Jasmine Star (00:00:01) - Welcome to the Jasmine Star show. I feel extraordinarily lucky and blessed to bring somebody who have looked up to you for many years. I have invested in his coaching and programming, so it is a great pleasure to have somebody who is named one of Canada's top angel investors has invested in over 50 startups. He was a coach and is a coach and founder of SAS Academy. That is where our paths originally crossed. Dan Martell, welcome to the Jasmine Star show.

Dan Martell (00:00:40) - Jasmine. It's an honor. As you know, I'm a big fan of everything you do and just the opportunity to share with your audience. It's I know you don't take that lightly and it's it's really appreciated.

Jasmine Star (00:00:51) - Okay, so one of the reasons why I felt like you were here is that you have such a powerful insight into. Yeah, you've invested in a lot of businesses. You've been very, very well. You've also coached thousands of SaaS founders, and you think that you have this perspective of seeing oftentimes where business owners get stuck, where entrepreneurs, where founders.

Jasmine Star (00:01:10) - And so you see these patterns and you speak to it. So for people who are not familiar SAS Academy. So SAS is software as a service. I backed myself into becoming a SaaS founder, decided like, oh, I'm going to get into tech. And for a girl who is like unfunded, uneducated, unconnected, I'm like, where do I actually get started? And it came on a recommendation. Somebody had said, do you know Dan Martell? To which I didn't. This was about two years ago, and I started following, getting involved with what it was. And Dan has a very strategic way of bringing people into his ecosystem. And so I set up a sales call, and at the time, somebody was selling me into a course that Dan had and said, no, no, no, I want to get into this program. And they said, well, we're not quite sure if this program is a fit for you. And I literally weaseled my way into the program. And one of the things I was really surprised with is not just Dan as a coach.

Jasmine Star (00:01:55) - He has a bunch of coaches with him, and Yann was really speaking to mindset, really speaking around what gets in our way. And it's not just like knowledge, it's kind of like inside out. So I kind of wanted to tap there if that is cool with you.

Dan Martell (00:02:06) - Dan Yeah, I mean it's one of my favorite topics. You know, as I mentioned, I work with a lot of business owners and what I've noticed over the years, literally 15 years, you know, advising, investing, coaching and entrepreneurs is that there's different levels where people get stuck. The first level is about 300,000 in income, and we can call it plus or -20%. And the reason why people get stuck at that level, it's because they don't know how to properly delegate. So that's essentially the stage where you're just a rich specialist. Thank doctors. Thanks lawyers. But honestly, just a lot of small business owners that do one thing really well. And because they aren't good at hiring or collaborating or outsourcing, they'll always be stuck at this revenue ceiling.

Dan Martell (00:02:49) - At around 300,000 a year. The next level is around 3 million, right? What I call factors of three, the kind of the 2 to 3 million level. What happens at that stage is that entrepreneurs need to learn a new skill, which is not only just delegating, but learning how to work through other people. And that is where most people get stuck. They can go through that journey from, like, you know, half 1 million to 2 million in revenue. But I really think that that learning how to work through people, what I call transformational leadership, is the skill that's missing to keep growing. And that's why I wrote the book Buy Back Your Time to really unpack how to do that.

Jasmine Star (00:03:25) - Okay, so when somebody hears this and they're like, wait a minute, 300,000, 3 million, this guy clearly knows what is in front of me. But like, let's back up a little bit because it is a little bit personal, but you have it listed on your website that your first tech company venture failed.

Jasmine Star (00:03:38) - And so when we talk about that, we hear somebody of your success and stature. I really want to go back and say, like, you could speak to this because you've gone through that, like, how do you handle that level of setback? And then on the back of that setback, you coming in and being like, what had to change in order for you to get to your 300,000, 3 million and then thereafter.

Dan Martell (00:03:55) - Yeah, I mean, the funny part is, is not only that my first company fail, then my second one, I mean, I started luckily I just started at a young age. I was 17 and I grew up in a really, you know, challenging environment with addiction and emotional abuse at home and, you know, just a lot of anger and rage and, you know, that kind of scenario. And then I went through this transition where I got sober, you know, at 18 years old, I discovered software and computer programming. It literally became my new addiction and obviously a positive one.

Dan Martell (00:04:22) - And, you know, even though I, you know, gotten clean and I was being more I was being a good citizen essentially, like, I still didn't understand business, you know, and building something because you have a need doesn't mean that there's a business there. There's a whole part of it. So I just started and tried and like, remember the first company? It was a vacation rental site. You know, this is back in 1998, 99, kind of when the internet really started and I didn't even know how to get customers. I built this software. I built it for my dad and his friends that had these cottages they wanted to build a web page for. And I sat there and I said, well, how do I even get customers? And, you know, through a few conversations, I got lucky. A friend of mine told me about this tourism guy that listed all the bed and breakfasts in our area. And essentially I just took all that information and I loaded it up into a spreadsheet and.

