passionate and resistant to this. Um and and sometimes talking about it, they don't even realize they are until they can talk to you one-on-one, and then it kind of comes out and they're like, yeah, I just I didn't realize I had so much um resistance against this because of this. All right, then the other one too is do they even realize that they are dominating the conversation? A lot of times people don't. Uh they just think that, oh, well, everybody else out there, you know, they're not saying anything because they just don't have anything else to say. And I don't want, you know, that awkward silence in the meeting, so I'll just keep talking. And it's like, no, they do have something else to say. It's just you're not giving them space to be able to do that. And again, a lot of times that could be depending on their personality type. That could be depending on um if they're younger and they still haven't quite that maturity yet of when to hold back and allow that space and so forth. So that's one of the things to be thinking about. Okay, what could be driving that behavior and are they even aware of it? All right, so now then let's go to, okay, what if um you know, they maybe might might not be aware of it, or you do have to have a conversation with them. How do you have that conversation? There's a couple of different ways you can do that. Is um one, obviously, you know, talk to them outside of the meeting if you could. And and and here's what I want you to think about too when you're doing this, is um you usually want to tell them that you, you know, you really like that they're, you know, um involved in the meeting, that they have a lot of passion, that they have a lot of ideas. So you don't want to stifle that. So what you really got to watch here is when you s you know when you give them a compliment saying, you know, like John, I really love your interaction in the meetings, and I love how involved you are with them, and I love your passion. Okay, so you always want to start with something positive there. But here's what we want to s really watch is we really want to watch what we say right after that. And what I'm getting at is the conjunctions. We tend to then use a conjunction uh to move into the next statement of what you're wanting. It's like, but you know, John, I really need you to maybe, you know, create space for others. Really watch using the word but. When you do that, that junction, that conjunction actually negates what you just said. And so even subliminally, when they're thinking about this, they are um you gate paid them a compliment, but when you use the word but, you just negated what that compliment. So really watch when you're giving them this feedback. You don't want to use but. Use and or just make two separate statements. So again, John, you know, I really love the way that you're engaged in our meetings. I love how passionate you are, I love the ideas. I do feel that there are others in our meeting though that their voice is not being heard. Maybe because their personality style, they're a little more quiet, they need more time to think. I would love to create a space where we can give them the opportunity to. Do you have some suggestions? Okay, so that could be one way that you could deal with it. If um, you know, in that way too, that raises their awareness that maybe they're dominating the conversation a little too much. Um, and that's a really nice way for them to engage and say, Oh, you know, I didn't even realize that. I'll try to be more conscientious of it. Sometimes you might just have to get a little firmer. You may have to really just say, you know, John, again, I love your ideas, I love your engagement and and and your passion around this. There are some other people that I would love to also hear from. And so I I would like to be able to create this space more in our meetings for them to be able to speak up. So I don't there are gonna be times that I may cut you off a little bit or you may feel like I'm cutting you off so I could hear those other people. I just want you to know I'm not doing that person, you know. I've it it's not against you. I just am trying to deliberately create space for others too. And I just wanted to let you know that I'll be doing that. Okay, so those are a couple different ways that you can be dealing with this. Um okay, I want to do a fun little game to kind of real quick then before we do a commercial break. Sure. And and so this is gonna be really important too, and this is this goes into also with meetings and such, but first I'm gonna do a little game with Benny here to do an example. So, Benny, you and Okay, so you and I are going to create a vacation together. Oh, okay. Okay, yeah. So you see Please somewhere warm. Easy fine. Well, actually, I'm gonna let you choose where we go.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_05Now here's the rules of how we're gonna do this, though. So you're gonna tell us where we're gonna go. From that point forward, we're gonna build back and forth. You say something, I say something, you say something, I say something. Oh, okay. Before we say anything though, we have to say yeah, but. So if you say, um, let's go to Alaska, then that would be the start. Then I will say, yeah, but it's a little cold there. How about if we dud it up? And then you say yeah, but and then you add to it. Okay. Okay, easy peasy. I think I got it. We're only gonna do it for about 30 seconds, it's pretty quick. All right, all right. Okay, where do you want to go first? Uh let's let's go to Hawaii. Okay, so now we're gonna start with our yeah, but some build. So yeah, but I do love Hawaii. I wanna make sure I bring lots of sunscreen because it could be really sunny there. What do you want to do there?
