Jasmine Star (00:00:01) - Welcome to the Jasmine Star Show, a place where we get to talk about life, business and today, a heavy emphasis on creativity. I am joined yet again by my guest co-host Marcus Murphy, who is feeling a little inferior at this moment because sitting next to his two people at the table today, it's Jasmine Starr and Johnny Chitwood. And with those names, Marcus Murphy just sounds like I got to make something Wonder Bread, you know, it's like this is market but some Yeah. Marcus Mayo Murphy Yeah so mayo great plane is all get out better it better be olive oil. Mayo is the best This guy's living in California two weeks and he's talking about olive oil. Mayo, let's go. Oh, my God. Are you. Are you speaking? I just started a little bit, like I said, two weeks in California and now he's a vegan. Oh, yeah, Yeah. Look at this. Marcus Vegan Murphy. Oh. You would know. You would know. You know, ladies and gentlemen, Johnny Chitwood is an artist.

Jasmine Star (00:01:05) - And I'm not going to say anything beyond more than that because we're going to get into the story. But the reason why I was very intrigued, like I had mentioned before, Marcus had a list of names and we were trying to curate the right people, the right mix and serve really well. And so when I saw like a thoroughbred of an artist, I was like, okay, let's talk here. Except for the fact that I'm not here to talk about what it is to be an artist. I really want to focus on the origin story, the monetization, having a career that is driven by art. So few people do that. It is intriguing to see and on such a scale. And so Johnny, welcome to the Jasmine Starr Show. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm very, very, very honored. Marcus I'm so happy. You have no idea. Here's the thing. Johnny and I are friends, which is nice. And I've had a front row seat to this entire journey before Johnny was Johnny Chitwood.

Jasmine Star (00:01:54) - But also at the same time, I'm a fan. Like I'm a massive fan and people will see you in the B-roll, your amazing work. But I'm a fan just of understanding how crazy the process is and being able to watch it from the beginning to the end and watching your art evolve over the years to what it is today. Yes, this conversation is going to be amazing and all those things, but also just huge fan. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. And I knew his I was going to say fandom, but it was more like fanboy. I knew of his fanboy tendencies because what he was posting on social, I feel like it's like, come here, come be a co-host because I'm going to kick you down the road. I'll kick you into success making fun of your name. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. I know. No, no, no. It's like. I know it's as distorted as it is. If I make fun of you, it means I really like you to jacked up.

Jasmine Star (00:02:42) - I'm already saving for my daughter's therapy. But. Johnny. Johnny. Hi. When Marcus started posting a lot of your work, I think you went to one of his shows like you were. You were. We were in London. Yeah. We went to that one, which I because that was right on the tail end of like BLM and all those things. And I was like blown away by that specific show in London. Yeah. Bars, bears, bars, Spears. Spears, London. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's when I was first exposed to your work. And so the fact that you're sitting in a living room. Thank you. I appreciate you being here having me. Okay, so let's start with the origin story. Let's set the story. And I know that there could be a perspective where people see you now and maybe do light digging and kind of see like a lot of the origin on the outside. But if we go back a little bit deeper, like how did you get here? I have no idea, to be honest with you.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:03:24) - I mean, I. I mean, I grew up in a in a home that was filled with art, like my dad was in music. You know, we had records plan all the time. My mom did interior design. I played sports my whole life, but also kind of like the kid that was on the team That was a little bit weird, you know, Like I was kind of like, you know, always going to art museums and like, doing the whole thing and like, so I was exposed to art early on. Where are you from? I'm actually from 1000 Oaks. Okay. Okay. Yeah, but I kind of moved around all over Ventura County, so. Very, like transient childhood. Graduated high school from Westlake and Westlake Village. And then I moved to Arizona. And so in high school, did you hang out with the art kids? Like, what was your vibe like? I was a I was an athlete, so I was playing football, basketball. I played volleyball for a year.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:04:08) - And then I actually went to college to play basketball. What's cool? Northern Arizona. Okay, It didn't work out. Oh, yeah. Okay. Did not work out. That was flag, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But why didn't it work out? It was something that I think my dad wanted me to do, but, like, I was never really into sports like that. I just, like, wanted to hang out with my friends. And also, it was the only thing I was kind of good at at the time. So like, it was something, like, it was like, Yeah, I'll just go to college and sit on the bench for four years and go play pro in Mexico or something, you know, that type of thing. That was kind of like my trajectory. So can we stop there for a second? When you say, I think maybe my dad wanted to do it, was it something that explicitly said or is it just like a son? This is what we do? I mean, it was just kind of like, what else am I going to do? You know? So it was kind of like everything that I'd done until that point was for me to go play basketball, you know, that type of thing.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:05:00) - So like, you know, I played a ball growing up. I did that whole thing, but I took like a couple art classes in high school and it was like nothing. It was just kind of something like, Oh, I can kind of draw, you know? And I just needed the AP credit, so. Okay. Yeah, it's crazy. So this is where I want everybody to understand. It's like, yes, basketball, all that stuff. But where you are now, these big international shows, like if you just start going backwards from that to a guy who was like, Well, I kind of took some art one time and I could kind of draw. That blows my mind. Yeah, well, there's that part of it. But, you know, once art became my interest, that became my passion, which eventually became my career. There's so much that goes into what I'm doing now to get me to like the next level, that type of thing. So it's not just like, Oh, I just kind of took art, you know, that.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:05:48) - Then it was, you know, that's all I can do, you know, Like I just didn't know what I wanted to do. But now it's like, no, like I'm dedicating like, my whole life to this. And, you know, just because, like, I've seen what where it's taken me so far and I see where hopefully it can take me in the future. Yeah. So yeah, it's so few people in art in general that make it at all. Like, you know, I mean, yeah, I want to know like some of the things that were maybe early leading indicators because look, you're a successful person whether you pick up a paintbrush or not or basketball. Yeah. Or any of that, Right. So there is probably some actual makeup in some ways that you think and the way that you view the world that I'm very interested in in terms of that. Because the other thing I want to say is kind of a two parter is where I met you. We were both like struggling, right? Yeah.

