Jasmine Star (00:00:01) - It's a. Welcome to the Jasmine Star Show. Today. We are talking about a lot of layers of leadership, but perhaps from a different angle. I am very excited because Adam and Hallie are like the ultimate duo. I have been stalking them. It's kind of like Batman and Robin, so let's just hit the ground running. Adam is the founder and Hayley serves as a chief of staff and they help leaders today to become leaders of tomorrow. Now, if you're anything like me and you're wondering chief of staff, is that not a term that we hear on West Wing? I didn't even know what a chief of staff was honest God had to happen to like two years ago. I was like, they exist in the business world. So we're going to start right there. Adam and Hallie, whoever wants to hit the ground running before we actually get into the frameworks and talking about developing leaders and becoming another dynamic duo, can you describe Chief of Staff and what their role is in an organization?

Hallie Warner (00:01:05) - I'm actually curious to see who is actually Batman and who's Robin.

Hallie Warner (00:01:09) - I was like, Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Jasmine Star (00:01:11) - So, so Adam, your CEO. So you're clearly Robin, you know, like clearly.

Hallie Warner (00:01:16) - Yeah, exactly. I'm like me, right? Identify more as a bat. But I.

Jasmine Star (00:01:20) - Love it. I love it as most of chiefs of staff do, from what I have learned. So that's probably a great place to start because people are hearing this and like, wait a minute, a CEO can be Robin. And I'm like, That is my ambition, baby. That is my ambition. So let's start crafting this terminology of chief of staff.

Hallie Warner (00:01:35) - Sure, sure. So I started my career as an executive assistant, and that's kind of how my journey went from an executive assistant to a chief of staff. We talk about it in terms of the force multiplier very often because sometimes titles get a little tricky, like my version of a chief of staff may actually operate as an executive assistant in another company, and someone's executive assistant may actually operate, as, you know, a deputy chief of staff at another organization.

Hallie Warner (00:02:01) - So for us, we usually use the term force multiplier to encompass this the right hand business partner to a CEO or a founder. The main difference between an and a chief of staff is that the chief of staff is somebody who's going to be running alongside the leader and working on a future growth and strategy in special projects and usually helping lead and communicate across multiple divisions or organizations. Whereas an executive assistant is going to be handling more of the day to day immediate needs in support of that executive or that founder.

Jasmine Star (00:02:32) - Okay. So if I were to understand it correctly, it would be like the CEO and then just off to his or her kind of like sub left or right, it would be a chief of staff and then below those two would be an either serving the chief of staff and or the CEO.

Hallie Warner (00:02:47) - Yeah, it can be. Sometimes the E serves the founder directly alongside the chief of staff. In our case, our does report to me, the chief of staff and then supports both of us.

Jasmine Star (00:02:58) - Okay.

Jasmine Star (00:02:58) - So let's break this down by an example, because your girl, your girl is special. And I'm very slow sometimes and I am not looking for a chief of staff. I'm looking for a force multiplier. We're going to get to all of that in a second. So I've done a lot of due diligence and homework because I'm like, Oh, you too have casted a vision for a future I didn't know existed. And so I definitely want to like tap more into there. But can you give us like a very granular example? Like, sure. So we get this idea. Chief of staff helps the CEO or the founder bring it to life, but what does it actually mean? Like, give us a real example here.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:03:27) - I'll give you a quick example from a perspective. A couple, about a month or so ago, we were having a morale issues in our organization. And so I went to Halley and I just said, Hey, look, here are the seven bullet points that I want to make sure that we're reiterating to all of our leaders to make sure they're distributing that throughout the rest of the organization.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:03:44) - And so Halley basically took the thoughts that I had and then also went back and triangulated with other leaders to make sure that we weren't missing any other points that needed to be included. She was also doing Is this best delivered in terms of an email or is Adam best serve to do this in a video or live in front of as many people as we can get into a zoom? And so how I put together basically all of that information, triangulating all behind the scenes to come back and give me and saying, hey, I think we need to do it basically both ways. In fact, I want you to actually do one in a video and we're going to follow it up by an email. Here's some talking points. Here's a draft of what the email looks like. Let me know what tweaks you want to make. And then so from there, then I was able to make some tweaks. We kind of agreed on what we wanted to agree on because Halley will fight back with me, which is awesome on points that I want to make.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:04:26) - And then I went out there, then delivered it right and delivered the video, deliver the email, and then did some follow up as well too. So the chief of staff really is an extension of who you are in terms of being able to magnify what a leader does, which I think there's some really three really important things a leader can do. We can get to that later. And I think the chief of staff really is just an extension or a byproduct of what you're working on, just different components of that project.