SPEAKER_03Well, let's go.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, but you know, I mean, you don't really need it though, necessarily. I mean, we'll be undercover most of the time while we're there.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but what if when we're in the water and are we gonna go scuba diving and stuff?
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, but I mean it's safe. I mean, the it's there's no sharks in the area where we're gonna go.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but I don't want to be under the shade the whole time.
SPEAKER_03What if we go hiking? Nah, I kind of wanted to be more on the beach a little bit more. Yeah, but okay.
SPEAKER_05All right, so I'm gonna pause this here for a second. Now pay attention to that one.
SPEAKER_03I mean, it's not either of us are trying to control it, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it feels like like the two of us is like, okay, I'm really not feeling like we're building something. So we're gonna go to Hawaii.
SPEAKER_03I guess that we're out.
SPEAKER_05Right. Okay, so let's do a different one. Let's do the exact same thing. You can either pick a new place or a different place. But this time, instead of doing the yeah buts, uh-huh, we're gonna say yes and. So before we say anything, we have to say yes and. Okay.
SPEAKER_03I think all right, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so where do you want to go? Same place, different place?
SPEAKER_03Let's I want to go somewhere else. I'm feeling let's go to Spain. Yes, and we could do the running with the bowls. Oh, I'm all about it. Let's let's do it. Yes, and yes, and um, oh, we can also um I think they have the the tomato tossing there, don't they? Tomato tossing, yes, and I'll let you do the tomato tossing. Yes, because I've always wanted to do it. Oh, and then um we could do a lot of wine tasting.
SPEAKER_05Yes, and I'm not a wine taster, but I love doing and seeing the countryside.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, all right. I can and oh, yes, and we can also um see my family because they're from there.
SPEAKER_05Yes, and let's spend some time without your family too. Okay, perfect example. That was great, Betty.
SPEAKER_04I'm all excited now. Okay, so now we know traveling.
SPEAKER_05I don't want to be here right now. Don't want to be here right now. I know, it's kind of gloomy. Yeah, no. Okay, sorry I did that to you, Betty. Okay, but part of that exercise, though, was trying to point out that sometimes when we have those people who are really dominant in the meetings, they're a yeah butter. And it's and you know, so like with us even trying to build our vacation, when we were doing the yeah buts and we were in that kind of a yeah butt environment, it kind of was sucky. Yeah. For lack of a better word.
SPEAKER_04Technical word there. Sucky.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. But when we did yeah butt or yes and it all got positive. Right. And it we did it, we weren't perfectly agreeing with each other, but we weren't slamming each other either. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I can see that happening quite a bit in most places.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_03I think a lot of people are realizing that right now.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. Okay, so before we go to a commercial break, then to wrap that up, the biggest lesson I wanted you to get out of that one is how to create a yes and environment and get rid of the yeah buts. And even what I usually do, a lot of my meetings when I'm in the very beginning, when I'm setting up ground rules, like when we have a team that just came together, I will have them do this little exercise that took Benny and I have two minutes. And did that not get the point across really quickly about, okay, let's really watch each other. And when we hear each other say yeah, but, just say, mm, sorry, you did a yeah but, and then they're like, okay, yes. And it just creates much more positive environment. Okay, so we're gonna take a quick commercial break, and when we get back, we're gonna continue on with dealing with how to make a more inclusive environment, especially within your teams.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and we can hear more from our great sponsors.
SPEAKER_00Yes, dynamic careers in organizations require dynamic thinking. Success is measured in terms of positive, productive, meaningful workplaces. Richard Rouser, master coach, organizational psychologist, and successful entrepreneur has helped thousands become more confident in their leadership and professional abilities. Richard's years of research and private practice have given her the tools to help you or your organization improve performance. Log on now to learn more about coaching, consulting or training with MishaRouser at MishaRouser.com. That's M-E-I-S-H-A-R-O-U-S-E-R.com.
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unknowntalking to the gate and boy.
SPEAKER_05Welcome back to the Misha Rouser Show. And oh Vinny, that song brings back memories of um when I got my first job offer out of college. And my colleague got my friend of mine also got a job offer. And so we're going into the real world and we were out at the bars and we were dancing and they played that song. I'm like, oh my God, that's us going into the real world. Yeah, but did you really like the real world?