Jasmine Star (00:06:38) - Like, how did you guys meet? Yeah. So we met a long time ago through a mutual friend. But it was really funny because we might as well have been living, like, on the couch somewhere and, like, I was living on the couch, and. And I laughed because at that point in that moment, did you still know you were Johnny Chitwood? And what I mean by that question is Johnny Chitwood, Now the guy that I met, we were struggling. Whatever. Was there something inside of you that was like, Yeah, but I, I know that there's something else here. You know what? I don't. I think so. But I never knew it. So I think there's something in me that was just like, I'm going to make something of myself. I don't know what that is yet. I went to film school for a bit and I just hated it, you know, like, yeah, So I ended up dropping out. So like, I'm just going to be a teacher.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:07:21) - And then I hated that. So like, I just dropped out of school, completely, started working in restaurants full time. That whole thing. So this is like I'm like, I'm like, Yeah, I need to know the story. I've lived a lot of lives. Yeah. So. So you're in Flagstaff feeling it back a little bit. Sorry, Marcus. No, it's all right. So you're in Flagstaff? Yeah. You just think you're going to ride the bench for four years and then go play in Mexico? Sure. Okay. Yeah. You're really. You're kind of, like, open, right? You're just, like, very fluid at this point. Like, I'm very. Go with the flow. Okay, cool. Always have been. And so then you said a year into it, you knew it just wasn't for you. Yeah. I mean, it was I got kicked off the team basically because of grades. And just like, I never really applied myself to anything, okay? And I just didn't want to, like, there's nothing there for me, you know? So then do you leave Arizona and you go back to Ventura County? No, I actually moved to Phoenix.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:08:11) - Okay. And that's where we met. Yeah. So my Phoenix days way back, I feel like everybody had to go through the desert to find the water. You know what I'm saying? Okay. But it was. It was those smell. Hey, you can't use that. But but it is it is true, though, that I feel like we met at a desert season of life. And it was cool because, you know, when you like meet other people and you kind of feel that it's like this kindred ness that you have, I think that's when I was like, okay, cool. This guy isn't the guy that's like going to quit all this stuff. He was finding what he liked, and that's how I think you're a journeyman. It's how I felt when I was when I first met you. I mean, that's cool that I give off that energy because, I mean, I totally am, you know, and a lot of my life has kind of been what actually works for me.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:08:59) - Like, I felt like I had to try so many different things to figure out, like, does this serve me? Is this going to take me anywhere? Is this not going to work? I don't like that right away. So I'm just not, you know, that type of thing. And I've always kind of had this like, I guess, like a deep desire to, like, understand myself and also, like, understand like who I want to be, if that makes sense. You know, you're talking to people who literally that has what we do. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. Can I stop for a second? Any time. So I wonder, though, when you had said, I'm asking myself, does it serve me? I'm letting go of what doesn't serve me. Like, to me, all I hear is like, that feels very courageous. There's a lot of people who stay in situations that's not serving them. So is this an innate quality? How did you sharpen it? Like somebody listening and saying, Listen, like Johnny, I know I'm not going to plan myself to grades or to being a teacher.

Jasmine Star (00:09:50) - Walk us through what your brain does that somebody else might apply it. I wish I can articulate like what my brain actually, you know, I think being an artist, like any type of creative where exactly it comes from or like what that moment is, but there's this like leap of faith that you have to take because there's so much unknown, you know, especially like Marcus, you said earlier, like so few people make it as an artist, you know? And it's true. I mean, there's there's a lot of artists, you know, but like to have a career as an artist. I don't understand the art world and that's okay. But like, I know that what I'm doing is what I need to be doing because it's all I want to do. That's all I want to do. Yeah, but it's like the only thing like I'm passionate about and it's like the only thing that I've ever, like, seen through in my life, you know, because, like, you'll try so many things and kind of like, what I'm saying is, like, what serves me.

Jasmine Star (00:10:38) - So like, you start so many different ideas or these like, business plans or these like, you know, relationships or whatever, and like, things just fizzle out, you know, and some things just don't work. And being an artist is the only thing that really, like, I've ever worked hard at. And it's the only thing that actually just this, the only thing I like, I'm passionate about, I guess, you know, and like, there's some unpack there though. Yeah, no, that's in a good way. I'm saying that if you're a listener right now and you're thinking about this as a business owner and as a creative, you deal with two things. One, you can get a reputation as somebody who just starts things and doesn't finish them, which is interesting, right? I want to talk about moving away from that identity a little bit, but in that reputation, but also like dealing with failure. And I want to ask it because I bet you in your brain you don't look at those things as failures.

Jasmine Star (00:11:27) - Am I okay to say that, or do you think you saw them as like, this didn't work? I think yeah, I do. I mean, I see them as this just didn't work and now I have that gain experience and that gained knowledge. And now I know what doesn't serve me, you know, and just being okay with that and just moving forward and kind of figuring out like, where is my place in this, you know, in this ecosystem of the art world or, you know, it applies so hard to me because I'm a person who really cares a lot about what other people think. And so what I think I'm trying to get at is you're very unique in that way. I've never actually seen you care a lot about what people think. And I know you're on social and I know a lot of people like follow you and stuff, but tell me about your mindset around that, because I think sometimes that can be really crippling and it's really interesting. Sorry to Yeah, but it's really interesting for me because I am someone that I don't generally care.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:12:19) - I mean, like I think because I'm human, like, you know, I want to like, be recognized for the work I do and all that stuff, but like, and also like, you know, there's the art markets and there's like strategy that has to go into making this career actually work for you because like, our world is wild, you know? But I care, but I don't care. And it's always like this, like, you know, tug of war that I'm always having with myself because it's like. I need to just care about the work. And like, all I want to do is just make the work and just make it be about the work and not care about other people's input in like what I'm doing. But at the same time, like, I have to figure out how to care about certain things because it's my career. And like, you know, being an artist is more or less like my identity at this point, just because, like, I'm actually putting myself on canvas and all that stuff.

Jasmine Star (00:13:11) - Okay, so we're here in Art is your identity, and then there's somebody listening and they believe it's their identity, but they haven't like embraced it. So if we go back to the guy who moved to Phoenix and realize that teaching it wasn't a failure, it was, oh, a life lesson learned. It was a learned experience and it wasn't for you. And then you went into waiting tables. Yeah. So I at this point, I moved back to Phoenix and, what, 2006 and I was going to school for like two years. I was at Arizona State hating everything but having a good time, and I just dropped out of school like I couldn't afford it anymore. So I started working in restaurants. And, you know, if you work in restaurants, you have like double shifts and all that stuff. And I'm just like, just tired, just like, you know, all that stuff. And I kind of got to a point where I wasn't painting at this point. Like, you know, I wasn't even really into art like that, you know? But I got to a point where I was like, I just need something.

