Jasmine Star 00:00:00  Welcome to the Jasmine Star Show, a place that we get to talk about business mindset and today dreaming bucket lists, lists of Melissa's. We're adding just a bunch of S's because that's how we roll. And we're also talking about the business of dreaming. I could not be more excited and honored to welcome Ben Linton. Thank you so much for being here on the show today.

Ben Nemtin 00:00:19  Jasmine. Good to be here.

Jasmine Star 00:00:19  Good to be here. Okay, so I have to start here because it's actually very unlikely. Normally I start the podcast. I always ask my guests, how is this a win for you? So you're coming out on your own time, your own energy. You're taking time out of your day around loved ones, your business to come here. And I asked you, how do I make this a win? And this is the first time anybody has told me, let's have fun. Like you're you're saying if we have fun, then today is a win. So thank you for that. And I want to know why is fun so high on your barometer?

Ben Nemtin 00:00:47  I think it's just because that's my metric for winning in life is just how much fun I'm having.

Ben Nemtin 00:00:53  You know, whether it's in work or it's with my partner or whether it's friends, I just my parents have always loved life so much and had so much fun, and I just think that we get the fun beaten out of us as we get older, you know? And when we're young, that's all we do. But then we feel like we shouldn't be doing it as much, or we get embarrassed, or we worry about what other people think or we think. It's not professional. And I've just lived my whole life trying to enjoy and have as much fun as I can. And and it's led to some of the greatest, more success in business. And I could ever imagine. I realized that people want to work with people they like. At the end of the day, I think in the beginning of your career, you it's it's about your accolades, it's about your experience. But as you get older, people just want to be around people that they like. They want to be around people that give them good energy.

Ben Nemtin 00:01:45  They want to be around. I mean, you talk about surrounding yourself with people that inspire you, but I think it's an energy that you get from people that ultimately just lifts your spirits enough that you just enjoy your day more. So for for me, it's just I want to enjoy every day. You know, I just I had an experience recently where and this just happened where my dad just had a stroke and he thank you and he's okay. And he he will be okay and he will have a full recovery. But it happened in a moment and it just happened on Friday. And it reminded me how quickly.

Jasmine Star 00:02:24  Like Friday five days ago. Yeah. Oh my god.

Ben Nemtin 00:02:26  Yeah. And it reminded me how quickly things can change, how easy it is to take things for granted and really what's important, which is, you know, relationships with loved ones and not letting the days just zip by and whip by because you're too busy, you know, and forgetting about what's important. So I think, like, what else do we have been enjoying our time that we have because that's our most precious commodity is is our time.

Ben Nemtin 00:02:58  So, you know, that was a really powerful reminder for me.

Jasmine Star 00:03:04  I'm gonna put a pin in that and then loop back to that, because I like to have disparate points. And then at the end, I know it's a great episode when we are able to bring them all together. So before we start there, we're going to get into what is made you so successful and why. You said when I was having the most fun, that's when I found the greatest amount of success. And there's a really unique story behind that. But you and I are in an elevator, we're going down four floors and I'm like, oh, what do you do? What do you tell me?

Ben Nemtin 00:03:26  It's it's they're big floors. So I have some time because my story is quite long, but I'm going to try and tell it in a short manner because it's kind of important to understand the context for my story, because I never expected to be here. I never expect to be doing the things that I was doing.

Ben Nemtin 00:03:43  I was studying kinesiology in school, which is like physiology. I grew up in Victoria, BC, which is an island on on an island in Canada by Vancouver. And I played a lot of sports, I really was trying to actually, I just achieved one of my biggest dreams, which was I was going to the World Cup. I was playing for the under 19 national rugby team and on the west coast of Canada. That's a huge deal. It's like it's like football in the South. Okay, this is where the national team trained. Rugby is a big sport in Canada. I always say it's like the third biggest sport behind hockey and hockey.

Ben Nemtin 00:04:15  So it's like.

Ben Nemtin 00:04:16  And I just always wanted to succeed. I put a lot of pressure on myself to succeed. So I had an academic scholarship to a great school. I was on the national rugby team and I was training for the World Cup. Three months earlier. I had missed a game winning kick in our championship game in high school, and that pressure that I felt to not mess up again at the World Cup, you know, don't blow this opportunity.

Ben Nemtin 00:04:41  I'd think about it. At night, I started losing sleep. I started to pause.

Jasmine Star 00:04:44  There for a second. Yeah. There's one thing that you'd said is like, don't blow this opportunity. Yeah. And so I want to highlight that because there are some things that hit me very clearly, and I just wanted to pause there because somebody right now is watching or listening and they're feeling that same emotion like, don't mess this up now. And for them, it might not be a game winning kick. It could be another business, it could be a different relationship, it could be a conversation. And so I want to actually go through your arc, but I want them to put themselves in it. So there's this time where you are now going to the national championships and you're telling yourself, don't blow this opportunity. Take it there.

Ben Nemtin 00:05:17  At that time in my life, I didn't. It was my whole world, right? I didn't have the life experience to understand the long game. Right? I thought it was a sprint, not a marathon.

Ben Nemtin 00:05:29  Now I understand that it's the opposite, right? Like it every moment is a is an opportunity for growth. And it's an opportunity to learn. And it's not the end all be all. So in that moment when I was 19 years old, this was my entire world. That's why I put so much pressure on myself. I didn't have the life experience to understand that there was more to come. And so that meant I put so much pressure on myself, and that meant that it meant everything to me. I was overindex, I was overweighting that part of my life, and it was really becoming my identity. And what I would realize later is that I was actually living the dream. But it wasn't my dream. I was living this life that I thought I should live, because it's what I thought was what it meant to be successful. But really, I wasn't listening to my true authentic self. So at that time, I didn't know that I didn't have the experience. So I started losing sleep.

Ben Nemtin 00:06:25  I started to get anxiety, and I started to get depressed because of this pressure, because of losing sleep, because this meant so much to me and I was so much in my head. And so everything kind of started to slowly go downhill. And this depression stopped me from going to school. And this depression stopped me from going to rugby practice because I was so anxious. I'd miss one practice, and I didn't know how to explain why I missed that practice. And then I left and I'd missed two, and it was a downward spiral. Before I knew it, I couldn't leave my house. I was stuck in my room. So I went from national rugby team, academic scholarship, bunch of friends to not being able to go for a 15 minute walk. And I had dropped out of school and I'd lost my scholarship. And ultimately my friends, thank God, kind of rallied and pulled me out of the house to come live with them in a new town for the summer. And only then, as I started to sort of push myself out of this self-contained bubble, I started to get a bit of confidence.