Dan Martell (00:05:12) - Created this direct mail campaign where I convince people to send me, you know, fill out a form and send me some money in the mail, and I'll create a web page for bed and breakfast. Again, this is 98. And literally my dad came home one day with a stack of mail. I'm 18 years old and he goes, what did you do? And I said, what do you mean? He goes, why did all these people send you mail? And I was like, Holy crap. It worked. Like had no idea. And and I always joke with people, if you ever go public and make a dollar from anybody, that's not your relative, you know, family members. And that's when you've really gone pro, especially online. And now I failed because I didn't understand, like what it meant to compete in a market. Right? I made about $30,000 and, you know, pretty cool as a young person. But it wasn't enough to beat the guy that had at the cottage, you know? And within no time, he literally had a better product.

Dan Martell (00:06:00) - He took over the market and I couldn't compete. So, you know, at a young age, I just had to learn the side of the business that wasn't the doing of the work. I think most entrepreneurs get stuck in. I know how to do this thing. I know how to do social media. I know how to do. I know how to do logos. I know how to write code. But that's not the business. The business is. Well, how do I create demand for what I've got? How do I get people to buy what I've got? And how do I deliver on the promise that I've made? And then how do I operate this thing? So I'm tracking the numbers and I'm not getting trouble with the government, you know, from a tax point of view. And, you know, I've got a process for making sure everybody on my team is happy. That has nothing to do with actually delivering the thing that you're selling. And that's what I had to learn in that first company.

Dan Martell (00:06:42) - Okay.

Jasmine Star (00:06:43) - So at what point you had listed four factors, like at what point and what iteration of your business career? Did you realize all of those things, like having a product just isn't enough. It's getting people aware of it. It is closing those. It's making sure that you're doing things by the book, like at what business iteration or how many years into your business career did that click for you?

Dan Martell (00:07:01) - Well, it's you know, I always say different sizes, different problems. So I wish it would have clicked sooner. I would say first company taught me to think bigger, because what I didn't do is because I didn't think of a.com. I literally called it because I was Canadian. So it was maritime vacations, which meant that at the cottage just had a better brand and better position. He was going after a bigger market, right? I literally named it the small region that I grew up in, Atlantic Canada. So just that the big lesson I took there is think bigger, think most people should plan to win, not plan not to fail.

Dan Martell (00:07:34) - And that's a big idea. The second company was a web hosting company, and where I struggled there was is I was trying to sell commodity. Right. So web hosting is not there's no value added. It's not premium like it's literally the race to the bottom. It's like selling salt, right? Or cement like how do you compete against that. It's you know people aren't. But then then that was like okay, well I don't want to do that again. Lost about ten grand of my own money and had to rebuild. It was the third company that I finally hired a business coach. I read the book, the math. I read this certified coach or I hired this guy Bob. I found this guy who was certified, and Bob taught me the business size we talked about just now around generating demand, getting people to buy, you know, fulfilling and then obviously managing the business. I still wasn't great at it, although I got lucky because I understood I learn through trial and error how to build the marketing.

Dan Martell (00:08:26) - Right. And I'll be honest, I've never showed this publicly, Jasmine. But the way I think about it is whoever you sell to your customer, you got to ask yourself, how do those people become aware they have a problem, right? So like if you're selling social media services or logo services or PR or whatever it is you sell, you know, there's a point in that customer's light right in their office where they just decide, this is what I need. And if you can show up in their life when they have those moments, that's how you build a company. So on my third company, after two failed businesses, I'm talking to my coach, Bob, and he tells me this story of the mailman. And long story short, essentially this sales guy wanted to be number one. The guy in his company that was number one never came to the office. He finally convinced them because he was retiring. Like, teach me how you became number one. And he asked them to meet him in a warehouse in the industrial park in front of a warehouse.

Dan Martell (00:09:17) - And he said, sit in the car and watch. And he watched this seasoned sales guy just sit in his car, and they were parked in front of their competitors warehouse. And you see that track goes, yeah, he goes, we're going to follow it. And essentially what he taught the young person was, once the customer needs something, the truck gets ordered and it gets, you know, delivers the need for the potential customer. So all we got to do is figure out who's ordering what, when. And then we just got to call the customer two weeks prior to say, hey, you know, we compete against this company and we have a better solution. And that idea is simple as it might sound, caused me to change the whole way my business works. So the company, the third company built Spirit Technologies. We built enterprise portals for companies. What I realized because Bob challenged me, he goes, what does the customer do that would tell you they're ready for what you have? And it occurred to me that they would probably put a bunch.

Dan Martell (00:10:11) - To job postings to hire a certain roles in their company that would indicate that they were building this thing. And all I did was create six different fake resumes. Right now, this is, you know, it's a gray area. I don't think people should be that deceitful. But again, I'm 24 years old. When I started this company. And what I did is I created these six fake resumes for all the different roles that a company could hire, and I put them on all the job sites so that those recruiting companies would reach out to these people that were really me. Essentially, the phone numbers was all the same, and the emails routed to my email. And I knew when they called asking for Chris that they were looking for somebody to do X, and then I would start the conversation. So literally the call would go like, hey, yeah, I go, Dan speaking. They go, oh, I'm sorry, I'm looking for Chris. And I go, oh, are you looking for somebody? That's an enterprise portal architect.