Jonni Cheatwood(00:14:05) - I need, like an outlet. I like looking back at it now, I'm kind of like, wow. Like, I knew back then I needed an outlet, you know? So I feel like most people don't realize that. But like, there's like some. I don't know what it was. That's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cool, I guess, But. But like, go back, you need an outlet. And then what do you do? You go to Michaels, you go to Home Depot, like, where do you where does one begin? Really funny. So like I didn't I never like outwardly say like, oh, I want to paint, you know, it was just kind of something that I was kind of interested in. Like I would see like the Shepherd Fairey, like Obey and like all that stuff, like the street art. I was like, Oh, that's kind of cool. And then I was like, I just kind of want to learn how to paint.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:14:45) - So I came home back to California for like a Christmas break, and my sister was friends with the guy who worked at the art supply store, and she just got like, I think she had like, taken them from the store. But she had like a fun like this, like, really good, like golden paint, like stuff I use now and like, all these, like, brushes and all this stuff. And I was like, I'm taking these back to Arizona. So I literally just took them from my sister and then took them back to Arizona and just started painting. Do I understand it? Like you started painting with like quality stuff at the beginning, Like, yeah, can you talk about gold paint? Like, not it was stolen. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you know, so, so, you know, I had, I had good quality stuff from the jump, so. Hey, but yeah, so I brought that stuff back with me and I started painting and I.

Jasmine Star (00:15:33) - What did you paint on canvas paper walls. What was coming to canvas like? There was. I would like go in the alleys and like find like old chairs and like kind of like sand them and, like, paint the little seats on the chairs and paint like desk I would find and anything I could. And so you're doing this like before in the middle after double shifts, like this is how you are. Like, Yeah, I mean, you know, my days off, like I would just paint or like I would get home early or not early, but like, get home in like midnight. Just like, stay up till like four. And just like, it was a surprise to us, like as a friend group. Yeah. It was like, oh, Johnny paints now. Johnny paints now. Yeah. But not just like Johnny's painting stuff. Like, no, Johnny is a painter now, Like, because it was like, you know, Johnny was a barista yesterday, right? And making us our hot toddies and stuff.

Marcus Murphy (00:16:18) - And now it's like, crazy because I remember the first one that caught my eye was that you did a dripping technique. And what's interesting to me is, like, I thought about it as art because of the finished product. You thought about it as art, as a process. And I think that that's interesting because it's evolved over time. And when I look at your work and when I watch like this kind of evolution, some part of me kind of still is baffled by it because it just felt so abrupt. And by the way, this wasn't 20 years of like year or whatever. This has been a rapid journey, like a really quick start. When did you steal the paint from your sister? What year is this? Probably like I think we got that was in eight 2009, somewhere in there. Okay. And then Johnny, the barista turns into Johnny the painter. And then, like, at what point do people actually pay you for your payment? Yeah, a friend of mine, Ethan, I was like painting in the in my front yard in, like my apartment.

Jonni Cheatwood(00:17:08) - And he was like, Hey, are you done with that? And I was like, No. He's like, Well, I want to buy it. And I was like, okay, cool. You know, I don't know. You know, whatever. Yeah. And he was like, How much is your rent? And I was like, 150 bucks. He's like, I'll pay your rent. So I was like, okay, cool. You know, that type of thing? No, but also how crazy my rent was 150 bucks. Yeah, but that's the thing he points out from the story. Like, I don't know, like, we got way more. Yeah. Okay. So, Ethan, is he somebody? He lives in the apartment complex. He was just like, a part of, like, the friend group, you know? Okay. And so then did he take the unfinished piece or did you? He took it, too. Yeah. Dang. Somebody came up.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:17:44) - Okay. But that's a good gift right there. Yeah. I mean, it was. It's not the best painting, you know, like. But it was fun, though, because, like, you know, I got so engulfed by, like, the idea of, like, painting. It was, like, fascinating. It was like the only thing that I cared about and like, the only thing I like, wanted to, like, figure out and like, wanted to, you know, that type of thing. Okay. I'm sorry I keep on going back because I just I'm a storyteller and, like, I'm seeing you in a very nonlinear. So. No, that's an artist, bro. I'm like, you know, just creating, creating, be all like, Yeah, yeah. So I'm picturing you outside of your apartment complex, and Ethan says, I'll pay your rent. And at that point, are you like, Oh, that's my homie doing me a solid like I'm sure he likes it? Or is it like, Oh, like my work can be bought and sold? I think I took it as he did me solid, you know, that sort of thing.

Marcus Murphy (00:18:36) - So 2008, you take it. When does Ethan buy the piece? Somewhere around like 2008. 2000. Okay, so you've been painting like, I don't know, 9 to 12 months somewhere? Kind of. Yeah. And then your first sale then. And then after that. How long until the next sale? I don't think a long time, because I think it was more or less like my friends just kind of being like, Hey, I have a chair, will you paint it? I was like, Yeah. So I wasn't like really wanting to make money out of it. It was just kind of like mentally I needed to do this, you know? So did you hear me? Like, I didn't want to make money. And both of us were like, huh, Yeah, but but the second part of that is where I really was exhaling. Because it's funny that you did something that you really cared about and the money followed, like you did something that you were just passionate about.

Marcus Murphy (00:19:18) - And again, I get it. I want to get into the marketing behind this and the whole like there's a game to this whole thing that I really want you to unpack for us. But I do think that it's like, Wow, I would have just painted a paint and just done chairs and done my thing. And then there is a bridge gap between that Johnny and this one. But I like the idea of there is a big mental shift there being like, Wow, I'm just going to do something and dedicate myself to it. I mean, I didn't know that being a painter was a career, you know, unless you're like a Picasso or like, you know, the like, I didn't go to art school, so like, I only knew, like the Warhol, Basquiat, Picasso, because like, that's who everyone knows, you know, that type of thing. But like, I didn't think that I would ever get to the caliber of like, being in a gallery or that type of thing.

Jasmine Star (00:20:00) - It was just kind of something I was just like, I just want to do this on the side, you know? Yeah. So, yeah. Okay. So then from the outdoor paintings, like, what's the next big jump? Like when do you leave next, big jump? What was it? Somebody had to start? No. So I think what was really cool is I lived in this kind of like big community of like, friends that kind of understood that, like I was becoming this artist type of thing, you know? I don't know. And I was painting in my living room and I was living in this like the $150 apartment was like four other guys living in that two bedroom apartment, you know, that type of thing. And I was just like in this corner, just like kind of painting and like, spray painting, like on the door, like the closet doors and stuff like that. And it was fine. Like, it was fun, you know? And it was like everyone just kind of kind of came in and we all hung out and I was fine, you know.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:20:53) - But we had another friend group who lived in a house with a garage behind us. So I'm like, Hey, can I use your garage? Like, Yeah, of course. That was like my first, like little like makeshift studio. And it was cool because like, friends like, really supported me, I guess, you know, without like, saying that they're like, We support everything you do. It was just like, no, like we have the space, like come and use it, you know, and yeah, yeah. And then like, Redemption gave me a space at their campus and stuff like that. So I'm like, people were like coming alongside of me this whole time to support, to support me, even though, like, I didn't know what I was doing, you know, it's just something that I feel like, yeah, like we have space, dude, we knew what you were doing before you were doing it. That's kind of the cool part, is like, I feel like I got behind your work maybe before you did, which is an interesting thing you say out loud.