Jasmine Star (00:04:51) - Instead of waiting to talk about those three components of leadership, I think it would tie in dovetail really nice right now to start off there.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:04:58) - Yeah, I think the three most important things a leader must do is number one is cast a vision and we hear that often. But the reason I think a lot of people put that they say it's number one, but it's really not. It's like they say it to say it, to say it so that it feels good to them in that the rest of.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:05:12) - They should know as they cast a vision. But the reality is that, look, if you're running east looking for a sunset, I don't care how many wonderful people you hire, how hard you're working, how fast you're swimming, you're just not going to accomplish the goal. So everyone needs to understand where they're going. And I think this day and age two, everyone wants to know that they're working for a purpose, they're working towards contribution. And I think having a very strong vision that you can carry out and that the rest of the people can fall. I don't say fall in line with, but you can get behind to support. It allows everyone to understand the impact that they're making in the organization. So that's what a vision does. And that's got to be number one, is people have to know where the organization is going at all times. I think over the last couple of years, a lot of leaders in industries didn't need to be as strong in their vision. I will tell you, for instance, in our world, I got lackadaisical on it because, I mean, we were printing cash left and right.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:06:00) - It was everything was there. It was easy to kind of go through there. And so I kind of allowed it to be like, Well, I guess I don't really need to do this. And then all of a sudden when things start to slip or shift a different ways, all of a sudden you realize how lackadaisical you have been as a leader and need to re combat that and really reinstall the vision, particularly during tough economic times. Whether that's, you know, that could be some organizations or industries or going through it at different times. But when it gets more challenging, understanding almost on a day to day basis where you're going needs to be iterated to the organization. So that's number one. Number two is that you have to be able to provide clarity and direction. So if you were to fly into Austin and you were trying to get to a hotel and imagine your Google Maps didn't work, right, I'll send you in there and you're trying to take out a paper map, right, and try to figure out how to get to the hotel.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:06:46) - I mean, think about how much energy and time usage in existence or nervousness would occur. Trying to figure out how to get to a hotel. By the way, side note, we used to do that like 15 years ago actually. But anyway, so like there's not any Ubers around whatever it is. And so, I mean, I live in Vermont. There is no Uber, especially in Stowe. And so you would try to figure out where you're going. That's why that direction and clarity, people want to know the steps of how to get to the mountain. A leader's job. If you were to summit a mountain, right? They want to know that you're going to the top, but they also want to know, hey, when you get to this 2000 foot elevation, you're gonna have to turn left. And by the way, it's going to get really foggy up there. And you should probably be prepared to put this jacket on. We get there, you're going to need this tent when you get above this because it's going to be there.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:07:25) - You're also should be prepared for additional water once you get past that, because it's going to take you an extra two days to get up there. And by the way, you should be prepared to go right when you get to that particular forest. I mean, that's they want to know the general idea of how to get to a place to where they're going, an organization. In fact, I think the difference and we'll get to number three is, is in wildly successful organizations versus organizations that are just marginally successful is is how strong the vision is, how clear the direction is. The clarity is that everybody, especially when you have thousands of people, right? Like how do you make sure everyone is feeling that? And then the third most important thing a leader must do is make quality decisions every single day. I think, hands down, the most important thing a leader can do is make 1 or 2 top high level quality decisions every single day. And I believe that is if you just make a 10% better decision every single day, Think about the geometric difference between where your organization is now and where it is in five years.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:08:19) - And that's the difference. When somebody starts off and you're the same page and you're building and scaling, building and scaling and building, and then all of a sudden you just go straight up in the next 2 to 3 years and you hit this geometric growth. It's accumulation of these wonderful decisions that leadership and leaders are making. Member A leaderships work product is decisions. I mean, I don't actually really do anything except for make decisions. Right. Which is like the triangulation information, but that becomes a leader's work product. So when you wake up every day as a leader, whether you own a company or leading a division, it's do I know the vision of the company or am I setting the vision of the company? Does my company or does my vision know the direction and clarity of it? And am I making quality decisions every single day? And that should be your goal before 10:00 every single morning?

Jasmine Star (00:09:02) - Hell, yes. Okay. So somebody is listening and they ask, Wait, but how do I know it's a quality decision? Like, what are your qualifications for what is quantified as a quality decision?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:09:14) - Have you heard of the Pareto principle before?

Jasmine Star (00:09:16) - Yeah, 8020, baby.

Jasmine Star (00:09:17) - Exactly.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:09:18) - Yeah. So I think majority.

Jasmine Star (00:09:19) - Of people hold on. But time out for anybody who's listening. Pareto's law states that 80% of X is caused by 20% of Y. So, for example, 80% of accidents are caused by 20% of drivers. 80% of the content you see on Instagram is produced by 20% of the creators. That's Pareto's Law. So Adam, sorry.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:09:40) - Wonderful example there. So in principle, I think the majority of leaders are actually making majority of the decisions of the 80% instead of the 20%. And so I think more so first, people need to understand what level of decision is this. And again, most people get caught up in trying to make and put energy because there's only a certain amount of cognitive ability that you have as a leader every single day. And so most people are making decisions around the 80% that really doesn't matter. Equally, everything matters, just not equally, Right. Like I'm sure you're kidding. I don't know if you have do you have kids, by the way? I do have a daughter.

Jasmine Star (00:10:11) - She's three.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:10:12) - So your daughter matters. And I'm sure you would say that my daughter matters. But the reality is, is your kids probably matter more to you. And my kids probably matter a little bit more to me in that way. So everything matters, just not equally in the same thing holds true in business. And what I see so many individuals or owners leaders doing is making so many decisions around the 80% doesn't matter. So number one, if you know where you're going, vision, if you know the clarity and direction it is, Number three, the decision that you're making should actually come easier. And understanding leadership. I think that most people are not that are unwilling to make the decision. They don't know what decision to make because they're not clear on number one. And number two.