Ben Nemtin 00:07:24  Because I got a job. I started to talk about what I was going through, realize I wasn't alone because my friends had experienced something similar. I started to really meet new kids that were different, and they were inspiring, and they had built businesses or they had traveled around the world. I realized that they gave me energy, and some people drained energy from me, and I realized I needed to be around people that gave me energy. So I came back from that summer way. I was starting to feel back to myself, and I realized it's necessary for me to surround myself with people that inspire me. There was only one kid that I knew that was inspiring, and I didn't even know him very well. In fact, I didn't know him at all. He was a friend of my sister, and I had met him as an acquaintance, but he was a filmmaker, and I had always secretly wanted to make a movie. And so I just called him up out of the blue. And I said, you make movies, I want to make a movie, let's make a movie.

Ben Nemtin 00:08:13  And he said, I was just talking to my friend Dave about something exactly like this. And I said, okay, great, I'll call your older brother and let's all get together. Let's talk about making this film. So the four of us who weren't really friends came together and decided to make a documentary about something, anything we didn't even know. But at that time, one of my friends got assigned a poem in English class called The Buried Life. And the Buried Life was 175 year old poem that talked about how the day to day buries what we really want to do, and we have these moments in our life when we're inspired to go after that thing. But then life gets in the way and we're like, that's how we feel. This guy wrote this poem 175 years ago, and he's talking about the exact same feeling that we're feeling. We haven't done any of the things we actually have wanted to do. Why we talk about it, we never do them. So we said, let's make a list of all of our buried dreams, and then we'll just go out and we'll just try and accomplish as many of them as possible.

Ben Nemtin 00:09:09  And every time we cross something off our list, let's help a stranger we meet cross something off their bucket list. So we'll ask strangers this question what do you want to do before you die? And if we can help them, then we will. So we'll take a two week road trip. We'll tackle our bucket list, will help other people, will make a little movie. We'll show our friends, go back to school. This is back in 2006. So we beg, borrow and steal to get this.

Ben Nemtin 00:09:36  Yeah, yeah.

Jasmine Star 00:09:37  Okay. What I heard you say through a beautiful storytelling, but my mind works clearly in frameworks because there's somebody who hears this and says like, well, that's great that a 19 year old kid is having an identity crisis. But I was 22, 23 years old when I had my first bout with depression. I was at UCLA law school. And for those people who are watching on YouTube, I am in a different studio today. I'm in LA, I'm in Hollywood.

Jasmine Star 00:09:59  So it feels like very much like a full circle moment. And I'm going to repeat back the framework that I heard through the story. When people are feeling in a bad spot and you want to work yourself out through it, and unbeknownst to me, this was actually happening, but I only actually distilled it through what you had just said. Number one, surround yourself with inspiring people. Number two, it requires an act of courage or creativity. Because I think in your case, you had to make the courageous decision to do something that really didn't make sense. It's like I'm going to go and do something I've never done before. Number three, you had an action items for you. It was literally a bucket list. And we're going to help other people do it. But for somebody who's getting off the couch, it is to take a 15 minute walk. It is to send your resume, it's have a list of action items and then have a clearly defined result. You had said, we are going to make a movie and then we're going back to school.

Jasmine Star 00:10:42  So for all intents and purposes, when you're struggling, you went through these four steps. If you have ever encountered depression throughout the rest of your life, and I'm sure we're going to get to that story, do you think that you take these same steps?

Ben Nemtin 00:10:54  Yeah. And I think the one that I would add is talk about it. Right. So I talked about it with my friends. And then I found a therapist and I started to share. So and so what that did was allowed me to process these things that I was going through, learn about myself. I think a lot of times, especially in my life, when I go through a depression, I've gone through two other fairly major depressions, not the depth of the first one, because through the first process I learned about myself. I started to understand who I was, what I needed. I started to be able to see the signs earlier. So you can kind of avoid the crash before it happens. I had a support system.

Ben Nemtin 00:11:29  I found a therapist, but each time the other consistent thing that I've noticed is that when I go through a hard time, it's because a major part of my life is not in alignment with.

Ben Nemtin 00:11:40  Who I am.

Ben Nemtin 00:11:42  right. So when I told you I was living the dream. But I wasn't living my dream, I didn't know who I was or what I wanted at that time in my life. And my bucket list was the first time that I had written down or even thought about or declared the things that I wanted. It was a list of the things that gave me energy that I was excited about. So instead of thinking I was feeling, I was following feelings. What ignites my soul? What are the things that give me energy? What are the things that make me feel more alive? What are the things that would just be fun to do? And with a group of people who also felt that way, who inspired me to think big, who created accountability so that I didn't not do those things because when I didn't feel like I could do it, they were like, we can do it.

Ben Nemtin 00:12:29  And so the other moments in my life when I felt these bouts of depression, it was when a relationship wasn't right. It was an authentic. I started a production company that I told you with these same guys, and for three years we built it and we finally got investment and everything was happening. I was like, I hate this. Like, I don't like the work I do every day. So a huge part of my life was inauthentic. I was doing a job ten hours a day that I actually didn't love, even though I thought this was the logical thing for me to do because we had made a TV show. Next thing was like, well, start a production company.

Jasmine Star 00:13:07  So. So you know that I do dig in, right? So if I bring somebody in, I have been watching you from a distance for a while. I am connecting disparate dots and I am saying, this person is going to add so much value to people who are listening and watching. However, we just jumped from, we're going to make a video, and then we're going to just share it and go back to school and life is here.

Jasmine Star 00:13:26  And then made a big jump to like the business that was a result of a passion project. And I can't tell you how many people are listening right now. And they're in the process of the passion project and they're like, if I could just make it a business. And then what you said was we just didn't make it a business. We made it a wildly successful business that got picked up on MTV is one of the highest rated MTV shows, period. And you get to this point and then you say, oh, I'm here again. Yeah.

Ben Nemtin 00:13:50  So as I said in the beginning, it's a long story.

Ben Nemtin 00:13:53  No, this is great.

Ben Nemtin 00:13:54  So basically what I'll do is I'll fill in the dots and you jump in, okay. And at any point, okay. So we decided in that first, very first tour before the TV show, the book before we move to LA, before any of the list items have been crossed off, that we were just going to go and just try and do as many of these wild dreams as possible in two weeks, and then help other people.