Jasmine Star (00:21:40) - But these people obviously saw something in you. And I think that's really there's two things here that I hope are big takeaways. One is you put yourself into a place where people could insert themselves into that story publicly. Publicly. I feel like that's a big thing. And then you had a community, which I think that people you know, if you have a big vision, it's actually it takes more people. The bigger it is. Yeah. And so I feel like this guy here that's standing here probably has a bunch of people behind him. I mean, not to fast forward to what we'll probably get to, but I mean, though painting, it's like a very, like individual thing. I work with so many people that have so many people on their teams and not so many people, but like, you know, every I work with like four galleries across the world now, maybe five anyways, and they have their own network and all that stuff. So like I'm kind of like being inserted in like all these different places and it's a big support system, you know? And even though like it, I'm in a room.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:22:36) - Ten, 12, 15 hours a day, sometimes by myself just painting. There's so many people on the outside and that's the cool thing, you know? But to go back to being college or dropping out of college, yeah, I just had a lot of people around me that just were really cool and supportive and like no one was like, Oh, that sucks because it did suck, you know? But, you know, but like, no one was like, You should stop painting. And I think that's why I kept going or like, why I kept like, pursuing painting because like, no one told me to stop. And like, also I think that I have like, a lot of, like, I guess, like insecurity about like, how I'm being perceived kind of like what you were saying earlier. But like, I think that if someone is like, this is really. Can I cuss on here? Yeah. Okay. Come as you are like this is really like, you know, I would be like, oh man, like I'm terrible.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:23:26) - Like, I suck, you know, it's like this downward spiral, like me maybe being an athlete and kind of being like, Oh, I do suck, you know, that type of thing. So because that never really happened until I became a full time artist, I was like, No, I'm going to keep doing this. And it's fun. And, you know, like, I still work at Cartel and like, I still I was actually working coffee shop, coffee shop. But I was also working, remember, like Fox restaurant concept. Yeah. So I'd also was working at one of his restaurants and so I was like two jobs, just got married, painting on the side when I could, that type of thing. Yeah. So anyways, I just want to pause and I want to just deal a couple things. There's people who are listening and immediately want to do is we want to put ourselves in a good story. Sure. And so I want to make this story accessible because what I heard was three things letting go.

Jasmine Star (00:24:17) - It isn't serving us using as a lesson and not a failure. Number two, painting in public. To me. I don't know what that is because I don't know how else to identify the power that it is. Because when I started my career, I get a lot of photographers asking, but how do I build my business? And my knee jerk response was, I got business when I was out in public with my camera. Yeah. And so it's like if you are just shooting and you show people the thing that you are doing to the unknowing eye, you're doing something successful. Yeah. And I think naturally, like as an artist, a lot of us are like just very quiet. We're reserved, we're insecure. We're kind of, you know, it's really hard to be vulnerable showing your work. Yes. Especially like when you don't even know exactly what you're doing yet, you know? Yes. And I think, like when you go to a place like art school, for example, like you have critiques, there's always people like with eyes on your work, you know? Yeah, I didn't have that.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:25:09) - I just had friends that are like, not necessarily like, yeah. Or, you know, but they're like, This is kind of cool, you know? So like, I kind of took it and ran. But I think because I did it in a public way, like you're saying, it was really easy for me to kind of like show the work. That's right. World, You know, the process. Yeah. And just like, what's the worst someone can say is like, no, like. It's fine. I think the third thing that I heard was having a community, but doing whatever it took to continue doing the thing. And so I heard community around you, but then you're like, I also did all this other stuff. Like it wasn't like I immediately needed to monetize this thing that I'm trying to build. It was I need to create and then get people around that. Yeah. I mean, I didn't even know what I was trying to create at that point. It was just I just need this, you know, like, I just need.

Marcus Murphy (00:26:01) - Can I ask you a question that I think is going to be I just very curious. So artist like you look at a blank canvas, for example, where do you know to start Like and I think this is an interesting thing for people like I get sometimes overwhelmed by this big open space. That's right. And I think that there's so many opportunities for all of us. If you're looking at a canvas, I know this is such a deep question. No, I know, I know. But I would I would love to know that because there's a lot of transitional things for people to understand. Yeah. I mean, for me, in the way that I paint because like, I came from a very abstract background, I guess, you know, like everything I was doing up until that show in London was abstract, you know? So it's all about, like, intuition. So like, you kind of have to, like, start somewhere and then make a move, adapt, you know, it's you're putting more or less you're kind of like figuring out this puzzle that's, that doesn't exist, you know? And it's a tricky thing.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:26:56) - But also it's really cool though, because like, if you put in the work to do it, you're kind of like, I can chip away at this and it doesn't look like anything now. It kind of sucks. Now it's nothing. I suck, I'm a failure. But then, like you kind of like keep keep working at it and you're literally telling you, oh, this is kind of like this is a business story. This is a business story. Business, man. Yeah, that's right. I'm a business man. Say it again. Say it again. No, but seriously, though, this is this is literally such a great metaphor for it. And I think a lot of times, too, like people, they're like, oh, you're just an artist. Like all you do is paint and all this stuff. And I'm like, No. I spend all my time preparing to paint, you know? So it's like, okay, I don't I will get there. Yeah.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:27:35) - But like, it's not like a linear thing. It's like you're kind of like peaks and valleys and like, running errands and doing emails and what is there to paint? Preparing to paint. So like, basically, like, how I'm working now is I'm working on figurative work. So like, I'm trying to like, tell more of stories. And also all my canvases are like sewn together using like different textiles and stuff. So I'm spending a lot of my time just like sewing or trying to figure out what I'm going to paint because like, now I have to make like a good composition, that type of thing, or make a composition that like works for me or like what I'm trying to. Yeah. You know, with these figures and like, trying to figure out how to make the fabrics look like, you know, the interior scenes that like, I'm trying to do, like if you look at my work is easier to explain. But and then also just like prepping the canvases to work, washing the brushes, going to supply store, just doing like all the busy work.

Jasmine Star (00:28:26) - And that's like what I mean by preparing to. Is that helpful? Because it's funny, if I'm stumped, I go cut the grass. I mean, I just go sit down. Yeah. Really? Oh, really? You just go sit there. Yeah. Oh, no, That would drive me crazy. Hell, no. Well, I mean, because like, for me now is like, I can overwork something and I will just be like, Oh, like I'm going to work at it, work at it, work at it until it's like, good enough, I guess. But like, sometimes taking a step back is so much better. And like, I think I just learned that like, kind of like the last year or two of making this like figurative work. So I'm kind of like, Wait, I don't actually know what I'm doing right now, so I'm not going to keep working at something, just the whole word. I just feel like this is like I'm about to stand up with like a hankie because it was like a it was like a sweat hanging, you know? Church.