Jasmine Star (00:10:46) - Ooh, ooh, ooh dang. Yeah, we could say that it's harder to make decisions without having a vision. And without a vision. We don't have directions. So if you're struggling and knowing what the decisions are, if you go back to step number one, create a vision, it becomes a lot easier.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:11:06) - Yes, Well.

Jasmine Star (00:11:07) - Said. Thanks. Okay, so let's drill this down a little bit. First, we clarified the force multiplier and even beyond that, the role between chief of staff and and a founder CEO. So now that we've been going along these things and we've talked about the three principles of leadership and we then we talked about making quality decisions, there could be a small subset of people, and this is where I want to start at the base level and then build up for people who are like, I want to work towards that, but I'm not there yet. So. Adam and I'm not necessarily talking about one, 2 or 3. They're actually talking about when would I introduce a chief of staff? At what point did you realize in your business that you wanted to bring Heli in? How many years would did it look like? What were your pressure points?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:11:47) - I started what's that was like?

Hallie Warner (00:11:49) - Can I just jump in and add one thing before you tell the story?

Jasmine Star (00:11:51) - Please? Oh, please.

Hallie Warner (00:11:52) - Yes. The one thing I wanted to mention is that not because I do think we should make some clarity around this, that not all founders and entrepreneurs need a chief of staff. Do I believe that most founders need a force multiplier? Yes. But that can come in several different forms. Very often it will come as an executive assistant first, and then maybe they will eventually grow into needing the chief of staff. But I would not necessarily recommend that that first hire is indeed a chief of staff.

Jasmine Star (00:12:19) - Oh, I love this. This is getting crunchy. Okay. Now, Adam, did you say I know that Haley came in as an executive assistant? Were you looking specifically for an executive assistant? Yeah.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:12:29) - So when I when I first started my first business in 2006, I. I'm inherently lazy for anything else that anybody else can do. Like if it comes to exercise or meditation or journaling or inner work, like I am the most laser focused person because nobody else can do it. I don't know.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:12:45) - I have this problem that the minute somebody else can do something, it's like I have paralysis around it. Like I'll come up with the idea and then like, I just can't do it. It's like I won't. It'll sit there until unless I'm the only one that can do it. So when I first got in the into business, I literally went out there. I had no idea what I was doing and no idea how to hire. I was like 22 years old and I just started hiring people to start doing things that I didn't really do that I just wouldn't do and I was creating. I was that that traditional, like creating sales. And I was really good at sales and just creating all this kind of chaos, if you will. And so I, I literally went through like probably 6 or 7 different I just call them general administrative assistants at the time. And then a couple of years into it, I started getting some relative training in it and I made an executive assistant to hire. And it's actually a funny story.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:13:29) - I think it's worth sharing. I ended up hiring Halley from a Craigslist ad back when Craigslist was actually producing really quality candidates, and this was in 2009. I think we started interviewing 2010 when she came in, and I had actually hired her for, I think a marketing assistant is what it was. And I was going to move my current assistant that I had up to an executive assistant, and Holly was going to be a marketing assistant, okay? And I ended up hiring Holly and I went in the interview. I could clearly tell that she was her response time back to me, you know, the energy she brought into the interview. So I end up hiring her. She came in.

Jasmine Star (00:14:03) - Okay, wait. Pause, pause, pause. I am a natural born storyteller, and I can't get past this point of Holly's perspective of going on Craigslist and seeing a job listing as a marketing assistant. Kelly, can you fill in the gaps for us? You see this job listing, you apply for it.

Jasmine Star (00:14:18) - And one of the things that Adam had said was he really liked your timeliness and your response is, can you put us in the shoes? So I am literally a founder who is on the hunt for a good executive assistant. What are some of the things that you are doing that's really like lighting up Adam's brain?

Hallie Warner (00:14:34) - Oh, good question. Well, because he was in real estate, I mean, we've since branched out into other industries and I was very, very interested in real estate. And so he of course, that attracted me initially to the job opportunity. Okay? Then once I was there, I he was already successful, so he already had a very successful real estate business. Again, since then we've done many, many more things, but I was attracted to the success. I knew that I wanted to align myself with somebody who had some sort of proven success. Mean again, you were very big fish in a small ish pond. Yes, very small pond.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:15:12) - Be real?

Hallie Warner (00:15:12) - Yeah, in a very, very small pond.

Hallie Warner (00:15:14) - But I was living in a small pond, so I was like, okay, if he's the best and I want to go work with the best. And so in just the way he was also dressed, I mean, these things do do, which is really funny because that was working. But at the time he was in, I think, a three piece suit with the pockets there. And I was like, You can't find this anywhere in this, you know, in Vermont. And I wanted to be working with somebody who was highly successful, was going places, spoke the language of leadership and was demonstrating success. So I'm a very career oriented, career driven person, so that immediately attracted me to the opportunity.