Dan Martell (00:10:58) - And they go, yeah, they go, well, actually, Chris works with me. He's on vacation, but he forwarded his phone to my phone so I could take these calls. How can I help? And that's literally how I built the first 5 million in revenue in my business, was understanding what the customer did before they were ready to buy and insert myself into that process.

Jasmine Star (00:11:15) - Okay, so two big takeaways there. What you learned from your first business is to think bigger, to play, to win and not fail. And then you hired a coach. So around the time of your third business that you were at the time using trial and error marketing, and then ask yourself, what does your company does prior to what that person is actually needing to buy?

Dan Martell (00:11:34) - Yeah, essentially whatever the customer's pain is, what is true about their life. That tells me if I can insert myself into that process that they're ready to buy. So think about if you help people with fitness, the person may do is go buy clothes to get ready to go to the gym.

Dan Martell (00:11:50) - Right. So they're going to go buy fitness clothes. Well, if I could insert myself into that conversation at the retail store and I'm a personal trainer, then somehow I could ask people like, hey, do you have a trainer? And they would go like, no, I'm just starting to go to the gym. It's like, perfect. Well, this is what I do like. And I'm not saying that's an elegant way, but that's the principle of the philosophy. And every company has that. Every customer has a moment where they decide they need a solution to the problem. And then it's our job as business owners to figure out how do we creatively create something to insert ourselves into that process.

Jasmine Star (00:12:24) - And so, like obviously, I look through the prism of like content and like, how does that scale? So you had said, if I'm a fitness professional, like I'm a trainer and think that people are going to go buy clothes, then I would put myself in a place where they're buying clothes, but also at the same time would could be creating content online around workout clothes.

Jasmine Star (00:12:39) - That then positioned myself as a digital trainer in a different way. So same same but different.

Dan Martell (00:12:45) - So yeah, yeah, the content part is awesome because that doesn't require anything more like I could. Right? And that's what we did. We created a bunch of content around how to hire properly for the enterprise portal stuff we were doing, and that generated demand. But, you know, that's a difference between a content strategy and a partnership strategy. Me partnering with the retailer, especially if I'm like a local person and asking them if can drop off my business cards and they could recommend me to anybody that buys a certain types of gear, you know, or triathlon coach or whatever it is that's that concept that's a little different than the content.

Jasmine Star (00:13:15) - Yeah. So good. Okay, so speaking of triathlons, for those people who don't know, Dan does like an Ironman. Like when I was in SAS Academy, he would always be like posting like behind the scenes stories or trainings. And so he would be on coaching sessions like he himself has a coach or he himself has like mastermind meetings, and he's on his triathlon bike in the meeting itself.

Jasmine Star (00:13:35) - And so there's like a lot of discipline that was there. But I definitely saw being so close to you as a coach, and then paying to be part of your coaching program is the amount of discipline that it takes. And so what I hear is discipline on sitting on the proverbial competitors, you know, driveway or you putting yourself in situations of where somebody might need your services, not know that they need your services, but before they do, it's like that requires discipline. And there were times in your career like, at what point did you actually realize that a competitive advantage is your discipline? And for people who are not, they just don't really identify with being disciplined in an Ironman capacity, in a business capacity. But they want that. What are some preliminary things that you could say I flexes muscle in a business perspective. That is then help me in a personal perspective or vice versa.

Dan Martell (00:14:16) - Yeah. I mean, I really think that the everything that you desire, you think of like, you know, creating a vision board, writing out your goals, you know, having a list of projects, like anything you want to accomplish, it sits on the other side of your discipline, right? Because people think it's motivation, but your habits will pick up or your motivation falls apart.

Dan Martell (00:14:35) - And it's not about being motivated. Don't wake up every day and I'm motivated to do what I do. I wake up and I made a commitment to myself. So I execute and it starts to build a capacity to do that over time. So my favorite place to recommend people start looking at this is just your daily decisions, right? Everything from what you're going to eat. Are you going to work out most the gateway drug to, you know, success for me is always been the physical component of it, because it's one of those things that teaches you so many great lessons, right? Our self confidence is tied to keeping the commitments we make to ourselves in private. So when I make a commitment to myself, I'm going to go to the gym. Four times this week, or I'm going to wake up at 6 a.m., or I'm going to eat clean for the week and have one cheat meal on Saturday or Sunday, or whatever it is that starts to build a narrative to yourself, that you are somebody that says that does what they say they're going to do, so that confidence starts to build.

Dan Martell (00:15:28) - Going to the gym allows you to start building the muscle of delayed gratification, which is required to be successful. You know, anybody that starts a business and expects to be a millionaire in six months, unfortunately, they're going to be dramatically disappointed. And for many of them, they're going to give up because of it. And going to the gym and understanding. Remember what my buddy Marty wants? You said this to me. He goes, hey, man, I want to go to the gym with you, but I don't want to get too big. And I said, well, Marty, you can stop at any point that you think your arms are busting out of your shirt. And he laughed. And I go like, it's such a silly thing. But the idea of saying, I'm going to do something and show up until I get a result, that is such a beautiful skill to learn, typically through some level of fitness and exercise. And all of that translates back into our business because we don't get in our life what we want, we get what we think we deserve.