Ben Nemtin 00:14:17  That was it. Two week road trip. We hit the road. We literally just scraped this tour together. We bought an RV, we got a camera on eBay. We throw parties in Victoria to raise money so we could pay for gas. We have no money. We work two jobs. I was working as a beer rep at the time. I was cold calling companies, pretending we had a production company so that we could get sponsors for this film, that we hadn't made, the production company that we didn't have, so that we could actually just raise $7,000 through four people by working a job, by getting sponsors, in-kind sponsorship to make this happen. We hit the road. Okay. What we didn't expect is that people would hear about this road trip and they would want to help. So strangers saw us on the news. By the way, this is Pre-social media 2006. So this is like before influencers, before things went viral, Facebook was still in schools. Twitter just started YouTube just getting going.

Ben Nemtin 00:15:15  So this was traditional. We would drive up to radio stations, park there, and we wouldn't leave until they put us on the air. We said, we're in your town. We're trying to cross off this list item. We also want to help you send us your dreams. So people started to hear about it and they would say, I saw on your list, number eight is rideable. I can help you get on a bull. I saw on your list. Make a toast at a stranger's wedding. My buddies getting married. I'm the best man I can get you in. And all this support. Then people would send us their dreams. I've always dreamed of sing a duet with Beyonce. Always dreamed of flying a fighter jet. Always dreamed of hiking Machu Picchu. So we did not expect this response. We were overwhelmed. It was national news around the world. All these people. So we come back from that two week road trip. We're like, oh my God, we have to keep doing this.

Ben Nemtin 00:16:04  Go back to school, raise more money through sponsors. We got Levi's on board. We got Palm Pilot on board. Right.

Jasmine Star 00:16:10  Palm pilot wow. It's like next up we got the rotary phone throwback.

Ben Nemtin 00:16:13  I know, that's right. Okay okay. This is huge though.

Jasmine Star 00:16:16  I mean Palm Pilot at this time was huge.

Ben Nemtin 00:16:19  So we so as.

Ben Nemtin 00:16:20  Teenagers basically like 2019 year olds without any promise of value, we were able to get 250,000 from Levi's, 150,000 from palm, in-kind PR from Levi's, phones from palm. We bought an old purple bus. We got a crew from LA to follow us next summer. We do two months on the road. Bigger list items help more people come down to the States and we're still filming this documentary. We decide after we realize how expensive post-production is, then we've run out of money that we want to go after number 53 on the list, which is make a TV show. So we take this footage we've been filming.

Jasmine Star 00:17:02  So wait, you guys started the documentary but actually didn't use that.

Jasmine Star 00:17:06  We're going to go back to school and do the documentary, but then all of a sudden, all of like the goodwill and the buzz, you just continue filming for the documentary, not having produced it. This is like a typical like, tech startup company. We're going to fundraise and then we have our cash runway, and then we realize we need to like, innovate and pivot. Frickin phenomenal.

Ben Nemtin 00:17:23  And this was like another big down, big, big, big B because we were so excited. We actually got offered a show in Canada on for MTV Canada. But they want to own it. They want to own the IP. They could recast us. Oh, so we're like, well, we're just gonna keep doing this on our own. So we turned down the show. Everyone's like, you guys are stupid. You just turn down and show. We're like, we're going to keep doing this on our own. We don't. We're going to make this doc. We come back from this tour, we spend all our money, we don't have enough money to finish the doc, and we realize we screwed up.

Ben Nemtin 00:17:53  We just turned down our own show. We don't have enough money to finish this documentary. We've blown it. We haven't paid ourselves a dime. We put all the money to the crew so they could film this. And now we have all this footage. No one's ever going to see it. We've turned out in our own show. We blew a huge opportunity. I'm gonna start working at a bar. I don't even know how to bartend. So this is a big, big like we we hit a wall. And long story longer true, a serendipitous moment. I meet someone that knows someone in LA. I fly down on a buddy pass that someone gives me, which is a free flight. I start meeting with random people And I start to realize, I think there's something here for a show. And over a year and a half, dozens of trips to L.A. driving back and forth.

Jasmine Star 00:18:37  Are you bartending during this year and a half in Canada?

Ben Nemtin 00:18:39  Yeah. Okay.

Ben Nemtin 00:18:41  We end up partnering with a production company.

Ben Nemtin 00:18:44  We sell the show to MTV as executive producers so we can maintain control and keep the IP. And all of a sudden, the four of us drive our big purple bus down to L.A. to produce our first show with no experience making TV. Going from a four man crew to a 30 person crew. And now we're trying to make this show. And so that's the the journey that brought us to number 53, which is which is make a TV show. And so that's how the documentary.

Ben Nemtin 00:19:10  Morphed into the show.

Jasmine Star 00:19:12  Of the four of y'all. Were you the most kind of like, business savvy? Were you.

Ben Nemtin 00:19:15  The I would.

Ben Nemtin 00:19:16  Say I was my role was like the producer. Like I was the one that was out kind of trying to make all these things happen and connect the dots. Okay. Duncan had a great business head, and then Johnny was like the heart and Dave was the people person. So we all played this role that really, you know, if you think about it, as a business.

Ben Nemtin 00:19:34  Co-founders.

Ben Nemtin 00:19:35  It really worked. And so.

Jasmine Star 00:19:38  Okay, so then you guys get the show and for all intents and purposes, you happily scratch off number three and you're expecting the ecstasy of saying another one off the list, guys. And then you get into it and you're like, well, now we're in the bucket. It wasn't a bucket list. Now we're.

Ben Nemtin 00:19:52  Here. So yeah, so.

Ben Nemtin 00:19:52  So we do the show and actually the show is amazing. And and then it's finishes and that's when we start a production company because we're like well let's make more shows. And that's when I realized.

Ben Nemtin 00:20:04  Got.

Ben Nemtin 00:20:04  It. The business of production was not something that I loved. And I started to feel this.

Ben Nemtin 00:20:10  And so then.

Jasmine Star 00:20:10  Did you go through that same like kind of five step processes to surround yourself by people?

Ben Nemtin 00:20:15  Yeah, I started talking about it. I had the support system and I knew that I think I need a change. Like I think there's something in my life like my body is telling me that something's not right.

Ben Nemtin 00:20:28  That's what the anxiety is. That's what this feeling of depression is. So I need to really do a gut check and figure out am I on my right path?