SPEAKER_03Sorry, I had to throw that in there.
SPEAKER_05Yes, and I did.
SPEAKER_03See, folks, that's what we're trying to do. Set it up.
SPEAKER_05Set it up. There we go. Okay, so we are talking about how to create an environment that is more inclusive of all the voices. So it's it's managing those more dominant voices and allowing space for the more quiet voices. So in the beginning, we were talking more about how to manage the more dominant ones. And and and to where we left off was also really thinking about sometimes some of those more dominant ones are the yeah butters. Yeah, but yeah, but yeah, but. And what tends to happen then, they keep slamming other people's ideas that then the other people will tend to just close down. So we did a little exercise of trying to, you know, help raise your awareness of how can you make everybody on your team more conscientious of when they're using yeah but. And maybe they sh, you know, that's not appropriate. Maybe a yes and could be more inclusive. And using yes and, and the yes and doesn't mean we have to agree. We could say y yes, and I am worried that we may not have the budget for that. So I don't know if that would work. I think the idea has some merit, though. Maybe we can take it another direction. So with yes and you can always build with it. Yeah, but it just closes it down. So with that then, let's think about how to hold the space then for those more quiet people. And when we think about that, research has actually shown that those personality types, um, usually, and I like to call them like the operator or the relators. The operators are more task-oriented, they like to analyze things a little bit more. Um, the relators are also a little slower, they like to take things in, what's going on. Those personality types tend to like to take their time in responding. Um so, and research has found that that person those types of personalities, they usually feel comfortable having at least seven seconds before responding. Now, for those of you who are like me that are fast and that are constantly like, go, go, go, seven seconds is a long time to wait. And so now let's think about it. Let's say if you're in if you're trying to hold a meeting and you're creating this space that, you know, that is gonna need to hold seven seconds at least of silence, how do you keep those more dominant people from you know just jumping in? Because it's very uncomfortable for most people. More than three seconds of space, they're uncomfortable, they're jumping in. But it can be done. It really can be done. And so a lot of times it's just raising the awareness, just letting the team know, hey, this is what I heard, this is what research says, and uh, you know, I want to make sure that we are giving other people the time and and for them to feel comfortable to think about and to be able to respond. Um, in fact, uh just a couple weeks ago, I was um in front of a big client of mine and and going through this, and we were going through this training, and uh one particular person in the training was saying, you know, I have because I had taught this to them actually the time before, and he came back and said, We have created that in our teams now. We have this one particular individual who he tends to take more time, he likes to have more space to respond. And we just called it out in the beginning to said, Hey, you know, John likes to take a little more time. Um we're we want to hear what John has to say. And whenever we say that, then now in our meetings, we basically all know we're fine, we're happy, we'll just all hang out and be quiet and you know, do and wait for John, and usually it takes in about seven, ten seconds or so, and then he'll engage. Um but he says, yeah, everybody totally has created that space for that. Okay, so that's one thing to be thinking about is maybe you can just call it out. You don't you have to necessarily call out an individual. You can how you can maybe pull call pull out those individuals' ideas and thoughts is by saying something like, um, you know, um let's say John or let's I've used another word, um, we'll have Jane. Jane is the one that keeps jumping in and keeps jumping in, and and so you're trying to carve out space. And you can even say, Jane, you know, I really appreciate and I think I underst we understand your perspective. And we're running out of time, and I really want to make sure that we have enough time for, you know, and you can even name, you know, the three others who haven't had time to talk yet. And so sometimes it's very you do have to call it out, and sometimes you do have to call out the individual and say, you know, I basically need you to be quiet. And so that's a nice way of saying it. You know, Jane, uh I I think we understand what you have to say, and we I want to make sure that we I hear what some of the others who haven't had a chance to talk yet have to say. And so for any of you who have talked so far, if if we could, you know, hold back your thoughts for a moment and let's hear from the others who haven't had time to speak. Okay, so when you are facilitating, your role really is to help carve out that space for those others and to give them time to speak. Um sometimes if they're newer and out of respect, they will not other people, you know, the more quiet ones will not speak out unless they are asked to speak out. I mean, I