Dan Martell (00:16:16) - So to the degree that we start building and increasing our self-worth, we're going to start wanting and attracting and holding ourselves to a higher standard that will bring those results into our lives. And that's the biggest life lessons I've learned, is how do we raise our standards to attract more? How do we become more to attract more? Just because I wrote it down on a list or had a vision board around it, is not going to make it happen. It requires me to work on the internal to bring that into my life.

Jasmine Star (00:16:42) - Okay, so an extension of that, you have an Instagram post, and then you said that you talked about internal self-worth and getting up every day to do things that you don't necessarily want to do. So side note Dan is a big believer in doing things that you don't really want to do. And then you said, because of this, I have earned the right to demand amazing things in my life. And when I read that, like I loved it, but it was so foreign to me, like, I don't demand amazing things.

Jasmine Star (00:17:09) - I want them, I work for them. But how does one demand it? Like, let's get super granular and explain it to me like I'm five. I'm pretty disciplined. How do I demand it?

Dan Martell (00:17:17) - Think about it this way whatever you believe you deserve is what you're going to demand. Okay, so if you got on a scale tomorrow morning and the number you look down to read, you thought it should read X and it reads £20 heavier, you will immediately go, well, that's not me. I'm not that heavy. And the rest of the day, the week, the month, you're probably going to change your decisions. You're going to change the energy that you approach into your life. Right? You're not going to have, you know, a muffin for breakfast. You're probably going to eat something a little bit more high protein and clean, and you're going to keep that trend because you have a identity of what you believe you deserve around your weight. Same thing works for your business. See, most people believe like, I'm only worth $100,000 a year, right? And once you get close to that, they stop doing the things that would help them grow because they've gotten to the upper level of what they believe they're worth.

Dan Martell (00:18:11) - What I would encourage people to do is every time you get to a new high, convince yourself to make it the new low, right? And it's a skill set like anything else. But any time I get to a new high in my life, new goal, new aspiration, same thing with Ironman, then I'm doing ultras. Now I'm doing long distance swimming like there's no lack of another mountain to climb. But you got to convince yourself that you're worth more. So if you're at 100 grand a year right now, I want you to tell yourself, no, I'm not 100 grand a year. I'm 300 grand a year. I'm worth more and show up as if your revenue just dropped to 50% of what you're at. And if you started acting in regards to like, I'm worth 300 like you do, if you lost 50,000 and you're only making 50, that energy, that drive, that focus, that determination, if you bring that to the 300 number, that's how you create that in your life.

Dan Martell (00:19:04) - So it's, you know, people don't get they get their standards. And you got to ask yourself what standards, what habits am I willing to adhere to to generate what I think I'm worth? Most people just don't think they're worth a whole lot.

Jasmine Star (00:19:16) - Okay, so somebody's listening right now and they're like, yeah, I want to tell myself I'm worth 300,000. And it feels fake. Like it feels unbelievable to the person who wants to say that but doesn't believe it. There's misalignment. What do you say to that person?

Dan Martell (00:19:30) - I'd say keep saying it until you find the answers to prove it right. So think about that. You know, like, remember the first time I made my first million income? Right? Then I set a goal to make 5 million income. I'm talking like after taxes, like personal income, mean that gap from a million, which is crazy. I grew up in like, nothing. Right. So making a million was hitting the lottery. And I had done that many times over.

Dan Martell (00:19:55) - But I could have easily just set up camp and lived off that right. Like, that's a great life. But I was like, no, I believe I'm worth more, right? So it doesn't matter if it's 1 million to 5 or 100 to 300,000. What I had to keep doing is tell myself, this year I'm doing five and I deserve. Or five, and I'm willing to show up to create five. I'm willing to do what it takes to do five and then ask myself, what would the person that's doing five? How would they show up? Well, you know, they would do this. They would write down, and that's where the standards come in. It's like, what are you willing to do every day that if you trusted that you just showed up that way every day, that you would get that outcome. Now there's other things you'd probably come to realize. You might say, well, I don't know anybody that's doing 5 million a year in personal income, so I should probably get around those people to kind of feed off their energy.

Dan Martell (00:20:40) - And, you know, like, I probably haven't read a book around how to do that. So I should probably try to find some books and biographies of people that have done it. And then, you know what? I should probably get some mentors, some coaches or whatever. I mean, it's very similar to how we met. When people demand that an outcome happens, then they look for solutions, right? When people don't. And you should tell people about it. That's another one. I think, Jasmine, that most people don't do is they don't claim their shot because they're worried that somebody is going to see them stumble or not achieve it. When I decided to do my first half Ironman, or even like smaller races, like a sprint triathlon, I told everybody as soon as I made the commitment, 45 days, I couldn't even swim. I'm doing a sprint triathlon. Every person I talk to for the next 2 or 3 weeks, I would tell them they go, what's new? Just sign up for a sprint triathlon.