Ben Nemtin 00:20:39  How do you.

Jasmine Star 00:20:39  Discover your next right path?

Ben Nemtin 00:20:41  So I had done a Ted talk a few years before, and this is something that I didn't want to do because I was afraid of doing it. I didn't want to have this talk on the internet forever. And but I knew that was why I should do it, because it scared me. And so I did it.

Jasmine Star 00:20:55  Okay, pause. I'm a storyteller and I'm looking at the chronology here. So you do the Ted talk. Is this after those feelings of anxiety, where the anxiety is an indication that you're not in alignment and then you do the Ted talk?

Ben Nemtin 00:21:06  This is about the same time, you know, so we did a show in the book and, you know, we got I got invited to do a Ted talk. And at that time we're doing the production company.

Ben Nemtin 00:21:15  So and I love that experience. And so someone saw the Ted talk and they invited me to speak at their conference, and from there more people invited me to speak, and all of a sudden I was being invited to speak at all these conferences. And I thought, as I was feeling this lull and really like hitting this wall with the production company, I thought, listen, I know this is not for me. Why don't I just invest in this speaking a little bit because it's it's working. It'll be this period between my next thing that I'll focus on speaking. But as I started to invest more in speaking, it just it took off. And so I went from speaking, you know, 30 times a year to 80, 100, 150. And so the last seven years have been a lot of speaking where I speak to, you know, 110, 150 organizations a year. What I've done is I've taken all of this learning and this, this journey and a lot of the things that we just spoke about.

Ben Nemtin 00:22:20  And I've realized that there's so many huge lessons that I've learned about life through this process, and a lot of it is around the importance of being your true self, and the importance of following those things in your life that light you up, right. The things that bring you a sense of purpose because that is the quickest way to growth. The quickest way to growth is through the pursuit of purpose, because you're seven times more likely to overcome a challenge. If you come back to why am I doing this instead of how? And I'm hoping people can rethink a bucket list to think about all categories of their life, not just travel and adventure like skydive and bungee jump, but relationships, creative goals, mental health goals, physical health goals. How do you want to give back? To create a map of all the things that bring you that sense of purpose, so that you don't forget about those things and they don't get buried by the day to day. Because as I told you, this poem written 175 years ago that talked about the same feeling that ultimately is the human condition that life gets in the way of these things.

Ben Nemtin 00:23:25  They get buried by the day to day. But the irony is, is that if we don't do those things, those are the regrets we have at the end of our life, because 76% of people on their deathbed, their biggest regret, their biggest regret in their entire life is I wish I would have lived for me. So the biggest problem we have as human beings is we're not living for us, we're living for other people, or we're living the life that is expected of us, right? The life that we think we should live, which is the life I was living in high school and in university when I was living the dream. But I wasn't living my dream because I was living the life I thought I should live. And that's why I was depressed in large part. Right. And the caveat here is, you know, depression is not a simple fix and there's no silver bullet. But I do think that this is just my experience in my life. Those moments of depression, a large contribution, a large contributor to those feelings have been this misalignment.

Ben Nemtin 00:24:21  And so this idea that, okay, these regrets, we have things like telling people how you really feel. Right. I wish I would have lived for me, I wish I wouldn't work so hard. These are some of the top five regrets, but we're not thinking about these things in our day to day because there's no deadlines for these goals and there's deadlines for everything else in life. And so we continually push these important things. Relationships I wish I would have stayed in contact with friends is a top regret of the dying. So we think we have all this time. And then something happens, like a family member has a stroke, or you have a near-death experience, or someone in your life gets cancer and you hear these stories all the time, like everything changed once this person passed away or once I got cancer. It's because you're faced with death and you're. you are reminded of your mortality. And that's why the question we ask people, and the question we asked ourselves 17 years ago is, what do you want to do before you die? Because death was the only thing that shook us enough to realize what was important.

Ben Nemtin 00:25:30  And we don't keep death close enough in our life. We don't internalize the fact that every second that goes by, we will never have back. And ultimately, there's this clock that is ticking that we can't see, that will expire. And you could look at that and say, that's depressing. I don't want to look at that. That's scary. And it is a little bit, but it's more liberating, right? Because it puts things in perspective and it shows you, if you look through that filter, what's important in your life. And that's how you need to live. And it's very difficult to live every day like that. And it doesn't mean that you quit your job and you just jump in an RV with your friends for ten years, crossing things off your list. But what it does mean, I believe, is that you need to take time to think about what those things are in your.

Ben Nemtin 00:26:18  Life.

Ben Nemtin 00:26:19  And write them down so they're not thoughts and they become real and talk about them.

Ben Nemtin 00:26:24  So you build accountability. You don't forget about them. You have people keeping you accountable, and you take action instead of waiting to feel inspired to take action. And you create action through movement by creating momentum and you move through the fear that should not stop you, which is the fear of what other people think. Or this fear of failure, which is the number one thing that stops people from achieving or going after their dreams, is the fear of failure or the fear of what other people think.

Jasmine Star 00:26:51  How about this I want to go in three different directions. You pick what you believe is guiding you to the thing we should talk about. Because I'm such a storyteller, people are looking that you had essentially built this really successful business with three other guys who were your friends. People like you really loved, appreciated. And so then you start being called to speak professionally. And so there's like a shift in that relationship. So what is the conversations that you're having with that? What is the exit plan for that in a business term? Also, I had heard you speak, I believe you called it like an action bias or something along those lines.

Jasmine Star 00:27:24  It's like, I think that people who are listening here, they see you and hear you take action towards something and action build action. But it's that first one. So like, what are advice frameworks for us moving to that and what are practical ways to keep death close. Yeah. So I mean.

Ben Nemtin 00:27:41  I know I'm gonna I'm gonna answer I'm.

Ben Nemtin 00:27:43  Gonna answer all of them. Okay. First we had this now company right with my three friends. And I think this is really important because from my experience, from seeing friends go through this, there's there's oftentimes a seven year cycle with with relationships, okay, romantic relationships with with businesses.

Jasmine Star 00:28:05  I feel like I pivot every 6 or 7 years or pivot not in a change direction, but like I have to add something because I'm in a place of stasis. So this is like science.

Ben Nemtin 00:28:13  I believe it is. And I'm going to say something that you can not quote me on, but I believe that every cell in your body, every seven years, every cell is completely new.

Ben Nemtin 00:28:22  That too. So.