Jasmine Star (00:29:15) - Come on. That's right. That's right, man. Fanning myself had a conversation with my husband and business partner in what he said was, I think you need to take a break. And I was like, No, no, it feels unsafe. Like I'm like, be alone with my feelings. Like, take some time to sew my canvas, like proverbial canvas, like, dude, that takes a level of swagger. Confidence like it's also trial and error. I mean, so many years I spent, like, not taking a break, you know, that type of thing. So it's I'm a workhorse. Like, I love working. It's what I do, like. I love just being in my studio, like, you know, But you kind of get to the point where kind of like, I need to, like, take a step back. You know, that type of thing. And just to gain perspective. Yeah, just like it can literally be like just a step back, just to like 10s.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:30:04) - Just to actually look at the painting, you know, that type of thing. Because like, most of the time I'm like, you know, nose to the painting, just trying to figure it out. But I'm like, Wait, I don't even know what this actually looks like. I was wondering if you got lost in it sometimes. Yeah, just kind of like, wait a minute, What if I forget what I was doing? He's like, black out, And you're like, you know, five hours later, you're like, Huh? Like. But yeah, I mean, just. I just go sit down. Okay, so what's the turning point? I feel like I have a really good sense of, like, an origin story, and I'm sure there's a ton of peaks and valleys in the middle. Sure. Did you have a moment where you were like, oh, like this is a career, Like this is a business. Um. Yes. Yes. I mean, just to jump around like my life story, I guess.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:30:52) - I moved back to Flagstaff in like 2011 and, like, fully, like, understanding like, I want to be an artist, you know, that type of thing. But we have a mutual friend, Marcus and I have a mutual friend who invited me to, like, move back up there to like, kind of start this, like, art program after school. I don't know what it was, but, um, at the time it was just like, I don't have like, a career lined up. I don't have. I try to get a job at Yelp. Yeah, first of all, he did. He did try to get a job on Yelp two, two interviews. And I was just like this, This is not for me. What was the role like? Mean sales? Something like. Yeah, it was like, you know, because like bless your heart. Yeah I wouldn't it bro you calling people would be like, Hey, I like to talk to you about your ads.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:31:37) - No, it's so funny, though, because, like, you guys would always come the cartel. Yeah. And so, like, the I forget his name now, but like, the manager. Ryan Rollins. Yeah. Him shout out. Right. Um, he interviewed me twice, I think. And, like, I felt like I kind of, like, knew him. Like, you know, I kind of like buddy buddy because we always, like, see each other. And like, in the interview, like, I think I said, like, what did he say? He's like, Why do you think you'd be a good role or a good fit here? And I was like, Look, man, like, I just don't suck. Like I said that, like, what an answer. And it's like, all right, man, I'll call you. You call me. Yeah. And then, like, you know, like another girl called me, she was like, hey, like, you know, just confirm your interview.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:32:17) - Like, positions, like, 30 grand a year. Is that okay? And I was like, hell, yeah. You know, that's because, like, I didn't have money at the time. I was, like, 30 grand. Yeah, let's do it. 30 grand, son. And I was like, insurance and, like. Like meat. Food. Yeah. Oh, tech companies will get you with that 25. Like, yeah, we'll give you about enough to breathe and live. Yeah, but free snacks. Free snacks. Yeah. Putting greens, ping pong gong. Uh, no, no, no. So I moved back to Flagstaff because I was just like, I have nothing else to do. Like, literally, I think at that point I was planning on moving up to, like, Oregon and just like, living in my car and, like, just doing that whole thing because I was like, Yeah, sounds awesome, right? Yeah, yeah. And but like, I'm also someone that I know how to survive and I also know how to adapt and figure things out, you know? Does this survival story come from because I know we're talking about your origin, but yeah.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:33:14) - Was there a time that that was that happened to you in your life? Like, yeah, I mean, I mean, I moved around a lot as a kid, so like, I think a lot of artists do, like not I don't want to say that actually, but like, my own personal story is like, I moved around a lot as a kid. My parents got divorced when I was like really young. Grew up in like Section eight. That type of thing. So like, I don't have like financial safety net, like I never did that type of thing. So I was just like, you know, like, I'll figure something out. Like I can make $5 less for like two weeks if I needed to. You know? So I don't think my lifestyle now will let me do that. But like, if I actually had to do it like I could and that's fine, you know, and I'm a very patient person. And so I was just like literally like rolling out of bed and like painting on the side of my bed, you know? And I started taking, like, I wanted to get into photography just because, like, I kind of got to a point where I was like, so obsessed with art that like, I was learning.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:34:10) - I wanted to learn all the different mediums and like, who inspired this person or like, you know, where did this person draw his like, paintings from her, like, you know, that type of thing. So like, in a sense, I'm like teaching myself art school, you know, just backwards. And I got to the point where I was like trying to, you know, mess with photography. And I was like, I took a picture of myself in my kitchen. And then I poured paint on it, and I was like, it's kind of cool. And at the time, like, selfies were like kind of getting big. And I was like, I want nothing to do with that. So I'm going to cover my face, that type of thing. I wasn't the first one that really went big. And then Tumblr was a big thing too. So like, so you pour the paint on this photo in Flagstaff. Yeah. Or his face, which was the one that really early days when you Google your name like that one still comes up.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:34:54) - Yeah. So like this is like 2011, 2012, you know, and I put it in this art competition on Tumblr or whatever, and it's just like went crazy and like, people were like, you know, picking it up, picking it, you know, reblogging it, whatever. And in that competition, I ended up being like a semifinalist in this art space Tumblr thing or whatever. And that was the painting that kind of got me to where I am now, basically, because like, you know, I put that painting in the right place at the right time. The right people saw it, Those people shared it with someone else. And then eventually Usher called, well, not him personally, but like his assistant called me when I was at work. And what year is this? So? 2011. Yeah. Okay. People start sharing the right people, share it, connect with the people all time high at that point too. Yeah. So also I went back to Flagstaff for like about a year, maybe a year and a half.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:35:48) - I got engaged, moved back to Phoenix. My wife will now wife was living in Tempe. So like I just went back down there to be with her. And so I'm working in restaurants down there and I'm like setting up the bar one day and I get this phone call from like in Los Angeles number. So I just didn't answer because I don't know the number. And she leaves a voicemail and I just listen to it. I go to the Dish Pit, listen to it, and it was like, Hi, hi, Johnny Chitwood. My name is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Calling on behalf of Usher Raymond. And I was like, Wait, what? You know, so I like, listen to it. And I was like, This is weird. So I go to my chef and I was like, Hey, listen to this. So like, I play in the Voice now, he's like, Go call her right now. So I was like, You thought it was fake? Yeah.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:36:32) - Yeah. I thought it. Yeah. Also didn't know Usher's government name, by the way. Yeah. So no idea. I thought it was just Usher. Yes, I called her, I called it back, and I was like, this is what I missed your call. She's like, Oh, yeah. Like Usher saw your work on this website called Found, and he's like, doing like, a 20 year performance of, like, you know, all of his albums that he's done over the last 20 years. He wants you to pour paint on top of all of this album covers and like, it's going to be like a, you know, remember, you know, that type of thing. I was like. Yeah. Okay. And she's like, Can you come to LA this weekend? And I was like, I mean, I have to work. I have to get my shift covered. Yeah, but you have to get the dish covered. But I was like, I'll figure it out, you know? So it ended up not happening, but it reached out to me and he was like, Hey, like, I want to work with you and like, some other things.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:37:22) - So the target thing came from that and the target thing. The target thing is the where you be. So Target and you collaborative collaborated with Usher to do like this school supply line back to school like yeah and yeah they put my work on it so my work is in target and stuff like that. I was like, This is sweet. You know, you literally went from I poured paint on a self portrait because I was really against selfies and I put it on Tumblr kind of to like in LA with Usher. And now your work is in Target. Yeah, that was how that window of time. Very fast. Very fast. Whoa. So, so really, it's weird to say this, but Usher was kind of the jump off point to to.