Dan Martell (00:21:28) - Whoa! That's crazy. Do you even know how to swim? Nope. How are you going to figure that out? I don't know, I'm going to go to the pool tonight. And like when you start calling your shot, most people are too humble. They don't want to brag. But Jasmine, you know, like we as a peer, when we get together, we're sharing this is working. This is working. Here's where I'm at. This is where I'm going. And there are many times the reason why we do that is because we want the public peer pressure. We want to be held accountable to our goals, and that is required if you truly want to step into your power.

Jasmine Star (00:21:56) - Okay, so if I were to push back a little bit and yeah, I want to exhaust, I want to have like an exorcism of doubt and want to push back on this theory. Right. So you get $1 million income and you say next year I'm doing five. And then you lay out the behaviors and the action.

Jasmine Star (00:22:11) - One must take to embody acting and behaving and demanding that a five and 1 or 2 years later, you're not the five yet, so you don't have success clues and you don't have proof. How then, do you continue to show up and make those investments, believing that it will happen, even if your present has shown otherwise?

Dan Martell (00:22:29) - Yeah. I mean, the truth is, is the big goals like that rarely ever come true in the timeline you give it.

Jasmine Star (00:22:35) - Amen. That's right.

Dan Martell (00:22:36) - And one of my mentors says it best. He says be impatient with action, but patient with results. So what he's saying is go after the big vision, give yourself some time, but don't allow yourself to drag your feet. See, I'd rather aim for something that's big, hairy, audacious, like 5 million in the next 12 months. And it might take me three years. But what I am going to look at is, did I go from 1 to 2 or 1 to 1.5? Do I have forward momentum? And if not, I got to go back to my strategy and find a different strategy.

Dan Martell (00:23:06) - But the desire of holding myself to the standard or to the belief that I can do that, that's unwavering, right? I always tell people that to the degree you have 100% clarity and 100% belief in that clarity of vision, what you want to create, and 100% of the time throughout your day, those three things is what's going to allow you to create a manifest, right? Do you have clarity? Do you have belief in that clarity? And do you hold that belief 100% of the time? Now? Nobody's perfect. Neither am I. But that's what we strive for. And that will create a feedback loop for us to say, are we on pace or are we off track?

Jasmine Star (00:23:38) - Okay. So good. So as an extension of that, we're talking about standards. We're talking about being impatient with our effort and patient with the outcome, which I absolutely love. I will absolutely embody that. And then even if we're not getting 5 million in the year that we had said we would, we're seeing some sort of upward momentum.

Jasmine Star (00:23:55) - And we talked about this conversation where you see people get stuck the 300,000 range because they don't know how to delegate the 3 million range is because we haven't managed a way to do work through people. And so I'm wondering if we might extend the conversation from standards to working with people. I'm going to say a different Instagram post that I loved, and I was like, okay, want to ask more questions about this? So you mentioned that you have a standards document that you share with your team, and in the standards document, you expect your employees to present you with a one, three, one when they are feeling stuck. I want you to tell me more about the standards document and what the 131 is, and I want to speak to it in two days, because when I saw that Instagram post, you were talking about the one through one where an employee comes to you. But let's go back to that. Also, the entrepreneur who's in that 300,000 range, who doesn't necessarily have an employee but wants demanded of themselves, or perhaps like a contractor or a VA.

Dan Martell (00:24:40) - Yeah. I mean, it's such a great question, Jasmine. The standards document for me, I call it working with Dan and it's this document over the years that I've kept appending to and think about it this way, is like when I interact with team members, contractors, etcetera, where have I been frustrated with whatever level of interaction, communication, lack of or performance that they've ever had? And what if I could frontload every new relationship with kind of like the best practices to working with that's. With this document has become and it's like five pages at this point because I just kept adding to it and tweaking it. So it has everything about like my leadership style, my communication style, my expectations, how I like people to present information, etcetera. And I'll tell you, it might sound like some people like, wow, you're so rigid. It is the most powerful document for me to go from zero to having an incredible working relationship with any person, and I share it with all vendors, agencies, new hires across my organization if they don't report to me and even business partners.

Dan Martell (00:25:41) - Right? Because I just say, look, this is who I am, this is how I work my best. If you could adhere to certain things, these processes, that would be amazing. If not, I'll correct people or I'll bring them up to speed. But at least that's the the baseline. And that thing is probably one of the most powerful documents that has allowed me to lead other people. Now in there, I talk about the 131 rule and the 131 rule. And it doesn't matter if you have employees or not. Essentially, what you want to teach people is how to solve problems on your behalf. So what happens oftentimes, why it's called a bottleneck is the ability to move forward is blocked at the top right. And the top is always the entrepreneur. It's the it's the individual. It's the business owner. That's why they call it a bottleneck. It's at the top. And what I like to do is I like to push decisions down to other people. Okay. Now if I don't have any other employees, I'm doing it myself.