Ben Nemtin 00:28:23  Right. So you're kind of a new person. Yes. So it makes sense that after seven years, if there's three people, everybody is a new person. Chances are that you're going to be going in different directions. And that's okay. That is just the way that humans are wired to grow, right? So they're not necessarily going to grow in the same direction. That's why relationship, not all relationships work. So what we did was we thankfully we encourage everyone to follow their own path. Right. So one person wanted to go back to school. He wanted to finish his masters and then his PhD. And we were like, okay, this is hard, but if that's what you want to do, that's the right thing to do. So he leapt into that and then there were three of us. And so we were open and honest about what we wanted. And ultimately I had that very tough conversation, which was like, guys, we made it. We're about to get investment, but I don't think I can do this.

Ben Nemtin 00:29:18  I'm not the right person to lead this production company. And guess what? One of the other guy said, I really want to do it. Perfect. You take it, we're out. We had to have hard conversations about what that looked like right on the back end. But we figured it out and I started to do this other thing again talk with them what feels right. And I think that and again, I've seen a lot of friends go through this with businesses. They start with friends that didn't. They weren't intending to be businesses. Right? They started something for fun. Yes, it hit and all of a sudden, five years later, it's this big business. And they didn't set it up properly to be a business, or they didn't communicate like you should when you're in a business partnership. And I look at business partnerships, just like romantic relationships, like when you're in a relationship with a partner, you know, if something's bugging you, you have to talk about it. Right? Like, this is just what we we've been brought up.

Ben Nemtin 00:30:14  You have to communicate well in a business relationship. Those small things that are bugging you. If you don't have the experience, you don't really talk about those things. You're like, you know what? Yeah, it's pissing me off, but whatever. I'll just kind of like, push it down and continue to charge forward. Well, those little things, over time, they add up. And seven years of those things, you're probably going to have an explosion. So you need to talk about those grievances proactively when you're in a business relationship. But also it's okay to recycle your career. And this is a great conversation I had with my uncle when I was like, I built this production company with my friends, and we've put so much time and energy and, and now it's it's working. And and if I leave, I'm giving all that up. He's like, no, you're not. You're taking what you learned. That's right. And you're pivoting and you're recycling your career. And everyone should recycle their career if they feel called to because you're taking what you learned and moving to this new thing.

Ben Nemtin 00:31:09  And that's what I did. I just pivoted. And so the takeaways are talk about the things that are bugging you proactively or how they're going to bite you down the road. Be honest about what you want and how you're changing. And that's okay. It's okay to leave a relationship. It's okay to end a chapter, right? It's okay to recycle your career. And and so that's what we were able to do after honestly. Now at that point it had been about ten years. Right. Okay. Your second question.

Ben Nemtin 00:31:44  Yeah action.

Ben Nemtin 00:31:45  Bias.

Ben Nemtin 00:31:45  So so we.

Jasmine Star 00:31:47  Get how do we take the first thing. Because I heard you speak before that action begets action. So how do we get to the place where it's like it seems like when I look at your career, it's like action, action, action. But that first one to action steps and it feels like you're pushing a boulder uphill.

Ben Nemtin 00:32:00  Well you are you have to think.

Ben Nemtin 00:32:01  About like what you are thinking.

Ben Nemtin 00:32:03  You think about. Yeah.

Ben Nemtin 00:32:04  It's like you think about I don't think you're pushing a boulder up a hill, but you're pushing a boulder. So like if you think about a boulder and to move it, it takes so much force.

Ben Nemtin 00:32:15  Just.

Ben Nemtin 00:32:15  To get it moving because you have to start the momentum. But once it starts to move, it's easier to push. You've got that momentum. So think about it that way. The first step is always hard, and mainly it's because of the fear. If fear is the biggest thing that stops us, fear of what other people think, fear, failure. You have to look at those two fears, the fear of what other people think. Well, the truth is, people just aren't really thinking about you as much as you think they are.

Ben Nemtin 00:32:38  Amen. Fear of.

Ben Nemtin 00:32:39  Failure. As long as you have your basic needs met. Right? And this is important. So you're not risking your safety or the safety or the well-being of your family. Shelter, food, well-being. If those are met, then this fear of failure, it could be ego driven.

Ben Nemtin 00:32:58  So you want to look at like, what is the risk, not the fear. What's at risk. And so if you can list out the risks versus the fears, you can start to think, really understand what this fear is coming from and it might not be warranted. You may just not want to look bad. You may just not want to fail. And failure is just a pivot to success. That's where you learn. That's where you grow. And so I like the analogy. So if you think about this either the bolder or you think about. So action begets more action because it's really like compounding interest. So if you think about investing a dollar a day into a compounding interest account over time, slowly it's going to grow. It's the same with action if you take small steps of action. And that's what people don't understand. It's like you don't need to take a huge leap. You just need to do the smallest, easiest thing so that you can start that momentum. And when you take those tiny, tiny, easy steps every day, they compound over time and eventually compounding action.

Ben Nemtin 00:34:05  It's compounding action. Eventually you'll look back and be like, wow, I've moved. Like I'm closer, or something will happen one day where you're in the right place at the right time. Opportunity knocks and it's because you've been taking the small action. And it's hard because it doesn't feel like you're moving. Sometimes it feels like you're going backwards, but you just need to know that this is part of the process. And anyone that you look up to, they did that. Anyone that you think is better than you, they're not. They just started moving and taking action and they didn't give up. And it takes a lot of work and takes a lot of time. But as I said in the beginning, it's the long game. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon. So now I know that anything I want is possible. I just have to make sure it aligns with my authentic self, what I really want, what I value, and I have to be prepared to do the work to get there.

Ben Nemtin 00:35:07  So action is the key. It's it's I just am creating this course called Powered by Purpose.

Jasmine Star 00:35:16  Is this so good? This is so good. Wait wait wait. Let's play a game. Yeah, I'm on the outside. Yeah. This is the first time I'm actually meeting. Yeah, and I want to play a game to see if I know the structure that is the current Ben Tipton business. That is the personal brand. And then you're going to tell me how close are off I am. Love it. So you leave the production company. Yeah. You do a Ted talk. Yep. You get invited to start speaking. Then you go from 20 to 30 to 150 speaking events a year. Being named, let us not forget top two most motivational speaker of like current history. Bravo! Job well done. So I've definitely done my homework, but I want to make sure that oh, by global gurus. I want to make sure that I stay the source.

Ben Nemtin 00:35:56  Okay, great. Cool.