Jasmine Star (00:15:49) - Got it. Okay. So it's the whole package. It's a success. It's the leadership. It's even like the visual representation of what the business and brand can become. And then, Adam, on your end, you're getting responses from Heli. And when you say they're responsive and when you say they're thoughtful, like what are two characteristics that I could start looking for when I see like a qualified candidate come in? So wonderful.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:16:10) - Question. A way to fill in the gap here. Thank you for doing that. Number one is just the response time on email. That's something that I mean, I'm incredibly impatient when I'm slow enough to slow down. But then once we decide to go, I'm incredibly impatient. So for Howie, for Ali, it was it was her response time back to me matched mine, which at that time was hi. I couldn't really find anybody that matched that level of intensity that I brought to the business world, specifically as an employee. And so that got my attention right there. And she showed up 15 minutes early. Again, I was at that time I was in the three piece suit. I wore a suit for probably ten, 12, 13 years of my life. And that I mean, that literally was she was dressed up like that, too. And so, again, that was all part of the culture that we had. So we were mirroring and matching there, you know. And then she spoke the language of leadership as well.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:16:58) - She actually also had growth. So you can see that she really asked about growth and she was very organized. Her responses were very well back to me. She had done her homework, by the way, which this is just fundamental things like if somebody is coming in for an executive assistant position or chief of staff or force multiplier and they haven't done any homework on you, given this day and age that we live in, of at least something. To me, it's just kind of like then, you know, maybe you get lucky and hire somebody that's not there. But I mean, it takes 15 minutes to go pull up a particular founder that you're about to go work for and just get an understanding. I was interviewing a high level C-suite executive today and not for an executive assistant, but this individual had listened to our podcast. He had already got our book. He had highlighted section of the book and showing it to me, just not because anybody asked him, because he's just spoke the language of leadership.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:17:46) - Right. So those are the things that you want to be looking for If you want to attract yourself to a high level leader like that, that makes sense.

Jasmine Star (00:17:53) - It makes it makes a ton of sense. So doing research beforehand, timely responses, matching the culture, even the visual branding of the organization and the level of intensity is mirroring the founder that you will be working for. Yes. Oh, okay. Now I'm assuming I don't know. We kind of left on a cliffhanger. The marketing assistant was moved to the position and Haley came in as the marketing assistant. So then what happened?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:18:20) - Yeah, So about two weeks into this, I hadn't spoken to them at all about this or individually, and I called them both into my office and I'm like, you know, I'm not really sure what's going to happen here, but I'm pretty sure these people are in the wrong seats. So I had them both come in and they were sitting I remember sitting, they were sitting in my corner office and I'm sitting there and I look at them.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:18:40) - I'm like, Hey, look, I'm prepared to whatever's going to happen here, it's going to happen. But I think you're both in the wrong position. And I just stopped. And then I let the awkwardness for a second go. They both looked at each other and they go, Yeah, we agree. And then it was done. Like, it was literally like they hadn't talked about it either. So it's another good leadership lesson when you're when you're as a leader, right? You just kind of seeing things. And look, I think every leader has the ability to do that. They're just sometimes not confident to act on it. And if you're willing to let go of the outcome, even though you're willing to approach the conversation but not personally trying to get anything from it, but trying to be the best for the organization, then I think you can't go wrong. And so that's literally what we just did.

Jasmine Star (00:19:18) - This is so good because in my mind I have like Hunger Games music playing in the background.

Jasmine Star (00:19:22) - And you think it's going to be like, may the odds be ever in your favor. And like, no, they're both are like, cool. Yeah. You know, like, great. But I do have a question, though. My spidey sense is, is that marketing assistant still with the organization?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:19:36) - What do you think? No, no. Sally cheated and she shook her head so you could see that she couldn't say like, no.

Jasmine Star (00:19:44) - Well, here's the thing. I prefaced it by my spidey senses. Because what happens is when you from an outsider's perspective, when there is a leader on an upward path of mobility, the team that got you to that point most likely won't be the team to get you to the next point. And so that assistant immediately realized that he or she was outmatched. And once you go back, you realize this is it. It's either I stay a marketing assistant here or even work down because organization's moving up, or I find my own path with a different organization where I might be a.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:20:12) - I actually took her and got her to another team that was starting to build their business. And I said, Look, she's going to take you to about this level in production, this level and sales this level and leadership capacity. And he's like, I don't care. He was brand new. So like, it was perfect for him because it was she had a lot of runway. She could work a year and a half, two years, maybe three years into it. He literally he's like, We've hit that ceiling. You are perfectly dead on. And he transitioned her much slower than I did, but he eventually moved on from her.

Jasmine Star (00:20:39) - But there is something really brilliant and beautiful about that person knowing like then the more that that pattern exist, the better off here she is to find an organization, give themselves 2 or 3 years of runway. Say that this is what the thing that I'm really good at and instead of looking at it as like a chink in their armor, now it's a power play.

Jasmine Star (00:20:56) - You come in, you give guarantees, you have results. Like to me, I'm like, you can make everything to your favor. And I think you just saw that early for this person.

Hallie Warner (00:21:03) - So I was going to say she was way happier in that position.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:21:06) - She absolutely.

Hallie Warner (00:21:07) - Much happier in that role than she would ever have been in the other.

Jasmine Star (00:21:10) - One. Heck, yes. Heck, yes. Okay. Adam, what were you going to say?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:21:13) - I forget, but it was really good.

Jasmine Star (00:21:15) - Way to go, Hallie. Way to go.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:21:17) - That's the. Exactly. You see this? This happens all the time.