Dan Martell (00:26:30) - The 131 rule is still a good process to follow, and most entrepreneurs are actually doing it subconsciously. They just don't know it. But the idea is this anytime I face the problem, okay, if I'm dealing with am I personally or somebody comes to me with a problem, I first ask myself, what problem am I trying to solve? Because that question right there, most people don't even know the answer to that. They just have a problem in the business. They would like the problem to go away, but they don't actually know what problem in the business caused that situation. So when people come to me and they're like, hey, this happened, I go, cool, what problem are you trying to solve? They go, well, we need to solve our client happiness. Perfect. How are you going to measure that? Right? So I always try to ask them, like, what's the measurement point that tells you customers happy? Well I don't know. Don't think we measure it right now.

Dan Martell (00:27:11) - We should probably start with that. So I call it baseline. Then if they have that then I go, what are your three options that you've researched that you've tried to figure out how to improve that scenario. And that's where I'm listening for the creative ideation. Right. And most people come to you sometimes they're like, well, we just got to do this. And it's like, I know we could do that. I love that creativity. But what are the other options you've considered? And they're like, well, haven't. And I go, well, when could you find some time to kind of do some more research and come back to me with some other options? They're like, well, give me a day. Perfect. So then they come back the next day, they're going to have those three different options, right. And then what I always ask people is to come with one recommendation out of those three. So if let's say a customer is unhappy and they want to cancel or they want to quit or they don't want to use you anymore, and something's like, we have a problem with the customer, go, okay, what are your three options? They're like, well, I think we should refund them.

Dan Martell (00:27:58) - That's one option. Okay. Like that. What else? Well, think we should have this person get on a call with them and do an exit interview to figure out how we could have, you know, better, met their needs. Okay. Like that was the third one. Well, I think we should look at the client journey process and insert, you know, some feedback point where we could get feedback to know if we're on track or not. So we don't get to a place where the customer just wants to cancel. Oh, that's interesting. Out of those three, which one do you want to do? I'm probably recommending three because that'll solve future problems. The first two are only going to solve the current thing, but I think the problem is more systemic and go, awesome. I like 390% of the time I'm just going to whatever they choose. I'm probably going to agree with them. And what happens is I'm in that moment. I'm going to allow them to think through the pros and cons.

Dan Martell (00:28:45) - See, there's no lack of good idea. Like anybody can look at a problem and say, here's how we can fix it. It's how do we look at the problem where we're at as a business and also say, this is the right action for the time and size of our business, right. Because we can't boil the ocean, we got to be very selective. So it's like, okay, does this problem solve future problems? Yes or no? So I'm teaching them how to think and what happens over time, Jasmine, is they just stop coming to us with small things because they know we're going to ask them for the one, three, one, which empowers your team to actually move the business forward without you being involved.

Jasmine Star (00:29:17) - That is incredible. It's one thing that I really, really wanted to hone in on and think it's going to be highly valuable, and also just applying it to ourselves. Think that oftentimes, like something will come up for me, I'm like, okay, this is how we'll solve it.

Jasmine Star (00:29:29) - But I think challenge myself to come up with three options of how to solve it, think will open me up to like a very clear course of action thereafter. Okay, so when we look at these things and we look at building teams and we look at like scaling beyond ourselves, sometimes as we grow our teams, things happen the way that we hope and then they don't. So what are some of the like the dialogue? Like you're one of the persons who I've seen very, very strongly share their morning routine, the discipline that it takes to go to bed early, wake up early, really have a focus with you and your sons and your wife and like what it is you do. But what's like the dialogue or that mindset that shifted you to allow you to pursue like these goals, even if in that moment it looks like there's odds against you? Yeah.

Dan Martell (00:30:09) - I mean, the thing that I've come to realize. Over the years. Jasmine, that definitely kind of powers everything below the surface is this.

Dan Martell (00:30:16) - I truly believe that every person on earth, including myself, and it came with a personal realization. And then it's what I try to teach as many people that are willing to listen is that we are here to become the 10.0 version of ourselves, right? So if you believe in the faith, the higher power, like you were created in that person's image, in God's image. So our goal in our lifetime is to keep becoming better. And essentially the way I like to say it, and I've heard this said differently, but it's become the person you needed most in your darkest days, right? That is literally what I think every human on earth, their journey, their process is to become business is a great tool for that. You know, volunteering like it doesn't matter how you get there. But I think every person specifically myself, is here to become the best version of myself in that process. Also, as you have some success, you don't have to wait till you're crazy successful. Share that success, pass with other like that is like in your other can be your kids.

Dan Martell (00:31:14) - It can be your family. It could be your community. It could be your team. It could be the internet, just like we're doing right now. But I really believe that's why, like when you skip to the end and it doesn't matter if somebody's a billionaire or somebody you know, worked as a teacher in a school their whole lives. But when they're taking their last breath and you ask them, like, what did you wish you did more of? It's usually spend time with people, help other people give back a feeling that their life meant something. So even though I may not feel like doing something, I always have to go back to those things. Who did I need most in my darkest days? That's my inner energy fuel source, and then my sharing that with other people. Because in that process, whatever you want, you will get more of by helping other people get it. If you want to be richer, help other people get rich. If you want to be healthier, help other people get healthier.