know for a lot of meetings that I'm sitting in that I'm not the facilitator, I will stay quiet unless my opinion is asked for, basically just because there's so many other dominant players in there that they don't need another dominant player. Um so in that case. You know, some of the really more savvy facilitators will stop the action and say, Misha, what are you thinking? I always have something to share, trust me, as you can imagine. Um, but I have even learned over time that I will I will stay quiet unless I am asked. So keep that in mind. It's not just the younger ones, the less mature and such. It can be your more senior folks that they, you know, they're like, no, I'm fine, I don't need to say anything. And they won't interject themselves, especially if there's a lot of uh more dominant people, unless they are asked to. Okay, so that's another thing to just keep in mind. All right, another aspect about this too is that then sometimes those more dominant people are just adamant and they keep, they just hijack your conversation or your team meeting. Um that is probably one of the most irritating things I know that people s complain about. It's like, how do you control those people who just hijack your meeting? So a couple things to be thinking about there. It's usually if they've hijacked the meeting, um, it is because they are not feeling heard. There is something about what's going on and what's being discussed. They are not willing to move forward because they are not feeling heard. Now, this can be a little frustrating. Um, there's a couple different ways that you can deal with this, and I think I've talked about this before in one of my other podcasts, but again, this is a really important one that I reiterate over and over. One of the things you could be doing is maybe they are more of a visual person. And so everybody's talking, talking, talking, talking, and it just feels like all this stuff is out in the air and it's not grounded for them. If you can visualize, you can put it up on a board, create a mind map, if you can draw out or or spell out this is what we're talking about, is this what you mean? Is this what you're concerned with? Putting it someplace tangible so they can see it a lot of times, that will help them feel hurt. And like, yes, that is exactly what I was worried about. And then you can say, okay, everybody else, do you understand where he's coming from? Yep, I got it. Now they are feeling hurt. Sometimes, even if you've done that, I ran into a situation once where I tried that, I was trying all these other techniques, and he, this this one individual just kept totally hijacking the conversation. I'm like, and I couldn't figure out, I'm like, okay, you are missing something. We have already covered all of those things. We've thought about all of those contingencies. I don't understand what your concern is. And we were buttonheads in the meantime, everybody else is losing interest. And I finally stopped the action and I had to take ownership and I said, okay, I'm obviously not understanding what his concern is. And um I'm gonna call him Joe, what Joe's concern is. Does anybody else understand and can help me understand what his concern is? So notice I took the blame, I didn't, wasn't pointing out, Joe, I just don't understand what you're saying. Can't you explain it better? Blah, blah, blah. It's me. I'm the one that's not understanding this. And when I put that out there, another guy in the meeting just said, Joe, this is da-da-da-da-da. This is what we're doing, this is what we thought about, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Joe just looks at him and says, Oh, okay. In the meantime, I'm looking like, isn't that what I've already been saying? I like why did he say it that much? I don't know what he said or how he said it differently or what. But all of a sudden, Joe got it and we were able to move forward. I was like, okay, whatever, get it. So sometimes, too, when they're not feeling heard, you know, stopping the action, even helping the group, you know, helping the group to say, okay, help me understand what I'm missing. Okay, so those are some of the things to be thinking about. Um, the last one I want to leave you with is just thinking about also watch your own behavior. You could be encouraging this behavior. You could be, you know, like maybe playing favorites a little bit. You could be the one, if you have an attitude coming in, um, thinking, oh, Joe is gonna take over my meeting again. Joe's gonna pick up on that. And guess what? You just created that. So really also think about your involvement and what you're creating and how you're getting, how you might be adding to this as well. Okay, so I hope all of this was helpful. Again, you are have been listening to the Misha Rouser Show. We're live every Tuesday morning on KKW 1150 here in Seattle. I am Misha, coaching you to success, and thank you so much for listening.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for listening to the Misha Rouser Show on Alternative Talk 1150. Join Misha every week, Tuesdays 9 30 to 10 a.m., as she takes you down a path toward achieving professional success while still having fun. Tell your friends, tell your family, tell your colleagues. Misha helps people and organizations be successful, all while staying on a positive path. Tune in next week for the Misha Rouser Show.