Jasmine Star (00:21:21) - Well, listen, listen, listen. Batman's got to speak every so often. Batman's got to utter words out into Gotham. Okay? So if. If this is where we're at, and then you start seeing these makings of her really stepping up and becoming your idea. There are people who are listening and they're kind of like saying, yes, kind of sort of. What are markers from your both of your perspectives? I would love to know is when somebody needs a force multiplier, what are some of the key flags or indicators?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:21:48) - Well, I think anybody that doesn't want to be a sole proprietor needs their next hire, should be a force multiplier.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:21:53) - And again, then you however you qualify that that could be in terms of a personal assistant as a force multiplier. That could be somebody as an executive assistant force multiplier or that could be somebody that serves more of that chief of staff role as a force multiplier. So one of those three roles I think is absolutely critical in my opinion, for anybody that runs even as a sole proprietor, should have that person in their life. And I think you're seeing the business world really support that. To see that. See, Ali is not a chief of staff. She's a business partner to me. Right. So and even when she was an AEA, she was a business partner. It's the same level as a C-suite executive that would be in there. Again, just a C-suite executive. But chief operating officer is doing an executing on what they do in the operations role, how he's doing, what she does in operations as a link, as a interconnected part of the CEO's office to make sure that we're maximizing what we need to do.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:22:44) - And that's the role of that team in that corner.

Jasmine Star (00:22:46) - So, Kelly, I'd love your perspective. Like what are key indicators.

Hallie Warner (00:22:50) - Right, that somebody needs to make that that initial hire? Yeah. So it's actually interesting that you were talking about the 8020 rule because that usually is my first indicator. If the executive is spending way too much time in their 80%. So obviously an executive or an entrepreneur should be spending their time on their 20%. That's going to make the largest impact. If they're creeping way into that 80%, it's very much time for them to think about making that that initial hire because that 80% is going to become the job description for that executive assistant. So they're going to take on that 80%. I think other indicators are if you're working longer hours than you have before, but the results aren't increasing at all, you've kind of hit your natural ceiling of ability. You may need to hire that force multiplier if your personal time I would say personal time per se, But like your personal responsibilities or personal life or suffering in any way, your relationships are suffering, it might be time to hire a force multiplier.

Hallie Warner (00:23:47) - And if you want somebody to go on the journey with you and if there's just there's just stuff that you don't want it like doing, there's nothing wrong with just saying, like Adam said, I do not like doing these things. You don't need to prove yourself as a founder. You don't need to necessarily have do all the things to say, I'm a successful entrepreneur, I'm a successful founder. If you truly just don't like doing something, hire someone to do it because your time is much better spent on higher dollar producing activities on that 20% that is going to produce more revenue for the business.

Jasmine Star (00:24:17) - So two things. Number one, shots fired. I felt like I mean, here's the thing. I've always known part of the reason why I wanted this conversation on the podcast was I started off by saying this conversation was entirely selfish, and I know that I need this conversation first and foremost before anybody else who's listening. So if somebody else is listening, this is great that you're getting from it, but this is a particular episode that it is something that I have known.

Jasmine Star (00:24:40) - And for every indicator that you have both listed, I know that to be true. And so I think that there is a story which gets to the second point. The story is, Oh, I hate even saying it. It's like I just don't know how I don't want to make the wrong mistake. You know? It's like, I know that I need an air. I totally know I need this. So like, there's other people maybe nodding and they're listening, like, Yeah, I need a force multiplier. Everything that Halie just listed, everything Adam just listened to is me. But I don't have the funds to pay or I don't know how. Like, No, let's break this apart. I don't want to talk about. I don't have the funds to pay because I feel like that's a limiting mindset. And we've talked a lot about this on this podcast. What about right now? Like first steps? Like what am I looking for? How do I craft the best job description to attract the very thing I need.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:25:23) - All of me to start even before that? I think if you know that you want to go hire a force multiplier, if you go out there and you start the interview process and you find a hire that is the right fit for you and they're the right fit for the organization, have them draft their own job description and you approve it. I mean, it's as simple as that. Like literally that could be the first thing that you do if you could always draft your own job description. But if you're stuck and you're like, I don't want to spend the time to even draft my own job description, if you find the right candidate, have them present you a job description with a couple of bullet points of what you want them to take away, and then you just approve the job description and you can start there and you go, Hey man, if you could do all of that, that would be amazing. And then, you know, all those things that are going on in your head, Jasmin, that like, just like you're like, I should be doing that.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:26:05) - I should could do that. And you kind of just don't really find yourself doing those things. That becomes the job description as well too. So you can also keep like a little notepad or Evernote open and all those little tasks that come up that you don't really get to and they kind of weigh on you a little bit over time. Just write down what those items are and you start to create a job description that way as well too.

Jasmine Star (00:26:25) - Okay, that's so simple. I'm like, okay, I can sink my teeth into that. I can keep a list of the things that I'm doing that I know I don't need to do. That is I wouldn't even say it's Pareto's law. I can't wait to get to the 8020. I think I'm just doing like 95 five. I am so in the weeds with stuff and I hate even admitting it, but I'm admitting it so that we have like a normal conversation and we have like a come to Jesus moment. Okay. So, Ali, when you started working with Adam, what were some of the first things that you did to, like, alleviate? How did you first start flexing that force multiplier muscle? Like, I want to go back to the origin.