Dan Martell (00:32:03) - If you want a great marriage, help other people have a better relationship with their spouse. It literally is that simple. We only get back what we put out. It's called the law of compensation, right? So yeah, patient says that the more we give, the more will get right. And most people don't give enough, but they expect so much because they're making about themselves. So my whole thing is become more, have more to give and then give as much as I can in different formats to the people I care most about. And that's what drives me to take action, even when I don't feel like it, even when I'm sick, even when it's late. It doesn't matter. Like I'm not here to, I want to when I take my last breath. Jasmine, I want to feel like I let it all out on the field. And the cool part is, for a long time now, if that was today, you know, a great question I like to ask myself is today a good day to die? A lot of people don't want to ask themselves that question because they may not like the answer.

Dan Martell (00:32:53) - But if you start asking yourself that question and working through the things that come up, you'll get to a place where you are living that day to day.

Jasmine Star (00:33:00) - So I want to shift gears a tiny bit, but building on what we have started off with, we started talking about being disciplined with the decisions we're making, acting as if our reality is in the present. And who do we need to become and making investments in ourselves to give back in the future, and then finding a way to work through others and using standards. Doc one three, one and then finding out how to keep a positive mindset through all of these things. And asking yourself, is today good day to day? And this is powerful for us as individuals, specifically as business owners. But I want you to now look at this conversation from the scope of an angel investor or an investor. As you're looking at businesses you want to invest in, there's listeners right now who are just like, I just wish I had an investor. What qualities are you looking for? Yes, in a business, but also in a founder that makes you think, okay, this is a good bet for me.

Jasmine Star (00:33:49) - Do they embody these qualities? Do they not? And this is where you can also leverage not just like financial investment but personal investment. Like when you're looking at making an investment, how much are you looking at the person in the mindset of that entrepreneur?

Dan Martell (00:34:00) - Yeah, I mean, the truth is, Jasmine, I've invested now. I think I say publicly 50, but it's probably over 100 at this point. I'm always investing in the person because the person's the only constant if this thing wins or doesn't, that's the only constant in the business. The amount of times I've invested in the business model, the product has changed or pivoted. They call it is literally 90%. So I do look at the product to understand did the individual understand the customer and the market and could they build something for sure? Is there a real thing there? But other than that, I look at a few things. One is, do I feel like this is a person that I could learn from? Like when I talk to them about the market or the domain or the area of business that they're working on? Do they teach me things about that? Right.

Dan Martell (00:34:45) - Because that tells me like, yeah, so will I learn from this individual? Two is is this something that I personally have a pain in that I want to get involved. There's no lack of products looking for investment. I always try to ask myself, can I add value? And is it aligned with a problem that I felt? Because honestly, like I say no very quickly to many entrepreneurs when they present me solutions to problems. I've never had. I don't understand it. I don't understand the market. And that's totally fine. There's investors out there. They'll do it. So the number two, do I have the problem. And then the third one is, you know, are they coachable. Right. Do they have drive. Because what I've found across all the companies I've invested in. Right. And I've got a big portfolio and I've seen people win, you know, $4 billion companies and I've seen a ton of them, you know, completely crash and burn. And typically it's their grit.

Dan Martell (00:35:37) - It's their resourcefulness. It's their drive. It's deciding when every other person said no to them that they were able to keep that truth, that vision, that belief alive. And that's something you got to test. Typically, I'll ask people, but what's the hardest thing you've ever gone through in your life, and how did that shape you? That'll give me some insight. But those are the three things. Like I look at the person and say, well, I learned from them. Do I have the problem and can add value? And the third, do they have the grit, the determination, the drive around this problem? Or are they just doing it because it's better than going to university or it's better than working in another company? All that being said, the best way to get investment from an investor is to ask them for advice. See, most people ask for money and they'll get advice, but when they ask for advice, they'll get money twice. And that's actually a pit bull lyric that love to quote.

Jasmine Star (00:36:26) - But the great philosopher pit bull. Yeah.

Dan Martell (00:36:31) - Yeah, Einstein and pit bull.

Jasmine Star (00:36:34) - This is incredible because I think more than anything, I want somebody who's listening, who's going through a very hard time, and somebody who feels like their back is pinned up against the wall. And for somebody who says, looking around and you feel very alone, you're not going to get help until you've proven to yourself first that you have the grittiness and the wherewithal to push through. It is on the proof of that that an investor can look at you and say, are you coachable? Do you have what it takes to get up again? Because that's what's going to be required in business. I'm going to repeat back to three things is can I learn from this person? Number two, is it aligned with the problem that I have felt and that I can contribute to? And three, is this person coachable? And so as we go through this rubric, I know there's a business owner who's feeling super excited now to being like, okay, I can do this.

Jasmine Star (00:37:14) - But there was something that I read on your website and when your book dropped a couple months ago, I was a part of the live Like book event that you did, which was an honor. Thank you so much. It was freaking amazing. Thank you. There was something that I like popped out, and you said I was stuck in a rut where I was stressed out, working 100 hours a week and operating on 3 to 4 hours of sleep per night. End quote. Okay, somebody listening to that and being like, wow, what Dan just said is true. And then what Dan just said is true. How do you get out of that route when someone just like my back's against the wall, I can only sleep through hours, like, how do you get out of that point?