Jasmine Star (00:38:03) - So let me break this down if I hear it right. Usher.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:38:06) - It's so interesting you came in. It's so interesting, though, because like, I did that and then we were going to work on another project with Pepsi and it didn't end up working out.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:38:18) - I don't know. There's too many chefs in the kitchen. It just didn't work out. But they agreed to pay me like but like there's a lot more. I mean, for to what I had, you know, was like very, very good. So I was like, you know, like, I think I can do commercial art, you know, that type of thing. And so I go to my wife and I was like, Hey, like, I want to pursue this. And she was like, Cool, let's do it, you know? So I we moved back to LA and I mean, there's a lot of like, struggle in that time because like, the money didn't come and we're in LA and we're kind of like our car just got repaired and like my phone just got cut off and like all this stuff. So it was a really hard time because like, I really wanted to make art work. Like, I mean, I dedicated everything to it, you know, like I just moved my new wife to LA because of it.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:39:05) - And it was like, I have to figure this out, you know? I mean, I eventually got paid and it was fine, but by being back in LA, I got introduced to like this artist's residency through another collector who, like, bought like one of my paintings randomly. So that is what got me to where I'm at now. As in like the fine art world, you know? Yeah. Just because, like, I didn't know how the world works. I didn't know about collectors, I didn't know about galleries, I didn't know anything.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:39:31) - So can I repeat it back? Sure. Somebody bought a painting.

Jasmine Star (00:39:34) - Introduced you.

Jasmine Star (00:39:36) - To. Well, you know, you kind of alluded to it, but I wanted to make sure that I heard it right. So somebody bought a painting and introduced you to a residency program, and it's through the residency program that you're like, Oh, like this is the game. And if I understand the rules of the game, I can then create my own.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:39:50) - But first, like, this is where I'm learning it.

Jasmine Star (00:39:52) - Yeah. So that residency.

Jasmine Star (00:39:55) - Whereabout in.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:39:55) - LA, it was in downtown. It's called Hooper Projects. It's no more. But it was started by two, like mega collectors.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:40:03) - Okay.

Jasmine Star (00:40:04) - Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's crazy though, because you actually have had because if you go to your studio now, Sure. It's not too far from there. Right. And so it's like it's like less than ten minutes. But also it's like I just want to put this in perspective because I feel like I know we're running out of time and all that stuff, but no, no, no, no, no.

Jasmine star (00:40:21) - Because here's the thing. Like, I just feel like if do you have an extra like 15 minutes I want to get into this is where like the business business part of it.

Jasmine Star (00:40:29) - That is like, that's what we're talking about. No, no.

Jasmine Star (00:40:33) - No, no. But here's the thing. Like, Marcus, please do not do not forget your question is I think it's so important that, like, people actually here, like taking the call in, like the dish pit and then asking somebody in disbelief and then calling somebody coming out here and then it doesn't work.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:40:47) - Yeah. And then, like being like, okay, I still think we can make it work. And then coming out here with a new bride, getting a proposed contract that didn't actually work with it caused like a really low point. Oh, yeah. And then it's like the ability to be like, No, I'm going to figure this out. I feel like it's so important that we like really focus on that part because so many people are freaking in the Dish pit and they're like, I'm done.

 Jonni Cheatwood(00:41:08) - It's really, I think a part of my personality is like, I'm really good at persevering. I get it from my mom. She's Brazilian, came here like when she married my dad and all this stuff. And she was also the one who was just like, Hey, like you have every opportunity in the world, like you're American. You can do all this like it's stuff you take for granted. But like, for her, it's like, no, like you can do anything. So like, I think that's where I got, like, my, like, work ethic from, you know, that type of thing anyways.

Marcus Murphy (00:41:36) - So, yeah, like, so you got your work ethic from immigrant parent is always trying to say Yeah, yeah. Because I feel like that. Yes, I resonate. I think a lot of us resonate with that. Yeah. But it's also interesting because you're in LA, you're doing this piece, but there's also a game to be played. And I think if we have time to think about the business of it really quick before. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure. So tell us a little bit about how somebody builds out this part of it because like Jasmine just said, you're getting all this attention now. You have to monetize capitalized. That's probably not. A native to, you know, Not at all. I mean.

Jasmine Star (00:42:05) - At the residency, though, let's go back because I think people are going to wonder, sorry, I'm like belaboring this point, but I'm like, I know that at the end of this, I'm going to get questions. I'm like, I don't know how Johnny did it.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:42:14) - Okay, well, I do get the question of like, how do you make it as an artist? And I'd say like, there's no two artists have the same journey, No two hours. Are we going to have the same journey? You know, So like, what work for me won't work for someone else. And also to Instagram wasn't really a thing then, you know, I mean, it was, but it wasn't, you know, and also the art world. It's a really tricky place, though, because like at that time where I was like coming into the art world, you needed an MFA. Like if you if you were a like a person of color as an artist, like a black artist or whatever, you had to have gone to like Studio Museum in Harlem or gone to Yale to get your MFA. And like, it's not like a guarantee that you're going to have career, but like, you're going to have like, the eyes on you. It's like a built in audience.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:42:57) - I didn't have that, you know? So it was kind of like, I don't know what the art world is. I don't know. It looks like it sounds cool, but like, all I know is they just gave me a studio for three months and paid for my supplies and I'm just here, you know, So I just made work and that's all. At the end of the day, it's just making the work, you know? And I made work that I'd always wanted to make. It was like me stepping away from the whole, like, drippy thing and all that stuff. And I was just like, you know, trying to find my voice as an artist. And those, like, three months in this residency is like, what helped me get to that point, you know? And I think I learned a lot about like how collectors work, about how the art world works, about how galleries work. And if I'm being honest, like there's a lot of smoke and mirrors in the art world and I know that and I'm kind of like a participant in all of this stuff, but I can like, separate it because for me, it's the creativity.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:43:53) - It's what drives me, you know, and like, me kind of like showing up in my studio and like, that's where I'm like, okay, like, this is what I can contribute. I know it's a little bit off topic, but like, no, yeah. So the art world is interesting.