Hallie Warner (00:26:55) - Yeah. So immediately I really think the foundational skills for any great where they can immediately make an impact, a valuable impact on a founder is calendar and communication. Those are two things that take up an exorbitant amount of time for an individual, a creator, for an entrepreneur that are easily leveraged, able to a force multiplier, it is very difficult for a founder to want to give up those two things, their calendar and their schedule and usually their inbox or any other communication in flow, whether it's like social or slack or something like that. But that mean that can save hours and hours of time per week for an entrepreneur was actually just on a podcast earlier today and he said immediately within that first week she already had eliminated about 15 hours of work off of his job just from making sure his calendar and his email were handled and all of the back and forth in the meeting prep and the email inquiries. And so I would always start that's like foundational. If you hire a great they should know how to do that with their eyes closed and then the value just continues to increase from there.

Jasmine Star (00:27:58) - I love this so, so, so much. In fact, just today I was like in Slack with a team and I'm like, All I need today is tell me what I'm supposed to do, because I had like, this person is coming over. You have this podcast, we're going to do this, you have this. And I'm like, Just give me a rundown, please. Anybody. Like, I just feel like I'm managing this and I'm so in the weeds when I should be fully present to the things that I'm doing. So it's like I know it is absolutely divine and kismet that we're having this conversation now. So let's, let's flip this Now. There's somebody who's listening and they're like, Wow, I have all the makings of being a force multiplier. So question number one is to Heli. How did you know? Like what was your inner knowing that you knew you had the capacity to be a force multiplier? And then, Adam, how might somebody market those things in such a way.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:28:45) - Right?

Hallie Warner (00:28:45) - Hallie Yeah, it's it's funny because all this is going to sound so feel like, so egotistical, but all that don't.

Jasmine Star (00:28:52) - No, no, no. This is where we be real. This is where we be real.

Hallie Warner (00:28:54) - All that comes to mind is like, I kind of always I'm a very quiet about it. And Adam, you could correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty quiet about it. But I always know that. I'm always know that I'm like a badass. And so but it's and I've I've been that way my whole to a certain degree, my whole life. So I just would apply it to whatever it was that I was doing. I have I'm very entrepreneurial, which is why I am attracted to working with a founder versus working for a C-suite and a executive in a large corporation. That wouldn't necessarily work for me. The roles are a little bit different. I would be doing different things. I wouldn't have been able to write a book with Adam. I wouldn't have been able to go create courses or create, you know, be on a podcast and do all of these other very entrepreneurial and exciting things.

Hallie Warner (00:29:36) - But I know that I'm a force multiplier because I love being the person behind the person, and I like to be the one who says, Here's all of the talking points that you should discuss and here's everything you need to do today, and here's how you should do it, and here's what you need to do. And then handing it off and saying, no, just go be your great self to the world because I don't want to necessarily be in the front. That's not really me. I'd rather be behind the scenes, but I can still not everything, but I can still do a lot of what Adam does. I just do it in a different way. And let him be the visionary and allow him to do what he's great at. And I get to do what I'm great at. And so that's kind of why we created the I mean, I created the force multiplier term for EA's and Chiefs of Staff. So I just kind of embodied what comes naturally to me and applied it to my career.

Hallie Warner (00:30:29) - And then now it's created this huge movement.

Jasmine Star (00:30:32) - So if you're listening and you you have a feeling, like a little inkling that you might be a force multiplier, now everybody's going to take on a different shape. But like three key things that I kind of pulled out from what Kelly had said was she had this inner confidence that she knew she was capable of high performance. And she always knew that there was this inner knowing that she can get it done. She is a woman or a person who can get it done. And then number two, was understanding that her power play, where she derived joy, wasn't being in front. It was preparing who was in front of her, that she took the deep pride in what that is. And then three, this longing or desire to be entrepreneurial and entrepreneurial without taking on the outward facing. I am the front facing founder of that. Did I hear those three things correctly? Spot on. Yes. Cool. And then, Adam, how does somebody market themselves as being this person? Because I want to hear from your perspective about how they're marketing, because let me tell you, I take pride in being a marketer.

Jasmine Star (00:31:31) - I do. But nothing makes me more lit up when I see another marketer doing a damn good job. I am like, I tip my hat like I know I'm being marketed to and I'm here for it because it's so good. I want to be wowed when I hire a force multiplier. So what are some things like how does somebody market themselves? What are you looking for?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:31:49) - So in terms of let me make sure I'm clear, like in terms of marketing, like if you want to be a force multiplier to be attracted to basically get a interview with a founder. Okay, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think number one is being prepared, right? I mean, that is like again, somebody that be listening to your podcast that would be commenting on that, maybe following you on social media because you know, you see it, you start to see people who are kind of paying attention to what you're doing and what it is again, speed at which they're doing it. And also continual follow up, even though that maybe the founder didn't reply to you because they've got too many things going on, they just didn't do it.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:32:21) - And you're persistent with what it is. You're also showing humility and confidence at the same time, which I think is one of the most powerful things that you can do because the biggest mistakes and we teach this a lot, that one of the mistakes that people can make in a strategic partnership like this, but one of the mistakes is having a force multiplier that really wants to also be in the front, meaning that they also want to be seen a lot more. And then that can be a very big conflict of like, well, hold on, Jasmine. I actually drafted this entire speech, so maybe I should just read it right now or whatever it is. And it's like, you know, the presidents, I mean, very few of them ever drafted their own speeches, right? Like, I mean, people just don't do that, right? They have speechwriters that do all this different stuff. You take your points and that's the whole point. And then there's somebody that delivers the whole thing. So I think you just got to make sure that you're confident.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:33:06) - Like Hallie said, she's an inner badass, which is true, right? But she didn't want to be a badass in terms of like, look at me, I'm a badass. It's more of like, look at the results. And those are badass. And I think that's the difference that you really want to drive towards.