Dan Martell (00:37:46) - Yeah, it is a dichotomy because and that's why, like everything I write about, everything I teach is from personal experience. And, you know, I was that overworked, entrepreneur, overweight, failed relationship, literally engaged.

Dan Martell (00:37:59) - She walked away seven weeks before her wedding day. I mean, just horrendous. What I would recommend is usually there's two things that I usually discover when I get entrepreneurs that reach out to me at this stage. One is they're trying to do too many things, and that's just the reality. If they have a business, they're selling to the whole United States instead of picking a state. If they got customers, they got 14 different types of customers they serve, you know, because and I get it. It's like I just want any success. So they keep saying yes to things that aren't aligned with a specific, you know, solution or a product. So number one is usually like look at what they're doing and say, hey, you're doing too many things. And I mean, Jasmine, oftentimes I see like they've got a primary business and then they have a side hustle and they're like, I'm overworked. It's like, yeah, well, you don't even make enough money in your primary business to give yourself a decent salary, and you're trying to dilute your retention doing the side thing.

Dan Martell (00:38:46) - So number one is audit you where your calendar and your time goes, and give yourself permission to say no so that you can say yes. Because most people don't realize when they say yes, they're saying no to something. And when they say no to something, they're saying yes to something. It's just unconscious. So that's number one is do less. And then of the stuff you're doing then look for leverage. And that's what I talk about in my book. There's only four ways that somebody can get more leverage right. I call them the four C's. It's through capital right. Takes money to make money. So with capital we can get more leverage. It's code right? Software automation systems, processes, SOPs. That's AI is code. The other one is content. Right. So like creating a training video so that you never have to train somebody again or creating a process or an SOP so that somebody could follow the checklist. And you never have to be involved in that step. Content is a huge form of leverage.

Dan Martell (00:39:39) - And then the fourth is collaboration, right? And some people that say, well, I don't have money to hire people to collaborate. Well, when I started off, I had interns, you know, and I didn't pay them a whole lot. I mean, I don't even know if I paid the minimum wage. Actually, I do remember the government subsidized those interns. Right? So, like, I don't care if you ask a friend for help, you get your kids to help out. But I think, again, it's a skill set. We need to get good at asking for help and getting other people to support us and learning how to play well. You can even hire an agency on deferred fees you can do successfully. You can say, hey, if you come in and help me do this. And in the future when we get to this point, I will pay you double what your current rate is, right? But that is usually the answer. It's how do I reduce the amount of complexity in what I'm doing, create the space, and then buy back my time through other people? And then this is a kicker is reinvest that time you get back in growing the business, marketing and sales.

Dan Martell (00:40:33) - Most businesses that are struggling and they're working 100 hours a week is because they don't have a repeatable process for generating leads, and they don't have a process that's predictable for selling those people into their business.

Jasmine Star (00:40:44) - We mean, Dan, you.

Jasmine Star (00:40:45) - Coming out spitting fire do less because too many people are trying to do too many things at once. Since you're going to audit your time, which gives you the permission to say no. Because when you say no to something, now you're saying yes to something. In the future, you're going to look for ways to find leverage, like how do you get more time through capital code, content or collaboration, and then you're going to reinvest that time into growing the business. That right there is a banger. And I hope that people who are listening truly understand the gift that Dan is generously sharing on his own time and energy in a ton of experience. If you have found this conversation enlightening, empowering, please do me a favor and connect with Dan. Dan, what are the best ways for people to connect with you?

Dan Martell (00:41:29) - Yeah, I mean, obviously if you guys are inspired by the content, go check out my book, Buy Back Your Time.

Dan Martell (00:41:34) - It's available on Amazon, audible, Kindle, all that fun stuff I usually get people. Jasmine is, you know, reaching out, asking me about how I work with my assistant. So if anybody wants to get a direct link to my internal SOP. So literally my standard operating procedure, which is my admin document, it's like 27 pages long. Just follow me on Instagram, send me a message with just E! So I know it's executive assistant, and then I'll have somebody on my team reply with the direct link to the Google Doc. There's no opt in, there's no nothing. I'd love to do that for people. And then I'm Dan Martell and all social channels, YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Twitter, etcetera. Two L's of Martell. It would be an honor to serve your audience. Think. You know, I wake up every day to try to become the best version of myself and share that with the world at the highest level I can, and it's always a pleasure when I get to share that with another audience.

Jasmine Star (00:42:19) - Dan, have one last question. Is today a good day to die?

Dan Martell (00:42:22) - It is. This is what's fun for me, Jasmine is I don't wish it is. But if it was I. I've played fallout. There's zero regrets. I didn't always have that. But it's the regret minimization strategy that I've been working on for years. Literally probably 15 years. And think just asking ourselves that question every day, just get things in order, show up a little stronger, hug a little harder, love a little longer. I mean, to me that's just a beautiful way to to reset our days.

Jasmine Star (00:42:49) - Thank you Dan, may we all stay the same I appreciate you, thank you. Cheers.