Jasmine Star 00:35:56  So there's this. And then all of a sudden, now this is only from what I've seen in the industry. Yeah. So now we're in the business. This is the business that has been in the industry. The most successful speakers who are commanding the most are essentially trading hours for dollars. There are only so many events that you could take at a certain pay grade. Yeah. And after that, you have to have more events to make more money or you have to charge more. But when you're in the top 1% of the 1%, it kind of seems like there's this level of, okay, this is generally where most of the top big dogs play. And so when you start realizing that I'm trading hours for dollars and I want to build another revenue stream, and I don't want to wait to be picked to be the speaker, I must be in control of a destiny they don't want to create. And so if I understand it correctly, you are a New York Times bestseller. Bravo! So you create a book that is a line of revenue.

Jasmine Star 00:36:46  You create a journal, a powerful journal to people accomplishing goals. I have it here for the watching the video, the Bucket List Journal. Ben walked me through what this journal is, and it's crazy. I mean, as a journalist myself, I loved it. Like I loved it. It wasn't even a planned plug, but I was like, please, we have to talk about this. It was a very generous gift and it's really smart from a business perspective. So we have the book, we have the journal. There is now a course. Is the course going to be a live launch? Is it going to be evergreen like who here is. And so to me, I look at you, the personal brand, as the center part of a wheel in every arm of the wheel is pointing back to you, but it is also a revenue stream. And so when you look at what the course is going to do, where do you want people entering the flywheel? They see you on stage, they buy a journal, they buy the course.

Jasmine Star 00:37:35  Are you going after the same person in regards to target demographic? Explain to me the nitty gritty of the business.

Ben Nemtin 00:37:39  Yeah, totally.

Ben Nemtin 00:37:40  No, this is great because, you know, I'm in the thick of this right now. So it's there are things that I've been putting a lot of thought into because as you mentioned, and you're right, you know, there's only so many keynotes I can do, and I don't actually want to be doing 120 keynotes a year because that means I'm gone 200 days a year, and I have a partner, and I want to start to take that next step in our relationship. And I want to be home, and I want to be, you know, building relationships with friends and, and that type of thing. So but I love the act of speaking. That's the travel that is tough. And the speaking world, by the way, is a wild industry. I mean, it's like, you're right, there is this level where you get to the top and it's kind of this a bit of a ceiling.

Ben Nemtin 00:38:23  But, you know, actually there really is no ceiling with the fees you can command as a speaker because it's about the impact you make. So you don't actually need to be a household name to command the fees that household names command in speaking if you really move people. So that's what's cool about it, is that it's actually an agent for real change, because you're with people in the room and you can transform them. And so that's just, you know, I think a lot of people have a message and it's a great avenue to deliver that message. And there's a lot of places to speak. Right? There's associations, there's companies, there's private events. Right. I think we see these sort of motivational conferences, but that's like a 1% of the actual the opportunity. Right. So it is a very I didn't know about this business I got into seven years ago, you know, and, you know, you can command 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 K a talk. No problem as you start to move into making that type of impact.

Ben Nemtin 00:39:29  So with that being said, I don't want to travel that much. So what's next? Well, you're right, the journal was the first move because not only is that something that I think will be impactful for people in the room that I'm speaking to, because it takes the things I talk about and puts them into action. If my whole thesis around creating inspiration through action, I should create a tool that creates accountability for more action. So that's what the journal is. But also for people that can't see me speak, they have the tool to do that as well. So that's why I was trying to figure out, okay, how do I make a product that's half book, half journal because I need to educate people enough so they understand they're bought in and they trust this process and then actually have the tool to execute the process. So that has been really cool just to create something from nothing. And that's by the way, just because we're on the business side, we source that overseas. And from A to Z kind of own that whole process.

Ben Nemtin 00:40:23  So it's not like self-publishing where I do it with a partner, but like in Asia, found the factory, found the person to run that process, ship it on a container right boat to LA, and then distribute it through three PL here. And that's the way to do it for me, because most of my sales are through the speaking engagements to 500 people, a thousand people.

Jasmine Star 00:40:46  So it's part of your speaking fee. They'll also do a book by or journal by.

Ben Nemtin 00:40:49  It's not essential, but a lot of times because it's that value and they'll they'll get it.

Ben Nemtin 00:40:53  So the marketing.

Jasmine Star 00:40:54  Halo from that is like people leave the conference or leave the event and they can be putting it on social or they take it home to their families, or maybe they experiences like amazing things and they give it to a friend. That's exactly.

Ben Nemtin 00:41:04  So good.

Ben Nemtin 00:41:05  People will get it for their families, you know? Or in the talk, I'll give people the opportunity to learn about it and then they can get it after if they don't have it.

Ben Nemtin 00:41:14  So that's great. But still I'm still trading hours for dollars. And so yes.

Jasmine Star 00:41:19  But now if they do the book buy and you're speaking fee, you're making more per hour. Exactly. So okay. Are you direct to consumer or are you selling them also like on Amazon.

Ben Nemtin 00:41:28  On Amazon.

Ben Nemtin 00:41:28  Okay. Yeah.

Jasmine Star 00:41:29  Do you prefer DTC. Do you want people going to your site and buying the journal?

Ben Nemtin 00:41:33  It's funny. So I actually prefer Amazon because it's easier and I don't actually take too much of a cut. So I do make less. Yes, but I sell.

Ben Nemtin 00:41:44  More, right.

Ben Nemtin 00:41:45  You know what I mean? So right. Because it's one click and prime. The volume is so much higher and it outweighs the the hit I take by giving that percentage to Amazon. So now I just push everyone to Amazon.

Ben Nemtin 00:42:00  Yeah.

Jasmine Star 00:42:01  Can we brainstorm about why I want you to be DDC specifically when it comes to the course? Because in all of.

Ben Nemtin 00:42:06  The course, yes. Yeah.

Jasmine Star 00:42:08  But like just think about this.

Jasmine Star 00:42:09  Like your LTV, the lifetime value of a follower, somebody who buys from you can increase tenfold. So let's just say you're on a stage and instead of saying people QR code to Amazon or say you find it on Amazon, you put a QR code, they scan it, they go to your shop. Now what you have is all the customer data and information. So somebody who's spending how much is the journal? More or.

Ben Nemtin 00:42:29  Less 35.