Jasmine Star (00:44:08) - Okay, so then after the residency and you're making art and you're finding your voice as an artist, there's like a couple key pivotal things that happen, like Ted.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:44:16) - Oh, that was recent and I wasn't there for that and I wish I was, but yeah, I just had an exhibition in Shanghai and they came and did that talk at my show there.

Jasmine Star (00:44:29) - And so what is the business strategy? Are you a part of this? Like, is it happenstance? Like how much of it are you driving and how much is it like these people surrounding you are being like you do you? And we're going to amplify.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:44:40) - It's that now. So like I've kind of gotten to the point where I have that support system around me that we're just like, Hey, like we represent you, we represent your work.

Jasmine Star (00:44:49) - So you have an agent.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:44:50) - Not like an agent, but like the galleries I work with are kind of like they represent me, they advocate for me.

Jasmine Star (00:44:58) - So this gallery is just reaching out to you, being like, We like your work or are you pitching the galleries well?

Jonni Cheatwood (00:45:02) - So it's interesting because you're not supposed to pitch it to the gallery, you know, that type of thing. It's just like historically, you're just like, they don't read like, you know, emails that just like you reach out to them. Yeah, but there's some one point where I was just like, Fuck it, I don't care. So like I started emailing it like a bunch of galleries and then years later, like they never responded. But like years later, they're kind of like, Hey, we just saw your work. And I'm like, I'm past, you know.

Jasmine Star (00:45:28) - Oh, that's like Julia Roberts Pretty Woman moment. Yeah. Big mistake. Huge.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:45:34) - No, but honestly, it's kind of funny.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:45:36) - But yeah, so galleries are like, reach out to me. And I think that I was just in the right place at the right time because I was in that residency and, you know, a lot of representative artists came out of there, a lot of good art, good arts came out of there. So, yeah, it's just the right place at the right time. And I just kind of took advantage of it, I guess, you know? And also I'm easy to work with and I think that plays a part in it. Yeah, you strike me as that. Well, yeah.

Jasmine Star (00:46:07) - Go ahead. Oh, no, no, no. I was going to say, I feel like I cut you off and I said, Don't forget your question.

Jasmine Star (00:46:10) - I was just going to say that I want to somewhat tie a bow because what I hope everybody actually heard is that there's a journey and it's long. And I think that that's part because there's a lot of impatience in the idea of all these things, right? Yeah.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:46:23) - And from the time that I got to that residency, I'd already been painting for what, like seven years, you know? And I didn't get my first gallery show until 2018, you know. So there's a lot of time where I'm just kind of like, Is this actually worth it? Like, how am I logically going to pay my bills? Because, like, you know, ideas don't pay the bills, like immediately, you know? So it's like, you know, you have to, like, print it out. Yeah, you have to be persistent. And yeah, I was just like, Well, I guess I'm in it now. So like, I have no choice but to. Yeah, that's such a humble thing to, by the way, because having multiple gallery shows all over the world, like the fact that we're sitting here not talking, bro, you were making lattes ten years ago and now you've got a show in Hong Kong or you had a show in London with me.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:47:18) - Like that part for me is just always a very fantastical journey. And it's it seems like it's one that is from somebody who actually just didn't give up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't know what I was doing. Most of the time I still don't know what I'm doing all the time, you know, it's just kind of like I'm open to everything and like, you know, I guess it kind of goes back to the very beginning where I was just like, some things serve me and some things don't, you know? And there are opportunities that come and I'm just like, This is cool. It would have been cool ten years ago, but like, it doesn't serve me now, you know? So you kind of learn to say no and pick and choose and, you know.

Jasmine Star (00:47:56) - Do you know who's buying your paintings? Like, is there somebody that, like, bought a painting? And then you're like, Oh my God.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:48:01) - I have a good idea of who buys my work.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:48:04) - Sometimes I don't, but like. Yeah, I know.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:48:08) - And you don't. You don't. You don't talk about it. Well.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:48:12) - Some collectors like very private, you know, their stuff, but also, like, I'm not in your face type of person, so I'm just kind of like, That's cool. I mean, as long as, like, you don't flip it right away, then I'm cool. Yeah. You know, Yeah, people actually do that. Jasmine So people will buy it and sometimes, like, you actually care where it goes. Yeah. So you actually so you might not want to have to disclose everything, but he knows every buyer because people will take his work, literally go and flip it around and resell it. So he has to be really careful who buys his work. That's where he's at in his career is that you kind of have a very I mean, this is like a whole other thing, but like this where the art world kind of gets like complicated and like, you know, there's so many like, games and all that stuff, but.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:48:53) - I just like making the work, you know? So. Yeah. Yeah.

Jasmine Star (00:48:58) - Interesting. So, like, half of me is thinking, man, Johnny Chitwood needs a jasmine star in his camp. But, you know, it was just like, blow. Like, I just think of everything behind that. Obviously, I'm not pitching myself. That's not what I would do, but like a really.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:49:12) - Good time to do that. Yeah, like, so like.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:49:15) - Going to a podcast. So what level would you like? I'm like, I'm back in back in sales. No.

Jasmine Star (00:49:22) - No, no, no, no, no. But it's a weird interview.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:49:26) - How do you feel about somebody coming in? Like, would you ever do that? Like to have somebody like build out that or do you think that the mystique is good for like, I'm gonna drop a word and I'm not even sure if I'm using the right context, but like, provenance matters to you, right? And so in that case, does do you think it devalues, like to show the process, to show like, like what is going on is you, the creator right now.

Marcus Murphy (00:49:45) - Followed you around and follow this whole career journey and what you're creating. And yeah.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:49:49) - Like I just.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:49:49) - Think and I think that person would be so bored it would be honest with you because like, you know, like I think, like what you see, like on my Instagram is like the finished product. Yes. And I understand how important it is to see the process of certain things, but also to I'm not great at social media. I'll just say that upfront. It's not my thing. But like I don't think to stop what I'm doing to be like, Oh, I should maybe film this, you know, because like I'm so like into, yeah, what I'm doing, I'm so into the process. I'm so into like, you know, problem solving that, like, I don't have like, the bandwidth to kind of be like, correct, I'm going to film this and then that type of thing. I do understand, like, you know, you kind of have to sometimes, Yeah, I don't want to, but yeah, have to.