Jasmine Star (00:33:19) - Yes. Okay. So again, this is not a podcast question. This is 100% real talk, selfish question. Can we go there? Yes. Okay. So we have a very small team at social curator and high performers. Olympic style were tiny, tiny, but dang, can these people produce? So what I've seen happen is that our SEO is my force multiplier, but she's so overextended and so I have these conversations with myself of being like, Well, if I hire a force multiplier, can this force multiplier be partly with me and partly with our SEO? Or is that stuff that you're like, No, no, no, we don't mix. What's your advice?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:34:00) - You go first.

Hallie Warner (00:34:00) - Sally Yeah, my advice would be it depends on how the role is structured. If you're looking for without knowing much about your business, if I'm looking at you, the founder, and then you have a COO and let's say you hired an executive assistant because it sounds like your CEO might be running in a million different directions too, and you both need support in terms of calendar, maybe email, communication, meeting prep, doing some research behind the scenes to make sure that you're fully prepared for whatever it is that you need to do. I think a highly skilled e could absolutely handle the two of you as long as there was a conversation at the end of the day whose work was a priority. Because there is let's be honest, it's going to be a case where the E is being asked to handle two things at once, and they have to make the choice between you and the COO. And that's much easier if that's established ahead of time rather than in the moment. They're like, I don't know who to support, but I think especially if you and your work very closely together and you already see that person as that kind of thought leader, thought partner, strategic partner, I think an E could absolutely support both of you.

Hallie Warner (00:35:03) - Let me ask you for expectations. Right. Right.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:35:06) - Match your question. What are some of the things that you think that your CEO would be giving up or that you'd be giving up?

Jasmine Star (00:35:12) - I can speak a lot more clearly for myself. It starts with the most basic things. I should not be booking my own flights, my hotel. I do so much traveling and we do it as a family. And it just it's exhausting to me. And arranging transportation as we travel with the toddler, like, Oh, is there going to be a car seat? We need to make sure it's like those details I know I shouldn't be doing as far as like my schedule for the week, much less the day. I just need somebody to say, Hey, this is where you need to be. This is what everything's prepared. Everything has been laid out for you. I'd be like, Oh my God, this would be life changing. I have zero problems giving somebody my calendar. I'm like, Please, my calendar is such a mess and I don't defend my calendar Like I was a guest on a podcast.

Jasmine Star (00:35:51) - And it was a really phenomenal podcast, but we had run out of time and so they wanted to get the part two in before a certain date. And I am not defending my calendar. And I agreed to the second part knowing that's another hour. Where am I going to get that hour? Like I didn't defend it. And I know that if I had somebody in there like protecting my inbox, protecting the calendar and then protecting ideation days, I told my husband, who's my business partner, I'm like, if I could just get a three hour time block, I could kick some ass. I just need to think and I'm not having the space to think and I'm not defending the time that's in there. In addition to communicating clearly with everybody on the team, Hey, Jasmine's doing this. Jasmine wants to set up a call here. How's it going? Like that alone would just radically shift the way that I'm showing up in the business and organization.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:36:35) - Yeah, Yeah. Two things to comment on.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:36:37) - I mean, that sounds to me like a high level executive assistant would just do wonders. Force multiplier would absolutely dominate your life. The other thing I think is something to think about is I, I was living that same life for a while and especially as we were growing. And then I got really about seven years now, I got really heavy into Iron Man. And this is actually an interesting story to help you with your calendar. And I started I ended up doing like 21 and like a four year period of time and I didn't want to I have three kids under 11 now. And so back then I had three kids and they were really small. I didn't want to lose my entire weekends training eight hours a day. So I actually started canceling my Fridays. And all of a sudden what happened was I thought I needed five days a week to be able to do everything. And so I started canceling Fridays, and then all of a sudden I was able to shift all of my appointments into a four day period of time, which squeezed out automatically the other 20%.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:37:26) - That didn't matter. And so all of a sudden I found myself in a much more condensed calendar, actually getting way more done. So I started kind of inherently started happening, and then I started keeping Fridays open. And so that becomes Friday to become like thought day or think day. And then all a sudden I shifted to ending at Thursday at 1:00, because now all of a sudden I've got Thursday afternoon to my own time. And then Friday can be even more writing content thinking. I read a book on Fridays, right? Whatever that is, to do it. And what it really started asking a different question, which was not How much can I get in five days? I started asking a different question, which was, How can I be more impactful for the time that I'm willing to work versus how much more hours can I add to my calendar? And so that to me, it actually forced the I think people are just spending honestly, 40 or 50% of their weeks doing things that just don't matter to the organization.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:38:15) - If you're never as driven as you are and as entrepreneurial as you are, if you don't get that under control, you're just going to fill your calendar up for the next five days, the next seven days, with just things that ultimately matter but don't matter. And so you have to block off your time and then whatever time you have available, you give it to the individual like your day to go and schedule those things within the time frame that you have that you're making decisions on everything else just as a no or starts to be able to just it just gets to the point where you give it to somebody else if they need it. But that's how you start to really unpack your calendar to really force it down to things that only actually matter in the organization for yourself.