Jasmine Star 00:42:29  $35. And then on a cart bump up, you're like, would you like to add the book? And if you buy it in the next 15 minutes, it's 50% off. You can bundle where they're not doing the upsell bundles on Amazon, but specifically you get them into email communication, text messages, communication. You can create a campaign on social to be like, are you journaling? How's it going? Do you want to take this one step further? And so the ascension model of your product line would likely be journal, book or inverse. Then you have a funnel to upsell them into the course.

Jasmine Star 00:43:00  So somebody buying a $35 journal could essentially turn into how much is the course TBD.

Ben Nemtin 00:43:05  But we'll say we'll.

Jasmine Star 00:43:06  Say let's just say, let's just say, for math sake, $1,000. We're taking a $35 customer and turning them into an $1,100 customer. And that doesn't exist on Amazon.

Ben Nemtin 00:43:14  It's true. This is.

Jasmine Star 00:43:15  Unsolicited advice, but this is.

Ben Nemtin 00:43:17  What we do. This is what we do. Yeah. So I do have.

Ben Nemtin 00:43:19  Good because what I do is I do a text opt in in the keynote and then that pushes to email to get the resources. So I do have all their information, but it's true. I can't upsell through Amazon, I can't bundle. So when I only had one product. And by the.

Ben Nemtin 00:43:36  Way.

Ben Nemtin 00:43:37  My my book is owned by a publisher, so it actually doesn't make sense to do to bundle that because it's going to go through them anyways. But the course is another story. And through the course the journal comes with the course. So but late into the course, the other thing that has been a constant kind of pain point is that, like I show my speaking schedule, I'm like, I'm in Dallas, I'm in Atlanta, I'm in New York, I'm in Orlando.

Ben Nemtin 00:44:04  And I was like, oh, can I come in Orlando? Can I come in? It's like, sir, you can't because it's a private candidate. No one can come to my talks because they're all corporate private events. So when I was thinking about the course, I was like, okay, what if I include my keynote in this course? And so I built the course to one of the first videos you watch is like a custom 60 minute virtual keynote that energizes people around this idea. Just like my in-person keynote does, it starts to educate them on these steps, just like my in-person keynote. And it removes all these, you know, these unconscious bias of people have the mindset. Okay. But then once you watch that, then you start to go through and take the action and build accountability and move through the fear and do the work. And there's a community that starts to create accountability. So every time you take action, you do it in the community and you start to feel that inspiration by taking action.

Ben Nemtin 00:45:06  But then you have that group of people that are all going down this road at the same time, because you start at the same time and you've identified the most important goal in your life and you're moving towards it, and then you're also taking action every day right towards that goal. But you're taking action every day towards a better mindset through gratitude, appreciation and these practices.

Ben Nemtin 00:45:27  So okay.

Jasmine Star 00:45:29  So whenever I look at an offer that is a course, I'm looking at two things. I'm looking at the transformation. And I'm looking at the problem. If I understood it correctly, the transformation when somebody finishes the course is they have accomplished a goal. The pain point is, they don't know how, or they don't have accountability or fear of.

Ben Nemtin 00:45:45  Stopping them, or they don't.

Ben Nemtin 00:45:46  Know what the goal is. They just know they meant they're meant for more. And that's why this framework.

Ben Nemtin 00:45:50  Of got.

Ben Nemtin 00:45:51  It of of breaking down your goals in these different categories. Right. And starting to think about these five regrets of the dying, which is from Bronny.

Ben Nemtin 00:46:01  Where's book the top five regrets the dying and looking at, okay, how do I reverse engineer my life so I don't die like most people with these regrets, which is heartbreaking. And you start to sort of tease out what are things in my life that would contribute to me having this regret, and how can I take action today to not have that regret?

Ben Nemtin 00:46:22  So good.

Ben Nemtin 00:46:23  So I think a lot of people feel this, just this nagging like, are I? There's something more for me. Like, I don't know what it is, but I'm just not doing it. I'm not fulfilling the full potential that I have And I just don't even know what it is. And you just need to start to take action to learn what that thing is. Because it's not an intellectual game. It's a feeling. It's an energy, which is what I was saying before. You need to just your list is like a testing ground. You're starting to try things, to collect data, to figure out what gives you energy.

Ben Nemtin 00:47:02  And if it gives you energy, you do more of that and that's the road you go down. And that's if you step back. That's what people have done to build businesses out of passion is they just started doing something because they loved it, and it just gave them energy and they and they loved it more. And then all of a sudden, it started to lead them down this path that they would never have expected. That led them to a business. Or, by the way, it doesn't need to be your business. Doesn't you know, there's drawbacks, many drawbacks to turning your passion into your business. Right? And we can talk about those, but you just need to carve out time to do that thing that energizes you to be who you are. So you can show up at work so you can show up as a husband, as a daughter, as a mother, as a friend, and ultimately unlock the gifts that only you have. And there's this great quote from Les Brown, who's a famous speaker and thought leader, who says, it's something like this, but imagine you're on your deathbed, okay, you're in your last week of life, and on your deathbed, all these ghosts start to come by your side of your bed.

Ben Nemtin 00:48:17  And it's the ghosts of the dreams you never acted on, or the ideas you never followed through on, or those gifts that that you have that you didn't sort of actualize. All these things that you'd always wanted to do, but you never did. Those ghosts come to your side of your bed, and they say, we came to you when you were alive. And only you had the power to bring us to life, and you didn't. And now we come to die with you forever. That is how most people die. And that is why 76% of the population, their biggest regret is I wish I would have lived for me because what those ghosts are are your true self and you regret not living that true expression and unlocking those gifts that you have that only you have. And I believe you have a responsibility, and we all have a responsibility to act on those, because we are the only ones that possess them. And your purpose is to give those gifts away. And so you don't need to make money off of it.

Ben Nemtin 00:49:32  You don't need to be afraid of To failing. Because if you fail. That's okay. At least you tried. And you don't have to end your life regretting not trying. And you can say on your deathbed, I gave it my all and it didn't work out the way I wanted or the way I thought, but I learned something about myself. And now I know that at least I tried. And that's all I'm saying, is that you need to take action just to know if anything for your future self. It's not about you. It's not about the people around you. It's about your future self so that you don't have to be in that position. That would be such a heartbreaking moment to realize too late that you fucked up. And I think that it's not as hard as you think to do that. You just need to take that easy step. You just need to enroll people in your life so they support you. Be around people that want you to win and that can keep you accountable.

Ben Nemtin 00:50:37  Talk about it so that people can help you and know that it's a long game.