Jasmine Star (00:50:36) - I don't have to do anything. But like, yeah, there is a, there is something to say though about having a team that would literally amplify everything that you're doing and offload that to you so that also that from you so that you can just do the things that you really want to do, which is be in the studio. And yeah, so there's part of that be there, I think because like I never knew exactly what type of artist I wanted to be or like where I would end up in my career. I think that now I've kind of gotten to like the gallery part, to the collector part, to the, you know, I'm doing shows. I already know my schedule for the next two years, you know, that type of thing. So like, there's so much more that I didn't know that I had access to. And I'm kind of like, how do I build this out? You know, like, how do I become like a a creative director or something like that, or how do I be, you know, that type of thing.

Jasmine Star (00:51:23) - I'm like, I never thought that this could be a thing, but I also didn't think that what I'm doing now could be a thing, you know? So it's like.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:51:30) - Like I'm literally having heart palpitations because I was just like, So then Johnny, we have the NFT, so Providence is like yours, and then you get a commission off every time it's resold. But okay, maybe not.

Jasmine Star (00:51:42) - There's not even.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:51:44) - Not even an NFT, as just as it is like a digital proof of like ownership. And how much does that painting mean to have somebody show the process of the creation of it? Like, do you think that somebody who is getting like a boss now would love to go back and have a third party 100%? Like, it's just crazy.

Jasmine Star (00:52:02) - Yeah. And I think that's kind of like what goes back into like, you know, needing to see the process because like, also, like I said earlier, like, I didn't go to art school. So like, I was looking at other people's process, you know? And so it's also kind of like, am I not being cool by not sharing my process? Oh, but also I'm just maybe like a little insecure about it and like also like, not insecure, but like.

Jasmine Star (00:52:26) - You know, I don't want people to see the bare bones of something, that type of thing. Maybe it's because my mom's like that, like little Brazilian lady. It's just like gets dressed up to go to the grocery store and that type of thing. So it's like, you know, like maybe that's just like, yeah, you want to like my DNA, but like, yeah, also I Marcus is going to laugh, but like, I also think that I'm boring when it comes to like all that stuff. So I'm like, No one wants to watch me paint like, no, no. People would love to watch you paint. Have you ever heard of a guy named Bob Ross?

Jonni Cheatwood (00:52:58) - If that's on a sales pitch, that's first of all, it's a.

Jasmine Star (00:53:00) - Joke. But seriously, though, I like I like watching the process. And I think there's a beauty in the process because the finished product is this guy who shows up and by all means on paper and on your Instagram and everything else is just wildly like kind of unapproachable in a way.

Jasmine Star (00:53:14) - And that actually isn't you. Yeah, true, Very true. And I guess also to like they're going to like a gallery a lot of times is like very cold, you know, like it's an unapproachable business for the most part. People are trying to elevate the value, though, in that space. Well, yeah, but like, also to like, if you don't know how galleries work, you kind of like go in, you're kind of like, how much is it to go in here? Like, you know, there's like a lot of, like, price tags. There's no price tag, but it's like, you know, that type of thing. It's like people are cold, they don't talk. It's not like a warm place. Most of the time. I feel like it's really amazing to be able to share an artist's journey because rarely are you doing any interviews at all. And so I value hearing your journey. I value seeing it from the beginning until now, and I feel like it is just any time that I can actually share kind of my front row seat with the rest of the world, I want to do that.

Jasmine Star (00:54:06) - So I know and by the way, for every listener, this is not what Johnnie wants to do. But this was like a favor. And I appreciate it because I know I mean, more than happy to hang out with you and talk to you. So good to meet you, too. No, I mean, this is actually a lot better than I thought it'd be. It was awesome. You know.

Jasmine Star (00:54:22) - I have to take a second, and I, in closing, just want to make sure that we're connecting the dots lesson number one was letting go of things that aren't serving you and understanding that it's not failures. And they're lessons painting in public, surrounding yourself by a community, being willing to do the work despite whatever outcomes, and then being able to do the work after a promising hope that didn't come to fruition. But like land into the right people, the right spaces, being able to take an even bigger risk to put you in the right places yet again, to be met with disappointment and repose, and then to find opportunities and leverage those opportunities like the residencies and then being okay with who you are, like being okay saying, No, I am not doing that type of art and I'm not posting it out on social or doing as much maybe on social.

Jasmine Star (00:55:11) - And I know who I am and I'm going to do it my own way. And I think that those are like the key takeaways that any creative or artist is listening to right now. I think that that would be the biggest shot of dopamine to be like, do it your own way. There's living proof.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:55:24) - Yeah. I think also to like, I just want to add this in because I do get a lot of people asking me about like, where do I go? How do I show my work and stuff like that. Artist residencies are the best thing. There's a website, I think it's called Rez Arts, either.com or.org, and it has a list of like all the residencies from every country say you want to go to Berlin, you just like type in Berlin. It'll give you like the list of all the residencies and some of them are free, some you have to pay for, some will pay for your flights and your lodging and all that stuff. Some don't, you know. And another thing too is like because I had to teach myself how art world works or like, you know, even like teach myself like art history.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:56:04) - I would go to like the big galleries, like Cozy and Pace, all that stuff. Zwirner and like, look at the roster and then like, kind of like familiarize myself with, with the artists, the big artists, like a blue chip artist. And a lot of these residencies will have like their alumni. And then I'm kind of like, Oh, this artist went to this residency, so this place has to be legit. So lineage is very important. Yeah. So I mean, that's just with like the contemporary art world, you know, there's like a million different avenues and, you know, but that's a great way to be able to give somebody that kind of Right.

Jasmine Star (00:56:36) - Thank you. Yeah, that's awesome. Those are like two very big takeaways for those of you who are interested in following Johnny's journey, the end products, of course, you can find him on Instagram at Johnny Underscore Chitwood. And I want to take a minute and say how much I appreciate what the journey has been with Marcus and with Johnny, but also speak out to the creators who are in like the Dish Pit answering their phones, like keep on pushing.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:56:59) - Like, you know for certain it will not work if you quit. So to those of you guys who have like strong, strong bellies and like really strong determination, I think I can speak for all three of us saying like, we are wishing you the best and today is not the day that you quit. Thank you for listening to the Jasmine Star Show. It is an honor and privilege to co-create with two very amazing artists in their own right doing their art in their own ways.

Jonni Cheatwood (00:57:20) - So flattered. I've never been called an artist, so this is fantastic. My dream. You're an artist. It's my dream. Thank you very much, you guys.

Jasmine Star (00:57:27) - Appreciate it. Thanks for listening to the show.