Jasmine Star (00:38:55) - Oh, how can I be most impactful with the time I'm willing to work? Not how many things can I squeeze into a given time frame?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:39:05) - It's another way of asking the parietal principle on extreme like how do I get to 5% of my activities, produce 95% of my results? And that's really been my driving force my entire life, which is how do I essentially do nothing and accomplish everything?

Jasmine Star (00:39:19) - Oh so good.

Jasmine Star (00:39:21) - So there are people who are listening. And when you hired Heli, what did that look like then and what is your recommendation? So I hire a force multiplier. How much time should I plan to be training this person? Like, what is that onboarding look like? What is my expectations for this person?

Hallie Warner (00:39:37) - Ben Ali Yeah, um, I work with a lot of founders and E is doing this whole process and we actually have an executive assistant as well. So of course we've onboarded our two. So definitely there needs to be a 90 day plan. I like to write out a 90 day plan and make sure that I'm very clear about the expectations of what milestones they should be hitting within those 90 days. Like they should be owning the calendar by 90 days. They should be able to. Maybe they can start writing in my voice within 60 days, like getting really clear milestone set, however. You will know. And I all I always know within within about two weeks, whether sometimes two days, honestly, whether or not they're actually going to be the right fit.

Hallie Warner (00:40:22) - We go through an extensive hiring process, but sometimes you just can't replicate the day to day pace and intensity and expectations. And so while we do our best to get them through a very, very robust process and we'll do case studies with them and have them practice and sometimes even come in and shadow, um, if that is the case, it's not going to change. I mean, think about it. The people who you hire, they're putting their best foot forward in the first week. And if their best foot forward is not even close to what you're meeting or exceeding your expectations, then I would suggest moving on right away. But that being said, that they I would say within six months, if you've made a good hire within that first six months and Adam, you can correct me if I'm wrong, I felt like this in our first six months, like I was pretty solid on all of the basics of the job. And at that point I was trying to figure out what else I could do.

Hallie Warner (00:41:12) - And I was starting to take on my own projects and start learning and and moving, taking on as much as I could.

Jasmine Star (00:41:18) - Oh, this is amazing. And I know people right here are chomping at the bit to keep this conversation going on in. The good news is that the conversation can go on because you co-authored a book, The Founder and the Force Multiplier. We're going to link to it in the show notes. But what is the promise of the book? Somebody picks up this book and what's the transformation at the end? What do they get? What do they know? Who are they?

Hallie Warner (00:41:37) - Yeah. You want me to go?

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:41:38) - Yeah, go ahead.

Hallie Warner (00:41:39) - Yeah. Um.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:41:41) - Because if I go, she's going to stop me then correct the things that say so. I'm just going to let her do it first.

Jasmine Star (00:41:46) - Yes, exactly.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:41:48) - Yes. Yes.

Hallie Warner (00:41:49) - Um, so if you're a founder reading the book and we've had many founders give us this feedback. If you're a founder, you will know you will come out of reading the book and knowing whether or not you do in fact, need to force multiplier.

Hallie Warner (00:42:02) - Usually the answer is yes, but there's occasionally a no in there. And if the answer is yes, you will, you will know very clearly the who that you are looking for, the qualities, the characteristics that you should be identifying. And if you do have a force multiplier on staff and you're reading the book, you will know whether or not they are the right match for you. And if you should continue to invest in that partnership or if you should start looking to top grade that higher. And actually, many founders have been using the book as part of the interviewing process and requiring candidates to read the book before applying. Because if they don't like what it means to be a true force multiplier, like working crazy hours sometimes and, you know, going above and beyond constantly and not just doing the administrative tasks, but truly being a strategic thought partner, then they don't even want them to apply. So you can use the book in that regard. And if you're a force multiplier, reading the book, when you finish the book, you will know how to level up your skills, what it means to actually be a leader within an administrative partnership role.

Hallie Warner (00:43:02) - And you will also know that there is hope to find a really great founder match or a leader match, and that not all leaders are created equally and that it does take time and intention to find that right partnership so that you can really both grow together.

Jasmine Star (00:43:17) - So for people who want to go deeper beyond the book, where can people find you? When you have somebody who's like, These are my people, were this in the first, what do you want them to do outside of the book?

Hallie Warner (00:43:26) - Sure. The best place to go is founder and force multiplier slash welcome. We have a lot of free resources there. We host a weekly free power Hour. We have other free webinars and events. You have a link to the book there and then you can also join our weekly newsletter.

Jasmine Star (00:43:41) - I mean, Haley and Adam, you guys were a gift. You guys were wrapped in divine packaging today. You guys were so powerful. And I have no doubt that well over 90% of the people who were listening needed to hear this.

Jasmine Star (00:43:55) - And I'm happy that they found it on their journey in years. One, two, three, 1535 It's like we're finding them all at the right time. And I just want to say thank you so much for generously giving of your time and your knowledge. I look forward to going deeper with what it is you guys do. And when I hire my E, aka force multiplier, I will. I'll let you guys know. And just with like a great big bunch of gratitude, I thank you guys. Seriously, thank you so much. If you've enjoyed the conversation, please be sure to connect with the founder Force multiplier, the book, the Freebies, the webinars, all of it. There is a place of service again. Adam Kelly, thank you guys so much for being on the Jasmine Star Show.

*Adam Hergenrother * (00:44:32) - Thank you so much for having us.