Ben Nemtin 00:50:43  Oh.

Jasmine Star 00:50:44  You say that again. So if I follow what I know to be true is that our impact is somewhat correlative to the value that we bring to somebody, and it doesn't have to be monetary value. It's just the value that we bring to somebody. Our worth is not determined by our value, but the relationship we build, the legacy that we have. And so when I see your business and when other people who are watching and listening look at the business that is personal brand, that is speaking, that is product, I can't help but think, oh my God, Ben, you provide so much value for people. How do we then extend the value? And my brain always, for better or for worse, I'm the person that goes to a restaurant. I count the tables, I count the servers. What's the overhead like? I look at planes helpful. Is this plane like, what is the profitability here? It's like I'm hard wired for business.

Jasmine Star 00:51:32  And so when I hear that there is a demand. I want to see you in Dallas. I want to see you in Atlanta. And you're like, I'm so sorry. It's a private event. I do think that when you have this community and they're all about each other, that the community becomes around the mission. That is the goal less about Ben, but they become very emboldened because you became their leader. And what they want to do is take their online experience into an offline experience. I do think there's an opportunity, not even for you, but for anybody who's watching is you always think of, how can we create layers in more value to more people? Because people will actually pay for value. So if they go through the journal, perhaps the book, they get in to the course, they are a part of the community, they're staying in goals. And then there is a conference that you would be able to broker or negotiate tickets at a discounted rate for your community, but you can bring in 30, 50, 500 people to that event.

Jasmine Star 00:52:19  You then become the broker that is offline, online, the LTV of that customer, because you're getting a percentage of that ticket sale extends from now what we're talking about 1100. Well, now it's like 1600. Now, is there a possibility for you to get your favorite? And this is a stuff you've already done. Get Levi's, get the version of Palm Pilot that is today. Have them host your events. Bring your people together. I think that the business that is you is so wildly untapped, and I'm begging you, spread the value. And this is not just for you. It's for people who are listening, who are building personal brands. Be the connector. Create the value. Having said.

Ben Nemtin 00:52:51  That.

Jasmine Star 00:52:52  We started the conversation around your dad and his very recent stroke. And when I talked and I heard and I was studying about the relationship that you have with your parents, but there's also this story. And forgive me if I get the details wrong, but they took you to Greece and your parents were musicians, and you're a child while they're playing music.

Jasmine Star 00:53:11  What impact does this have on you? And when you see the life that your dad has lived and so thankful that he's pushing through? But if Friday was that last moment, what is he looking at? What are you thinking of in terms of how you were raised?

Ben Nemtin 00:53:27  I'm thinking, you know, I wish I would have taken that trip to New Orleans with him that we had to push because of Covid. One of his dreams is to go to New Orleans because he's a musician and see the music and, you know, experience it. And I for 70th birthdays, you know, gave him a sort of surprise him with this trip with my friend and his dad. We were all going to go together and just before Covid and obviously we had to push and and as things opened up, we had another date on the books and it was just like a little too much travel and it didn't work out. And, and I thought, I, I haven't done that trip with him. That was just him and I, and I still plan to do that trip.

Ben Nemtin 00:54:21  But that was my one of my thoughts was, oh no. Like I, I hope I get to do that trip with him and I. In hindsight, I probably could have made it happen. You know, I probably could have just made it happen. And my other thought was that he's lived such a full life. He's probably lived more life than most people have lived in two lifetimes. Like, he just is so much love around him. And he's he's brought so many people together through music and laughter. And so he definitely has lived a full life. But I, you know, that that trip, I think, is representative of wanting to spend more quality time with him. And so those are the places where I was going.

Jasmine Star 00:55:11  Thank you for that. Like real life example, because I think that it's easy to look at somebody and be like, you're on a pedestal. You've always made the right decisions. You always say yes to the proverbial trip to New Orleans. And so thank you for sharing this, because I think it's really cool that when we do see that trip.

Jasmine Star 00:55:25  If you decide to share it with your dad far or close by, whatever he is able to do that we get to celebrate you being the embodiment of the example of living a very full life. Where do people go to connect with you by the time the show airs? Congratulations! Your course will be out into the ether. Blessing and changing lives. Where do they go for all of this?

Ben Nemtin 00:55:46  Instagram is the best place. That's just where I'm most active and that's the platform I liked the most. So that's a great spot. And LinkedIn is also a place where I do more long form content.

Jasmine Star 00:56:00  So for those of you who are interested, Ben Nympton on Instagram. Yeah, and let's give a shout out to your website, because if people would like and this is where I'm gonna push hard, people be so annoyed with me. I know by the journal on his website, so that the advice that I'm sharing with him can follow you on the interwebs. You can go through the course and the book, and perhaps one day be able to meet Ben at the event that he is hosting that's fully sponsored by the fanciest mansions brands out there around people who want to change their life.

Jasmine Star 00:56:29  Ben, thank you for blessing us being here at the Jasmine Star Show, I appreciate you.

Ben Nemtin 00:56:33  Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm so excited to have people experience, you know, this course because the keynote is something that I believe in so much and I know that it works. And so to give people the opportunity to experience that and then also supplement that with that action and the community. That's right. And my goal is that the community becomes that's actually the X factor, where it's the supportive place where you feel buoyed to go after those things in your life that you love. And if you fail, it's okay because you're in this space where you're going to continue to be pushed forward. And it's called the one step formula because of that compounding action where it's it's like you can't lose if you.

Ben Nemtin 00:57:20  Take.

Ben Nemtin 00:57:21  That consistent action every day, you can't. The hard part is sticking with it. And so that's why the accountability is key. And and creating that flywheel so that you just stay in movement.

Ben Nemtin 00:57:37  And if you do that you're going to win okay.

Jasmine Star 00:57:38  So where do they go to find it or what's your website Ben kempton.com.

Ben Nemtin 00:57:42  That's beautiful.

Jasmine Star 00:57:43  I'm gonna do a brief recap around the lessons that I've learned in the frameworks. And that was number one to surround yourself with inspiring people, and number two, to talk to those inspiring people and stay accountable to maintain and take acts of courage or creativity, to have a list of action items and to be really focused on a result. How do you know that you've won and it's not winning compared to anybody else? It's winning on what your terms are and how you want to live your life and be lightened up by it. And lastly, to always remember to keep death close. May we not have the ghost by our bed whispering what could have been, but may they look at us, into us on into the next. Thank you for watching and listening to the Jasmine Star Show.